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Moon Mining Profits II

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Morlocke	Posted - 2004.12.07 00:00:00 - [91] Very interesting stuff here - I think it may also help the owners of POS' that while currently the world costs a lot of money to fuel your stations, that is likely to change over the next month. Reason being that there are about a billion miners in empire space, and many many ice fields to tackle. At present, we're only a week or so into this release, and only those few miners who actually were prepared (i.e., not me) are driving your fuel trucks: mining barges. If I recall right (someone correct me if I'm mistaken), mining barges are the only way to get ice products out of ice fields, and these are integral parts of your fuel supply. Miners are going to need both Industry L5 (which most won't have) and Astrogeology to L5 (which some might) before they can even lay hands on a L1 mining barge, and even then they'll probably use it to strip veld and scord for a while, but before too long you'll get some entrepreneurial guys (hopefully like me <g>) to come out and start harvesting ice. Hope this helps - M
Morlocke	Posted - 2004.12.07 00:00:00 - [92] Very interesting stuff here - I think it may also help the owners of POS' that while currently the world costs a lot of money to fuel your stations, that is likely to change over the next month. Reason being that there are about a billion miners in empire space, and many many ice fields to tackle. At present, we're only a week or so into this release, and only those few miners who actually were prepared (i.e., not me) are driving your fuel trucks: mining barges. If I recall right (someone correct me if I'm mistaken), mining barges are the only way to get ice products out of ice fields, and these are integral parts of your fuel supply. Miners are going to need both Industry L5 (which most won't have) and Astrogeology to L5 (which some might) before they can even lay hands on a L1 mining barge, and even then they'll probably use it to strip veld and scord for a while, but before too long you'll get some entrepreneurial guys (hopefully like me <g>) to come out and start harvesting ice. Hope this helps - M
Lygos	Posted - 2004.12.07 04:21:00 - [93] I personally am discouraging my comrades in materials acquisitions from specializing in ice harvesting until such a time as the POS industry can prove sustainable. You need more than hubris to drive a market.
Lygos	Posted - 2004.12.07 04:21:00 - [94] I personally am discouraging my comrades in materials acquisitions from specializing in ice harvesting until such a time as the POS industry can prove sustainable. You need more than hubris to drive a market.
voidvim	Posted - 2004.12.08 13:29:00 - [95] Originally by: Morlocke Miners are going to need both Industry L5 (which most won't have) and Astrogeology to L5 you need Astrogeology to L4 for teh small and meduim mining barge
voidvim	Posted - 2004.12.08 13:29:00 - [96] Originally by: Morlocke Miners are going to need both Industry L5 (which most won't have) and Astrogeology to L5 you need Astrogeology to L4 for teh small and meduim mining barge
Helmut 314	Posted - 2004.12.08 17:15:00 - [97] Thing is, Ice mining and refining takes more skills and has a smaller market than ordinary ore. If the ice is sold below base prices, ice mining becomes less intersting since one can use the nice barge skills to mine scordite and make more isk. One advantage of ice mining is of course that the ice roids are hard to pop, one belt lasts quite a while.... ___________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Helmut 314	Posted - 2004.12.08 17:15:00 - [98] Thing is, Ice mining and refining takes more skills and has a smaller market than ordinary ore. If the ice is sold below base prices, ice mining becomes less intersting since one can use the nice barge skills to mine scordite and make more isk. One advantage of ice mining is of course that the ice roids are hard to pop, one belt lasts quite a while.... ___________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Alcatraz	Posted - 2004.12.09 13:57:00 - [99] Looks like everything is connected to the profit of minng Scord. When all the barge miners will start to mine Scord the price on trit and pyer will drop. Then people will go mine Ice and the price of ice will drop to. And POS will be a litle cheaper to run. Alcatraz
Alcatraz	Posted - 2004.12.09 13:57:00 - [100] Looks like everything is connected to the profit of minng Scord. When all the barge miners will start to mine Scord the price on trit and pyer will drop. Then people will go mine Ice and the price of ice will drop to. And POS will be a litle cheaper to run. Alcatraz

Tos' Lavoch	Posted - 2004.12.09 17:31:00 - [101] CCP should have done it the other way around, expensive to buy but cheaper to maintain.
Tos' Lavoch	Posted - 2004.12.09 17:31:00 - [102] CCP should have done it the other way around, expensive to buy but cheaper to maintain.
Mistress D'Malice	Posted - 2004.12.09 18:32:00 - [103] Edited by: Mistress D'Malice on 09/12/2004 18:36:31 Actually folks, getting into an medium mining barge is MUCH MUCH easier then getting into an apoc for a new player. Starting off as a new character it will take about 2-3 weeks to be able to run a medium barge based on Eve-I skill calq. And barge is about 1/10 of the price of an apoc so comparing the two is rather rediculous. Ice mining will be a quicker way for younger players to make cash...and at current HIGH market prices you can make almost as much ISK as mining scordite in an apoc with mining 10 per hour. Personally, ice product pricing is about twice as expensive as it should be based on skill training and initial ISK invested and will be coming down within 2 weeks. As ice product prices drop, so does the overall cost of running POS's over time. Black Lotus Official Forums - www.blacklotusclan.com Contact Me - [email protected]
Mistress D'Malice	Posted - 2004.12.09 18:32:00 - [104] Edited by: Mistress D'Malice on 09/12/2004 18:36:31 Actually folks, getting into an medium mining barge is MUCH MUCH easier then getting into an apoc for a new player. Starting off as a new character it will take about 2-3 weeks to be able to run a medium barge based on Eve-I skill calq. And barge is about 1/10 of the price of an apoc so comparing the two is rather rediculous. Ice mining will be a quicker way for younger players to make cash...and at current HIGH market prices you can make almost as much ISK as mining scordite in an apoc with mining 10 per hour. Personally, ice product pricing is about twice as expensive as it should be based on skill training and initial ISK invested and will be coming down within 2 weeks. As ice product prices drop, so does the overall cost of running POS's over time. Black Lotus Official Forums - www.blacklotusclan.com Contact Me - [email protected]
Therian	Posted - 2004.12.10 05:37:00 - [105] Originally by: Mistress D'Malice Edited by: Mistress D'Malice on 09/12/2004 18:36:31 Actually folks, getting into an medium mining barge is MUCH MUCH easier then getting into an apoc for a new player. Starting off as a new character it will take about 2-3 weeks to be able to run a medium barge based on Eve-I skill calq. And barge is about 1/10 of the price of an apoc so comparing the two is rather rediculous. Ice mining will be a quicker way for younger players to make cash...and at current HIGH market prices you can make almost as much ISK as mining scordite in an apoc with mining 10 per hour. Personally, ice product pricing is about twice as expensive as it should be based on skill training and initial ISK invested and will be coming down within 2 weeks. As ice product prices drop, so does the overall cost of running POS's over time. Miss Malice, it's nice to see intelligent posting from some of us. Well, for all my calculations involving POS, I assumed that people would want to be paid the equivalent mining of Scordite. My best calculations (highest price) came to about 2.5 mil per hour (no drones, though) with a Medium Barge. That's 14 units of ice, though. So 2.5 mil / 14 = 171k per ice chunk, which runs your station for 30 minutes. I didn't compare this to an Apoc, and don't see much need. I'd rather mine in an expendable ship and replace it a couple of times. However, I would like to see Ice prices go down a little. The problem there is this: as soon as people start buying, it goes up....that's just economics. ________________________________ Therian Dreamscape Chief Financial Officer Director of Manufacturing and Sales
Therian	Posted - 2004.12.10 05:37:00 - [106] Originally by: Mistress D'Malice Edited by: Mistress D'Malice on 09/12/2004 18:36:31 Actually folks, getting into an medium mining barge is MUCH MUCH easier then getting into an apoc for a new player. Starting off as a new character it will take about 2-3 weeks to be able to run a medium barge based on Eve-I skill calq. And barge is about 1/10 of the price of an apoc so comparing the two is rather rediculous. Ice mining will be a quicker way for younger players to make cash...and at current HIGH market prices you can make almost as much ISK as mining scordite in an apoc with mining 10 per hour. Personally, ice product pricing is about twice as expensive as it should be based on skill training and initial ISK invested and will be coming down within 2 weeks. As ice product prices drop, so does the overall cost of running POS's over time. Miss Malice, it's nice to see intelligent posting from some of us. Well, for all my calculations involving POS, I assumed that people would want to be paid the equivalent mining of Scordite. My best calculations (highest price) came to about 2.5 mil per hour (no drones, though) with a Medium Barge. That's 14 units of ice, though. So 2.5 mil / 14 = 171k per ice chunk, which runs your station for 30 minutes. I didn't compare this to an Apoc, and don't see much need. I'd rather mine in an expendable ship and replace it a couple of times. However, I would like to see Ice prices go down a little. The problem there is this: as soon as people start buying, it goes up....that's just economics. ________________________________ Therian Dreamscape Chief Financial Officer Director of Manufacturing and Sales
Deva Dimentia	Posted - 2004.12.10 09:18:00 - [107] You did the number crunches for 1 moon harvester with abondance of 1 on the minerals if I read correctly, a couple of questions can more than 1 moon harvester mine the same material?,how many moon harvesters can be running on a given POS? if the answer to these questions are more than one, our corp is planning to have a POS running with 10 moon harvesters, currently we havent scanned any moons so currently no set mineral we going to mine.
Deva Dimentia	Posted - 2004.12.10 09:18:00 - [108] You did the number crunches for 1 moon harvester with abondance of 1 on the minerals if I read correctly, a couple of questions can more than 1 moon harvester mine the same material?,how many moon harvesters can be running on a given POS? if the answer to these questions are more than one, our corp is planning to have a POS running with 10 moon harvesters, currently we havent scanned any moons so currently no set mineral we going to mine.
Dathias	Posted - 2004.12.10 10:21:00 - [109] currently i have seen only few moons with 4 types raw materials. Every raw material has 1 unit. (you can setup only 1 harvester for this material) = for moon with 4 types you can setup 4 moon harvesters.
Dathias	Posted - 2004.12.10 10:21:00 - [110] currently i have seen only few moons with 4 types raw materials. Every raw material has 1 unit. (you can setup only 1 harvester for this material) = for moon with 4 types you can setup 4 moon harvesters.

Orion Shurtak	Posted - 2004.12.10 12:21:00 - [111] One thing to remember about the POS is that power and CPU of the towers are not unlimited. I have read a couple posts with poeple saying they are going to run many harvestors. Well for each harvestor running, you need something to dump the material into, be it a silo or a reactor, it takes massive amounts of CPU. My corp runs an amarr POS. 5500 cpu is what we are lmited to. If I bring online 3 harvetors, a reactor, and 2 silos, my cpu is maxed. Keep in mind I have 8 sentry guns and a maint array which I dont think requires CPU, but if it does that is only a small part. You POS race will determine your CPU and POWER grid. Keep that in mind when planning your POS. -------------------------------------------------- You wouldn't shoot an old man would you?
Orion Shurtak	Posted - 2004.12.10 12:21:00 - [112] One thing to remember about the POS is that power and CPU of the towers are not unlimited. I have read a couple posts with poeple saying they are going to run many harvestors. Well for each harvestor running, you need something to dump the material into, be it a silo or a reactor, it takes massive amounts of CPU. My corp runs an amarr POS. 5500 cpu is what we are lmited to. If I bring online 3 harvetors, a reactor, and 2 silos, my cpu is maxed. Keep in mind I have 8 sentry guns and a maint array which I dont think requires CPU, but if it does that is only a small part. You POS race will determine your CPU and POWER grid. Keep that in mind when planning your POS. -------------------------------------------------- You wouldn't shoot an old man would you?
Mistress D'Malice	Posted - 2004.12.10 16:47:00 - [113] Originally by: Therian However, I would like to see Ice prices go down a little. The problem there is this: as soon as people start buying, it goes up....that's just economics. Thats true...but as the deman goes up...so will the number of people mining it and then again the prices will settle. The problem we will have is if the current suppliers for ice products raise there prices out of greed rather then to stabilize the market. Responsible parties will set a prices that is fair rather then raping the market for all its worth... Black Lotus Official Forums - www.blacklotusclan.com Contact Me - [email protected]
Mistress D'Malice	Posted - 2004.12.10 16:47:00 - [114] Originally by: Therian However, I would like to see Ice prices go down a little. The problem there is this: as soon as people start buying, it goes up....that's just economics. Thats true...but as the deman goes up...so will the number of people mining it and then again the prices will settle. The problem we will have is if the current suppliers for ice products raise there prices out of greed rather then to stabilize the market. Responsible parties will set a prices that is fair rather then raping the market for all its worth... Black Lotus Official Forums - www.blacklotusclan.com Contact Me - [email protected]
Therian	Posted - 2004.12.10 19:49:00 - [115] Originally by: Deva Dimentia You did the number crunches for 1 moon harvester with abondance of 1 on the minerals if I read correctly, a couple of questions can more than 1 moon harvester mine the same material?,how many moon harvesters can be running on a given POS? if the answer to these questions are more than one, our corp is planning to have a POS running with 10 moon harvesters, currently we havent scanned any moons so currently no set mineral we going to mine. Good luck. CPU/Power wise, you can do this. However, I want to see where you store the raw materials. Those 10 Moon Harvesters will take 5000 CPU, which is fine. However, one silo in which to store takes 750 CPU, the Reactor takes 2500 CPU. Unless you babysit this thing, you'll not do much at all (yes, I realize the storage capacity of a silo is 9600m3, and each hour adds no more than 100m3 per moon harvester). But also, bear in mind that I have yet to find a moon with more than a total of 4 (counting duplicates as separate minerals). That means you can only have 4 Moon Harvesters. Just something to think about :) ________________________________ Therian Dreamscape Chief Financial Officer Director of Manufacturing and Sales
Therian	Posted - 2004.12.10 19:49:00 - [116] Originally by: Deva Dimentia You did the number crunches for 1 moon harvester with abondance of 1 on the minerals if I read correctly, a couple of questions can more than 1 moon harvester mine the same material?,how many moon harvesters can be running on a given POS? if the answer to these questions are more than one, our corp is planning to have a POS running with 10 moon harvesters, currently we havent scanned any moons so currently no set mineral we going to mine. Good luck. CPU/Power wise, you can do this. However, I want to see where you store the raw materials. Those 10 Moon Harvesters will take 5000 CPU, which is fine. However, one silo in which to store takes 750 CPU, the Reactor takes 2500 CPU. Unless you babysit this thing, you'll not do much at all (yes, I realize the storage capacity of a silo is 9600m3, and each hour adds no more than 100m3 per moon harvester). But also, bear in mind that I have yet to find a moon with more than a total of 4 (counting duplicates as separate minerals). That means you can only have 4 Moon Harvesters. Just something to think about :) ________________________________ Therian Dreamscape Chief Financial Officer Director of Manufacturing and Sales
Deva Dimentia	Posted - 2004.12.10 21:05:00 - [117] thank you for the reply , ill replan the POS we have to include the info you all have supplyed.
Deva Dimentia	Posted - 2004.12.10 21:05:00 - [118] thank you for the reply , ill replan the POS we have to include the info you all have supplyed.
Strikeman	Posted - 2004.12.14 02:59:00 - [119] Edited by: Strikeman on 14/12/2004 06:59:09 edit: oops too late here. it is not in any way possible to setup 10 harvies AND have them running like they should (= without dumping the materials in plain space, which means you're just wasting cpu). it works like this: harvester -> silo or: harvester -> reactor -> silo harv/silo ->^ ... ->^ if you're thinking about making a complex reaction AND a simple reaction AND mining at the same POS, you'd best switch to Caldari towers (7500 cpu ?). Gallente (6750 cpu) can just do it but it's kinda kinky. POS ownership also isn't that expensive ppl. What baseprice are u using ? ATM we are well below 10mio/day per POS. -- NAGAmazon webshop ISK is not your goal.
Strikeman	Posted - 2004.12.14 02:59:00 - [120] Edited by: Strikeman on 14/12/2004 06:59:09 edit: oops too late here. it is not in any way possible to setup 10 harvies AND have them running like they should (= without dumping the materials in plain space, which means you're just wasting cpu). it works like this: harvester -> silo or: harvester -> reactor -> silo harv/silo ->^ ... ->^ if you're thinking about making a complex reaction AND a simple reaction AND mining at the same POS, you'd best switch to Caldari towers (7500 cpu ?). Gallente (6750 cpu) can just do it but it's kinda kinky. POS ownership also isn't that expensive ppl. What baseprice are u using ? ATM we are well below 10mio/day per POS. -- NAGAmazon webshop ISK is not your goal.



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