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Mingus Sin
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Posted - 2010.03.26 13:35:00 -
[1]
As a spectator to the propaganda machine of both alliances I have to say that I really cant tell either side from the other except for their views on slavery. For the last few years UK has been boasting that they have offered fair fights and always been turned down by CVA. UK has used the excuse of CVA blobing them with pets/friends. Now UK is doing the EXACT same thing they have accused CVA of. Regardless of the reasons, Uk is following the EXACT same path that CVA did.
Here is my prediction of the future. UK holds Providence for a few years while CVA becomes the freedom fighters. UK gets fat over time while CVA makes friends of the alliances in the area. CVA takes Providence back with the help of friends. CVA gets fat, UK gets friends and takes Providence back in a few years and the cycle repeats over and over again.
The only thing that allows everyone else to tell you guys apart is your view on slavery. I think both sides have good and bad pilots, good and bad posters, and you both want the same thing with the exception of slavery. You two are like brothers who are fighting over a girl, you both come from the same place, are made up of the same stuff but have a simple disagreement over one thing and let it split you apart.
Would be interesting to see what you two could accomplish if you ever worked out the slavery thing and ended this cycle.
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Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.26 13:48:00 -
[2]
You're missing an additional difference, somewhat apart from slavery.
CVA's goal is to control Providence, and indeed as much of nullsec as they can, and run it like Amarr space in the hope it will eventually become part of the Empire - with the institutionalised slavery this entails.
Ushra'Khan are opposed to this expansionism. Our desire to prevent it is why we're trying to drive out CVA and end their rule. We don't wish to replace them, simply to remove them and their holder allies - slavers one and all. Perhaps we will hold on to some systems here and there to fuel our war machine but we don't intend to rule entire regions as CVA have done.
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Charney deGeoff
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.26 14:05:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Mingus Sin
Would be interesting to see what you two could accomplish if you ever worked out the slavery thing and ended this cycle.
Yeah we think it's a shame the Empire can't end the cycle and abolish slavery as well.
As for the rest of your speculation of what might be if he-said-she-said-we-said-they-said - let's just see how it all ends when it ends, ok?
Do we really need to discuss this again? I think not.
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Sinti Vailatti
Kuomi Logistics
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Posted - 2010.03.26 14:23:00 -
[4]
You are totally right.
I'm thinking though that whichever side wins, they will soon go boom under their own mass.
Borza and Charney donÆt seem to understand that theyÆre just proving your point for you. Ideologies aside, you have two large groups, trying to do the job of their parent government without the same support.
Remove the ideologies and all UÆK is doing is trying to be the new CVA or Goonswarm. They will end up the same way. If Providence wasnÆt the door to vast mineral wealth, youÆd see UK based on Intaki or wherever the money happened to be.
So slavery probably isnÆt the real difference. The Empire is rich and powerful, the Republic is poor and jealous. All the rest is window dressing.
KUOMI LOGISTICS: The bright future, today!Ö |
Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.26 14:28:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sinti Vailatti
Ideologies aside, you have two large groups, trying to do the job of their parent government without the same support.
Ushra'Khan and CVA are our ideologies. You can't just say "if you ignore all their differences they're exactly the same" and pretend that is relevant in any shape or form.
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Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.26 14:31:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Xennith on 26/03/2010 14:31:31
Originally by: Sinti Vailatti
Remove the ideologies and all UÆK is doing is trying to be the new CVA or Goonswarm.
Bluh? What? We've repeatedly stated that we have no intention of being the new CVA and our recently imposed CAOD ban certainly shows that we have no intention of being anything like goonswarm.
Quote:
They will end up the same way. If Providence wasnÆt the door to vast mineral wealth, youÆd see UK based on Intaki or wherever the money happened to be.
If we were just after money, we'd all be in empire space building modules or hiding out with the northern coalition. Providence is possibly the worst region for mineral wealth in the cluster.
Quote:
So slavery probably isnÆt the real difference. The Empire is rich and powerful, the Republic is poor and jealous. All the rest is window dressing.
I suggest you check your coolant system, looks like a leak has effected your perceptions. You should also check with an engineer as to why you are using halucinogenic coolant.
UK has always been about ending slavery. Thats not changed now, nor will it ever change until slavery is no more.
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Sinti Vailatti
Kuomi Logistics
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Posted - 2010.03.26 14:38:00 -
[7]
If U'K were about ending slavery, you'd be attacking Amarr high-sec and not stealing slaves out on the rim sweety.
And Providence has rocks you can't get in Amarr or Republic high sec areas, so while it may not have as much as the north, it has more than others.
KUOMI LOGISTICS: The bright future, today!Ö |
Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.26 14:50:00 -
[8]
You may find it illuminating to take a look at the industrial development indices of Ushra'Khan held space 
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Wotlankor
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.26 14:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sinti Vailatti
If U'K were about ending slavery, you'd be attacking Amarr high-sec and not stealing slaves out on the rim sweety.
And Providence has rocks you can't get in Amarr or Republic high sec areas, so while it may not have as much as the north, it has more than others.
Ohh dear...
Do go back to readingclass and check CVA and UK history and their reason for being where they are.
I can see why your industrious mind leads you to the conclusions but do consider that we fight not for mere roids.
We fight for freedom.
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Sloth Arnini
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.26 15:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mingus Sin
As a spectator to the propaganda machine of both alliances I have to say that I really cant tell either side from the other except for their views on slavery.
In other news, night and day are the same except that one has a sun.
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Grr
Amarr
Epitoth Guard
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.26 17:43:00 -
[11]
Slavery has nothing to do with anything. I shoot Ushra'Khan because they are pirates, theives and terrorists plain and simple.
If CVA were to abolish slavery tomorrow (something I have suggested we consider in fact) I have no doubt U'K would remain pirates, thieves and terrorists and we'd continue to shoot them.
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Kazzzi
Amarr
Iniquitous Technologies
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2010.03.26 18:24:00 -
[12]
Oh look, another 'neutral observer' desperately in need of a history book.
I swear they breed like fedos. |
Chereadenine Zakalwe
Caldari
atrum ones
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Posted - 2010.03.26 18:41:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Chereadenine Zakalwe on 26/03/2010 18:44:10
Originally by: Grr
Slavery has nothing to do with anything. I shoot Ushra'Khan because they are pirates, theives and terrorists plain and simple.
If CVA were to abolish slavery tomorrow (something I have suggested we consider in fact) I have no doubt U'K would remain pirates, thieves and terrorists and we'd continue to shoot them.
The above is a lesson i learnt long ago.
Once upon a time my corp mates and i would (in the name of sport)assist UK in their cat and mouse games versus CVA.
"KPB is camped" "They went through IS gate"
There was respect..
And then UK invited their piwate friends to the party..
ENJ rising,hobos and co, and providence was a warzone...
My corp mates and i were hunted, we were given the same ultimatum that a old earth president once gave..you are with us or against us(even tho he did pay by the time the revolution came)
Since that time, i have watched Uk turn from so called freedom fighters, into galnet spamming alliance pets.
i have seen eloquent speaches against slavery, replaced by bitter dogged rants across the airwaves.
You will take this space, squander the trade routes and ruin the established industries..
You will make worse than slaves..you will make corpses of the people of providence.
ô您&#
Telling somebody you love them is like firing first in a dual.
Your screwed if you miss.. |
Butter Dog
Gallente
The Littlest Hobos
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.26 19:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sinti Vailatti
If U'K were about ending slavery, you'd be attacking Amarr high-sec and not stealing slaves out on the rim sweety.
Ignorant fool. The Amarrian Empire operate in collusion with CONCORD, proving an impossible barrier to the liberation of slaves by pod pilots. One shot at an Amarrian station has hordes of CONCORD police drones meaning certain death.
So we must fight slavery where we can. The expansion of slavery from core systems cannot and will not be tolerated - that we can attempt to control.
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~bitter dog~
etc |
Mister Builder
SSI-Holding's
SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE
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Posted - 2010.03.26 21:03:00 -
[15]
wouldnt be suprised as many alts they both have in each other groups really dont matter anymore there both *******s
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Ting Ling
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Posted - 2010.03.27 01:44:00 -
[16]
>wouldnt be suprised as many alts they both have in each other groups really dont matter anymore there both *******s< yeah they feed on each other dont they!
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Charney deGeoff
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.27 05:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Chereadenine Zakalwe
You will take this space, squander the trade routes and ruin the established industries..
The "people of Providence" you refer to are hardly innocent, neutral bystanders in this.
And yes, it's a war. The slavers and their supporters will be removed. Their infrastructure will be burned and they will be driven to the Empire screaming in front of our troops.
But it's not a war for territory as you all seem to think. We already have a home.
It's one for freedom. Still. After all these years.
And we can taste the victory. And you can taste your tears.
Not that anything I say can convince you otherwise, you've already made up your minds and picked your sides.
Just as everyone else who is starting useless Galnet threads very similar to this. Waste of bandwidth.
You say we're ranting. Look at yourself.
Let's just dance the dance so we can end it. |
Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.27 08:15:00 -
[18]
And yet, of course, the reality remaind that there are no slaves. I certainly have none. Show us the slaves. You are part of a dying breed that even cares about such things. The modern pilot cares only about the here and now and the real space they fly within.
And the victory was of course not that of UK at all. They have become no more than pets. This was a claim they have made toward us, so we enjoy the irony.
So in the end, no tears at all. In fact quite a laugh to see what has become of the mighty UK.
The mission is now nothing to do with slaves. The mission for UK now is to occupy space given to them by others, with sovereignty guarenteed by their masters.
For me personally, the changes have been extremely liberating... so good luck UK.
Unfortunately i am currently trapped planetside after a large cyclonic storm damaged local infrastructure. I don't evan have the luxury or electricity at the moment, and such it has been for a week now. But I enjoy the news here at the summit when I can :)
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Karn Mithralia
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.27 09:40:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 27/03/2010 09:41:03
Ahh the ever deluded and bitter Xina ..
Dieing breed? We grow stronger day by day and adapt to the 'verse as change comes upon us.
No slaves? Matters not to me you if you have none, what matters is your alliegence. For that you have been removed from Providence.
Pets? Woof! Sticks and stones my dear. You should learn to smack better, greeny is at least entertaining, if not a little hard to understand.
Enjoy your new found freedom.
((ooc: we all realise that the mechanics supporting the back story in regards to slavery are weak, yet the back story is what it is none-the-less. -7- may or may not have supported the ideals of slavery, that I could find an interesting debate. However your continual ignorant assertion that there are 'no slaves' is tiresome and irrelvent. Take your moaning to CAOD where it belongs.))
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Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.28 00:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 27/03/2010 09:41:03
Ahh the ever deluded and bitter Xina ..
Dieing breed? We grow stronger day by day and adapt to the 'verse as change comes upon us.
No slaves? Matters not to me you if you have none, what matters is your alliegence. For that you have been removed from Providence.
Pets? Woof! Sticks and stones my dear. You should learn to smack better, greeny is at least entertaining, if not a little hard to understand.
Enjoy your new found freedom.
((ooc: we all realise that the mechanics supporting the back story in regards to slavery are weak, yet the back story is what it is none-the-less. -7- may or may not have supported the ideals of slavery, that I could find an interesting debate. However your continual ignorant assertion that there are 'no slaves' is tiresome and irrelvent. Take your moaning to CAOD where it belongs.))
But you are a dying breed regardless. Firstly UK continues to absorb many who care nothing about slaves. So although the numbers may grow, the mission is weakened. Aside from that you are nothing without your mirror. If there is no CVA, then there is no mission. The rest of the cluster simply does not care, and that includes your great and powerful new masters.
As for OOC, I have no idea what this means. Perhaps it is you who should find another medium in which to broadcast.
I will continue to assert that UK is no longer really motivated by slavery, and their many new members care nothing about it. Their new masters, which secured their victory, care nothing about it. These facts are clear.
Indeed, it seems odd that CVA systems, those who supposedly are the slavers, still stand. Surely UK should be attacking those? Or do they need to await their masters in these matters?
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Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.28 00:43:00 -
[21]
Oh, and as answer to the original question. Yes.
Or to be more exact, CVA and UK depend on each other for their existance as they currently know it. UK is however being diluted, and CVA being removed. So it's likely this conflict may fade somewhat...
Although CVA systems remain, and UK have to await their masters to finish their removal we suspect.
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Charney deGeoff
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.28 06:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Xina Tutor
Indeed, it seems odd that CVA systems, those who supposedly are the slavers, still stand. Surely UK should be attacking those? Or do they need to await their masters in these matters?
Heh, when did your lot ever go anywhere alone? Sticks and stones again..
And when did you become our military advisor? :-) Just wait at the sidelines and keep watching as you've done so far.
Or *gasp*! Maybe your mastermind tactic of staying docked and boring us to death is actually working? Stay tuned!
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Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.28 08:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Charney deGeoff
Originally by: Xina Tutor
Indeed, it seems odd that CVA systems, those who supposedly are the slavers, still stand. Surely UK should be attacking those? Or do they need to await their masters in these matters?
Heh, when did your lot ever go anywhere alone? Sticks and stones again..
And when did you become our military advisor? :-) Just wait at the sidelines and keep watching as you've done so far.
Or *gasp*! Maybe your mastermind tactic of staying docked and boring us to death is actually working? Stay tuned!
heh... well at least we didn't need the entire southern coalition to back us up :P
And I rarely dock, so I have no clue what you mean. If you mean we chose not to take on the entire south head to head, well then sure. That seemed a pretty smart move.
So now we can pick at the fleas for a while.
It has been nice, I must admit, to se UK pilots flying without cloaks of late. I learned all I know about cloaking from these pilots. Over quite a long period...
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Grr
Amarr
Epitoth Guard
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.28 09:17:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Grr on 28/03/2010 09:17:44
Originally by: Xina Tutor
As for OOC, I have no idea what this means. Perhaps it is you who should find another medium in which to broadcast.
I was once told the term "OOC" refers to Out Of Coffee and that whoever uses this term normally goes on to spout verbal diarrhoea suggests that there could be some truth in that. Hmm my coffee is running low...
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Maggot
Minmatar
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.28 11:00:00 -
[25]
CVA does not depend on U'K in the slightest. Their mission statement and actions over the years have proven that they only have one aim, the expansion of the Amarr Empire.
U'K have no desire to build an empire, just to fight and crush the direct and indirect supporters of slavery. Once the institution of slavery is dead then I would expect U'K to go the same way. We can return to our farms, or families, or to what ever walk of life we previously had before we were brought to fight for this cause.
There is no doubt some brilliance within the ranks of the CVA and over the years we have converted many of their pilots to become fine warriors for the Ushra'khan.
Their empire is dulling a little under weapons fire at the moment but it is far from gone but I am sure their military and economic planners are far from inactive. However one thing they should not expect is for U'K to grow fat as they have done.
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Roboplegic
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.03.28 16:08:00 -
[26]
Why is everyone bringing up "slavery", it doesnt exist this is a game, ppl do what they like, unless your actually carring around the slaves commodity in your cargo hold, but who actually cares about that? Stop bringing it up, no one is a slave, no player is being "forced" to toil in the feilds its a f'ing game god sakes slavery doesnt exist you numnuts, jsut drop it and accept that your just using this lame excuse for pushing towards personal interests, via propaganda or some other medium, but who takes propaganda seriously anyways besides the funny pics. I cant get my head around it, bottom line is who's enslaving who? and dont tell me its so and so people becuase what authority do they have to do it anyways, ya know what i mean? It not like any1 pays a subscirption to have some guy "force" them to rat or something
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Butter Dog
Gallente
The Littlest Hobos
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.28 16:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Xina Tutor
Originally by: Charney deGeoff
Originally by: Xina Tutor
Indeed, it seems odd that CVA systems, those who supposedly are the slavers, still stand. Surely UK should be attacking those? Or do they need to await their masters in these matters?
Heh, when did your lot ever go anywhere alone? Sticks and stones again..
And when did you become our military advisor? :-) Just wait at the sidelines and keep watching as you've done so far.
Or *gasp*! Maybe your mastermind tactic of staying docked and boring us to death is actually working? Stay tuned!
heh... well at least we didn't need the entire southern coalition to back us up :P
And I rarely dock, so I have no clue what you mean. If you mean we chose not to take on the entire south head to head, well then sure. That seemed a pretty smart move.
So now we can pick at the fleas for a while.
It has been nice, I must admit, to se UK pilots flying without cloaks of late. I learned all I know about cloaking from these pilots. Over quite a long period...
I can dock in KBP.
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~bitter dog~
etc |
Charney deGeoff
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.28 16:43:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Roboplegic
Why is everyone bringing up "slavery", it doesnt exist this is a game, ppl do what they like, unless your actually carring around the slaves commodity in your cargo hold, but who actually cares about that? Stop bringing it up, no one is a slave, no player is being "forced" to toil in the feilds its a f'ing game god sakes slavery doesnt exist you numnuts, jsut drop it and accept that your just using this lame excuse for pushing towards personal interests, via propaganda or some other medium, but who takes propaganda seriously anyways besides the funny pics. I cant get my head around it, bottom line is who's enslaving who? and dont tell me its so and so people becuase what authority do they have to do it anyways, ya know what i mean? It not like any1 pays a subscirption to have some guy "force" them to rat or something
Psst |
Roboplegic
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.03.28 16:53:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Roboplegic on 28/03/2010 16:54:18
delete
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Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.28 21:59:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Maggot
CVA does not depend on U'K in the slightest. Their mission statement and actions over the years have proven that they only have one aim, the expansion of the Amarr Empire.
U'K have no desire to build an empire, just to fight and crush the direct and indirect supporters of slavery. Once the institution of slavery is dead then I would expect U'K to go the same way. We can return to our farms, or families, or to what ever walk of life we previously had before we were brought to fight for this cause.
Too true. The CVA mission, and certainly the Sev3rance mission, does not depend on the existance of UK. We simply seek open space where pilots may fly and mine and go about their business with a reduced risk of piracy. It is a relatively simple mission that can be achieved anywhere and any time.
UK however do depend on the likes of CVA to exist, at least in their original form. Without these 'slavers' to fight, UK may as well indeed return to their farms if that is their origin. Of course the new UK is moving beyond the slave mission and has been influenced by others, so we have no doubt they will continue on this path. And of course it is also likely that they will redefine other low wage earners and worker classes as 'slaves' and continue their crusade that way. Either way, the majority of the cluster will not care as long as pilots have cheap ships to fly and crews to service their vessels.
And at least they have their fleas to lord over for now, as their greater masters of the south allow...
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