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Rawls Canardly
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Posted - 2010.04.07 07:37:00 -
[1]
Don't get me wrong, the myrmidon has an excellent tank capability. However, the drone control capacity is identical to a Vexor. Perhaps raising it by 5, 15, or even 20 points?
Example:
Current max DPS loadout(2 heavy, 2 med, 1 light)
+5 max dps loadout(2 heavy, 3 med)
+15 max dps loadout(3 heavy, 1 med, 1 light)
+20 max dps loadout(3 heavy, 2 med)
This would not increase the damage by so much as to turn it into the terror of lowsec it once was, but it would create a transitional drone boat, much like the jump from drake to raven. At present it's just a Navy Vexor that can carry a few spares, and tank well.
Thoughts?
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BlueMajere
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.04.07 07:45:00 -
[2]
preachin 2 the *****, i mean choir, m8
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Rawls Canardly
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Posted - 2010.04.07 07:57:00 -
[3]
perhaps we should bring this up to the council then, I'd like to use my myrm for more than a heavy tackler some day :)
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Oirienicsa
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2010.04.07 08:05:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Oirienicsa on 07/04/2010 08:06:14
The ships description is drones drones drones, it's only damage modifier is in its drones, aka it's a drone boat, what I'd love to see is 90 or 95 bandwidth for a rather unique slot that it has... a drone based BC... however I think the dronebay needs a little reworking as well to bring it in line with it's big brother the dominix, so something like 90-95 bandwidth and 175 dronebay...
TL;DR, make the myrm a jump between vexor and dominix like it should be.
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Jor Mah
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Posted - 2010.04.07 09:46:00 -
[5]
+5 to drone bandwith / bay per bc or gallente cruiser skill would make sense to me, tho i hear myrmi is fine as it is.
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Baneken
Gallente
Aseveljet
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 11:57:00 -
[6]
Give +10 bandwith per BC lvl and remove the useless repping bonus, that would give an option for 5 heavys/sentrys.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.07 12:54:00 -
[7]
One for gank, One for tank. Applies to all races.
If that is too hard to understand then your issues run deeper than perceiving the Myrmidon as underpowered/broken (which is isn't at any rate - most people would kill for 5 mids on an armour BC).
Were the BC's to be tweaked or outright redesigned I would much prefer that one was designed for fleets and the other as solo/small-gang .. as we see in the T2 variants.
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Mutant Caldari
Caldari
Psykotic Meat
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:02:00 -
[8]
I'd say get rid of the stupid ass bandwidth **** in the first place. The only thing I could see it countering was the 5 Hammerhead II's for a Taranis or something along those lines which would only really work if you plan on camping a gate or something similar for an extended period of time in or close to your home system.
Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it?
http://www.wi-alliance.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=32678
http://roadkill.igs-corp.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=32678 |
Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:16:00 -
[9]
.... you guys realize that the myrm is one of the best BCs in the game right?... You also realize that it has possibly the best variety of fitting options of any ship? all of them good.
I don't get what you are complaining about really...
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N Ano
Caldari
Onyx Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:46:00 -
[10]
or give all bc a 3rd bonus
drake 5% shield amount
myrmidon +10mbit
brutix +5% mwd speed
ect
(one can dream)
Damn I wish I had me a Chimera |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.07 14:50:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
One for gank, One for tank. Applies to all races.
Thats why i hate forums. Noobs that dont know what they are talking about.
Both ferox-drake and brutix-myrmidon got same tank bonus. And who considers a Cyclone a tank ?
With the xtra hp even the 'gank' BCs tanks better than the tier 1 'tank' bc.
Oh my ... why am i even bothering.
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
:other stuff:
:noob rage:
:true statment: And who considers a Cyclone a tank ?
:mostly true:
:more noob rage:
the cyclone can be tank fit... needs another mid and some extra CPU to be really bad ass, but xl booster + hg crystal set is hilarious. (this was one of the ships that was really helped by the scram buff)
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Poses
the cyclone can be tank fit... needs another mid and some extra CPU to be really bad ass, but xl booster + hg crystal set is hilarious. (this was one of the ships that was really helped by the scram buff)
Yes. Because it can tank when you have an high grade set in the head means its got a better tank than the hurricane.
Your another reason why I dont post on forums.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:52:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Wacktopia on 07/04/2010 15:53:54
The myrm is by no means a 'bad' ship. It's extremely versitile thanks to it's slot layout.
The rep bonus and pg to allow 2 or 3 reppers make it one of the few active armor tank pvp ships in the game.
You can even fit a nutty shield buffer to it.
The only down side is that bandwidth! With vexor at 75 and domi at 125, the person that didnt choose 100 as the obvious mid point needs putting against the wall.
The Answer: take away a hi slot, leaving 5 and give it 100 bandwidth. End of.  |
Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Poses
the cyclone can be tank fit... needs another mid and some extra CPU to be really bad ass, but xl booster + hg crystal set is hilarious. (this was one of the ships that was really helped by the scram buff)
Yes. Because it can tank when you have an high grade set in the head means its got a better tank than the hurricane.
Your another reason why I dont post on forums.
you frustrate me, i agreed with you and you rage...
so lets do this. The following are without any implants.
XL fit cyclone: 600 dps tank, 500 dps
Sheild buffer fit cane 630 dps
dual rep armor cane 320 dps
so, what is your point. The cane max gank fit 26% more dmg, max tank fit 47%.
The cyclone tanks far better then the max tank version, and the dps isn't that much worse then the max tank (and beats it for dps).
so srsly what the hell are you talking about? |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:00:00 -
[16]
Remember, 125mb with no spares on the Myrmidon is overpowered, but 125mb with tons of spares on the Ishtar is just fine.
The Myrmidon needs 5x heavies, period. It is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart, and this needs to be fixed.
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:08:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Poses on 07/04/2010 16:08:53
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Remember, 125mb with no spares on the Myrmidon is overpowered, but 125mb with tons of spares on the Ishtar is just fine.
The Myrmidon needs 5x heavies, period. It is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart, and this needs to be fixed.
actually everything being equal they get the same dps... all level 5s
oger2s in the ishtar
2 oger/2 hammer/1 hob in myrm
both have nutrons with CN anti matter and 2 mag stabs
bot get 743 dps
except the myrm gets substantially more ehp (especially since after fitting neutrons and an MWD you can't fit much tank)
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:15:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 07/04/2010 16:16:10
Originally by: Poses
Edited by: Poses on 07/04/2010 16:08:53
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Remember, 125mb with no spares on the Myrmidon is overpowered, but 125mb with tons of spares on the Ishtar is just fine.
The Myrmidon needs 5x heavies, period. It is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart, and this needs to be fixed.
actually everything being equal they get the same dps... all level 5s
Read my post more carefully and see if you can figure out why that isn't a good counter-argument.
Hint: all other BCs have more dps than the HAC, to compensate for the BC's much lower speed. It's a tradeoff that makes both HACs and BCs useful ships. However, in the case of the Myrmidon, the Ishtar (or Gila if you want to be really hard on the poor Myrmidon) is the clear winner.
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Read my post more carefully and see if you can figure out why that isn't a good counter-argument.
Hint: all other BCs have more dps than the HAC, to compensate for the BC's much lower speed. It's a tradeoff that makes both HACs and BCs useful ships. However, in the case of the Myrmidon, the Ishtar (or Gila if you want to be really hard on the poor Myrmidon) is the clear winner.
read my post where i said it cannot fit a tank, sure they get equal dps but to do it the ishtar needs to be point blank and be paper thin... its the deimost problem. As a result to engage in a maner that won't be certian death it will have less dps or no tank and it will die in a terrible fire.
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Zhilia Mann
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Remember, 125mb with no spares on the Myrmidon is overpowered, but 125mb with tons of spares on the Ishtar is just fine.
The Myrmidon needs 5x heavies, period. It is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart, and this needs to be fixed.
And here I thought I was the only one still fighting the good fight on this one.
Where can I join the insurgency?
And as an aside to be productive I have a story for younger players:
Once upon a time there was only one BC for each race. And frankly, they were good by the standards of that day. Even if most of us put missiles on our Feroxen.
Then, suddenly, there were four new BCs. And for the most part they obliterated the usefulness of the originals.
One of these beasts was called Drake. It has a lively story of its own, but that is not this story.
Another was called Myrmidon. And it was freaking vertical with a unique ability to field five bonused heavy (or sentry) drones and mount a tank but receive no benefit from gun bonuses. Sure, it was a little slow, and sure, Pottsey was passive tanking one two days after they hit market, but it was interesting.
The forums, though, were not happy. The most frequent slander was that it could fit "five bonused battleship-sized weapons".
The war dragged on.
And suddenly from on high, CCP decided to introduce (what I still consider as) a Massive Nerf. And it was called bandwidth.
Suddenly, there were no more Ishkurs with five Hammerheads. The EOS was r4ped and pillaged. And the Myrm was left as a slow PvE boat that could only really effectively field five medium drones (I'm sorry, the 2-2-1 Gallente EFT warrior dream only looks good on paper or in the hands of a very competent pilot).
Now we finally see people using triple-rep dual-injector setups and not dying quite as often as they used to. But the damage a Myrm can put out remains anemic. It might pass a Vexor on a good day.
And so yes, it needs fixing.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Poses
read my post where i said it cannot fit a tank, sure they get equal dps but to do it the ishtar needs to be point blank and be paper thin... its the deimost problem. As a result to engage in a maner that won't be certian death it will have less dps or no tank and it will die in a terrible fire.
And remind me again just how tank is relevant to the fact that the Myrmidon is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart?
Besides, if you want tank on a Myrmidon, you're just turning a slow ship into a really slow ship. At that point, you might as well just get a Dominix instead.
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Poses
read my post where i said it cannot fit a tank, sure they get equal dps but to do it the ishtar needs to be point blank and be paper thin... its the deimost problem. As a result to engage in a maner that won't be certian death it will have less dps or no tank and it will die in a terrible fire.
And remind me again just how tank is relevant to the fact that the Myrmidon is the only BC that can't out-gank its HAC counterpart?
Besides, if you want tank on a Myrmidon, you're just turning a slow ship into a really slow ship. At that point, you might as well just get a Dominix instead.
Your whole argument is invalad
vaga, 2 dmg mods, perfet skills and 220mm ACs 530dps
'Cane, same 535 dps
cerb 3 BCS, HAMs 430 dps
drake 3 BCS, HAMs 450 dps (okay this one is a bit bigger)
in fact the only one where there is a large disparity is zealot and harb
so... yeah, your argument is invalid. BC with tank will beat a HAC with tank that it can catch, but that has more to do with EHP then anything else
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:34:00 -
[23]
Even if they gave the Myrmidon its 125m3 bandwidth back, which I want, I doubt I would still fly the ship until they fixed the center-of-view on the ship so I'm not staring at half ship half engines.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:48:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 07/04/2010 16:48:36
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
And suddenly from on high, CCP decided to introduce (what I still consider as) a Massive Nerf. And it was called bandwidth.
Great history post. 
I don't think bandwidth was a bad idea per se, but a few ships including the Mrym were slapped inordinately hard with it.
I do think however, that when you take the tier 2 BCs as a slice of the game, it's some of the best balancing CCP has done. They're all useful, desirable, versatile, and a great bang for the buck. (Nevermind that they completely trampled over their little brothers.)
If the Myrm got a bit of a bump in the bandwidth department, we might have the closest thing this game has seen to perfect balance.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Poses
vaga, 2 dmg mods, perfet skills and 220mm ACs 530dps
'Cane, same 535 dps
Why are we talking about failfits?
Hint: Vagabond has 5x guns, damage + ROF bonus, 5x light drones, 1x un-bonused launcher. Hurricane has 6x guns, damage + ROF bonus, 5x light drones, 2x un-bonused launchers, an extra low slot for gyros, and more grid/cpu to fit bigger guns. If you are only getting a difference of 5 dps between the two, you are doing something very wrong.
Quote:
cerb 3 BCS, HAMs 430 dps
drake 3 BCS, HAMs 450 dps (okay this one is a bit bigger)
Why are you ignoring the Drake's drone bay in those numbers? The actually difference is considerably larger.
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2010.04.07 16:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Poses
vaga, 2 dmg mods, perfet skills and 220mm ACs 530dps
'Cane, same 535 dps
Why are we talking about failfits?
Hint: Vagabond has 5x guns, damage + ROF bonus, 5x light drones, 1x un-bonused launcher. Hurricane has 6x guns, damage + ROF bonus, 5x light drones, 2x un-bonused launchers, an extra low slot for gyros, and more grid/cpu to fit bigger guns. If you are only getting a difference of 5 dps between the two, you are doing something very wrong.
Quote:
cerb 3 BCS, HAMs 430 dps
drake 3 BCS, HAMs 450 dps (okay this one is a bit bigger)
Why are you ignoring the Drake's drone bay in those numbers? The actually difference is considerably larger.
Sometimes I just <3 Merin. 
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Poses
you frustrate me, i agreed with you and you rage...
so lets do this. The following are without any implants.
XL fit cyclone: 600 dps tank, 500 dps
Sheild buffer fit cane 630 dps
dual rep armor cane 320 dps
so, what is your point. The cane max gank fit 26% more dmg, max tank fit 47%.
The cyclone tanks far better then the max tank version, and the dps isn't that much worse then the max tank (and beats it for dps).
so srsly what the hell are you talking about?
lol
Hmm ..
EFT FTW !!!!!?!?!?!?!
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Poses
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
:stuffs:
Fine I'll concede this argument, however I don't think that an ishtar would beat a myrm in a situation when a vaga also wouldn't beat a 'cane or zealot beat a harb.
(i.e. control range and avoid incoming dps)
But if you really want the myrm to have a bigger drone band width you aren't getting 125. Its still one of the best BCs in the game and that would be game breaking (like it was pre nerf)
Originally by: trevor warps
lol
Hmm ..
EFT FTW!!!!!?!?!?!?!
if you cannot find a better argument then that, then i think you lose. The simple fact is, there isn't a real difference between teir 1 and teir 2 BC in terms of tanking ability for most races (original point) but the cyclone gets substantially more tank then the 'cane and fairly respectable gank. It gets this with a surprising degree of cap instability. but that wasn't your argument, it was;
"And who considers a Cyclone a tank ?"
I have proven that the cyclone when fit properly can tank, and all you have to say is
"EFT FTW!!!!!?!?!?!?!"
your contempt for these forums, though well placed in some cases, is apparently in the face of your own ridiculous stupidity. So please, learn game mechanics, get some experience then come back and maybe your idiocy won't be so obvious.
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Poses
your contempt for these forums, though well placed in some cases, is apparently in the face of your own ridiculous stupidity. So please, learn game mechanics, get some experience then come back and maybe your idiocy won't be so obvious.
Yes read my edit and remove that stick from your ass while your at it.
BTW you PROOVED nothing. You only threw a few random numbers in the air.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Poses
But if you really want the myrm to have a bigger drone band width you aren't getting 125. Its still one of the best BCs in the game and that would be game breaking (like it was pre nerf)
The Myrmidon pre-nerf was only "game breaking" if the game we're talking about is EFT.
In reality, the Myrmidon wasn't all that powerful. Sure, it had awesome EFT dps, but you were limited to Ogre IIs that can't even catch frigates or cruisers, and you had no spares to replace them. Killing one was easy, just stay at range (so they can't scoop/re-launch to insta-repair the drones) and pop the drones. Once that was done, you were left with a ship with decent tank and poor dps, IOW, an easy kill.
Of course EFT whiners couldn't think of any tactic besides "MWD up to point-blank range and activate weapons", so the Myrmidon was "overpowered" and they whined and cried until it was nerfed.
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Krist Valentine
Amarr
British Armoured Division
The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.04.07 17:56:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Quote:
cerb 3 BCS, HAMs 430 dps
drake 3 BCS, HAMs 450 dps (okay this one is a bit bigger)
Why are you ignoring the Drake's drone bay in those numbers? The actually difference is considerably larger.
urmm i believe hes ignoring the drone bay cause that would disprove his point xxx
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.04.07 18:47:00 -
[32]
give it 100 or 125mb and maybe reduce the number of gun it can field
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Ceraci
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:08:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Yeah im a winner.
No, you're clearly an idiot. |
Last Wolf
Rage For Order
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:26:00 -
[34]
Who puts blasters on a myrm? <3 Autocannons.
Also, look up Dru Essex. He has amazing results with the "nerfed" myrm.
Oh no you don't!
Incoming witty reply, ETA: 300 seconds! |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:36:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ceraci
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Yeah im a winner.
No, you're clearly an idiot.
Nope. You are tho ... Since you can't read or detect obvious sarcasm meant to insult somebody else.
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Boss Lemming
Gallente
BOUNTY. HUNTER. MINING. EXSPLORATION. CORPORATION.
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Edited by: Trevor Warps on 07/04/2010 19:37:10
Originally by: Ceraci
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Yeah im a winner.
No, you're clearly an idiot.
Nope. You are tho ... Since you can't read or detect obvious sarcasm meant to insult somebody else.
You are YET another reason why I hate these forums. Too many ****ing noobs.
Have you ever thought that maybe there is a reason everybody except for you is a noob?
As in: you're dumb.
Originally by: Alchemist's Alt
I stopped mining because you mean pirates kept blowing me up.[...] now I am doing all the blowing up. Shadow
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Zhilia Mann
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:42:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
In reality, the Myrmidon wasn't all that powerful. Sure, it had awesome EFT dps, but you were limited to Ogre IIs that can't even catch frigates or cruisers, and you had no spares to replace them.
[pedant]I'm pretty sure the arguments were waged on Quickfit.[/pedant]
But yes, the same ideas apply. The Myrm is a slow armor tank that pretty much has to use a non-hybrid high slot weapon system so as not to get laughed off the field.
It used to be an active armor tanky compliment to the Ishtar and a valid stepping stone towards the Dominix.
It is by far the most useless tier 2 BC. In many situations it is outclassed by a Brutix and somewhat competitive with the other tier 1s.
At this time, there is no valid reason for a new pilot focused on drones to bother training for a BC. At all. Yes, the triple rep dual injector fit can do interesting things in the right hands, but given the skill load those hands could and should be flying both a Dominix and an Ishtar first.
The Myrm is broken. It has one gimped bonus and one bonus gimped by bandwidth.
And what's more, as Merin said, it's not like everyone and their cousin would simply field five 25mb drones. There are good reasons to carry a flight of lights. Not having the option, though, is ludicrous. The Myrm wasn't OP when it came out and it's simply underpowered now.
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:55:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Trevor Warps on 07/04/2010 19:56:14
Originally by: Boss Lemming
Have you ever thought that maybe there is a reason everybody except for you is a noob?
As in: you're dumb.
Nah .. I do think that ppl get too easily their panties in a bunch tho ... I am very sorry ... I didn't want to hurt your girly feelings ... need a hug ?
All I'm doing is pointing out EFT warriors and clueless people trying to give clues ... because if I don't your noob ass will read it and think it is true.
I'm like working FOR the noobs, noob.
Also I don't think everybody is a noob, just you 3 guys so far today.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:58:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
And what's more, as Merin said, it's not like everyone and their cousin would simply field five 25mb drones. There are good reasons to carry a flight of lights. Not having the option, though, is ludicrous. The Myrm wasn't OP when it came out and it's simply underpowered now.
Tbh: the 125m3 incarnation of the Myrm back in the day scoop&redeploy returned the drones with full shields and so on was OP compared to the alternatives. A ton of things changed since then, including a web nerf and so on.
Still, the current iteration is lacking imo, since it's got one bonus which is only useful in a certain type of fit (and for the really serious tank you better have access to drugs), and 75m3 is a bit too little. The ship in full gank mode just lacks that extra bit of DPS up close.
Sure, there are fun fits for it, but making it a more focused droneboat at expense of the rep bonus and a turret or two would yield both a more drone-oriented ship and a very well balanced one.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Crest Cutty
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Posted - 2010.04.07 20:11:00 -
[40]
What we really need are medium sentries. Better tracking, worse range/dps. Think this would make the myrm a reasonable step between vexor and domi. 15 bandwith, 20 m3, t2 damage round what t1 large sentries currently do.
Capitalize on it's ability to sit there and tank a ton of damage. Useful step for lvl 2-3 missions/engaging frigs+crusier+bc's in gangs. Give vexors a drone speed bonus and myr a drone range bonus while dropping mining yield bonus? (makes a good step between medium sentries in a myrm and large's in a ishtar?) |
Serend
Gallente
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.04.08 22:21:00 -
[41]
Medium sentries: excellent idea! (Why didn't I think of that?)
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Cor Aidan
Shore Leave
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Posted - 2010.04.08 22:51:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Crest Cutty
What we really need are medium sentries. Better tracking, worse range/dps. Think this would make the myrm a reasonable step between vexor and domi. 15 bandwith, 20 m3, t2 damage round what t1 large sentries currently do.
Capitalize on it's ability to sit there and tank a ton of damage. Useful step for lvl 2-3 missions/engaging frigs+crusier+bc's in gangs. Give vexors a drone speed bonus and myr a drone range bonus while dropping mining yield bonus? (makes a good step between medium sentries in a myrm and large's in a ishtar?)
Medium sentries are an interesting idea - but how on earth are they going to put the Myrm into a useful place above a Vexor, parallel with an Ishtar, and below a Dominix? Without a bandwidth change, a Myrm could field three of these Medium sentries, but it can already field three regular sentries so what would be the point?
I'd personally like to see 100mbit bandwidth, since that is an obvious intermediary step between normal cruiser drone boats and the Dominix. Maybe a 200m3 drone bay (after all, the Arbitrator has 150m3 and it's just a cruiser. We won't count the Ishtar because it is, of course, special).
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.08 22:57:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Cor Aidan
Medium sentries are an interesting idea - but how on earth are they going to put the Myrm into a useful place above a Vexor, parallel with an Ishtar, and below a Dominix? Without a bandwidth change, a Myrm could field three of these Medium sentries, but it can already field three regular sentries so what would be the point?
Err, 15 x 5 = 75, so the Myrmidon could use 5x of the proposed medium sentries.
But I don't think that is the solution, as it still leave the Myrmidon out-gunned by the Ishtar and completely outclassed by the Dominix (which could also use medium sentries if you want) in the tank "role" that is the only thing anyone uses the Myrmidon for.
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Cor Aidan
Shore Leave
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Posted - 2010.04.08 23:40:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Err, 15 x 5 = 75, so the Myrmidon could use 5x of the proposed medium sentries.
Awesome, the forums ate my previous attempt at a reply with "an internal error."
Short version: 5x of the proposed T2 medium sentries would actually have more damage than you'd get from four T2 sentries (50x1x5 > 50x1.2x4) (given 100mbit bandwidth). Plus the Vexor could also field the medium sentries with no spares, and there'd be no change between the status of the Ishtar and Myrm.
While medium sentries are an interesting idea in their own right, I don't see that they would help the Myrmidon "find its place" in the battlecruiser lineup.
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Orar Ironfist
Incarnation of Evil
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Posted - 2010.04.09 00:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Cor Aidan
Medium sentries are an interesting idea - but how on earth are they going to put the Myrm into a useful place above a Vexor, parallel with an Ishtar, and below a Dominix? Without a bandwidth change, a Myrm could field three of these Medium sentries, but it can already field three regular sentries so what would be the point?
Err, 15 x 5 = 75, so the Myrmidon could use 5x of the proposed medium sentries.
But I don't think that is the solution, as it still leave the Myrmidon out-gunned by the Ishtar and completely outclassed by the Dominix (which could also use medium sentries if you want) in the tank "role" that is the only thing anyone uses the Myrmidon for.
I dont think medium sentries would be fair at all as the vexor would most likely be able to use them which would make the vexor awesomely op lol. i agree that the myrm needs fixing though bringing it back to 125m3 bandwith isnt the way to go (i flew one of the originals no matter your argument it was op i used to solo gank any other bc even some bs/cs).
Also heads up your sig makes me want to beat you in the face with something heavy (ingame)
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Tobias Xiaosen
Gallente
TX Holdings Company
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Posted - 2010.04.09 01:27:00 -
[46]
I just feel obligated to post here since the Myrmidon is my favorite ship...
When it comes down to how well the ship performs, I don't think the issue at heart is solely the problem of the Myrmidon itself, but ties into how Gallente are right now are generally UP as a whole.
Specifically for the Myrm, I find it kinda stupid that even though it doesn't get a bonus for guns, it performs better with either lasers and especially projectiles. Pretty pathetic that for a race based around hybrids that a ship that isn't obligated to use them automatically performs better without them.
When it comes down to the drone issue, I agree that giving the Myrm a bonus to bandwidth up to 100 would be beneficial, but wouldn't entirely fix the problem. Being that it relies on an active tank which makes it so slow, I find the single biggest problem with the ship is actually its capacitor. It simply can not recharge fast enough or have enough cap overall to make the ship overtly useful.
The idea about medium sentries is pretty cool idea, and would work well with a Myrm. But as said before, it wouldn't solve the problems with the ship.
Still though, I think some of you may be exaggerating just how "useless" the Myrm is. It has a great slot layout, isn't locked into using failhybrids, can put out decent DPS and run a good tank, even with the bandwidth nerf. Before it was just plain OP. I love the ship. I wouldn't bother with it if I thought it was useless.
~
Originally by: Cthulhu ftghan
Keyboards are destructible. Much more so when used as a projectile.
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Ryan Starwing
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Posted - 2010.04.09 02:22:00 -
[47]
Here is something for you to know heavy drones are big and slow, and so those will not be able to attack small ships well. So wait till those heavies are like 10 km from the myrm and you should be able to pop 1 or 2 of them before the myrm is able to recall them removing alot of its dps. Also the myrm cant carry any spares and drones are most of its dps.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
SRS Industries
SRS.
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Posted - 2010.04.09 03:36:00 -
[48]
I would personally love to see the "medium sentries" with the 15mb bandwidth suggested. Somebody make a proposal thread so I can support it!
Regarding high-sec mining:
Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr
3-4 million ISK/hr is perhaps .15 0r .20 US$/hr; not quite prison wages and you are around less honest people.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.04.09 06:01:00 -
[49]
Just increase the drone bonus to 15% and keep bandwith at 75.
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Iamid Ichabod
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Posted - 2010.04.09 17:28:00 -
[50]
To through another idea out there ... instead of changing dps, add a NOS bonus, so NOS always drains/returns cap (ie pre NOS nerf). This may allow MWD tanky fits and 2-2-1 drone drops?
NOTE: Tbo I don't pvp much (at all really) so no idea on balance, but always bothered me Myr got hit by 3-4 nerfs in a row NOS (perma active tanking), Bandwidth, Nanoish fits (all those lows), Blasters/other short range high dps (via web nerf). Also, bothered me Gallante has no drone bonused recon ships, so don't mind borrowing other races normal ewar bonuses for a BC ship. |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.09 17:39:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Iamid Ichabod
NOTE: Tbo I don't pvp much (at all really) so no idea on balance
Yeah, if you have no idea dont try to give ideas.
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Iamid Ichabod
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Posted - 2010.04.09 19:52:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Iamid Ichabod
NOTE: Tbo I don't pvp much (at all really) so no idea on balance
Yeah, if you have no idea dont try to give ideas.
For a person who claimed earlier in this to not post alot you sure do post a lot. Perhaps you should stop posting/reading.  See your logic above  |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.09 20:16:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Iamid Ichabod
For a person who claimed earlier in this to not post alot you sure do post a lot. Perhaps you should stop posting/reading. See your logic above
 Your better at forum pvp than game balancing thb
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Grut
The Protei
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Posted - 2010.04.09 20:20:00 -
[54]
Swap the drone bonus to hybrids.
125mb bandwidth
remove 1 turret slot.
Fixed.
Kinsy > deadman you
there?
Kinsy > are either of us in
pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless
[ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Oramin
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Posted - 2010.04.09 20:33:00 -
[55]
Or the bandwidth could be reduced to 50 and the drone damage bonus could be increased to 12.5%/level.
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Rawls Canardly
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Posted - 2010.04.09 21:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Oramin
Or the bandwidth could be reduced to 50 and the drone damage bonus could be increased to 12.5%/level.
This would actually WEAKEN the myrmidon. Maybe reducing the vexor's bandwidth to 50?
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MWDrive
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Posted - 2010.04.09 21:34:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Rawls Canardly
Originally by: Oramin
Or the bandwidth could be reduced to 50 and the drone damage bonus could be increased to 12.5%/level.
This would actually WEAKEN the myrmidon. Maybe reducing the vexor's bandwidth to 50?
actully it isnt bad idea... just 12,5% would be too low... give it 20% maybe... 25% ?... dont know... doing math in my head... anyway, damage output stays the same (or slightly increased?) but you get more space for reserve/utility drones and useing medium drones means they get to target faster, better tracking etc...
though, then vexor also needs to be redesigned :) |
DearMotherOfGod
Tim and Sasha Savings and Loans
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:09:00 -
[58]
Edited by: DearMotherOfGod on 09/04/2010 22:10:31
Since the nerf i've only flown the myrm once and found the experience quite underwhelming, tbh I never understood what was so op about the 125mb myrm cept for the way nos worked at the same time(tho the same could be said for the domis/typhoons of that age).
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Iamid Ichabod
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:12:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Originally by: Iamid Ichabod
For a person who claimed earlier in this to not post alot you sure do post a lot. Perhaps you should stop posting/reading. See your logic above
Your better at forum pvp than game balancing thb
Meh, was mostly a rant anyway.  (Myr was my 2nd fav boat to fly, vertical  ) |
Celia Therone
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Posted - 2010.04.10 00:54:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Celia Therone on 10/04/2010 00:54:47
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane
I would personally love to see the "medium sentries" with the 15mb bandwidth suggested. Somebody make a proposal thread so I can support it!
Imho, make medium sentries 20mb and up the myrmidon to 100 bandwidth. That way you aren't letting the vexor field a full 5 of them. I like the vexor, flew one a lot, and I don't think it needs more of a drone dps boost.
Edit: And up the myrmidon's bay a little more too, depending on the size of medium sentries.
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Lani Sun
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Posted - 2010.04.10 08:19:00 -
[61]
This. Originally by: Poses
.... you guys realize that the myrm is one of the best BCs in the game right?... You also realize that it has possibly the best variety of fitting options of any ship? all of them good.
I don't get what you are complaining about really...
The Myrm is already one of, if not the best solo, small gang BC and you want to give it more gank? WTF!
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Desudes
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Posted - 2010.04.10 09:13:00 -
[62]
Think the idea is to make it more then a tanked vexor
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creone
Gallente Isk Relocation Services
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Posted - 2010.04.10 12:57:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Baneken
Give +10 bandwith per BC lvl and remove the useless repping bonus, that would give an option for 5 heavys/sentrys.
Somebody has obviously not flown a Triple rep myrm recently. killed a geddon in a dual rep version a while back and the geddon wasnt fail fit completely either.
keep the rep bonus change the bandwidth.
Linkage
guess who he was shooting the whole time....
If at first you dont succeed maybe you just SUCK!!!!!
[url=http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=creone][img]http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/signature.php/s |
Karma InnRuin
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Posted - 2010.04.10 14:06:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Mutant Caldari
I'd say get rid of the stupid ass bandwidth **** in the first place. The only thing I could see it countering was the 5 Hammerhead II's for a Taranis or something along those lines which would only really work if you plan on camping a gate or something similar for an extended period of time in or close to your home system.
Personally I have fond memories of my 5 Ogre IIs and my Ishkur!
As much as it pains me to say it, the Myrm is fine as it is. Any more gank, combined with what is effectively a very good tank could potentially overpower the ship.
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Tobias Xiaosen
Gallente
TX Holdings Company
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Posted - 2010.04.10 15:49:00 -
[65]
Like I said earlier, some of you are making a bigger issue out of this then there actually is. The Myrmidon is a fine ship as is. Sure you could argue it is a bit UP, but most Gallente ships are right now anyway.
If you are worried about an unbalanced BC, why dont you take a look at the Prophecy instead. I hear that thing is worthless as anything but a bait ship (no personal experience with the ship though so Im just going on what Ive heard about it)
~
Originally by: Cthulhu ftghan
Keyboards are destructible. Much more so when used as a projectile.
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