Originally by: Peter Powers

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on request of one of the donators - pie charts for the total values have been added.

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:09:47
Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:06:04
funny the whining.

Well how can the NC expect to be wining if they are on the defence all the time? They dont even attack their enemy POSs. They are loosing the eco war alredy. Surelly they can see that loosing the eco war in EVE is loosing the war! It will happen the same as with the Pathetic Legion. Keep loosing moons then demoralized then move to empire space. Is anyone sees this pattern yet?

At the end of all it does not really matters how many ships are killed or not (exception would be to kill 300 + capitals would slow down the advance)...What matters is that you dont loose the eco war. Once you loose that, the stampeed begins...Surelly they are clever enough to know that?

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Originally by: SirMolle

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and Waagaa is wearing skirts.

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Originally by: Murauke

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:09:47
Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:06:04
funny the whining.

Well how can the NC expect to be wining if they are on the defence all the time? They dont even attack their enemy POSs. They are loosing the eco war alredy. Surelly they can see that loosing the eco war in EVE is loosing the war! It will happen the same as with the Pathetic Legion. Keep loosing moons then demoralized then move to empire space. Is anyone sees this pattern yet?

At the end of all it does not really matters how many ships are killed or not (exception would be to kill 300 + capitals would slow down the advance)...What matters is that you dont loose the eco war. Once you loose that, the stampeed begins...Surelly they are clever enough to know that?

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As I posted earlier how does several mooons affect eco war? "at the end of it all it does not really matter how many ships are killed or not" lol wake up, thats what it is all about. without ships..no fighting dumbass...

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 12:04:26

Originally by: Murauke

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:09:47
Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:06:04
funny the whining.

Well how can the NC expect to be wining if they are on the defence all the time? They dont even attack their enemy POSs. They are loosing the eco war alredy. Surelly they can see that loosing the eco war in EVE is loosing the war! It will happen the same as with the Pathetic Legion. Keep loosing moons then demoralized then move to empire space. Is anyone sees this pattern yet?

At the end of all it does not really matters how many ships are killed or not (exception would be to kill 300 + capitals would slow down the advance)...What matters is that you dont loose the eco war. Once you loose that, the stampeed begins...Surelly they are clever enough to know that?

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As I posted earlier how does several mooons affect eco war? "at the end of it all it does not really matter how many ships are killed or not" lol wake up, thats what it is all about. without ships..no fighting dumbass...

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You would excuse me...but i think the "dumbass" is you. Do you not think that alliance as large as they dont have an effective ship replacement program? They probably can build 3 or 5 for every you destroy. Cap ships is different thought. If they didnt had an effective replacement, they would have lost the Pathetic Legion and pets ages ago but they didnt. So really its does not really matter how many ships you loose as long as the overall objective is been won. Its like the old russian history. They kept throuwing ppl into the front line, no matter how many die, at the end there is a brake throught.

Also you cant really build ships without POS minerals. They help a ton in production of tech 2 ships. So loosing moons, loose more capability to produce them at a faster rate.

And at the end IT and their allies still have their moons. Its only the NC thats loosing theirs. Its only the NCs space thats been herassed and not of the SC. This is an easy moral victory. The SC pets are safe and happy, the NC pets will start to feel the pinch very soon i think.

Those are my thoughts...

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Originally by: Murauke

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 12:04:26

Originally by: Murauke

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:09:47
Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:06:04
funny the whining.

Well how can the NC expect to be wining if they are on the defence all the time? They dont even attack their enemy POSs. They are loosing the eco war alredy. Surelly they can see that loosing the eco war in EVE is loosing the war! It will happen the same as with the Pathetic Legion. Keep loosing moons then demoralized then move to empire space. Is anyone sees this pattern yet?

At the end of all it does not really matters how many ships are killed or not (exception would be to kill 300 + capitals would slow down the advance)...What matters is that you dont loose the eco war. Once you loose that, the stampeed begins...Surelly they are clever enough to know that?

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As I posted earlier how does several mooons affect eco war? "at the end of it all it does not really matter how many ships are killed or not" lol wake up, thats what it is all about. without ships..no fighting dumbass...

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You would excuse me...but i think the "dumbass" is you. Do you not think that alliance as large as they dont have an effective ship replacement program? They probably can build 3 or 5 for every you destroy. Cap ships is different thought. If they didnt had an effective replacement, they would have lost the Pathetic Legion and pets ages ago but they didnt. So really its does not really matter how many ships you loose as long as the overall objective is been won. Its like the old russian history. They kept throuwing ppl into the front line, no matter how many die, at the end there is a brake throught.

Also you cant really build ships without POS minerals. They help a ton in production of tech 2 ships. So loosing moons, loose more capability to produce them at a faster rate.

And at the end IT and their allies still have their moons. Its only the NC thats loosing theirs. Its only the NCs space thats been herassed and not of the SC. This is an easy moral victory. The SC pets are safe and happy, the NC pets will start to feel the pinch very soon i think.

Those are my thoughts...

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No ships no fighting!

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Originally by: Peter Powers

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o/ folks,
i just added a few charts today, for people who like it a bit more
visual than numbers (alot of people where asking me in chats and other forums for this)
(yes im reading more then this, trying to get more input on how to imrpove)

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Originally by: Peter Powers

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about the "1st of april" discussion:
I was thinking about the date and when to start quite a bit before we launched the northern-crusade website, because i knew no matter what date i pick there would be discussion. At first my favorite was to start tracking at launch-day, but then alot of people would have complained about the 10 days before that.
Putting the date before a the day that the invasion started might be in favour for the defending forces (not sure i havent run the numbers), but a bit unorthodox too, and i dont see where to draw the line then.
The Decision was made, and it will stay as it is.

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Originally by: Peter Powers

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About the color discussion:
Blue/Red is a classic color scheme for display of sides in military conflicts, i dont see why i should use something else - Im sure had i made the attacking side pink and the defending side brown, then there would have been complains about brown being a negative color - seriously guys, this website is not about colors.

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Originally by: Peter Powers

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We where discussing a name for the domain on EVSCOs irc channel a few days ago, and pretty much all we could come up with was pretty lame - all circus/clow related stuff would not give credit to all of the attackers, and we did not want to use terms used for previous wars making it more distinctive.

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Originally by: Peter Powers

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[...] most where using SC - which is not only quite lame, but also not accurate (Ev0ke for example is not a southern entity and not all southern major alliances are involved), so looking at the name of the site i believe crusaders is quite a good fit for the name.

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Originally by: Murauke

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I have no emotional attachment to this game and i'm in it for enjoyment.

I'd much rather see SOV drop because bills cant be paid, fleet numbers dropping, and ships un-properly fit before you start claiming the ECO war has already been won.

Its been good fun when i've managed to be there, something the game has needed for a long time. But passive income has been milked and milked for a long time do you not think these alliances are sitting on billions of isk already, on both sides?

But an interesting opinion i would like to make is, how much "eco strain" is being put on the attackers? Numbers on both sides have peaked may be a sign of strain, boredom or anticipation of the new patch.

We know our territory, we are the taliban. :D

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Originally by: Grigo

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rage

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Originally by: Dirala

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....

Originally by: Peter Powers

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About the color discussion:
Blue/Red is a classic color scheme for display of sides in military conflicts, i dont see why i should use something else - Im sure had i made the attacking side pink and the defending side brown, then there would have been complains about brown being a negative color - seriously guys, this website is not about colors.

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This is very true. But, red is also on all Killboards, and in pretty much every Movie :) the color of the enemy when you look at those type of stats is red as well.
This looks to me like, blue as in BoB/IT kinda color they always had on sovmap. And red, well, red the enemy as you see it on every killboard and so on. Nice thinking. :)
Sorry, this looks also a bit biased to me.
better make it Any other Color, even pink would be better. :) You are right when you say it's not about color. But the colors you chose make a bad impression, design does help to make a site trustworthy.

...

Cheers Dirala

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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Oh for the love of....Peter, please..Just change the colors around. Make us (IT etc etc) Red, and them (NC) Blue. Be done with this stupid overanalytical nonsense.
Honestly why you even mentioned colors to begin with is beyond me. Wheres the smiley thats banging its head into a wall when I need it.

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 13:32:47

Originally by: Murauke

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I have no emotional attachment to this game and i'm in it for enjoyment.

I'd much rather see SOV drop because bills cant be paid, fleet numbers dropping, and ships un-properly fit before you start claiming the ECO war has already been won.

Its been good fun when i've managed to be there, something the game has needed for a long time. But passive income has been milked and milked for a long time do you not think these alliances are sitting on billions of isk already, on both sides?

But an interesting opinion i would like to make is, how much "eco strain" is being put on the attackers? Numbers on both sides have peaked may be a sign of strain, boredom or anticipation of the new patch.

We know our territory, we are the taliban. :D

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Without a doubt that both sit on billions of isk but so did PL and now look where they are. I like they way you avoid the question thought.
And yes without a doubt there is a need for the new patch to lower the lag fiasco.
The eco strain is for now low on both sides. Cos its only getting started. I am sure that lots of the SC logistics are been moved still and will be for some time. Once they establish their logistic in the borders then they boost kicks in.
Also you mention soooo much the killing of ships but you forget the POSs loss. Each is worth billions in isk. And they are not easelly replaced XD

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Originally by: Murauke

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The only winner at the moment is CCP and the ship manufactures because i sure hope they are learning a lot from the massive lag and grid load issue's.

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Originally by: Lord TGR

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Originally by: Murauke

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The only winner at the moment is CCP and the ship manufactures because i sure hope they are learning a lot from the massive lag and grid load issue's.

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You'd think they should be able to see what the problem is with all these fights, but I'm not convinced until I see progress. The grid load issues definitely need fixing, especially with the new "max 10 AU further from the sun than the most distant elestial" 'fix' they're implementing. That's certainly not going to **** over attackers even more than it already is.

Hell, I lost a ship a while back because I lagged out or whatever after I'd loaded grid after warping to a gate. And that was with what, 100-200 in system, tops, mostly blue.

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Originally by: Dirala

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better make it Any other Color, even pink would be better. :) You are right when you say it's not about color. But the colors you chose make a bad impression, design does help to make a site trustworthy.

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Originally by: Dirala

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And what about the credit for the defenders? I'm pretty sure nobody ever thought about that. So again, this sounds very much biased.

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Originally by: Dirala

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Especially because you don't wanne change a little bit of it. (which actually would make your work more accepted)

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Originally by: Dirala

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Anyways, I got a question too.
Regarding the ISK kill/loss: You take modules into account? And when you pull kills from other boards, how is the ISK value determined. because on the IT killboard, the Wyvern loss for example is way less ISK as on the eve-kill board. And that is because all the faction modules on the IT Killboard are worth nothing.

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Originally by: foksieloy

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Suggestion:

Add total numbers (character wise) for each alliance on the lists. And a grand total for Crusaders and NC.

Just so people would understand what clash this is. :>

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Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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Edited by: Meno Theaetetus on 13/04/2010 01:20:08

Originally by: Rover Vitesse

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Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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I'm mainly just disappointed that a group of people trying to provide a professional service would act in such a biased way, I mean the name aside, the NC is shown as red and the SC is blue.

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I notice you have an issue with the colours, and am not sure what this would be in an Eve context. Are you upset that Red = Amarr or Blue = Caldari ?

Are you British; upset that this is politicised and Blue = Conservative or Red = Labour ?

I am assuming that you are upset that Red = Warsaw Pact (which hasn't been a threat to your western decadence for almost twenty years) and NATO = Blue ? If this is the case then I suggest you take your prejudicial outrage elsewhere.

Just as a point of interest, until the 1950s the UK used Red for British Forces (what else considering the colour of the Army!) and only switched when it became clear that the Warsaw Pact were the "new enemy".

To get round the issue of upsetting ex-WP forces now within NATO, it is becoming trendy to use Orange as Enemy Forces. Perhaps the Dutch don't get offended.

Meno, I expect you're the same type of person who gets upset when those boards used in classrooms are called a Blackboard.

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You serious?

Perhaps you are, well there is this game called 'EvE Online' or 'Internet Spaceships' or 'Lag Online' or 'Session Timers Online' and there is a thing called the standings system. In this 'Standings System' there is a way to make those on your side, or aligned to you appear 'Blue' and those against you or your enemy 'Red'. If your interested they do 15 day trials.

Seriously though, the blackboard has been oppressed by the evil whiteboard for too long.

@peter - I therefore DEMAND that NC be set pink, and no I'm really not joking.

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Originally by: Grigo

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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So, you're saying that the killboards that this board draws it's stats from are inaccurate? It's a simple database, you know. If you feel that your mathematical and statistical know-how surpasses that of the admins of the stat-feeding killboards, feel free to take it up with them. This aggregate killboard just compiles the stats that the other killboards lists.

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just off the top of my head i can point out at least 4 large errors that the killbord you are pulling information from has. coming here and whit the "here are the exact stas" and then going "feel free to take it up with them" is not the way to do stuff
Just try to remove a fake mail and see what happens whit the stats(alliance/corp/personal), and how fast it is reposted from rss feed.

Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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It's spelled "whine", and yes, you do have a reason to whine. This aggregate killboard competently dispels the myth that the NC is winning.

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lol ok if u say so btw what are the lottery numbers as apparently u have a very evolved sence to see the future and read people minds. and the killbord stats that u have presented are only part of the actual story, but i dont aspect anything more from someone that is
1) red
2) very active CAOD poster

i do not see your point as checking WN and CO2 KB i have found just a couple of km's from SC , no large battles, and whit the active campaign from CO2 and molles's speech there is no doubt they are on your side. but then again i will have more luck reasoning whit a wall then you aparently.

Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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My RL background tells me that you're wrong.

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my 13 years of back end web developing and 2 master degrees in mathematics and computer engineering say otherwise. but o wait i am only trained to code smart software i have no idea of kb's....right?...right?

Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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@peter - I therefore DEMAND that NC be set pink, and no I'm really not joking.

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i second that

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:09:47
Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:06:04
funny the whining.

Well how can the NC expect to be wining if they are on the defence all the time? They dont even attack their enemy POSs. They are loosing the eco war alredy. Surelly they can see that loosing the eco war in EVE is loosing the war! It will happen the same as with the Pathetic Legion. Keep loosing moons then demoralized then move to empire space. Is anyone sees this pattern yet?

At the end of all it does not really matters how many ships are killed or not (exception would be to kill 300 + capitals would slow down the advance)...What matters is that you dont loose the eco war. Once you loose that, the stampeed begins...Surelly they are clever enough to know that?

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Originally by: Dr Ngo

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People need to stop talking about the 'eco war' like both sides don't have isk coming out of their collective asses. Nobody is shooting pos's to deprive the other side of their income, it's to disrupt their infrastructure. The fact remains that the losses on both sides so far are pretty much chump change to these guys.

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Originally by: Regulottus

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Has TRAPS stopped pvping and turned into a forum-warrior corp??
Looking at your corp killboard you guys seem to have died.

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Heck pod everyone you pirates, Get off the forums and go kill someone!

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