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| Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
 Ywev    |
Posted - 2003.06.26 18:35:00 -
[1] I have looked in dozens of regions, planets, moons, asteroid belts, I have yet to find something that even remotley challenges my battleships. Yes, 4 cruisers are fun, but its so rare other ships come to fight against you. I would like some tougher bship classed pirates out in the non empire space were they should be. Pod ya later.. Ywev |
 Tri H'Dee |
Posted - 2003.06.26 18:38:00 -
[2] Why? Isn't the PvP challenging enough ;) - afk |
 Lallante |
Posted - 2003.06.26 18:45:00 -
[3] Um...No, not in a battleship clearly Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa |
 Linak'h |
Posted - 2003.06.26 18:46:00 -
[4] You want a challenge Ywev? Here is one for you if you have the balls for it: Backstab your buddies in m0o. That shouldn't be hard for a seasoned pirate such as yourself. That way EVERYBODY hates you and will go gunning for you. Seriously, if this is how you feel after only a month and a half of the game maybe you should try something more challenging? Rock climbing without a safty rope? Bye bye. Hugs and kisses. See you on the flip side. |
Discorporation |
Posted - 2003.06.26 18:47:00 -
[5] Hehe I should hope not :) [Heterocephalus glaber] |
Tri H'Dee |
Posted - 2003.06.26 18:49:00 -
[6] How 'bout this for a challenge: Loose the BS and go back to podding ppl while in a cruiser, or maybe even in a frig if you're as good as you're supposed to be ;) - afk |
CortexX |
Posted - 2003.06.26 19:33:00 -
[7] I have looked in dozens of regions, planets, moons, asteroid belts, I have yet to find something that even remotley challenges my battleships. Yes, 4 cruisers are fun, but its so rare other ships come to fight against you. I would like some tougher bship classed pirates out in the non empire space were they should be. I have to laugh at this ..... Maybe if people could come and get in the same sector as you without the hundreds of floating cargo cannisters so that they can get a shot off before you kill them in lag you`d have more fun . Its no fun for anyone else hunting you down because you exploit the system to gain an unfair advantage . Right now you are a boy in the playground thats getting bored because the other boys wont play your ball game , people arn`t stupid , they know they will die as their ship warps into a system and their net connection has to recieve the huge can-spam before they can move . This leaves you with a few choices , play the game in a sportsmanlike way and have fun with the rest of the server , or play with your ball on your own with your side kicks under your own rules. I tried explaining this to Jo0t last night after he lag spammed and pod killed my corp member for the third time this week and his reply was ( I Like Blowing up ships to see whats in them ) . I think you maybe see the negative side effects of hanging out with a bunch of guys that like to behave as a$$holes to the rest of the player base . Maybe someday other PC ships will actually seek you our for battle so that all of you can have fun, but with your playstyle i seriously doubt it. Cortexx ( Freelancers guild member ) |
 Sleekit |
Posted - 2003.06.26 19:38:00 -
[8] Please you may hate him but his points are valid we're only a short bit into retail and already people are into the high end of the game, cruisers only take a week to get even in high sec space and once you have one of them money becomes pitufully easy to make again even in high sec space. Whats left for the future ? Oh right level 2 tech which will give even more powerfull weapons to people who obviously don't need them. Nope thats just not going to cut it, the only excitement is going to come from corp wars but none of the big corps want to go to war, so go on m0o take the initiative and start a big war lets see the games potential. |
 Morkt Drakt |
Posted - 2003.06.26 19:42:00 -
[9] It doesn't have to be battleships Ywev - it could be any decent mix of existing ships. Given enough variety and capability to use their own modules and given decent and varied loadouts. Oh yeah - and adding some actual AI. . |
Ywev |
Posted - 2003.06.26 19:43:00 -
[10] Sooner or later, you will be to were I am at, when you get there, ya will think hmm, what should i do today, fit 6 mining lasers and mine, or kill pirates, so you opt to go kill npc's warp into that 0.0, and wow you just destroyed all 6 of them in whoa a nice 15 seconds... So as ya keep on clearin belts faster and faster, there is no, whoa a npc bship, might have to work harder on this. So, now i use my bships to harden the lives of players... Until more high end content is ingame, the gimme your stuff run will happen and so forth. Pod ya later.. Ywev |
 Ywev |
Posted - 2003.06.26 19:45:00 -
[11] also, for the person that said, isn't PVP enough, npc's don't whine and send ya mail, and start chat convo's with ya, they just give ya the bounty on them and loot. :) Sometimes nicer to not hear someone whine oh, you killed my ship.. blah blah blah Pod ya later.. Ywev |
 Jash Illian |
Posted - 2003.06.26 19:56:00 -
[12] Ywev isn't wrong, yall know. For the content currently availible, you don't really need to go beyond a cruiser. And the situations that would require a battleship involve fighting another player in a battleship, which most of the players are terrified of doing. They don't like to risk the the loss. NPC pirates against a bship stand about as much chance as a rifter vs a bship. People are using battleships to equip even more mining lasers to hover up more roid chunks. Odd that a ship class named called Battleship is used more for mining than fighting. The high end gameplay of Player vs Player and corp wars has thus far failed to materialize as those people with the massive resources to have battleships use them to make more money and nothing more. TTI and their stance on the M0o situation is a prime example. "Why fight if its going to cost me isk". So the high end game that players could provide hasn't materialized. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Morkt Drakt |
Posted - 2003.06.26 19:56:00 -
[13] Negative sec players shouldn't even earn bounty on NPC pirates. . |
 Risien Drogonne |
Posted - 2003.06.26 20:14:00 -
[14] We said all this back in beta. There's no endgame content. The fanbois tried to convince us all that CCP had just kept it hidden, saved for release. We teased them a bit for being naive, but we couldn't really prove it. The question is... Were we really expecting the content to magically appear when we reached the endgame? Just the fact that we reached the endgame a few weeks into the game shows it's all whacked, doesn't it? |
 Sleekit |
Posted - 2003.06.26 20:17:00 -
[15] Lol I loved the fanbois, where'd that one go that was always raving about EVE, you know the one who was going to start a company manufacturing advanced clones ;D is he doing it yet ? hmm.. was that a hint of sarcasm from me ? |
 Lola |
Posted - 2003.06.26 21:10:00 -
[16] You anti-m0o people are pathetic. You get podded once or even hear about someone who pods and now you can't even listen to a valid point they make. This game DOES seriously lack content. Close to 2 months in and many players can solo the hardest areas (you don't need a battleship to do this, it's just easier). Race has absolutely no meaning what-so-ever. The storyline which was fun to read about on this site has yet to materialize. There is no way to effect the world. There is nothing to do other than collect more cool stuff. (I happen to like collecting cool stuff) I hope something happens soon that addresses the content issue. Once we're all in battleships safely mining in 0.0 what will be the point? I know there are huge balance issues that still need to be addressed but I think different people at CCP work on different things. I have a few ideas for content that I'm going to save for another post because I can see this thread going down in a ball of flames soon. ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
 Joshua Calvert |
Posted - 2003.06.26 21:32:00 -
[17] Battleships were available much too early. They should take them away, refund the owners the cost of their battleship/battleship BP, and spend more time allowing people to have finely-balanced battle-cruisers instead of using cruisers simply to mine to get a battleship. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert |
Posted - 2003.06.26 21:36:00 -
[18] As for content - would you want CCP to introduce a vast array of new stuff before they've even fixed the current content? I say you should all have a bit of patience and let CCP sort out the current issues before you complain about issues yet to arise. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Animal Mother |
Posted - 2003.06.26 21:56:00 -
[19] "boo hoo my (edited) hurts when people send me emails, I can't find battleships to fight so I'm going to pod Ibis noobs" STFU whiner, nobody cares what you want or how you justify your sociopathic activities. Edited by: Animal Mother on 26/06/2003 21:56:21 |
 Risien Drogonne |
Posted - 2003.06.26 21:57:00 -
[20] <<As for content - would you want CCP to introduce a vast array of new stuff before they've even fixed the current content? I say you should all have a bit of patience and let CCP sort out the current issues before you complain about issues yet to arise. >> No, we'd prefer that they act like a normal MMORPG company and hire enough people to have one team working on new content, and the other team working on fixing existing content. |
Joshua Calvert |
Posted - 2003.06.26 22:01:00 -
[21] Perhaps they're pandering to the desires of the vast majority and fixing Step 2 before approaching Step 22? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Fusco T |
Posted - 2003.06.26 22:34:00 -
[22] Ywev is right. The game is at this point conquered. How do you mean? Well let's see they have taken on the best the player base can throw. They have taken on the best the police can throw. I'm sure they have taken on the hardest mobs. They have sat in the middle of empire space with near impunity. Except for the shelling they took :) Hell they didn't lose a corp ship only morph got killed. Ok So what's left? They have 7 out of 10 of the only list in the game (most wanted). They are the topic of nearly half the threads, have made the news more times than anyone else. So what is left? Waiting? Mining? Problem with this economy is that it isn't real. If water doesn't get to a colony it doesn't perish. If trade items don't make it to where they are needed it doesn't matter. See that is what makes this econmy nothing more than moving numbers around. That is why 1000's don't enter passari and move m0o by sheer numbers because one can easily avoid the area and not suffer any. In a real economy if someone shut down trucking routes people would start seeing prices rise, and eventually people would starve and die. Essentially the world goes on without any of the player base, and there is no importance to player actions. If no one kills NPCs to they grow stronger and encroach on empire space? No. Everything anyone does in this game makes no impact on the world at all except an asteroid may be missing till it spawns or nps price for and item is lower today but will be back up tomorrow. The game central mechanics are: Trade: Get on early to kill the robotics market Mining: mine better rocks with refine in same sector. PK: Sit in .4 space near busy jump gates Greif: Figure out yet another clever way to f over you fellow m8. Usually involving unreal game/network mechanics. BPs: Research them, copy them sell them. Mfr: Get BPs, get minerals. Build stuff. Sell or use yourself. Ok great, has anyone asked themselves to what end they are doing the above? Is it until you get bored and move on? I at first thought the universe had an actual market in it. It does not. I thought there was an economy. There is not. I thought players affected the universe. They do not. So you can call ywev a whole sack of mofos but it doesn't chnage the fact that the only people in this game who are working towards an end is pirates to get on the most wanted list or measure themselves with the bounty money. Blah. BO-ring. |
Ronyo Dae'Loki |
Posted - 2003.06.26 23:40:00 -
[23] /me waits for more content ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Jontene |
Posted - 2003.06.27 00:52:00 -
[24] Ywev does make a good point, aside from that he really needs to get a life outside of video games :) The NPCs and AI in the game are simply not hard enough. I can destroy four NPC Moas in my Merlin, and I know I don't have even close to the best setup you could in a Merlin. This is just totally unrealistic. CCP is relying too much on player interaction to interest us. We need to be able to still have something to do while interacting with the other players. |
Rising Sin |
Posted - 2003.06.27 00:55:00 -
[25] For once, I actually agree with Ywev. I'm in a Stabber and I can't find npc pirates that are any challenge. CCP, put some pirate bships in more systems, please! -- "If they're shooting at you, you know you must be doing something right." |
 wordy |
Posted - 2003.06.27 01:09:00 -
[26] I see both sides of the arguement here. The power players are at the very top of their trade and are getting a bit bored But for the majority, who aren't in battleships yet they are (i think)enjoying the game and the rewards that come with it. Not all content has been added yet, remember the Jove?, as far as I can tell they have yet to put in an appearance, same with player built stations and I assume the same goes for Titans. I'm hoping that there will be stuff that we don't know about that will be added in due course. EVE was meant to give everyone almost complete freedom to do what they want, if the mega corps don't want to go into full scale war and risk their hard earned battleships then thats not CCP's fault. Another aspect of the free form universe is that players are able to roleplay just about any sort of lifestyle they want, from religous nutters to scumbag Pirates/random murderers. and I bet the players that are willing to get into roleplaying are alot less bored than the "power levelers" who just log on and hunt/mine all day. I have to agree with an earlier post that the problem with the ecconomy is that it's not real and if an area is being blockaded players just avoid it and the prices stay the same. Realisticly if a system was blockaded and the people of those planets faced starvation then the empire navies would move to remove the threat and avert a humanitarian disaster. So I'm not sure what the best way to go about improving this would be. Anyway I've started to ramble on a bit so I'll leave it there Edited by: wordy on 27/06/2003 01:09:50 "Hey, I am cool. My mum said so!" - Milhouse Van Houten |
Bonegnasher |
Posted - 2003.06.27 01:17:00 -
[27] I must agree with the Moo guy on this one. We definately need more challenging NPC pirates in the game. I can take my cruiser out and destroy an endless stream of any pirate in the game with little to no fear of being destroyed myself. And you anti-moo guys that jumped on this post and used it to start flaming MOO sound like a bunch of pathetic idiots. Just because the guy is a pirate doesnt mean that he cant make a legitimate post about game content without having to be flamed by a bunch of losers.... Those guys must be doing something right, they are managing to keep par with my corp with the whole galaxy hot on their heels... Although I dont agree with some of their tactics, they are obviously intelligent gamers.... "When in doubt, get a bigger gun." |
Annis Drak |
Posted - 2003.06.27 01:30:00 -
[28] Bunch of loonies - hes searched a dozen systems and met a 4 cruiser group so hes' "da man in da know!" Whoopy-bloomin-doo That certainly isnt the toughest NPC group and hes never met me, so he hasn't faced the toughest PC either. God - you m0o apologist cheerleaders really need a dose of reality sometimes. He sits podding n00bies and those who haven't loaded onto their screens yet and you think hes an "expert" on what the game offers? Give me a break. NPCs suck - we've been saying that since beta - its nothing new, yet you think little-lost-boy yev has suddenly discovered the Holy Grail is a plastic urinal whilst nobody else noticed? give me, and everybody else, a break. Battleships arent the answer - Ai and NPC utilisation of modules is, along with the introduction of an Encounter system as opposed to the almost fixed spawns we currently have. Im am thrououghly uninterested in providing the shallow level of "interest" that adding readily available npc battleships will add... i want a challenge - and that starts at the bottom , not by throwing in bigger bangs on equally weak foundations. For those who havent got a clue what i'm talking about - cary on with the iconography and saying how yev's found a urinal... ah sorry, holy grail. |
 Pyroe |
Posted - 2003.06.27 03:16:00 -
[29] Add new content and make NPC pirates tuffer for the few that have an easy time? For every post about how easy it is there is one waiting to be posted at how hard they are. Look at past history of the boards and the game. Remember the uber missle toating killer pirate threads? The threads where perhaps one of the biggest fanboys of them all "Hippie" was having coniptions about how stupid the devs were by making them over powered? Well the mix in eve now is very high level players wanting more and the lower players not being able to go there. Not saying there shouldn't be some kind of spread in the game just that those that venture out and get wolloped will whine they can't access those area's and replies will be they should stay in safe space. Face it CCP is not going to add more challenging content. It's far easier to nerf the livin crap out of your skills and devices to make it tough again for you. The same way they have done to tone down the power of those that have trained skills and aquired items making them more powerful then the average player. Don't start flaming about exploits and balance yadayadayada. If the skills didnt stack and the devices didn't stack the battles would still last 15 seconds in some cases and the nerf bat swings some more. All these posts just lead to the same outcome. Reduction of skills and device attributes. So in finishing here just equip your trusty old newb weapon and go out hunting. It just may be a future reality. Edited by: Pyroe on 27/06/2003 03:18:47 |
Axelay |
Posted - 2003.06.27 03:31:00 -
[30] Hey Risien. Haven't seen you since you forced me out of Fenix and set me on my path of destruction and mayhem. ::kisses:: _____ m0o |
Fusco T |
Posted - 2003.06.27 03:36:00 -
[31] First off I don't see anyone calling ywev the second flippin' coming. Second he pointed something out. Some simply disagreed because of his rep which is fine. Because I think his corp are a bunch of A$$ hats too. The point being the game is nothing but an over inflated FPS. It took me all of a few hours to figure out the "market". It took even less to figure out what and where to mine. I and anyone's grandma can kite the double spawn roid belts 5 cruisers and 8 frigates. Hell I was using all small weapons at the time. You can't actually sell anything on the market with much value except ships. All the "uber" loot has to be sold via trade channel. You can still lose your ship and mods to lag or crashes and ccp won't lift a finger. There are no stats to measure success in the game except a most wanted list. The game is an fps designed and encouraged. Like any good fps camping spawn points gets the most kills. We need better mob AI? That's your solution? give me a break. How about a real market? How about a stock market? How about some background? How about a top bounty hunter list? How about a top trader list? How about an evolving story line that the universe is going through and flying missions etc.. you discover plots and conspiracies? How about a whole number of things to make the game other than an fps with brutal timesinks. Heck half the stuff isn't even in the game yet. But oddly enough I can still make a char with the "trade" skill and train it without a single warning that I am wasting my time. |
 Fusco T |
Posted - 2003.06.27 03:36:00 -
[32] First off I don't see anyone calling ywev the second flippin' coming. Second he pointed something out. Some simply disagreed because of his rep which is fine. Because I think his corp are a bunch of A$$ hats too. The point being the game is nothing but an over inflated FPS. It took me all of a few hours to figure out the "market". It took even less to figure out what and where to mine. I and anyone's grandma can kite the double spawn roid belts 5 cruisers and 8 frigates. Hell I was using all small weapons at the time. You can't actually sell anything on the market with much value except ships. All the "uber" loot has to be sold via trade channel. You can still lose your ship and mods to lag or crashes and ccp won't lift a finger. There are no stats to measure success in the game except a most wanted list. The game is an fps designed and encouraged. Like any good fps camping spawn points gets the most kills. We need better mob AI? That's your solution? give me a break. How about a real market? How about a stock market? How about some background? How about a top bounty hunter list? How about a top trader list? How about an evolving story line that the universe is going through and flying missions etc.. you discover plots and conspiracies? How about a whole number of things to make the game other than an fps with brutal timesinks. Heck half the stuff isn't even in the game yet. But oddly enough I can still make a char with the "trade" skill and train it without a single warning that I am wasting my time. |
Ends |
Posted - 2003.06.27 03:49:00 -
[33] You know I have really gone beyond anger with mOo. These guys are so pitable that it gives me a headache to read their posts. I just feel so sorry for them it makes me feel a little sick. |
 Ends Ends Journey |
Posted - 2003.06.27 03:49:00 -
[34] You know I have really gone beyond anger with mOo. These guys are so pitable that it gives me a headache to read their posts. I just feel so sorry for them it makes me feel a little sick. |
Risien Drogonne |
Posted - 2003.06.27 04:14:00 -
[35] <<Hey Risien. Haven't seen you since you forced me out of Fenix and set me on my path of destruction and mayhem>> I didn't have anything to do with it, sorry. The corp directors thought you to be unworthy of trust so they locked you out of the hangar. A day later you cleaned it out with your wife's account (yep, poo on us for forgetting about her) and joined moo. You only have yourself to blame. |
 Risien Drogonne Shadow Gypsies R i s e |
Posted - 2003.06.27 04:14:00 -
[36] <<Hey Risien. Haven't seen you since you forced me out of Fenix and set me on my path of destruction and mayhem>> I didn't have anything to do with it, sorry. The corp directors thought you to be unworthy of trust so they locked you out of the hangar. A day later you cleaned it out with your wife's account (yep, poo on us for forgetting about her) and joined moo. You only have yourself to blame. |
Nephthys |
Posted - 2003.06.27 05:01:00 -
[37] Fusco T Everything you said is completly right - except "half the stuff isn¦t even in the game yet" Its more like 80% -90% isnt in the game! But beware - telling the truth on this boards is very risky - you are immediatly a "whiner"! Fanboys dont want to here the truth! -Trade skills - trade, bartering, smuggling blackmarket trading ..? -dynamic Market? -Social skills - connections, criminal connections, negotiations, diplomacy...any influence on gameplay? - well implemented agent system? -rich background story and storyline? -"glorious vistas"? - something to explore in this universe? - implants? - booster? -new mining system? dev: "The new minig system is a far cry from the potatoes in the mist we currently have" (Feb 2003) And so on and on! I am tired to list all the missing features over and over again! People have told me, that this game isnt easy, a real intellectual challenge !? Wow Mining is easy Trading is easy Fighting is easy Exploring is useless Reseaching is easy Manufacturing is easy You only need TIME - really nothing else - only TIME! |
 Nephthys |
Posted - 2003.06.27 05:01:00 -
[38] Fusco T Everything you said is completly right - except "half the stuff isn¦t even in the game yet" Its more like 80% -90% isnt in the game! But beware - telling the truth on this boards is very risky - you are immediatly a "whiner"! Fanboys dont want to here the truth! -Trade skills - trade, bartering, smuggling blackmarket trading ..? -dynamic Market? -Social skills - connections, criminal connections, negotiations, diplomacy...any influence on gameplay? - well implemented agent system? -rich background story and storyline? -"glorious vistas"? - something to explore in this universe? - implants? - booster? -new mining system? dev: "The new minig system is a far cry from the potatoes in the mist we currently have" (Feb 2003) And so on and on! I am tired to list all the missing features over and over again! People have told me, that this game isnt easy, a real intellectual challenge !? Wow Mining is easy Trading is easy Fighting is easy Exploring is useless Reseaching is easy Manufacturing is easy You only need TIME - really nothing else - only TIME! |
Lexs |
Posted - 2003.06.27 05:11:00 -
[39] If you want a challenge, buy me a battleship. Yea... that'll do. ;) |
 Lexs |
Posted - 2003.06.27 05:11:00 -
[40] If you want a challenge, buy me a battleship. Yea... that'll do. ;) |
Commissar Gaunt |
Posted - 2003.06.27 05:14:00 -
[41] The problem is not lack of anything in the game, its that players are focusing on the wormg thing. All anyone is talking about is "more items/harder NPCs/better ships and be quick about it!", thats not the way the game is meant to be played, this is a game about RP, and WE are meant to shape EVE, WE are meant to create the storylines, with the help of the polaris team doing events, the NPC pirates/corps/governments are there to give us a base to work on, the problem is not CCP not putting any content in or nerfing stuff, its that people ar not willing to put in the time and effort to actually PLAY THE GAME, and by PLAY I do not mean mine or fight but RP a character that you have thought up that fits into EVE, someone said that the races mean nothing anymore, the only reason for this is players are too soft, they will not play a hateful old git who oppresses people, or a rebel, or an interfering sanctimoniuos guy, or a ruthless money grubbing lacenistic capatilist, and if you wont put in the time and effort, then go play NWN, where the story is linear and fed to you bit by bit so its nice and EASY. Edited by: Commissar Gaunt on 27/06/2003 05:16:13 ----------------------------------------------- "Nemo me impune lacessit" |
 Commissar Gaunt Amarr Doomheim |
Posted - 2003.06.27 05:14:00 -
[42] The problem is not lack of anything in the game, its that players are focusing on the wormg thing. All anyone is talking about is "more items/harder NPCs/better ships and be quick about it!", thats not the way the game is meant to be played, this is a game about RP, and WE are meant to shape EVE, WE are meant to create the storylines, with the help of the polaris team doing events, the NPC pirates/corps/governments are there to give us a base to work on, the problem is not CCP not putting any content in or nerfing stuff, its that people ar not willing to put in the time and effort to actually PLAY THE GAME, and by PLAY I do not mean mine or fight but RP a character that you have thought up that fits into EVE, someone said that the races mean nothing anymore, the only reason for this is players are too soft, they will not play a hateful old git who oppresses people, or a rebel, or an interfering sanctimoniuos guy, or a ruthless money grubbing lacenistic capatilist, and if you wont put in the time and effort, then go play NWN, where the story is linear and fed to you bit by bit so its nice and EASY. Edited by: Commissar Gaunt on 27/06/2003 05:16:13 ----------------------------------------------- "Nemo me impune lacessit" |
Risien Drogonne |
Posted - 2003.06.27 05:16:00 -
[43] <<The problem is not lack of anything in the game, its that players are focusing on the wormg thing.>> After reading that sentence 15 times, I still can't figure out what it means. What's a "wormg"? Edit: Oh oh oh, I finally got it. "Wrong". Sorry, I'm slow sometimes :) Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 27/06/2003 05:18:09 |
Risien Drogonne Shadow Gypsies R i s e |
Posted - 2003.06.27 05:16:00 -
[44] <<The problem is not lack of anything in the game, its that players are focusing on the wormg thing.>> After reading that sentence 15 times, I still can't figure out what it means. What's a "wormg"? Edit: Oh oh oh, I finally got it. "Wrong". Sorry, I'm slow sometimes :) Edited by: Risien Drogonne on 27/06/2003 05:18:09 |
Nephthys |
Posted - 2003.06.27 05:52:00 -
[45] Commissar Gaunt You want us to Role Play this game - I want RP too But EVE is supposed to "give us a base to work on"! For example: You want to RP an Explorer - the fact is , you are completly worthless in EVE! Do you need some special equipment like scanners and something like that or any skills to find these "rare"!? ores? Everybody, and i mean everybody, is able to find these "rare" things without anything special. Sure, you can Role Play an explorer nevertheless, but EVE dont "give you the base to work on"! Or you want to Role Play a trader! Do you really think, that the market in EVE is dynamic, that the goods you are able to trade influence the game - example: do people on some planets need some water and food for example, and by deliverig these you are able to earn much money and to save many lives - once more you can Role play a trader nevertheless but EVE dont "give you the base to work on"! This market "is nothing more than moving numbers around" ( thank you Fusco T for this!) Or you want to Role Play a minmatar freedom Fighter, fighting against the amar or something like that - "Standing" isnt really implemented, so anything you are doing in EVE has nearly no influence on the game, besides your security status ( oh really great) - and again, you can Role Play a freedom fighter nevertheless but EVE dont "give you the base to work on" Edited by: Nephthys on 27/06/2003 06:08:35 |
Nephthys |
Posted - 2003.06.27 05:52:00 -
[46] Commissar Gaunt You want us to Role Play this game - I want RP too But EVE is supposed to "give us a base to work on"! For example: You want to RP an Explorer - the fact is , you are completly worthless in EVE! Do you need some special equipment like scanners and something like that or any skills to find these "rare"!? ores? Everybody, and i mean everybody, is able to find these "rare" things without anything special. Sure, you can Role Play an explorer nevertheless, but EVE dont "give you the base to work on"! Or you want to Role Play a trader! Do you really think, that the market in EVE is dynamic, that the goods you are able to trade influence the game - example: do people on some planets need some water and food for example, and by deliverig these you are able to earn much money and to save many lives - once more you can Role play a trader nevertheless but EVE dont "give you the base to work on"! This market "is nothing more than moving numbers around" ( thank you Fusco T for this!) Or you want to Role Play a minmatar freedom Fighter, fighting against the amar or something like that - "Standing" isnt really implemented, so anything you are doing in EVE has nearly no influence on the game, besides your security status ( oh really great) - and again, you can Role Play a freedom fighter nevertheless but EVE dont "give you the base to work on" Edited by: Nephthys on 27/06/2003 06:08:35 |
Axelay |
Posted - 2003.06.27 06:05:00 -
[47] You're right Ris' I blame myself. The millions I got from refining all that stuff bought me just about every skill that I needed. Left me 'hurtin' really badly. ::giggles:: I'm really glad, I dunno that I would be having nearly this much fun if you had not backed me in to a corner and given me motivation to screw you guys over and get out. Thanks :) _____ m0o |
 Axelay Minmatar Brutor tribe |
Posted - 2003.06.27 06:05:00 -
[48] You're right Ris' I blame myself. The millions I got from refining all that stuff bought me just about every skill that I needed. Left me 'hurtin' really badly. ::giggles:: I'm really glad, I dunno that I would be having nearly this much fun if you had not backed me in to a corner and given me motivation to screw you guys over and get out. Thanks :) _____ m0o |
Soul Reaver |
Posted - 2003.06.27 07:24:00 -
[49] Ywev We have several things planned for you :) You wont be in it for much longer so I would start saving for your next one if I was you! Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants Currently chasing Lianhaun |
 Soul Reaver Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc. |
Posted - 2003.06.27 07:24:00 -
[50] Ywev We have several things planned for you :) You wont be in it for much longer so I would start saving for your next one if I was you! Advanced Run Away / Rank 5 / SP: 507439 of 1280000 Currently training to: level 5 Time left: 12 days, 22 hours, 3 minutes, 24 seconds |
Bambi |
Posted - 2003.06.27 08:09:00 -
[51] Maybe this could be the end of M0o then, it wont be another corp or alliance of corps that wipe them out, bordem will be the killer. I can see how it can get boring poding frigates and indy ships from a battleship or cruiser. That would be like mining in a 0.9 sec system with a cruiser and fighting the belt spawns for a challenge!!! Why not go to Jove space and wait for a GM to come and remove you, and try to pod kill him....(or her) Another alternative is to kill yer main characters and start a true roleplaying character that doesnt just play the game mechanics to min/max stats and skills, now there is a novel idea............. If God made us to be just like him, then God is dumb and maybe a little ugly on the side...[F.Z] |
 Bambi |
Posted - 2003.06.27 08:09:00 -
[52] Maybe this could be the end of M0o then, it wont be another corp or alliance of corps that wipe them out, bordem will be the killer. I can see how it can get boring poding frigates and indy ships from a battleship or cruiser. That would be like mining in a 0.9 sec system with a cruiser and fighting the belt spawns for a challenge!!! Why not go to Jove space and wait for a GM to come and remove you, and try to pod kill him....(or her) Another alternative is to kill yer main characters and start a true roleplaying character that doesnt just play the game mechanics to min/max stats and skills, now there is a novel idea............. |
Joshua Calvert |
Posted - 2003.06.27 08:25:00 -
[53] Boredom comes from having the best ships far too quickly - anything worth having has been gotten in the first 2 months. Hardly condusive to long-term roleplaying, eh? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
 Joshua Calvert Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. |
Posted - 2003.06.27 08:25:00 -
[54] Boredom comes from having the best ships far too quickly - anything worth having has been gotten in the first 2 months. Hardly condusive to long-term roleplaying, eh? |
Brock |
Posted - 2003.06.27 09:21:00 -
[55] "" No, we'd prefer that they act like a normal MMORPG company and hire enough people to have one team working on new content, and the other team working on fixing existing content. "" Just want to say a HUGE 'Amen' to that sentiment. Where are the global NPC events that could excite/unite people? There is precious little communication from CCP in this forum save the usual *clicks* (yawn) so we can't be sure they are coming, and if they are on the way they will have been tested out on 4 players and small dog so god only knows if they will hang together anyway! |
 Brock Gallente Aliastra |
Posted - 2003.06.27 09:21:00 -
[56] "" No, we'd prefer that they act like a normal MMORPG company and hire enough people to have one team working on new content, and the other team working on fixing existing content. "" Just want to say a HUGE 'Amen' to that sentiment. Where are the global NPC events that could excite/unite people? There is precious little communication from CCP in this forum save the usual *clicks* (yawn) so we can't be sure they are coming, and if they are on the way they will have been tested out on 4 players and small dog so god only knows if they will hang together anyway! |
Carp Riddell |
Posted - 2003.06.27 10:56:00 -
[57] Just as a matter of interest, how many of those of you complaining in this thread that there's nothing left to achieve in the game are _actually_ flying battleships? The galaxy is hardly swarming with them. - Carp Riddell - CEO, Innsmouth Shipping - Proud Member of Curse Alliance |
 Carp Riddell Minmatar Sebiestor tribe |
Posted - 2003.06.27 10:56:00 -
[58] Just as a matter of interest, how many of those of you complaining in this thread that there's nothing left to achieve in the game are _actually_ flying battleships? The galaxy is hardly swarming with them. - Carp Riddell - CEO, Innsmouth Shipping - Proud Member of Curse Alliance |
ABNTanker |
Posted - 2003.06.27 11:05:00 -
[59] A major issue as far as content goes is player made stations. ALOT of player interaction can take place with them but I have yet to hear of anyone actually finding one of those platforms. I also heard a nasty rumour that player made stations cant be destroyed, I sure hope that isnt true. Titans and player made jump gates are other things as well. |
 ABNTanker Brutor tribe |
Posted - 2003.06.27 11:05:00 -
[60] A major issue as far as content goes is player made stations. ALOT of player interaction can take place with them but I have yet to hear of anyone actually finding one of those platforms. I also heard a nasty rumour that player made stations cant be destroyed, I sure hope that isnt true. Titans and player made jump gates are other things as well. |
Mr Kipper |
Posted - 2003.06.27 11:19:00 -
[61] "Quit your whining" !! A game is about a lot more than how much eqiptment and money you can gain its about fun , if you are not having fun then i suggest you go do something else. Besides only mininmaxing powergamers will have battleships in month most of us mortals still fly humble old cruisers, Maybe if you developed lives outside EVE you wwouldnt be on 24/7 And therefor have complteted it already. |
 Mr Kipper |
Posted - 2003.06.27 11:19:00 -
[62] "Quit your whining" !! A game is about a lot more than how much eqiptment and money you can gain its about fun , if you are not having fun then i suggest you go do something else. Besides only mininmaxing powergamers will have battleships in month most of us mortals still fly humble old cruisers, Maybe if you developed lives outside EVE you wwouldnt be on 24/7 And therefor have complteted it already. |
Tharrn |
Posted - 2003.06.27 11:30:00 -
[63] It's like in any MMOG: people who are just rushing towards that highest level or best equipment will tell you they have seen all and done all when they are there - and then they quit claiming the game is boring. That's why people actually roleplaying are the ones that last longest in almost every online-game :P For the Battleships: with a little thinking one might find them... tehehe. Just sitting at a gate for days on end is probably not the solution ;) |
 Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria |
Posted - 2003.06.27 11:30:00 -
[64] It's like in any MMOG: people who are just rushing towards that highest level or best equipment will tell you they have seen all and done all when they are there - and then they quit claiming the game is boring. That's why people actually roleplaying are the ones that last longest in almost every online-game :P For the Battleships: with a little thinking one might find them... tehehe. Just sitting at a gate for days on end is probably not the solution ;) Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam. |
Carp Riddell |
Posted - 2003.06.27 11:39:00 -
[65] Spot on Tharn! There's an "R" in "MMORPG" for a very good reason. Boredom is a dead cert if you're hell bent on treating Eve as a "Massively Multiplayer Online exercise in applied mathematics"... (Oooh, it hurts to agree with a *****y Amarr!) - Carp Riddell - CEO, Innsmouth Shipping - Proud Member of Curse Alliance |
Mulu Xump |
Posted - 2003.06.27 11:39:00 -
[66] I agree with the things that have been said about trading in this thread. I want to be a trader but because I have to work and I'm not able to login at 13:01 GMT with a fleet of Bestowers at my command the career isn't open to me. I'm prepared to stick it out though and I hope CCP will reward me for my patience (and subs). As for high level content. If people want to play the game like there doing their maths homework and it has to be in by tommorow then who's fault is that? I suspect that they'de get bored with the high level content even if it was there. If you're bored go and do something else. You really don't HAVE to play Eve. ----------------------------------------- Don't jump off the roof dad. You'll make a hole in the yard. ----------------------------------------- |
 Mulu Xump Amarr |
Posted - 2003.06.27 11:39:00 -
[67] I agree with the things that have been said about trading in this thread. I want to be a trader but because I have to work and I'm not able to login at 13:01 GMT with a fleet of Bestowers at my command the career isn't open to me. I'm prepared to stick it out though and I hope CCP will reward me for my patience (and subs). As for high level content. If people want to play the game like there doing their maths homework and it has to be in by tommorow then who's fault is that? I suspect that they'de get bored with the high level content even if it was there. If you're bored go and do something else. You really don't HAVE to play Eve. ----------------------------------------- Don't jump off the roof dad. You'll make a hole in the yard. ----------------------------------------- |
Carp Riddell Minmatar Sebiestor tribe |
Posted - 2003.06.27 11:39:00 -
[68] Spot on Tharn! There's an "R" in "MMORPG" for a very good reason. Boredom is a dead cert if you're hell bent on treating Eve as a "Massively Multiplayer Online exercise in applied mathematics"... (Oooh, it hurts to agree with a *****y Amarr!) - Carp Riddell - CEO, Innsmouth Shipping - Proud Member of Curse Alliance |
Brock |
Posted - 2003.06.27 12:02:00 -
[69] >>Just as a matter of interest, how many of those of you complaining in this thread that there's nothing left to achieve in the game are _actually_ flying battleships? The galaxy is hardly swarming with them.<< That pre-supposes that the only progression people want in this game involves moving on to a bigger and better ship. Im talking about events. I dunno, maybe a wormhole opens in one system through it flows a stream of uber equipment. Players flood the system and fight it out for possession. Maybe some brave sould take the leap through it and communication with them is lost... yadda yadda you get the picture! Whether CCP has built a game engine that could deal out that kind of narrative is a whole other question. I think Axelay mentioned the extreme lag people had when he was part of a 30 player battle... so it doesn't look very feasable Im afraid. |
Brock Gallente Aliastra |
Posted - 2003.06.27 12:02:00 -
[70] >>Just as a matter of interest, how many of those of you complaining in this thread that there's nothing left to achieve in the game are _actually_ flying battleships? The galaxy is hardly swarming with them.<< That pre-supposes that the only progression people want in this game involves moving on to a bigger and better ship. Im talking about events. I dunno, maybe a wormhole opens in one system through it flows a stream of uber equipment. Players flood the system and fight it out for possession. Maybe some brave sould take the leap through it and communication with them is lost... yadda yadda you get the picture! Whether CCP has built a game engine that could deal out that kind of narrative is a whole other question. I think Axelay mentioned the extreme lag people had when he was part of a 30 player battle... so it doesn't look very feasable Im afraid. |
 Ywev |
Posted - 2003.06.27 12:42:00 -
[71] Ywev We have several things planned for you :) You wont be in it for much longer so I would start saving for your next one if I was you! Oh, all your long range stuff is gettin nerfed :( btw, did ya like our range/damage? :) However, there is no high game content, or content at all, so sitting here killing people is losing it's fun. Yea, people whine and what not, but I don't see it lasting long. It's only gonna make more corp go pirating because there is nothing to do once you obtain a high level. nothing at all. Pod ya later.. Ywev |
 Ywev Minmatar |
Posted - 2003.06.27 12:42:00 -
[72] Ywev We have several things planned for you :) You wont be in it for much longer so I would start saving for your next one if I was you! Oh, all your long range stuff is gettin nerfed :( btw, did ya like our range/damage? :) However, there is no high game content, or content at all, so sitting here killing people is losing it's fun. Yea, people whine and what not, but I don't see it lasting long. It's only gonna make more corp go pirating because there is nothing to do once you obtain a high level. nothing at all. Pod ya later.. Ywev |
ChironV |
Posted - 2003.06.27 12:49:00 -
[73] You want a challenge... Find a Pirate Station. Destroy it. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, |
 ChironV Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc. |
Posted - 2003.06.27 12:49:00 -
[74] You want a challenge... Find a Pirate Station. Destroy it. ________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, |
Krait |
Posted - 2003.06.27 13:10:00 -
[75] I think that one change could really impact game play. That would be to make security ratings work. If you were preying on Amarr convoys...Amarr security would be crap and you would be unable to use Amarr bases..in fact would be fired upon on sight. Make being, or attacking a specific race amount to something. I can kill Gurista's and still use a Gurista base...give me a break. What pirate organization would let me drop in for a tank of gas, check the tires and clean the windshield to go back out and kill some more of them. It would complicate travel, trade and combat. You would have to consider the consequences of your actions. Maybe then the NPC battleships that they can't find would come out. Besides...he wants some competition, go to a 1.0 system in his battleship and start picking on cops or newbies. I'd be interested in know if any battleships come out then. _______________________________________________ ...been there, done that |
 Krait Caldari OHG Corp |
Posted - 2003.06.27 13:10:00 -
[76] I think that one change could really impact game play. That would be to make security ratings work. If you were preying on Amarr convoys...Amarr security would be crap and you would be unable to use Amarr bases..in fact would be fired upon on sight. Make being, or attacking a specific race amount to something. I can kill Gurista's and still use a Gurista base...give me a break. What pirate organization would let me drop in for a tank of gas, check the tires and clean the windshield to go back out and kill some more of them. It would complicate travel, trade and combat. You would have to consider the consequences of your actions. Maybe then the NPC battleships that they can't find would come out. Besides...he wants some competition, go to a 1.0 system in his battleship and start picking on cops or newbies. I'd be interested in know if any battleships come out then. _______________________________________________ ...been there, done that |
Teris Kender |
Posted - 2003.06.27 13:42:00 -
[77] I don't think players like Ywev would be interested in any kind of "content" anyway, unless it was yet more powerful weapons, monsters (oops, I mean NPC pirates), or ships. All the points on this thread about "what EVE really needs" boils down to one thing. There really is nothing you NEED in this game. No maintenance, no upkeep, no storage fees, etc. It's just make money to buy more crap. Yes, you can role-play...and I do think that is what will keep players, but there isn't all that much players can do to RP on their own. I'm sure among the older players, there is longtime experience with playing MUDS. You could implement a lot of interesing RP with MUDS, with EVE it's just your ship and chat. How about some player customization abilities? With items, bookmarks, example: "buy" a pirate spawn? (or NPC drone) leave a msg in a container? "buy" an artifact? Let's find something to really spend all that isk on. |
 Teris Kender Caldari Frontier Mining and Manufacturing |
Posted - 2003.06.27 13:42:00 -
[78] I don't think players like Ywev would be interested in any kind of "content" anyway, unless it was yet more powerful weapons, monsters (oops, I mean NPC pirates), or ships. All the points on this thread about "what EVE really needs" boils down to one thing. There really is nothing you NEED in this game. No maintenance, no upkeep, no storage fees, etc. It's just make money to buy more crap. Yes, you can role-play...and I do think that is what will keep players, but there isn't all that much players can do to RP on their own. I'm sure among the older players, there is longtime experience with playing MUDS. You could implement a lot of interesing RP with MUDS, with EVE it's just your ship and chat. How about some player customization abilities? With items, bookmarks, example: "buy" a pirate spawn? (or NPC drone) leave a msg in a container? "buy" an artifact? Let's find something to really spend all that isk on. |
Ywev |
Posted - 2003.06.27 13:54:00 -
[79] Ya know that is a great idea, I am gonna go into, .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 1.0 sec systems now and start killing afk indy miners, cops have no bearing on my bship now, toss a shield booster they barely get through that. Hmm what an idea, Man some people are gonna be hurting to night :) Pod ya later.. Ywev |
Ywev Minmatar |
Posted - 2003.06.27 13:54:00 -
[80] Ya know that is a great idea, I am gonna go into, .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 1.0 sec systems now and start killing afk indy miners, cops have no bearing on my bship now, toss a shield booster they barely get through that. Hmm what an idea, Man some people are gonna be hurting to night :) Pod ya later.. Ywev |
Athren Soulsteal |
Posted - 2003.06.27 14:18:00 -
[81] [Ya know that is a great idea, I am gonna go into, .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 1.0 sec systems now and start killing afk indy miners, cops have no bearing on my bship now, toss a shield booster they barely get through that. Hmm what an idea, Man some people are gonna be hurting to night :)] Here's a better idea.. Go to all the home worlds and tag their statues. Every home has monuments, thats what missing the gang tags painted on the side of them. That would keep you busy for a few days just in travel time. |
 Athren Soulsteal Gallente Intergalaxy Salvage And Repair |
Posted - 2003.06.27 14:18:00 -
[82] [Ya know that is a great idea, I am gonna go into, .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 1.0 sec systems now and start killing afk indy miners, cops have no bearing on my bship now, toss a shield booster they barely get through that. Hmm what an idea, Man some people are gonna be hurting to night :)] Here's a better idea.. Go to all the home worlds and tag their statues. Every home has monuments, thats what missing the gang tags painted on the side of them. That would keep you busy for a few days just in travel time. I wish I could fit all the Quote |
Kaiser |
Posted - 2003.06.27 14:48:00 -
[83] I disagree on making stronger pirates. it won't resolve anything. do people really believe EVE can last 1 or 2 years (and so creating a core community of players playing it for long) just fighting NPC pirates? No matter how strong pirates are, players will be stronger. and in any way, i fail to see how a player can have fun for 6 months killing pirates. The game lacks only one thing: territories. Give tools to build guns or stations and in general tools for a corp/player to claim a system and control. and you'll see territories/empires forming up, corp wars, diplomacy. and the game will suddenly be another game. IMO CCP should push the game towards pvp, territorial wars to add diplomacy, wars, expansionism. Adding simply more ships or loot or make harder to make money just put a *ittle/ more far the line where people will get bored. but you won't keep people playing eve for 1 year just with that. |
 Kaiser Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc. |
Posted - 2003.06.27 14:48:00 -
[84] I disagree on making stronger pirates. it won't resolve anything. do people really believe EVE can last 1 or 2 years (and so creating a core community of players playing it for long) just fighting NPC pirates? No matter how strong pirates are, players will be stronger. and in any way, i fail to see how a player can have fun for 6 months killing pirates. The game lacks only one thing: territories. Give tools to build guns or stations and in general tools for a corp/player to claim a system and control. and you'll see territories/empires forming up, corp wars, diplomacy. and the game will suddenly be another game. IMO CCP should push the game towards pvp, territorial wars to add diplomacy, wars, expansionism. Adding simply more ships or loot or make harder to make money just put a *ittle/ more far the line where people will get bored. but you won't keep people playing eve for 1 year just with that. |
Morkt Drakt |
Posted - 2003.06.27 15:57:00 -
[85] Just out of interest..Yewy what exactly is this special "high level" that you have obtained? <-- pointing out the obvious since 22654 Edited by: Morkt Drak on 27/06/2003 15:57:32 |
 Morkt Drakt Caldari Black Omega Security |
Posted - 2003.06.27 15:57:00 -
[86] Just out of interest..Yewy what exactly is this special "high level" that you have obtained? <-- pointing out the obvious since 22654 Edited by: Morkt Drak on 27/06/2003 15:57:32 |
Fusco T |
Posted - 2003.06.27 19:56:00 -
[87] My brother actually created a java/web based game with an sql backend that had more true creativity than this game has. If anyone is familiar with tradewars it was similar except way more involved. The playerbase actually created and controlled the world. You could build planets You could set up beacons, fighter drones, large solar powered weapons. You managed your planets population and production. The mob threat was random and sometimes very powerful, they could strike anywhere. There were three basic char types. Thief, fighter and trader. EACH one could compete equally through completely different ways and had their own unique abilites. No rock, paper scissors BS. Dynamic market. Was turn based to avoid power gaming. Had built in mapping feature with customized colors so one could track what he'd discovered (including signs other players left, beacons etc..) Not saying it was perfect but it had more actual challenge. This was one guy who at the same time was writing a hospital wide database app. Here they have a team of devs that can't figure out: Dynamic market math How to defeat network/game mechanics exploits. How to give non-power gamers a chance at true competition. A series of stats that measures success. A challenging AI. ... I will give CCP that this game has pretty eye candy. But I as well as a few others would probably agree, depth of the game is leagues more important than pretty backgrounds. So the current mode of competition remains: Har har I 0wnzrd j00. Step back for a second and take a look at a trend. The term "hardcore" players are usually meant those who like the shoot 'em. CCP seems to have an oppurtunity here to change the definition or at least add one where "hardcore" can mean create or destroy. Someone wants to compete through creation rather than destruction might be a good thing. In life skill at creation is MUCH more challenging than destroying. We have technology to destroy the eco system on this planet yet we don't have the technology to make a planet habitable. |
Fusco T |
Posted - 2003.06.27 19:56:00 -
[88] My brother actually created a java/web based game with an sql backend that had more true creativity than this game has. If anyone is familiar with tradewars it was similar except way more involved. The playerbase actually created and controlled the world. You could build planets You could set up beacons, fighter drones, large solar powered weapons. You managed your planets population and production. The mob threat was random and sometimes very powerful, they could strike anywhere. There were three basic char types. Thief, fighter and trader. EACH one could compete equally through completely different ways and had their own unique abilites. No rock, paper scissors BS. Dynamic market. Was turn based to avoid power gaming. Had built in mapping feature with customized colors so one could track what he'd discovered (including signs other players left, beacons etc..) Not saying it was perfect but it had more actual challenge. This was one guy who at the same time was writing a hospital wide database app. Here they have a team of devs that can't figure out: Dynamic market math How to defeat network/game mechanics exploits. How to give non-power gamers a chance at true competition. A series of stats that measures success. A challenging AI. ... I will give CCP that this game has pretty eye candy. But I as well as a few others would probably agree, depth of the game is leagues more important than pretty backgrounds. So the current mode of competition remains: Har har I 0wnzrd j00. Step back for a second and take a look at a trend. The term "hardcore" players are usually meant those who like the shoot 'em. CCP seems to have an oppurtunity here to change the definition or at least add one where "hardcore" can mean create or destroy. Someone wants to compete through creation rather than destruction might be a good thing. In life skill at creation is MUCH more challenging than destroying. We have technology to destroy the eco system on this planet yet we don't have the technology to make a planet habitable. |
Demangel |
Posted - 2003.06.27 21:41:00 -
[89] Is it really impossible to be fair to someone who has a valid point? Even if he did realise it from a bad angle? NPC pirates eed to be harder, but not by giving them exploitative super missiles, and speeds... Look at the NPC ships your fighting for a second. In an Atron I was capable of atomizing 6 NPC atrons, even when they DID have the exploited movement speeds. Why? I could mount two turrets a handful of defensive medium modules, and low slot modules. Well I can't speak for low or medium slot equipment, but I KNOW that NPC's never carry or at least never SHOOT more than one turret and or missile bay at a time. Take a look at blood collectors... once you have killed one, you have killed them all, they all use the same loadout, and use the same exact tactics. Lets say you run into an NPC thorax... Is it going to be outfitted with 5 decently powered turrrets Drones to fit the 2000 drone space? shield boosters and low item slots? No... Not likely. Instead you will face 2 thorax cruisers and a slew of Tristans flying escort. If those ships where PC's with even a half full loadout, your Moa would go boom very quickly... So CCP should make the challenges more realistic and balanced period. Look at NWN Encounter systems. Based on your characters levels ETC it will spawn more or less enemies, of higher or lower levels based on your Challenge rating. CCP could use a far similar system, especialy since I have a feeling that the way they initialy balanced ship fittings used a point buy system durring design phases. For example cruisers have maybe 1,000 points, each 50 units of drone space costing like 10 points maybe, each high slot costing 200 and so on. Naturaly some areas should be easier than others also... a .8 system shouldn't ever be filled with NPC pirate cruisers... Player pirates should be discouraged from killing NPC pirates. But until CCP makes it so Player pirates have to live in the wildlands, or Pirate controlled regions of space, they can kill whoever and whatever they want with impunity... Yeah that makes sense :/ As someone else said, the Economy is unresponsive to player actions, both short and long term. I'm not sure how CCP could easily track the effects of M0o's blockade on that area with game mechanics ETC. But surely they could role play this using thier GM powers. Raise the prices in the area, ETC. Trade routes as someone mentioned should have a time limit and if the supplies arn't delivered in a reasonable amount of time to fill the demand, something should occur in those places where the demand isn't reasonably met. For example if a station on the fringes needs 5K units of oxygen, if they don't get it nothing happens, life goes on. But in a more realistic system If the station doesn't get at least 3K Oxygen within a week, the demand should skyrocket for a very brief time, showing the desperation of the people living there to survive. If the xygen isn't delivered the demand will fall to near zero for a time to represent the death or exodus of citizens living and working there. Other services should also fail! What is to prevent griefers from seeding the market buy holding off on supplying the oxygen to raise the demand and price? Make it so that the demand will fluctuate as will the price in such a way that it will be hard to tell when the price will be good. Have the price raise steadily over time as well. At some point some newbish person will see what to them will be a nice price. but for a higher level character might be chump change. Thus the newb will try to fill the demand, lowering the price. Now if someone wants to blockade the border to keep the prices nice and high then one of two things will happen. They succeed in the blockade and make off like bandits (realistic), or Concord will arrive when the situation reaches a critical level to break the blockade and bring in humanitarian services resetting the demands (also realistic). These simple dynamics will give both lower end players, and higher end players a lot more interaction with the environment meaning more content, and more player created content. CCP needs to simply find the right balance between player influences that are exploitative and yet freeform enough to allow the game world to act alive. Not saying it's easy, but it CAN be done, and SHOULD be done, for EVE to fulfill it's grand designs... If CCP can do that, EVE WILL be exactly the kind of game we all know it can be. The best part is all of the tools exist in the game for them to do the kinds of things I am suggesting. The question is, will CCP give a similar concept a chance considering the other problems already on thier plate as it is? It is after all much easier to pander to the Power gamers than the intelectuals who look for imersion and dynamic experiences... Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit. |
 Demangel Gallente |
Posted - 2003.06.27 21:41:00 -
[90] Is it really impossible to be fair to someone who has a valid point? Even if he did realise it from a bad angle? NPC pirates eed to be harder, but not by giving them exploitative super missiles, and speeds... Look at the NPC ships your fighting for a second. In an Atron I was capable of atomizing 6 NPC atrons, even when they DID have the exploited movement speeds. Why? I could mount two turrets a handful of defensive medium modules, and low slot modules. Well I can't speak for low or medium slot equipment, but I KNOW that NPC's never carry or at least never SHOOT more than one turret and or missile bay at a time. Take a look at blood collectors... once you have killed one, you have killed them all, they all use the same loadout, and use the same exact tactics. Lets say you run into an NPC thorax... Is it going to be outfitted with 5 decently powered turrrets Drones to fit the 2000 drone space? shield boosters and low item slots? No... Not likely. Instead you will face 2 thorax cruisers and a slew of Tristans flying escort. If those ships where PC's with even a half full loadout, your Moa would go boom very quickly... So CCP should make the challenges more realistic and balanced period. Look at NWN Encounter systems. Based on your characters levels ETC it will spawn more or less enemies, of higher or lower levels based on your Challenge rating. CCP could use a far similar system, especialy since I have a feeling that the way they initialy balanced ship fittings used a point buy system durring design phases. For example cruisers have maybe 1,000 points, each 50 units of drone space costing like 10 points maybe, each high slot costing 200 and so on. Naturaly some areas should be easier than others also... a .8 system shouldn't ever be filled with NPC pirate cruisers... Player pirates should be discouraged from killing NPC pirates. But until CCP makes it so Player pirates have to live in the wildlands, or Pirate controlled regions of space, they can kill whoever and whatever they want with impunity... Yeah that makes sense :/ As someone else said, the Economy is unresponsive to player actions, both short and long term. I'm not sure how CCP could easily track the effects of M0o's blockade on that area with game mechanics ETC. But surely they could role play this using thier GM powers. Raise the prices in the area, ETC. Trade routes as someone mentioned should have a time limit and if the supplies arn't delivered in a reasonable amount of time to fill the demand, something should occur in those places where the demand isn't reasonably met. For example if a station on the fringes needs 5K units of oxygen, if they don't get it nothing happens, life goes on. But in a more realistic system If the station doesn't get at least 3K Oxygen within a week, the demand should skyrocket for a very brief time, showing the desperation of the people living there to survive. If the xygen isn't delivered the demand will fall to near zero for a time to represent the death or exodus of citizens living and working there. Other services should also fail! What is to prevent griefers from seeding the market buy holding off on supplying the oxygen to raise the demand and price? Make it so that the demand will fluctuate as will the price in such a way that it will be hard to tell when the price will be good. Have the price raise steadily over time as well. At some point some newbish person will see what to them will be a nice price. but for a higher level character might be chump change. Thus the newb will try to fill the demand, lowering the price. Now if someone wants to blockade the border to keep the prices nice and high then one of two things will happen. They succeed in the blockade and make off like bandits (realistic), or Concord will arrive when the situation reaches a critical level to break the blockade and bring in humanitarian services resetting the demands (also realistic). These simple dynamics will give both lower end players, and higher end players a lot more interaction with the environment meaning more content, and more player created content. CCP needs to simply find the right balance between player influences that are exploitative and yet freeform enough to allow the game world to act alive. Not saying it's easy, but it CAN be done, and SHOULD be done, for EVE to fulfill it's grand designs... If CCP can do that, EVE WILL be exactly the kind of game we all know it can be. The best part is all of the tools exist in the game for them to do the kinds of things I am suggesting. The question is, will CCP give a similar concept a chance considering the other problems already on thier plate as it is? It is after all much easier to pander to the Power gamers than the intelectuals who look for imersion and dynamic experiences... Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit. |
Lysithea |
Posted - 2003.06.27 22:22:00 -
[91] It's all good... I'm sure everything wil be balanced when we get out of beta. Oooops... did I just say that out load? |
 Lysithea Playboy Enterprises |
Posted - 2003.06.27 22:22:00 -
[92] It's all good... I'm sure everything wil be balanced when we get out of beta. Oooops... did I just say that out load? |
Hannibal L |
Posted - 2003.06.27 22:53:00 -
[93] Ya know that is a great idea, I am gonna go into, .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 1.0 sec systems now and start killing afk indy miners, cops have no bearing on my bship now, toss a shield booster they barely get through that. Hmm what an idea, Man some people are gonna be hurting to night :) Well Well Well You really are a pathetic little specimen arn't you ? I bet you were the fat kid in the playground that no one wanted to associate with and now find that this game gives you the opportunity to do to others what was once done to you . I bet your father used to spank your bare butt for soiling your Walmart underwear and starve you in an effort to relieve the stress on the bathroom scales . Eve Citizens I give you "Ywev" A sociopathic outcast that has difficulty maintaining lasting relationships with the denziens of the real world and preferes to exist in the twilight and innominate setting of online computer game communities . He has no real agenda other than to engross himself in the art of self gratification and alienation of all that he comes into contact with . This character is probably in late teens , early twenties , married the first sow he could find that enjoyed staring at the ceiling , buys his clothes at the charity shops to save the real cash for online subscriptions to eve and members only access to easypic.com . You will find him 20 Hours aday sitting in a dimly lit basement , its only light being the dim glow from his twin 21 inch monitors , thats right i said 2 , 1 for playing EVE and the other for trawling the soft underbelly of the internet looking for disgusting jpgs of humanities debauchery . He will be dressed in his old whinnie the pooh pajamas and will have a cigarette perpetually hanging from the corner of his mouth . He wears his Bcom headphones and mike as his only Jewellery and will occassionally be heard to yell < come on J0rt you a$$wipe there arnt nearly enough containers near this gate , get to work !!! > . Unfortunately god gave him the ability to reproduce himself , and unfortunately there is always someone for everyone. How I`d love to slice out your eyeballs and fry them in Butter Your faithfully H.Lecter (OOC to be honest I have never met you or your corp online , the above is intended as roleplay just incase someone takes offence to its content ) Edited by: Hannibal L on 27/06/2003 22:58:46 |
 Hannibal L Caldari |
Posted - 2003.06.27 22:53:00 -
[94] Ya know that is a great idea, I am gonna go into, .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 1.0 sec systems now and start killing afk indy miners, cops have no bearing on my bship now, toss a shield booster they barely get through that. Hmm what an idea, Man some people are gonna be hurting to night :) Well Well Well You really are a pathetic little specimen arn't you ? I bet you were the fat kid in the playground that no one wanted to associate with and now find that this game gives you the opportunity to do to others what was once done to you . I bet your father used to spank your bare butt for soiling your Walmart underwear and starve you in an effort to relieve the stress on the bathroom scales . Eve Citizens I give you "Ywev" A sociopathic outcast that has difficulty maintaining lasting relationships with the denziens of the real world and preferes to exist in the twilight and innominate setting of online computer game communities . He has no real agenda other than to engross himself in the art of self gratification and alienation of all that he comes into contact with . This character is probably in late teens , early twenties , married the first sow he could find that enjoyed staring at the ceiling , buys his clothes at the charity shops to save the real cash for online subscriptions to eve and members only access to easypic.com . You will find him 20 Hours aday sitting in a dimly lit basement , its only light being the dim glow from his twin 21 inch monitors , thats right i said 2 , 1 for playing EVE and the other for trawling the soft underbelly of the internet looking for disgusting jpgs of humanities debauchery . He will be dressed in his old whinnie the pooh pajamas and will have a cigarette perpetually hanging from the corner of his mouth . He wears his Bcom headphones and mike as his only Jewellery and will occassionally be heard to yell < come on J0rt you a$$wipe there arnt nearly enough containers near this gate , get to work !!! > . Unfortunately god gave him the ability to reproduce himself , and unfortunately there is always someone for everyone. How I`d love to slice out your eyeballs and fry them in Butter Your faithfully H.Lecter (OOC to be honest I have never met you or your corp online , the above is intended as roleplay just incase someone takes offence to its content ) Edited by: Hannibal L on 27/06/2003 22:58:46 |
Mr Kipper |
Posted - 2003.06.28 11:18:00 -
[95] I completely agree with Krait, NPC reactions should be what create stories and interest for players. If i spank 1000 angle pirates then go pootling around in a 0 system with an NPC angle pirate base they should send people after me. Same with police forces they should actively hunt out enemies of themselves. Not just sit like dumb cattle waiting for some one to shoot at them or another PC. Is like ***** Bin laden holidaying in USA but claiming "no you cant capture me i havent shot anyone...yet" its *******s at the minute, as this is exactly the situation that EVE is in. I could be caldari/minmatar/whatever, public enemy number one and happily dock with therer stations and even pick up a new ship there if their police forces kill me, heheh what a joke. |
Mr Kipper |
Posted - 2003.06.28 11:18:00 -
[96] I completely agree with Krait, NPC reactions should be what create stories and interest for players. If i spank 1000 angle pirates then go pootling around in a 0 system with an NPC angle pirate base they should send people after me. Same with police forces they should actively hunt out enemies of themselves. Not just sit like dumb cattle waiting for some one to shoot at them or another PC. Is like ***** Bin laden holidaying in USA but claiming "no you cant capture me i havent shot anyone...yet" its *******s at the minute, as this is exactly the situation that EVE is in. I could be caldari/minmatar/whatever, public enemy number one and happily dock with therer stations and even pick up a new ship there if their police forces kill me, heheh what a joke. |
Outof Mysights |
Posted - 2003.06.28 14:27:00 -
[97] Perhaps m0o need to take their immense power and just clean up Serpen't Coil? Perhaps jump to Jovian space and whack a few of them? But, no, that wouldn't be as easy as ruining the game for other players. On a related note, my recently started Progress Quest character (a demicanadian fighter/organist) is at level 2 and just learned the Aqueus Humour spell. |
 Outof Mysights Caldari |
Posted - 2003.06.28 14:27:00 -
[98] Perhaps m0o need to take their immense power and just clean up Serpen't Coil? Perhaps jump to Jovian space and whack a few of them? But, no, that wouldn't be as easy as ruining the game for other players. On a related note, my recently started Progress Quest character (a demicanadian fighter/organist) is at level 2 and just learned the Aqueus Humour spell. |
klaartu |
Posted - 2003.06.29 02:33:00 -
[99] Qoute: -------------------------------------- I have looked in dozens of regions, planets, moons, asteroid belts, I have yet to find something that even remotley challenges my battleships -------------------------------------- Ywev. Well, I guess you got your challenge and lost your Battleships against Rus Corp. Edited by: klaartu on 29/06/2003 02:43:13 |
 klaartu |
Posted - 2003.06.29 02:33:00 -
[100] Qoute: -------------------------------------- I have looked in dozens of regions, planets, moons, asteroid belts, I have yet to find something that even remotley challenges my battleships -------------------------------------- Ywev. Well, I guess you got your challenge and lost your Battleships against Rus Corp. Edited by: klaartu on 29/06/2003 02:43:13 |
zorlo |
Posted - 2003.06.29 02:38:00 -
[101] LOL Klaartu, M0o have met their match. |
 zorlo Gallente |
Posted - 2003.06.29 02:38:00 -
[102] LOL Klaartu, M0o have met their match. |
StoreSlem |
Posted - 2003.06.29 02:49:00 -
[103] ahahahhaha seems it came for you ywev. |
 StoreSlem Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2003.06.29 02:49:00 -
[104] ahahahhaha seems it came for you ywev. "If you were experiencing a lag, it was not server related." |
Faramir |
Posted - 2003.06.29 03:04:00 -
[105] Always asking for a fight.... When ppl take the time to fight them... THEY RUN So m0o... plz... stop whining |
 Faramir. Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2003.06.29 03:04:00 -
[106] Always asking for a fight.... When ppl take the time to fight them... THEY RUN So m0o... plz... stop whining |
 Heathens |
Posted - 2007.05.25 21:40:00 -
[107] Edited by: Heathens on 25/05/2007 21:39:44 Hey guys this is a great thread. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=375702 http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html |
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