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CVA and UK, two sides of the same coin?

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Mingus Sin	Posted - 2010.03.26 13:35:00 - [1] As a spectator to the propaganda machine of both alliances I have to say that I really cant tell either side from the other except for their views on slavery. For the last few years UK has been boasting that they have offered fair fights and always been turned down by CVA. UK has used the excuse of CVA blobing them with pets/friends. Now UK is doing the EXACT same thing they have accused CVA of. Regardless of the reasons, Uk is following the EXACT same path that CVA did. Here is my prediction of the future. UK holds Providence for a few years while CVA becomes the freedom fighters. UK gets fat over time while CVA makes friends of the alliances in the area. CVA takes Providence back with the help of friends. CVA gets fat, UK gets friends and takes Providence back in a few years and the cycle repeats over and over again. The only thing that allows everyone else to tell you guys apart is your view on slavery. I think both sides have good and bad pilots, good and bad posters, and you both want the same thing with the exception of slavery. You two are like brothers who are fighting over a girl, you both come from the same place, are made up of the same stuff but have a simple disagreement over one thing and let it split you apart. Would be interesting to see what you two could accomplish if you ever worked out the slavery thing and ended this cycle.
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.26 13:48:00 - [2] You're missing an additional difference, somewhat apart from slavery. CVA's goal is to control Providence, and indeed as much of nullsec as they can, and run it like Amarr space in the hope it will eventually become part of the Empire - with the institutionalised slavery this entails. Ushra'Khan are opposed to this expansionism. Our desire to prevent it is why we're trying to drive out CVA and end their rule. We don't wish to replace them, simply to remove them and their holder allies - slavers one and all. Perhaps we will hold on to some systems here and there to fuel our war machine but we don't intend to rule entire regions as CVA have done.
Charney deGeoff Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.26 14:05:00 - [3] Originally by: Mingus Sin Would be interesting to see what you two could accomplish if you ever worked out the slavery thing and ended this cycle. Yeah we think it's a shame the Empire can't end the cycle and abolish slavery as well. As for the rest of your speculation of what might be if he-said-she-said-we-said-they-said - let's just see how it all ends when it ends, ok? Do we really need to discuss this again? I think not.
Sinti Vailatti Kuomi Logistics	Posted - 2010.03.26 14:23:00 - [4] You are totally right. I'm thinking though that whichever side wins, they will soon go boom under their own mass. Borza and Charney donÆt seem to understand that theyÆre just proving your point for you. Ideologies aside, you have two large groups, trying to do the job of their parent government without the same support. Remove the ideologies and all UÆK is doing is trying to be the new CVA or Goonswarm. They will end up the same way. If Providence wasnÆt the door to vast mineral wealth, youÆd see UK based on Intaki or wherever the money happened to be. So slavery probably isnÆt the real difference. The Empire is rich and powerful, the Republic is poor and jealous. All the rest is window dressing. KUOMI LOGISTICS: The bright future, today!Ö
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.26 14:28:00 - [5] Originally by: Sinti Vailatti Ideologies aside, you have two large groups, trying to do the job of their parent government without the same support. Ushra'Khan and CVA are our ideologies. You can't just say "if you ignore all their differences they're exactly the same" and pretend that is relevant in any shape or form.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.26 14:31:00 - [6] Edited by: Xennith on 26/03/2010 14:31:31 Originally by: Sinti Vailatti Remove the ideologies and all UÆK is doing is trying to be the new CVA or Goonswarm. Bluh? What? We've repeatedly stated that we have no intention of being the new CVA and our recently imposed CAOD ban certainly shows that we have no intention of being anything like goonswarm. Quote: They will end up the same way. If Providence wasnÆt the door to vast mineral wealth, youÆd see UK based on Intaki or wherever the money happened to be. If we were just after money, we'd all be in empire space building modules or hiding out with the northern coalition. Providence is possibly the worst region for mineral wealth in the cluster. Quote: So slavery probably isnÆt the real difference. The Empire is rich and powerful, the Republic is poor and jealous. All the rest is window dressing. I suggest you check your coolant system, looks like a leak has effected your perceptions. You should also check with an engineer as to why you are using halucinogenic coolant. UK has always been about ending slavery. Thats not changed now, nor will it ever change until slavery is no more.
Sinti Vailatti Kuomi Logistics	Posted - 2010.03.26 14:38:00 - [7] If U'K were about ending slavery, you'd be attacking Amarr high-sec and not stealing slaves out on the rim sweety. And Providence has rocks you can't get in Amarr or Republic high sec areas, so while it may not have as much as the north, it has more than others. KUOMI LOGISTICS: The bright future, today!Ö
Borza Slavak Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.26 14:50:00 - [8] You may find it illuminating to take a look at the industrial development indices of Ushra'Khan held space
Wotlankor Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.26 14:50:00 - [9] Originally by: Sinti Vailatti If U'K were about ending slavery, you'd be attacking Amarr high-sec and not stealing slaves out on the rim sweety. And Providence has rocks you can't get in Amarr or Republic high sec areas, so while it may not have as much as the north, it has more than others. Ohh dear... Do go back to readingclass and check CVA and UK history and their reason for being where they are. I can see why your industrious mind leads you to the conclusions but do consider that we fight not for mere roids. We fight for freedom.
Sloth Arnini Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.26 15:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Mingus Sin As a spectator to the propaganda machine of both alliances I have to say that I really cant tell either side from the other except for their views on slavery. In other news, night and day are the same except that one has a sun.
Grr Amarr Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.26 17:43:00 - [11] Slavery has nothing to do with anything. I shoot Ushra'Khan because they are pirates, theives and terrorists plain and simple. If CVA were to abolish slavery tomorrow (something I have suggested we consider in fact) I have no doubt U'K would remain pirates, thieves and terrorists and we'd continue to shoot them.
Kazzzi Amarr Iniquitous Technologies Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.03.26 18:24:00 - [12] Oh look, another 'neutral observer' desperately in need of a history book. I swear they breed like fedos.
Chereadenine Zakalwe Caldari atrum ones	Posted - 2010.03.26 18:41:00 - [13] Edited by: Chereadenine Zakalwe on 26/03/2010 18:44:10 Originally by: Grr Slavery has nothing to do with anything. I shoot Ushra'Khan because they are pirates, theives and terrorists plain and simple. If CVA were to abolish slavery tomorrow (something I have suggested we consider in fact) I have no doubt U'K would remain pirates, thieves and terrorists and we'd continue to shoot them. The above is a lesson i learnt long ago. Once upon a time my corp mates and i would (in the name of sport)assist UK in their cat and mouse games versus CVA. "KPB is camped" "They went through IS gate" There was respect.. And then UK invited their piwate friends to the party.. ENJ rising,hobos and co, and providence was a warzone... My corp mates and i were hunted, we were given the same ultimatum that a old earth president once gave..you are with us or against us(even tho he did pay by the time the revolution came) Since that time, i have watched Uk turn from so called freedom fighters, into galnet spamming alliance pets. i have seen eloquent speaches against slavery, replaced by bitter dogged rants across the airwaves. You will take this space, squander the trade routes and ruin the established industries.. You will make worse than slaves..you will make corpses of the people of providence. ô您&# Telling somebody you love them is like firing first in a dual. Your screwed if you miss..
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.26 19:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Sinti Vailatti If U'K were about ending slavery, you'd be attacking Amarr high-sec and not stealing slaves out on the rim sweety. Ignorant fool. The Amarrian Empire operate in collusion with CONCORD, proving an impossible barrier to the liberation of slaves by pod pilots. One shot at an Amarrian station has hordes of CONCORD police drones meaning certain death. So we must fight slavery where we can. The expansion of slavery from core systems cannot and will not be tolerated - that we can attempt to control. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Mister Builder SSI-Holding's SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2010.03.26 21:03:00 - [15] wouldnt be suprised as many alts they both have in each other groups really dont matter anymore there both *******s
Ting Ling	Posted - 2010.03.27 01:44:00 - [16] >wouldnt be suprised as many alts they both have in each other groups really dont matter anymore there both *******s< yeah they feed on each other dont they!
Charney deGeoff Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.27 05:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Chereadenine Zakalwe You will take this space, squander the trade routes and ruin the established industries.. The "people of Providence" you refer to are hardly innocent, neutral bystanders in this. And yes, it's a war. The slavers and their supporters will be removed. Their infrastructure will be burned and they will be driven to the Empire screaming in front of our troops. But it's not a war for territory as you all seem to think. We already have a home. It's one for freedom. Still. After all these years. And we can taste the victory. And you can taste your tears. Not that anything I say can convince you otherwise, you've already made up your minds and picked your sides. Just as everyone else who is starting useless Galnet threads very similar to this. Waste of bandwidth. You say we're ranting. Look at yourself. Let's just dance the dance so we can end it.
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.27 08:15:00 - [18] And yet, of course, the reality remaind that there are no slaves. I certainly have none. Show us the slaves. You are part of a dying breed that even cares about such things. The modern pilot cares only about the here and now and the real space they fly within. And the victory was of course not that of UK at all. They have become no more than pets. This was a claim they have made toward us, so we enjoy the irony. So in the end, no tears at all. In fact quite a laugh to see what has become of the mighty UK. The mission is now nothing to do with slaves. The mission for UK now is to occupy space given to them by others, with sovereignty guarenteed by their masters. For me personally, the changes have been extremely liberating... so good luck UK. Unfortunately i am currently trapped planetside after a large cyclonic storm damaged local infrastructure. I don't evan have the luxury or electricity at the moment, and such it has been for a week now. But I enjoy the news here at the summit when I can :)
Karn Mithralia Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.27 09:40:00 - [19] Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 27/03/2010 09:41:03 Ahh the ever deluded and bitter Xina .. Dieing breed? We grow stronger day by day and adapt to the 'verse as change comes upon us. No slaves? Matters not to me you if you have none, what matters is your alliegence. For that you have been removed from Providence. Pets? Woof! Sticks and stones my dear. You should learn to smack better, greeny is at least entertaining, if not a little hard to understand. Enjoy your new found freedom. ((ooc: we all realise that the mechanics supporting the back story in regards to slavery are weak, yet the back story is what it is none-the-less. -7- may or may not have supported the ideals of slavery, that I could find an interesting debate. However your continual ignorant assertion that there are 'no slaves' is tiresome and irrelvent. Take your moaning to CAOD where it belongs.))
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.28 00:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Karn Mithralia Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 27/03/2010 09:41:03 Ahh the ever deluded and bitter Xina .. Dieing breed? We grow stronger day by day and adapt to the 'verse as change comes upon us. No slaves? Matters not to me you if you have none, what matters is your alliegence. For that you have been removed from Providence. Pets? Woof! Sticks and stones my dear. You should learn to smack better, greeny is at least entertaining, if not a little hard to understand. Enjoy your new found freedom. ((ooc: we all realise that the mechanics supporting the back story in regards to slavery are weak, yet the back story is what it is none-the-less. -7- may or may not have supported the ideals of slavery, that I could find an interesting debate. However your continual ignorant assertion that there are 'no slaves' is tiresome and irrelvent. Take your moaning to CAOD where it belongs.)) But you are a dying breed regardless. Firstly UK continues to absorb many who care nothing about slaves. So although the numbers may grow, the mission is weakened. Aside from that you are nothing without your mirror. If there is no CVA, then there is no mission. The rest of the cluster simply does not care, and that includes your great and powerful new masters. As for OOC, I have no idea what this means. Perhaps it is you who should find another medium in which to broadcast. I will continue to assert that UK is no longer really motivated by slavery, and their many new members care nothing about it. Their new masters, which secured their victory, care nothing about it. These facts are clear. Indeed, it seems odd that CVA systems, those who supposedly are the slavers, still stand. Surely UK should be attacking those? Or do they need to await their masters in these matters?
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.28 00:43:00 - [21] Oh, and as answer to the original question. Yes. Or to be more exact, CVA and UK depend on each other for their existance as they currently know it. UK is however being diluted, and CVA being removed. So it's likely this conflict may fade somewhat... Although CVA systems remain, and UK have to await their masters to finish their removal we suspect.
Charney deGeoff Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.28 06:31:00 - [22] Originally by: Xina Tutor Indeed, it seems odd that CVA systems, those who supposedly are the slavers, still stand. Surely UK should be attacking those? Or do they need to await their masters in these matters? Heh, when did your lot ever go anywhere alone? Sticks and stones again.. And when did you become our military advisor? :-) Just wait at the sidelines and keep watching as you've done so far. Or gasp! Maybe your mastermind tactic of staying docked and boring us to death is actually working? Stay tuned!
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.28 08:01:00 - [23] Originally by: Charney deGeoff Originally by: Xina Tutor Indeed, it seems odd that CVA systems, those who supposedly are the slavers, still stand. Surely UK should be attacking those? Or do they need to await their masters in these matters? Heh, when did your lot ever go anywhere alone? Sticks and stones again.. And when did you become our military advisor? :-) Just wait at the sidelines and keep watching as you've done so far. Or gasp! Maybe your mastermind tactic of staying docked and boring us to death is actually working? Stay tuned! heh... well at least we didn't need the entire southern coalition to back us up :P And I rarely dock, so I have no clue what you mean. If you mean we chose not to take on the entire south head to head, well then sure. That seemed a pretty smart move. So now we can pick at the fleas for a while. It has been nice, I must admit, to se UK pilots flying without cloaks of late. I learned all I know about cloaking from these pilots. Over quite a long period...
Grr Amarr Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.28 09:17:00 - [24] Edited by: Grr on 28/03/2010 09:17:44 Originally by: Xina Tutor As for OOC, I have no idea what this means. Perhaps it is you who should find another medium in which to broadcast. I was once told the term "OOC" refers to Out Of Coffee and that whoever uses this term normally goes on to spout verbal diarrhoea suggests that there could be some truth in that. Hmm my coffee is running low...
Maggot Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.28 11:00:00 - [25] CVA does not depend on U'K in the slightest. Their mission statement and actions over the years have proven that they only have one aim, the expansion of the Amarr Empire. U'K have no desire to build an empire, just to fight and crush the direct and indirect supporters of slavery. Once the institution of slavery is dead then I would expect U'K to go the same way. We can return to our farms, or families, or to what ever walk of life we previously had before we were brought to fight for this cause. There is no doubt some brilliance within the ranks of the CVA and over the years we have converted many of their pilots to become fine warriors for the Ushra'khan. Their empire is dulling a little under weapons fire at the moment but it is far from gone but I am sure their military and economic planners are far from inactive. However one thing they should not expect is for U'K to grow fat as they have done.
Roboplegic Amarr	Posted - 2010.03.28 16:08:00 - [26] Why is everyone bringing up "slavery", it doesnt exist this is a game, ppl do what they like, unless your actually carring around the slaves commodity in your cargo hold, but who actually cares about that? Stop bringing it up, no one is a slave, no player is being "forced" to toil in the feilds its a f'ing game god sakes slavery doesnt exist you numnuts, jsut drop it and accept that your just using this lame excuse for pushing towards personal interests, via propaganda or some other medium, but who takes propaganda seriously anyways besides the funny pics. I cant get my head around it, bottom line is who's enslaving who? and dont tell me its so and so people becuase what authority do they have to do it anyways, ya know what i mean? It not like any1 pays a subscirption to have some guy "force" them to rat or something
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.28 16:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Xina Tutor Originally by: Charney deGeoff Originally by: Xina Tutor Indeed, it seems odd that CVA systems, those who supposedly are the slavers, still stand. Surely UK should be attacking those? Or do they need to await their masters in these matters? Heh, when did your lot ever go anywhere alone? Sticks and stones again.. And when did you become our military advisor? :-) Just wait at the sidelines and keep watching as you've done so far. Or gasp! Maybe your mastermind tactic of staying docked and boring us to death is actually working? Stay tuned! heh... well at least we didn't need the entire southern coalition to back us up :P And I rarely dock, so I have no clue what you mean. If you mean we chose not to take on the entire south head to head, well then sure. That seemed a pretty smart move. So now we can pick at the fleas for a while. It has been nice, I must admit, to se UK pilots flying without cloaks of late. I learned all I know about cloaking from these pilots. Over quite a long period... I can dock in KBP. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Charney deGeoff Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.28 16:43:00 - [28] Originally by: Roboplegic Why is everyone bringing up "slavery", it doesnt exist this is a game, ppl do what they like, unless your actually carring around the slaves commodity in your cargo hold, but who actually cares about that? Stop bringing it up, no one is a slave, no player is being "forced" to toil in the feilds its a f'ing game god sakes slavery doesnt exist you numnuts, jsut drop it and accept that your just using this lame excuse for pushing towards personal interests, via propaganda or some other medium, but who takes propaganda seriously anyways besides the funny pics. I cant get my head around it, bottom line is who's enslaving who? and dont tell me its so and so people becuase what authority do they have to do it anyways, ya know what i mean? It not like any1 pays a subscirption to have some guy "force" them to rat or something Psst
Roboplegic Amarr	Posted - 2010.03.28 16:53:00 - [29] Edited by: Roboplegic on 28/03/2010 16:54:18 delete
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.28 21:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Maggot CVA does not depend on U'K in the slightest. Their mission statement and actions over the years have proven that they only have one aim, the expansion of the Amarr Empire. U'K have no desire to build an empire, just to fight and crush the direct and indirect supporters of slavery. Once the institution of slavery is dead then I would expect U'K to go the same way. We can return to our farms, or families, or to what ever walk of life we previously had before we were brought to fight for this cause. Too true. The CVA mission, and certainly the Sev3rance mission, does not depend on the existance of UK. We simply seek open space where pilots may fly and mine and go about their business with a reduced risk of piracy. It is a relatively simple mission that can be achieved anywhere and any time. UK however do depend on the likes of CVA to exist, at least in their original form. Without these 'slavers' to fight, UK may as well indeed return to their farms if that is their origin. Of course the new UK is moving beyond the slave mission and has been influenced by others, so we have no doubt they will continue on this path. And of course it is also likely that they will redefine other low wage earners and worker classes as 'slaves' and continue their crusade that way. Either way, the majority of the cluster will not care as long as pilots have cheap ships to fly and crews to service their vessels. And at least they have their fleas to lord over for now, as their greater masters of the south allow...
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.28 22:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Butter Dog I can dock in KBP. I have a dear friend docked there as well I believe. I dare say she will continue doing 'business' for some time on that local market, something I have little interest in myself.
Maggot Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.28 23:04:00 - [32] Originally by: Xina Tutor Of course the new UK is moving beyond the slave mission This is of course not true. Every single decision made by U'K exec is based on one goal. Once that goal is complete I look forward to a long retirement, drinking spiced wine whilst watching the moons of Pator cross the night sky.
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.28 23:17:00 - [33] Originally by: Maggot Originally by: Xina Tutor Of course the new UK is moving beyond the slave mission This is of course not true. Every single decision made by U'K exec is based on one goal. Once that goal is complete I look forward to a long retirement, drinking spiced wine whilst watching the moons of Pator cross the night sky. Of course you will. If all the slaves were free tomorrow you would stop flying altogether... Well, I needed a laugh.
Xina Tudor Amarr Brown Arrows	Posted - 2010.03.29 02:22:00 - [34] Damn, I wish I could mine in KBP
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.29 03:12:00 - [35] Originally by: Xina Tudor Damn, I wish I could mine in KBP Well you never know young Xina. I hear said that UK are NRDS, so give it a try. Now, did mommy say it was okay for you to use the galnet terminal today, hmm?
Xina Tudor Amarr Brown Arrows	Posted - 2010.03.29 03:21:00 - [36] Originally by: Xina Tutor Now, did mommy say it was okay for you to use the galnet terminal today, hmm? don't be jealous that she loves me more
Dog Butter Plus Sized Hobos	Posted - 2010.03.29 03:23:00 - [37] Plus Sized Hobos has declared war on Brown Arrows. Within 24 hours fighting can legally occur between those involved.
Xina Tudor Amarr Brown Arrows	Posted - 2010.03.29 03:38:00 - [38] Originally by: Dog Butter Plus Sized Hobos has declared war on Brown Arrows. Within 24 hours fighting can legally occur between those involved. Your bionic trolling laser is useless against my nonsensical shield of bitterness! I'll see you in space sir
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.29 08:05:00 - [39] Originally by: Xina Tudor Originally by: Dog Butter Plus Sized Hobos has declared war on Brown Arrows. Within 24 hours fighting can legally occur between those involved. Your bionic trolling laser is useless against my nonsensical shield of bitterness! I'll see you in space sir You know, imitation is the greatest form of flattery. I am pleased I have annoyed your superior officer sufficiently to warrant such praise :)
zoolkhan Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.29 11:36:00 - [40] can we lock down this frequency? the pointlessness ping pong between small neo-norvegian folklore figures, and their feeders is beyond sanity. where is concord when you need then. recruiting -forum
Tetseptus Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.03.29 13:08:00 - [41] Any resident of the cluster that denies the relevance of slaves is simply a deluded fool, and marks themselves as such by admitting that this is their belief. I suspect a mental dysfunction. It is quickly becoming acutely unsettling to see one so deluded being allowed to roam free and without a care from her so-called friends and/or family. Surely, members of her race have sufficient community spirit to preserve her the public exposure until she is well again. Perhaps they are all waiting for a slave to help her, so that they need not touch the mad person themselves. The fact that the entire Amarrian Empire is built by the slaves of the Amarr, and that the entire Amarrian economy is underpinned by the labours of those slaves is irrefutable, and indeed the very ships that they use to enslave still more every day will also have been built by those hands. All of this will also be irrelevant in the mind of the deluded too. Indeed, we are looking at a flat denial of at least half of what we sane folk may refer to as reality. In order to bring down the institution as a whole, it is only good strategy to attack a regime where it is weakest. Once the CVA, and the slaver, is gone from Providence and all other areas of space, the Empire stronghold can be assaulted. The anti-slavery movement would undoubtedly settle for a renouncement of slavery as a whole long before this comes to pass. It would be hoped that the Amarrians would see sense before they lost their home space. Until this happens, people fighting slavery will continue to fight. Be absolutely certain of it, and to assume otherwise is still further senseless denial. My understanding is that any who would deny the prevailing 'reality', such as it is, can only be sanity-impaired. Perhaps I am mistaken. ((OOC: Before you post, æthis is not realityÆ, note that the IGS is ôAn in-character, role-playing centeràö)) Tetseptus, Vherokior Fighter 2nd Generation Free-Born
Xina Tudor Amarr Brown Arrows	Posted - 2010.03.29 16:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Xina Tutor You know, imitation is the greatest form of flattery. this is why you continue to copy my galnet transmissions. but you are a terrible doppelganger as for who copys who, i think my superior combat record speaks for itself
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.30 04:33:00 - [43] OOC? Someone else is out of coffee? Anyway, as we all know, there is reality and 'reality' and there are slaves and 'slaves'. These really come down to definitions, but regardless of that, the ordinary pilot does not really care. Because of this, the status of a worker population becomes irrelevant. All the worker classes are underpaid and poorly provided for, and generally ignored. Indeed many 'slaves' fair substancially better than so called 'paid' workers, as we all well know. Considering that most are 'trapped' on the life and employment they have, we can easily define any as slaves if we choose, and even the Federation is as guilty of this as any. If anything the Amarr are at least up front about actual status of many of the workforce and even provide certain exit strategies with appropriate payments. I doubt this is the case under the other great powers where the working classes are simply ignored, burried and forgotten. The simple fact remains that capsulers do not care about the working classes, slaves or otherwise. We have risen above that to a point of near godhood. Now I am happy to admit that the lower classes really are very much beneath me. Perhaps others are not. Pilots of the UK have certainly given lip service to the underlings over the years, but their recent actions tell us that perhaps it is nothing more than this. Do they really care, at least any more? UK are now a minion of the great southern coalition, and do any us us think these are pilots who care anything about the lesser classes or slaves. Indirectly or otherwise, these pilots have grown fat on the sweat of slaves or working classes for many years. It is hypocrtical of UK to hold it's current stance while sheltering beneath the wing of such an empire. UK continues to focus it's attention on one group simply because they are one of the few to be open and honest about their labour forces. But UK ignores the rest of the cluster and the conditions that exist within. They see this only in black and with, with a great deal of tunnel vision, whereas it is really quite grey, a very dirty grey. And I still ask.. where are the slaves. They seem very forgotten in this current conflict. Which never had anything to do with slaves, of course.
Stratio Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 11:26:00 - [44] Edited by: Stratio on 30/03/2010 11:26:26 Originally by: Xina Tutor OOC? Someone else is out of coffee? Oh good point, I need to get some more. Originally by: Xina Tutor The simple fact remains that capsulers do not care about the working classes, slaves or otherwise. We have risen above that to a point of near godhood. Now I am happy to admit that the lower classes really are very much beneath me. Perhaps others are not. Pilots of the UK have certainly given lip service to the underlings over the years, but their recent actions tell us that perhaps it is nothing more than this. Do they really care, at least any more? Personally, yes I do very much care about the rights of workers. _____________________ For Tribe and Honour!
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.30 11:59:00 - [45] Edited by: Xina Tutor on 30/03/2010 11:59:14 Originally by: Stratio Personally, yes I do very much care about the rights of workers. Well.. good to hear. I will look forward to some of that put into practice perhaps.
Stratio Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 12:35:00 - [46] Why do you assume it hasn't ? _____________________ For Tribe and Honour!
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile	Posted - 2010.03.30 17:52:00 - [47] This argument we keep seeing that Usha'Khan has in some way abandoned the very reason for its existence through its relationship with a capsuleer "nation" is ... very strange. Bargaining with a devil, if -A- can be described as such, to unseat an Amarrian enclave such as Providence strikes me as merely a good example of U'K putting its ISK where its mouth is: freedom for the enslaved Matari, freedom at all costs. In all the years I've observed Ushra'Khan, this is its one, unchanging theme. How are recent events any different?
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 18:52:00 - [48] Originally by: Aria Jenneth In all the years I've observed Ushra'Khan, this is its one, unchanging theme. How are recent events any different? We're winning, and this makes people bitter. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.30 20:35:00 - [49] 'Why do you assume it hasn't ?' Because I still see slaves awaitig freedom in KBP. 'We're winning, and this makes people bitter.' 'We' meaning the southern coalition. The pets are just along for the ride :) Manfred is building a play pen and their own little feeding ground, and a dead looking area it is becoming already as predicted, so good luck to him on that one. Meanwhile, since this was after all some of the poorest space in the cluster, we will simply move elsewhere and continue. Good win. Have fun there :)
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 20:40:00 - [50] Originally by: Xina Tutor we will simply move elsewhere and continue. "We" being CVA and their attendant cloud of sycophants? Im sure that "we" will be seeing "you" soon enough, we have vagabonds rusting in hangers.
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.30 21:40:00 - [51] Originally by: Xennith Originally by: Xina Tutor we will simply move elsewhere and continue. "We" being CVA and their attendant cloud of sycophants? Im sure that "we" will be seeing "you" soon enough, we have vagabonds rusting in hangers. CVA? who knows. They have objectives that were aditional to our own, both at a corp and ally level, so you have to ask them. As for your rusty ships. The way I predict Providence will soon look, I would suggest a lot of rustproofing.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.30 21:52:00 - [52] Oh, well your slaver buddies were promising a guerrilla war that would make our lives a misery. Looks like we'll have to travel.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile	Posted - 2010.03.30 23:08:00 - [53] Originally by: Xina Tutor 'Why do you assume it hasn't ?' Because I still see slaves awaitig freedom in KBP. Now hold on a moment, pilot. Are you talking about slaves in private storage, as opposed to station personnel? U'K can't access those-- if their owners are capsuleers, those slaves remain on inviolate sovereign territory that only their owners, or their owners' corporations, I believe, can access. Station ownership does not grant access to private caches of goods-- or people. U'K can no more rescue such unfortunates than the Gallente can confiscate boosters from my hangars in their space; the most the Federal authorities can do is try to catch me carrying them in my cargo. Are you talking about slaves in market escrow? Well, in that case they're still privately held-- and U'K has stated clearly and repeatedly that they won't buy slaves, even to free them. Consequently, the slaves remain, like those stuck in storage, private property unless and until their owners choose to surrender them or grant them their freedom. And if you aren't talking about slaves in either of these positions, exactly what are you talking about?
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.30 23:48:00 - [54] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Originally by: Xina Tutor 'Why do you assume it hasn't ?' Because I still see slaves awaitig freedom in KBP. Now hold on a moment, pilot. Are you talking about slaves in private storage, as opposed to station personnel? U'K can't access those-- if their owners are capsuleers, those slaves remain on inviolate sovereign territory that only their owners, or their owners' corporations, I believe, can access. Station ownership does not grant access to private caches of goods-- or people. U'K can no more rescue such unfortunates than the Gallente can confiscate boosters from my hangars in their space; the most the Federal authorities can do is try to catch me carrying them in my cargo. Are you talking about slaves in market escrow? Well, in that case they're still privately held-- and U'K has stated clearly and repeatedly that they won't buy slaves, even to free them. Consequently, the slaves remain, like those stuck in storage, private property unless and until their owners choose to surrender them or grant them their freedom. And if you aren't talking about slaves in either of these positions, exactly what are you talking about? Ah.. good cop out. So UK wont go to all extremes to free slaves at all (or any real effort). As suspected, it is just lip service. After all the claim here has been that isk does not matter, only the freedom of their people... but it appears that is not really the case at all :)
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2010.03.31 09:38:00 - [55] And so the fool Xina Tutor dances with glee that her clever clever machinations have finally been exposed. She put some people up for sale in a station in Providence as she fled it. Now she attempts to use them as a goad against the freedom fighters. Know this Xina Tutor, your adolescent mulings are nothing new. The fact that we can not break open your personal hangars and loot, due, not only to CONCORD law, but ghosts in the machine that we can do nothing about. Freedom Fighters do not buy peoples freedom, ever. We know the ramifications of doing so. However, some philanthropist may choose to give you the ISK you so desire. I, personally, am satisfied, that although still imprisoned within some vault, awaiting your mercy or that philanthropist, they are more free than if you still held the station. So, yes, we see here a slaver, bartering peoples lives for her own sick pleasure. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.31 11:19:00 - [56] Xina, your alliance is worthless. Just hurry up and die and spare us your Galnet musings. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.31 11:22:00 - [57] Originally by: Kade Jeekin And so the fool Xina Tutor dances with glee that her clever clever machinations have finally been exposed. She put some people up for sale in a station in Providence as she fled it. Now she attempts to use them as a goad against the freedom fighters. Know this Xina Tutor, your adolescent mulings are nothing new. The fact that we can not break open your personal hangars and loot, due, not only to CONCORD law, but ghosts in the machine that we can do nothing about. Freedom Fighters do not buy peoples freedom, ever. We know the ramifications of doing so. However, some philanthropist may choose to give you the ISK you so desire. I, personally, am satisfied, that although still imprisoned within some vault, awaiting your mercy or that philanthropist, they are more free than if you still held the station. So, yes, we see here a slaver, bartering peoples lives for her own sick pleasure. I have never dealt in slaves. Ever. I would suggest you provide some evidence that I own any such slaves or have any on a market anywhere. But I am not blind. I do see such things as I fly through the new 'free' Providence systems. I also see a lot of desolation. It has become a wilderness, and I feel dearly for the many on the various stations that have lost livelyhoods in the great depression that has now hit. From bustling ports to ghostowns. Keep up the good work :)
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.03.31 11:42:00 - [58] Originally by: Butter Dog Xina, your alliance is worthless. Just hurry up and die and spare us your Galnet musings. This, and all the out of coffee guys, fill me with a great joy to be here. Oh, and I still have a clone, so no prob ;)
DirtyDirty88 Chooch Inc. Twilight Federation	Posted - 2010.03.31 12:36:00 - [59] I see what you see Mingus. Being a Catch resident myself, I often see UK, who know has an interestingly large number of the late Sylph Alliance. I spoke directly with a member of a corp that was recently barred from Ushra'Kahn, and the pilot admits this fact. UK is loosing their Anti-Slaver Ideals as much as gaining useless pilots with a knack for killing Sansha. Reports being that Karn Mithralia is no longer sole executor and the pilot Saphrine is now the head have not been substantiated, but this could attribute to the sudden flux of Pirate Bounty-Hunter and Industry pilots that have been flooding the Ushra'Kahn alliance.
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2010.03.31 13:39:00 - [60] Originally by: Xina Tutor I have never dealt in slaves. Ever. I would suggest you provide some evidence that I own any such slaves or have any on a market anywhere. But I am not blind. I do see such things as I fly through the new 'free' Providence systems... Then I jumped to wrong conclusions based on your crowing. Never mind. Your attitude remains the same. You have no interest beyond using these people as a goad. The core of my reply also remains the same: Quote: Freedom Fighters do not buy people's freedom, ever. We know the ramifications of doing so. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Karn Mithralia Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.31 14:21:00 - [61] Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 31/03/2010 14:23:47 Originally by: DirtyDirty88 Reports being that Karn Mithralia is no longer sole executor and the pilot Saphrine is now the head have not been substantiated Quality intel, allow me to do some substantiating. I haven't lead Ushra'Khan since we left Curse, 'though I remain Executor and an active member of the alliance executive. We have had two alliance heads since I stood down, Sapphrine and Kerth Gersen. Kerth handed over the reins to Sapp quite some time ago. Karn shrugs Not that it makes any difference, Uhra'Khan is greater than any one man. Depth in leadership is part of our secret of longevity.
Rogue Steel Order of the Chaotic Sewn Together Wrong	Posted - 2010.03.31 18:26:00 - [62] Originally by: Xina Tutor Originally by: Aria Jenneth Are you talking about slaves in market escrow? Ah.. good cop out. So UK wont go to all extremes to free slaves at all (or any real effort). As suspected, it is just lip service. Buying slaves kinda sounds like directly supporting slavery. Sounds like something that might violate U'K core principals. Originally by: Aria Jenneth This argument we keep seeing that Usha'Khan has in some way abandoned the very reason for its existence through its relationship with a capsuleer "nation" is ... very strange. Bargaining with a devil, if -A- can be described as such, to unseat an Amarrian enclave such as Providence strikes me as merely a good example of U'K putting its ISK where its mouth is: freedom for the enslaved Matari, freedom at all costs. In all the years I've observed Ushra'Khan, this is its one, unchanging theme. How are recent events any different? Great post in a pretty terrible thread. Funny how an Angel Cartel pirate is wiser and less slanderous than a former Imperial sympathizer Originally by: DirtyDirty88 Reports being that Karn Mithralia is no longer sole executor Unverified 2 year old intel? No wonder you people are losing systems faster than a gatling blaster spits antimatter.
zoolkhan Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.03.31 19:27:00 - [63] Edited by: zoolkhan on 31/03/2010 19:27:17 this conversation might profit from beeing accidentially erased. recruiting -forum
Xiro Taunt	Posted - 2010.03.31 22:42:00 - [64] Originally by: zoolkhan Edited by: zoolkhan on 31/03/2010 19:27:17 this conversation might profit from beeing accidentially erased. Yes. Neither side cares anything about slaves.
foksieloy Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.01 06:43:00 - [65] Originally by: Xina Tutor The pets are just along for the ride. At least we are competent enough to be offered space, for absolutely no price or anything. You on the other hand are NC pets who will never own one, being incompetent as you are. So, pet, run along - nothing to see here. _______________________ We come for our people!
Syyl'ara	Posted - 2010.04.01 15:47:00 - [66] Originally by: foksieloy At least we are competent enough to be offered space, for absolutely no price or anything. Capitulation is, in fact, a price.
foksieloy Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.02 12:06:00 - [67] Interestingly enough, one we never will or have payed. _______________________ We come for our people!
Xina Tutor Amarr Hot Chicks	Posted - 2010.04.02 12:40:00 - [68] Being a Hot Chick and all, I rarely pay for anything.
Stratio Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.02 12:54:00 - [69] Originally by: Xina Tutor 'Why do you assume it hasn't ?' Because I still see slaves awaitig freedom in KBP. Eh? We were discussing the rights of workers, remember? _____________________ For Tribe and Honour!
Syyl'ara	Posted - 2010.04.02 15:16:00 - [70] Edited by: Syyl''ara on 02/04/2010 15:19:59 Originally by: foksieloy Interestingly enough, one we never will or have payed. You are cooperating with slaver supporters to remove other slaver supporters despite your supposedly uncompromising attitude. Setting aside your hard-line stance and making deals under the table is capitulating. Another truth you'll likely found out very soon is this: What the strong call "consolidating purposes" is more often the bending of those weaker to their will. Demanding to be recognized as the unyeilding voice of your cause while at the same time yielding where it suits you to is the gist of my disagreement. Be one thing or be the other, but don't be one thing while claiming the other, it just makes you look vain, ineffective, and hypocritical.
Xiro Taunt Minmatar Lesbos Logistics	Posted - 2010.04.02 21:46:00 - [71] You would be surprised the places a hot chick like me can get into.
Xina Tutor Amarr Hot Chicks	Posted - 2010.04.02 21:55:00 - [72] Originally by: Xiro Taunt You would be surprised the places a hot chick like me can get into. YOU are not a Hot Chick! But I AM!
Kazzzi Amarr Iniquitous Technologies Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.04.03 02:22:00 - [73] I'd do both of you, but that really isn't saying much.
zoolkhan Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.03 09:00:00 - [74] those folks who care for my opinion: stop feeding the troll already, pretty please. All others, you took the wrong exit, and ended up on the wrong frequency. recruiting -forum

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