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Scoos Mei
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Posted - 2010.04.23 11:17:00 -
[1]
When Tyrannis hits how exactly will players divvy up the planets?
Is it a matter of getting online as soon as possible after the patch and grabbing every planet you can?
Is there a limit, eg one planet per person? If so, is there anything stopping people grabbing planets with alts on the same account?
Can more than one player co-exist on a planet? What's to stop everyone simply farming Jita 4,4 planet?
Do low sec and null sec planets have more value?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.04.23 11:29:00 -
[2]
All players in the game could, if they wanted, put down a base on the very same planet.
Of course, they would quite soon extract basically next to no resources as they manage to constantly dry the planet up as soon as the resource respawns hit. The more people are there longer, the less resources you get.
So that means you DO NOT want to occupy the same planet too many others already occupy, since it won't be very profitable to do so. But even the first arrival would be equally negatively affected by this, not just the latest arrival.
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Gieron
Middleton and Mercer LLP Consortium.
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Posted - 2010.04.23 11:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Scoos Mei What's to stop everyone simply farming Jita 4,4 planet?
Among other things the fact that Jita IV-4 is a moon.
Originally by: Scoos Mei Do low sec and null sec planets have more value?
That will probably be the case.
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TheBlueMonkey
Gallente Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.23 14:35:00 -
[4]
Edited by: TheBlueMonkey on 23/04/2010 14:38:37 I don't think it's fair that older players will have a better understanding of the skills required, desireably planets to take and other knowledge that comes from playing a game longer than a new player.
How does CCP intend on combatting this?
/monkies general grumble about "new player experience"
Edit: Making this into slightless of a troll post,
I heard mention that there may be a skill involved in the number of command center thingy's you can drop.
That along with specific types of planets being better than others (something about plasma giants) makes me think that jita may end up with just trash that no one wants.
At least that's how I'd of done it, put the desired planets in the least used systems in an effort to spread load across the cluster.
Also you'll be limited to how much time you actually want to invest into pi as I'm not sure how "afk" it'll be yet.
It would be good to be able to get systems being self sufficient though, rather than having to trek across 00 to pick up npc fules --
Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.04.23 14:56:00 -
[5]
Originally by: TheBlueMonkey Edited by: TheBlueMonkey on 23/04/2010 14:38:37 I don't think it's fair....
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Arous Drephius
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Posted - 2010.04.23 15:27:00 -
[6]
Originally by: TheBlueMonkey I don't think it's fair that older players will have a better understanding of the skills required, desireably planets to take and other knowledge that comes from playing a game longer than a new player.
That along with specific types of planets being better than others (something about plasma giants) makes me think that jita may end up with just trash that no one wants.
First, there's no 'better understanding' of skills needed. You learn how PI works and that's it. The desirable planets are the ones that produce the highest value materials that anyone can look up on the market.
I suggest you look through some threads in the Test Server forum because plasma planets are NOT better than others - all the materials present on plasma planets also exist on the others.
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TheBlueMonkey
Gallente Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.23 15:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Arous Drephius
Originally by: TheBlueMonkey I don't think it's fair that older players will have a better understanding of the skills required, desireably planets to take and other knowledge that comes from playing a game longer than a new player.
That along with specific types of planets being better than others (something about plasma giants) makes me think that jita may end up with just trash that no one wants.
First, there's no 'better understanding' of skills needed. You learn how PI works and that's it. The desirable planets are the ones that produce the highest value materials that anyone can look up on the market.
I suggest you look through some threads in the Test Server forum because plasma planets are NOT better than others - all the materials present on plasma planets also exist on the others.
I fear you missed the sarcasm. but the serious side of things is that older players "get" what all the involved skills do to some extent in all areas that the dabble in eve. From people I know who have started playing eve, the massive amount of skills involved in the game can be daunting
Also... That ****ing blows that all resources are on all planets. What's the point in that besides making it easy mode for people? Making it so that some planets have an abundace of one thing but none of another or are well rounded would make them worth fighting over. Otherwise it'll just be down to proximity to market that you want to sell on. --
Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
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Driven Marcelli
Minmatar Evil Overhead
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Posted - 2010.04.23 16:23:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Akita T All players in the game could, if they wanted, put down a base on the very same planet.
Of course, they would quite soon extract basically next to no resources as they manage to constantly dry the planet up as soon as the resource respawns hit. The more people are there longer, the less resources you get.
So that means you DO NOT want to occupy the same planet too many others already occupy, since it won't be very profitable to do so. But even the first arrival would be equally negatively affected by this, not just the latest arrival.
Currently that is not on Sisi. I think they rely on the planet remaping resorces to force distribution
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Durnin Stormbrow
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Posted - 2010.04.23 16:31:00 -
[9]
CCP hasn't released information on what we'll able to build other than to say it'll be things NPCs currently produce ie. POS fuel, POS structures, construction blocks, nanite paste etc.
CCP hasn't released information on production chains other than to say that the most complex items may be up to 6 processes deep.
CCP hasn't released information on what resources will be found where or in what quantities, other than to say Sisi isn't what will go live, and 0,0 will be better than hi-sec, and you can use planets in WH space.
CCP hasn't released information on how they will transition from an NPC market to a player market other than to say that they have a plan.
CCP hasn't released information on costs for structures, infrastructure or maintenance of facilities.
CCP hasn't released information on what skills will be required or their prerequisites, other than to say that skills will be required, but the barriers to entry should be low.
The only advantages veterans have over new players is that we already have a load of skills that may or may not help with PI, hopefully some seed money, and possibly some understanding of what products have use in the broad market. We can't pre-survey planets, we can't prepare a business plan, and we can't prevent you from doing the only things we can do to prepare for PI; reading CCP posts in the forums & logging onto Sisi to try it for yourself.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.04.23 17:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Driven Marcelli Currently that is not on Sisi. I think they rely on the planet remaping resorces to force distribution
Isn't that pretty much the same of what I just said ? The more you extract, the less resources there will be overall on the planet, the less you can extract per cycle, the less profitable it gets to be there. The precise mechanism of how they do that is of a distant secondary importance.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.04.23 17:56:00 -
[11]
Quote:
The only advantages veterans have over new players is that we already have a load of skills that may or may not help with PI, hopefully some seed money,...
The real advantage veterans will have is that they'll take the challenge and win it.
A bigger part of the non veterans will sob and cry in a corner because there's no fully guided tour of PI and will ultimately quit.
A smaller part of the non veterans will take the challenge, fight with their hands and finally win and slowly become tomorrow's veterans. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.23 19:12:00 -
[12]
If you have Science 3, you can start on day one playing with PI... and every character starts with this.
CCP have stated they want PI to be easily accessible.
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Driven Marcelli
Minmatar Evil Overhead
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Posted - 2010.04.24 00:42:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Driven Marcelli Currently that is not on Sisi. I think they rely on the planet remaping resorces to force distribution
Isn't that pretty much the same of what I just said ? The more you extract, the less resources there will be overall on the planet, the less you can extract per cycle, the less profitable it gets to be there. The precise mechanism of how they do that is of a distant secondary importance.
um no currently the remaping uses the same base resource seed reguardless of planet population, they cannot currently modify it without breaking things, and planets are breaking for all kinds of reasons now as it is. In part because theres a diference between someone spliting extraction between all 5 with diferent extration rates, and someone doing a maximised draw on one poopile with extractors.
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dischordia
Gallente wiggle Tech.
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Posted - 2010.04.24 13:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 23/04/2010 16:43:08
CCP hasn't released information on what skills will be required or their prerequisites, other than to say that skills will be required, but the barriers to entry should be low.
the skills are on sisi atm
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Rico Lobo
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Posted - 2010.04.24 14:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: dischordia
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 23/04/2010 16:43:08
CCP hasn't released information on what skills will be required or their prerequisites, other than to say that skills will be required, but the barriers to entry should be low.
actualy only three of the skills they have refered to for PI are seeded. theres no skill to "limit" the number of worlds you can run
the skills are on sisi atm
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Maria Yumeno
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Posted - 2010.04.28 10:10:00 -
[16]
So has anyone been trying this on Sisi yet? how profitable does it all seem atm? i heard it was pretty tedious and a lot of ATK time was required to get a pittance worth of materials. It seems that not many players will get into it unless the price of NPC goods is raised or taken completely off the market. In that case PI peeps will be able to set their own price and NPC goods will go up? especially if it is a lot of effort to get a small amount of NPC goods out at the end.
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Sicardae Bad'ia
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Posted - 2010.04.28 10:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Maria Yumeno So has anyone been trying this on Sisi yet? how profitable does it all seem atm? i heard it was pretty tedious and a lot of ATK time was required to get a pittance worth of materials. It seems that not many players will get into it unless the price of NPC goods is raised or taken completely off the market. In that case PI peeps will be able to set their own price and NPC goods will go up? especially if it is a lot of effort to get a small amount of NPC goods out at the end.
Without player based pricing on the market we really have no idea what any of this stuff is worth. though all the schematics are up, and when you get into the high tech stuff, theres a lot of items that a. are not in game now. b. look like station parts
It might be a good form of semi-passive income, it might just be a huge time sink, prbly gonna depend on how much research you put into what you can build, and how many alts you throw at it. just like every other indy feature in game.
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Frobert
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Posted - 2010.04.28 18:42:00 -
[18]
Will it be possible to attack structures on a planet?
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.28 18:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Frobert Will it be possible to attack structures on a planet?
nope not at all
Currently you can stack your structurs on top of other peoples extractors but given how resource seeding works currently its kind of pointless to keep doing that at a loss to you for too long
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.04.28 21:19:00 -
[20]
Is there a recurring maintenance cost for PI? If so, then that would help to limit the number of players on a planet. (No point in staying on a crowded planet if the maintenance costs exceed the profit.)
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.04.28 22:13:00 -
[21]
Edited by: De''Veldrin on 28/04/2010 22:13:21
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
The only advantages veterans have over new players is that we already have a load of skills that may or may not help with PI, hopefully some seed money,...
The real advantage veterans will have is that they'll take the challenge and win it.
A bigger part of the non veterans will sob and cry in a corner because there's no fully guided tour of PI and will ultimately quit.
A smaller part of the non veterans will take the challenge, fight with their hands and finally win and slowly become tomorrow's veterans.
This.
And some of us non-veterans marched our happy butts over to Sisi to at least get an idea of how it worked, so we could meet the challenge successfully.
It's not like Sisi is only available to veteran players. it's open to anyone with an active account. If you want to know how stuff works, go over there and try it out. It's no more mystical than nullsec. --Vel
Originally by: Jiseinoku
Mining is the path to enlightement.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.28 23:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: De'Veldrin And some of us non-veterans marched our happy butts over to Sisi to at least get an idea of how it worked, so we could meet the challenge successfully. .
yep
nothing quite like being able to hop onto sisi to measure out every other players coffins for them.
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
ScottyDosn'tKnow
Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.29 07:22:00 -
[23]
What I am hoping is that I will be able to get all my NPC goods from PI harvesting and all my ice materials from mining or buying of corp members that mine. This will make getting a POS and running it much easier than having loads of stuff shipped in from empire.
As for it being harder for newer players...it is the same for everything in this game. Pvp, ratting, industry. that's the way the game is built. PI might actually be more level a playing field than any other aspect of the game as CCP has stated you will be able to start playing with PI from day 1.
I assume PI will be the same as ratting/mining/mission where 0.0>low sec>empire. How they manage that we will have to wait and see.
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Simmonite
Caldari Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.29 09:42:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Simmonite on 29/04/2010 09:43:33
Originally by: stoicfaux Is there a recurring maintenance cost for PI? If so, then that would help to limit the number of players on a planet. (No point in staying on a crowded planet if the maintenance costs exceed the profit.)
There is no actual maintenace cost, the only cost come from the following: the command center which you provide, each building you create is 150,000 isk if I remember correctly, and then there is a small cost for launching rockets, and shipping stuff down to the planet from the customs office in orbit of each planet.
You can I guess concider the extractors to have a maintence cost, once the spot where you built them runs dry and you need to relocate them.
Edit: Spelling.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.29 15:21:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 29/04/2010 15:22:18
Originally by: TheBlueMonkey
Also... That ****ing blows that all resources are on all planets. What's the point in that besides making it easy mode for people?
I sincerely hope CCP reconsiders the current idea. What this will do is simply render *every* PI utterly useless. It's like blobbing: everyone will want to put a structure on the planet you're at too. And within hours of the introducing to the game, I predict that (certainly all highsec) planets will be rendered utterly ineffective. With several hundred thousand other peeops on 'my' planet, nobody gets anything; and nobody will voluntarily remove their structure, either.
Result? Total grid-lock and huge, huge database overhead for CCP. And they were just on about the great upcoming safespot nerf, to remove loose items in space that cause a drag on the database. Yeah, I'm sure managing a million indestructible harvesters on each planet will help. -- Gorgeous, delicious, deculture! |
Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.29 16:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ranka Mei And within hours of the introducing to the game, I predict that (certainly all highsec) planets will be rendered utterly ineffective. With several hundred thousand other peeops on 'my' planet, nobody gets anything; and nobody will voluntarily remove their structure, either.
Several hundred thousand is a rather high estimate, even for Jita IV. As with everything else industrial, everybody and his brother will be clustering up in Caldari and Gallente space, while entire constellations in Khanid and Derelik and some other backwater highsec will be completely un-tapped.
...
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AvatarADV
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Posted - 2010.04.29 17:17:00 -
[27]
The question is more like, just how complicated is the path from "basic planetgoo" to "mobile lab" or "x-large rail battery" or whatever?
There will doubtless be a lot of competition for the "good" planets in empire, though again, you'd expect stuff in the less-populated regions to have less crowding than Jita IV. But think of it like moon mining... there are moons that are perfectly functional to mine at, but the supply of the product that can be mined from that moon is in sufficient supply that it's not worth dropping a mining POS and keeping it fueled.
Planet goo may have the same situation, where some of it will be valuable and some of it is just -everywhere-.
On the other hand, if the reaction chain is that complicated, then people may not be able to do all their needed reactions themselves. And unlike the mining section, I haven't seen anything to indicate that reacting suffers from overcrowding on the planet at all. (Probably there will be something added that causes it, lest every player in the game turn Jita IV into a smoking ball...)
What I'm saying is, you may be able to make a good profit on PI even if you can't mine ANYTHING. Buy someone else's planet-goo, at price of production, run it through your planetary reactors, get end-stage or near-end-stage products, sell for fat ISK.
It'll take time to figure out what planet-goo is the equivalent of technetium and what is the equivalent of atmospheric gases. And everything can change if they add significant other dimensions (the whole population thing, pollution, etc.) On the other hand, it's relatively cheap to dip your toe in...
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Xearal
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Posted - 2010.04.30 11:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: De'Veldrin Edited by: De''Veldrin on 28/04/2010 22:13:21
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
The only advantages veterans have over new players is that we already have a load of skills that may or may not help with PI, hopefully some seed money,...
The real advantage veterans will have is that they'll take the challenge and win it. A bigger part of the non veterans will sob and cry in a corner because there's no fully guided tour of PI and will ultimately quit. A smaller part of the non veterans will take the challenge, fight with their hands and finally win and slowly become tomorrow's veterans.
This. And some of us non-veterans marched our happy butts over to Sisi to at least get an idea of how it worked, so we could meet the challenge successfully. It's not like Sisi is only available to veteran players. it's open to anyone with an active account. If you want to know how stuff works, go over there and try it out. It's no more mystical than nullsec.
/Signed
I'm not a veteran, I'm a newbie, but I'm not going to be figting with my hands, I'm going to be holding a shovel, and call in some bulldozers.
I'm currently heavily saving up the little money I have so I have investment money to begin setting up my PCCs, going to SiSi to see what's new and how things work, work out business plans and worksheets to see what I need, and how I can tackle the supply and demand for planetary goods.
The only advantages they have are: - Better learning skills and better implants, so they will be able to advance more quickly into the higher skill levels for PI, allowing them to get to the higher tiers of production and harvesting more quickly. - More investment money to build a colony, however, with the prices that a planetary base have at the moment ( excluding the PCC, but the basic ones will be cheap, even for a newbie, since this is supposed to be low entry ), a newbie can set up shop on a planet just fine. - Better knowledge of systems and where bottlenecks, gatecamps and dangerous areas of space are. - Skills for moving things between planets properly. - Friends for helping them protect their valuable cargo when moving things off planet.
Most of these can be compensated for by a newbie: - Money can be saved up, you still have several weeks before tyrannis hits, if you start saving up now, I'm sure you'll have more than enough for an initial colony. - Join a corporation, it will give you access to more experienced players, who have been on trips to the seedy sides of New Eden, so know how to avoid gatecamps etc. and can help you protect your cargo.
And don't forget your 6 Ps: Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
Take a look at PI on SiSi, learn the basic ropes of it, read stuff on the test forums, work out how to actually produce stuff, and take a look at the commodities markets, see what can be profitable. POS fuels for instance will always be in demand, so they can make you money at the start of it.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.30 15:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Ranka Mei And within hours of the introducing to the game, I predict that (certainly all highsec) planets will be rendered utterly ineffective. With several hundred thousand other peeops on 'my' planet, nobody gets anything; and nobody will voluntarily remove their structure, either.
Several hundred thousand is a rather high estimate, even for Jita IV. As with everything else industrial, everybody and his brother will be clustering up in Caldari and Gallente space, while entire constellations in Khanid and Derelik and some other backwater highsec will be completely un-tapped.
at 33% max yeild on thoes worlds (meaning that the range on them is 0-33% of the max possible given the current seeding Vs 30-100% of max yeild in 0-0) your still looking at craptastic output
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
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