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Rawls Canardly
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Posted - 2010.04.07 07:37:00 -
[1]
Don't get me wrong, the myrmidon has an excellent tank capability. However, the drone control capacity is identical to a Vexor. Perhaps raising it by 5, 15, or even 20 points?
Example:
Current max DPS loadout(2 heavy, 2 med, 1 light)
+5 max dps loadout(2 heavy, 3 med)
+15 max dps loadout(3 heavy, 1 med, 1 light)
+20 max dps loadout(3 heavy, 2 med)
This would not increase the damage by so much as to turn it into the terror of lowsec it once was, but it would create a transitional drone boat, much like the jump from drake to raven. At present it's just a Navy Vexor that can carry a few spares, and tank well.
Thoughts?
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BlueMajere
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.04.07 07:45:00 -
[2]
preachin 2 the *****, i mean choir, m8
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Rawls Canardly
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Posted - 2010.04.07 07:57:00 -
[3]
perhaps we should bring this up to the council then, I'd like to use my myrm for more than a heavy tackler some day :)
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Oirienicsa
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2010.04.07 08:05:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Oirienicsa on 07/04/2010 08:06:14
The ships description is drones drones drones, it's only damage modifier is in its drones, aka it's a drone boat, what I'd love to see is 90 or 95 bandwidth for a rather unique slot that it has... a drone based BC... however I think the dronebay needs a little reworking as well to bring it in line with it's big brother the dominix, so something like 90-95 bandwidth and 175 dronebay...
TL;DR, make the myrm a jump between vexor and dominix like it should be.
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Jor Mah
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Posted - 2010.04.07 09:46:00 -
[5]
+5 to drone bandwith / bay per bc or gallente cruiser skill would make sense to me, tho i hear myrmi is fine as it is.
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Baneken
Gallente
Aseveljet
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 11:57:00 -
[6]
Give +10 bandwith per BC lvl and remove the useless repping bonus, that would give an option for 5 heavys/sentrys.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.07 12:54:00 -
[7]
One for gank, One for tank. Applies to all races.
If that is too hard to understand then your issues run deeper than perceiving the Myrmidon as underpowered/broken (which is isn't at any rate - most people would kill for 5 mids on an armour BC).
Were the BC's to be tweaked or outright redesigned I would much prefer that one was designed for fleets and the other as solo/small-gang .. as we see in the T2 variants.
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Mutant Caldari
Caldari
Psykotic Meat
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:02:00 -
[8]
I'd say get rid of the stupid ass bandwidth **** in the first place. The only thing I could see it countering was the 5 Hammerhead II's for a Taranis or something along those lines which would only really work if you plan on camping a gate or something similar for an extended period of time in or close to your home system.
Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it?
http://www.wi-alliance.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=32678
http://roadkill.igs-corp.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=32678 |
Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:16:00 -
[9]
.... you guys realize that the myrm is one of the best BCs in the game right?... You also realize that it has possibly the best variety of fitting options of any ship? all of them good.
I don't get what you are complaining about really...
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N Ano
Caldari
Onyx Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:46:00 -
[10]
or give all bc a 3rd bonus
drake 5% shield amount
myrmidon +10mbit
brutix +5% mwd speed
ect
(one can dream)
Damn I wish I had me a Chimera |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.07 14:50:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
One for gank, One for tank. Applies to all races.
Thats why i hate forums. Noobs that dont know what they are talking about.
Both ferox-drake and brutix-myrmidon got same tank bonus. And who considers a Cyclone a tank ?
With the xtra hp even the 'gank' BCs tanks better than the tier 1 'tank' bc.
Oh my ... why am i even bothering.
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
:other stuff:
:noob rage:
:true statment: And who considers a Cyclone a tank ?
:mostly true:
:more noob rage:
the cyclone can be tank fit... needs another mid and some extra CPU to be really bad ass, but xl booster + hg crystal set is hilarious. (this was one of the ships that was really helped by the scram buff)
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Poses
the cyclone can be tank fit... needs another mid and some extra CPU to be really bad ass, but xl booster + hg crystal set is hilarious. (this was one of the ships that was really helped by the scram buff)
Yes. Because it can tank when you have an high grade set in the head means its got a better tank than the hurricane.
Your another reason why I dont post on forums.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:52:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Wacktopia on 07/04/2010 15:53:54
The myrm is by no means a 'bad' ship. It's extremely versitile thanks to it's slot layout.
The rep bonus and pg to allow 2 or 3 reppers make it one of the few active armor tank pvp ships in the game.
You can even fit a nutty shield buffer to it.
The only down side is that bandwidth! With vexor at 75 and domi at 125, the person that didnt choose 100 as the obvious mid point needs putting against the wall.
The Answer: take away a hi slot, leaving 5 and give it 100 bandwidth. End of.  |
Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Poses
the cyclone can be tank fit... needs another mid and some extra CPU to be really bad ass, but xl booster + hg crystal set is hilarious. (this was one of the ships that was really helped by the scram buff)
Yes. Because it can tank when you have an high grade set in the head means its got a better tank than the hurricane.
Your another reason why I dont post on forums.
you frustrate me, i agreed with you and you rage...
so lets do this. The following are without any implants.
XL fit cyclone: 600 dps tank, 500 dps
Sheild buffer fit cane 630 dps
dual rep armor cane 320 dps
so, what is your point. The cane max gank fit 26% more dmg, max tank fit 47%.
The cyclone tanks far better then the max tank version, and the dps isn't that much worse then the max tank (and beats it for dps).
so srsly what the hell are you talking about? |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:00:00 -
[16]
Remember, 125mb with no spares on the Myrmidon is overpowered, but 125mb with tons of spares on the Ishtar is just fine.
The Myrmidon needs 5x heavies, period. It is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart, and this needs to be fixed.
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:08:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Poses on 07/04/2010 16:08:53
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Remember, 125mb with no spares on the Myrmidon is overpowered, but 125mb with tons of spares on the Ishtar is just fine.
The Myrmidon needs 5x heavies, period. It is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart, and this needs to be fixed.
actually everything being equal they get the same dps... all level 5s
oger2s in the ishtar
2 oger/2 hammer/1 hob in myrm
both have nutrons with CN anti matter and 2 mag stabs
bot get 743 dps
except the myrm gets substantially more ehp (especially since after fitting neutrons and an MWD you can't fit much tank)
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:15:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 07/04/2010 16:16:10
Originally by: Poses
Edited by: Poses on 07/04/2010 16:08:53
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Remember, 125mb with no spares on the Myrmidon is overpowered, but 125mb with tons of spares on the Ishtar is just fine.
The Myrmidon needs 5x heavies, period. It is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart, and this needs to be fixed.
actually everything being equal they get the same dps... all level 5s
Read my post more carefully and see if you can figure out why that isn't a good counter-argument.
Hint: all other BCs have more dps than the HAC, to compensate for the BC's much lower speed. It's a tradeoff that makes both HACs and BCs useful ships. However, in the case of the Myrmidon, the Ishtar (or Gila if you want to be really hard on the poor Myrmidon) is the clear winner.
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Read my post more carefully and see if you can figure out why that isn't a good counter-argument.
Hint: all other BCs have more dps than the HAC, to compensate for the BC's much lower speed. It's a tradeoff that makes both HACs and BCs useful ships. However, in the case of the Myrmidon, the Ishtar (or Gila if you want to be really hard on the poor Myrmidon) is the clear winner.
read my post where i said it cannot fit a tank, sure they get equal dps but to do it the ishtar needs to be point blank and be paper thin... its the deimost problem. As a result to engage in a maner that won't be certian death it will have less dps or no tank and it will die in a terrible fire.
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Zhilia Mann
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Remember, 125mb with no spares on the Myrmidon is overpowered, but 125mb with tons of spares on the Ishtar is just fine.
The Myrmidon needs 5x heavies, period. It is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart, and this needs to be fixed.
And here I thought I was the only one still fighting the good fight on this one.
Where can I join the insurgency?
And as an aside to be productive I have a story for younger players:
Once upon a time there was only one BC for each race. And frankly, they were good by the standards of that day. Even if most of us put missiles on our Feroxen.
Then, suddenly, there were four new BCs. And for the most part they obliterated the usefulness of the originals.
One of these beasts was called Drake. It has a lively story of its own, but that is not this story.
Another was called Myrmidon. And it was freaking vertical with a unique ability to field five bonused heavy (or sentry) drones and mount a tank but receive no benefit from gun bonuses. Sure, it was a little slow, and sure, Pottsey was passive tanking one two days after they hit market, but it was interesting.
The forums, though, were not happy. The most frequent slander was that it could fit "five bonused battleship-sized weapons".
The war dragged on.
And suddenly from on high, CCP decided to introduce (what I still consider as) a Massive Nerf. And it was called bandwidth.
Suddenly, there were no more Ishkurs with five Hammerheads. The EOS was r4ped and pillaged. And the Myrm was left as a slow PvE boat that could only really effectively field five medium drones (I'm sorry, the 2-2-1 Gallente EFT warrior dream only looks good on paper or in the hands of a very competent pilot).
Now we finally see people using triple-rep dual-injector setups and not dying quite as often as they used to. But the damage a Myrm can put out remains anemic. It might pass a Vexor on a good day.
And so yes, it needs fixing.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Poses
read my post where i said it cannot fit a tank, sure they get equal dps but to do it the ishtar needs to be point blank and be paper thin... its the deimost problem. As a result to engage in a maner that won't be certian death it will have less dps or no tank and it will die in a terrible fire.
And remind me again just how tank is relevant to the fact that the Myrmidon is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart?
Besides, if you want tank on a Myrmidon, you're just turning a slow ship into a really slow ship. At that point, you might as well just get a Dominix instead.
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Poses
read my post where i said it cannot fit a tank, sure they get equal dps but to do it the ishtar needs to be point blank and be paper thin... its the deimost problem. As a result to engage in a maner that won't be certian death it will have less dps or no tank and it will die in a terrible fire.
And remind me again just how tank is relevant to the fact that the Myrmidon is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart?
Besides, if you want tank on a Myrmidon, you're just turning a slow ship into a really slow ship. At that point, you might as well just get a Dominix instead.
Your whole argument is invalad
vaga, 2 dmg mods, perfet skills and 220mm ACs 530dps
'Cane, same 535 dps
cerb 3 BCS, HAMs 430 dps
drake 3 BCS, HAMs 450 dps (okay this one is a bit bigger)
in fact the only one where there is a large disparity is zealot and harb
so... yeah, your argument is invalid. BC with tank will beat a HAC with tank that it can catch, but that has more to do with EHP then anything else
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:34:00 -
[23]
Even if they gave the Myrmidon its 125m3 bandwidth back, which I want, I doubt I would still fly the ship until they fixed the center-of-view on the ship so I'm not staring at half ship half engines.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:48:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 07/04/2010 16:48:36
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
And suddenly from on high, CCP decided to introduce (what I still consider as) a Massive Nerf. And it was called bandwidth.
Great history post. 
I don't think bandwidth was a bad idea per se, but a few ships including the Mrym were slapped inordinately hard with it.
I do think however, that when you take the tier 2 BCs as a slice of the game, it's some of the best balancing CCP has done. They're all useful, desirable, versatile, and a great bang for the buck. (Nevermind that they completely trampled over their little brothers.)
If the Myrm got a bit of a bump in the bandwidth department, we might have the closest thing this game has seen to perfect balance.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Poses
vaga, 2 dmg mods, perfet skills and 220mm ACs 530dps
'Cane, same 535 dps
Why are we talking about failfits?
Hint: Vagabond has 5x guns, damage + ROF bonus, 5x light drones, 1x un-bonused launcher. Hurricane has 6x guns, damage + ROF bonus, 5x light drones, 2x un-bonused launchers, an extra low slot for gyros, and more grid/cpu to fit bigger guns. If you are only getting a difference of 5 dps between the two, you are doing something very wrong.
Quote:
cerb 3 BCS, HAMs 430 dps
drake 3 BCS, HAMs 450 dps (okay this one is a bit bigger)
Why are you ignoring the Drake's drone bay in those numbers? The actually difference is considerably larger.
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Poses
vaga, 2 dmg mods, perfet skills and 220mm ACs 530dps
'Cane, same 535 dps
Why are we talking about failfits?
Hint: Vagabond has 5x guns, damage + ROF bonus, 5x light drones, 1x un-bonused launcher. Hurricane has 6x guns, damage + ROF bonus, 5x light drones, 2x un-bonused launchers, an extra low slot for gyros, and more grid/cpu to fit bigger guns. If you are only getting a difference of 5 dps between the two, you are doing something very wrong.
Quote:
cerb 3 BCS, HAMs 430 dps
drake 3 BCS, HAMs 450 dps (okay this one is a bit bigger)
Why are you ignoring the Drake's drone bay in those numbers? The actually difference is considerably larger.
Sometimes I just <3 Merin. 
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Poses
you frustrate me, i agreed with you and you rage...
so lets do this. The following are without any implants.
XL fit cyclone: 600 dps tank, 500 dps
Sheild buffer fit cane 630 dps
dual rep armor cane 320 dps
so, what is your point. The cane max gank fit 26% more dmg, max tank fit 47%.
The cyclone tanks far better then the max tank version, and the dps isn't that much worse then the max tank (and beats it for dps).
so srsly what the hell are you talking about?
lol
Hmm ..
EFT FTW !!!!!?!?!?!?!
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
:stuffs:
Fine I'll concede this argument, however I don't think that an ishtar would beat a myrm in a situation when a vaga also wouldn't beat a 'cane or zealot beat a harb.
(i.e. control range and avoid incoming dps)
But if you really want the myrm to have a bigger drone band width you aren't getting 125. Its still one of the best BCs in the game and that would be game breaking (like it was pre nerf)
Originally by: trevor warps
lol
Hmm ..
EFT FTW!!!!!?!?!?!?!
if you cannot find a better argument then that, then i think you lose. The simple fact is, there isn't a real difference between teir 1 and teir 2 BC in terms of tanking ability for most races (original point) but the cyclone gets substantially more tank then the 'cane and fairly respectable gank. It gets this with a surprising degree of cap instability. but that wasn't your argument, it was;
"And who considers a Cyclone a tank ?"
I have proven that the cyclone when fit properly can tank, and all you have to say is
"EFT FTW!!!!!?!?!?!?!"
your contempt for these forums, though well placed in some cases, is apparently in the face of your own ridiculous stupidity. So please, learn game mechanics, get some experience then come back and maybe your idiocy won't be so obvious.
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Poses
your contempt for these forums, though well placed in some cases, is apparently in the face of your own ridiculous stupidity. So please, learn game mechanics, get some experience then come back and maybe your idiocy won't be so obvious.
Yes read my edit and remove that stick from your ass while your at it.
BTW you PROOVED nothing. You only threw a few random numbers in the air.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Poses
But if you really want the myrm to have a bigger drone band width you aren't getting 125. Its still one of the best BCs in the game and that would be game breaking (like it was pre nerf)
The Myrmidon pre-nerf was only "game breaking" if the game we're talking about is EFT.
In reality, the Myrmidon wasn't all that powerful. Sure, it had awesome EFT dps, but you were limited to Ogre IIs that can't even catch frigates or cruisers, and you had no spares to replace them. Killing one was easy, just stay at range (so they can't scoop/re-launch to insta-repair the drones) and pop the drones. Once that was done, you were left with a ship with decent tank and poor dps, IOW, an easy kill.
Of course EFT whiners couldn't think of any tactic besides "MWD up to point-blank range and activate weapons", so the Myrmidon was "overpowered" and they whined and cried until it was nerfed.
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