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Spoilt EVE player base is spoilt

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Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.19 11:47:00 - [1] You are all spoilt. CCP has spoilt you with expansions. It is CCP's game, not yours, don't forget that. You are not shareholders, you shouldn't really get any say at all. You say CCP doesn't listen? Skill queue, wormholes, T2 BS, Invention, Sov 2.0, Titan DD nerf, nano nerf, ecm nerf, falcon nerf, need I go on. People hate CCP for nerfing things, people love it when CCP nerfs the things they complained about. People want CCP to not add too much new content and focus on fixing the bugs. People want more new content AND CCP to fix the bugs. People want bugs fixed and no new content. People want PI. People don't want PI. People want Incarna. People don't want Incarna. People want DUST. People don't want DUST. People think their set of values and concepts about EVE are dominant over others whose views do not coincide. So what if you pay a subscription? So do I! Most of the eve playerbase just enjoys whatever CCP implements and they don't *** on these forums. You know if I were the owner of CCP, i'd have said off a long time ago and taken the money and sold up to faceless corporation XYZ. Have they done this...no. You all sound like 4 yr olds demanding ice cream before dinner, but worse yet you are demanding no ice cream, ice cream after dinner and no dinner with just ice cream. What gives CCP consensus? CSM. You want this to be a democracy then go through CSM or run for it. Stop *ing about stuff that quite frankly most of you haven't even tried. Most comments on PI are from people who haven't even tested it. You know who CCP will listen to, people testing their for them. Good Day! Originally by:** Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries United Corporations Of Modern Eve	Posted - 2010.04.19 11:49:00 - [2] Edited by: Ji Sama on 19/04/2010 11:49:03 Actually i own shares in ccp, so its MY GAME.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.04.19 11:52:00 - [3] HEY CCP DEVS! You better do what I want! I am a paying customer, I pay for ALL your wages! --------
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.19 11:57:00 - [4] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 19/04/2010 11:49:03 Actually i own shares in ccp, so its MY GAME. Really because CCP is a private company. Unless you can present proof otherwise? or (troll answer) Whatever! Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
cBOLTSON Caldari Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:01:00 - [5] **ing hell! Chill out mate, you sound like your about to burst a blood vessel! lol. I do agree with you however. People shouldnt ** talk about CCP as this is a great game but people giving feedback and their opinions is healthy.
Sellmewarez	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:02:00 - [6] Now this is a post. Please post more. Much love, A new fan <3
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries United Corporations Of Modern Eve	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:06:00 - [7] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 19/04/2010 11:49:03 Actually i own shares in ccp, so its MY GAME. Really because CCP is a private company. Unless you can present proof otherwise? or (troll answer) Whatever!
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:12:00 - [8] Where do you think the value of the shares that the shareholders are holding comes from? Ohhhhh, yeah didn't think about that part didja? Cause the value of the shares comes from how many subscriptions that CCP can keep active. So yeah, we do own the game. In fact, we the players have the entire game by the balls. CCP does listen.. the problem is that it's selective hearing and even then they completely ignore really good ideas offered up by the player base in lieu of something that they themselves came up with because that's obviously a better choice than a good idea from a player. Take the Need for Speed nerf. No one was complaining about how fast interceptors and vagabonds were going. The complaint was that BC's and BS were traveling too fast to be hit by even their own class of guns. No one at all was asking for a module that completely turns off your MWD. The best need for speed idea I saw was to make stacking penalties on speed modules give more of a stacking penalty the higher the mass of the ship. Therefore a frig could fill their lows with speed modules and not have to worry about stacking penalties, but a BS could really only fit two of any speed module before the penalty produced zero returns. This was a great idea, but instead they turned everything into a flying brick and ruined active tanking in the process. Someone else made a very long and very well thought out post for how to completely revolutionize low sec in the game with black markets and a lot of other really good ideas. It got hundreds of thumbs up in the CSM voting forum and then disappeared into the mist. I would also really like to see if they took a vote on revamping low sec completely or adding Planetary Interaction into the game... which one would win? I could accept the results either way, but I think even CCP might be surprised to find out which one would win. What would be really cool of CCP is if they would start taking votes on things before just dumping whatever they want into the game. I would really like to see what the majority of players would say to incarna or PI. Something in the back of my mind tells me that the majority of players would vote on fixing lag before adding planetary interaction. Heck, they can't even keep some bugs fixed! I just realized the other day that the old bug where your ship view changes to so far zoomed in that you see the inside of your ship every time you undock or jump through a gate is BACK. I mean, really? Really?
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Take the Need for Speed nerf. No one was complaining about how fast interceptors and vagabonds were going. Um, what? Yes they were. Loudly and in numbers. Note that I'm not saying I agreed with them, but it's blatantly false to say that there were lots of complaints. Signed, Pheusia
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:25:00 - [10] To be completely fair and honest, I think CCP is one of the fewer companies that actually listens to feedback from people, for the most part. Unlike some companies I have worked for, and they are known in the world. ---- Store \| Apply
Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:40:00 - [11] I think you would do well to realise that a business is nothing without its customers. You could apply your remarks to almost any business - there are people that complain about nearly everything. They're called "critics" or "reviewers". It just happens that Eve players tend to be a lot more vocal than most, but we should consider something else... CCP suggests they have ~300k subscribers, and even taking into consideration the number of alt accounts etc, there are not anywhere near that many people on these forums, or any other, complaining about the state of the game. It's a fact that people are less likely to notice and/or comment on positive changes. I imagine that your boss is more likely to notice a mistake and comment on it, than if you just did your job with nothing going wrong. People like complaining. CCP seems to be learning to admit when they are wrong, as is the case with a recent dev blog. I'm sure this is greatly appreciated by the community at large, but there is still some way to go. Sometimes it feels like they make arbitary and sweeping changes, and often all the players really want is a better explanation as to why. It's not all about "they don't listen" but more about "they don't tell us" in a lot of cases. YMMV. I'm glad you're not in charge of CCP. Maybe this is Hilmar and co's baby, and they want to see it through. Some people raise a business purely to sell it on later, others will raise their business and go down with it at the end. I hope in their case, it is the latter. Regards, C. o'Ninetails x ♥ VOTE CAT ♥
superteds	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:43:00 - [12] ** thread is **.
TheBlueMonkey Gallente Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:53:00 - [13] With this many people, you're going to have this many contraditing ideas, some good, some bad. The trouble is CCP's odd listening habbits and no real feed back as to where the ideas came from. Walking in stations I get as it's got something to dowith some other mmo they're doing or sommin (there's facts I forget) and probably got something to do with dust to. So, same team can work on the engine for it then just skin it for eve or whatever else. I'm not especially interested in it but egh. PI I haven't read enough to see where it came from but it does appear to have just been plucked from nothing, as does the dss nerf. CCP have listened to the player base in the past and that's why we all think they'll keep listening now. What CCP really need to do is pay a team to play the game, on an alliance level, on a corp level, on a solo pve level, etc. See what happens when you jump 200 guys into a lowsec system. see what happens when you're missioning in a system with x number of other players. Read the forums, get a feel for the general concensus etc. Votes on changes would be awesome, I could live with that but ultimatly it's a game run by a company and as good as CCP have been so far we can but hope they stick at it and not buckle to a want of just making cash. That's my main concern with the "new player content" argument. The reason I came to eve, it's complex, really really complex and making it simpler just eats away at my soul :( -- Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
Nicholas Barker Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:53:00 - [14] god forbid people have conflicting opinions ------ 0800-LAG-A-NODE
Caldari Citizen20090217	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:01:00 - [15] If CCP were to float I'd buy their shares in a heartbeat >.> And confirming what Celeste has said, there seems to be a commonly held view that being rude to CCP will get people the changes they want, quicker. Or the forums are populated entirely by trolls now, with the occasional newbie who does not know better wandering in from time to time like a miner osprey through a 0.0 chokepoint. Think I'll test it.... OMG nerf cloaking, nerf local, give dramiel speed boost .... waits
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:02:00 - [16] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 19/04/2010 13:04:24 Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails I think you would do well to realise that a business is nothing without its customers. You could apply your remarks to almost any business - there are people that complain about nearly everything. They're called "critics" or "reviewers". It just happens that Eve players tend to be a lot more vocal than most, but we should consider something else... CCP suggests they have ~300k subscribers, and even taking into consideration the number of alt accounts etc, there are not anywhere near that many people on these forums, or any other, complaining about the state of the game. It's a fact that people are less likely to notice and/or comment on positive changes. I imagine that your boss is more likely to notice a mistake and comment on it, than if you just did your job with nothing going wrong. People like complaining. CCP seems to be learning to admit when they are wrong, as is the case with a recent dev blog. I'm sure this is greatly appreciated by the community at large, but there is still some way to go. Sometimes it feels like they make arbitary and sweeping changes, and often all the players really want is a better explanation as to why. It's not all about "they don't listen" but more about "they don't tell us" in a lot of cases. YMMV. I'm glad you're not in charge of CCP. Maybe this is Hilmar and co's baby, and they want to see it through. Some people raise a business purely to sell it on later, others will raise their business and go down with it at the end. I hope in their case, it is the latter. Regards, C. o'Ninetails x lol you didnt lol CCP listen at the end of the day, which is a lot more than you can say about most MMO companies who buff/nerf whatever they feel like. Helps too IMO that Hellmar actually cares about the state of the game over getting rich, It's the #1 reason I still play EVE. Yes there have been some decisions I haven't agreed with, like Warp to Zero, but overall I'm happy with how things turned out or I'd have left for good looooong ago. - Malyutka (The Virus) -
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Where do you think the value of the shares that the shareholders are holding comes from? Ohhhhh, yeah didn't think about that part didja? Cause the value of the shares comes from how many subscriptions that CCP can keep active. So yeah, we do own the game. In fact, we the players have the entire game by the balls. There are no shares, it is a private company. Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Take the Need for Speed nerf. No one was complaining about how fast interceptors and vagabonds were going. Actually vagas were one of the main targets. Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Someone else made a very long and very well thought out post for how to completely revolutionize low sec in the game with black markets and a lot of other really good ideas. It got hundreds of thumbs up in the CSM voting forum and then disappeared into the mist. I would also really like to see if they took a vote on revamping low sec completely or adding Planetary Interaction into the game... which one would win? I could accept the results either way, but I think even CCP might be surprised to find out which one would win. You'll only get players in to low sec that want to be there. The only real way is to make low-sec safe, there are plenty of rewards worth going into low sec for, if you bother to use the appropriately fit ships Originally by: Neesa Corrinne What would be really cool of CCP is if they would start taking votes on things before just dumping whatever they want into the game. I would really like to see what the majority of players would say to incarna or PI. Something in the back of my mind tells me that the majority of players would vote on fixing lag before adding planetary interaction. Heck, they can't even keep some bugs fixed! I just realized the other day that the old bug where your ship view changes to so far zoomed in that you see the inside of your ship every time you undock or jump through a gate is BACK. I mean, really? Really? Democracy is not actually good for everything. Majority rules is not preferable for the design of a dynamic, sandbox environment, democracy will kill this. CSM is the way to go, vote for your candidates wisely. Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Lexx Khadar Minmatar HellForge.	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:55:00 - [18] Personally I think players should only have a small input into any MMO's development. Too many entrenched / self centred interests. Yes its good for the player-base to suggest things to improve the game but they should never feel entitled that those things get put into action. You should just feel lucky that they consider some suggestions. never mind if they actually make action of them.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Lexx Khadar Personally I think players should only have a small input into any MMO's development. Too many entrenched / self centred interests. Yes its good for the player-base to suggest things to improve the game but they should never feel entitled that those things get put into action. You should just feel lucky that they consider some suggestions. never mind if they actually make action of them. This is the right attitude! Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Ji Sama Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 19/04/2010 11:49:03 Actually i own shares in ccp, so its MY GAME. Really because CCP is a private company. Unless you can present proof otherwise? or (troll answer) Whatever! http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/6295/fakestockcert2.jpg Image changed to link. Navigator I would of at least changed the filename...
Doc Fury	Posted - 2010.04.19 14:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Spoilt EVE player base is spoilt A lot of kids smell that way, especially the ones living in basements. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Lord Haur Amarr Reaction Theory	Posted - 2010.04.19 14:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Where do you think the value of the shares that the shareholders are holding comes from? Ohhhhh, yeah didn't think about that part didja? Cause the value of the shares comes from how many subscriptions that CCP can keep active. So yeah, we do own the game. In fact, we the players have the entire game by the balls. There are no shares, it is a private company. So? Private Limited Companies such as CCP hf. still have shares. Diference between a Public and Private company (plc. and Ltd. respectively in the UK) is more about the number and availiability of shares. in Public companies, anyone can buy shares off the stock market, whereas in Private companies any new shareholders are subject to the agreement of the current shareholders.
Syn Callibri Minmatar Swag Co. Sandbox Bullies	Posted - 2010.04.19 14:12:00 - [23] Firstly, CCP is a business...so they have resourses which may or may not (but most likely are) limited. They do what they can, when they can, the best they can. Sure there are bugs and glitches...DUH! Its coding...it happens! I for one have played a number of MMOs in the past and find that this is one of...if not, THE best as far as content and the work that the CCP devteam has put into it for this genre. How about giving the Devs and CCP in general some support instead of the Bee-atch-fest that they normally hear from a lot of the player base. I for one give CCP a high-five for all of the work they have done in the past and that they appear to be continuing in the future. Keep it up CCP! "I have just as much authority as the empress, just not as many people that believe it."
Suboran Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.19 14:14:00 - [24] who remembers star wars galaxies
S'qarpium D'igil	Posted - 2010.04.19 15:46:00 - [25] Oh look, another "I'm right and you're wrong no matter what you say!" post. OP is ironic.
Mess1ah	Posted - 2010.04.19 16:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Suboran who remembers star wars galaxies i played the first free 30 days. the empire divided.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.04.19 16:55:00 - [27] Newsflash!! Irritating memes are irritating.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.04.19 17:08:00 - [28] Celeste Coeval said ôYou are all spoilt. CCP has spoilt you with expansions. It is CCP's game, not yours, don't forget that. You are not shareholders, you shouldn't really get any say at all.ö Your having a laugh right? We are anything but spoilt. We get a higher then average price to pay and lower then average new content. We do get a say. If they ignore us and keep doing what we all hate we all leave and they go bankrupt. There business is to make products we all like and to keep us customers happy. That means listening to us at least part listening to us. Eve is an MMO with a monthly subscription. You expect a certain amount of standards from an MMO with a subscription. If CCP keep droped all new content people would quit and they would go bankrupt. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.04.19 17:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Celeste Coeval (troll answer) Whatever! And your post was a troll post, so...what's your point? --Vel Originally by: Jiseinoku Mining is the path to enlightement.
Jenne Levour	Posted - 2010.04.19 17:44:00 - [30] Edited by: Jenne Levour on 19/04/2010 17:47:01 Originally by: Pottsey Your having a laugh right? We are anything but spoilt. We get a higher then average price to pay and lower then average new content. We do get a say. If they ignore us and keep doing what we all hate we all leave and they go bankrupt. There business is to make products we all like and to keep us customers happy. That means listening to us at least part listening to us. Eve is an MMO with a monthly subscription. You expect a certain amount of standards from an MMO with a subscription. If CCP keep droped all new content people would quit and they would go bankrupt. It's funny how you say we. I don't recall anyone voting you to speak for the entire playerbase. And no, they can very well ignore the hell out of us, and do what the hell they ever want. If the content is good, I will stick around. You're right, we do get a say, which I think is goddamn luxury that this playerbase does not deserve. However, when you say their business is to make products we all like and to keep us customers happy and that means listening to the player base, this is not the case. That most certainly doesn't mean that they have to listen to us. As long as the content appeals to people, they make money. Personally I think that if they'd listen the playerbase any more, the playerbase would ruin the entire game. Since when do you recon a customer has had any idea what he needs over what he wants. When you give the customer what he wants, he comes back complaining this isn't what he needed. EVE player base is a whole lot of I-We want this, and what CCP usually gives us is what we need. The unnerving trend is they're starting to give us more and more what we want and that is not a good thing. Also, we are paying a pretty standard price for a game that gets 2 expansions with less content per year while another MMO that gets maybe one or two expansion in its entire lifespan and possibly after several years. Edit: And just wanted to add that the OP is spot on.

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