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[Proposal] Adjust Clone costs - scaling skewed against high SP chars

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darius mclever	Posted - 2010.03.21 17:05:00 - [61] Originally by: adriaans Originally by: Anna Lifera not supported. if the older chars were saved that much extra isk to get back into battle asap, they forget the combat sp advantage they have over newer players, who r much less effective and wouldn't be able to bounce back as often as the older chars because they don't make as much isk, let alone have enough to stack a ton of backup ships in their hangar. the older chars bouncing back that much more often would eventually kill off the newer players that much more often because of their higher sp and combat effectiveness. and it's already this way because keep in mind, u can still have your ship blown up--just don't stay around and get podded. simple as that. last i checked, if you're in a bubble.. you can't leave You dont make more isk by having 100 mill SP than having 20 mill sp either, nor are you better in combat, you are ONLY more versatile you got 100m SP, that means you played mostlikely played much longer (unless you bought the toon) and player experience is worth much more than any SP. and if you played that long and still havent sorted out a stable source of income (and there are plenty), sorry but then you have to take the risk of undocking without an updated clone or you are out for the night. "dont fly what you cant afford to loose"
Anna Lifera Gallente Imperial Legion of Amarr	Posted - 2010.03.21 17:19:00 - [62] Originally by: adriaans last i checked, if you're in a bubble.. you can't leave You dont make more isk by having 100 mill SP than having 20 mill sp either, nor are you better in combat, you are ONLY more versatile gee...if only we could take the risk out of 0.0 warfare for u...oh wait, then we'd have to take out the rewards too to balance it. go back to low sec or even high sec if u can't handle a loss.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.03.21 19:01:00 - [63] Originally by: Anna Lifera Originally by: adriaans last i checked, if you're in a bubble.. you can't leave You dont make more isk by having 100 mill SP than having 20 mill sp either, nor are you better in combat, you are ONLY more versatile gee...if only we could take the risk out of 0.0 warfare for u...oh wait, then we'd have to take out the rewards too to balance it. go back to low sec or even high sec if u can't handle a loss. and guess where i and most others end up pvp'ing regulary.. oh thats right, its low sec... while people whine that there is no pvp in 0.0 Not only that, but as clones dont need replacing after pretty much every ship loss due to bubbles, one also flies more expensive stuff in low-sec rather than 0.0. And to the poster before: After a certain skillpoint (around 20m) YOU DONT MAKE ANY MORE ISK/HOUR, yet you end up paying much much much more to replace losses IN 0.0. If i am to spend say 3b during a month in pvp in 0.0, i'd pretty much guarantee you that 1bill of that would be buying new clones not counting implants, while if i was 20m sp's i'd maybe spend 200 mill for new clones if even that FOR EXACTLY THE SAME PERFORMANCE. ephemeron: you got way to much isk and far to little clue on how to fit pvp ships going by you're fittings and BALANCING clone costs for older players is hardly going to make ''risk free pvp'' as you keep shouting out. If clones costing 30 mill gets lowered to 20 mill to have a balance just what is the apparent HUGE issue you seem to have with it? It's not like mauraders are suddenly costing 5 mill isk... -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
Pelorn	Posted - 2010.03.22 03:22:00 - [64]
Axemaster	Posted - 2010.03.22 05:43:00 - [65] I support this 100%
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.03.22 09:24:00 - [66] Originally by: adriaans Originally by: Anna Lifera Originally by: adriaans last i checked, if you're in a bubble.. you can't leave You dont make more isk by having 100 mill SP than having 20 mill sp either, nor are you better in combat, you are ONLY more versatile gee...if only we could take the risk out of 0.0 warfare for u...oh wait, then we'd have to take out the rewards too to balance it. go back to low sec or even high sec if u can't handle a loss. and guess where i and most others end up pvp'ing regulary.. oh thats right, its low sec... while people whine that there is no pvp in 0.0 Not only that, but as clones dont need replacing after pretty much every ship loss due to bubbles, one also flies more expensive stuff in low-sec rather than 0.0. And to the poster before: After a certain skillpoint (around 20m) YOU DONT MAKE ANY MORE ISK/HOUR, yet you end up paying much much much more to replace losses IN 0.0. If i am to spend say 3b during a month in pvp in 0.0, i'd pretty much guarantee you that 1bill of that would be buying new clones not counting implants, while if i was 20m sp's i'd maybe spend 200 mill for new clones if even that FOR EXACTLY THE SAME PERFORMANCE. ephemeron: you got way to much isk and far to little clue on how to fit pvp ships going by you're fittings and BALANCING clone costs for older players is hardly going to make ''risk free pvp'' as you keep shouting out. If clones costing 30 mill gets lowered to 20 mill to have a balance just what is the apparent HUGE issue you seem to have with it? It's not like mauraders are suddenly costing 5 mill isk... You're losing 100M a day? Dude. Take an Agony class or something.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.03.22 16:19:00 - [67] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: adriaans Originally by: Anna Lifera Originally by: adriaans last i checked, if you're in a bubble.. you can't leave You dont make more isk by having 100 mill SP than having 20 mill sp either, nor are you better in combat, you are ONLY more versatile gee...if only we could take the risk out of 0.0 warfare for u...oh wait, then we'd have to take out the rewards too to balance it. go back to low sec or even high sec if u can't handle a loss. and guess where i and most others end up pvp'ing regulary.. oh thats right, its low sec... while people whine that there is no pvp in 0.0 Not only that, but as clones dont need replacing after pretty much every ship loss due to bubbles, one also flies more expensive stuff in low-sec rather than 0.0. And to the poster before: After a certain skillpoint (around 20m) YOU DONT MAKE ANY MORE ISK/HOUR, yet you end up paying much much much more to replace losses IN 0.0. If i am to spend say 3b during a month in pvp in 0.0, i'd pretty much guarantee you that 1bill of that would be buying new clones not counting implants, while if i was 20m sp's i'd maybe spend 200 mill for new clones if even that FOR EXACTLY THE SAME PERFORMANCE. ephemeron: you got way to much isk and far to little clue on how to fit pvp ships going by you're fittings and BALANCING clone costs for older players is hardly going to make ''risk free pvp'' as you keep shouting out. If clones costing 30 mill gets lowered to 20 mill to have a balance just what is the apparent HUGE issue you seem to have with it? It's not like mauraders are suddenly costing 5 mill isk... You're losing 100M a day? Dude. Take an Agony class or something. It's called reckless rampages Only way to get wicked fraps footage for vids -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.03.22 17:35:00 - [68] Uh, well if you're deliberately choosing reckless pvP then you have to deal with the consequences.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.03.22 19:31:00 - [69] Originally by: Malcanis Uh, well if you're deliberately choosing reckless pvP then you have to deal with the consequences. coward pvp is as fun as doing missions or mining... And a t2 fit rigged BS = 100 mill... Heck sometimes i use more than 100m/day in combat boosters... and reckless pvp has nothing to do with this topic. (which is mostly do in low-sec anyway due to said clone costs) -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.03.22 21:14:00 - [70] Originally by: adriaans coward pvp is as fun as doing missions or mining... And a t2 fit rigged BS = 100 mill... Heck sometimes i use more than 100m/day in combat boosters... and reckless pvp has nothing to do with this topic. (which is mostly do in low-sec anyway due to said clone costs) Sorry but you you are full of ***. I use combat boosters all the time, they cost 3-5 mil a pop. In a day's worth of pvp you may use 2-3 tops. That's 15 mil tops. There's no way you can reasonably* spend 100 mil a day on boosters - there are unreasonable ways tho, such as using multiple Improved boosters. But, if that were the case, then clone costs would have been no concern at all. I pvp in 0.0 all the time, and on some days I lose 2 battleships a day, and even so, more than 50% of the time the pod gets away. Pod losses are less common than ship losses, in both low sec and 0.0 To say you choose to pvp in low sec simply because of clone costs is very dishonest. Clone cost may be part of that decision, but only a small part. Anyway, PvP is exciting precisely because losing stuff hurts people. The cheaper PvP becomes, the less different it is from counter strike in space, the less excitement to be had.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.03.22 22:01:00 - [71] Edited by: adriaans on 22/03/2010 22:03:39 Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: adriaans coward pvp is as fun as doing missions or mining... And a t2 fit rigged BS = 100 mill... Heck sometimes i use more than 100m/day in combat boosters... and reckless pvp has nothing to do with this topic. (which is mostly do in low-sec anyway due to said clone costs) Sorry but you you are full of ***. I use combat boosters all the time, they cost 3-5 mil a pop. In a day's worth of pvp you may use 2-3 tops. That's 15 mil tops. There's no way you can reasonably* spend 100 mil a day on boosters - there are unreasonable ways tho, such as using multiple Improved boosters. But, if that were the case, then clone costs would have been no concern at all. I pvp in 0.0 all the time, and on some days I lose 2 battleships a day, and even so, more than 50% of the time the pod gets away. Pod losses are less common than ship losses, in both low sec and 0.0 To say you choose to pvp in low sec simply because of clone costs is very dishonest. Clone cost may be part of that decision, but only a small part. Anyway, PvP is exciting precisely because losing stuff hurts people. The cheaper PvP becomes, the less different it is from counter strike in space, the less excitement to be had. Ohh the pod usually gets away when the ship dies.. the problem then is the 25-50 jumps back to high sec thats usually bubbled. and, 4 strong boosters = 100 mill. on a 10+ hour pvp day that's not too unreasonable, especially if including the alt's consumption. Also note the ''sometimes'' part as i quite obviously did not say per day. and as an example of balancing that I'm quite sure won't make this anything closer to ''counter strike in space'', 30 mill to 20-22 mill to balance the graph instead of an exponential growth. THAT's what this topic is about. -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.03.22 23:23:00 - [72] How can you justify spending 100 mil on several Strong boosters, where 10 mil worth of Standard boosters does almost same job.. and at same time be critical of 20 mil clone costs? If you like to spend big of the smallest of advantages, then don't pretend to care for spending a little extra on high sp char clone. Those 71+ mil SP are just the extra edge you willingly buy. Just take comfort knowing that everybody plays by the same rules, when you kill them, they hurt too. Just try to kill them more often than they do you and then it's all good.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.03.22 23:49:00 - [73] Originally by: Ephemeron How can you justify spending 100 mil on several Strong boosters, where 10 mil worth of Standard boosters does almost same job.. and at same time be critical of 20 mil clone costs? If you like to spend big of the smallest of advantages, then don't pretend to care for spending a little extra on high sp char clone. Those 71+ mil SP are just the extra edge you willingly buy. Just take comfort knowing that everybody plays by the same rules, when you kill them, they hurt too. Just try to kill them more often than they do you and then it's all good. The difference is quite huge on some ships actually (up to a few hundred points of eft tank compared to standard), so for the cost of strong booster you get the effect of fitting faction/cheap deadspace mods, the boosters pay for themselves so to speak. On most common ships/setups i agree it's not though. Doesn't seem like this will change though, so doubt you have anything to worry about ;) -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
Anna Lifera Gallente Imperial Legion of Amarr	Posted - 2010.03.22 23:58:00 - [74] Originally by: adriaans and guess where i and most others end up pvp'ing regulary.. oh thats right, its low sec... while people whine that there is no pvp in 0.0 idk about that...after all, alliances do need to defend their assets. did u ever try stepping into their territory? oh wait, u mean pvp u can handle. well in that case, there probably isn't any doable pvp in 0.0 because news flash: it's not because of clone costs--it's because solo pvp is dead, in 0.0 and low sec. unless u don't mind spending hours roaming for a rookie ship... deal with it.
Matting NQX Innovations	Posted - 2010.03.23 00:03:00 - [75] Originally by: Ephemeron How can you justify spending 100 mil on several Strong boosters, where 10 mil worth of Standard boosters does almost same job.. and at same time be critical of 20 mil clone costs? Maybe because he isn't blinded by his isk and can realise there is an imbalance with how the high end clones increase in costs. TBH what you say just confirms to me that you still don't understand this topic.
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.03.23 00:34:00 - [76] I understand this topic very well. People want to reduce costs of PvP for high level chars. That's the bottom line. I simply happen to believe in the idea that the advantage of having high sp in combat should come at a price. And 20 mil a pop sounds very reasonable. Even 40 mil per clone is still not too bad. Every high level advantage in this game costs lots of isk - the difference between Strong and Standard booster - like the difference between 50 and 80 mil sp char. Nobody forces you to use those, it's your choice.
Anna Lifera Gallente Imperial Legion of Amarr	Posted - 2010.03.23 00:50:00 - [77] Originally by: Matting It seems theres a lot of people who really don't like solo PVP or want it to be dead. People do like playing the game differently and some don't like being forced in to blobs which make risk lower and like being more risky (solo). The costs for doing this are much higher in general and we should encourage risky behavior so everyone gets more pvp. There is a balance of course and I don't think anyone here wants WOW in space. what balance is there with ppl r starving for killmails when more potential pvpers can't pvp 'cause they can't synchronize their changing schedules to match 5+ other ppl, assuming they're willing and able to find and catch even 1 target before they have to retire for tomorrow, assuming they don't get blobbed? both sides end up losing here, whether it's dying for nothing, wasting hours of play time, or both. where's the balance when the biggest fleet always steamrolls a smaller fleet 100% of the time, setting in stone that if u have the bigger fleet, u automatically win? where's the balance in risk vs reward in the largest and probably the most important facet in this game?
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.03.23 01:42:00 - [78] Originally by: Ephemeron I understand this topic very well. People want to reduce costs of PvP for high level chars. That's the bottom line. I simply happen to believe in the idea that the advantage of having high sp in combat should come at a price. And 20 mil a pop sounds very reasonable. Even 40 mil per clone is still not too bad. Every high level advantage in this game costs lots of isk - the difference between Strong and Standard booster - like the difference between 50 and 80 mil sp char. Nobody forces you to use those, it's your choice. The rate of increase for combat advantage and clone cost is in no way complimentary of each other. If it was, I would run around mauling low SP ppl in my solopwnmobile bs. It should cost. We agree there. In my GD thread I've tried to relay logical arguments on what I think would be balanced. Others suggest their own. What they are suggesting you don't understand is the divide between ship,fit,implant,booster,whatever costs that have a clear and distinct combat advantage and the completely different (see my first 2 sentences here) that simply HAVING SP somehow gains you a near exponential combat advantage. I do not understand your adamant hatred towards the topic. We agree almost completely across the board but you have this idea that pursing balance (the name of the game in development) is evil and whining. Some people just lash out at change I suppose? "A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game."
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.03.23 02:18:00 - [79] Edited by: adriaans on 23/03/2010 02:19:49 Originally by: Anna Lifera Originally by: adriaans and guess where i and most others end up pvp'ing regulary.. oh thats right, its low sec... while people whine that there is no pvp in 0.0 idk about that...after all, alliances do need to defend their assets. did u ever try stepping into their territory? oh wait, u mean pvp u can handle. well in that case, there probably isn't any doable pvp in 0.0 because news flash: it's not because of clone costs--it's because solo pvp is dead, in 0.0 and low sec. unless u don't mind spending hours roaming for a rookie ship... deal with it. I SOLO EVERYWHERE. And I DON'T gank people i ONLY hunt pvp'ers! I am also not the only one. Bring you're usual 25+ hac gang vs my cruiser/BC? sure, but im taking down 1-2 of you're pathetic sniper hac's before you kill me anyway Or you loose half you're tacklers vs my ceptor... <- usually where most of my clones in 0.0 go... (to compare my low sec lowgrade slave set is now 2 years old) Don't come and tell me of pvp i can't handle as everywhere in 0.0 i roam you're ''elite 0.0 pvp alliances'' either dock up or form massive blobs and still loose isk wise 90% of the time. AGAIN, this is NOT and issue of isk, but an issue of BALANCE, the cost should not grow exponentially as the gains do NOT, the gains are DIMINISHING in returns the higher in SP you go, i believe the clones should reflect this. THAT is what this topic is about! -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
Anna Lifera Gallente Imperial Legion of Amarr	Posted - 2010.03.23 11:24:00 - [80] Originally by: adriaans I SOLO EVERYWHERE. And I DON'T gank people i ONLY hunt pvp'ers! I am also not the only one. Bring you're usual 25+ hac gang vs my cruiser/BC? sure, but im taking down 1-2 of you're pathetic sniper hac's before you kill me anyway Or you loose half you're tacklers vs my ceptor... <- usually where most of my clones in 0.0 go... (to compare my low sec lowgrade slave set is now 2 years old) Don't come and tell me of pvp i can't handle as everywhere in 0.0 i roam you're ''elite 0.0 pvp alliances'' either dock up or form massive blobs and still loose isk wise 90% of the time. AGAIN, this is NOT and issue of isk, but an issue of BALANCE, the cost should not grow exponentially as the gains do NOT, the gains are DIMINISHING in returns the higher in SP you go, i believe the clones should reflect this. THAT is what this topic is about! 1. solo anywhere? most of your recent kills were certainly not solo. looks like any other pvper's killboard to me and i don't see a solo hac kill either. might wanna fix all that so u can brag about internet spaceships some more. 2. what hac gang? i'm not even trained to fly one so wtf r u talking about? and what tacklers? it's only me, unless u're gonna count me as a tackler and dps or whatever... well not anymore since i don't have hours to kill roaming for 30 seconds of pvp... 3. l2read--i'm not in an alliance and i don't blob either. bad enough i had to spend 99% of my time roaming but i guess u have that much time to kill anyway... 4. hmm...diminishing returns as u keep training for gains...that sounds familiar... it's kinda like everything else in eve! faction mods, faction ships, and even the implants u use! obviously, if u can't handle the costs, maybe u should train an alt like other ppl suggested? i'd think ppl who've been playing for several years would've caught on by now... what's next? insurance on implants and t1-quality insurance on t2/t3/faction ships?
Marked Ugler	Posted - 2010.03.23 12:11:00 - [81] i support the motion. some people are casual players, and do not whant to grind isk for hours in order to come out and have some pvp in their frigates or smth.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.03.23 12:46:00 - [82] Originally by: Marked Ugler i support the motion. some people are casual players, and do not whant to grind isk for hours in order to come out and have some pvp in their frigates or smth. So all I have to do to deserve cheaper losses is call myself a "casual player"? I would have thought that "casual players" would also lose fewer ships in proportion to having less time to make isk to pay for them, but now I know that what it really means is that they shouldn't have to pay the same cost for their losses as "non casual" players. Perhaps we should just issue a "Casual Player Discount Card". Just answer a simple poll and your discount will be determined~ (1) I am not Casual: 0% Discount (2) I am a little Casual: 10% Discount (3) I am somewhat Casual: 20% Discount (4) I am very Casual: 30% Discount (5) I am totally Casual: 40% Discount (6) I just dont log in: 50% Discount
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.03.23 15:42:00 - [83] Edited by: adriaans on 23/03/2010 15:42:54 Originally by: Anna Lifera Originally by: adriaans I SOLO EVERYWHERE. And I DON'T gank people i ONLY hunt pvp'ers! I am also not the only one. Bring you're usual 25+ hac gang vs my cruiser/BC? sure, but im taking down 1-2 of you're pathetic sniper hac's before you kill me anyway Or you loose half you're tacklers vs my ceptor... <- usually where most of my clones in 0.0 go... (to compare my low sec lowgrade slave set is now 2 years old) Don't come and tell me of pvp i can't handle as everywhere in 0.0 i roam you're ''elite 0.0 pvp alliances'' either dock up or form massive blobs and still loose isk wise 90% of the time. AGAIN, this is NOT and issue of isk, but an issue of BALANCE, the cost should not grow exponentially as the gains do NOT, the gains are DIMINISHING in returns the higher in SP you go, i believe the clones should reflect this. THAT is what this topic is about! 1. solo anywhere? most of your recent kills were certainly not solo. looks like any other pvper's killboard to me and i don't see a solo hac kill either. might wanna fix all that so u can brag about internet spaceships some more. 2. what hac gang? i'm not even trained to fly one so wtf r u talking about? and what tacklers? it's only me, unless u're gonna count me as a tackler and dps or whatever... well not anymore since i don't have hours to kill roaming for 30 seconds of pvp... 3. l2read--i'm not in an alliance and i don't blob either. bad enough i had to spend 99% of my time roaming but i guess u have that much time to kill anyway... 4. hmm...diminishing returns as u keep training for gains...that sounds familiar... it's kinda like everything else in eve! faction mods, faction ships, and even the implants u use! obviously, if u can't handle the costs, maybe u should train an alt like other ppl suggested? i'd think ppl who've been playing for several years would've caught on by now... what's next? insurance on implants and t1-quality insurance on t2/t3/faction ships? maybe you should learn to read... 1. i mentioned earlier that i have several pvp chars. As I'm also the one to make roams for my alliance this char doesn't solo that often. And if that's you're pvp char you really shouldn't even talk about pvp.. 2. i was talking about the general 0.0 alliance which you mentioned in you're other post. 3. read nr 2. and what the heck is wrong with 0 hour roams, i find that much more fun than any other activity in eve. 4. Again, i HAVE 5 pvp chars. Total of 9. the lowest SP of any of those is 25 mill and that's a trader char... Are you stupid? this is about BALANCING clone cost from cost increasing exponential to cost reflecting the diminishing returns of high SP counts! We are not exactly asking about marauders costing 5 mill etc.... get a clue And i agree with malcanis on the casual player thing. That also has nothing to do with the argument of these clone costs. -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
b1zz	Posted - 2010.03.23 18:07:00 - [84] Originally by: adriaans And i agree with malcanis on the casual player thing. That also has nothing to do with the argument of these clone costs. Well, I find it curious that CCP provide a skill system that does not require any particular participation rate to advance, and then go and impliment a medical clone mechanic that requires us to participate as soon as possible - did they figure any casual players are only going to be around for 5 years max? I agree casual players should not be babied through the game, but I think casual players are plenty disadvantaged through lack of knowledge without putting the pressure on them to get in the game before the clone costs start to bite. --- Supported btw. The medical clone cost regime is: + Arbitrarily applied with no decision/control/choice from players (the most important point by a long way). + Not reflective of advantage gained, as far as I can see - although I have done no math on this, so if CCP have the figures that debunk this (I would assume they would have something) then, by all means, strike this one. + Discourages participation in 0.0. + Encourages metagaming and multi-boxing through alts: 1 toon with 100M SP = 30M ISK medical clone 2 toons with 50M SP each = 7.8M + 7.8M = 15.6M ISK total for both medical clones Although I'm not a fan of alts or multi-boxing, I do concede they are a part of the game; however, I do not think they should be a cheaper, and therefor an easier, option than playing with only one main toon, because they already provide a far easier way to play the game as it is. As an alternative, I like the idea forwarded by DigitalCommunist in the thread linked from the OP, of medical clone value determining clone cooldown periods after podding - the more you pay, the less time you wait (although I don't see CCP being too keen on an idea that keeps people from playing, but then again, that's basically what the current medical clone mechanic is doing, so maybe they'll have no problem with it ).
ddred	Posted - 2010.03.23 18:55:00 - [85] Not supported, own a 42M SP clone myself and I like the mortality in EVE.
Xiliath Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2010.03.23 21:23:00 - [86] Supported. It's hard to justify flying frigates when your clones cost 30m each yo
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.03.23 21:50:00 - [87] Originally by: Xiliath Supported. It's hard to justify flying frigates when your clones cost 30m each yo Yes, stupidity is always hard to justify. CCP should not make discounts for retards.
Anna Lifera Gallente Imperial Legion of Amarr	Posted - 2010.03.23 21:59:00 - [88] Originally by: adriaans maybe you should learn to read... 1. i mentioned earlier that i have several pvp chars. As I'm also the one to make roams for my alliance this char doesn't solo that often. And if that's you're pvp char you really shouldn't even talk about pvp.. 2. i was talking about the general 0.0 alliance which you mentioned in you're other post. 3. read nr 2. and what the heck is wrong with 0 hour roams, i find that much more fun than any other activity in eve. 4. Again, i HAVE 5 pvp chars. Total of 9. the lowest SP of any of those is 25 mill and that's a trader char... Are you stupid? this is about BALANCING clone cost from cost increasing exponential to cost reflecting the diminishing returns of high SP counts! We are not exactly asking about marauders costing 5 mill etc.... get a clue And i agree with malcanis on the casual player thing. That also has nothing to do with the argument of these clone costs. 1. u did not mention u have several pvp chars at all so which other 4 r they? 2. oh i'm sry--i don't have the time to fleet much to rack up hundreds of kills for even one char so by this logic, that's why i shouldn't talk about pvp? 'cause that would mean u can't solo pvp then which is really my point in the first place? 3. u find spending hours flying from system to system fun? r u just trolling now 'cause that 0 is a typo. 4. the way u talk about the supposedly unbearable costs of high sp clones when a simple measure to remedy it... think about it--if u're not getting returns that r worthwhile to u, why would u dig yourself a deeper hole by continuously billing yourself a higher clone cost? so if u can't afford it, use an alt. not my fault u're too stupid to adapt. 5. the solo/0.0 pvp thing may have nothing to do with the clone costs but it was merely in response to what u stated that ppl whine that there's no 0.0 pvp.
Ard UnjiiGo The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.03.23 23:44:00 - [89] Pathetic and sad. Not supported.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak	Posted - 2010.03.24 02:22:00 - [90] Originally by: Anna Lifera Originally by: adriaans maybe you should learn to read... 1. i mentioned earlier that i have several pvp chars. As I'm also the one to make roams for my alliance this char doesn't solo that often. And if that's you're pvp char you really shouldn't even talk about pvp.. 2. i was talking about the general 0.0 alliance which you mentioned in you're other post. 3. read nr 2. and what the heck is wrong with 0 hour roams, i find that much more fun than any other activity in eve. 4. Again, i HAVE 5 pvp chars. Total of 9. the lowest SP of any of those is 25 mill and that's a trader char... Are you stupid? this is about BALANCING clone cost from cost increasing exponential to cost reflecting the diminishing returns of high SP counts! We are not exactly asking about marauders costing 5 mill etc.... get a clue And i agree with malcanis on the casual player thing. That also has nothing to do with the argument of these clone costs. 1. u did not mention u have several pvp chars at all so which other 4 r they? 2. oh i'm sry--i don't have the time to fleet much to rack up hundreds of kills for even one char so by this logic, that's why i shouldn't talk about pvp? 'cause that would mean u can't solo pvp then which is really my point in the first place? 3. u find spending hours flying from system to system fun? r u just trolling now 'cause that 0 is a typo. 4. the way u talk about the supposedly unbearable costs of high sp clones when a simple measure to remedy it... think about it--if u're not getting returns that r worthwhile to u, why would u dig yourself a deeper hole by continuously billing yourself a higher clone cost? so if u can't afford it, use an alt. not my fault u're too stupid to adapt. 5. the solo/0.0 pvp thing may have nothing to do with the clone costs but it was merely in response to what u stated that ppl whine that there's no 0.0 pvp. you are either a troll or really stupid... 1. Not my job to tell you is it? I have reasons to not wanting them associated with each other. 2. you have 22 losses and 7 kills where only 3 of them is solo and 1 of those is a hulk... Bar the dramiel bombing and sabre bombing there isnt anything that shows proper pvp unless you count 5 ganks. Compared to this character that alone that has a few hundred where pretty much all are either solo or duo with a few small gang mixed in. No where is there any mention of blobbing up and farming kills... 3. meant 10 not 0 Have you ever even been on a proper roam? because if you had you would've known that a 10 hour roam is way more than mindless jumping from system to system. it's a cat and mouse game with much larger entities that one try to get at a disadvantage to take advantage of, also known as solo pvp, fun and player skill. 250 jump roams finds you a lot of entertainment if you know how! 4. i have said no where that clone costs are unbearable, i said (for god knows how many times now...) that *clone costs should not grow exponentially when the gains are diminishing, and that they discourage pvp in 0.0 after a certain point in smaller cheaper ships.* 5. Well people do whine there's no small gang or even solo in 0.0... Guess why? Because most people who do that prefer to fly smaller cheaper ships, which becomes unjustifiable at higher skill point levels, thus they all go somewhere else or quit. -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!

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