Originally by: Daedhead

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Edited by: Daedhead on 11/04/2010 20:49:24
OUR K/D RATIO!!!!!

edit: if this board was meant to be objective it wouldn't be called "Northern Crusade" and everyone south of Vale/Cloud Ring would be on the "Crusaders" side but I'm sure you won't let that get in the way of the circle jerk

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Originally by: Depili

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How are you calculating the stats? Do you simply take all kills/losses from the involved alliances and use that or do you only count kills made by the enemy alliances to the target alliances?

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Originally by: Vuk Lau

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Seriously, if u guys are so an-al about kill/death ratio, at least have some decency to be partially objective in it, and make that list as it should be (standings.morsus-mihi.org). There are few more blues we have outside the list (some of the on list are nothing but renters but ok), but there are also, more then few IT/ROL pets operating in the area, being heavily involved in whole North Crusade and influencing it.

Not that you are well known as honorable (referring to whole SC), but if you want to show people the real results (for the ones who needs it) feel free to poke me and I will give you complete list for both sides (impartial one).

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Originally by: Spike Spiegle

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Just out of curiousity how does this system work if a kill has members of both sides on it (both friendlys and hostiles) does that count or get removed?

you know from smart bombs and bombs and stuff?

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Originally by: Spike Spiegle

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Just out of curiousity how does this system work if a kill has members of both sides on it (both friendlys and hostiles) does that count or get removed?

you know from smart bombs and bombs and stuff?

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Originally by: ArdMinBG

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Edited by: ArdMinBG on 10/04/2010 11:14:42
Here is the next report/statistics made by me regarding the ongoing war between SC and NC.

The source data come again from dotlan (http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/X-7OMU/kills).
This time eve counter shows 506/155 ships/pods killed respectively and the data on killboard are for 470/170 killed ships/pods which makes data more representative for the complete picture. Still its funny to see more reported pod kills then what actually happened :)

The score after two days ongoing fights is:
NC lost 300 ships&pods for estimate value of 20,9 billion ISK
SC lost 345 ships&pods for estimated value of 22 billion ISK

Discuss.

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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But, this makes it much more difficult to claim that you're winning when you're not.

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Originally by: RLCHANCE

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Edited by: RLCHANCE on 11/04/2010 23:04:40
Edited by: RLCHANCE on 11/04/2010 23:01:36

NC is Winning on cap kills i think :P


And a Nutrul Party Should be doing this as u are in the attacking force to the NC [I thinks] so how do we no your doing things fearly

this si War and Pestilence real status :) http://sick.evekb.co.uk/?a=home

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Originally by: RLCHANCE

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Edited by: RLCHANCE on 11/04/2010 23:19:31


NC is Winning on cap kills i think :P


And a Nutrul Party Should be doing this as u are in the attacking force to the NC [I thinks] so how do we no your doing things fearly

this si War and Pestilence real status :) http://sick.evekb.co.uk/?a=home

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Originally by: Daedhead

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Edited by: Daedhead on 11/04/2010 20:49:24
OUR K/D RATIO!!!!!

edit: if this board was meant to be objective it wouldn't be called "Northern Crusade" and everyone south of Vale/Cloud Ring would be on the "Crusaders" side but I'm sure you won't let that get in the way of the circle jerk

(10:01:12) (frst) i know this must be hard for you
(10:01:18) (frst) but this has been happening for a long time
(10:01:20) (frst) for a reason
(10:01:20) (Karbowiak) lol
(10:01:24) (Karbowiak) what reason
(10:01:31) (Karbowiak) besides making the alliance look like Goon v2 ?
(10:01:45) (frst) because they dont fight correctly
(10:01:54) (Karbowiak) NC dont fight correctly?
(10:01:54) (frst) it has been proven
(10:01:57) (frst) time and again
(10:02:04) (frst) no dip****
(10:02:14) (Karbowiak) not that i care, but - we got our asses handed to us a fair few times sofar, lol
(10:02:22) (frst) what the ****
(10:02:23) (Karbowiak) im here for the fights, thats it
(10:02:25) (frst) why would you not care
(10:02:28) (frst) you better care
(10:02:34) (frst) and if youre here for the fights
(10:02:36) (Karbowiak) its a game man, lol
(10:02:38) (frst) then shut the **** up in local
(10:02:41) (frst) ^^
(10:02:46) (Karbowiak) and nope
(10:02:46) (frst) if i get called primary
(10:02:49) (frst) like i do
(10:02:51) (Karbowiak) local is win
(10:02:54) (frst) and i have a god tank
(10:02:59) (frst) they made the wrong choice
(10:03:03) (frst) if people are busy being ****ed off
(10:03:05) (frst) just like you
(10:03:13) (frst) then they are not making proper battle decisions
(10:03:17) (frst) so take you, being IT
(10:03:19) (frst) and multiply it
(10:03:23) (frst) by 100
(10:03:29) (frst) considering what i say is directed at them
(10:03:36) (Karbowiak) what..
(10:03:43) (frst) if you can get the **** over your local god savior bull****
(10:03:46) (Karbowiak) so, wait
(10:03:50) (Karbowiak) you spamming local with ****
(10:03:52) (Karbowiak) makes us fight better
(10:03:54) (Karbowiak) and NC fight worse
(10:03:59) (Karbowiak) eventho NC are killing our caps left and right
(10:04:07) (frst) i just got here
(10:04:10) (Karbowiak) so, local > killing caps ?
(10:04:20) (frst) and ive been in eve for a long time, and yes, absolutely
(10:04:23) (frst) in the past
(10:04:28) (Karbowiak) HAHAHAHA
(10:04:29) (frst) it has ****ed people we fight off enough
(10:04:34) (frst) it has mattered
(10:04:39) (frst) so if you cant learned to deal with it
(10:04:43) (frst) that's youre problem
(10:05:00) (frst) i mean, youre in IT and you had a petition fit
(10:05:03) (Karbowiak) so, even if we lost 5 titans
(10:05:06) (Karbowiak) it wouldnt matter
(10:05:10) (Karbowiak) cause we got the local smacktalking highground ?
(10:05:16) (Karbowiak) yeah, let me lol
(10:05:27) (frst) done with you
(10:05:32) (Karbowiak) thank god
(10:05:53) (Karbowiak) i could go out and dig a hole, and then look through the dirt and find worms more clever than you
(10:06:18) (frst) good one
(10:06:20) (frst) send it to local
(10:06:31) (Karbowiak) naw, not that kinda person
(10:06:34) (Karbowiak) but good talk

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Originally by: RLCHANCE

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lolz = D i got told


still NC killed more caps :)

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Originally by: tadijka

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Pick ME! Pick ME!
We lost MS by....NC
That counts or no? If not im quiting eve ( yes, you can take my stuff )

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Originally by: Karbowiak

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Without further ado, i present you
Killboard link removed.Applebabe

It updates daily during the downtime, so have your mails posted to by then Killboard link removed.Applebabe

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Originally by: Karbowiak

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People have been asking for a way to see how the fighting between the SC and NC have been going.

So EVSCO in collaboration with Peter Powers have decided to do something about this.

At this stage its very basic, but features will be added along the way.

Without further ado, i present you
Killboard link removed.Applebabe

It updates daily during the downtime, so have your mails posted to by then Killboard link removed.Applebabe

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Originally by: Setsuko NuKinni

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This is all fine and dandy, but you should focus on reducing the downtime of your killboards first tbh, they're always glitching.

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Originally by: Karbowiak

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Originally by: Setsuko NuKinni

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This is all fine and dandy, but you should focus on reducing the downtime of your killboards first tbh, they're always glitching.

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Can you recall a time in the past 3-4 weeks its been down? (Rather, AFTER we upgraded to EDK3 - besides the initial downtime).

I cant - neither can any of the alert scrips i have running (Lets put it like this, every 2 minutes services are checked - and if something is funky my iPhone goes nuts with girl'ish screams) Sofar - "she" hasnt screamed yet

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Originally by: Karbowiak

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Here are some rules if your corp/alliance is not added to the list.
1. you have to be blue to either IT or MM/RZR

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Originally by: Blazde

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Originally by: Karbowiak

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Here are some rules if your corp/alliance is not added to the list.
1. you have to be blue to either IT or MM/RZR

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You know as well as I do that you can be working with alliances without being blue to them. BoB certainly had a big history of doing exactly that in the past, and it's happened in very similar circumstances to now such as when NC + RSF + Tortuga were assaulting GBC. Obviously it's not neccesary to blue entities working on completely seperate fronts. So if you want this to have any legitimacy you need to make it 'Anyone defending the North' vs 'Anyone attacking the North' and not make it arbitrarily IT-centric. It's not too hard to do that in an impartial way.

Add to Crusaders:

White Noise.
Circle-Of-Two
Initiative Associates
Legiunea ROmana
T o r m e n t u m
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Burning Ambition
HUN Reloaded
Quarantine Zone
Dirt Nap Squad.
Bloodbound.
VooDoo Technologies
Fear Th3 Vampires
Dead Terrorists
Ewoks
Luminance Alliance


Add to Defenders: (or some other name, but don't call it Northern Coalition because the NC is a well defined entity that doesn't include LODRA for example)

Rebellion Alliance
Dreddit (This will really boost your k/d e-peen :) )


I'll post again later if I think of more.

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Originally by: Blazde

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Apparently this might constitute proof that WN are working with IT: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1004/new_titan.png

I dunno, it could just be a titan sale. But I think it's irrelevant anyway, the fronts in Pure Blind and Venal are obviously mutually beneficial to both sets of attackers.

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Originally by: Kay Rizen

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lol, "the crusaders", get off your own nuts and call it what it is, the Dirty SouthÖ, or barring that call it what 99.9% of eve calls it, the southern coalition. at some point you guys stopped whining about blobbing and decided to form a coalition for some good fights. good on you, but don't shy away from the name that comes with it.

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Originally by: Marlona Sky

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There a way to add and update maybe once a week the number of people in each alliance on your tracker?

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Originally by: TK420

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I'm supposing that you would like this to be an objective look at the war rather than another piece of useless propaganda? While I doubt we can ask for unbiased people to do the reports it would be nice to see the list in detail rather than just kills/isk.

Why not show what types of ships are being killed each day and in total? When did your calculations start, April 1st?

It's a good tool, but I think you're cutting it short by not including details and proper lists.

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Originally by: TK420

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I'm supposing that you would like this to be an objective look at the war rather than another piece of useless propaganda? While I doubt we can ask for unbiased people to do the reports it would be nice to see the list in detail rather than just kills/isk.

Why not show what types of ships are being killed each day and in total?

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Originally by: TK420

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When did your calculations start, April 1st?

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Originally by: TK420

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It's a good tool, but I think you're cutting it short by not including details and proper lists.

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Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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I'm mainly just disappointed that a group of people trying to provide a professional service would act in such a biased way, I mean the name aside, the NC is shown as red and the SC is blue.

I think there may be a marketing opportunity here though, perhaps time to set up an alternative killboard hosting service, I'm pretty sure where the southern coalition alliances would be spending their money next.

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Originally by: Blazde

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I have no idea what you're getting at Karb. There's all kinds of accidental blue-on-blue kills messing up the stats already with just your selective list. Rebellion are a part of the NC. They're in RAWR's only guest slot. White Noise and Circle-Of-Two are killing our towers which is pretty much the definition of invading in EVE (tower killing was the basis for me listing most of those entities).

If this site is just weak propoganda then fair enough, I wasted my time trying to compile an accurate list. If you want it to be some kind of legitimate record of the war (something I for one have wanted to see in EVE for years) then you need to add in the people actually fighting the war.

Sev3rance should go on the north too btw.

And is it possible to do something about all those duplicated tower mails (in general on the killboards, not just in these stats)?

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Originally by: thoth rothschild

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Only kills are counted if
a) Ally Killboard contains a killmail
and
b) Enemy Killboard contains a Lossmail
We¦re back to our basic problem why we demanded such a servicem, which was enemy not posting lossmails....

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Originally by: Karbowiak

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Originally by: Setsuko NuKinni

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This is all fine and dandy, but you should focus on reducing the downtime of your killboards first tbh, they're always glitching.

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Can you recall a time in the past 3-4 weeks its been down? (Rather, AFTER we upgraded to EDK3 - besides the initial downtime).

I cant - neither can any of the alert scrips i have running (Lets put it like this, every 2 minutes services are checked - and if something is funky my iPhone goes nuts with girl'ish screams) Sofar - "she" hasnt screamed yet

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Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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I'm mainly just disappointed that a group of people trying to provide a professional service would act in such a biased way, I mean the name aside, the NC is shown as red and the SC is blue.

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Quote:

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Overall Totals
SideKill-PointsHostile ISK killedKills
Crusaders570832666.00B ISK11789
Northern Coalition348249595.46B ISK8481

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Originally by: wtfgecko

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Not that I object to the colour scheme, but could you kinda make them a bit less eye-hurtingly blue and red (especially white on red).

And I have a funny feeling you've doctored the 'Crusaders' total isk killed. http://imgur.com/Y7jKj.png

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Originally by: Avernus

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...some kudos to using your main to post like an asshat though... doesn't really take balls though, you're on the internet.

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Originally by: Grigo

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this is pretty fail as it dos not crosscheck alliances( if i go and kill a noob corp dude it will show up as NC kill but it is not a valid kill) also there are a lot of alliances missing or misplaced.

with no access to direct mails you can not do something accurate.


edit: also over the evsco kb is good but not perfect. it is missing a lot of kill mails.

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Originally by: Marc Folk

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Originally by: Grigo

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this is pretty fail as it dos not crosscheck alliances( if i go and kill a noob corp dude it will show up as NC kill but it is not a valid kill) also there are a lot of alliances missing or misplaced.

with no access to direct mails you can not do something accurate.


edit: also over the evsco kb is good but not perfect. it is missing a lot of kill mails.

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As mentioned on IRC earlier this day, the stats ARE cross checked (correct me Peter if i write **** :D ).

If you find missing mails, post them on eve-kill. Or add the feed to eve-kill, so the kills will be fetched.
Afaik eve-kill is the most accurate killmail database so far.

regards :)

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Originally by: Avernus

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...some kudos to using your main to post like an asshat though... doesn't really take balls though, you're on the internet.

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Originally by: Marc Folk

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As mentioned on IRC earlier this day, the stats ARE cross checked (correct me Peter if i write **** :D ).

If you find missing mails, post them on eve-kill. Or add the feed to eve-kill, so the kills will be fetched.

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Originally by: Grigo

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i am not interested just pointing out a fact as i did the mats for 2010-04-09 and its around 20 bil off so wont even bother whit the rest.

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Originally by: Grigo

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p.s why is WN and CO2 not on Crusaders team?

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Originally by: Daedhead

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I like the "Crusaders" gimmick. It implies that the South wants to blue the entire game which is pretty accurate imo.

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Originally by: Peter Powers

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Originally by: Grigo

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p.s why is WN and CO2 not on Crusaders team?

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as stated a few times in this thread, they are shooting on the crusaders side aswell.

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Originally by: Avernus

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...some kudos to using your main to post like an asshat though... doesn't really take balls though, you're on the internet.

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Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists

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Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 12/04/2010 14:47:51

Originally by: Daedhead

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I like the "Crusaders" gimmick. It implies that the South wants to blue the entire game which is pretty accurate imo.

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If you have put as little effort into saving your last highends as in your baitposts im not surprised evoke has em back already.

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Originally by: Grigo

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edit: Ba'Rumph if u want to do something then do it right, this "tool" is not accurate, far from it

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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Originally by: Grigo

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edit: Ba'Rumph if u want to do something then do it right, this "tool" is not accurate, far from it

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Looks pretty accurate to me. Are you sure you're not objecting because the whole "We're winning" facade just broke down?

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Originally by: Avernus

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...some kudos to using your main to post like an asshat though... doesn't really take balls though, you're on the internet.

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Originally by: Grigo

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<stuff>

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Originally by: Grigo

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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Originally by: Grigo

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edit: Ba'Rumph if u want to do something then do it right, this "tool" is not accurate, far from it

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Looks pretty accurate to me. Are you sure you're not objecting because the whole "We're winning" facade just broke down?

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no because i am looking at it from a mathematical/statistical point of view

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Originally by: Grigo

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and i have no reason to "winne" ,

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Originally by: Grigo

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however when i look at the "tool" that is presented here my RL background kicks in to point out the obvious holes in it.

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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Originally by: RLCHANCE

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lolz = D i got told


still NC killed more caps :)

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And SC killed more POSes

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Originally by: RLCHANCE

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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Originally by: RLCHANCE

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lolz = D i got told


still NC killed more caps :)

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And SC killed more POSes

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True buuuuuuuuuuuut Caps are worth More:P

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Originally by: Peter Powers

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Originally by: TK420

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When did your calculations start, April 1st?

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Yes, as thats the point of the official campaign start.

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Originally by: RLCHANCE

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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Originally by: RLCHANCE

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lolz = D i got told


still NC killed more caps :)

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And SC killed more POSes

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True buuuuuuuuuuuut Caps are worth More:P

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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Edited by: KIAEddZ on 12/04/2010 20:18:37
99.7% of all statistics on the internet are biased in such a way as to effect the neutral parties opinions in a favorable manner towards the publishers.

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Originally by: General Windypops

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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Edited by: KIAEddZ on 12/04/2010 20:18:37
99.7% of all statistics on the internet are biased in such a way as to effect the neutral parties opinions in a favorable manner towards the publishers.

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That must be a relief for you, because 95% of the people on this forum think you were a terrible alliance leader.

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Originally by: Karbowiak

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Originally by: TK420

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When did your calculations start, April 1st?

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The calculations started from the 1st April yes.

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Originally by: Peter Powers

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Originally by: TK420

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When did your calculations start, April 1st?

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Yes, as thats the point of the official campaign start.

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Originally by: Lady Xantios

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Karbowiak. Post links on SHC and then link SHC instead. then all can have link and avoid stupid CCP rules.

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Originally by: Vuk Lau

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whining

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Originally by: Grigo

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edit edit edit

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Originally by: Rover Vitesse

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Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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I'm mainly just disappointed that a group of people trying to provide a professional service would act in such a biased way, I mean the name aside, the NC is shown as red and the SC is blue.

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I notice you have an issue with the colours, and am not sure what this would be in an Eve context. Are you upset that Red = Amarr or Blue = Caldari ?

Are you British; upset that this is politicised and Blue = Conservative or Red = Labour ?

I am assuming that you are upset that Red = Warsaw Pact (which hasn't been a threat to your western decadence for almost twenty years) and NATO = Blue ? If this is the case then I suggest you take your prejudicial outrage elsewhere.

Just as a point of interest, until the 1950s the UK used Red for British Forces (what else considering the colour of the Army!) and only switched when it became clear that the Warsaw Pact were the "new enemy".

To get round the issue of upsetting ex-WP forces now within NATO, it is becoming trendy to use Orange as Enemy Forces. Perhaps the Dutch don't get offended.

Meno, I expect you're the same type of person who gets upset when those boards used in classrooms are called a Blackboard.

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Originally by: Entaran

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This is really quite simple. Until the sides are fixed (WN/CO2 etc) who are claimed to be neutral but realistically do things like temp blue sides to accomplish goals

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Originally by: Entaran

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and the entire stats are reupdated from SCRATCH taking into account the changes (I notice that the addition of DNS for instance has not changed the kills count for the last week and they have lost entire fleets of t2) the external NC KB's will just disable feeds to eve-kill. Kind of negates your project right?

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Originally by: Teschan

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Could someone do me the courtesy of reposting this link in a way that CCP wont crap the bed over?

Do it quickly whilst they're busy copy-pasting "we will not give you your stuff back" responses into the people who got shafted by the node in the latest fleet battle

Cheers.

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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Edited by: Ba''Rumph on 13/04/2010 05:40:35


It's seriously not hard to find, especially for a northern-crusade r like you, I mean come on!

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Originally by: Entaran

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EMOTHREAT

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Originally by: Entaran

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This is really quite simple. Until the sides are fixed (WN/CO2 etc) who are claimed to be neutral but realistically do things like temp blue sides to accomplish goals and the entire stats are reupdated from SCRATCH taking into account the changes (I notice that the addition of DNS for instance has not changed the kills count for the last week and they have lost entire fleets of t2) the external NC KB's will just disable feeds to eve-kill. Kind of negates your project right? The MM KB is actually down atm and has been for quite some time.

Right?

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Originally by: Teschan

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Could someone do me the courtesy of reposting this link in a way that CCP wont crap the bed over?

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Originally by: Marlona Sky

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Originally by: Entaran

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EMOTHREAT

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Something about NC disabling feed to eve-kill killboard.

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Originally by: Gertrud ToD

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Tbis thread is golden.

what happened so far:

1) Big War kicks off, and all of CAOD is whining about no accurate numbers, NC being the loudest whiners

2) Some guys step up and do something about it (kudos). In the process one of em gets Forum banned

3) NC whines cause they would like to se more corps added to their hostiles.

4) Guys add more corps to solution

5) NC splits up in whining about adding even more corps, even though those are hostile to the side they want 'em added too, and whining about colors / names used.

6) Guys say no.

7) More NC whine, threats to remove itself as datasource if guys hostile to SC are not added to SC side.

What have we learned so far:
EVSCO Guys: good job
NC: shame on you. if you do not like your numbers fight, and ffs, get someone to manage your public relations, this is a catastrophe.
SC: i'm sure sooner or later i'll think of something to write for you too.

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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So, you're saying that the killboards that this board draws it's stats from are inaccurate? It's a simple database, you know. If you feel that your mathematical and statistical know-how surpasses that of the admins of the stat-feeding killboards, feel free to take it up with them. This aggregate killboard just compiles the stats that the other killboards lists.

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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It's spelled "whine", and yes, you do have a reason to whine. This aggregate killboard competently dispels the myth that the NC is winning.

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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My RL background tells me that you're wrong.

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Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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@peter - I therefore DEMAND that NC be set pink, and no I'm really not joking.

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Originally by: Avernus

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...some kudos to using your main to post like an asshat though... doesn't really take balls though, you're on the internet.

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Originally by: arjun

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one little request: please make it so, that the baseline of the graphs is at zero. looking at it now i get depressed, but maybe thats the purpose . make little arjun happy please.

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Originally by: DigitalCommunist

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.

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Originally by: Peter Powers

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on request of one of the donators - pie charts for the total values have been added.

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:09:47
Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:06:04
funny the whining.

Well how can the NC expect to be wining if they are on the defence all the time? They dont even attack their enemy POSs. They are loosing the eco war alredy. Surelly they can see that loosing the eco war in EVE is loosing the war! It will happen the same as with the Pathetic Legion. Keep loosing moons then demoralized then move to empire space. Is anyone sees this pattern yet?

At the end of all it does not really matters how many ships are killed or not (exception would be to kill 300 + capitals would slow down the advance)...What matters is that you dont loose the eco war. Once you loose that, the stampeed begins...Surelly they are clever enough to know that?

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Originally by: SirMolle

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and Waagaa is wearing skirts.

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Originally by: Murauke

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:09:47
Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:06:04
funny the whining.

Well how can the NC expect to be wining if they are on the defence all the time? They dont even attack their enemy POSs. They are loosing the eco war alredy. Surelly they can see that loosing the eco war in EVE is loosing the war! It will happen the same as with the Pathetic Legion. Keep loosing moons then demoralized then move to empire space. Is anyone sees this pattern yet?

At the end of all it does not really matters how many ships are killed or not (exception would be to kill 300 + capitals would slow down the advance)...What matters is that you dont loose the eco war. Once you loose that, the stampeed begins...Surelly they are clever enough to know that?

---

As I posted earlier how does several mooons affect eco war? "at the end of it all it does not really matter how many ships are killed or not" lol wake up, thats what it is all about. without ships..no fighting dumbass...

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 12:04:26

Originally by: Murauke

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

---

Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:09:47
Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:06:04
funny the whining.

Well how can the NC expect to be wining if they are on the defence all the time? They dont even attack their enemy POSs. They are loosing the eco war alredy. Surelly they can see that loosing the eco war in EVE is loosing the war! It will happen the same as with the Pathetic Legion. Keep loosing moons then demoralized then move to empire space. Is anyone sees this pattern yet?

At the end of all it does not really matters how many ships are killed or not (exception would be to kill 300 + capitals would slow down the advance)...What matters is that you dont loose the eco war. Once you loose that, the stampeed begins...Surelly they are clever enough to know that?

---

As I posted earlier how does several mooons affect eco war? "at the end of it all it does not really matter how many ships are killed or not" lol wake up, thats what it is all about. without ships..no fighting dumbass...

---

You would excuse me...but i think the "dumbass" is you. Do you not think that alliance as large as they dont have an effective ship replacement program? They probably can build 3 or 5 for every you destroy. Cap ships is different thought. If they didnt had an effective replacement, they would have lost the Pathetic Legion and pets ages ago but they didnt. So really its does not really matter how many ships you loose as long as the overall objective is been won. Its like the old russian history. They kept throuwing ppl into the front line, no matter how many die, at the end there is a brake throught.

Also you cant really build ships without POS minerals. They help a ton in production of tech 2 ships. So loosing moons, loose more capability to produce them at a faster rate.

And at the end IT and their allies still have their moons. Its only the NC thats loosing theirs. Its only the NCs space thats been herassed and not of the SC. This is an easy moral victory. The SC pets are safe and happy, the NC pets will start to feel the pinch very soon i think.

Those are my thoughts...

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Originally by: Murauke

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 12:04:26

Originally by: Murauke

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

---

Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:09:47
Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:06:04
funny the whining.

Well how can the NC expect to be wining if they are on the defence all the time? They dont even attack their enemy POSs. They are loosing the eco war alredy. Surelly they can see that loosing the eco war in EVE is loosing the war! It will happen the same as with the Pathetic Legion. Keep loosing moons then demoralized then move to empire space. Is anyone sees this pattern yet?

At the end of all it does not really matters how many ships are killed or not (exception would be to kill 300 + capitals would slow down the advance)...What matters is that you dont loose the eco war. Once you loose that, the stampeed begins...Surelly they are clever enough to know that?

---

As I posted earlier how does several mooons affect eco war? "at the end of it all it does not really matter how many ships are killed or not" lol wake up, thats what it is all about. without ships..no fighting dumbass...

---

You would excuse me...but i think the "dumbass" is you. Do you not think that alliance as large as they dont have an effective ship replacement program? They probably can build 3 or 5 for every you destroy. Cap ships is different thought. If they didnt had an effective replacement, they would have lost the Pathetic Legion and pets ages ago but they didnt. So really its does not really matter how many ships you loose as long as the overall objective is been won. Its like the old russian history. They kept throuwing ppl into the front line, no matter how many die, at the end there is a brake throught.

Also you cant really build ships without POS minerals. They help a ton in production of tech 2 ships. So loosing moons, loose more capability to produce them at a faster rate.

And at the end IT and their allies still have their moons. Its only the NC thats loosing theirs. Its only the NCs space thats been herassed and not of the SC. This is an easy moral victory. The SC pets are safe and happy, the NC pets will start to feel the pinch very soon i think.

Those are my thoughts...

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No ships no fighting!

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Originally by: Peter Powers

---

o/ folks,
i just added a few charts today, for people who like it a bit more
visual than numbers (alot of people where asking me in chats and other forums for this)
(yes im reading more then this, trying to get more input on how to imrpove)

---

Originally by: Peter Powers

---

about the "1st of april" discussion:
I was thinking about the date and when to start quite a bit before we launched the northern-crusade website, because i knew no matter what date i pick there would be discussion. At first my favorite was to start tracking at launch-day, but then alot of people would have complained about the 10 days before that.
Putting the date before a the day that the invasion started might be in favour for the defending forces (not sure i havent run the numbers), but a bit unorthodox too, and i dont see where to draw the line then.
The Decision was made, and it will stay as it is.

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Originally by: Peter Powers

---

About the color discussion:
Blue/Red is a classic color scheme for display of sides in military conflicts, i dont see why i should use something else - Im sure had i made the attacking side pink and the defending side brown, then there would have been complains about brown being a negative color - seriously guys, this website is not about colors.

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Originally by: Peter Powers

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We where discussing a name for the domain on EVSCOs irc channel a few days ago, and pretty much all we could come up with was pretty lame - all circus/clow related stuff would not give credit to all of the attackers, and we did not want to use terms used for previous wars making it more distinctive.

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Originally by: Peter Powers

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[...] most where using SC - which is not only quite lame, but also not accurate (Ev0ke for example is not a southern entity and not all southern major alliances are involved), so looking at the name of the site i believe crusaders is quite a good fit for the name.

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Originally by: Murauke

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I have no emotional attachment to this game and i'm in it for enjoyment.

I'd much rather see SOV drop because bills cant be paid, fleet numbers dropping, and ships un-properly fit before you start claiming the ECO war has already been won.

Its been good fun when i've managed to be there, something the game has needed for a long time. But passive income has been milked and milked for a long time do you not think these alliances are sitting on billions of isk already, on both sides?

But an interesting opinion i would like to make is, how much "eco strain" is being put on the attackers? Numbers on both sides have peaked may be a sign of strain, boredom or anticipation of the new patch.

We know our territory, we are the taliban. :D

---

Originally by: Grigo

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rage

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Originally by: Dirala

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....

Originally by: Peter Powers

---

About the color discussion:
Blue/Red is a classic color scheme for display of sides in military conflicts, i dont see why i should use something else - Im sure had i made the attacking side pink and the defending side brown, then there would have been complains about brown being a negative color - seriously guys, this website is not about colors.

---

This is very true. But, red is also on all Killboards, and in pretty much every Movie :) the color of the enemy when you look at those type of stats is red as well.
This looks to me like, blue as in BoB/IT kinda color they always had on sovmap. And red, well, red the enemy as you see it on every killboard and so on. Nice thinking. :)
Sorry, this looks also a bit biased to me.
better make it Any other Color, even pink would be better. :) You are right when you say it's not about color. But the colors you chose make a bad impression, design does help to make a site trustworthy.

...

Cheers Dirala

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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Oh for the love of....Peter, please..Just change the colors around. Make us (IT etc etc) Red, and them (NC) Blue. Be done with this stupid overanalytical nonsense.
Honestly why you even mentioned colors to begin with is beyond me. Wheres the smiley thats banging its head into a wall when I need it.

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

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Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 13:32:47

Originally by: Murauke

---

I have no emotional attachment to this game and i'm in it for enjoyment.

I'd much rather see SOV drop because bills cant be paid, fleet numbers dropping, and ships un-properly fit before you start claiming the ECO war has already been won.

Its been good fun when i've managed to be there, something the game has needed for a long time. But passive income has been milked and milked for a long time do you not think these alliances are sitting on billions of isk already, on both sides?

But an interesting opinion i would like to make is, how much "eco strain" is being put on the attackers? Numbers on both sides have peaked may be a sign of strain, boredom or anticipation of the new patch.

We know our territory, we are the taliban. :D

---

Without a doubt that both sit on billions of isk but so did PL and now look where they are. I like they way you avoid the question thought.
And yes without a doubt there is a need for the new patch to lower the lag fiasco.
The eco strain is for now low on both sides. Cos its only getting started. I am sure that lots of the SC logistics are been moved still and will be for some time. Once they establish their logistic in the borders then they boost kicks in.
Also you mention soooo much the killing of ships but you forget the POSs loss. Each is worth billions in isk. And they are not easelly replaced XD

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Originally by: Murauke

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The only winner at the moment is CCP and the ship manufactures because i sure hope they are learning a lot from the massive lag and grid load issue's.

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Originally by: Lord TGR

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Originally by: Murauke

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The only winner at the moment is CCP and the ship manufactures because i sure hope they are learning a lot from the massive lag and grid load issue's.

---

You'd think they should be able to see what the problem is with all these fights, but I'm not convinced until I see progress. The grid load issues definitely need fixing, especially with the new "max 10 AU further from the sun than the most distant elestial" 'fix' they're implementing. That's certainly not going to **** over attackers even more than it already is.

Hell, I lost a ship a while back because I lagged out or whatever after I'd loaded grid after warping to a gate. And that was with what, 100-200 in system, tops, mostly blue.

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Originally by: Dirala

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better make it Any other Color, even pink would be better. :) You are right when you say it's not about color. But the colors you chose make a bad impression, design does help to make a site trustworthy.

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Originally by: Dirala

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And what about the credit for the defenders? I'm pretty sure nobody ever thought about that. So again, this sounds very much biased.

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Originally by: Dirala

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Especially because you don't wanne change a little bit of it. (which actually would make your work more accepted)

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Originally by: Dirala

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Anyways, I got a question too.
Regarding the ISK kill/loss: You take modules into account? And when you pull kills from other boards, how is the ISK value determined. because on the IT killboard, the Wyvern loss for example is way less ISK as on the eve-kill board. And that is because all the faction modules on the IT Killboard are worth nothing.

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Originally by: foksieloy

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Suggestion:

Add total numbers (character wise) for each alliance on the lists. And a grand total for Crusaders and NC.

Just so people would understand what clash this is. :>

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Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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Edited by: Meno Theaetetus on 13/04/2010 01:20:08

Originally by: Rover Vitesse

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Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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I'm mainly just disappointed that a group of people trying to provide a professional service would act in such a biased way, I mean the name aside, the NC is shown as red and the SC is blue.

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I notice you have an issue with the colours, and am not sure what this would be in an Eve context. Are you upset that Red = Amarr or Blue = Caldari ?

Are you British; upset that this is politicised and Blue = Conservative or Red = Labour ?

I am assuming that you are upset that Red = Warsaw Pact (which hasn't been a threat to your western decadence for almost twenty years) and NATO = Blue ? If this is the case then I suggest you take your prejudicial outrage elsewhere.

Just as a point of interest, until the 1950s the UK used Red for British Forces (what else considering the colour of the Army!) and only switched when it became clear that the Warsaw Pact were the "new enemy".

To get round the issue of upsetting ex-WP forces now within NATO, it is becoming trendy to use Orange as Enemy Forces. Perhaps the Dutch don't get offended.

Meno, I expect you're the same type of person who gets upset when those boards used in classrooms are called a Blackboard.

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You serious?

Perhaps you are, well there is this game called 'EvE Online' or 'Internet Spaceships' or 'Lag Online' or 'Session Timers Online' and there is a thing called the standings system. In this 'Standings System' there is a way to make those on your side, or aligned to you appear 'Blue' and those against you or your enemy 'Red'. If your interested they do 15 day trials.

Seriously though, the blackboard has been oppressed by the evil whiteboard for too long.

@peter - I therefore DEMAND that NC be set pink, and no I'm really not joking.

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Originally by: Grigo

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Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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So, you're saying that the killboards that this board draws it's stats from are inaccurate? It's a simple database, you know. If you feel that your mathematical and statistical know-how surpasses that of the admins of the stat-feeding killboards, feel free to take it up with them. This aggregate killboard just compiles the stats that the other killboards lists.

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just off the top of my head i can point out at least 4 large errors that the killbord you are pulling information from has. coming here and whit the "here are the exact stas" and then going "feel free to take it up with them" is not the way to do stuff
Just try to remove a fake mail and see what happens whit the stats(alliance/corp/personal), and how fast it is reposted from rss feed.

Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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It's spelled "whine", and yes, you do have a reason to whine. This aggregate killboard competently dispels the myth that the NC is winning.

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lol ok if u say so btw what are the lottery numbers as apparently u have a very evolved sence to see the future and read people minds. and the killbord stats that u have presented are only part of the actual story, but i dont aspect anything more from someone that is
1) red
2) very active CAOD poster

i do not see your point as checking WN and CO2 KB i have found just a couple of km's from SC , no large battles, and whit the active campaign from CO2 and molles's speech there is no doubt they are on your side. but then again i will have more luck reasoning whit a wall then you aparently.

Originally by: Ba'Rumph

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My RL background tells me that you're wrong.

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my 13 years of back end web developing and 2 master degrees in mathematics and computer engineering say otherwise. but o wait i am only trained to code smart software i have no idea of kb's....right?...right?

Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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@peter - I therefore DEMAND that NC be set pink, and no I'm really not joking.

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i second that

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Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN

---

Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:09:47
Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 13/04/2010 11:06:04
funny the whining.

Well how can the NC expect to be wining if they are on the defence all the time? They dont even attack their enemy POSs. They are loosing the eco war alredy. Surelly they can see that loosing the eco war in EVE is loosing the war! It will happen the same as with the Pathetic Legion. Keep loosing moons then demoralized then move to empire space. Is anyone sees this pattern yet?

At the end of all it does not really matters how many ships are killed or not (exception would be to kill 300 + capitals would slow down the advance)...What matters is that you dont loose the eco war. Once you loose that, the stampeed begins...Surelly they are clever enough to know that?

---

Originally by: Dr Ngo

---

People need to stop talking about the 'eco war' like both sides don't have isk coming out of their collective asses. Nobody is shooting pos's to deprive the other side of their income, it's to disrupt their infrastructure. The fact remains that the losses on both sides so far are pretty much chump change to these guys.

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Originally by: Regulottus

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Has TRAPS stopped pvping and turned into a forum-warrior corp??
Looking at your corp killboard you guys seem to have died.

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Originally by: CCP Zymurgist

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Heck pod everyone you pirates, Get off the forums and go kill someone!

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Originally by: Murauke

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not really since the re-calibration passive income has been drastically reduced, what has taken a hit though is SOV so with all the systems that all the SC hold thats a financial drain too. In my opinion, poses are being popped on both sides the more the SC take the more they have to do to keep them fueled thats a eco strain.... like i said i have no emotional attachment to this game, i've learnt that alliances come and go, space is taken and then lost and then retaken 12months later under a new name all that matters is the name on the tin.

The only winner at the moment is CCP and the ship manufactures because i sure hope they are learning a lot from the massive lag and grid load issue's.

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Originally by: Karbowiak

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Killboard link removed.Applebabe

Contermanded forum moderation is not allowed.Applebabe

It updates daily during the downtime, so have your mails posted to by then Killboard link removed.Applebabe (...) Contermanded forum moderation is not allowed.Applebabe

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Originally by: senecti

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So how does this work then ? if you got on most of the crusaders boards their KD ratios are far lower than those on the NC's boards but somewhere along the way the crusaders gained loads.

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Originally by: senecti

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Also if the mail needs to be posted on both boards how does that work when for example atlas today have had 17 losses according to eve-kill yet only 1 has found its way onto atlas's board. Also if you look at the day before atlas lost 3 and half pages worth but they only posted 7 on their boards.

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Originally by: Cadela Fria

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Edited by: Cadela Fria on 13/04/2010 13:39:38

Originally by: Dirala

---

....

Originally by: Peter Powers

---

About the color discussion:
Blue/Red is a classic color scheme for display of sides in military conflicts, i dont see why i should use something else - Im sure had i made the attacking side pink and the defending side brown, then there would have been complains about brown being a negative color - seriously guys, this website is not about colors.

---

This is very true. But, red is also on all Killboards, and in pretty much every Movie :) the color of the enemy when you look at those type of stats is red as well.
This looks to me like, blue as in BoB/IT kinda color they always had on sovmap. And red, well, red the enemy as you see it on every killboard and so on. Nice thinking. :)
Sorry, this looks also a bit biased to me.
better make it Any other Color, even pink would be better. :) You are right when you say it's not about color. But the colors you chose make a bad impression, design does help to make a site trustworthy.

...

Cheers Dirala

---

Oh for the love of....Peter, please..Just change the colors around. Make us (IT etc etc) Red, and them (NC) Blue. Be done with this stupid overanalytical nonsense.
Honestly why you even mentioned colors to begin with is beyond me. Next Morsus Mihi will probably have a go at whoever set the respective colors of IT and MM on the Sov map..christ. Wheres the smiley thats banging its head into a wall when I need it.

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Originally by: Deltaprimus

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heya mate ur stats for talos are wrong :(

http://talos-coalition.co.uk/?a=home

thats our killboard its 100% api synced so there's no fake mails and all losses are on there as well (otherwise my guys get ball ache from me for not posting properley). if you wish to point ur killboard at that to bring ur database up to date ur more than welcome.

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Originally by: Imigo Montoya

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A very useful tool for statistics indeed. Most sides' killboards are showing a very high efficiency due to the flawed nature of killboards - while many people can take part in the destruction of a ship (and each can then have it counting on their killboard), only one person (and therefore corp/alliance) takes any loss.

I'm somewhat confused by the reasoning that comes from this though. To say one side is winning because they are killing more ships/ISK is horrendously flawed. It assumes that both sides have an equal industrial/economic footing, and as 'everybody' knows, the NC are all carebears and therefore have much more ability to keep pumping out new ships...

To determine whether a side is winning or losing you would really need to have some metric to measure their ability to sustain losses compared to the losses they are sustaining. Without that this is simply a good killboard flaw rectification tool.

So, let's stop making judgements on success/failure based on incomplete information, and remember, he conquers who endures.

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Originally by: Optimism

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You need to fix the prices for faction missiles and reprice all the kills that have happened up until now...

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Originally by: arjun

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Edited by: arjun on 23/04/2010 11:29:59
something makes me curious. on 22.04 at downtime kills for both parties were shown as 861/862 respectively for the 21.04.
at downtime of the 23.04 the numbers are still the same. was there not a single new killmail added during those 24 hours for the 21.04 or is there no feeding of older killmails?

edit: i setup a new operating system on my pc. now i cant see the shiny graphics. what addon do i need to install?

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Originally by: Hun Jakuza

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Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 23/04/2010 18:45:09
Check this out

EVSCO working well isn't ?
Just check this out related kills. :D
Friendly (990) what is not realy 990 if someone see it.
30% is IT pilot in left side.
But IT fleet is at right side with (641) pilot.

Someone thinking about, IT fought against each others ? :D
No, just 30% different from the real data.

I was there i know it we fought with 250BS 4 hours long and the enemy was there over 800 members.
When they leaved system we catched the Wyvern and the killmail wh.o.res came later with ceptors and small ships , because they want to shot a supercarrier for free, that u see it on related kills.

Karbowiak data nothing else just an another SC propaganda.
I saw there 30% SC advantage in the first week, but i was there in the all fights.
The SC not won a single battle in the first week and their efficiency was cca 40%.
Just check 2010.04.01 false data. They was positive efficiency ? No they was not. Ridiculous. Just their Wyvern and capital ships lost was more than all NC losses.

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Originally by: Hun Jakuza

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Vica versa ? Please summarize the IT and their allies in the left fleet and summarize NC members in right fleet.
THX bye!

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Originally by: Hun Jakuza

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Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 23/04/2010 18:45:09
Check this out

EVSCO working well isn't ?
Just check this out related kills. :D
Friendly (990) what is not realy 990 if someone see it.
30% is IT pilot in left side.
But IT fleet is at right side with (641) pilot.

Someone thinking about, IT fought against each others ? :D
No, just 30% different from the real data.

I was there i know it we fought with 250BS 4 hours long and the enemy was there over 800 members.
When they leaved system we catched the Wyvern and the killmail wh.o.res came later with ceptors and small ships , because they want to shot a supercarrier for free, that u see it on related kills.

Karbowiak data nothing else just an another SC propaganda.
I saw there 30% SC advantage in the first week, but i was there in the all fights.
The SC not won a single battle in the first week and their efficiency was cca 40%.
Just check 2010.04.01 false data. They was positive efficiency ? No they was not. Ridiculous. Just their Wyvern and capital ships lost was more than all NC losses.

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Originally by: arjun

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mr karbowiak maybe reread my question? are mails that are posted on any of the kb after dt next day shown on your site? (seems not like that)if not are there technical reasons or is the serverload too large to feed in later mails?

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Originally by: Karbowiak

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Originally by: Hun Jakuza

---

Check this out

EVSCO working well isn't ?
Just check this out related kills. :D
Friendly (990) what is not realy 990 if someone see it.
30% is IT pilot in left side.
But IT fleet is at right side with (641) pilot.

Someone thinking about, IT fought against each others ? :D
No, just 30% different from the real data.

I was there i know it we fought with 250BS 4 hours long and the enemy was there over 800 members.
When they leaved system we catched the Wyvern and the killmail wh.o.res came later with ceptors and small ships , because they want to shot a supercarrier for free, that u see it on related kills.

Karbowiak data nothing else just an another SC propaganda.
I saw there 30% SC advantage in the first week, but i was there in the all fights.
The SC not won a single battle in the first week and their efficiency was cca 40%.
Just check 2010.04.01 false data. They was positive efficiency ? No they was not. Ridiculous. Just their Wyvern and capital ships lost was more than all NC losses.

---

What?..

Its EDK, and its a public killboard - it doesnt show proper kill_related stats, however kill_related has no effect on the stats that Northern Crusade shows.
If you want to know how Nothern Crusade calculates the stats check some of the earlier replies from Peter Powers.

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Originally by: Hun Jakuza

---

Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 24/04/2010 09:30:13
Realy ? Everyone know this is not true.
Because your stat not summarize from losses, but added to your data the kills too.
But everyone know killers not equal with the real data.

Check this example with 30 capital (RED Team) vs 30 capital (BLUE Team) fleetbattle:

Red team shot blue team with single weapon, but blue team using smartbombs and using damage to own fleet.
At end of fight the Red team won the fight and they killed all enemy ships and lost 5 ships from 30. The real data is 5 lost vs 30 lost.

But what you will see with your count ? All Blue team got 35 kills too because they used smartbomb and they made it 35 capital kill (cca 45 billion summarized damage). But this data not realy true.

Try to make your data to real, try to summarize just the losses. If someone lost a ship from an enemy ship that will 1 kill.
But now when 1 friendly killed one ship from own side that 1 kill, and their losses and ISK losses added to sum to your http://northern-crusade.com/ summary page. This is not EDK killboard just a counter, so you just could to add to page a simple program or php/html code which not enable to add to statistic (1 kill to other side too), those datas which have friendly fire in own kills. Simple: if IT,Atlas,-A- etc. alliance member contains in SC members killmail and made it finalblow just leave it.


This is simple, but you using to all sum for kill data.
Just if you want to know, on the first week NC not realy used smartbombing capitals, but SC did, when you check the EVSCO killboard you will see it (1,2), in every battlesummary, plus 20-30 percent SC members in NC fleet.
As you count it now add plus 20-30 percent SC kills to the real data.

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Originally by: BAteh

---

Use the Google Chart API instead of this Flashwhatever, so mobile equipments can see it.

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Originally by: Necronym

---

Nice site, thanks for all the work put in to it

Funnily enough, skimming through this thread and it seems that only the NC ppl are complaining about the stats of KB. Most likely cause factual data is something they can not spin as a 'win' like they been doin this entire war

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Originally by: arjun

---

hmmmm til today i was unsure about the inclusion of CO2, WN and RA on the SC side.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Z-K495/kills
that shows clearly, that those entities are blue to IT (required in the conditions to be included in the SC) and they shoot NC (in this special case working together to protect SBU planted in NC territory). the not inclusion of said entities into the SC by the northern crusade page seems more and more questionable.
mind that i dont know if the side i am on would look better or even worse after the inclusion of said entities.
NC doesnt look good in the statistics. i think thats an accurate assesment of reality but to make the service even better i request to include CO2, WN and possibly RA into the SC.

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