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An idea for blasters: MWD blink ability

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Sydian Rie Minmatar Black Aces AAA Citizens	Posted - 2010.05.20 15:32:00 - [31] Edited by: Sydian Rie on 20/05/2010 15:33:31 Sounds like a good idea. There are a lot of items in the game that don't have a decent counter ie: ECM, bombs, DD. I don't see a problem with a MWD being able to blink when we can already cyno instantly and flood the field with caps. This is an awesome idea with plenty of counters to balance it especially if it has a hefty cooldown, which prohibits the use the regular MWD.
Camios Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe	Posted - 2010.05.20 17:27:00 - [32] Edited by: Camios on 20/05/2010 17:32:11 Originally by: Makar Kravchenko I think there is too many scenarios where a mechanic like this could be abused. But it is a cool idea. What if blink nearly drains your cap? Like a jump drive does. It would have to work around the same mechanics of warping, so if you are in a bubble or outside of a bubble you can not warp out of, or into the bubble. a 20km blink from the edge of a HIC bubble would put you 0km on a lot of gates. Also, the ranges you are suggesting are WAY WAY too far. Max BS blink, 10km. Max battlecruiser/cruiser blink, 5km. Max Frigate blink, 2.5km. Microwarpdrive should be usable immediately after. Blink should be charges. You can only do it if you have a blink charge in the cargo hold. To setup the mwd to blink, you load the charge. When you blink, it is consumed. 10 second loading time, not instant switch like scripts. 2 cents. You are right about many things, for example the ranges I suggested can look too long, and the ability to blink into a bubble from outside can be used to reach the gate from outisde a bubble in a gatecamp. It's useful to consider that the blasterships like thorax, deimos, megathron, kronos, vigilant, daredevil, vindicator could have their bonus changed in order to increase the efficiency of these ships, so that it is not effective on other kind of ships. For example, the MWD cap reduction bonus can be changed in favor of a longer blink range. I would prefer a longer blink range than the one you propose, but without the possibility to use mwd immediately after the blink.
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.05.20 18:41:00 - [33] This is a horrible idea, even tho it sounds cool. It will wreck total havoc on EVE PvP. Battleships will be faster than interceptors Unbubbled gate camps will be completely pointless, as decloaking ship will just blink 20-40 km away from the gate and cloak - good luck guessing his position. Or blink 20+ km from scramble range and warp off before campers have time to approach. Or blink to the gate and jump out - all in 1 second before anyone has time to lock. I'm sure very unexpected bumping strategies will develop. Predictability of battle flow will decrease, due to random jump ability. It would make medium to large sized engagements look very weird. Value of planning goes down as randomness increases. And I'm sure there will be quite a few unexpected consequences, which will cause a lot of headaches. Like, supercaps can fit MWDs too. Despite the fact that CCP employs mentally challenged game designers with various mental disorders (damage phobia), I don't think even they would be crazy enough to go for this idea.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.20 20:41:00 - [34] Originally by: Ephemeron This is a horrible idea, even tho it sounds cool. It will wreck total havoc on EVE PvP. This. It breaks so much stuff, only a clueless noob could seriously propose this tbfh. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Camios Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe	Posted - 2010.05.22 00:56:00 - [35] Edited by: Camios on 22/05/2010 01:06:18 Hi doomsayers, it's simpler: it just depends on how it is implemented. Period. Clever implementation -> good balance. Bad implementation -> broken game. It's so simple. And yes, noobs will definitely ruin your game, sorry.
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.05.22 01:10:00 - [36] Originally by: Camios Edited by: Camios on 22/05/2010 01:06:18 Hi doomsayers, it's simpler: it just depends on how it is implemented. Period. Clever implementation -> good balance. Bad implementation -> broken game. It's so simple. And yes, noobs will definitely ruin your game, sorry. I think you should apply for CCP job, they like hiring people like you.
Manfred Rickenbocker	Posted - 2010.05.22 18:26:00 - [37] As much as I love this idea (enjoying blasterships myself), this proposes serious issues. Some possible counterbalances to this: 1) Ship doesnt insta-blink when module is turned on. Ship will blink 15 - 30 seconds after it is activated. 2) Long cycle time of around 5 minutes or so would prevent several blinkings. 3) While module is active, sig radius is huge, same as the current implementation of the MWD, but probably 2x. 4) Module damage or fuel requirements prevent abuse. Make it use 800 cap boosters or stront (because its heavy) or make the module damage itself by around 75% and needs to be repaired before using again. Blasterships have a LOT of problems, and while range is a large part, tracking/dps/agility/eHP also play their parts. Interesting point: this could make small gangs or anti-sniper strike teams of small ships potentially useful. Kiting is a really horrible mechanic but that also requires a fix to the tracking formula. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
Zorok LEGI0N SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2010.05.22 18:44:00 - [38] As I rely heavily on blasters too, I can see this proposal being good if implemented properly. I think some of you might like the following idea... Have a 5-10sec spin-up timer and during that time, some type of effect on the targeted blink ship/entity will appear giving the ship time to take evasive maneuvers (ex: prepare for warp). Maybe add some cool purple nos-looking effect on the ship that will be "blinked" to. Of course, using such a device would eat up more cap depending on the distance to the target. Closer targets would require less cap. The jump skill could also be used to help offset the drain but only marginally.
Torpir Lee Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.05.22 18:56:00 - [39] Overpowered.
Zorok LEGI0N SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2010.05.23 16:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Torpir Lee Overpowered. I don't believe it to be overpowered if done correctly. Just because a ship is able to "blink" to your location doesn't mean that it will be able to do much in that short time to prevent you from getting away again. A fast ship will simply be able, through inertia, to break free of any webs and as he said if the ship becomes scrambled, its blink ability becomes nullified as well as cap and spin-up times as I had proposed earlier. I hate how people just shut ideas down because they would rather allow inequities to exist to exploit the game mechanics. In conclusion what you mean to say is that you are such a poor pilot that you can't compensate for such an effect because you must fly slow ships with no tanking abilities. Hey if you fly an ammarr ship, you'll most likely be safe because I doubt CCP would allow this blink effect to even be possible at distances of over 100km. I fly a Domi that I use for sniping but should any ship close the distance, I'm ready for battle.

Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.23 18:11:00 - [41] Originally by: Zorok I don't believe it to be overpowered if done correctly. The reason you think it wouldn't be overpowered is because: Originally by: Zorok In conclusion what you mean to say is that you are such a poor pilot that you can't compensate for such an effect because you must fly slow ships with no tanking abilities. Hey if you fly an ammarr ship, you'll most likely be safe because I doubt CCP would allow this blink effect to even be possible at distances of over 100km. I fly a Domi that I use for sniping but should any ship close the distance, I'm ready for battle. You are clueless and incompetent! Thank you for illustrating that yourself so aptly. The ramifications of such a idiotic change are extreme. Given such blink option would also leave you with lock retained you can instantly scramble and web a target and it's not moving. Haven't you heard that scramblers stop MWD instantly? What it does is effectively kill any attempt of speed/etc tanking (because people just teleport on top of you, scramble, web, byebye speed), you have practically removed speed and agility as a important factor and turned every fight into a gank&spank pointblank slugfest. This is particularly true once you have engagements with asymmetric numbers since pointed people cannot blink but unpointed people can blink, which means that the solution to all your problems is just bring more people and you're basically guaranteed to tackle anything at all. In short, this is one of the dumbest proposals I have ever heard in F&I and it's highly indicative that people supporting this have close to zero clue about PVP and a total of 200 kills between them. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Zorok LEGI0N SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2010.05.23 18:20:00 - [42] Edited by: Zorok on 23/05/2010 18:24:44 Edited by: Zorok on 23/05/2010 18:23:48 Originally by: Cpt Branko You are clueless and incompetent! Thank you for illustrating that yourself so aptly. The ramifications of such a idiotic change are extreme. Given such blink option would also leave you with lock retained you can instantly scramble and web a target and it's not moving. Haven't you heard that scramblers stop MWD instantly? You sir are also illiterate because you failed to read the detail of the spin up time, effect around target ship before blink occurs as well as the cap drain. If a speed tanked ship can't escape in 5-10 secs before the blink then you, my friend (a term which I use loosely here), are an incompetent pilot that deserves to be podded again and again. Why don't you read the details before opening the orifice which you substitute for a mouth. I would also like to note that this gentleman (used loosely again here), for the record doesn't even use blasters on his ships and has mainly killed blaster fitted ships which is why he's so enraged at the mere thought. Go troll someplace else...
Admiral Pelleon White Shadow Imperium	Posted - 2010.05.23 18:38:00 - [43] Horrible, horrible idea. Please stop this before someone in CCP actually takes this post seriously. ________ Chicago players channel: 'Windy City'
Zorok LEGI0N SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2010.05.23 18:41:00 - [44] And it's a horrible idea...why? With such other proposals to help balance it out, I for one will continue to support this idea since the blaster ships in the game do need some kind of help but nothing that will unbalance the game. I for one give this a thumbs up.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.23 20:10:00 - [45] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 23/05/2010 20:12:00 Originally by: Zorok for the record doesn't even use blasters on his ships and has mainly killed blaster fitted ships which is why he's so enraged at the mere thought. Cool story bro. You're clueless and incompetent enough that you can't even look at most often killed ships list on griefwatch, preety sad. It's so funny when you fail to read lossmails like that; most of them are actually platecanes, which largely fight blaster-style except they do it better then any medium blaster ship does. Anyway, this is not the blaster boost which you are looking for; it's merely a nerf to kiting, a nerf to range, a boost to blobbery, a boost to people too lazy to bring proper tackle and so on. Assuming such idiocy got adopted, except even CCP isn't that stupid, I would still never ever feel the urge to fly a medium-sized blasterboat in PVP anyway with whatever change to speed/agility because Minmatar medium sized AC ships do the blaster-style PVP better, even at blaster optimal and are more versatile to boot. A Brutix relies on ECMs or luck not to die to a frigate. A plated Hurricane (or HAM Drake) destroyes a Brutix at any range while not having that particular downside. Since you're so new and green at PVP I'll give you a short diagnosis and historical overview of blaster issues: The part where whenever I want to do close range PVP I still choose Minmatar (or Caldari in some cases, or Amarr in some cases) is the reason why blasters suck; they've been vulnerable to kiting forever, however back at the time the blasterboat was the top dog of closerange murder and versatile to boot because of 90% web this provided balance. In the meantime Amarr DPS got boosted, Amarr ships got boosted, Minmatar DPS got boosted, Caldari DPS got boosted at BS level, and then finally Gallente versatility got shafed with the QR web nerf putting the final nail in their coffin. Quote: I think some of you might like the following idea... Have a 5-10sec spin-up timer and during that time, some type of effect on the targeted blink ship/entity will appear giving the ship time to take evasive maneuvers (ex: prepare for warp). So it's warp out in 5-10 seconds or something lands on top of you, ok, yeah, really, that makes it so not overpowered. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.05.24 00:10:00 - [46] A fancy "warp to 0" module that works at ranges less then 150km filling a hole in the utility of the Extended Probe Launcher? With the draw back of course that it doesn't break target locks? But what ship class could be trusted with this insta-gank technology?
Camios Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe	Posted - 2010.05.24 09:53:00 - [47] Well, I did never say that I need an ability that let me blink for 500 lightyears on top of a target, scaring it at the point that he loses the 100% of its shield and 90% of its armor when I appear just for the frighten and then disables damage control, and anyway gives me the ability to blink away in w-space so that they can't even find me unless I wish. I just think that introducing another ability like this (with the right limitations and penalties) could help in balancing the game, giving blastership a trick that they deserve. If only those ship could get in range... The fact that AC ships play the blasterstyle better than blasterships may make you think about it.
SemiCharmed Clans of the Sanctums	Posted - 2010.05.24 12:40:00 - [48] Likes this thumbs up Get it done! -------------------------------------------- Remember Kids, Only YOU Can Prevent Fourm fires.
Torpir Lee Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.05.24 12:50:00 - [49] Originally by: Camios Edited by: Camios on 24/05/2010 10:00:37 Well, I did never say that I need an ability that let me blink for 500 lightyears on top of a target, scaring it at the point that he loses the 100% of its shield and 90% of its armor when I appear just for the frighten and then disables damage control, and anyway gives me the ability to blink away in w-space so that they can't even find me unless I wish. I just think that introducing another ability like this (with the right limitations and penalties) could help in balancing the game, giving blastership a trick that they deserve. If only those ship could get in range... The fact that AC ships play the blasterstyle better than blasterships may make you think about it. And for those who say "but we have MWDs already that do the thing you propose": The MWD can be run for minutes on BSs, BCs and cruisers, and every ship can fit one. Its operation is not so expensive, and it's useful to escape as it is for get closa range. So the people that say that MWD is enough to get in range, well, that's not true in most cases. Well if you pick fights at 30km in a blasterboat that's your problem. Learn to use the ship properly before you cry for balance changes.
Camios Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:32:00 - [50] Edited by: Camios on 25/05/2010 20:32:11 Originally by: Torpir Lee Well if you pick fights at 30km in a blasterboat that's your problem. Learn to use the ship properly before you cry for balance changes. I didn't know I was crying. I am just suggesting a thing, right now I wouldn't use a blastership while I can use autocannons except on a "yarrrrrrr-oh-****-i'mdead" lolthorax.

Zackgar Lead Farmers Honourable Templum of Alcedonia	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:27:00 - [51] You already have this feature, it was introduced in dominion. You can try it out just by going to any system in 0.0 and waiting for something to warp on grid. Whilst theyre loading grid you an travel that 20km and open fire. CCP, please buff desync kthxbai
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:46:00 - [52] Originally by: Camios I just think that introducing another ability like this (with the right limitations and penalties) could help in balancing the game, giving blastership a trick that they deserve. If only those ship could get in range... If only those ships could get in range, in many many cases they'd just die faster. It'd just erase the speedy ships and you'd use gank&spank ones more (which can kill Gallente whatever they do), and would preety much obliterate HACs as a class. They'd be used extensively by blobbers, which are the sort of people who'd cream their pants if they could prevent losing tacklers by using a Megathron to tackle those pesky people 50km off. What blasterships do indeed deserve is stuff like reasonable fitting so you don't need a RCU to fit neutrons and MWD (let's ignore the part where you might want to optionally fit a tank like normal ships fit) on most sub-Megathron ships, like fixes to bad ships with bad bonuses and slot layout, possible DPS boosts and stuff of that variety. You know, making them actually win in said closerange. This used to be so at one time, and nobody complained that they were vulenerable to kiting because, well, it makes sense if the blaster is the ultimate closerange killer. Except, for most ships, this no longer holds true. That part of the equation is direly in need of a fix. Asking to be able to teleport on ships, aside being silly, obsoletes entire playstyles and ship classes in favour or gank&spank where Gallente still die in a fire vs ships in the same shipclass. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint


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