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Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.19 11:47:00 - [1] You are all spoilt. CCP has spoilt you with expansions. It is CCP's game, not yours, don't forget that. You are not shareholders, you shouldn't really get any say at all. You say CCP doesn't listen? Skill queue, wormholes, T2 BS, Invention, Sov 2.0, Titan DD nerf, nano nerf, ecm nerf, falcon nerf, need I go on. People hate CCP for nerfing things, people love it when CCP nerfs the things they complained about. People want CCP to not add too much new content and focus on fixing the bugs. People want more new content AND CCP to fix the bugs. People want bugs fixed and no new content. People want PI. People don't want PI. People want Incarna. People don't want Incarna. People want DUST. People don't want DUST. People think their set of values and concepts about EVE are dominant over others whose views do not coincide. So what if you pay a subscription? So do I! Most of the eve playerbase just enjoys whatever CCP implements and they don't *** on these forums. You know if I were the owner of CCP, i'd have said off a long time ago and taken the money and sold up to faceless corporation XYZ. Have they done this...no. You all sound like 4 yr olds demanding ice cream before dinner, but worse yet you are demanding no ice cream, ice cream after dinner and no dinner with just ice cream. What gives CCP consensus? CSM. You want this to be a democracy then go through CSM or run for it. Stop *ing about stuff that quite frankly most of you haven't even tried. Most comments on PI are from people who haven't even tested it. You know who CCP will listen to, people testing their for them. Good Day! Originally by:** Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries United Corporations Of Modern Eve	Posted - 2010.04.19 11:49:00 - [2] Edited by: Ji Sama on 19/04/2010 11:49:03 Actually i own shares in ccp, so its MY GAME.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.04.19 11:52:00 - [3] HEY CCP DEVS! You better do what I want! I am a paying customer, I pay for ALL your wages! --------
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.19 11:57:00 - [4] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 19/04/2010 11:49:03 Actually i own shares in ccp, so its MY GAME. Really because CCP is a private company. Unless you can present proof otherwise? or (troll answer) Whatever! Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
cBOLTSON Caldari Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:01:00 - [5] **ing hell! Chill out mate, you sound like your about to burst a blood vessel! lol. I do agree with you however. People shouldnt ** talk about CCP as this is a great game but people giving feedback and their opinions is healthy.
Sellmewarez	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:02:00 - [6] Now this is a post. Please post more. Much love, A new fan <3
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries United Corporations Of Modern Eve	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:06:00 - [7] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 19/04/2010 11:49:03 Actually i own shares in ccp, so its MY GAME. Really because CCP is a private company. Unless you can present proof otherwise? or (troll answer) Whatever!
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:12:00 - [8] Where do you think the value of the shares that the shareholders are holding comes from? Ohhhhh, yeah didn't think about that part didja? Cause the value of the shares comes from how many subscriptions that CCP can keep active. So yeah, we do own the game. In fact, we the players have the entire game by the balls. CCP does listen.. the problem is that it's selective hearing and even then they completely ignore really good ideas offered up by the player base in lieu of something that they themselves came up with because that's obviously a better choice than a good idea from a player. Take the Need for Speed nerf. No one was complaining about how fast interceptors and vagabonds were going. The complaint was that BC's and BS were traveling too fast to be hit by even their own class of guns. No one at all was asking for a module that completely turns off your MWD. The best need for speed idea I saw was to make stacking penalties on speed modules give more of a stacking penalty the higher the mass of the ship. Therefore a frig could fill their lows with speed modules and not have to worry about stacking penalties, but a BS could really only fit two of any speed module before the penalty produced zero returns. This was a great idea, but instead they turned everything into a flying brick and ruined active tanking in the process. Someone else made a very long and very well thought out post for how to completely revolutionize low sec in the game with black markets and a lot of other really good ideas. It got hundreds of thumbs up in the CSM voting forum and then disappeared into the mist. I would also really like to see if they took a vote on revamping low sec completely or adding Planetary Interaction into the game... which one would win? I could accept the results either way, but I think even CCP might be surprised to find out which one would win. What would be really cool of CCP is if they would start taking votes on things before just dumping whatever they want into the game. I would really like to see what the majority of players would say to incarna or PI. Something in the back of my mind tells me that the majority of players would vote on fixing lag before adding planetary interaction. Heck, they can't even keep some bugs fixed! I just realized the other day that the old bug where your ship view changes to so far zoomed in that you see the inside of your ship every time you undock or jump through a gate is BACK. I mean, really? Really?
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Take the Need for Speed nerf. No one was complaining about how fast interceptors and vagabonds were going. Um, what? Yes they were. Loudly and in numbers. Note that I'm not saying I agreed with them, but it's blatantly false to say that there were lots of complaints. Signed, Pheusia
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:25:00 - [10] To be completely fair and honest, I think CCP is one of the fewer companies that actually listens to feedback from people, for the most part. Unlike some companies I have worked for, and they are known in the world. ---- Store \| Apply
Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:40:00 - [11] I think you would do well to realise that a business is nothing without its customers. You could apply your remarks to almost any business - there are people that complain about nearly everything. They're called "critics" or "reviewers". It just happens that Eve players tend to be a lot more vocal than most, but we should consider something else... CCP suggests they have ~300k subscribers, and even taking into consideration the number of alt accounts etc, there are not anywhere near that many people on these forums, or any other, complaining about the state of the game. It's a fact that people are less likely to notice and/or comment on positive changes. I imagine that your boss is more likely to notice a mistake and comment on it, than if you just did your job with nothing going wrong. People like complaining. CCP seems to be learning to admit when they are wrong, as is the case with a recent dev blog. I'm sure this is greatly appreciated by the community at large, but there is still some way to go. Sometimes it feels like they make arbitary and sweeping changes, and often all the players really want is a better explanation as to why. It's not all about "they don't listen" but more about "they don't tell us" in a lot of cases. YMMV. I'm glad you're not in charge of CCP. Maybe this is Hilmar and co's baby, and they want to see it through. Some people raise a business purely to sell it on later, others will raise their business and go down with it at the end. I hope in their case, it is the latter. Regards, C. o'Ninetails x ♥ VOTE CAT ♥
superteds	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:43:00 - [12] ** thread is **.
TheBlueMonkey Gallente Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:53:00 - [13] With this many people, you're going to have this many contraditing ideas, some good, some bad. The trouble is CCP's odd listening habbits and no real feed back as to where the ideas came from. Walking in stations I get as it's got something to dowith some other mmo they're doing or sommin (there's facts I forget) and probably got something to do with dust to. So, same team can work on the engine for it then just skin it for eve or whatever else. I'm not especially interested in it but egh. PI I haven't read enough to see where it came from but it does appear to have just been plucked from nothing, as does the dss nerf. CCP have listened to the player base in the past and that's why we all think they'll keep listening now. What CCP really need to do is pay a team to play the game, on an alliance level, on a corp level, on a solo pve level, etc. See what happens when you jump 200 guys into a lowsec system. see what happens when you're missioning in a system with x number of other players. Read the forums, get a feel for the general concensus etc. Votes on changes would be awesome, I could live with that but ultimatly it's a game run by a company and as good as CCP have been so far we can but hope they stick at it and not buckle to a want of just making cash. That's my main concern with the "new player content" argument. The reason I came to eve, it's complex, really really complex and making it simpler just eats away at my soul :( -- Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
Nicholas Barker Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:53:00 - [14] god forbid people have conflicting opinions ------ 0800-LAG-A-NODE
Caldari Citizen20090217	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:01:00 - [15] If CCP were to float I'd buy their shares in a heartbeat >.> And confirming what Celeste has said, there seems to be a commonly held view that being rude to CCP will get people the changes they want, quicker. Or the forums are populated entirely by trolls now, with the occasional newbie who does not know better wandering in from time to time like a miner osprey through a 0.0 chokepoint. Think I'll test it.... OMG nerf cloaking, nerf local, give dramiel speed boost .... waits
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:02:00 - [16] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 19/04/2010 13:04:24 Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails I think you would do well to realise that a business is nothing without its customers. You could apply your remarks to almost any business - there are people that complain about nearly everything. They're called "critics" or "reviewers". It just happens that Eve players tend to be a lot more vocal than most, but we should consider something else... CCP suggests they have ~300k subscribers, and even taking into consideration the number of alt accounts etc, there are not anywhere near that many people on these forums, or any other, complaining about the state of the game. It's a fact that people are less likely to notice and/or comment on positive changes. I imagine that your boss is more likely to notice a mistake and comment on it, than if you just did your job with nothing going wrong. People like complaining. CCP seems to be learning to admit when they are wrong, as is the case with a recent dev blog. I'm sure this is greatly appreciated by the community at large, but there is still some way to go. Sometimes it feels like they make arbitary and sweeping changes, and often all the players really want is a better explanation as to why. It's not all about "they don't listen" but more about "they don't tell us" in a lot of cases. YMMV. I'm glad you're not in charge of CCP. Maybe this is Hilmar and co's baby, and they want to see it through. Some people raise a business purely to sell it on later, others will raise their business and go down with it at the end. I hope in their case, it is the latter. Regards, C. o'Ninetails x lol you didnt lol CCP listen at the end of the day, which is a lot more than you can say about most MMO companies who buff/nerf whatever they feel like. Helps too IMO that Hellmar actually cares about the state of the game over getting rich, It's the #1 reason I still play EVE. Yes there have been some decisions I haven't agreed with, like Warp to Zero, but overall I'm happy with how things turned out or I'd have left for good looooong ago. - Malyutka (The Virus) -
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Where do you think the value of the shares that the shareholders are holding comes from? Ohhhhh, yeah didn't think about that part didja? Cause the value of the shares comes from how many subscriptions that CCP can keep active. So yeah, we do own the game. In fact, we the players have the entire game by the balls. There are no shares, it is a private company. Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Take the Need for Speed nerf. No one was complaining about how fast interceptors and vagabonds were going. Actually vagas were one of the main targets. Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Someone else made a very long and very well thought out post for how to completely revolutionize low sec in the game with black markets and a lot of other really good ideas. It got hundreds of thumbs up in the CSM voting forum and then disappeared into the mist. I would also really like to see if they took a vote on revamping low sec completely or adding Planetary Interaction into the game... which one would win? I could accept the results either way, but I think even CCP might be surprised to find out which one would win. You'll only get players in to low sec that want to be there. The only real way is to make low-sec safe, there are plenty of rewards worth going into low sec for, if you bother to use the appropriately fit ships Originally by: Neesa Corrinne What would be really cool of CCP is if they would start taking votes on things before just dumping whatever they want into the game. I would really like to see what the majority of players would say to incarna or PI. Something in the back of my mind tells me that the majority of players would vote on fixing lag before adding planetary interaction. Heck, they can't even keep some bugs fixed! I just realized the other day that the old bug where your ship view changes to so far zoomed in that you see the inside of your ship every time you undock or jump through a gate is BACK. I mean, really? Really? Democracy is not actually good for everything. Majority rules is not preferable for the design of a dynamic, sandbox environment, democracy will kill this. CSM is the way to go, vote for your candidates wisely. Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Lexx Khadar Minmatar HellForge.	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:55:00 - [18] Personally I think players should only have a small input into any MMO's development. Too many entrenched / self centred interests. Yes its good for the player-base to suggest things to improve the game but they should never feel entitled that those things get put into action. You should just feel lucky that they consider some suggestions. never mind if they actually make action of them.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Lexx Khadar Personally I think players should only have a small input into any MMO's development. Too many entrenched / self centred interests. Yes its good for the player-base to suggest things to improve the game but they should never feel entitled that those things get put into action. You should just feel lucky that they consider some suggestions. never mind if they actually make action of them. This is the right attitude! Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.04.19 13:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Ji Sama Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 19/04/2010 11:49:03 Actually i own shares in ccp, so its MY GAME. Really because CCP is a private company. Unless you can present proof otherwise? or (troll answer) Whatever! http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/6295/fakestockcert2.jpg Image changed to link. Navigator I would of at least changed the filename...
Doc Fury	Posted - 2010.04.19 14:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Spoilt EVE player base is spoilt A lot of kids smell that way, especially the ones living in basements. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Lord Haur Amarr Reaction Theory	Posted - 2010.04.19 14:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Where do you think the value of the shares that the shareholders are holding comes from? Ohhhhh, yeah didn't think about that part didja? Cause the value of the shares comes from how many subscriptions that CCP can keep active. So yeah, we do own the game. In fact, we the players have the entire game by the balls. There are no shares, it is a private company. So? Private Limited Companies such as CCP hf. still have shares. Diference between a Public and Private company (plc. and Ltd. respectively in the UK) is more about the number and availiability of shares. in Public companies, anyone can buy shares off the stock market, whereas in Private companies any new shareholders are subject to the agreement of the current shareholders.
Syn Callibri Minmatar Swag Co. Sandbox Bullies	Posted - 2010.04.19 14:12:00 - [23] Firstly, CCP is a business...so they have resourses which may or may not (but most likely are) limited. They do what they can, when they can, the best they can. Sure there are bugs and glitches...DUH! Its coding...it happens! I for one have played a number of MMOs in the past and find that this is one of...if not, THE best as far as content and the work that the CCP devteam has put into it for this genre. How about giving the Devs and CCP in general some support instead of the Bee-atch-fest that they normally hear from a lot of the player base. I for one give CCP a high-five for all of the work they have done in the past and that they appear to be continuing in the future. Keep it up CCP! "I have just as much authority as the empress, just not as many people that believe it."
Suboran Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.19 14:14:00 - [24] who remembers star wars galaxies
S'qarpium D'igil	Posted - 2010.04.19 15:46:00 - [25] Oh look, another "I'm right and you're wrong no matter what you say!" post. OP is ironic.
Mess1ah	Posted - 2010.04.19 16:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Suboran who remembers star wars galaxies i played the first free 30 days. the empire divided.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.04.19 16:55:00 - [27] Newsflash!! Irritating memes are irritating.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.04.19 17:08:00 - [28] Celeste Coeval said ôYou are all spoilt. CCP has spoilt you with expansions. It is CCP's game, not yours, don't forget that. You are not shareholders, you shouldn't really get any say at all.ö Your having a laugh right? We are anything but spoilt. We get a higher then average price to pay and lower then average new content. We do get a say. If they ignore us and keep doing what we all hate we all leave and they go bankrupt. There business is to make products we all like and to keep us customers happy. That means listening to us at least part listening to us. Eve is an MMO with a monthly subscription. You expect a certain amount of standards from an MMO with a subscription. If CCP keep droped all new content people would quit and they would go bankrupt. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.04.19 17:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Celeste Coeval (troll answer) Whatever! And your post was a troll post, so...what's your point? --Vel Originally by: Jiseinoku Mining is the path to enlightement.
Jenne Levour	Posted - 2010.04.19 17:44:00 - [30] Edited by: Jenne Levour on 19/04/2010 17:47:01 Originally by: Pottsey Your having a laugh right? We are anything but spoilt. We get a higher then average price to pay and lower then average new content. We do get a say. If they ignore us and keep doing what we all hate we all leave and they go bankrupt. There business is to make products we all like and to keep us customers happy. That means listening to us at least part listening to us. Eve is an MMO with a monthly subscription. You expect a certain amount of standards from an MMO with a subscription. If CCP keep droped all new content people would quit and they would go bankrupt. It's funny how you say we. I don't recall anyone voting you to speak for the entire playerbase. And no, they can very well ignore the hell out of us, and do what the hell they ever want. If the content is good, I will stick around. You're right, we do get a say, which I think is goddamn luxury that this playerbase does not deserve. However, when you say their business is to make products we all like and to keep us customers happy and that means listening to the player base, this is not the case. That most certainly doesn't mean that they have to listen to us. As long as the content appeals to people, they make money. Personally I think that if they'd listen the playerbase any more, the playerbase would ruin the entire game. Since when do you recon a customer has had any idea what he needs over what he wants. When you give the customer what he wants, he comes back complaining this isn't what he needed. EVE player base is a whole lot of I-We want this, and what CCP usually gives us is what we need. The unnerving trend is they're starting to give us more and more what we want and that is not a good thing. Also, we are paying a pretty standard price for a game that gets 2 expansions with less content per year while another MMO that gets maybe one or two expansion in its entire lifespan and possibly after several years. Edit: And just wanted to add that the OP is spot on.
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.04.19 17:47:00 - [31] Before Eve was released EVE existed...and it was made without the help of subscribers. They don't need us to make a game that will sell...they need us to continue to work on EVE. We stop paying and they move on to other games. Be happy with what they release and stop *****ing. It's okay to add your two-cents. Don't like it go play a different game.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.19 17:53:00 - [32] Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil Oh look, another "I'm right and you're wrong no matter what you say!" post. OP is ironic. I am fully aware of the irony Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:02:00 - [33] Originally by: Pottsey Celeste Coeval said ôYou are all spoilt. CCP has spoilt you with expansions. It is CCP's game, not yours, don't forget that. You are not shareholders, you shouldn't really get any say at all.ö Your having a laugh right? We are anything but spoilt. We get a higher then average price to pay and lower then average new content. We do get a say. If they ignore us and keep doing what we all hate we all leave and they go bankrupt. There business is to make products we all like and to keep us customers happy. That means listening to us at least part listening to us. Eve is an MMO with a monthly subscription. You expect a certain amount of standards from an MMO with a subscription. If CCP keep droped all new content people would quit and they would go bankrupt. You don't seem to get that you are speaking for yourself... The fact that you disagree with me shows that there are other opinions about what CCP does right and wrong other than your own. I get the standards from CCP I want, that is why I and you are on these forums and not another MMO. Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: Celeste Coeval (troll answer) Whatever! And your post was a troll post, so...what's your point? exasperation is what I am exhibiting, I am not trolling. Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
H4rbringer	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:07:00 - [34] Edited by: H4rbringer on 19/04/2010 18:15:28 Originally by: Ildryn Before Eve was released EVE existed...and it was made without the help of subscribers. They don't need us to make a game that will sell...they need us to continue to work on EVE. We stop paying and they move on to other games. Be happy with what they release and stop ***ing. It's okay to add your two-cents. Don't like it go play a different game. same as any other **ing game edit how are the polar bears anyway.
Jeneroux Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:21:00 - [35] It is a mistake to think that CCP is not aware of the player concerns or they fail to act on this knowledge. CCP has the facts which tell them what player wants. They have actual statistic on: Play style demographic and profession Ship popularity Fit popularity System popularity They see the market in the truest form. It is not necessary for CCP to guess how to make people happy. They know this. The subscription number growth is proof. I do not have complaint to CCP. I have things I do not like.. but other player like.. so enjoy what I do like.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:23:00 - [36] Celeste Coeval said " You don't seem to get that you are speaking for yourself... The fact that you disagree with me shows that there are other opinions about what CCP does right and wrong other than your own. I get the standards from CCP I want, that is why I and you are on these forums and not another MMO." I get I am speaking for myself. But you seem to be posting your opinions as though they are facts. I used facts and the facts are we are not spoilt. We pay more cash for less content on average then other MMO's or even Eve's own past. Which means we cannot be spoilt. Being spoilt is the opposite where you get more content for less cash. Go look at Eve past standard of content and we are worse off now in that we get far less for our money when looking at a new content point of view. Compared to Eve's past we are not spoilt, we are getting much less and its costing more. You might get the standard from CCP you want. But the fact is CCP standards have dropped in that they give way less content now then they used to and charge more for it. This is not opinion this is fact that anyone can see by looking at the older expansions and the cheaper price of playing back then more so if you live in the EU where Eve costs way more than average for an MMO. Some of us are disappointed that CCP standard of content has dropped as we barely get any new content anymore. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
H4rbringer	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:29:00 - [37] you suck. do someshing new
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:56:00 - [38] Originally by: Lexx Khadar Personally I think players should only have a small input into any MMO's development. Too many entrenched / self centred interests. Yes its good for the player-base to suggest things to improve the game but they should never feel entitled that those things get put into action. You should just feel lucky that they consider some suggestions. never mind if they actually make action of them. I agree with this. If CCP catered to every whim some group of players had, EVE would be an unplayable mess (in before "lol it's already an unplayable mess lol"). Players still get a say in the direction the game takes with their wallets--if the game is not something they enjoy, they can always stop playing. That said, I'm really disappointed with what it looks like Tyrannis will be, and I'm entitled to be disappointed. But this is not so much that it's not what I want from it, but the fact that it's not what CCP described at FanFest (which happened to be exactly what I wanted from it).
Mr Majeeka Amarr THE DISC	Posted - 2010.04.19 19:41:00 - [39] The fact remains that CCP will never please everybody! We all think we know best and with anyhting in life a conflicting opinion causes conflict. It is perhaps worth bearing in mind that CCP one way or the other have the player base at heart. Some things work, somethings don't, some people like the changes or new content, but some people dont, but to think CCP neither listens nor cares is quite a narrow minded view. Perhaps where CCP may fail is constructive imput into ideas that are made for us all to see, perhaps more open discussion in the way of web conferencing, live chat, workshops similar to that at fanfest or even player base wide voting. At least we would all feel we have "had our say" and we as the player base would feel more in touch. The wonderful thing is that Eve must be an amazing game to stir up such passion amongst its playerbase, new and old, and perhaps we all need to take a step back sometimes and appreciate what we have, rather than wonder about what we don't.
Devan Reale	Posted - 2010.04.20 01:14:00 - [40] tl; dr WTF is "spoilt"? Didn't read past first sentence because of spelling/grammar.
Benri Konpaku	Posted - 2010.04.20 01:42:00 - [41] Originally by: Devan Reale tl; dr WTF is "spoilt"? Didn't read past first sentence because of spelling/grammar. Sad part is spoilt seems to be a valid word (I know ), no matter how wrong it sounds. But don't worry, you didn't miss anything worth reading anyway. Spoilt seems like a very fitting description of the thread. __________ "Welcome, to city 17. It's safer here."
Henri Rearden Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.04.20 01:58:00 - [42] Dear God, I hope they don't start putting everything to a vote by the playerbase. I'll have cancelled my account faster than L33T PVPers whine or carebears shed tears, and I wouldn't be the only one. As much as I've seen lots of constructive posts on the forums, I've seen FAR more idiocy than I ever anticipated, along with an absolutely apalling level of the worst kind of trolling. I think 85% of forum posts could be deleted and it would be an improvement since they aren't constructive at all. In no way, shape, or form do I want the playerbase having more power than electing the CSM. No, none, nothing, absolutely not. CCP has done a good job with the game and they have been successful in synthesizing feedback with the demands of running EVE as a business, and I don't think they should change that. It's the same idea as "mob rule" or "rule by the masses" or "unlimited direct democracy"... in practice, they're all absolutely terrifying. I'm happy to give feedback to CCP, but I'm paying to play the game, not develop it. They've got far more time than I to devote to that, far more experience, and far more information upon which to go.
Dodgy Past Amarr Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.04.20 06:13:00 - [43] In b4 the haters hating on the haters that hate the haters. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards.
yourdoingitwrong	Posted - 2010.04.20 06:22:00 - [44] and the people who hate on those people dont forget bout them.
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.04.20 06:52:00 - [45] CCP picks a list of good ideas to implement. The player base votes on a list of good ideas to pick the best one or two for the next patch. How exactly does that screw up the entire game? It's not like CCP is going to pick ideas that will ruin their own game. Some people have no ability to draw logical conclusions.
Johnny May	Posted - 2010.04.20 07:07:00 - [46] can i have your stuff?
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.04.20 07:19:00 - [47] To some people, Eve is a product that they pay for. When people are unhappy with a product they paid for, they often complain To other people, Eve is a way of life. When people complain about their way of life, they get personally offended. These people are known as fanbois, and kind of sad. The OP is of the latter group.
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.20 08:41:00 - [48] Originally by: Devan Reale tl; dr WTF is "spoilt"? Didn't read past first sentence because of spelling/grammar. I think it's a silly English way of spelling spoiled. Or maybe it's a different tense that they use. I'm not really sure. There are other words where they put a -t instead of a -ed, too. It looks weird to me too.
XenosisReaper Rising Ashes Inc. Honourable Templum of Alcedonia	Posted - 2010.04.20 09:04:00 - [49] No
King Dave Shut Up And Play	Posted - 2010.04.20 09:13:00 - [50] We have an interest in this game (Which is more than can be said for a couple of devs, the rest rule), that is why we whine. So that CCP know what is going wrong and how we feel about said stuff. If we didn't whine, nothing would get fixed or made as CCP wouldn't know what the players wanted done. You are ruining the evolution of this game by telling us to stop whining, kill yourself. "Evil Edna > just get director roles, put child **** in the corp bio and then petition ccp"
Im Blue	Posted - 2010.04.20 09:31:00 - [51] spoiled or spoilt, spoil+ing, noun ûverb (used with object) 1.to damage severely or harm (something), esp. with reference to its excellence, value, usefulness, etc.: The water stain spoiled the painting. Drought spoiled the corn crop. 2.to diminish or impair the quality of; affect detrimentally: Bad weather spoiled their vacation. 3.to impair, damage, or harm the character or nature of (someone) by unwise treatment, excessive indulgence, etc.: to spoil a child by pampering him. 4.Archaic. to strip (persons, places, etc.) of goods, valuables, etc.; plunder; pillage; despoil. 5.Archaic. to take or seize by force. ûverb (used without object) 6.to become bad, or unfit for use, as food or other perishable substances; become tainted or putrid: Milk spoils if not refrigerated. 7.to plunder, pillage, or rob.
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2010.04.20 09:38:00 - [52] Originally by: Celeste Coeval You are all spoilt. CCP has spoilt you with expansions. It is CCP's game, not yours, don't forget that. You are not shareholders, you shouldn't really get any say at all. You say CCP doesn't listen? Skill queue, wormholes, T2 BS, Invention, Sov 2.0, Titan DD nerf, nano nerf, ecm nerf, falcon nerf, need I go on. People hate CCP for nerfing things, people love it when CCP nerfs the things they complained about. People want CCP to not add too much new content and focus on fixing the bugs. People want more new content AND CCP to fix the bugs. People want bugs fixed and no new content. People want PI. People don't want PI. People want Incarna. People don't want Incarna. People want DUST. People don't want DUST. People think their set of values and concepts about EVE are dominant over others whose views do not coincide. So what if you pay a subscription? So do I! Most of the eve playerbase just enjoys whatever CCP implements and they don't *** on these forums. You know if I were the owner of CCP, i'd have said off a long time ago and taken the money and sold up to faceless corporation XYZ. Have they done this...no. You all sound like 4 yr olds demanding ice cream before dinner, but worse yet you are demanding no ice cream, ice cream after dinner and no dinner with just ice cream. What gives CCP consensus? CSM. You want this to be a democracy then go through CSM or run for it. Stop *ing about stuff that quite frankly most of you haven't even tried. Most comments on PI are from people who haven't even tested it. You know who CCP will listen to, people testing their ** for them. Good Day! You are really naive aren't you? And by that I mean you constant reference to your "dollar god". Get a grip.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.04.20 11:49:00 - [53] Kyra Felann said ôI think it's a silly English way of spelling spoiled. Or maybe it's a different tense that they use. I'm not really sure.ö That rich person is spoilt he never had to work a day in his life. That guy over there is spoilt; he doesnÆt know how good he has it. That girl is spoilt she has everything done for her just because she is pretty. I believe this is how the OP intended to use the word. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Johan Sabbat Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.04.20 12:00:00 - [54] Originally by: Pottsey Kyra Felann said ôI think it's a silly English way of spelling spoiled. Or maybe it's a different tense that they use. I'm not really sure.ö That rich person is spoilt he never had to work a day in his life. That guy over there is spoilt; he doesnÆt know how good he has it. That girl is spoilt she has everything done for her just because she is pretty. I believe this is how the OP intended to use the word. Damb those English and their silly language, next thing you know they'll be wanting all the z's replaced by s's and the u's put back where they belong.
Zofe Stormcaller Gallente Shadow Company Legiunea ROmana	Posted - 2010.04.20 13:00:00 - [55] Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Devan Reale tl; dr WTF is "spoilt"? Didn't read past first sentence because of spelling/grammar. I think it's a silly English way of spelling spoiled. Or maybe it's a different tense that they use. I'm not really sure. There are other words where they put a -t instead of a -ed, too. It looks weird to me too. Long story short: British English vs American English. Same as "Spelled" vs "Spelt" I for one hope CCP doesn't float: that way EA/Microsoft/Whoever can't buy it and wreck it like they did with C&C 4. I like CCPs products as they are and not retooled to appeal more to the target market colloquially known to the 'merkins as "jocks"
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.20 13:07:00 - [56] Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 20/04/2010 13:10:34 Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 20/04/2010 13:09:52 Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Devan Reale tl; dr WTF is "spoilt"? Didn't read past first sentence because of spelling/grammar. I think it's a silly English way of spelling spoiled. Or maybe it's a different tense that they use. I'm not really sure. There are other words where they put a -t instead of a -ed, too. It looks weird to me too. A past tense and a past participle of spoil. Originally by: Emperor Cheney To some people, Eve is a product that they pay for. When people are unhappy with a product they paid for, they often complain To other people, Eve is a way of life. When people complain about their way of life, they get personally offended. These people are known as fanbois, and kind of sad. The OP is of the latter group. The OP is mid way between both groups actually. Originally by: XenosisReaper No Superb Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.20 15:20:00 - [57] Originally by: Celeste Coeval A past tense and a past participle of spoil. Yeah, thought it was something like that, but it's not used in American English at all. We don't use the -t suffix, only -ed. Thus why it looks odd over here.
Empress Shai	Posted - 2010.04.20 16:14:00 - [58] Edited by: Empress Shai on 20/04/2010 16:16:09 So, in a nutshell.... Edited by: Empress Shai on 20/04/2010 16:15:21 Originally by: Celeste Coeval You are all spoilt....Good Day! I said, GOOD DAY! I miss Fez, best character EVER Spoiled troll is spoiled? Or is it Spoilt.... hum
N Ano Caldari Onyx Heavy Industries	Posted - 2010.04.20 16:37:00 - [59] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails I think you would do well to realise that a business is nothing without its customers. You could apply your remarks to almost any business - there are people that complain about nearly everything. They're called "critics" or "reviewers". It just happens that Eve players tend to be a lot more vocal than most, but we should consider something else... CCP suggests they have ~300k subscribers, and even taking into consideration the number of alt accounts etc, there are not anywhere near that many people on these forums, or any other, complaining about the state of the game. It's a fact that people are less likely to notice and/or comment on positive changes. I imagine that your boss is more likely to notice a mistake and comment on it, than if you just did your job with nothing going wrong. People like complaining. CCP seems to be learning to admit when they are wrong, as is the case with a recent dev blog. I'm sure this is greatly appreciated by the community at large, but there is still some way to go. Sometimes it feels like they make arbitary and sweeping changes, and often all the players really want is a better explanation as to why. It's not all about "they don't listen" but more about "they don't tell us" in a lot of cases. YMMV. I'm glad you're not in charge of CCP. Maybe this is Hilmar and co's baby, and they want to see it through. Some people raise a business purely to sell it on later, others will raise their business and go down with it at the end. I hope in their case, it is the latter. Regards, C. o'Ninetails x I guess I have a mission for next fanfest Damn I wish I had me a Chimera
Omenis Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.20 16:44:00 - [60] Originally by: Celeste Coeval You are all spoilt. If I were the type to generalize and set up straw men for public abuse in lieu of offering an informed opinion about EVE, I might agree with you. But I'm not, so I don't. Or, if you prefer... i c wut u did their IBL --- THIS IS MEME.
Taedrin Gallente Xovoni Directorate	Posted - 2010.04.20 17:38:00 - [61] Edited by: Taedrin on 20/04/2010 17:39:00 Originally by: N Ano Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails I think you would do well to realise that a business is nothing without its customers. You could apply your remarks to almost any business - there are people that complain about nearly everything. They're called "critics" or "reviewers". It just happens that Eve players tend to be a lot more vocal than most, but we should consider something else... CCP suggests they have ~300k subscribers, and even taking into consideration the number of alt accounts etc, there are not anywhere near that many people on these forums, or any other, complaining about the state of the game. It's a fact that people are less likely to notice and/or comment on positive changes. I imagine that your boss is more likely to notice a mistake and comment on it, than if you just did your job with nothing going wrong. People like complaining. CCP seems to be learning to admit when they are wrong, as is the case with a recent dev blog. I'm sure this is greatly appreciated by the community at large, but there is still some way to go. Sometimes it feels like they make arbitary and sweeping changes, and often all the players really want is a better explanation as to why. It's not all about "they don't listen" but more about "they don't tell us" in a lot of cases. YMMV. I'm glad you're not in charge of CCP. Maybe this is Hilmar and co's baby, and they want to see it through. Some people raise a business purely to sell it on later, others will raise their business and go down with it at the end. I hope in their case, it is the latter. Regards, C. o'Ninetails x I guess I have a mission for next fanfest Cat still used an x, so you should be off the hook. Plus technically you said: Quote: Like said before I will dye my hair blue for fanfest if you post in this thread without saying "lol" or "x" and actually being normal. Since this is not that thread, you are doubly off the hook. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Kytanos Termek Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.04.20 19:20:00 - [62] You tell um. While I think feedback is important. Their is a large difference between expressing your opinion, and abject whining. we need more of the former and far less of the latter.
MrBinary Minmatar Binary Systems	Posted - 2010.04.20 23:03:00 - [63] Celeste, Great post, sums up things quite soundly. You will find many though, that are just so enraptured within their own stunning greatness, they will never be able to comprehend the point you are making. The bleeting goes on and on. In this game forum, as in every other one on the market. The Forum Warriors who always know more than the devs, in one way or another. Makes for good reading on lunch breaks. Embrace the lunacy! "[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary"
fweepa Gallente F and A Supply	Posted - 2010.04.20 23:08:00 - [64] By taking opinions/ideas from actual PLAYERS and then implementing them CCP creates a game people want to play..... right? Of course they don't add any said gadget that some faceless nooblet brings to the table. features brought by expansions are well thought out and tested to bring the best, balanced playing field to EVE. Its a sandbox, catered to every possible style of gaming imaginable. Sorry if i've repeated anyone, was too lazy to read through posts.
MrBinary Minmatar Binary Systems	Posted - 2010.04.20 23:09:00 - [65] Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217 give dramiel speed boost .... waits too funny I'll vote for that...and way more cap...fat drone space and 8 more high slots would be way cool ccp! A "[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary"
N Ano Caldari Onyx Heavy Industries	Posted - 2010.04.20 23:12:00 - [66] Originally by: Taedrin Logical explanations My hat goes off to you, sir. Damn I wish I had me a Chimera
elnukeo Minmatar The Blue Suns	Posted - 2010.04.20 23:19:00 - [67] Originally by: Celeste Coeval You are all spoilt. CCP has spoilt you with expansions. It is CCP's game, not yours, don't forget that. You are not shareholders, you shouldn't really get any say at all. You say CCP doesn't listen? Skill queue, wormholes, T2 BS, Invention, Sov 2.0, Titan DD nerf, nano nerf, ecm nerf, falcon nerf, need I go on. People hate CCP for nerfing things, people love it when CCP nerfs the things they complained about. People want CCP to not add too much new content and focus on fixing the bugs. People want more new content AND CCP to fix the bugs. People want bugs fixed and no new content. People want PI. People don't want PI. People want Incarna. People don't want Incarna. People want DUST. People don't want DUST. People think their set of values and concepts about EVE are dominant over others whose views do not coincide. So what if you pay a subscription? So do I! Most of the eve playerbase just enjoys whatever CCP implements and they don't *** on these forums. You know if I were the owner of CCP, i'd have said off a long time ago and taken the money and sold up to faceless corporation XYZ. Have they done this...no. You all sound like 4 yr olds demanding ice cream before dinner, but worse yet you are demanding no ice cream, ice cream after dinner and no dinner with just ice cream. What gives CCP consensus? CSM. You want this to be a democracy then go through CSM or run for it. Stop *ing about stuff that quite frankly most of you haven't even tried. Most comments on PI are from people who haven't even tested it. You know who CCP will listen to, people testing their ** for them. Good Day! U mad? ---------------------------------------
chrisss0r	Posted - 2010.04.20 23:58:00 - [68] Originally by: Pottsey Celeste Coeval said ôYou are all spoilt. CCP has spoilt you with expansions. It is CCP's game, not yours, don't forget that. You are not shareholders, you shouldn't really get any say at all.ö Your having a laugh right? We are anything but spoilt. We get a higher then average price to pay and lower then average new content. We do get a say. If they ignore us and keep doing what we all hate we all leave and they go bankrupt. There business is to make products we all like and to keep us customers happy. That means listening to us at least part listening to us. Eve is an MMO with a monthly subscription. You expect a certain amount of standards from an MMO with a subscription. If CCP keep droped all new content people would quit and they would go bankrupt. eve price is industry standard, not above it. and claiming that they have to listen to us and otherwise go bankrupt is stupid because what counts is not people saying that eve will die or how they gonna stop playing but the number of the active subscriptions. As long as thos rise they are doing their stuff right. Eve forum is like small activist group who claim to have the majority behind them despite the general election smashing their faces in every time.
Musical Fist Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.04.21 01:58:00 - [69] Who is this CCP and is he single? This is so not my main
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.04.21 05:59:00 - [70] chrisss0r said "eve price is industry standard, not above it." The standard subscription for MMO's seems to be around about ú8.99 Eve is above that. Its well known that in a large amount for the world Eve is well above the standard subscription which if you covert to dollars is over $20 per month. chrisss0r said "and claiming that they have to listen to us and otherwise go bankrupt is stupid because what counts is not people saying that eve will die or how they gonna stop playing but the number of the active subscriptions. As long as thos rise they are doing their stuff right." Its not stupid. They shouldn't blindly follow what we say but if they ignore the player base and ignore what is making the player base unhappy and start doing things the player base don't like they will lose subscribers. Yes active subscriptions is what matters but that will drop if the player base are unhappy and the devs ignore the player base completely. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Denalak Gallente Maelstrom Crew Paradigm Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.21 06:11:00 - [71] OP is a genius. bows down
chrisss0r	Posted - 2010.04.21 07:38:00 - [72] Originally by: Pottsey chrisss0r said "eve price is industry standard, not above it." The standard subscription for MMO's seems to be around about ú8.99 Eve is above that. Its well known that in a large amount for the world Eve is well above the standard subscription which if you covert to dollars is over $20 per month. chrisss0r said "and claiming that they have to listen to us and otherwise go bankrupt is stupid because what counts is not people saying that eve will die or how they gonna stop playing but the number of the active subscriptions. As long as thos rise they are doing their stuff right." Its not stupid. They shouldn't blindly follow what we say but if they ignore the player base and ignore what is making the player base unhappy and start doing things the player base don't like they will lose subscribers. Yes active subscriptions is what matters but that will drop if the player base are unhappy and the devs ignore the player base completely. yeah maybe if you add the free mmorpgs to the average.... so far subscriptions have been increasing steadily and therefore ccp is doing the right thing. What is the point of whining about hownthey MIGHT stop listening to the playerbase and lose alot of subscriptions if that is not the case at all so far?
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.04.21 10:47:00 - [73] How dare all these knuckleheads discuss their opinions on things game related in a forum designed to facilitate just that. The fact that CCP won't listen to these people anyway makes it all the worse! "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.04.21 11:44:00 - [74] Edited by: Pottsey on 21/04/2010 11:44:12 chrisss0r said ôyeah maybe if you add the free mmorpgs to the average....ö What? I said the standard price is ú8.99 not the average price. Adding in Free MMOÆs doesnÆt change anything. Eve is well above the standard MMO price in the EU. chrisss0r said ôWhat is the point of whining about hownthey MIGHT stop listening to the playerbase and lose alot of subscriptions if that is not the case at all so far?ö They are losing a lot of subscriptions. Lots of people are quitting due to lack of content or other reasons. The average person only lasts 7months if I recall CCP's data correctly. The subscriptions numbers are going up due to new players but those new players are not staying that long. I am not whining about how they might stop listing to the player base. I am complaining at the higher then average price and worse then average amounts of new content and how there isnÆt enough content or things to do for older players. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Pesadel0 Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.21 11:53:00 - [75] We ***** because we care.

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