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Makin' Bacon
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Posted - 2010.04.12 19:43:00 -
[1]
I want to get good at small gang PvP. Right now, I am just plain terrible and whenever I kind of search for guides, I only find the most general guidelines.
When I start to do deeper research into the game, I just feel so overwhelmed by the amount of information.
So was it simply experience? Did you just go out and die a whole bunch to learn how to do it?
Are you just a natural?
Did you read some kind of guide? Did you search the wikis? If so, how? Just browse ship loadouts? Just listen to people in your corp?
How did you learn how to PvP well?
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Hurtful Words
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.04.12 19:52:00 -
[2]
Join a corp that is into pvp and helping newer players. x up for fleets and don't be afraid to lose cheap stuff. You can't learn everything overnight, so get a feeling for tackling in your frigate and the rest will come with time.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.04.12 19:54:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Makin' Bacon
I want to get good at small gang PvP. Right now, I am just plain terrible and whenever I kind of search for guides, I only find the most general guidelines.
When I start to do deeper research into the game, I just feel so overwhelmed by the amount of information.
So was it simply experience? Did you just go out and die a whole bunch to learn how to do it?
Are you just a natural?
Did you read some kind of guide? Did you search the wikis? If so, how? Just browse ship loadouts? Just listen to people in your corp?
How did you learn how to PvP well?
Pretty much all of the above. Read-->Talk-->Try-->Die-->Repeat.
If gang work is your thing, Try an Agony PvP course, great fun and very informative. Also Eve-Uni might be the place to try.
Trial and error, and the ability to examine your losses to see why you lost is one of the best ways to learn. Getting into a corp with some experienced players who will help you make sense of your losses/ kills etc. is also extremely helpful.
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Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva
Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.12 20:13:00 -
[4]
Read up on how to fit a Rifter, practiced with it a bit killing NPCs, went to lowsec, got my first kill after a few days, kept going at it.
Didn't really do the whole die a whole bunch part much, Rifters naturally die once in a while but no reason to die excessively in one.
At one point I figured that I just can't stomach highsec anymore and went to live and rat in lowsec in a AF and periodically kill stuff. Had a few embarassing AF losses trying to figure out if I can kill cruisers with it (basically - properly fit, no, especially not back in the old nos, old 90% web days), too.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mutnin
Amarr
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.12 20:52:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Mutnin on 12/04/2010 20:52:37
Me and two friends started playing EVE at the same time and we decided we were gonna be pirates. We started out can flipping and earned our self's 2 war decs our first month in game. 
Learned a bit from the war decs then went on the FW but I also did a lot of station fighting in Rifters on my first toon. Just sitting out side Rens or Jita trade hubs popping cans to get fights with other frigs.
I read a bit but for the most part I learned by trial and error. I also watched the killboards like a hawk to learn how people fitted their ships, so I would have an idea what to expect in a fight.
I can't stress the last part enough, because one of the biggest parts to learning PVP is knowing what the other ship is capable of before you engage it. This is something that only comes over time and with experience and as ship fits change over time you will always be learning in this area.
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Ephemeron
Retribution Corp.
Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2010.04.12 21:22:00 -
[6]
you start learning by dying
first 100 deaths let me get the basics of pvp
next 1000 deaths made me understand the fine points of it
next 1000 is just tuning your sense of intuition, developing instincts
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Amat3uR
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Posted - 2010.04.12 22:07:00 -
[7]
Practice. And lots of it. You should check out Red vs Blue. It's perfect for getting the feel for pvp.
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Voodoo Ido
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Posted - 2010.04.13 00:48:00 -
[8]
Don't wait. Start now.
The cost of tuition will only go up.
Fit ten cheap frigs, and go lose them all. Rinse, repeat.
Forget about the killboards. It doesn't matter how much you die, but how much you learn from the experience.
Lose your fear, so that you may find your courage.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.13 01:03:00 -
[9]
I was a covops pilot most of my EVE life and the FC's never "allowed" me to be in anything other than my covops heh. At some point we got kicked out of 0.0 ending up in high sec.
Because our ceo was #$%#ing carebear the pvp part of the corp kinda withered away and we weren't allowed to create "problems" so I made a minmatar pvp/pirate alt, read the forums, guides and whatnot, asked questions and started can flipping in high sec.
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I think, therefore I'm single.
Want to learn combat/PVP?
Alliance creation service |
Greymoon Avatar
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Posted - 2010.04.13 01:22:00 -
[10]
You want to PvP?
Get a Rifter and learn to fly it...
You want to die repeatedly and eventually emoragequit?
Get any other frigate and fight a Rifter...
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.13 01:48:00 -
[11]
Watch more movies. |
Voodoo Ido
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Posted - 2010.04.13 01:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Voodoo Ido on 13/04/2010 02:00:52
.
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Sajuukkar
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.13 02:11:00 -
[13]
Good question. Wish I know tbh. Movies are good. Courses are good. Hanging out in PvP centered places (roam the Amamake asteroid belts or whatever, lowec frequented by people looking for a fight).
One of my personal issues is that people in corp/in gang want you to learn to PvP, but can sometimes be unforgiving about a Rifter in the gang, and want a Vaga or Stilleto or something else instead.
For this, I found Sisi (test server, Tranquility) somewhat helpful, though the conditions are certainly somewhat artificial. It does allow you to lose a couple of dozen T2 (or T3) ships without destroying your wallet.
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Demolishar
United Aggression
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Posted - 2010.04.13 03:33:00 -
[14]
Anyone telling you to "Go lose ships" is just saying that on the off-chance that they might be the person who causes you to lose one.
Highsec wars are a good way of learning to pvp, and you can gradually increase the difficulty of your opponents by deccing bigger and stronger corps (but start with noobs of course). This way you get a gradual learning process as opposed to the "go lose ships in lowsec" approach which is in my eyes, throwing you in at the deep end.
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Ospie
Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.04.13 03:58:00 -
[15]
High sec wars are a pretty bad way imo, they're not exactly a target rich environment (with exception of Red vs Blue which would indeed be great place).
FW can be a good place to learn too, lot of frig fights and if you want to go solo roaming you can often find a reasonable number of people flying other small ships.
There are any number of corps out there who'll take on an aspiring pvper, Eve Uni's certainly one of them.
Then there are several pvp courses that some corps offer, they seem to have a good reputation so I suppose they're doing something right there.
You can also learn alot watching videos and also reading blogs (pirate blogs are a great way to find small insights into how pirates pull things off, also can be really inspiring as well).
Whatever you do decide to do, make sure you're ready to lose lots of ships because you will. Go in with the right attitude (be it calculating or balls to the wall), make sure you're happy taking risks, sometimes the most unlikely opponent can end up being a really fun unexpected fight. Small ships are good to start in too since they offer the most fights & have most immersive gameplay, learn fastest in them in my experience.
Finally avoid flying stuff you can't afford to replace, cause it stings when you can't!
That's my randomly put together 2 cents.
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Quesa
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.13 06:51:00 -
[16]
The absolute best way to learn PvP; the ships to fly vs. what, the ships capabilities and countering enemy strategies/fits is to take a cheap ship with a decent fit and lose it.
Then, do the same thing over and over about 20 times. You'll notice the difference after each couple of losses and you'll perfect your fit and own strategy.
Again, the key to learning PvP is to lose ships, I kid you not.
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Aralieus
Amarr
Rising Devils
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.04.13 08:22:00 -
[17]
By perfecting my timing and reaction speed, knowing what ship can do what, and knowing how as many ships in game will be fitted 75% of the time(cookie-cutter). Also pay close attention to ships attributes for either armor/shield weaknesses, this might not work all the time but when it does it can mean winning or losing pretty quickly.
Fortune favors the bold!!! |
Taudia
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.04.13 08:33:00 -
[18]
I went to Amamake and surrounding low sec with t1 fit punishers and engaged pretty much anything. Lost, I think, 5 punishers before I managed to kill an incursus. Lost another 15 punishers with some success, then switched to ruptures (I had realized how bad amarr was in small ships at that point). What you learn from this is how to use the onboard scanner (necessity for gathering intel), reading local and reading people you're on grid with's behaviour. These are what I would consider the baseline.
Browsing loadouts on killboards/battleclinic, watching videos and plain old experience will give you an idea of how common loadouts perform, which is handy for dealing with special ships like dramiels, vagabonds or recons. Some vids also give away techniques on how to bait or handle certain situations (some of kil2's commented stuff and Endless subversion's mind game come to mind) and micromanagement tips.
One thing I do is try to review each engagement - win or lose - and try to determine why it had the outcome it had. Was the enemies backup late? if so why was it late? Did he have a poor loadout for fighting yours? If so, why did he fight you?
Contemplate what you could have done better, is the core of it. Sometimes there'll be nothing to learn, or maybe you just made the same mistake, again, and all there is todo is try not to make that mistake again. Others will be minor revelations and will shape the way to see pvp from here on out.
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uredo
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Posted - 2010.04.13 09:08:00 -
[19]
All good advice.
This thread has a nice selection of decent T1 frigate fits:
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=33070&sid=3632718e5218ebc927087f6ecae32771
Join Factional War or Red v Blue. Insure @ platinum, each ship will cost you about 500,000 and you'll get a decent chunk back in insurance each time you die.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.13 10:46:00 -
[20]
Go pvp, getting good comes with practice. What happened the first time you tried modern warfare 2 online? Get owned much? I did but that's how you learn. Talk to those who know how to fight well, pirates are a good place to start. Yes they're evil and all but they do pvp for profit, they HAVE to be good at it else they go bankrupt. Some are brighter than others obviously, I recommend talking to the gutsy ones. If you ever lost a BC/BS to some solo pirate frigate in low sec, he's the guy you want to talk to.
One of the worst things you can do for learning pvp is joining the blob. The reason is that's a test of average ability and coordination, not your own skill. You can win hundreds of fleet battles as a soldier and not learn a damn thing about how to fit your ship or use it. I've seen many such players. One guy in particular kept fighting me, he came from null sec and was ranked in the top 500 players on battleclinic. He had a very solid k/d ratio and on paper looked fantastic. Then I found out he was flying an armor tanked beam laser rokh. It was deliberate too, all t2 gear, and I blew up three of the damn things. His other ship setups weren't any better. Two weeks after moving into low sec he was ranked 20k on BC and plummeting. I also talked with the guy, it was the same player, not a purchased character.
I advise avoiding eve university for pvp training for this very reason. They are the absolute worst pvp'ers in game I've come across (and I've seen many). The extent of their "training" consists of hurling 50 man frigate/cruiser gangs with god only knows what fitted at small pirate BS/carrier fleets and watching the ensuing massacre. Sometimes they win but it's only through epically outnumbering the unlucky victims. Seriously, stay away from them. You'll get dumber just by hanging out with them. Can't comment on agony unleashed but if they employ similar tactics you should avoid them too.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.13 11:05:00 -
[21]
I signed up for the war after having spent a year+ in blob-land. Today I consider blob-land battles to have more in common with Space Invaders than PvP 
- Started out losing some 40-50 ships before the combat shakes subsided and my brain started working under the influence of adrenalin.
- Time since has been spent polishing tactics, visual identification of enemies and micro-managing modules/heat.
The good fights are against equally skilled/fitted opponents or multiple less so. The good fight ends in equal losses on both sides regardless of end result .. flaming survivors is a must 
You can read all you want but sooner rather than later you meet someone who throws you a curveball and demolishes you .. experience and trial/error is by far the most reliable way to learn.
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Othran
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.04.13 11:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: King Rothgar
Can't comment on agony unleashed but if they employ similar tactics you should avoid them too.
I don't know what they're like now they have sov, but when I was a member it was small/medium gang work mainly.
I'd say that anyone new to PvP would find the PvP-Basic course a great help. A lot of more "experienced" (in their opinion) pilots I know would benefit too.
The SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do to improve your abilities is to fly solo. It is one of the best ways to learn what you are fighting against. You can read all you like, you can study killboards/fits but until you get out there solo you aren't going to be fully up to speed.
Solo can be a bit daunting at first, so fly with a couple of friends. That way you can usually fit a slot with some EWAR (sometimes difficult solo) and have eyes both sides of a gate - for example. You'd be surprised how much of a difference having 2-3 people makes.
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Wensley
Minmatar
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.13 12:01:00 -
[23]
I joined a corp that taught me the basics of PvP and took me out in gangs. The main thing they did was just encourage me to get out there so I headed to Amamake with a stack of Rifters and I've never looked back.
Find a good supportive corp, look at doing an Agony basic class, and then just go out there and give it a go.
Best of luck to you!
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Beltantis Torrence
Groovy Guns
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Posted - 2010.04.13 12:12:00 -
[24]
Experience.
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Lord Zekk
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.13 12:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Wensley
I joined a corp that taught me the basics of PvP and took me out in gangs. The main thing they did was just encourage me to get out there so I headed to Amamake with a stack of Rifters and I've never looked back.
Find a good supportive corp, look at doing an Agony basic class, and then just go out there and give it a go.
Best of luck to you!
Read this man's rifter guide.
We are recruiting. http://www.22ndbrdu.com
In game channel: Arta-X |
Makin' Bacon
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Posted - 2010.04.13 13:26:00 -
[26]
Wow, thanks for all the great responses, everyone.
This is not my main, but I am currently in RvB as I figured that this would be a good place to get some combat experience. And while I have learned a lot there (as someone mentioned above, learning how to control those "combat shakes" has been the big part, learning how to find/target/engage enemies quickly, follow FC commands, etc) I do want to eventually move onto bigger ships and more involved warfare (like electronic warfare which is mostly not allowed in RvB).
But I will consider doing an Agony unleashed course, I am sure they have something to teach me, and will probably just keep doing what I am doing (reading, fitting, watching, dying) and saying to myself "I learn more when I lose then when I win."
Thanks again.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.13 14:13:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Makin' Bacon
"I learn more when I lose then when I win."
Probably the only mantra worth its salt when it comes to PvP .. dying so that you may live 
Tally Ho!
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Smabs
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Posted - 2010.04.13 15:39:00 -
[28]
Getting past the adrenalin rush is something that comes with time. The first few fights you're going to make a lot of silly mistakes so that's why it's a good idea to start out in frigs and dessies before moving onto more expensive stuff.
As far as fittings go I'd say go with the cookie cutter stuff first, but try and think about why a fitting is good. Scrapheap Challenge has an excellent forum for pvp fittings and explanations of why a ship fitting is good or terrible. Also try and remember about stuff that might not be terribly obvious at first, like the importance of tracking, speed, agility and cap usage rather than just simple damage/tank stats.
Being aware of stuff like bait, traps, camps and incoming gangs is something that just comes with time and practice.
As far as learning goes, well, solo is just about the most difficult thing to do, but you also learn the most from it. You can screw up a bit in a gang but if you make a mistake solo it usually means your death, so it really does teach you to be a better player.
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Mattk50
Executive Intervention
Primary.
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Posted - 2010.04.13 16:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Greymoon Avatar
You want to PvP?
Get a Rifter and learn to fly it...
You want to die repeatedly and eventually emoragequit?
Get any other frigate and fight a Rifter...
kestrels can be fit without much trouble to kill rifters easily. try again. |
RagingRifter
Minmatar
Cow Boys From HeII
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Posted - 2010.04.13 17:28:00 -
[30]
the way i learned how to pvp was from can flipping. bait and switch and other stuff like that. learning in a frigate how to fight is the best way to understand.
The size of your forum sig is way off. Please see Forum Rule 3: Maximum height 120 pixels, maximum file size 24,000 bytes. Shadow.
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