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Will anyone actually USE Eve-gate?

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hired goon	Posted - 2010.05.23 11:35:00 - [1] Is anyone excited about this new feature? It seems pretty cool to me, but I can only see it being used by people at work (who can't run/install eve on their work machine) and people on the move (who can't run eve on their netbook/smartphone). Also, I've always been kinda embarrassed by the idea of Eve-gate being a 'social network' - because Eve is 95% male, so even logging on would make me feel like a complete loser. Well, more of a loser. What about everyone else? Are you going to use Eve-gate? -omg-
Berneh Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2010.05.23 11:48:00 - [2] Yep i'll use it. whatever it is...
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.23 11:52:00 - [3] Yes. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Miilla	Posted - 2010.05.23 11:54:00 - [4] I will use it, only once. And that will be to disable all the public settings to private. Lets all overload eve gate servers just to do this on launch day. Its going to fail day 1.
Tecch	Posted - 2010.05.23 11:54:00 - [5] If they allowed skill changing throught it then everyone would. -------------------------------------------- I'm for sale!! Here is my Auction!
Gabriel Angelus Amarr Local-Spike Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.05.23 11:55:00 - [6] If it works as expected i fully intend to use it. ------------------------------------------------ Whatever is worth living for, is worth dying for.
Elenoe	Posted - 2010.05.23 12:01:00 - [7] Not THAT excited :) Based on current alfa (beta maybe?) version it looks like wasted CCP resources for me. I will use it as you stated. For "offline" viewing calendar (very good feature... the only one I found) and mails when I cannot log in. The very bad thing is, that add this feature into API would be more then sufficient (current inability to retrieve mails body is...). Many people are using API for offline control their account (EveHQ f.e.) And in the moment EveHQ (and others) will annects calendar ability I'm afraid I'm going to not use EVE Gate at all.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2010.05.23 12:22:00 - [8] The calendar seems like a convenient way of keeping customers informed. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
iP0D	Posted - 2010.05.23 12:46:00 - [9] I'll use it once, to turn it off. I have no interest in yet another cumbersome instrument designed to engage me in social networking or replace out of game mechanisms (forums, comms, blogs, etc) with which it will never be able to compete simply because that requires a dedicated constant allocation of resources that cannot match what subscribers themselves come up with. To get old buddies who have quit back to playing, there's much more efficient methods like convincing them that it is worth it based on quality and experiences.
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.23 12:59:00 - [10] I might use it, if CCP decides to default the sharing access to "No pilots" on launch. ________________________ Let's build a superpower.
Musical Fist Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.23 13:02:00 - [11] I am not sure about what benefits it gives, I will probably try it out and quite possibly will like it though I dont think atm it will serve a benefit to me. But then again CCP tend to not advertise new stuff as much as they could so I have a feeling like everything else eve gate will be resourceful and benefit everyone
Rebal 88 Minmatar The Exploited. Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.05.23 13:19:00 - [12] I'll use it. And finally, I must say you've read my sig.
Extraho Rector	Posted - 2010.05.23 14:05:00 - [13] I still say it should've been called Spacebook and it'd be used more. Ex
RedLion Caldari State Constructions	Posted - 2010.05.23 14:13:00 - [14] they don't allow skill change lol? That was the only thing i would use it for. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2010.05.23 14:22:00 - [15] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 23/05/2010 14:23:02 Originally by: hired goon Is anyone excited about this new feature? It seems pretty cool to me, but I can only see it being used by people at work (who can't run/install eve on their work machine) and people on the move (who can't run eve on their netbook/smartphone). Also, I've always been kinda embarrassed by the idea of Eve-gate being a 'social network' - because Eve is 95% male, so even logging on would make me feel like a complete loser. Well, more of a loser. What about everyone else? Are you going to use Eve-gate? First, I dont care if the playerbase is 100% male or 100% female. For me they are gamefriends and co-players! And since I am happily in a relationship, I dont care what sex they are! If you feel embarassed, I think you are having the wrong attitude, or should consider finding something else to do! When it comes to eve-gate, Yes! I will use it! its a neat way to keep in touch with the game while being at work! I know my boss wont like it though, but since I have my own office with a door, and pretty much controls my own working day, I will be fine. I think! Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.
Im Blue	Posted - 2010.05.23 15:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Miilla I will use it, only once. And that will be to disable all the public settings to private. ok wtf is evegate and why do i need to make it private? surly its private by default, um what ever it is
Wolfgang Jager Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2010.05.23 15:28:00 - [17] Seems like a total waste to me, nothing I wanted or intend to use there.
Pesky LaRue Minmatar Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels	Posted - 2010.05.23 15:34:00 - [18] Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 23/05/2010 15:33:59 Yup - I will be using it exactly as it's intended - as an out-of-game monitoring and social networking tool. Will I go nuts over it and think it's the greatest thing ever added to EvE? Doubtful, but I'm not sure that's what it is intended for. It's an addition/expansion to an existing framework that I already really dig - why WOULD'T I use it? . [Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels]
Amon Fyre	Posted - 2010.05.23 16:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Im Blue Originally by: Miilla I will use it, only once. And that will be to disable all the public settings to private. ok wtf is evegate and why do i need to make it private? surly its private by default, um what ever it is Originally by: CCP Rhayger Regarding EVE Gate being opt-in versus opt-out I am afraid that will not be the case. This is a conscious decision on our behalf for a number of key reasons. 1) Most importantly, EVE Gate is NOT an optional service added onto EVE. It is a new fundamental part of EVE, just as much a part as in game mail, fitting windows, contracts, etc. Opt-in versus opt-out implies this is an optional service slapped on the side, it is not. Extensive effort and investment will be going into broadening EVE Gate so that it is indispensable in enhancing and improving your experience 2) We are not ignoring security concerns, on the contrary we are investing heavily in addressing them and it is our goal to meet your concerns by giving you flexible control over your information. Our approach to addressing your concerns is not to turn off access all together, but to give you the tools to manage the control of your information yourself. This is something that will be continuously worked on, added to and enhanced 3) At its core this is a social network for EVE Players, not an anti-Social network. An opt-in setting would have almost no one included at start and is contrary to the purpose of the feature and would cripple its usefulness. We feel there are better and more productive ways to address your privacy needs. In summary, we are listening very closely to your concerns and are making conscious changes to address your privacy needs, some of those changes you have already seen as a result of feedback from alpha testing. However we feel an opt-in or opt-out option is not the answer. As EVE Gate comes to life and you begin using it we would appreciate your feedback on the account settings we roll out and what further controls you would like to see added Originally by: Gone'Postal Don't worry hunny, With your transversal I might as well be shooting blanks.
Im Blue	Posted - 2010.05.23 16:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Amon Fyre Originally by: Im Blue Originally by: Miilla I will use it, only once. And that will be to disable all the public settings to private. ok wtf is evegate and why do i need to make it private? surly its private by default, um what ever it is Originally by: CCP Rhayger Regarding EVE Gate being opt-in versus opt-out I am afraid that will not be the case. This is a conscious decision on our behalf for a number of key reasons. 1) Most importantly, EVE Gate is NOT an optional service added onto EVE. It is a new fundamental part of EVE, just as much a part as in game mail, fitting windows, contracts, etc. Opt-in versus opt-out implies this is an optional service slapped on the side, it is not. Extensive effort and investment will be going into broadening EVE Gate so that it is indispensable in enhancing and improving your experience 2) We are not ignoring security concerns, on the contrary we are investing heavily in addressing them and it is our goal to meet your concerns by giving you flexible control over your information. Our approach to addressing your concerns is not to turn off access all together, but to give you the tools to manage the control of your information yourself. This is something that will be continuously worked on, added to and enhanced 3) At its core this is a social network for EVE Players, not an anti-Social network. An opt-in setting would have almost no one included at start and is contrary to the purpose of the feature and would cripple its usefulness. We feel there are better and more productive ways to address your privacy needs. In summary, we are listening very closely to your concerns and are making conscious changes to address your privacy needs, some of those changes you have already seen as a result of feedback from alpha testing. However we feel an opt-in or opt-out option is not the answer. As EVE Gate comes to life and you begin using it we would appreciate your feedback on the account settings we roll out and what further controls you would like to see added so i have to log into something im not even sure what it is to remove details of 6 accounts or is it the 18 toons that those account house, to stop getting in game spam that i didnt sign up to.. ok am i missing something?
Lothros Andastar Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.23 16:38:00 - [21] I give it 5 days before someone from a large alliance codes some sort of spyder and is able to make a datadump of everyone in eve.
Stormmaster Neptunius	Posted - 2010.05.23 17:04:00 - [22] For me this thing is just a potential security issue. I will only use 1 single PC in the world (mine) and only use the game itself to change anything (skill training and other things). I even won't ever create a full access API key for Evemon. As for social network, I have never participated in any and not going to change anything about that. I am perfectly well with forums, icq, and in-game chat. Wait... it's mandatory? Then I am looking forward for it, to be able to disable every thing that can be disabled and set as high security settings as possible, as well as the maximum character most complicated password (in case there is a separate one for this), right after it is released. I really hope that this damn thing won't touch players unless they decide to turn this on manually.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2010.05.23 17:06:00 - [23] Originally by: Lothros Andastar I give it 5 days before someone from a large alliance codes some sort of spyder and is able to make a datadump of everyone in eve. Alliances are already waiting for evegate to go live. Which is why people are calling for it to be opt-in, not opt-out. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
Amon Fyre	Posted - 2010.05.23 17:07:00 - [24] so i have to log into something im not even sure what it is to remove details of 6 accounts or is it the 18 toons that those account house, to stop getting in game spam that i didnt sign up to.. ok am i missing something? Yes. Access into spacebook is going to be throttled at first to keep it from crashing. All your account contact details has been available since alpha to anyone who has sc**d it during testing. Anyone you set to +10 can see all your contacts. Folders are gone so all friend/foes are grouped together along with the blocked list. Remember, it's mandatory opt-in so that you have to use it to set your spacebook to private to keep your privacy, otherwise no one would use it. Originally by:** Gone'Postal Don't worry hunny, With your transversal I might as well be shooting blanks.
Feilamya	Posted - 2010.05.23 17:15:00 - [25] Originally by: CCP Rhayger 3) At its core this is a social network for EVE Players, not an anti-Social network. An opt-in setting would have almost no one included at start and is contrary to the purpose of the feature and would cripple its usefulness. We feel there are better and more productive ways to address your privacy needs. TLDR: Socialize or die!
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2010.05.23 17:36:00 - [26] Its not like I use most of those features ingame either, so no, I wont use it.
Neo Gabriel Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.05.23 18:28:00 - [27] So I was reading this thread and information got to me that CCP achieved another step on their customer service rise to the bottom. It turns out that they made your contact list, which includes all the characters on your address book and all the entities in game that you have set standings to, available to anyone you have +10 with! IT IS NOT FOR YOU TO DECIDE WHO GETS TO SEE MY ADDRESS BOOK AND MY STANDINGS LIST! But now the damage has already been done on their beta. To make this even worse, they are capping the amount of contacts you can have to 300! W T F is this S***! There are at least 300 titan pilots in game. There are many alts and people that you want to be able to know is online around the area where you play so you have an adequate intel estimate of what to expect capital hotdrop wise, among other things. And why this low arbitrary 300 number? This better not limit the number of alts, pilots and corps I can set personal standings with. Because of what they have already done in trying to ram their new pet social-engineering-development-time-waste-sink down our throats the first thing I will do when Tyrannis goes live is to enable max security and never use EVE Gate again. CCP is going to learn to treat us like customers one way or the other.
Elethiomel	Posted - 2010.05.23 19:26:00 - [28] Huzzah! An email and calendar system - just like being in the office! Hope they integrate a web-based spreadsheet system soon!
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.05.23 19:27:00 - [29] Originally by: Neo Gabriel It turns out that they made your contact list, which includes all the characters on your address book and all the entities in game that you have set standings to, available to anyone you have +10 with! Wait, seriously? That is. . .crazy. Well, I was planning to use it to check corp mails here and there. Now, I'm thinking I may go onto the "set everything private and turn it off" plan. Do the people who make decisions at CCP actually play this game?
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.23 19:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Elethiomel Huzzah! An email and calendar system - just like being in the office! Hope they integrate a web-based spreadsheet system soon! No need to - you can use Google Docs with in-game browser. ________________________ Let's build a superpower.
Cash Collection	Posted - 2010.05.23 20:28:00 - [31] if its done right all recruitment will be done from there and that is where you will show off your video's, battle reports and killboards.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.23 21:01:00 - [32] Yes, I fully intend to use it. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.23 21:38:00 - [33] Edited by: Kyra Felann on 23/05/2010 21:42:37 Let's see...it lets me check mail and the new calendar out of game? Yes, I'll use it. I can't imagine anyone not using it, honestly, unless they spend all day logged into the EVE client itself or they're a card-carrying member of the tin-foil hat brigade (like several in this thread, it seems).
Stormmaster Neptunius	Posted - 2010.05.23 21:56:00 - [34] I don't even use the in-game browser, I find it too slow and unsecure. And the "social network" part of it... Recently I have been getting Social Adaptation implants for storylines too often, about 2 of them per every non-charisma implant. Now I understand the hint But no, I am not going to participate in any social network. They are going to make limited access first, "open up a bit, then a bit more". I wonder, why not just let those people who don't want this at all simply sign up for something like "automatic most restricted profile, everything disabled" so that they wouldn't have to log into this ****? The load would be decreased significantly.
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.05.23 22:11:00 - [35] Originally by: hired goon Is anyone excited about this new feature? It seems pretty cool to me, but I can only see it being used by people at work (who can't run/install eve on their work machine) and people on the move (who can't run eve on their netbook/smartphone). Also, I've always been kinda embarrassed by the idea of Eve-gate being a 'social network' - because Eve is 95% male, so even logging on would make me feel like a complete loser. Well, more of a loser. What about everyone else? Are you going to use Eve-gate? I can see zero downsides to not having to wait 10 minutes for the slow ass client to login just to check your evemail. Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Asruv'ynn	Posted - 2010.05.23 22:16:00 - [36] Yes. It'll also keep me from having to log into the game and I can manage little things like mail quicker. Will I be on it to the extent of like some social networking site? No.. It has a simple use and it will make things easier for me when I'm having a busy day and don't have time to step in.
Stormmaster Neptunius	Posted - 2010.05.23 22:45:00 - [37] Originally by: Ella C'Tronix I can see zero downsides to not having to wait 10 minutes for the slow ass client to login just to check your evemail. Are you serious about 10 minutes? Takes about 4 seconds to launch the client, about 5 seconds to login (this doesn't count time for entering the password), then 4 seconds to enter the game with a selected character. So it takes me less than 30 seconds (even with my monstrous password) to get from desktop into the game. I realize that Evegate might be useful for some people, particularly if they need to check eve-mail often, but 10 minutes for login is incredible.
motomysz Militek Industries Looney Toons.	Posted - 2010.05.23 22:51:00 - [38] Edited by: motomysz on 23/05/2010 22:51:40 Originally by: Neo Gabriel It turns out that they made your contact list, which includes all the characters on your address book and all the entities in game that you have set standings to, available to anyone you have +10 with! Does this include corp and alliance standings? If so, then I'm not in control of who sees my information and I think that's bollocks.
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2010.05.23 22:59:00 - [39] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 23/05/2010 23:00:05 Originally by: Kyra Felann Let's see...it lets me check mail and the new calendar out of game? Yes, I'll use it. I can't imagine anyone not using it, honestly, unless they spend all day logged into the EVE client itself or they're a card-carrying member of the tin-foil hat brigade (like several in this thread, it seems). Not everyone use IG Mails. Forums are often more practical to give informations. It is the case in my corporation, and this is a good thing as I hate using Mails. For the calendar, a good alliance already have this kind of tools. So at the moment, EVE-Gate is not interresting, but it is already a security leak. I made some posts to corpmates to explain and take action against it, and also demotivate people to use Spacebook. CCP don't want to tell us what new features can be expected in the future, so for the moment it is "Implement now, develop later". A body who have no really useful organs, but CCP want us to use it anyway. So about the question of the OP, as a player already said, it is : ½ I'll use it once, to turn it off. + _______ With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have. - John Smedley, CEO of Sony Online Entertainment
Rolare Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.23 23:05:00 - [40] EVE-Gate is the only way I can contact people in-game directly... :( Anyways, I like it well enough so ya :)
Musical Fist Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.23 23:14:00 - [41] Anyone know how to test the sisi eve gate, I forgot :(
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.24 01:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Sky Marshal Not everyone use IG Mails. Forums are often more practical to give informations. It is the case in my corporation, and this is a good thing as I hate using Mails. For the calendar, a good alliance already have this kind of tools. Hey cool didn't know that random people evemailing me went to our forums! The ability to manage evemail without logging in is a big deal to me. Quote: So at the moment, EVE-Gate is not interresting (in my view of course), but it is already a security leak. I made some posts to corpmates to explain and take action against it, and also demotivate them to use Spacebook. Sad, really. They have addressed what is IMO they biggest privacy concerns. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Ruby Khann	Posted - 2010.05.24 03:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Liang Nuren Sad, really. They have addressed what is IMO they biggest privacy concerns. If they haven't changed it from opt-out to opt-in, then they haven't addressed the biggest privacy concern.
Zex Maxwell Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.24 03:39:00 - [44] Maybe. I'll have to see if it will be useful to me.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.24 04:31:00 - [45] Originally by: Ruby Khann If they haven't changed it from opt-out to opt-in, then they haven't addressed the biggest privacy concern. You have a powerful new tool at your disposal. You can either stick your head in the sand and whine like a little *** or you can move a couple sliders around to +5 and take advantage of it. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire
Myxx Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.24 05:15:00 - [46] its probably a good thing i have most everyone on my list set to -10, and basically nobody set to better than +5.
Jhagiti Tyran Invicta.	Posted - 2010.05.24 05:53:00 - [47] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Ruby Khann If they haven't changed it from opt-out to opt-in, then they haven't addressed the biggest privacy concern. You have a powerful new tool at your disposal. You can either stick your head in the sand and whine like a little ***** or you can move a couple sliders around to +5 and take advantage of it. -Liang Take advantage of what exactly? the only semi useful thing to me is the ability to read EVE mail without having to login for everything else any self respecting corp or alliance have a well setup and managed forum.
EveMart Representative EveMart Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.24 06:10:00 - [48] To be honest, I don't know why people are setting other people to +10 when they don't trust them to see their contacts list. Makes no sense to me! EveMart - The best modules, at the best prices, in the best time.
Stormmaster Neptunius	Posted - 2010.05.24 07:11:00 - [49] As for me, I don't actually care if those set to +10 watch my contact list (btw, is it about +10 or any Superb standing which is 9.5+?). As long as it is read only, it is ok. I like the role playing aspect and set various standings, they are not just "-10/red/orange/blue/dark-blue/+10" for me. And only several people are set to Superb. I worry more about actual security. You see, an extra way to login and influence the in-game stuff (like skill training) can't actually improve security - the best result will be the same level, even if Evegate itself happens to be more secure. So I'd like to be as isolated from this new feature as possible.
Nash Panthera Gallente I'm Charging My Lazor	Posted - 2010.05.24 07:13:00 - [50] Originally by: EveMart Representative To be honest, I don't know why people are setting other people to +10 when they don't trust them to see their contacts list. Makes no sense to me! well its nice to see that some one understands the standings systems and actually knows what it means... herehere I say. ************************************************Zat iz not a boobie! ************************************************
Zora'e Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.24 07:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Emperor Cheney Originally by: Neo Gabriel It turns out that they made your contact list, which includes all the characters on your address book and all the entities in game that you have set standings to, available to anyone you have +10 with! Wait, seriously? That is. . .crazy. Well, I was planning to use it to check corp mails here and there. Now, I'm thinking I may go onto the "set everything private and turn it off" plan. Do the people who make decisions at CCP actually play this game? No, it is apparent that they don't. Or if they do, they have lost all contact with reality.
Feilamya	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:04:00 - [52] Originally by: EveMart Representative To be honest, I don't know why people are setting other people to +10 when they don't trust them to see their contacts list. Makes no sense to me! It's because until recently, standing has only been a color-coded number, and everyone was free to define by himself what it means exactly (like a tool in a sandbox. I wonder if anyone at CCP knows what that means...). There was no need to trust anyone when setting standings. Personally, I used +10 only for my alts, but for someone who distinguished only between friend and enemy with no levels in between, it made perfectly sense to set all his friends to +10. A forced social network has no place in a game where most people shoot first, ask questions later, and then shoot again. In this game, every other player is a potential enemy and should be treated as such by default. Unfortunately, due to CCP's ignorance about their own game, there is nothing we can do right now. To those who are worried, I recommend deleting all your standings and contact list until this idiocy has gone live and is well enough understood, so we know how to protect ourselves. Then I give it a few weeks of abuse until CCP realize the need to make it opt-in with the next patch or hotfix.
arjun Battlestars Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:13:00 - [53] Edited by: arjun on 24/05/2010 08:16:27 not many want it but we get it stuffed down out thoats. somebody in ccp had the brilliant idea and we have to eat **** for it. might be ok in a normal social network but not within context of eve where real hate is playing a part. q1: do i have to disable the settings on every single char i have? q2: are members of my corp automatically + 10 and so able to see my contact list?
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:18:00 - [54] I'll be turning it all off on launch day too and ignoring it thereafter. Auto opt-in shows a total disregard for your customers.
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp.	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:26:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP Rhayger Regarding EVE Gate being opt-in versus opt-out I am afraid that will not be the case. This is a conscious decision on our behalf for a number of key reasons. ...none of which will prevent me from not using it anyway. /Ben
SirRalph	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:31:00 - [56] Edited by: SirRalph on 24/05/2010 08:32:46 Basically everyone will use it. EDIT: And you are not that important that everyone would like to see your contacts or standings. Basically nobody cares, maybe some metagamers do.
arjun Battlestars Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:36:00 - [57] sir ralph gratulation for ignorance. a database that combines the emploiment history of every char in the game will reveal so much. dozens of people will start creating such databases from minute one.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:42:00 - [58] I am not a lawyer but... isn't opt out illegal in Europe? One of the few things that help keep my sanity is that we are not force-opt-abused like Americans are. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
SirRalph	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:47:00 - [59] Originally by: arjun sir ralph gratulation for ignorance. a database that combines the emploiment history of every char in the game will reveal so much. dozens of people will start creating such databases from minute one. It's already PUBLIC information in TQ...............................................................................................................................
arjun Battlestars Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:48:00 - [60] ots not in a database u fool.
SirRalph	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:55:00 - [61] Originally by: arjun ots not in a database u fool. So what you think that you can reveal by that? Absolutely nothing.
Kesper North Caldari Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:56:00 - [62] OP, are you kidding? I am an alliance leader with a real job and, less than a month from now, a wife. EVE Gate is going to be my best friend ever. -- Killed me? Read about it in my blog! Northern Lights: Solo PVP in EVE Online
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.24 09:05:00 - [63] I HATE opt outs, for whatever pretend reason they are presented for. I am filing a petition against forced opt-out to the European Parliament in this moment and asking for a revision of: EU Directive 2002/58/EC Directive 2002/58/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 12 July 2002 and subsequent Directive 2003/58/EC and Amending Council Directive 68/151/EEC - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.05.24 09:06:00 - [64] Edited by: Othran on 24/05/2010 09:05:51 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 24/05/2010 08:51:31 I am not a lawyer but... isn't opt out illegal in Europe? Iceland isn't in the EU - nor is it likely to be admitted any time in the next decade (despite their target entry date of 2012) as the EU has more than enough fiscal problems ongoing now. They need Iceland like a hole in the head.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.24 09:36:00 - [65] Originally by: Othran Edited by: Othran on 24/05/2010 09:05:51 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 24/05/2010 08:51:31 I am not a lawyer but... isn't opt out illegal in Europe? Iceland isn't in the EU - nor is it likely to be admitted any time in the next decade (despite their target entry date of 2012) as the EU has more than enough fiscal problems ongoing now. They need Iceland like a hole in the head. 1) United Kingdom CCP Games UK PO Box 150 Herschel House 58 Herschel Street Slough Berkshire SL1 1HD4 That's European enough for me. 2) The servers are located in Europe, therefore it's an European affair. 3) Non rogue / illegal non european companies are suggested to adhere to EU laws when dealing with EU citizens. While it may not be obligatory, no international company worth its name that I know have forcibly opted me in something. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Cailais Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers	Posted - 2010.05.24 09:49:00 - [66] Dear EU, An interwebs game about interwebs spaceships is forcing me to use a spacebook social networkingz site. I dont want my enemies in xXSPACEPIWATESXx to know all about my interwebs spaceship friends as they might find out where my sekrit Player Owned Station is and that the scout in their system (Iamaspy) is actually my sekrit alt. Im sure you will take this very seriously as the internetz spaceships are serious business and I have read some stuff on the interwebs about the law (and stuff). I look forward to your immediate reply and the necessary UN sanctions against the ebil Icelanders. Yours covered in tinfoil, from cloud cuckoo land, Internets Spaceship pew pew pilot. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.24 10:00:00 - [67] Originally by: Cailais Dear EU, An interwebs game about interwebs spaceships is forcing me to use a spacebook social networkingz site. I dont want my enemies in xXSPACEPIWATESXx to know all about my interwebs spaceship friends as they might find out where my sekrit Player Owned Station is and that the scout in their system (Iamaspy) is actually my sekrit alt. Im sure you will take this very seriously as the internetz spaceships are serious business and I have read some stuff on the interwebs about the law (and stuff). I look forward to your immediate reply and the necessary UN sanctions against the ebil Icelanders. Yours covered in tinfoil, from cloud cuckoo land, Internets Spaceship pew pew pilot. 3 days past patch: "You have 118 messages in the inbox". and off we go with ISK sellers spamming the begeezus, Viagra mongers galore, lotto ads and all kinds of stupidly bothersome spam. Which is exactly what our law covers. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Emperors Bride	Posted - 2010.05.24 10:02:00 - [68] Maybe at first but after Dust 20567 they will open it up to hackers and send us all to the cleaners so I will need to bail then.
Cailais Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers	Posted - 2010.05.24 11:30:00 - [69] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Originally by: Cailais Dear EU, An interwebs game about interwebs spaceships is forcing me to use a spacebook social networkingz site. I dont want my enemies in xXSPACEPIWATESXx to know all about my interwebs spaceship friends as they might find out where my sekrit Player Owned Station is and that the scout in their system (Iamaspy) is actually my sekrit alt. Im sure you will take this very seriously as the internetz spaceships are serious business and I have read some stuff on the interwebs about the law (and stuff). I look forward to your immediate reply and the necessary UN sanctions against the ebil Icelanders. Yours covered in tinfoil, from cloud cuckoo land, Internets Spaceship pew pew pilot. 3 days past patch: "You have 118 messages in the inbox". and off we go with ISK sellers spamming the begeezus, Viagra mongers galore, lotto ads and all kinds of stupidly bothersome spam. Which is exactly what our law covers. I didnt say I disagreed with you - merely pointing out that I think its rather unlikely you'll have much joy explaining your case to the EU. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2010.05.24 11:31:00 - [70] I have no idea what it even is tbqh :S /me heard something about a social network :?
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.05.24 11:33:00 - [71] Originally by: Cailais Dear EU, An interwebs game about interwebs spaceships is forcing me to use a spacebook social networkingz site. I dont want my enemies in xXSPACEPIWATESXx to know all about my interwebs spaceship friends as they might find out where my sekrit Player Owned Station is and that the scout in their system (Iamaspy) is actually my sekrit alt. Im sure you will take this very seriously as the internetz spaceships are serious business and I have read some stuff on the interwebs about the law (and stuff). I look forward to your immediate reply and the necessary UN sanctions against the ebil Icelanders. Yours covered in tinfoil, from cloud cuckoo land, Internets Spaceship pew pew pilot.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.05.24 11:42:00 - [72] Can someone give me a quick tl;dr about why I need to care?
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.24 12:00:00 - [73] Quote: I didnt say I disagreed with you - merely pointing out that I think its rather unlikely you'll have much joy explaining your case to the EU Had no problem, they even let you use your native tongue. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.24 12:06:00 - [74] Quote: I didnt say I disagreed with you - merely pointing out that I think its rather unlikely you'll have much joy explaining your case to the EU Had no issue, they even let me expose my case in my native tongue (since it's in a list of supported ones). - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 12:09:00 - [75] Originally by: Malcanis Can someone give me a quick tl;dr about why I need to care? You should care, slowly peoples liberties are being eroded away. Scary part is a lot of people can't see it.
Hooch Flux Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.24 12:25:00 - [76] Just wondering how anybody is going to clain any privacy issue with a fictional character that you don't own? If you are silly enough to connect your personal (rl) data to any of this then you deserve what you get. I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.24 12:35:00 - [77] Originally by: Hooch Flux Just wondering how anybody is going to clain any privacy issue with a fictional character that you don't own? If you are silly enough to connect your personal (rl) data to any of this then you deserve what you get. Even without resorting to RL data: 1) You are friend with A and B 2) 6 months pass. B litigates with A and joins enemy alliance. 3) Of course of your 50 contacts you have NO game facility to warn you of 2) 4) You magically find yourself boned by B's new alliance members and wonder WTF happened. Ofc you discover it while you were flying your L4 deadspace fit mission boat... Now, you could remove B. Could contact B and even convince him to cease. Too bad, your info now has leaked as is completely in the public domain. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Hooch Flux Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.24 12:39:00 - [78] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Originally by: Hooch Flux Just wondering how anybody is going to clain any privacy issue with a fictional character that you don't own? If you are silly enough to connect your personal (rl) data to any of this then you deserve what you get. Even without resorting to RL data: 1) You are friend with A and B 2) 6 months pass. B litigates with A and joins enemy alliance. 3) Of course of your 50 contacts you have NO game facility to warn you of 2) 4) You magically find yourself boned by B's new alliance members and wonder WTF happened. Ofc you discover it while you were flying your L4 deadspace fit mission boat... Now, you could remove B. Could contact B and even convince him to cease. Too bad, your info now has leaked as is completely in the public domain. Simple, don't set anyone +10 unless they are someone you personally know, after all it is just a game. Not like you will lose your job over it or something. I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.24 12:41:00 - [79] Originally by: Hooch Flux Simple, don't set anyone +10 unless they are someone you personally know, after all it is just a game. A simpler solution is to log in to EVEGate once, turn off all sharing, and never use it again. ________________________ Let's build a superpower.
Hooch Flux Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.24 12:43:00 - [80] Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Hooch Flux Simple, don't set anyone +10 unless they are someone you personally know, after all it is just a game. A simpler solution is to log in to EVEGate once, turn off all sharing, and never use it again. Or this if it bothers you that much! I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Hakaru Ishiwara Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.05.24 13:32:00 - [81] Originally by: Othran I'll be turning it all off on launch day too and ignoring it thereafter. Auto opt-in shows a total disregard for your customers. This is the most elementary lesson learned, oh, about ten years ago with web-based customer-oriented offerings. Make damn sure that your customer is aware of the shiny, but also give them the chance to choose if they want to turn on the shiny. Simple, respectful and effective.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.24 13:41:00 - [82] Quote: Simple, don't set anyone +10 unless they are someone you personally know, after all it is just a game. Not like you will lose your job over it or something Of course it never occurred that you could be demanded to set some standings to use some facilities, or that people who setup standings 3 years ago might not know (no notice in game) they are bound to have to reset them. Quote: A simpler solution is to log in to EVEGate once, turn off all sharing, and never use it again. Of course we are all meant to wake up in the middle of the night, in the hotel 500 miles off home to be _1st_ to log in after the server comes back up after the patch to disable sharing and avoid the spiders to gather the data in the first minutes, right? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.24 13:49:00 - [83] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: A simpler solution is to log in to EVEGate once, turn off all sharing, and never use it again. Of course we are all meant to wake up in the middle of the night, in the hotel 500 miles off home to be _1st_ to log in after the server comes back up after the patch to disable sharing and avoid the spiders to gather the data in the first minutes, right? Of course ________________________ Let's build a superpower.
Hooch Flux Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.24 13:54:00 - [84] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Simple, don't set anyone +10 unless they are someone you personally know, after all it is just a game. Not like you will lose your job over it or something Of course it never occurred that you could be demanded to set some standings to use some facilities, or that people who setup standings 3 years ago might not know (no notice in game) they are bound to have to reset them. Quote: I understand where you are coming from but tbh the worst case senario is someone finds out some information about a fictional character and some pixals are destroyed, not to big a deal in the great scheme of things. I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Face Palmer Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.05.24 14:24:00 - [85] I tried to use the Eve gate but right clicking it does nothing - no 'warp to' , 'orbit' , or 'jump' option. haz I been h4x?
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.05.24 15:49:00 - [86] Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara Originally by: Othran I'll be turning it all off on launch day too and ignoring it thereafter. Auto opt-in shows a total disregard for your customers. This is the most elementary lesson learned, oh, about ten years ago with web-based customer-oriented offerings. Make damn sure that your customer is aware of the shiny, but also give them the chance to choose if they want to turn on the shiny. Simple, respectful and effective. The point with this sort of stuff is the company's attitude. CCPs is pretty bad given that they are assuming everyone would wish to be opted into something most of them won't know exists. Its not a question of "tinfoil hats", its a question of trust. We (sort of) know what info is available now but for the future? I'm sure we've all had emails from companies we opted out from when they "changed/updated their email system" yes? So how often are you meant to check that CCP haven't exposed data you don't want exposed due to patches/upgrades stuffing up previous settings? I have no idea but I don't want to have to check. Anyone who operates a system which requires a customer to opt-out is someone who doesn't have a clue about CRM.
An Anarchyyt Gallente GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.05.24 15:55:00 - [87] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Internet Law So, what law school did you go to? The 4chan Institute of Legal Studies? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Agent Unknown Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.24 16:21:00 - [88] Edited by: Agent Unknown on 24/05/2010 16:21:28 Did anyone see the part where CCP said scraping/using spiders to obtain information will warrant a ban from the service? I think that it won't prevent all crawlers, but it'll stop most. If you don't trust someone enough to see your contacts list, why do you have them +10 anyway? +10 implies friend or ally...+5 just means "Okay, I won't shoot, but no access to secret stuff!" It's similar with outposts and the like in this function. As a couple others have said, either reset all your +10s (except alts ofc) or put them at +5 if you don't trust them enough. I'm also sure it's at a pilot level so corporation and alliance standings won't have any effect. By the way, this is my signature. TeamSpeak For EVE - API-controlled TeamSpeak 3 Access!
laksmi2	Posted - 2010.05.24 16:56:00 - [89] are my corpmates automatically +10?
Agent Unknown Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:02:00 - [90] Originally by: laksmi2 are my corpmates automatically +10? When I briefly tested the alpha, I didn't see that ability (I couldn't see other people in my corp). By the way, this is my signature. TeamSpeak For EVE - API-controlled TeamSpeak 3 Access!
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:03:00 - [91] Originally by: Agent Unknown If you don't trust someone enough to see your contacts list, why do you have them +10 anyway? +10 implies friend or ally...+5 just means "Okay, I won't shoot, but no access to secret stuff!" It's similar with outposts and the like in this function. I seriously doubt that you give your phone contact list to an IRL friend... Same thing here with ingame contacts. Friend don't mean that we will tell him everything, and especialy contacts. _______ With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have. - John Smedley, CEO of Sony Online Entertainment
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:04:00 - [92] Originally by: laksmi2 are my corpmates automatically +10? I'd assume so, yes. Apply \| CBSN Lounge
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:06:00 - [93] Originally by: Kesper North and, less than a month from now, a wife. My sincerest condolences. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Agent Unknown Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:10:00 - [94] Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 24/05/2010 17:07:28 Originally by: Agent Unknown If you don't trust someone enough to see your contacts list, why do you have them +10 anyway? +10 implies friend or ally...+5 just means "Okay, I won't shoot, but no access to secret stuff!" It's similar with outposts and the like in this function. I seriously doubt that you give your phone contact list to an IRL friend... Same thing here with ingame contacts. Friend don't mean that we will tell him everything, and especialy contacts, same if Facebook successed to change the definition of the word "Friend". Facebook essentially did that by allowing friends to see basically "all" your information that you put on it (I recently deactivated my account because of recent issues). I think CCP is trying to do the same thing...which although I see workarounds by changing standings, it's not really for EVE. I know CCP is trying hard to get people to use it, and hopefully they will listen to some of the feedback and offer ways to secure your information. By the way, this is my signature. TeamSpeak For EVE - API-controlled TeamSpeak 3 Access!
Sarina Berghil Minmatar New Zion Judge Advocate	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:14:00 - [95] Since a large part of Eve for me happens in the email interface, and various out of game tools and services, I can certainly see myself doing all this without even logging on with Eve-gate available. Hopefully that means more intensive pew pew, when I am logged on to the game client.
123GuessWho	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:47:00 - [96] only if theres an option to capt out of it, too much info on there
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:57:00 - [97] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I HATE opt outs, for whatever pretend reason they are presented for. I am filing a petition against forced opt-out to the European Parliament in this moment and asking for a revision of: EU Directive 2002/58/EC Directive 2002/58/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 12 July 2002 and subsequent Directive 2003/58/EC and Amending Council Directive 68/151/EEC VV, you don't have a legal leg to stand on. You don't own anything, and the game is provided as a service. You opted in by paying your subscription and/or buying the game. Seriously, the same kind of twisted logic could be used to declare that PVP in Counter Strike should be opt in. I opt in only to dualie duels, of course. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 18:03:00 - [98] Originally by: laksmi2 are my corpmates automatically +10? Not if their standing is set at 5.0 I'm in a single corp so not a problem to me as yet.
Jypsie	Posted - 2010.05.24 18:25:00 - [99] I'll use it. I dislike that it shares any information automatically without your permission to start with but I've reviewed that issue and what is shared by default is of no concern to me. Measures have been taken, so to speak. However, the ability to access email, contacts, and calendar from outside the game will help me greatly in organizing game events ahead of time so that when I do finally have time to log in and play I should actually get more flight time in.
Daemonspirit Redhawk Tribal Trust	Posted - 2010.05.24 19:42:00 - [100] Doubt I'll use it. For whatever reason, I hate "opt - out", imho, its arrogant as hell. So, I'll log in, turn it off, and go about my business... ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:44:00 - [101] Quote: So, what law school did you go to? The 4chan Institute of Legal Studies? No, never been in your alliance. Quote: Facebook essentially did that by allowing friends to see basically "all" your information that you put on it (I recently deactivated my account because of recent issues). I think CCP is trying to do the same thing...which although I see workarounds by changing standings, it's not really for EVE. I know CCP is trying hard to get people to use it, and hopefully they will listen to some of the feedback and offer ways to secure your information. CCP should: 1) Read the worldwide wall of flames off prominent information sites (IE ZDNet) thrown on Facebook's "fancy" privacy concept and how Facebook owners are being pushed into improving privacy over there. 2) Make the product so good that everyone want to use it, not ninja force people into it, without them even knowing they are. 3) At least send an in game warning about the implications of EvE Gate and how to opt out of it. It still kicks military / months off people in the groin, but at least it saves many others. I of course already reset everything but I am thinking for the others, those (and I have a dozen EvE friends in the situation) who won't have a chance to fix their stuff as ATM they can't play, much less read the forum. Quote: VV, you don't have a legal leg to stand on. You don't own anything, and the game is provided as a service. You opted in by paying your subscription and/or buying the game. "Exceptions: A business relationship in which contact information was obtained constitutes prior consent as long as a means to opt out was provided at the same time and continues to be provided with each such message and each message is about similar products or services by the same company" Quote: You don't own anything, and the game is provided as a service I also don't own anything in my WEB based email, it's also provided as a service, yet I am protected on it. Most of all - and in my country this is continuously used to void shady contracts (I don't know the proper English words :S) - is the factual effect. Do I - not as avatar, but the real me - get harassed by an unsolicited "Buy Cialis" e-mail? Yes. Do I - not as avatar, but the real me - get harassed by an unsolicited "Buy ISK" in game mail (caused by a data mining bot run at "EvE Gate day zero"? Yes. I don't own anything in both, I get the same effect in both and I get the harassing effect on me, the RL dude not an avatar. I still pretend I am in my property. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.05.24 22:48:00 - [102] Of course I'll use it. But the real excitement is for features coming after May 25th. Originally by: Mag's Originally by: Kesper North and, less than a month from now, a wife. My sincerest condolences. You need to make sure that your prenup is clear that when the inevitable happens, you do not lose half your ISK!
Jhagiti Tyran Invicta.	Posted - 2010.05.25 00:05:00 - [103] Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran on 25/05/2010 00:05:12 Originally by: Liang Nuren VV, you don't have a legal leg to stand on. You don't own anything, and the game is provided as a service. You opted in by paying your subscription -Liang I don't see orange or my land line provider publishing my digitally stored contact information without my permission so why the hell is it acceptable for any other kind of service provider to do it?.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.05.25 00:19:00 - [104] Something tells me this may well reveal a few undercover spy alts from big alliances. I personally won't use Eve gate... if they are implementing all this crap then there is no excuse not for implementing the idea of being able to alter your skill queue out of game. Nuff said.
Prieith Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.25 00:20:00 - [105] Edited by: Prieith on 25/05/2010 00:23:17 Mkay, so when i play EvE now, i use Teamspeak for corp/alliance, Ventrilo for RL buddies, 2 channels on irc for corp/alliance, and 2 channels on another irc server for RL buddies, MSN is running in the background, and dotlan maps on a laptop. And one forum for corp, and one for alliance. And now evegate also? How social do i need to be?
SlayerOfArgus Gallente Hermes Enterprises	Posted - 2010.05.25 00:42:00 - [106] Yes
Da'iel Zehn Bloodnaut Wayfarer Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2010.05.25 00:57:00 - [107] I will be using it for sure. -- DZ's website Got a problem? Talk to my gun.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.05.25 00:58:00 - [108] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 25/05/2010 01:00:22 Quote: Do I - not as avatar, but the real me - get harassed by an unsolicited "Buy ISK" in game mail (caused by a data mining bot run at "EvE Gate day zero"? Yes. That data mining bot sure must be popular, since apparently he is set +10 by a large section of the EVE community. Otherwise it can get nothing. Now if some people did set "him" blue for some reason (or had him in their corp) I suppose (if someone actually took the time to make the bot work) that it might capture their contact list, but unless the people on that list also have him set +10 he can mine no further. Frankly, you'd be far more effective creating a bot that captures the names of the people passing through Jita local. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.25 01:05:00 - [109] Originally by: VV "Exceptions: A business relationship in which contact information was obtained constitutes prior consent as long as a means to opt out was provided at the same time and continues to be provided with each such message and each message is about similar products or services by the same company" You are aware that they're opting you in to a game feature which might reveal in game information right? Let me know when they opt you in to putting your home address on the internet via eve-gate. Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran I don't see orange or my land line provider publishing my digitally stored contact information without my permission so why the hell is it acceptable for any other kind of service provider to do it?. Let's be clear: You own nothing about this game, and neither do I. If they wanted to publish everything at all about your character, you'd have no legal grounds for complaint. None. Now if they go publishing your home address/email address/whatever you might be able to complain. But this is a game feature. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Jhagiti Tyran Invicta.	Posted - 2010.05.25 01:20:00 - [110] Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran on 25/05/2010 01:24:27 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran I don't see orange or my land line provider publishing my digitally stored contact information without my permission so why the hell is it acceptable for any other kind of service provider to do it?. Let's be clear: You own nothing about this game, and neither do I. If they wanted to publish everything at all about your character, you'd have no legal grounds for complaint. None. Now if they go publishing your home address/email address/whatever you might be able to complain. But this is a game feature. -Liang Why are you blindly defending this? cant you see why many people see this as a breech of player trust in CCP? because what could be next? publishing our chatlogs perhaps? or recording conversations on EVE voice? by your argument they would have the legal right to do this and while I am never going to get into a :internet lawyers: argument I do not think they have the right to do this because who you choose to socialize or speak with in a game should not be made public without permission just because it happens to be on CCP servers. By your logic a mobile phone service provider have the right to publicly publish a list of everyone a customer texts or calls when in reality they need a court order to even show the police any logs. And in any case if CCP do have this right we need to consent to this by agreeing to the terms and conditions presented in the EULA so on patch day if players do not accept the new revised EULA will that automatically exclude their data from being published? (and from logging into the game in the process ofc)
Lanais Suleia	Posted - 2010.05.25 01:54:00 - [111] Originally by: Miilla I will use it, only once. And that will be to disable all the public settings to private. Lets all overload eve gate servers just to do this on launch day. Its going to fail day 1. +1
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.25 02:12:00 - [112] Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran Why are you blindly defending this? I'm not. I'm just not blindly lashing out either. Quote: cant you see why many people see this as a breech of player trust in CCP? because what could be next? publishing our chatlogs perhaps? or recording conversations on EVE voice? by your argument they would have the legal right to do this and while I am never going to get into a :internet lawyers: argument I do not think they have the right to do this because who you choose to socialize or speak with in a game should not be made public without permission just because it happens to be on CCP servers. Oh come the ** on man. There's a little bit of a difference between your friends knowing who your other friends are and them publishing chat logs. Quote: By your logic a mobile phone service provider have the right to publicly publish a list of everyone a customer texts or calls when in reality they need a court order to even show the police any logs. What the are you on about? My logic has nothing to do with that. That's Real Life. This is Internet Spaceships. BIG ING DIFFERENCE BROSKI. I'd spam the rolleyes button like 50 times, but this single one will have to do: Quote: And in any case if CCP do have this right we need to consent to this by agreeing to the terms and conditions presented in the EULA so on patch day if players do not accept the new revised EULA will that automatically exclude their data from being published? (and from logging into the game in the process ofc) What makes you think that the EULA needs to be updated to allow this? What part of the EULA, specifically, forbids Evegate? -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire
Jhagiti Tyran Invicta.	Posted - 2010.05.25 02:51:00 - [113] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran Why are you blindly defending this? I'm not. I'm just not blindly lashing out either. yes you are your just posting "CCP owns your soul" and not even just slightly thinking about how it might be wrong. Originally by: Liang Nuren Quote: cant you see why many people see this as a breech of player trust in CCP? because what could be next? publishing our chatlogs perhaps? or recording conversations on EVE voice? by your argument they would have the legal right to do this and while I am never going to get into a :internet lawyers: argument I do not think they have the right to do this because who you choose to socialize or speak with in a game should not be made public without permission just because it happens to be on CCP servers. Oh come the ** on man. There's a little bit of a difference between your friends knowing who your other friends are and them publishing chat logs. According to the argument you made about CCP owning every single players social activity record its not different at all its just a different level of privacy invasion. Originally by:** Liang Nuren Quote: By your logic a mobile phone service provider have the right to publicly publish a list of everyone a customer texts or calls when in reality they need a court order to even show the police any logs. What the ** are you on about? My logic has nothing to do with that. That's Real Life. This is Internet Spaceships. BIG ING DIFFERENCE BROSKI. I'd spam the rolleyes button like 50 times, but this single one will have to do: Lets go back a few posts to one of your earlier statements:- Originally by:** Liang Nuren You don't own anything, and the game is provided as a service. You opted in by paying your subscription Its true the in game content is internet spaceships but in reality CCP provides a service in return for a subscription and this makes CCP a service provider, who you decide to socialise with is not in game content and should not be disclosed without the subscribers permission. Originally by: Liang Nuren Quote: And in any case if CCP do have this right we need to consent to this by agreeing to the terms and conditions presented in the EULA so on patch day if players do not accept the new revised EULA will that automatically exclude their data from being published? (and from logging into the game in the process ofc) What makes you think that the EULA needs to be updated to allow this? What part of the EULA, specifically, forbids Evegate? Subscribers who currently play the game agreed to the terms and conditions based on the content at the time they consented to the EULA, if players do not agree to the terms and conditions related to the new content (EVE gate) should they be subjected to the consequences of that new content, namely the disclosing of social records? I don't believe they should.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.25 03:15:00 - [114] Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran yes you are your just posting "CCP owns your soul" and not even just slightly thinking about how it might be wrong. No... I said nothing about your soul. I said that they owned the data on their server that's related to your in game characters. Do you deny this? Also, I was extremely critical of EveGate in the initial roll out on sisi. It was a bit too revealing.... but I wouldn't worry about such things now that the major concerns have been addressed. Quote: According to the argument you made about CCP owning every single players social activity record its not different at all its just a different level of privacy invasion. I think the argument could be made that kind of data is more closely aligned with data transmitted over IM networks. I think its a totally different level of thing because one thing we're talking about releases data strictly of use in game, while another has an extremely high likelihood of containing data that could be used for nefarious purposes out of game. Even still, I would probably have no recourse unless it contained very specific kinds of data. On this note, I don't see you flaming Chribba for releasing an entire week's worth of chat logs? Quote: Its true the in game content is internet spaceships but in reality CCP provides a service in return for a subscription and this makes CCP a service provider, who you decide to socialise with is not in game content and should not be disclosed without the subscribers permission. Oh, better get rid of killmails and corp tickers on the forums too eh? Look, there's already tons of data out there for anyone that cares to look. You can *** and moan all you want to about it, but ultimately they've given you the tools to take advantage of this in a way that both delivers the benefits and doesn't unnecessarily expose "your" data. Originally by:** Liang Nuren Subscribers who currently play the game agreed to the terms and conditions based on the content at the time they consented to the EULA, if players do not agree to the terms and conditions related to the new content (EVE gate) should they be subjected to the consequences of that new content, namely the disclosing of social records? I don't believe they should. I asked you to point to a specific clause of the EULA that prohibits Eve Gate or anything like it. Obviously, you can't do that. Thus, you quite likely don't need to sign a new EULA. But feel free to quit, and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Jhagiti Tyran Invicta.	Posted - 2010.05.25 03:38:00 - [115] Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran on 25/05/2010 03:44:47 Originally by: Liang Nuren On this note, I don't see you flaming Chribba for releasing an entire week's worth of chat logs? You don't see me flaming anyone at all I am just presenting my opinion in a clear mature way please show me where I have insulted, swore or or resorted to ad hominem attacks. I have not posted an opinion on whatever Chribba is supposed to have done because I dont know what happened but it does not really have any relevance to to this discussion as Chribba is not CCP. But as you bring up the big C it seems he is also against the default "opt in" setting for EVE gate. Originally by: Liang Nuren But feel free to quit, and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Also where do I say I am quiting? I just said that people who do not agree should be not subjected to it, personally I will turn every feature in EVE gate off that I can and never use it again. Regarding the possible amendments to the EULA in every major patch or expansion CCP have given players the option to refuse or agree to it both when you install the patch and login the first time after installation I don't see them not doing the same this time around.
jag Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.05.25 03:44:00 - [116] Umm lets see CCP say its a way to force people to become more social and make more friends in eve. eve has a player base of 350k+, 98% of which are male As I am hetero thats a no from me .
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2010.05.25 05:14:00 - [117] All I am going to say about this EVE gat stuff. Is look interesting and I see alot of people flaming with no bases! It's sharing in game info! not sharing RL life info and people talking there could be legal action is a complete moron! CCP owns all the info of toons! not you! Also using the logic to phone number to be made public is dumb as well. I mean phone books? I get calls from companys and they said they get it from phone books O.o I can't do much about it other i have to pay to hide my dam number! How about Research and think before posting because the crap I see about this is Embarrassing! Trinity Corporate Services
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.25 05:18:00 - [118] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha The law applies to email, but I am quite sure that revealing information leading to unsolicited third parties to a loss of virtual assets is as damaging as having a loss due to email. It's...a...game.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.25 07:56:00 - [119] Quote: Mkay, so when i play EvE now, i use Teamspeak for corp/alliance, Ventrilo for RL buddies, 2 channels on irc for corp/alliance, and 2 channels on another irc server for RL buddies, MSN is running in the background, and dotlan maps on a laptop. And one forum for corp, and one for alliance. And now evegate also? How social do i need to be? TBH when I was in IT Alliance I kept asking myself why we'd need to use 10000000 chats, IRC and whatever just to do what we did till 1 week before joining IT but with just _2_ chats. Quote: Oh come the ** on man. There's a little bit of a difference between your friends knowing who your other friends are and them publishing chat logs. Yeah, the bit is about leaking to "friends or friends" what alts you use to fly JFs and the likes. Hardly relevant. Quote: Also where do I say I am quiting? I noticed how for some people you are not meant to be free, nor to have an opinion deviating from the "groupthink right opinion". If you do, you are meant to quit and / or do seppuku. Quote: It's...a...game And? Do principles change just because applied to less important things? When you get the Cialis e-mail it's... a... email. When you get the Cialis SMS / phone call it's... a... call. What evil can do an email or a SMS? Little? Regardless, some countries have laws dealing even with these things. Are those laws overkill? Maybe, but they are still here. Quote:** Regarding the possible amendments to the EULA in every major patch or expansion CCP have given players the option to refuse or agree to it both when you install the patch and login the first time after installation I don't see them not doing the same this time around In theory, if I refuse the EULA (that WILL be shown and required to be "signed") I should become unable to further play the game (fair) but as consequence of the denial, the new unsolicited features should not be activated either. Wanna bet with me that this won't be the case? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Creepin	Posted - 2010.05.25 08:42:00 - [120] Social networks disgusts me as it's my firm belief that they're used only by complete losers or outright ret_ards, so I wasn't planning to use EVE-Gate, obviously. However, moronic opt-out decision ccp comes up with (well can't blame them this exact time as it's what they always do) apparently forces me to pollute myself by using it once - to shut down all possible access to my ingame information. 'Tis sad.
Digital Solaris	Posted - 2010.05.25 09:25:00 - [121] Makes sense to have it for logistical reasons if you are part of a alliance, not so much if you are not. I'll opt-out as I can't be arsed to use it and I don't give a flying toss about it.
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb Nostradamus Effect	Posted - 2010.05.25 11:23:00 - [122] Originally by: hired goon Is anyone excited about this new feature? It seems pretty cool to me, but I can only see it being used by people at work (who can't run/install eve on their work machine) and people on the move (who can't run eve on their netbook/smartphone). HELLO \o/
khendro Caldari Point of No Return	Posted - 2010.05.25 11:42:00 - [123] EVE GATE is quite disappointing at the moment. It would be useful if it had the following features: - Add skills to the skill queue. - Corp/Alliance forum when you create a corp/alliance, it automatically generates a public/private forum where your corpmembers can discuss stuff. - Integrated killboard which can't be tampered with. I've seen plenty of corps who delete loss mails just so they can brag about killboard efficiency, but challenge them to a fair fight and they'll dock up until they outnumber you 5-1.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.25 11:51:00 - [124] Originally by: khendro - Add skills to the skill queue. Never going to happen. Quote: - Corp/Alliance forum when you create a corp/alliance, it automatically generates a public/private forum where your corpmembers can discuss stuff. This was in the plans as originally presented ù whether it actually ever shows up is a different matter. Quote: - Integrated killboard which can't be tampered with. I've seen plenty of corps who delete loss mails just so they can brag about killboard efficiency, but challenge them to a fair fight and they'll dock up until they outnumber you 5-1. Well hey, this is EVE. <EVE stock phrases> If you're in a fair fight, you're doing it wrong. If the odds are even, it's because the other guy's backup hasn't arrived yet. There are lots of 1-on-1:s to be had ù you just have to kill the other 20 guys first. </EVE stock phrases> ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Zora'e Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.25 11:57:00 - [125] Originally by: Tippia [ <EVE stock phrases> If you're in a fair fight, you're doing it wrong. If the odds are even, it's because the other guy's backup hasn't arrived yet. There are lots of 1-on-1:s to be had ù you just have to kill the other 20 guys first. </EVE stock phrases> rofl
Stormmaster Neptunius	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:17:00 - [126] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: khendro - Add skills to the skill queue. Never going to happen. I thought I used to read about changing skill training via Evegate. Just rechecked the feature page, right, it says "check skills", not "change skills". It means the thing poses less threat and it makes me feel better. I will probably not rush to disable everything in the first hour, but do it a bit later.
Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:49:00 - [127] I think event calender is one of the only feature I really like about this expansion (though our alliance forum already have event calender with local timer anyway).
Blasphemour	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:34:00 - [128] Man... the tears are heavy in this topic... don't drown in your tears people, it's just a spaceships under water game. Throwing with laws and regulations would be in place when your real life information would be published. This is NOT the case. Your EVE information could be accessible to people you have set to +10 standings. So friggin' what? It's just names people... names! It's not like your complete relations to those people will be public or anything. Talking about crawlers and spiders is bull...'droppings' as well... did you set them to +10? Yes? well tough luck, apparently the one you've trusted enough to give +10 standings wasn't too trustworthy after all. Stop crying as if your bank account, phone book and f*** all is gonna be published, it's some random information about in-game contacts that doesn't mean...stuff... I'm sure I will use EVE-gate a lot, it sounds like a very cool tool that can have many uses, especially for CEO's and officers of a corp/alliance. The calender is a great asset to have available out of game. If you are leading an event and you need to quickly postpone it, just update it in the calender and everyone is aware it will start later.
Zey Nadar Gallente S0utherN Comfort Enforcers of Serenity	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:37:00 - [129] I havent even looked at this thing yet, and the only thing that I would like (not sure if its in or not) is reading evemailbox out of game and maybe sending messages... I am hardly excited as I dont know if its a bird or a fish..
Hanns Spree	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:54:00 - [130] I'll definitely use it. Keep tabs on things when I'm not able to play. Either from work, friends homes, family, some guy' laptop using McDonald's free wifi. If I can hit the internet...I'll be checking on things. Those that don't use it just free up bandwidth for the likes of me. Thanks!
Enik3 Caldari Phoenix Lair	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:25:00 - [131] Edited by: Enik3 on 26/05/2010 13:28:07 I sure will. I love the idea of being able to check email when I'm traveling or not in the mood to boot up the client. It does need the ability to manipulate the skill queue to make it really valuable though.
S'Way	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:40:00 - [132] Will use it once - like many others here to turn everything private and then forget it even exists. Opt-out for anything is frankly a very bad customer service design for when companies launch something they know people won't otherwise use normally. My guess is the plans went like this:- 1. Invent new shiny few want because "social-networking is all the rage these days". 2. Realise it'll be a 5 minute wonder (like faction-warfare was at the start), so make it opt-out to give it the biggest user number possible and claim it's a success. 3. Continue to make Dust console only at the start - something PC users actually DO want. 4. Keep adding new shiny stuff to get new players...instead of actually fixing the broken stuff in the game currrently. (server stability+ socket closed issues would be a start). Is it really too much to ask for fixes to current problems before new stuff that causes more is added ?
Intoagun Deshana Minmatar Sentinel Eradicators of Doom	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:44:00 - [133] I know I will use it, I am always working and sometime I will want to plan something with my friends and still keep my schedule with work. Not to mention keep my boyfriend on a sleeping schedule.
Lord Roshan The Synergy OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:45:00 - [134] I'll be using EVE Gate.
Blasphemour	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:08:00 - [135] Edited by: Blasphemour on 26/05/2010 14:08:51 Originally by: S'Way 3. Continue to make Dust console only at the start - something I actually DO want. Fixed that for you
Sedilis Lead Farmers	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:18:00 - [136] Originally by: hired goon Are you going to use Eve-gate? Yes
Mantees Gallente The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:20:00 - [137] I will be using it when I will be able to check from work how my trades are going -- OGRank.com - EVE Online - MMORPG News
Delorean Alba	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:32:00 - [138] I'll use it just to turn it off
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.05.26 15:05:00 - [139] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 26/05/2010 15:05:53 I'll be setting it to max security but I'll still use it to check eve-mail from my phone when I can't be online. And probably to check calendars if the in-game calendars feed into it. As a CEO I think it'll be an invaluable tool to keep me connected to my corp members when I can't be online. As a player I think the silliness with giving anyone access to any of your information without making it opt-in is a mistake on CCP's part. Market Alerts Mailing List
SELKERUS	Posted - 2010.05.26 15:55:00 - [140] Response to OP: No. Reason: I like to seperate the time i spend playing games from the rest of my life. Dont feel the need to merge the two any more than i currently do. Exception: Use once to turn it off as much as possible Opinion: Security (from an in game perspective), well as i go by the rule Trust No-one until (a)you have spoken to them at length on voice coms (b) know something about them in real life (c) possibly have met them and thier family - then introducing this as an Opt In feature is ( as has been pointed out) a disingenuous approach. Allowing people with +10 standings to view your address book means nothing as it is just a list of characters - being part of a large 0.0 alliance means having no control over this, which seems a little strange as you would think an address book is an inherently private thing. Any information i have ( or think i have ) about this feature has been gained from forum posts. I accept, therefore, that i may have based an opinion on incorrect or incomplete data. As the facts ( as i know them ) change, so might my opinion.
DTMKnight	Posted - 2010.05.26 16:06:00 - [141] I will use it and I'm guessing EVE Gate may be used to link people who will have accounts for both EVE and Dust 514. This way you will have one convenient location to manage accounts for two games that are not linked otherwise.
Promu Minmatar The Lost and The Damned Erebus Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.26 16:12:00 - [142] Inserts witty comment about how lame eve gate will be in order to get acceptance from my forum peers and sound cool, even though i will probably use it. -------
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.05.26 16:26:00 - [143] Social Networking sites are so manipulative to the very bone of human relations... Why would they assume that I would want even my closest friends to know who my other friends are? Why put me in a position where if I want to test (or even feign) closeness to someone and treat them like a close friend when I still have apprhensions about them I need to either give them a rejection (thwarting the development of situational trust) or introduce them to details of my life (other friends and family) that I may never be willing to share with them. Its just a dumb assumption that I want my friends to know who my other friends are , in real life and in the game. I can get into the deeper political issues (mcarthyism?) and social issues (mild excummication of radical minded people who you would prefer not to be publically associated with- Gays if you are otherwise a trusted member of a Mormon community?)... but I'm not sure I'm eloquent enought to express them... previous attempts have failed.
Nagal Sombre	Posted - 2010.05.26 16:57:00 - [144] Is there a link or a "how to disable" so i can turn it off as soon as it is launched? I'm a bit picky about internet security, i see everyday the catastrophic result of a poor security understanding. This doesn't mean i won't use it taught in the future, depend on the quality of the service. Maybe being able to change my skill queue would be a nice first step to even look in it
shady trader	Posted - 2010.05.26 20:56:00 - [145] Originally by: Nagal Sombre Is there a link or a "how to disable" so i can turn it off as soon as it is launched? I'm a bit picky about internet security, i see everyday the catastrophic result of a poor security understanding. This doesn't mean i won't use it taught in the future, depend on the quality of the service. Maybe being able to change my skill queue would be a nice first step to even look in it Yes and no. CCP in there infinite wisdom have enabled sharing by default, then throttled the number of account that can sign up at any one time to manage the load. One you allowed to sign in you select your character and then your can got to setting and change each of the 3 privacy setting to block every one. You then change characters and do it all over again, once the characters on the account are done you log off and change accounts. There is no one master opt out, so as CCP release new Features to enhance your social experience or they decide to do a facebook and try to make the security controls to complex to allow you to protect your data, you will have to do it all over again. Looking at evegate gate its already hit the max number accounts it will currently support. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congratulated by carebears for the actions.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2010.05.26 23:07:00 - [146] Yes, I just used it to set all info sharing to "OFF" Also: New corp logos suck. Bye
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.26 23:19:00 - [147] Quote: Talking about crawlers and spiders is bull...'droppings' as well... did you set them to +10? Yes? well tough luck, apparently the one you've trusted enough to give +10 standings wasn't too trustworthy after all. Your lack of consideration for the principle of priority of customers privacy (however minimal the effects are) is appalling. Voted Bush? You could not even use some facilities without +10 standings. It was also quite hard to even see those outside the old address book who got standings in years of playing. When one goes from multiple 0.0 to low sec corps and back - and on several accounts - the amount of "garbage" builds up very fast. People already got an hard bone with their supercaps getting in probe space, it was not necessary to also broadcast their out of corp-yet-ble JF / mission alts at the same time. Furthermore, while I reset standings before the expansion, there are thousands out in the military or who just are not forum trolls who had no chance to even know about this genius opt out. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2010.05.26 23:29:00 - [148] Originally by: Ella C'Tronix I can see zero downsides to not having to wait 10 minutes for the slow ass client to login just to check your evemail. From Concord and Pend. Goody. -- Nah, that's just my Asperger's kickin' in.
Revii Lagoon	Posted - 2010.05.27 00:01:00 - [149] I'm a bit curious as to why EVE Gate was implemented in the first place. From the replies of this thread, most people want to opt-out, including myself. In its current state all you can do is check mail, calender, and edit your spacebook status. I also hate how the new default browser page is EVE gate, I liked the old news site a whole lot better because why would you even want to log onto EVE gate if you were already logged onto EVE.

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