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nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:Sabine Demsky wrote:Please allow only ONE to a ship and change the boost ammount according to cap. booster charge SIZE. or only allow one size. Thx, feedback welcome. blah. If you can't adapt you should just walk away. Oh, sorry, I forgotr this was Eve: whine in the Forums and petition the unfairness of not being able to kill an opponent! Nerf it! NERF IT!!!
there is no way to adapt to something that is overpowered on already overpowered minmatar hulls. read this topic first.
only way to adapt is if everyone will fly the same ship. |
Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cpt Branko wrote:Oh hi I'm back again (for a while, anyway).
The new ancilliary boosters seem quite sweet for shield-bonused ships, esp. using crystals/pills. 60 seconds of essentially not receiving damage from a single ship (or even two less ganky ships) is quite damn powerful, and probably enough to make many ships win pointblank even vs slaved buffer-fits. At least, i can see a ancilliary-boosted Cyclone killing a slaved Hurricane (pills might be required, or not).
That said, it again missed the point when it comes to tanking and solo/small gang use. Instead of making active tanking modules take less slots and have less fitting requirements and cap consumption to make them comparable to buffer tanks when it comes to DPS (and speed, regarding armour rigs), they made a improved shield tank fueled directly off cap boosters.
The main problem of active tanks for solo / small gang stuff was not that the amount of tanked vs ehp lost is so low. Even a dual-MAR BC tank which tanks 350 ehp/s or so is not that bad in actual tanking ability, it beats the 3-slot (+3 rig slot) plate fit in survivability when taking less than 800 DPS (comparing two Hurricanes). If all other parameters were equal, I would often opt for an active tank, especially for solo work.
The problem is however very simple, the 3-slot tank takes 3 lowslots, and the dual-MAR takes 5 lowslots and a midslot, and ends up eating more PG and CPU, so you lose two gyrostabs and have to use smaller guns, resulting in a massive DPS loss. It is also equally slow, since trimark rigs have the same penalties as repair rigs. The huge DPS loss just makes it pointless to use the active tank, not the loss in survivability.
Boosting tanking outright is hardly helpful to the solo PVP-er; soloers (and small gangs, where a small gang is 2-5 people at most, not 50 BS) always benefited from DPS and the ability to quickly kill their targets.
The reason is simple, the sooner you can kill the other ship(s), the smaller the chance of the greatest counter to any solo ship appearing - namely, the other guy's gang/blob (or falcon alt), and the easier it is to exploit the mistakes others make, like bad positioning, gang/blob arriving piecemeal, etcetera.
Now off to actually install EVE and shoot someone, enough moaning from an oldtimer :)
Welcome back. It's a very long time and you've covered it all in one post. I think I'll cross post this. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
431
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 19:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
Saile Litestrider wrote:Lin-Young BorovskovaSorry what flexibility are you talking about?
I mean, why would you make that mod use 400's and 800's for exactly the same rep amount/cycle if it's not for trolling players and give pawns "I win" buttons?
Who on earth is that stupid to use 800's when all it needs is 400's? [:o wrote: What other module uses cap boosters? What if 50s isn't enough to run your other cap-hungry mods you need to run, are you going to split your cargo, which is already strained between ammo and 50s for your MASB? But regardless of whether you want to believe fitting might be the motive, why is it an "i win" button? It wouldn't be if they hadn't allowed 800s in the x-large at all, you wouldn't even have that complaint, only general whining about the module itself, it really is a moot argument. You said it yourself "nobody uses 800s", so why argue the balance of the module around them?
Actually I'm asking for "balance", witch seems to bother. After all I use those too and therefore should say "hey ccp boost ASB they're so weak..." ? No, this module is quite ok until you fit more than one and have support for charges, you don't need skill to kill stuff, you need to make it run as much as possible and keep target at guns range. WOOOOOOOW Again, I like my XL ASB Talos, it's not OP at all, no no.... brb |
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2012.07.05 21:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Actually I'm asking for "balance", witch seems to bother. After all I use those too and therefore should say "hey ccp boost ASB they're so weak..." ? No, this module is quite ok until you fit more than one and have support for charges, you don't need skill to kill stuff, you need to make it run as much as possible and keep target at guns range. WOOOOOOOW Again, I like my XL ASB Talos, it's not OP at all, no no.... What do you mean by "support for charges"? An Ity V dropping cans in front of you? Why would you do that when you could have a logi, or a falcon, or any of the other powerful game-changing ships helping you out?
And you can simplify literally any ship and fighting style as "run your mods as much as possible and keep in your optimal." |
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
179
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 21:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Actually I'm asking for "balance", witch seems to bother. After all I use those too and therefore should say "hey ccp boost ASB they're so weak..." ? No, this module is quite ok until you fit more than one and have support for charges, you don't need skill to kill stuff, you need to make it run as much as possible and keep target at guns range. WOOOOOOOW Again, I like my XL ASB Talos, it's not OP at all, no no....
Mind sharing your xlasb talos setup? Because a pair of XLSBs on a talos uses 400 of its 450 base CPU, and 1k of its 1375 powergrid.
As for the balancing itself, tbh I'd like to see them brought to the same level of boosting as regular shield boosters, given a 10 second reload time instead of 60, and not usable without cap charges. It'd have them still be viable, but we'd have fewer people whining about them. |
chris elliot
EG CORP Talocan United
25
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Posted - 2012.07.05 22:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Actually I'm asking for "balance", witch seems to bother. After all I use those too and therefore should say "hey ccp boost ASB they're so weak..." ? No, this module is quite ok until you fit more than one and have support for charges, you don't need skill to kill stuff, you need to make it run as much as possible and keep target at guns range. WOOOOOOOW Again, I like my XL ASB Talos, it's not OP at all, no no....
Mind sharing your xlasb talos setup? Because a pair of XLSBs on a talos uses 400 of its 450 base CPU, and 1k of its 1375 powergrid. As for the balancing itself, tbh I'd like to see them brought to the same level of boosting as regular shield boosters, given a 10 second reload time instead of 60, and not usable without cap charges. It'd have them still be viable, but we'd have fewer people whining about them.
If CCP wanted to do that they wouldn't have bothered to make the ASB in the first place. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1624
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 22:47:00 -
[37] - Quote
As a matter of fact, all active tanking mods should be brought to their level or even beyond that.
PVE would be too easy? *shrugs* - it's 100% foolproof already, so what?
The only annoying thing is that it should have been an armor mod in the first place - shield was better at pvp burst tanking anyway, so active armor tanks would have had more need of it. You know... morons. |
Je720
Mentally Unstable Enterprises Drunk 'n' Disorderly
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:As a matter of fact, all active tanking mods should be brought to their level or even beyond that.
PVE would be too easy? *shrugs* - it's 100% foolproof already, so what?
The only annoying thing is that it should have been an armor mod in the first place - shield was better at pvp burst tanking anyway, so active armor tanks would have had more need of it.
This.
The main benefit of Ancillary boosters should be that their tank is almost invulnerable to neutralisation (bar hardeners) and the ability not to have to fit a cap booster too run an active tank, freeing up mid slots for PVP tackle/more tank. Now not only are active armour tanks worse, they are still far more vulnerable to neutralisation as cap must be put into the ship before it going into tanking giving the opportunity to be taken away. And since when have they needed to limit the use of active tanking mods in the Alliance Tournament? |
Khanh'rhh
1377
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
How many people have actually used these outside of EFT?
40-50secs of a super-OMG tank isn't that amazing when you're left with a low EHP buffer and 60seconds of no-tank.
Regular buffer fits do well against them if you avoid damage whilst it's tanking then close range and brawl when it can't.
They're very well balanced over the length of a fight.
But the fact the cap charge size has no effect is silly. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
447
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:53:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Actually I'm asking for "balance", witch seems to bother. After all I use those too and therefore should say "hey ccp boost ASB they're so weak..." ? No, this module is quite ok until you fit more than one and have support for charges, you don't need skill to kill stuff, you need to make it run as much as possible and keep target at guns range. WOOOOOOOW Again, I like my XL ASB Talos, it's not OP at all, no no....
Mind sharing your xlasb talos setup? Because a pair of XLSBs on a talos uses 400 of its 450 base CPU, and 1k of its 1375 powergrid. As for the balancing itself, tbh I'd like to see them brought to the same level of boosting as regular shield boosters, given a 10 second reload time instead of 60, and not usable without cap charges. It'd have them still be viable, but we'd have fewer people whining about them.
Didn't said a pair of XL on Talos, a single one provides you enough tank to gank with no problem 5 men gang roaming without jam/logi ship, and you still have 1.2K (-/+) dps with faction AM or about 800'ish with null at 40km.
Of course the comment about putting more than one goes for ships with dedicated shield bonus and having enough room for those brb |
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Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Requesting Ancillary Armor Repairer |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
447
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:Requesting Ancillary Armor Repairer
I strongly support this begging
brb |
Tankn00blicus
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Skeleton Crew
9
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:Requesting Ancillary Armor Repairer But that would buff Gallente, and we can't have that. |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Scope Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 13:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
Sabine Demsky wrote:Please allow only ONE to a ship and change the boost ammount according to cap. booster charge SIZE. or only allow one size. Thx, feedback welcome. blah.
Agreed, I think this ASB is one of the most broken modules that has come into the game in recent history... With the prevalence of off grid boosters and blue pils small scale pvp has seen a far more negative impact than positive. I'd even argue that fitting requirements should go up preventing the use of Medium ASB on frigates as well.
I do not believe that the addition of an armor version of the broken module will have any positive impact on the game....
Bouh Revetoile wrote:A counter to this module is standard active tank or logi. But standard active tank is not powerful enough, it need a buff to be in line with ASB.
ugggg, this is not wow, lets stop the abusive power creep that will inevitably prevent this poorly balanced game from ever being balanced...
The advantage of the ASB should be that you can sustain an active shield tank while being heavily nueted, not to couple this with a significantly more powerful burst tank... Are you daft ccp? |
Taurich Vorsel
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 15:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
Sabine Demsky wrote: Thx, feedback welcome. blah.
OK You have a bad haricut, stupid glasses, and are wrong Copine Callmeknau disappeared one day now we are left with Taurich Vorsel AKA BIZARRO COPE! |
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 15:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:ugggg, this is not wow, lets stop the abusive power creep that will inevitably prevent this poorly balanced game from ever being balanced... Do we have a corollary to Godwin's Law that instead involves poor comparisons to WoW yet? |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Scope Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 15:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
Saile Litestrider wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:ugggg, this is not wow, lets stop the abusive power creep that will inevitably prevent this poorly balanced game from ever being balanced... Do we have a corollary to Godwin's Law that instead involves poor comparisons to WoW yet?
yeah, because wow never had ridiculous power creep...(sarcasm) GTFO my post if you don't know what you're talking about please.
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Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 16:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:yeah, because wow never had ridiculous power creep...(sarcasm) GTFO my post if you don't know what you're talking about please.
Way to take entirely the wrong end of entirely the wrong stick and run with it. |
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
185
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 16:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
Saile Litestrider wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:yeah, because wow never had ridiculous power creep...(sarcasm) GTFO my post if you don't know what you're talking about please.
Way to take entirely the wrong end of entirely the wrong stick and run with it. I got a chuckle out of this. |
Klown Walk
Fat People Lag IRL
98
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 17:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
You pretty much have to sacrifice dps to use 2 or 1 oversized on anything other than a bs, also neuts are more powerful now when there is no way for the ship to get cap anymore. A big tank doesn-Št matter if you can-Št deal dmg or have any cap left to do anything. |
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Zarnak Wulf
The Roaches
416
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 18:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
I'll leave this here.
Rokh of Ages: (for low-sec use)
High: Nuetron Blaster Cannon II x 8 Med: Prototype 100MN MWD X-Large Ancillary Booster x 2 Adaptive Invuln II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler Fleeting Propusion Inhibitor Low: MFS II x 3 TE II Internal Force Field Array Rigs: Processor Overclocking Unit EM Shield Rig Thermal Shield Rig
Hammerhead II x 5
1281 DPS tanked with one X-Large A. Booster running. 2509 DPS tanked with both running. Pimped out with damage implants - 1432 DPS with Void (12km optimal + 8.1km falloff) 1068 DPS with Null (22km optimal + 23km falloff) I have about 6 more days before Caldari BS 5 is done. It gets really sick once you add in boosters. |
Taurich Vorsel
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 18:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I'll leave this here.
Rokh of Ages: (for low-sec use)
High: Nuetron Blaster Cannon II x 8 Med: Prototype 100MN MWD X-Large Ancillary Booster x 2 Adaptive Invuln II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler Fleeting Propusion Inhibitor Low: MFS II x 3 TE II Internal Force Field Array Rigs: Processor Overclocking Unit EM Shield Rig Thermal Shield Rig
Hammerhead II x 5
1281 DPS tanked with one X-Large A. Booster running. 2509 DPS tanked with both running. Pimped out with damage implants - 1432 DPS with Void (12km optimal + 8.1km falloff) 1068 DPS with Null (22km optimal + 23km falloff) I have about 6 more days before Caldari BS 5 is done. It gets really sick once you add in boosters. hrrrrr MWD and invuln and cap hungry guns >_<
be careful Copine Callmeknau disappeared one day now we are left with Taurich Vorsel AKA BIZARRO COPE! |
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 18:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
Taurich Vorsel wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:I'll leave this here.
Rokh of Ages: (for low-sec use)
High: Nuetron Blaster Cannon II x 8 Med: Prototype 100MN MWD X-Large Ancillary Booster x 2 Adaptive Invuln II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler Fleeting Propusion Inhibitor Low: MFS II x 3 TE II Internal Force Field Array Rigs: Processor Overclocking Unit EM Shield Rig Thermal Shield Rig
Hammerhead II x 5
1281 DPS tanked with one X-Large A. Booster running. 2509 DPS tanked with both running. Pimped out with damage implants - 1432 DPS with Void (12km optimal + 8.1km falloff) 1068 DPS with Null (22km optimal + 23km falloff) I have about 6 more days before Caldari BS 5 is done. It gets really sick once you add in boosters. hrrrrr MWD and invuln and cap hungry guns >_< be careful And it can only manage three full cycles of the boosters max, less if you carry much of anything else in your cargohold. So that's 3 minutes of boosting and then you're a sitting duck. Honestly it's a pretty vulnerable ship, for all its bragging about EFT numbers. It could tear apart a buffer ship in a 1-on-1 with no special tactics or modules applied, but that's precisely what the ASBs are designed to do. |
Zarnak Wulf
The Roaches
416
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 18:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
It's a BS. It's meant to pulse it's MWD only and I'd probably want some support if I took it for a spin. There is no denying that a ship that spits out 1400 DPS and tanks close to 4500 DPS with the works (crystals, blue pill, tengu booster) is straight out nasty though.
That is part of the second point that I want to make. Caldari hybrid boats love these modules. They have alot of excess CPU as part of their grid that doesn't normally get used. I have used a Ferox with an X-L ASB and Ions and a web. It's a contender. The Eagle can fit the same- hell, I can shoehorn an X-L ASB onto a Moa as a comedy fit. These are viewed by most pilots as the weakest ships in the game and boosting them via a module I not a bad thing. |
Taurich Vorsel
9
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 20:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:It's a BS. It's meant to pulse it's MWD only and I'd probably want some support if I took it for a spin. There is no denying that a ship that spits out 1400 DPS and tanks close to 4500 DPS with the works (crystals, blue pill, tengu booster) is straight out nasty though. Yeh I figured you would be pulsing the MWD, people often forget though that it takes a huge chunk of your capacitor away fitting the thing I'd be seriously concerned about the cap endurance of that build I certainly wouldn't be fighting anything with neuts.
tbh if you have support, you should consider dropping the MWD for an injector if it will fit (one clip of 900's in the injector, one clip in the cargo). Use it as bait and let the enemy come to you, or alternatively just wait till your support has tackle and warp on top of them. No need for propmod in those situation. Solo you will most likely be forced to use an MWD to catch anything ofc Copine Callmeknau disappeared one day now we are left with Taurich Vorsel AKA BIZARRO COPE! |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
455
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 20:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
Welp the point of those fits it's exactly why targets should never come at range and unfortunately for them the silly BS can still apply a huge chunk of damage at 40km, this leaves a lot of room for picking targets and start by annihilating everything under Void/CN AM range. (I personally prefer CN AM since dps loss is ridiculous you don't get your tracking nerf and keep double range of Void) brb |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
529
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 21:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
Sweet, a BS MWD w/ no cap injector, that's a great fit you got there. |
Zarnak Wulf
The Roaches
417
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 23:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Sweet, a BS MWD w/ no cap injector, that's a great fit you got there.
It will get tested on SISSI before I spend isk on TQ. Thanks for caring though. |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
1148
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 23:26:00 -
[59] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I'll leave this here.
Rokh of Ages: (for low-sec use)
High: Nuetron Blaster Cannon II x 8 Med: Prototype 100MN MWD X-Large Ancillary Booster x 2 Adaptive Invuln II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler Fleeting Propusion Inhibitor Low: MFS II x 3 TE II Internal Force Field Array Rigs: Processor Overclocking Unit EM Shield Rig Thermal Shield Rig
Hammerhead II x 5
1281 DPS tanked with one X-Large A. Booster running. 2509 DPS tanked with both running. Pimped out with damage implants - 1432 DPS with Void (12km optimal + 8.1km falloff) 1068 DPS with Null (22km optimal + 23km falloff) I have about 6 more days before Caldari BS 5 is done. It gets really sick once you add in boosters. Cool fit, you'll get a 165k ehp buffer before you need to reload. A standard Rokh buffer fit will get about 125k ehp, if you have a web fitted to it. This huge difference is only seen in the battleship lineup, because XL shield extenders do not exist. The module is much more balanced across all other ship sizes. Those values of yours are also all overheated, in case anyone thinks that it is ridiculously, absurdly overpowered.
Fun fact: If that Rokh of yours receives less than 1250dps you will be able to survive your reload, and thus gain an extra 90k ehp buffer.
Can't stop the rokh! |
Taurich Vorsel
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 05:35:00 -
[60] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Mfume Apocal wrote:Sweet, a BS MWD w/ no cap injector, that's a great fit you got there. It will get tested on SISSI before I spend isk on TQ. Thanks for caring though. Just do it in style and get this instead Cheapfit for the hobo's that infest this forum
[Nightmare, ancil inject]
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Large 'Vehemence' Shockwave Charge Large 'Vehemence' Shockwave Charge
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400 X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400 Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Berserker II x2 Valkyrie II x2 Warrior II x1
---
There's a few variations, you can switch the TE for another heat sink (5% more dps), you can go for faction heat sinks, a named DCU, and drop a cpu rig for a thermal rig, you can switch smartbombs for neuts if you're feeling suicidal, you can switch SBA for invuln if you want less tank but more buffer. It's a very versatile ship, and I'm glad the ancil boosters have come into the game to turn the Nightmare (a mediocre PvE ship and terrible PvP ship) into an active tanking, pod killing, ECM drone murdering behemoth
And as with any faction ship, pimping it will get results. Just remember to not spend more on the fit than on the ship, this T2 version is quite affordable
---
edit: I just notice your rokh fit uses hammerheads not valkyries You're doing it wrong Copine Callmeknau disappeared one day now we are left with Taurich Vorsel AKA BIZARRO COPE! |
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