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Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
507
   |
Posted - 2012.07.09 15:06:00 -
[61] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Lord Zim wrote:dexington wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Oh please, everyone and their dog can see the balance/bottleneck issues with tech/moons in general. It's an area CCP are extremely slow to move on. I recently watched last years alliance tournament, and one of the devs being interviewed talks about the technetium bottleneck problem, and how the design of reactions makes it hard to change. It sounded like they were looking at a change the involved changing the reaction tree, which sounds like one way to change the value of technetium while keeping the price on T2 items stable. There are essentially two things they can do to "quickly fix" the tech bottleneck. 1) Rebalance the moongoo consumption in T2 components 2) Add alchemy to every tier of moongoo. I think that if they'd redone the 1) option back to what it was before tech became the major bottleneck, it'd still be an improvement, because while the neo/dyspro moons were valuable, they weren't limited to the northern areas. And it's not like the south is fully worthless either, despite what they'll have you think. Sounds good. So what is CCPs deal??? Why years to make a much needed change?! (it has been like two or three right? I forget)
I imagine because they want to have something better than putting up a tower next to a moon and harvesting the goo from it. They've mentioned countless times that they want to put moon goo collection into the hands of the average player instead of at the alliance level. (Talking about ring mining here)
Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain!
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp
Legion of xXDEATHXx
35
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:27:00 -
[62] - Quote
I don't why people can't do their research. CCP Soundwave has stated that they are doing moon alchemy for ALL moon tiers (including R32). This should help with the bottleneck problem and allow the tech2 markets to become oversupplied. If not then others things will have to be done on top of that so it can become oversupplied. I'm not saying the tech2 market NEEDS to be oversupplied, just that the capability needs to be there as it currently isn't.
The quote I am referencing:
CCP Soundwave wrote:Ring mining might have to move back in favor or re-doing POSs.
In the meantime, I'd really just like to alchemy every single tier of moons (like it was done with 64s).
CCP Soundwave quote |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians
The Aurora Shadow
60
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:I don't why people can't do their research
You do realise you are posting in GD, right?
"The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers."
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
Isonda
suspended animations DOT
None Of The Above
3
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:37:00 -
[64] - Quote
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:Add a special probe that can reduce moon mining efficiency by, say, 50% for X period of time. This bomb could be fired by probe launchers and used to disrupt moon mining by making the moon's output lower.
First of all, this is breaking Tech even more.
Second: this is a buff to large alliances and the Meta Game. I have no doubt that a mechanic like this, making it possible to kill moon income on a roam, would be great.
Please, CCP, do this. It will be great and increase the price of Moon Goo. |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp
Legion of xXDEATHXx
35
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:40:00 -
[65] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:You do realise you are posting in GD, right?
You have a point there.  |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
172
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:I don't why people can't do their research. CCP Soundwave has stated that they are doing moon alchemy for ALL moon tiers (including R32). This should help with the bottleneck problem and allow the tech2 markets to become oversupplied. If not then others things will have to be done on top of that so it can become oversupplied. I'm not saying the tech2 market NEEDS to be oversupplied, just that the capability needs to be there as it currently isn't. The quote I am referencing: CCP Soundwave wrote:Ring mining might have to move back in favor or re-doing POSs.
In the meantime, I'd really just like to alchemy every single tier of moons (like it was done with 64s). CCP Soundwave quote
Nothing wrong with adding Alchemy in the meantime. Such a mechanic is also easy to do for all moon goo considering it is already written.
The burning question is: Why are they making the decision not to? As in years deciding not to. What is the motivation? |
Lord Zim
990
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Posted - 2012.07.09 16:19:00 -
[67] - Quote
Elzon1 wrote:I don't why people can't do their research. CCP Soundwave has stated that they are doing moon alchemy for ALL moon tiers (including R32). This should help with the bottleneck problem and allow the tech2 markets to become oversupplied. If not then others things will have to be done on top of that so it can become oversupplied. I'm not saying the tech2 market NEEDS to be oversupplied, just that the capability needs to be there as it currently isn't. The quote I am referencing: CCP Soundwave wrote:Ring mining might have to move back in favor or re-doing POSs.
In the meantime, I'd really just like to alchemy every single tier of moons (like it was done with 64s). CCP Soundwave quote
That's saying he'd like to do these things, not that they will be done.
Never, ever, assume CCP are going to do something until you see it on Sisi/TQ. |
Lord Zim
990
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 16:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Nothing wrong with adding Alchemy in the meantime. Such a mechanic is also easy to do for all moon goo considering it is already written.
The burning question is: Why are they making the decision not to? As in years deciding not to. What is the motivation?
God knows.
Another burning question is: Why did CCP make the changes when the entire MD forum told CCP what they were going to end up doing? Was it a buff to the NC? It certainly wasn't to help goons, in fact the change made our moons **** more or less overnight. |
SetrakDark
DarkCorp Capital Group
DarkCorp Imperium
115
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Posted - 2012.07.09 16:42:00 -
[69] - Quote
Nullsec players have shown that they'll generate content despite absolutely borked game mechanics, so CCP knows they can work on **** like tech and sov last, especially when they did an enormous nullsec focused expansion already (dominion).
Again, most of this is just hisec babbies crying over ship prices, which have more to do with the drone poo nerf than the tech bottleneck. Nullsec players have been asking for a tech fix for almost two years; we've trundled on anyway, and will continue to do so until CCP gets around to it.
I personally think the UI was a big waste of time, but spending the resources on hisec dec mechanics and lowsec FW was a much better choice than a t2 mat fix imo. |
Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp
Legion of xXDEATHXx
35
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Posted - 2012.07.09 17:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Nothing wrong with adding Alchemy in the meantime. Such a mechanic is also easy to do for all moon goo considering it is already written.
The burning question is: Why are they making the decision not to? As in years deciding not to. What is the motivation?
Indeed, it has been a problem for quite some time but there hasn't been enough "pressure" to cause enough concern to change things.
A few things have changed:
Most of the old stockpiles of technetium dried up a little while back. Therefore, the tech moons are the only supply currently which brings out the full effect of the bottleneck.
A coalition of alliances took the time to gobble up a large proportion of the tech moon supply. The income from which has caused the coagulation of nullsec into mostly OTEC vs almost everyone not in OTEC. Due to this coagulation of forces pvp has been refined down to mostly blobs and grinding both of which are dull and fairly boring in a strategic and variety sense.
The centralization of technetium supply has also taken a toll on highsec as well as all players who use tech2 ships or components.
There is also the additional pressure of the CSM whom have been pushing for a fix to the technetium bottleneck "ASAP".
It's not that the goons caused this situation really, it was inevitably going to occur one way or another. |
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Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp
Legion of xXDEATHXx
35
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:16:00 -
[71] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:That's saying he'd like to do these things, not that they will be done.
Never, ever, assume CCP are going to do something until you see it on Sisi/TQ.
You have to remember what was said in the past compared to what was recently said to get the true realization of what has occurred.
When the technetium bottleneck was about to occur it was pointed out by the player base (Akita T and others) what was going to inevitably occur.
After dominion a suggestion was made during fanfest that a new type of mining be added to the functionality of the I-HUB. This was the idea of comets and their "ejaculates". 
After the initial comet suggestion there came the idea of ring mining around planets for moon goo.
While these various ideas were being floated about in CCP various individuals in the playerbase continued to push the simpler solution of simply adding R32 alchemy. This suggestion was generally repeated again and again.
However, what was said to be inevitable way back before the technetium bottleneck finally occurred.
The old stockpiles ran dry. The tech moons were mostly snatched up by a large coalition. All of this resulted in the coagulation of nullsec (OTEC vs non-OTEC) and took away one of CCP's best selling points of the game, varied large scale pvp. With the coagulation of pvp methods (blobbing and grinding) nullsec becomes a dull and predictable/repetitive part of the game.
All of this combined with the pressure from the CSM to fix the tech bottleneck "ASAP" has caused the fundamental realization that the problem needs to be fixed quickly and simply. Of course, the quickest and easiest method of solving the problem was what the few people who saw the problem before it started have been suggesting... R32 alchemy.
However, CCP Soundwave (lead game designer) has said he intends to do alchemy for ALL the moon tiers, not just R32. There may also be the possibility that the he may suggest that all the tiers be connected through alchemy, but that would be putting words in his mouth. This change in mood from CCP Soundwave suggests that the problem is now in the process of being fixed and that he wants to make sure it is solved for now and for the foreseeable future seeing as he wants all the moon tiers using alchemy not just R64 and R32 (good thinking on the part of CCP Soundwave). |
Lord Zim
992
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
Again, he has said he'd like to do alchemy for all moon tiers, he hasn't said it will be done. There's a huge difference there.
Stop shooting the hen before it's laid its eggs, it doesn't work. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
199
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
It must have hurt when you were told that your alliance couldn't afford reimbursing your ship losses during the war, and that you're required to find ways to make money in order to fly those manditory ops.
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Elzon1
Shadow Boys Corp
Legion of xXDEATHXx
37
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:53:00 -
[74] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Again, he has said he'd like to do alchemy for all moon tiers, he hasn't said it will be done. There's a huge difference there.
Stop shooting the hen before it's laid its eggs, it doesn't work.
Indeed, and I'm basically pointing out that his tone has changed significantly.
He has gone from suggesting some feature for the distant future to suddenly settling for the quickest and easiest solution.
He even went further than that and extended the fix to all moon tiers allowing for EVE to be "future proofed", preventing this from being a problem again for quite some time.
It just seems apparent to me that things have finally gotten serious seeing CCP Soundwave switch like that. I'm pretty sure they have already begun going through the internal process of creating the solution to the problem at CCP.
Probably a month after the release of the CSM summit meeting minutes we will see a dev blog about the upcoming alchemy change to all the moon tiers. Well, at least I would hope it would happen that quickly.  |
Mallak Azaria
288
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Posted - 2012.07.09 20:27:00 -
[75] - Quote
adam smash wrote:CCP has been caught many times helping one alliance (t2 BPO's ftw).
Once. One time does not equal many times, unless you have some sort of proof. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
328
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Posted - 2012.07.09 20:30:00 -
[76] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:adam smash wrote:CCP has been caught many times helping one alliance (t2 BPO's ftw). Once. One time does not equal many times, unless you have some sort of proof.
Also, unless there's some evidence otherwise, they fixed that by banning some people and deleting the BPOs.
-RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Mallak Azaria
288
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Posted - 2012.07.09 20:43:00 -
[77] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:adam smash wrote:CCP has been caught many times helping one alliance (t2 BPO's ftw). Once. One time does not equal many times, unless you have some sort of proof. Also, unless there's some evidence otherwise, they fixed that by banning some people and deleting the BPOs.
All it takes is a 3-digit search in Google to find the information on it. It's actually quite a good read & very informative. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
331
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 21:18:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:adam smash wrote:CCP has been caught many times helping one alliance (t2 BPO's ftw). Once. One time does not equal many times, unless you have some sort of proof. Also, unless there's some evidence otherwise, they fixed that by banning some people and deleting the BPOs. All it takes is a 3-digit search in Google to find the information on it. It's actually quite a good read & very informative.
Another good one to read is the details of the old Moon Goo duping exploit that ran for what, 3 years?
-RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Mallak Azaria
290
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Posted - 2012.07.09 21:49:00 -
[79] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Never, ever, assume CCP are going to do something until you see it on Sisi/TQ.
And even if you see it on Sisi, don't assume that it will make it to TQ. |
Cass Lie
State War Academy
Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2012.07.09 22:24:00 -
[80] - Quote
So, the proposed fix to technetium bottleneck is making moon mining yield lower, thus... making it an even bigger bottleneck. I don't even... (Hint: If you cut supply by half and demand stays the same, you will not cut profits by half.)
(And yes, quick alchemy fix is needed. Badly. Fix it now, implement the proper advanced mechanics later.) |
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Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp
120
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Posted - 2012.07.10 00:15:00 -
[81] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:u mad?
You know what will slow down moon mining? Blow up the pos
Hot drop O'clock!!!
its POS bashing time!!!!! |
Apostate Lucius
The Plebian Republic
12
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Posted - 2012.07.10 00:49:00 -
[82] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:u mad?
You know what will slow down moon mining? Blow up the pos Hot drop O'clock!!! its POS bashing time!!!!!
I had the sudden mental image of the Thing punching a POS repeatedly. Thanks for the chuckle.
Let Caesar never forget, though he may rule with the authority of the gods, he is allowed to rule by the whim of the people. |
Garreth Vlox
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2012.07.10 01:15:00 -
[83] - Quote
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:Add a special probe that can reduce moon mining efficiency by, say, 50% for X period of time. This bomb could be fired by probe launchers and used to disrupt moon mining by making the moon's output lower. RFed moons produce no Tech for the duration of their RF timer. Which requires RFing the tower. This is ninja stuff.
You're missing the point, he wants a no risk, "easy" way to make it so the people who captured the and setup the POS and defended it several times can be screwed over with little or no effort. |
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
137
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Posted - 2012.07.10 01:22:00 -
[84] - Quote
OP, "He he, I'm going to screw up their moongoo income." launches moongoo bomb.
When he gets back to his station, "WTF! Covops hulls just doubled in price? CCP fix naow!!"
"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1163
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Posted - 2012.07.10 03:45:00 -
[85] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:OP, "He he, I'm going to screw up their moongoo income." launches moongoo bomb.
When he gets back to his station, "WTF! Covops hulls just doubled in price? CCP fix naow!!"
Hulk price manipulation?
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
The Slayer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
20
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Posted - 2012.07.10 06:50:00 -
[86] - Quote
Lucy Ferrr wrote:adam smash wrote:
The goons come here to cry knowing that tech is what helps keep their CFC togeather, and with out it... TBH what would hold it all togeather?
Now I am no fan of the Goons, but in their defense their brains and leadership do call for a tech nerf. It's just the faceless, nameless, and brainless Goon grunts that don't matter that are saying tech is fine.
Nobody thinks Tech is fine, and I would challenge you to find a single non troll post of anyone saying they believe it is. We all know its broken, and would all like to see a change so that there is a reason to fight for null sec space again.
People came here to say the ops idea was a dumb one, which it is. There are current ways in the game to disrupt an alliances moon mining, however allowing a single player the ability to AFK disrupt alliance level income is stupid. |
Lord Zim
1004
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Posted - 2012.07.10 07:26:00 -
[87] - Quote
That's not to say it wouldn't be hilarious to implement it, because it would make them cry even more when tech went past, not 170k/unit, but 250k/unit, because nothing was being mined.
And then we could sit back and taunt them with "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it". |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
948
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Posted - 2012.07.10 09:23:00 -
[88] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:u mad?
You know what will slow down moon mining? Blow up the pos Hot drop O'clock!!! its POS bashing time!!!!!
Why promote blobing?
You could just let small gangs intercept the moon Goo on its way up from the moon to the pos. Problem sloved, your welcome.
Why is the counter in eve always blobing. If the removed local, or at least made it so black ops cynos saved you from poping onto local chat, as you bypassed the gate. Then 1000 s of moons would get raided, and allainces would finally have a real reason not to expand into countless areas just to leave most of thier space empty all the time.
It's so simple, it would make eve fun
Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 sales Xbox 360: 2.2 million PlayStation 3: 1.5 million PC: 500,000http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
352
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Posted - 2012.07.10 17:01:00 -
[89] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:
Why is the counter in eve always blobing. If the removed local, or at least made it so black ops cynos saved you from poping onto local chat, as you bypassed the gate. Then 1000 s of moons would get raided, and allainces would finally have a real reason not to expand into countless areas just to leave most of thier space empty all the time.
Because 2 > 1, and EvE doesn't have fixed team-size battlefields ('cept the AT, ofc).
-RubyPorto
IB4TS |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
950
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Posted - 2012.07.10 17:43:00 -
[90] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:MotherMoon wrote:
Why is the counter in eve always blobing. If the removed local, or at least made it so black ops cynos saved you from poping onto local chat, as you bypassed the gate. Then 1000 s of moons would get raided, and allainces would finally have a real reason not to expand into countless areas just to leave most of thier space empty all the time.
Because 2 > 1, and EvE doesn't have fixed team-size battlefields ('cept the AT, ofc).
Ok answer honestly.
If you could take 5 guys and break the tank of the npc run mining drill that mines moon Goo. Maybe every 2 hours there is a 10 minute window in which you can catch it on its way up *to steal* or on its way down *to kill*.
What would be more effective?
5 ships, or 10?
With 10 ships you don't deal anymore damage than 5 as that single mining cycle has been interupted. you could of hit two sites instead.
Or what's better 10 ships or 400. When the 400 man fleet can't stop the 40 tiny fleets bringing an overexpanded allaince to its knees without having to kill the pos.
Blobing is big on eve Becuase everything in eve is based on blowing up stuff as fast as possible. Meaning 2 is better than 1. Like yousaid.
So that question I wanted to ask you , is 2 always better than 1. Or is it just designed that way.
Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 sales Xbox 360: 2.2 million PlayStation 3: 1.5 million PC: 500,000http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
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