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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2010.04.06 21:40:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Liang Nuren I'd rather they made it faster and more agile and maybe increased its scan res. :)
-Liang
Nothing to add here(except a bit more base Cap would be nice).
While I was a big fan of 10% Damage + Falloff bonus before the projectile changes, with the changes to TEs the ship can archive a very good range now(and more important DPS at range). Combined with it's speed and utility it is actually a lot better than it looks in EFT(mostly by fitting a lot better in the meta game than other BS for forcing people into fights).
Reminds me quite a bit on how it was to use a solo BS pre QR.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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AmIDeadyet
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Posted - 2010.04.06 22:13:00 -
[32]
Ive flown a Tempest in fleet, and as much maligned as it is, i think it is a solid boat. It can do with 6 guns what some can do with 7-8. I like the bonuses, and even the high slot layout is fine with me, but the thing I wish for is a mid/low slot rework. Shift one mid to a low, or vice versa, and I think that will go a long way to defining the roll of the Tempest. With an extra low, you can field a decent armor tank and still have damage mods/TEs, if you took a low and increased a mid, you'd have a "decent" shield buffer capable ship with respectable dps. Right now its too gimped on either front to be considered better than anything else the Minmatar have to offer. More shields? Go Maelstrom. More armor? Go typhoon, and either ship will do more dps to boot. CCP just needs to define the ships role via a comprehendable slot layout.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.06 22:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Naomi Knight if matar were the weakest one I would be a matar "fanatic".... so gall/caldari need a boost thats all
Fortunately, I believe you on the first part. The part that's really confusing is that you constantly attack everyone despite them actually agreeing with you. I've been a vocal supporter of a Gallente boost since before the thought ever crossed your mind. You claim that I don't know my ****, but I argued in favor of both the Amarr *and* the Minmatar boosts... and they both got boosted. When I come to a thread, I come with facts about the game - you come with not-quite-clever snide remarks about anyone that disagrees even by degree.
News flash: the game isn't purely in black and white... just because something is more powerful here or there doesn't mean it's more powerful everywhere.
-Liang
Yeah and lets see where that 2 matar/amarr boost put us? Oh amarr/matar are being op if you compare them to gall/caldari. Thank you this is what we have needed... Not black and white? Werent you the one who said in fleet battle only ehp and dps matter and nothing else at a given range? And wanted a matar boost because minmatar battleships couldnt do as much dps/ehp as the amarr ones? Yes you were. Same here tempest doesnt have the best dps/ehp and suddenly it needs a boost, even if it has many other advantages over the other battleships.
Better speed/agility would put it into battlecruisers class with 75m3 drone bay, large weapons and heavy neut. Yeah it wouldnt be op at all... Btw it doesnt realy need better scan res the hurricanes are already alphaing nearly everything before anyone else can get a lock on the target ,we dont need a ship which does 2.5 times as much volley dmg.
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Lt Angus
Caldari the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.04.06 22:54:00 -
[34]
I love the new tempest, shame i can only fly them well on my alt please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.06 23:03:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Yeah and lets see where that 2 matar/amarr boost put us? Oh amarr/matar are being op if you compare them to gall/caldari. Thank you this is what we have needed...
Yeah because I was in charge of the exact boosts that needed delivered. The arguments all boiled down to: - Amarr Arguments; the Apoc/Prophecy/Omen/Maller (and to a lesser extent the Zealot) are all extremely poor ships. The reasons generally ranged from a lack of a damage bonus to a lack of fittings. The Pilgrim kinda got shafted on the NOS changes. CCP boosted them to be FOTM. - Minmatar: Pretty much as a rule the ships were crap, sans the Vagabond and Rapier [which got nerfed]. There were lots of ideas for fixing them - most of which were not as comprehensive as what we actually saw. I argued that CCP should tone lasers down or boost projectiles and hybrids. CCP boosted projectles to be roughly equal to lasers. - Gallente: Hybrids don't deal enough damage. Rails lack 10-15% damage, and blasters need 20%+ more damage with the way the current metagame is working out. - Caldari: Fix Roflkits, Caldari hybrids, and fittings on certain ships.
Quote: Not black and white? Werent you the one who said in fleet battle only ehp and dps matter and nothing else at a given range? And wanted a matar boost because minmatar battleships couldnt do as much dps/ehp as the amarr ones? Yes you were.
Yes, and I stand by it. And the funny thing is that Amarr is still better than Minmatar at fleet warfare. If you recall, I SAID THIS IS OK... Minmatar should focus on small gang warfare.
Quote: Same here tempest doesnt have the best dps/ehp and suddenly it needs a boost, even if it has many other advantages over the other battleships.
When are you going to learn to read? I haven't brought up DPS/EHP at all in this thread.
Quote: Better speed/agility would put it into battlecruisers class with 75m3 drone bay, large weapons and heavy neut. Yeah it wouldnt be op at all... Btw it doesnt realy need better scan res the hurricanes are already alphaing nearly everything before anyone else can get a lock on the target ,we dont need a ship which does 2.5 times as much volley dmg.
Yes, because Tempests and Hurricanes are totally taking over Eve. That's why when I looked at a recent killmail there were 2 Abaddons and 10 Armageddons and a Domi on it.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.04.06 23:11:00 -
[36]
Tempest main issue is less about individual capability but being overshadowed by its brothers in minmatar line.
I see 2 ways to easily fix it. Give it a bit more agility, as people said, making it the most agile battleship and the less massive. No need to be more agile or less heavy then the current most agile and less massive battleship. Make it weight as a Dominix and as agile as a scorpion (yes for god's sake look wich battleships are the most agile ones wtf?!!! )
Add a tiny bit more PG and would open up a lot of nice possibilities for the ship. Increase lock range a tiny bit and make its life easier in fleet (only a tiny bit is enough)
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2010.04.06 23:23:00 -
[37]
It's a good pirate ship. I like having a cap booster, tracking computer, web, MWD, and 24km point in the mids. 650mm II's and two heavy neuts in the highs. You can fit enough gank and tank in the lows and rigs to make it rakish with the two masts and all.
Some points that have not been brought up: AC have the best tracking. With a tracking computer it can easily hit cruisers and BC. At 340m signature radius other BS can't hit it for full damage as easily. The only smaller BS is the Typhoon at 320m. Two heavy nuets! It's vertical.
The problem I've had with the ship is when in fleet battles you have to fit it to conform. Every other BS seems to fit a fleet role better. A bigger complaint to me is that BS are worth so many points on a killboard. HACS which cost the same or more and aren't insurable seem to be worth less points then the BS. If it wasn't for that I'd bust out a tempest for limited roams more often.
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Demolishar
G-Force Enterprises Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.04.06 23:45:00 -
[38]
Tempest is FINE. 5 Midslots + Armor Tank + Insane Volley Damage + Great Base Scanres + Rarely primaried = awesome, killmail whoring, final blow stealing, durable Fleet BS.
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Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.04.06 23:52:00 -
[39]
rarely primaries? You mean the BS with least EHP on common fleets rarely primaried? The only reason to not primary tempests would be if the engagement is already further than 180 km that severely cripple the tempest damage already, making other battleships more relevant.
As some have said, tempest only need SLIGHT adjustments, very slight.
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MeBiatch
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Posted - 2010.04.07 00:55:00 -
[40]
update to op: page 1
Originally by: MeBiatch Edited by: MeBiatch on 07/04/2010 00:51:59 So i here there have been lots of people ragging on the tempy lately saying its still a broken ship... even after the projectile boost....
This is my idea that might fix the ship...
step 1: Add PG(ship is hurting as it is and needs some sort of pg slot to fit the BIG guns)
[EDIT}Step 2: one possible idea from Liang is to make is a bit faster/agile and increase its optimalrange/locktime
I think if CCP did this the ship would no longer be broken and would become very popular once again...
updated ship discription: The Tempest is one of the Republic Fleet's key vessels; a versatile gunship skillfull in the art of Guerrilla Warfare and capable of dishing out devastating damage with great effectiveness. A well-rounded squadron of Tempests has been proven time and time again to be an invaluable wild card in a fleet battle, one which opponents should ignore at their own peril.
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Demolishar
G-Force Enterprises Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.04.07 03:38:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Seishi Maru rarely primaries? You mean the BS with least EHP on common fleets rarely primaried? The only reason to not primary tempests would be if the engagement is already further than 180 km that severely cripple the tempest damage already, making other battleships more relevant.
I'm speaking from experience, not conjecture. Every fight I've been in, the Armageddons and Megathrons are the first to go down, followed closely by the Apocalypses and Abaddons, and the rest of the BSes are left for last.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.04.07 03:43:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf A bigger complaint to me is that BS are worth so many points on a killboard. HACS which cost the same or more and aren't insurable seem to be worth less points then the BS. If it wasn't for that I'd bust out a tempest for limited roams more often.
Proof positive that killboards cause brain damage..
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
CCP Shadow's Troll List. |
Kingwood
Amarr V.I.P Industries United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 03:55:00 -
[43]
The Tempest is much better than what it looks like in EFT. I am skilling Min BS 5 now because of this ship (Torps are on the agenda, though, for the Phoon).
It has speed and range over the Phoon, and much better speed over the Maelstrom. It might lose in the BS 1vs1 where everyone stays at 500m not moving and just blasting away, but its ability to move fast, deal good DPS and neut tacklers is something people tend to forget when looking at EFT figures.
This ship is the best BC in game, and excellent for Lowsec solo and small gang roaming. If anything, CCP should look at expanding this role and increasing agility/speed is something I would welcome very much.
I've only recently joined a small 0.0 corp, I do not know yet how it performs in the same solo/small gang role there (lol Dramiel gangs).
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.04.07 04:04:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kingwood This ship is the best BC in game
Freudian slip much? And yes a bit moar speed, agility and scan res would be quite nice as I am about to flip minnie bs to 5 on my combat alts.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
CCP Shadow's Troll List. |
Kingwood
Amarr V.I.P Industries United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 04:07:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Kingwood on 07/04/2010 04:10:30
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Kingwood This ship is the best BC in game
Freudian slip much? And yes a bit moar speed, agility and scan res would be quite nice as I am about to flip minnie bs to 5 on my combat alts.
No, was said on purpose.
Edit: I found a very nice vid yesterday of some Tempest footage by Tresta Rotnor, "Boat Violence 3". She flies it armor tanked but it shows what the Pest can do in the hands of a skillful pilot.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.07 06:18:00 -
[46]
hyperion sig res: 110
tempest sig res: 100
wasn't minmatar supposed to have some sorta big lock time advantage to make them better for hit and run? Ah well we never wanted that racial strength anyway.
------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.04.07 07:21:00 -
[47]
1) Tempest needs a more pronounced personality. Mael is a solid, slow brick of neat damage. Phoon is where versatility is at (for Minmatar). Tempest... wut? Something, probably not damage related, should happen to carve it a niche. And not just a "speed" etc. buff because that's just a buff but not a real personality.
2) About the claims about Minmatar ships being so good already etc. etc. Sadly much of the game is about capitals warfare, where Minmatar are laughable, the only saving grace being "it looks cool" or "it's vertical!". Quite makes up for the goodness at sub cap size, to know that the path you specialized into for a year has no real reason to be continued into capitals and you should have gone Amarr instead.
Quote:
Rarely primaried = awesome, killmail whoring, final blow stealing, durable Fleet BS.
Rarely primaried is because it's not relevant at classic long range battles, every FC I fleeted with, called for the other BSes first. Expecially Megas and Geddons.
Quote:
wasn't minmatar supposed to have some sorta big lock time advantage to make them better for hit and run? Ah well we never wanted that racial strength anyway.
We also did not want those target painters, our RP proxy enemies Caldari make the best use of that.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.07 07:58:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha We also did not want those target painters, our RP proxy enemies Caldari make the best use of that.
The Typhoon (the really good Minmatar BS) really likes its target painter.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.04.07 10:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/04/2010 08:15:40
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha We also did not want those target painters, our RP proxy enemies Caldari make the best use of that.
The Typhoon (the really good Minmatar BS) really likes its target painter.
Artillery likes painted targets as well.
Of course it's the minnie BS able to effectively employ missiles... but it's not exactly the rule for us afaik.
Also, artillery likes painted targets, but the general (ie BC, BS etc) ship minnie fit tends not to have enough slots for them. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Arrador
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:31:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/04/2010 08:15:40
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha We also did not want those target painters, our RP proxy enemies Caldari make the best use of that.
The Typhoon (the really good Minmatar BS) really likes its target painter.
Artillery likes painted targets as well.
Of course it's the minnie BS able to effectively employ missiles... but it's not exactly the rule for us afaik.
Also, artillery likes painted targets, but the general (ie BC, BS etc) ship minnie fit tends not to have enough slots for them.
Maybe if you stopped shield tanking your minnie ships - you'd find out what to do with those mid slots. :P
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Andrea Skye
Caldari The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:37:00 -
[51]
Tempest is awesome. Does not need anything changed.
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Ernesto DaSilva
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:55:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Arrador Maybe if you stopped shield tanking your minnie ships - you'd find out what to do with those mid slots. :P
Maybe Tracking Computers because the Armor Plates just kicked the Tracking Enhancers out of the lows? :P
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Torpir Lee
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.04.07 14:27:00 -
[53]
I like the Tempest. You can bring it on BC gangs and get great performance, and you can bring it on sniper fleets and laugh as you get amazing cap stable DPS on structures(that doesn't even scratch your ammo reserves), while maintaining solid to great sniping performance depending on how considerate your FC is. If you armor tank it, you get some nice bomb resistance due to the low sig radius as well.
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Hilaina
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:51:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Seishi Maru rarely primaries? You mean the BS with least EHP on common fleets rarely primaried? The only reason to not primary tempests would be if the engagement is already further than 180 km that severely cripple the tempest damage already, making other battleships more relevant.
FAIL... they aren't primaries because they arent as threatening look at it this way you have a pit-bull and a boarder collie both running at you both are going to bite you but you only have time to kill one before it happens. while yes, the boarder collie biting you isnt going to feel good in any way, its going to be a hell of a lot less damaging than the pit.
i think the pest could definitely use some slight improvements to its speed, agility, and targeting speed, but only slight to really bring out its potential and not make it overpowered. i personally think all minmi ships could do with having that back to a degree with a small reduction to damage and ehp. but then again whats the point of being fast and small if your going to have a big target painted on you and lead boots on your feet?
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Seishi Maru
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:49:00 -
[55]
You have reading fail. As I said tempest is only non threatening when is over a certain extreme range. At 150 km tempest deals FAR more damage than a sniper megatron.
LEarn the REAL capabilities of ships before stating crap.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.07 18:38:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Trader20 on 07/04/2010 18:43:26
Originally by: MeBiatch
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 06/04/2010 20:06:00
Originally by: Trader20 It's a battleship, trust me. Learn ur roles and shiptypes before posting
It may look like it when you show info, but try actually flying one. It doesn't perform anything like what I'd expect a battleship to perform like. It performs like a slightly oversize battlecruiser - and that's a great niche for it to be in. IMO, they should expand upon that niche. :)
-Liang
Ed: Bear in mind that I have all 4 racial battleships at 5... all but Amarr twice. :)
question? if you make it move faster and more agile... wont it make take the canes roll?
lol i could just imagine... ok people were going to a bc snipe gang... i want tempy's, harby's, brutix's and ferox...
ok here is the discription... The Tempest is one of the Republic Fleet's key vessels; a versatile gunship proficient at long-range bombardment and capable of dishing out specialized types of damage with great effectiveness. A well-rounded squadron of Tempests has been proven time and time again to be an invaluable wild card in a fleet battle, one which opponents should ignore at their own peril.
they would have to change the discription... cuss from what i read it looks like its supposed to be a long range fleet ship...
its a bastardised BC now... CCP can you please make Minmatar have 3 bs's?
thanks
I can see it now....
Random person: so I saw ur lol tempest killmail, wats up with the nano's/speedmods?
Liang: yea i speed tank my tempest, I make up bizare fits just to be different. I have every skill at lvl 5 so I know wat i'm doing.
Random person: u have no clue dude thats why ur in a lol alliance
I'd rather have some 1 day old noob who knows his ships roles then some vet cookie cutter fit rebel who is the definition of a "lolkm"
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.04.07 18:42:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Kingwood This ship is the best BC in game
Freudian slip much? And yes a bit moar speed, agility and scan res would be quite nice as I am about to flip minnie bs to 5 on my combat alts.
No, the Tempest is the best BC in the game, sort of how the Machariel is the best cruiser in the game ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 18:44:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 07/04/2010 18:45:55
Originally by: Trader20
I can see it now....
Random person: so I saw ur lol tempest killmail, wats up with the nano's/speedmods?
Liang: yea i speed tank my tempest, I make up bizare fits just to be different. I have every skill at lvl 5 so I know wat i'm doing.
Radom person: u have no clue dude thats why ur in a lol alliance
Comments: - I have lost a half dozen Tempests in my Eve career, and all of them because I insisted on treating it like a battleship. :) - There are extremely reasonable explanations for nano fitting a Tempest. Like not being forced to roll around with 150 of your buds in triple plated Geddons. Not that I expect you to understand the value of being able to evade poor situations better than other battleships, or even roll in BC gangs. - So pretty much everyone with experience flying the Tempest says that they treat it like a big BC, and you continue to try to make fun of it. - I can see that when your arguments fail you are reduced to ad hominem
Basically, my entire response to you can be summed up as: with a little bit of /facepalm
-Liang
Ed: And in case you missed it... flying a Tempest like that IS the cookie cutter fit these days. -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.07 18:57:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 07/04/2010 18:45:55
Originally by: Trader20
I can see it now....
Random person: so I saw ur lol tempest killmail, wats up with the nano's/speedmods?
Liang: yea i speed tank my tempest, I make up bizare fits just to be different. I have every skill at lvl 5 so I know wat i'm doing.
Radom person: u have no clue dude thats why ur in a lol alliance
Comments: - I have lost a half dozen Tempests in my Eve career, and all of them because I insisted on treating it like a battleship. :) - There are extremely reasonable explanations for nano fitting a Tempest. Like not being forced to roll around with 150 of your buds in triple plated Geddons. Not that I expect you to understand the value of being able to evade poor situations better than other battleships, or even roll in BC gangs. - So pretty much everyone with experience flying the Tempest says that they treat it like a big BC, and you continue to try to make fun of it. - I can see that when your arguments fail you are reduced to ad hominem
Basically, my entire response to you can be summed up as: with a little bit of /facepalm
-Liang
Ed: And in case you missed it... flying a Tempest like that IS the cookie cutter fit these days.
lol so much fail in this one
If ur in a gang of bs's (rr, camps, fleet, watever) wats the advangtages of being quicker then the rest of the gang? You have tackle, and the rest of ur bs "buds" will be going at the same pace as you, so the only reason I see to speed mod a bs is to A: run away or B: try to get lolkm of the month. If u want speed/mobility get in a hac/cruiser/af/frig/etc gang, u know the roles they were made for?
Be "different" all u want but ur making urself look like a fool. And the sad thing is u call urself a vet but I've seen noobs with more skills/common sense then u.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:10:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 07/04/2010 19:10:42
Originally by: Trader20
If ur in a gang of bs's (rr, camps, fleet, watever) wats the advangtages of being quicker then the rest of the gang?
Your logical (and perhaps reading comprehension) failure is that you assumed he would be in a gang of BSs. There are other Minmatar ships for that.
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