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Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.05.23 08:57:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Lord Fitz
Speculating here, but I imagine this change will prevent 30 days worth of some items being installed in some POS factories which are too small to now hold 30 days worth.
Very interesting, for example with Hobgoblin II you can now only produce 3636 runs which comes down to 3 weeks of manufacturing at PE 5, where before you could produce 4819 in just about 4 weeks.
Fortunately i invent them so i don't have this kind of problems 
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Malakai Draevyn
Caldari
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2010.05.24 16:07:00 -
[32]
Look, boys and girls.
You lot who own the T2 BPOs make an absolute fortune, if not by selling copies, or by direct manufacturing.
So what if you have to have 10 RAM to do 10 runs on said bpo/bpc ? It's a miniscule expense compared to what you're actually going to make off it.
What's the saying in the emoragequit threads ? Less QQ - More PewPew.
Carry on.
..:: MD ::..
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Barbicane
TGUN Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.24 16:39:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Malakai Draevyn
So what if you have to have 10 RAM to do 10 runs on said bpo/bpc ? It's a miniscule expense compared to what you're actually going to make off it.
Yes, that's sort of what everyone else is saying, if you had only bothered to read the thread before posting. 
It's just that no one understands the rationale behind the change.
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Alerada
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Posted - 2010.05.24 19:41:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Malakai Draevyn
Look, boys and girls.
You lot who own the T2 BPOs make an absolute fortune, if not by selling copies, or by direct manufacturing.
So what if you have to have 10 RAM to do 10 runs on said bpo/bpc ? It's a miniscule expense compared to what you're actually going to make off it.
What's the saying in the emoragequit threads ? Less QQ - More PewPew.
Carry on.
Honestly doubt it could be put better, deal with it T2 BPOers.
Most of the complaints just seem like /whine.
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Nahkep Narmelion
Gallente
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
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Posted - 2010.05.24 20:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Malakai Draevyn
Look, boys and girls.
You lot who own the T2 BPOs make an absolute fortune, if not by selling copies, or by direct manufacturing.
So what if you have to have 10 RAM to do 10 runs on said bpo/bpc ? It's a miniscule expense compared to what you're actually going to make off it.
What's the saying in the emoragequit threads ? Less QQ - More PewPew.
Carry on.
Try reading the thread first, the overall consensus is, dumb and annoying, no emo-rage-quiting QQ.
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dankness420
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Posted - 2010.05.24 22:48:00 -
[36]
So considering the RAM needed for invention and just building from a t2 bpo is the same, how does this nerf t2 bpos again???
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Charles Park
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Posted - 2010.05.24 22:53:00 -
[37]
Because invented BPC's typically have 10 runs so you only need 10 extra RAMs on hand whereas BPO holders can build however many runs they want at once, for light drones they might build 1,000 at a time meaning they would need 1,000 RAMs on hand (even though only 50 of them would be used).
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Nahkep Narmelion
Gallente
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
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Posted - 2010.05.24 23:19:00 -
[38]
Originally by: dankness420
So considering the RAM needed for invention and just building from a t2 bpo is the same, how does this nerf t2 bpos again???
It is a question of scale really. The inventor will at most need 100 RAMs (assuming he can build using 10 slots x 10 modules/BPC), or if you have more than one invention/manufacturing character you could also make it 10*n*m where n is the number of characters, and m is the number of manufacturing slots you can use.
Since a BPO owner can produce more than 10 for him it is whatever the maximum number of units he can produce is. If the BPO owner can make 1,000 units then he'll need 1,000 RAMs.
In the end it isn't that big a deal really. You'll just have to have a few more RAMs lying around, and since people who own BPOs are also likely to have quite a bit of isk, relatively speaking it will still be an annoyance for them too. No real nerf here.
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Hulemand
Gallente
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2010.05.26 09:40:00 -
[39]
Lol, i hope this is not true. I sometimes build 200.000 tech II missiles in one go. 
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Charles Park
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Posted - 2010.05.26 10:49:00 -
[40]
You are in for some fun fun times after the patch.
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Barbicane
TGUN Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.26 14:20:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Hulemand
Lol, i hope this is not true. I sometimes build 200.000 tech II missiles in one go.
Don't worry. RAMs are calculated per batch, and since T2 missiles are produced in batches of 5000, you will just need a stack of 40 RAMs.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Malakai Draevyn
So what if you have to have 10 RAM to do 10 runs on said bpo/bpc ? It's a miniscule expense compared to what you're actually going to make off it.
I'm not sure you get it.
a) There's no profit in copying T2 BPOs, you will effectively make a loss if you do so as they take twice as long to make a 1 run copy as to build 1 run.
b) There's no additional cost involved here, the amount consumed is still the same.
I don't think anyone really cares about having more RAMs on hand, that isn't particularly difficult and I would be surprised if any BPO owners didn't already. After the first batch it makes no difference, since the same number of them vanish as before, the same amount will need to be built as before.
The ONLY real effect this has is for small / fast items like mining crystals / drones etc which may not fit 30 days worth into a POS array anymore.
And by and large these BPOs make hardly any profit, far less than invention using the same slot. For ship builders (which are the most profitable BPOs) it wouldn't make any difference in terms of space used, comparatively.
So no, there's no nerf to the BPOs, but possibly a nerf to and additional weekend per month for some of the owners.
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Toldain
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:13:00 -
[43]
While it's still less than ideal, it seems that the new way fits the model a little better.
The RAM modules aren't components, they are advanced robotics that are needed in the line to make your stuff. So you need one per run, because, in concept, the runs are simultaneous. Of course, they aren't, or else 10 runs wouldn't take 10 times as long, but never mind.
You could apply damage evenly to all of them, but that would likely result in them never getting used up. Which is kind of a problem, the bottom drops out of the RAM market. And lets face it, stuff gets used up after a while, there's only so much wear and tear that it will take.
You might use a stochastic model for this, rolling dice to determine damage to each RAM. However, there is absolutely no randomness in any other part of manufacturing (invention, yes, manufacturing, no), so it would feel pretty weird and I think we players would be more unhappy.
So they are content to blow up five percent of your RAMS each job.
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Nahkep Narmelion
Gallente
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
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Posted - 2010.05.27 17:46:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Toldain
While it's still less than ideal, it seems that the new way fits the model a little better.
Not really, the production is implicitly sequential. You use one slot to produce X items. You still only damage/use the same number of RAMs as before vs. damaging all 10.
Its a dopey fix in the end in that all serious manufacturers of T2 items will just make sure they have that buffer of RAMs. Why they did, I don't have a clue, somebody was bored at CCP and was trying to impress the boss? v0v
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Builder AlphaOne
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Posted - 2010.05.27 19:22:00 -
[45]
as i understand it, you've mostly got it wrong.
while you'll NEED one RAM per run to start the job, it will still use up the same number as it always did.
Example: 10 runs at 25% damage per run -- you'll NEED 10 to start the job and 2.5 will be used up -- thus, at the end of the job, you'll get 7 undamaged ones back, plus one that has 50% damage.
So, you buy [or build] 2 more RAM and repair the damaged one, and you're ready to go again.
Net consumed cost has not changed, just the initial number you have to have on hand. [your invested capital may have gone up -- which is no big deal.]
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Red lensman
Gallente
BlackSky inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:49:00 -
[46]
The pain will be light drone producton as RAM's are 16m3 per so batches of 2-6000 will take up 32-96k of the 100k of the drone assembly array, which with the making of the tech 1 drones as well at the same time vertually impossible.
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Melissa Coldstorm
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Posted - 2010.05.29 15:15:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Builder AlphaOne
Net consumed cost has not changed, just the initial number you have to have on hand. [your invested capital may have gone up -- which is no big deal.]
If you build in a POS, that "invested capital" includes space, of which you only have 100k
it's a big fat slap in the face of people with T2 drone and ammo BPO's, so either this gets reversed, or the hangar space in assembly arrays goes up with 50% or 100%.
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Charles Park
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Posted - 2010.05.29 15:22:00 -
[48]
Or you start jobs twice a month instead of once a month and work just a little bit harder to keep your money printing maching going? I mean it certainly must be nice to stop by your POS once a month to fuel it/pick up drones/put in a new job but surely having to do it twice a month wouldn't be the end of the world?
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Franny
Band of Builders Inc.
Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:33:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Franny on 29/05/2010 18:34:47
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Speculating here, but I imagine this change will prevent 30 days worth of some items being installed in some POS factories which are too small to now hold 30 days worth.
yep, kept me from installing 30d(plus the added invention ones) worth of Ogre 2s...
oh well, 15D runs work just as well and with luck it will **** off some of the inventors and my profit will go up
*waves evil T2 BPO around from the safety of a STATION*
Originally by: Charles Park
Or you start jobs twice a month instead of once a month and work just a little bit harder to keep your money printing maching going? I mean it certainly must be nice to stop by your POS once a month to fuel it/pick up drones/put in a new job but surely having to do it twice a month wouldn't be the end of the world?
nope, I was there all the time anyway, well my alt was, with invention sucking up more time than my BPO(and more profit)
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A1ien
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Posted - 2010.05.30 21:26:00 -
[50]
Edited by: A1ien on 30/05/2010 21:29:55
I hope this is just an oversight by CCP. I remember when they introduced the UI bug and was kind of hoping they would be fixed but at least it let the job run. Now they expect me to have 1000 R.A.M.s to start a job that will only use 50. I just cannot see the logic in CCP implementing this. I have to assume the programming team who "fixed" this miss read the original bug reports, and thought being able to accept the job with enough R.A.M's to complete production was the problem and not the UI reporting the incorrect amount required in the 1st place.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.05.30 21:39:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion
Well, I can happily live with that. My fear was that you start a 1000 run job and after that you find 1000 damaged RAMs in your Hangar.
That's never going to happen. There's a hard cap of 1000 items per hangar and it's there for a good reason.
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34.4:1 mineral compression |
Not Found
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Posted - 2010.05.31 12:17:00 -
[52]
Something needs to be done to address the issues this causes for prints like light drones.
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Not Found
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Posted - 2010.06.15 13:55:00 -
[53]
Again, something needs to be done to address the unfair issues this causes for drone prints. If every other print in the game is able to queue for 30 days worth of production, why can't drone prints? I can't imagine this is intentional. The most simple fix (if this new requirement for RAM is not going to change) would be to simply increase the storage bay capacity of drone assembly arrays.
Although even at that, I find it pretty dumb that I need 5k RAM to start the job when it will only actually use 250 of them...
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TLWE
Polish Lords' Confederacy
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Posted - 2010.06.15 14:20:00 -
[54]
CCP should erase with vengeance all these tech2 bpos. Everyone for every single failed invention make a comment under my post "AYE! DELETE TECH2 BPOS! AGREE!" now please. :)
--
B=g, Honor, Nar=d. Semper Fidelis.
 Nec Hercules Contra Plures. |
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