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baltec1
Bat Country
1628
   |
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:23:00 -
[61] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:
That would be why you like it. The UI is good for macro level management. But for frequent smaller takes it's a PITA.
Dont have any issue with it while mining or salvaging or setting up pvp ship or shipping goods around space. |
WonkySplitDemon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:24:00 -
[62] - Quote
adam smash wrote:the UI sucks... Notice how everyone who likes it aint been in the game long enough to know wtf they are doing? lol
I don't necessarily think that is true. Just from reading replies on this thread it seems that alot of the people that like (notice the bold underlined LIKE) the new system are those that are running large scale production/manufacturing operations (macro level) and certainly the majority of these peeps aren't newbies.
When I say Like, I mean actually prefer the new system to the old. |
WonkySplitDemon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:25:00 -
[63] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:
That would be why you like it. The UI is good for macro level management. But for frequent smaller takes it's a PITA.
Dont have any issue with it while mining or salvaging or setting up pvp ship or shipping goods around space.
You say you "Don't have any issue with it"
Does that mean you prefer it to the old system? Just curious. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8512
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:26:00 -
[64] - Quote
Otrebla Utrigas wrote:Seriously guys, don't you know how to manage tree inventories? It is faster, cleaner and way more optimal than lots and lots of windows with click and drag. Actually, no. That's why tree views are going out of fashion in favour of one or more of GÇ£pile of stuff + searchGÇ¥, tagging, context-sensitive selection, layers + breadcrumbs, multi-views and so on. Tree structures were hip and modern back in 1986 when DOS 4.0 was released. Now, 26 years later, we have far better abstractions of nested containers (and nested containers isn't particularly a problem, nor is it something the inventory system really supports so it's not the correct abstraction anyway).
The UI tries to solve something that never was a problem, and it's doing so by adopting a vastly outdated visual language that has long since been shown to be both rather ineffective and completely unrelated to the problem they're trying to solve. In addition, the actual problem they are saying they want to solve has nothing to do with the inventory window(s), but rather with the asset and S&I windows GÇö windows that the new UI doesn't include or support.
Beyond applying the wrong solution to the wrong problem in order to solve absolutely nothing, the new UI also does something horribly stupid: it tries to GÇ£unifyGÇ¥ a category of information displays that are inherently and purposefully different. It's a bit like sticking apples, peppers, and detergent in the same hamper because they're all green and ignoring the fact that people allergic to one are now unable to buy the other, and that the detergent have made both inedible and has seeped through the gaps and made the floor slippery. It has drastically reduced the ability to customise your displays; it has increased screen bloat (thus reducing the space available for displaying items GÇö you know, the thing that is its primary purpose); it has added pointless time-wasting in the form of loading delays and animations; and it has completely disassociated the category of information display with the window it's being displayed in; it has completely lost any context sensitivity of the information being displayed and any memory of any such context. With effort (far more than in the old system), it can be set up to retain some form of structure, but this setup is insanely brittle and will be forgotten at a drop of a hat and requiring more effort to rebuild, unlike the old system where such setups and memorising them was inherently supported. Oh, and as an added bonus, it's not making use of the customisation functionality offered by the other parts of UI (which was, in fact, the main selling point of that UI) and has instead removed options that let you get to your stuff faster.
It's so fundamentally flawed a design concept that they've already been forced to resort to mind-bogglingly ugly hacks such as trying to define GÇ£primaryGÇ¥ and GÇ£secondaryGÇ¥ windows that are supposed to act differently (in and of itself an abject failure of UI design) GÇö something that usually tends to happen at the far end of a system's life cycle, when so many special edge cases have been added through the years that need to be contained and there is no way for the system to accommodate them all. The problem is that this is happening weeks after release to support basic functionality, rather than many years down the road to support funny eccentricities.
WonkySplitDemon wrote:I can see from a macro level perspective moving large amounts of items around and doing large scale operations such as manufacturing why the new system would be easier to use than the old "Windows Everywhere TM" one, for sure. No, those larger operation is where it really breaks down, because you want multiple windows to do that effectively anywayGǪ and it's more work to do that with the new system than the old one. In addition, the old system was never really GÇ£windows everywhereGÇ¥ GÇö you could already unify it if you chose to and have pretty much the same kind of setup as the new UI offers (except the old one was more compact). The opposite is not true, though.
That, alone, should have been a warning sign to the devs: you could emulate the new system in the old one; you couldn't emulate the old system in the new one.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
801
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:27:00 -
[65] - Quote
adam smash wrote:the UI sucks... Notice how everyone who likes it aint been in the game long enough to know wtf they are doing? lol
Your eloquent contribution to this discourse is no surprise here.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
631
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:27:00 -
[66] - Quote
Ashera Yune wrote:
Those who say its great knows nothing until they try flying an orca or a pos.
Grath Telkin wrote:I fly a titan in a fleet of titans often times starting in a POS, the inventory is better than fine, its great
baltec1 wrote:
The new UI has made everything I do much simpler and quicker. I do large scale POS research and manufacturing along with some mining.
Mr Kidd wrote:
Sure it works for you because of macro pos work but....
Just about the gist of this thread so far.
Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
baltec1
Bat Country
1628
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:28:00 -
[67] - Quote
WonkySplitDemon wrote:
You say you "Don't have any issue with it"
Does that mean you prefer it to the old system? Just curious.
Yes as it is quicker to use. |
BearJews
Reroute .to. Remain
47
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP is really good at tear generation. Come on guys, it aint bad. This thread is just a couple of women venting over their pixel world problems.
Adapt, Adjust. it's not the greatest, but it's not the end of the world. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8512
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:31:00 -
[69] - Quote
BearJews wrote:CCP is really good at tear generation. Come on guys, it aint bad. This thread is just a couple of women venting over their pixel world problems.
Adapt, Adjust. it's not the greatest, but it's not the end of the world. it is that bad. And while it's not the end of the world, the problem is that not only is it not the greatest, but it's a deterioration and loss of functionality. That is bad design and bad programming.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
WonkySplitDemon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:32:00 -
[70] - Quote
BearJews wrote:CCP is really good at tear generation. Come on guys, it aint bad. This thread is just a couple of women venting over their pixel world problems.
Adapt, Adjust. it's not the greatest, but it's not the end of the world.
I have adjusted and adapted. I can use the UI fine, just think the old one was better.
Isn't that what a forum is for? People expressing their opinions? |
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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
124
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
The inventory did get better for me, especially with the ships/items in station windows remaining where they are placed (using shift + left click to open them). However, the main inventory window seems more user-friendly on bigger screens.
When I am docked, using it on 80% of my screen is great... I only need to deal with the fact I can't have my fitting window and the unified inventory overlap.
What makes it usable now is that some key windows can be permanently opened/adjusted once you single-open them with shift+left click (Good) but others still have to be opened through the main inventory system (Bad). On smaller screens (I use 1440 x 900) you are facing the problem of either having the UI cover most of your screen or having to scroll down a list that shows only 6 items per page.
I decided to use the smallest window option because I can't afford to have it pop up over most of my screen when time is of the essence (grabbing loot from wrecks, especially during PVP) |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
711
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:40:00 -
[72] - Quote
WonkySplitDemon wrote:BearJews wrote:CCP is really good at tear generation. Come on guys, it aint bad. This thread is just a couple of women venting over their pixel world problems.
Adapt, Adjust. it's not the greatest, but it's not the end of the world. I have adjusted and adapted. I can use the UI fine, just think the old one was better. Isn't that what a forum is for? People expressing their opinions?
Yeah, but just be sure that you've adjusted and adapted and not adjusted and coped. There is a difference. Many of us are coping with a **** poor UI in our opinions.
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
WonkySplitDemon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:44:00 -
[73] - Quote
I think you may have misunderstood, I too think the new UI is poor. But it IS useable and not a game breaker for me. |
Hal IV
Massively Dynamic
The Jagged Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 20:57:00 -
[74] - Quote
When flying in space I would really like for the cargohold icon or alt-c to JUST open the cargohold window and not the whole blasted thing. So annoying! |
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club
Transmission Lost
36
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 00:17:00 -
[75] - Quote
Its an annoying and more time-consuming in my option. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old system.
Here is one example:
"Opening a corporation hangar.
Before UI:
Click a button in the station screen.
Click the division you want to see.
Done
After UI:
Open your cargohold (or any other inventory, completely unrelated to the corp hangar).
Wait for the contents to load.
Roll out the tree view.
Wait for the rollout animation. (Before you call me for nitpicking: this animation takes about a second, and the window is unresponsive during it. A second you say? Well, the whole process took less than this with the old inventory.)
Scroll down to the corporation hangar.
Click the corporation hangar label to expand the list of divisions.
Wait for the expanding animation.
Click the division you want to see.
Done"
Its clear which system was faster.
It takes longer to fit a ship with the new inventory.
Opening ship hangar at station:
Old:
Press ship hangar button
Done
New:
Open inventory
Wait for entire inventory to load
Navigate through list of crap to find ship hangar
Select Ship hangar(press shift tab to make a new window)
Done
I don't want to have to shift click on something just to open a new window, when the old system required me to just click once and have the window pop up.
If you forget to shift click, everything changes and you lose the window that you previously had. Then you have to go back and get to where you wanted.
The old system was much better before you can could anywhere you wanted just by a click or two, but now you have to navigate through the item window and wait for other things to load up, then shift click.
The New system has more drudgery and more clicking to get to where you want. |
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
240
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 07:01:00 -
[76] - Quote
I got this feeling that the devs have been inspired by command line terminals.
pwd
/universe-1/j123456/pos-1/cha-2/hangar-ammo/
EGD: If you jettison what's in your brain, at least expect can flipping. |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
1189
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 07:39:00 -
[77] - Quote
I've adjusted and adapted very well.
-Mining isn't any worse or better for me.
-For living at POSes this is a god-send for me; I can see all the POS categories I do or don't want and only opens the ones I do :D. My window stays the same size no matter what I open but if I'm doing lots of management of items then I can make it bigger for the occasion and then snap it back into place when I'm done. Need more then just "Generic POS hanger" and cargo? Shift click it, move stuff, close it. It's like pulling a file from a cabinet.
-I prefer the tree to the context menu when using my carrier's bays.
-Looting wrecks in succession has been restored to previous functionality; I can do it the same way i always have: open them all at once and then spam loot all (and I even have wrecks and my cargo successfully separated fro this entire process with no extra steps).
-In space my cargo and the "main inventory" window stay open...dunno what the problem is here....
-In station my ships and items hangers are separated and maintain their position and open state when docking, undocking and logging in and out.
-Organization of cans in station has gotten nicer.
-No one has mentioned filters, these things as awesome. I filter out my cans so i don't accidentally repack them resulting in loot vomit. Instead of just sorting by meta level I can FILTER by it. Hell, I even have my ships filtered based on a name tag i put on them so I can see my active set easy. If i wanted i could make a "mining fleet" filter that only shows barges and indies or something. Or what about a "shiny" filter that only shows faction and T2 ships? :P
The Drake is a Lie |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
1189
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 07:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Hal IV wrote:When flying in space I would really like for the cargohold icon or alt-c to JUST open the cargohold window and not the whole blasted thing. So annoying!
Remap it.
My Main Inventory is now Alt + I (i never really use Sci & indy window much anyway)
My Current ship cargo is Alt + C
Ships and items are Alt N and G iirc (I haven't had to use these in a while so I could be wrong, as my other post mentioned i never close these so I rarely need to reopen them via hotkey).
The Drake is a Lie |
pussnheels
456
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 08:19:00 -
[79] - Quote
Absolute bubkes, like always whinning and moaning about CCP and how CCP has nerfed the game beyond repair even if CCP would changes the color of their logo you probably be out there at the front whinning and moaning how this nerf will kill the game , and worse is, you think you are the only one who is riht and all others are wrong If you can think you can do a better job why don't you apply for a job with them or start your own MMO lets see how far you get no need to reply i just ignnore it
about the unified inv i like it , it is easy to use if you take a few minutes to learn what it can and con not do but if people don't even bother to do that whos fault is that not CCP
Some of you people remind me of some of the older people at my office , moaning and whinning over every change and modernization , lamenting about how better it was when they started working there without realizing that they actually better of now than 30 years ago
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
249
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 08:57:00 -
[80] - Quote
SeaBassSA wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:I can't help it if CCP sticks a turd on a stick telling you it's a new and awesome feature. Some of us are a bit more discerning. Some of us can adapt to change and not get all butt-hurt over little things.
I just guess after a while you eat enough turds you begin to like the taste of them?
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8513
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 09:18:00 -
[81] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:Absolute bubkes Really? Why?
Quote:Some of you people remind me of some of the older people at my office , moaning and whinning over every change and modernization The problem is that this isn't a modernisation GÇö it's just more flash and less functionality. You remind me of those people who think change is good. It isn't. Good change is good; bad change is bad. This leans more towards the latter due to the loss of customisation, loss of performance, and complete misapplication of an already outdated visual language.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
346
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 09:43:00 -
[82] - Quote
Thorn Galen wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:Sed it before and i will say it again in regards to the hold shift button window thing:
add a toggle in the menu that flips the hold shift function, so that eve assumes shift is always pressed when clicking on bays cargo's and ships hangers Actually, that would be a very desirable feature to the new UI which I have come to love. Have you suggested this in the ideas forum? It really is a good thing and I imagine not difficult to implement.
I put this in the very first big thread about this crappy new interface.
I could make a thread to be ignored in features and ideas i suppose, anyone agree with me?
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Yogsoloth
Percussive Diplomacy
PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
85
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 12:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ashera Yune wrote:The unified inventory is annoying. It is obstructive, unintuitive, and more time consuming to use.
The unified window is especially an annoyance when you deal with poses, corp hangars, and ships with fuel bay, ship main bay, corp hangar, etc like I do.
Those who say its great knows nothing until they try flying an orca or a pos.
Accept crap like this and you will meet your downfall.
All game will diaf become players begin to accept crap that is given to them as a "feature".
We must kill the roots, reject it and destroy it, before it grows to become a big problem.
The entire system is just soo horrible it's beyond explanation. Mazes of menues, extra clicking, less screen real estate, loss of right click functionality, mouse over annoyance etc etc etc. It just goes on and on and on...
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Signal11th
610
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 13:09:00 -
[84] - Quote
I'm used to it now but it's so much more hassle to do anything in it than the old method.
Unfortunately change isn't always good.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
WonkySplitDemon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 13:19:00 -
[85] - Quote
Also, am I being ******** or why can't you sell items that are inside station containers? Iv'e got salvage all sorted in station containers and every time I want to sell something I have to drag it all back to the main item hanger to do so? Really annoying.
If I'm missing something glaringly obvious could someone please enlighten me?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8516
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 13:23:00 -
[86] - Quote
WonkySplitDemon wrote:Also, am I being ******** or why can't you sell items that are inside station containers? Because the unified inventory isn't actually unifiedGǪ
They still have to be in your hangar to be sold.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
WonkySplitDemon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 13:32:00 -
[87] - Quote
Tippia wrote:WonkySplitDemon wrote:Also, am I being ******** or why can't you sell items that are inside station containers? Because the unified inventory isn't actually unifiedGǪ They still have to be in your hangar to be sold.
Well that is just stupid. |
Signal11th
611
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 13:33:00 -
[88] - Quote
WonkySplitDemon wrote:Tippia wrote:WonkySplitDemon wrote:Also, am I being ******** or why can't you sell items that are inside station containers? Because the unified inventory isn't actually unifiedGǪ They still have to be in your hangar to be sold. Well that is just stupid.
This is CCP you're talking about...
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
marVLs
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 13:36:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ok i have enough of Your's stupid grumbling. New inventory is better, it needs some little tweaks but it's fu...ng better
If You can't work with it that means You doing something wrong or You are just d.u.m.b... sorry but it's true, EVE is not game for people's with potato IQ, and only potato can't manage with new inv 
Here's some clue for You kids:
http://scr.hu/4s/vl2t0 - fit perfect
http://scr.hu/4s/frtes - oh hey it's magic
Sry for my bad eng |
WonkySplitDemon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 13:46:00 -
[90] - Quote
dude those screens are hideous! OWWWWW my eyes.
Anyway I don't understand what relevance they have to the discussion? Some pretty pics of a harbinger in space with a hideous colorscheme....... please elaborate... |
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