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suicide ganks are growing more and more in high sec!

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Usagi Tsukino Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:05:00 - [61] Edited by: Usagi Tsukino on 26/05/2010 00:08:46 Originally by: Hon Dao The problem is not the suicide ganking itself, and I see no problem with the tactic being used as a fair part of EVE gameplay. The problem occurs where trial accounts are being abused, in order to get around consequences that would normally be incurred by a character when suicide ganking, namely loss of security status. Trials are supposed to have limitations compared to full accounts, otherwise what is the point in them being free when compared to a full account? There should be no advantages to using a trial account for any purpose, especially advantages that arise from the trial's disposable nature. While it may be possible to repeatedly delete an alt on a full account for the same purpose, the loss of training time on your main, in order to have the alt pilot a suitable ship, would be the consequence. Recycling alts to avoid sec status penalties is an exploit IIRC. If you know of someone who did it, you should petition. Originally by: Dratic The costs of suicide ganking at the moment are minimal mostly due to cost of modules. After patch having to pay 30% of premium insurance will have more of an impact. The hull cost won't be practically free any more. Gankers will have to be more selective in order to guarantee expected payout + pay the costs. Its more risk vs reward which is more akin to what eve is about. My RL cheapness actually bled over into my EVE character and I have let several viable targets pass me by because even though I could have made a profit... It just wasn't enough to justify what I spent on the ship, even though 95% of the ship would have been reimbursed with insurance. __________ Multispectacular.
Epicbeardman	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:06:00 - [62] Originally by: cBOLTSON There is no griefing in EVE, there is only players that allow themselves to be griefed. I've been suicide ganked once, I lost very little and took a calculated risk. But it was still a risk and you win some and lose some. No big deal, in fact it was a fun experience. The problem is that it's so easy, and costs so little, I've actually been ganked missioning in a CNR with what couldn't have been much more than 20 mil worth of items on it.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:28:00 - [63] Originally by: Hon Dao The problem occurs where trial accounts are being abused, in order to get around consequences that would normally be incurred by a character when suicide ganking, namely loss of security status. That qualifies as an exploit. Personally, if I got suicide ganked by a bunch of 3 week old characters, I'd petition. No way a whole bunch of new players teamed up and just randomly decided to do that.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:28:00 - [64] Originally by: Epicbeardman Originally by: cBOLTSON There is no griefing in EVE, there is only players that allow themselves to be griefed. I've been suicide ganked once, I lost very little and took a calculated risk. But it was still a risk and you win some and lose some. No big deal, in fact it was a fun experience. The problem is that it's so easy, and costs so little, I've actually been ganked missioning in a CNR with what couldn't have been much more than 20 mil worth of items on it. It is only easy because people make it easy.
Olleybear I R' Carebear	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:33:00 - [65] Originally by: Zartrader ...problem with modern MMORPG's is they tell players if anything happens to them its not their fault... ...whole of society seems to be heading that way, blame someone else.... ...Everyone's a winner, even the idiots and the lazy... There is a lot of truth said in this persons post. Commendable. To the OP: Eve lets you use your brain to get even. For instance. Wait for suicide gankers to gank a hauler, warp in your hauler, grab as much expensive loot as you can, hear suicide gankers call you naughty names in local, laughter ensues, give loot back to the victim or keep it for yourself. One person doing this can make suicide ganking unaffordable to the suicide gankers. Also, the amount of hate directed towards the OP is just mind boggling... <<< Just because your pet likes you, that does not mean you are a good person. >>>
Hon Dao	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:42:00 - [66] Edited by: Hon Dao on 26/05/2010 00:43:05 Originally by: Usagi Tsukino Recycling alts to avoid sec status penalties is an exploit IIRC. If you know of someone who did it, you should petition. and (regarding trials), Originally by: Emperor Cheney That qualifies as an exploit. Personally, if I got suicide ganked by a bunch of 3 week old characters, I'd petition. No way a whole bunch of new players teamed up and just randomly decided to do that. And there lies the problem. While it may be an exploit, it relies on both a person to make a petition, and a GM to follow up on the petition, making it require a whole lot more work to keep under control, than say simply making it so you can't delete alts from an account more than once a month (a few hours wait to confirm deletion is not going to do much at all, as a character can still be used for several 'ganks' a day), or limiting the number of trials that an IP is capable of making (and people are using it to make use of serial trial accounts to play EVE as a free MMO too). If it is easier to exploit than it is to counter the exploit, then people will take advantage of that fact, and trials have considerably more exploit potential than alts when it comes to suicide ganking.
Eva Wolfe	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:43:00 - [67] Originally by: Olleybear Originally by: Zartrader ...problem with modern MMORPG's is they tell players if anything happens to them its not their fault... ...whole of society seems to be heading that way, blame someone else.... ...Everyone's a winner, even the idiots and the lazy... There is a lot of truth said in this persons post. Commendable. To the OP: Eve lets you use your brain to get even. For instance. Wait for suicide gankers to gank a hauler, warp in your hauler, grab as much expensive loot as you can, hear suicide gankers call you naughty names in local, laughter ensues, give loot back to the victim or keep it for yourself. One person doing this can make suicide ganking unaffordable to the suicide gankers. Also, the amount of hate directed towards the OP is just mind boggling... Only thing is ships are cheap, insurance payout, characters are easy to make and their mains have plenty of isk. Some just do it for the hell of it.
Kharylien Gallente Masked Rider Project	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:50:00 - [68] I sometimes think people misunderstand the purpose of autopilot. Autopilot is not for "I am transporting a valuable cargo in a fragile ship!" Autopilot is for when you have twenty jumps of highsec to cover and you're not carrying cargo at all. I regularly travel between Verge Vendor and the Metropolis in a shuttle - I've never been ganked, once. I confess I once transported over 200 million isk of cargo on autopilot, to Jita, from Verge Vendor. However, I did that in a passive-tanked Dominix. Protip: A Dominix tanks out harder than an Iteron. I don't know if anyone scanned my cargo, but I do know no-one attacked me. Match your transport to your cargo or risk losing it. Why is that so hard to understand?
Cyrus Deacon	Posted - 2010.05.26 01:31:00 - [69] Someone said if your in a freighter and your carrying more than 2.5b than you should not use auopilot? What kind of suicide gank would it take to pop a freighter? They have a pretty decent hull.
Brusanan Beware of Carp General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.26 01:37:00 - [70] Originally by: Cyrus Deacon Someone said if your in a freighter and your carrying more than 2.5b than you should not use auopilot? What kind of suicide gank would it take to pop a freighter? They have a pretty decent hull. 15 - 20 battleships. And it happens fairly often. ______

Dodgy Past Amarr Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.05.26 09:28:00 - [71] Edited by: Dodgy Past on 26/05/2010 09:28:24 Originally by: Jo Ka I've not experienced much of it myself but I see it going on quite a bit. Only times I was suicided they failed both times. How about giving them some sensible advice instead of reinforcing ideas that you know yourself from experience are false? I've also had issues with suicide attempts and when I found that I wanted to carry more expensive stuff more often I upgraded to a T2 Transport, and then later onto a freighter. Funnily enough I have yet to have an attempt on my T2 transport or freighter, though I can see avoiding Niarja may well be another sensible thing to start doing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.26 09:28:00 - [72] Originally by: Olleybear To the OP: Eve lets you use your brain to get even. For instance. Wait for suicide gankers to gank a hauler, warp in your hauler, grab as much expensive loot as you can, hear suicide gankers call you naughty names in local, laughter ensues, give loot back to the victim or keep it for yourself. Incidentally, this is how I've come to the conclusion that suicide ganking is far too rare. I engage in this kind of meta-theft whenever I'm in that annoying place mid-way between being bored and having enough energy to go out and do something, and it's increasingly rare that it ever results in anything. The ganks are just too few and far between. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ferdio Ricotez Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.26 09:38:00 - [73] Originally by: Dograzor More so, if you are looking for a perfectly legal way to suicide gank people in the way you propose, you can simply make alt, send him some money, get his frig some decent guns, get 20 other people to do it too, and do a onetime gank, and delete the toon. Actually, this is considered an exploit by CCP, and can get your account banned. You are free to create as many suicide gank toons as you want, but if you delete them to free up space for new ones, it's an exploit. ----- Gallente flying Minmatar - A Podlog
nafiy gnaw	Posted - 2010.05.26 09:50:00 - [74] "cargo ships are not more safe to travel with autopilot in high sec!!!" Hint: you are NOT supposed to travel afk with expensive cargo. Its your own fault if you do and get ganked.
Heimdallofasgard Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:03:00 - [75] Quote: The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked. ^THIS^ /thread //same with people who cry at ninja salvagers, can flippers and gatecamps ------- I LIKE DEHYDRATED WATERRRR
Eva Wolfe	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:07:00 - [76] I've seen someone suicide a mining barge before that was mining veldspar, it's obviously not for kill count and it certainly was not for isk as it would have been hardly worth it, so it must just be purely and simply for kick. Flew through a gate the other night at Hek, 10 players one side and 11 the other are gates that attractive that they sit and stare dreamily at the gate like in some sort of trance? There was a battleship just outside the main station that was emiting some glow, were they scanning? 6 small ships sat outside a starter station with 3 cans, just sat there for hours. Seems extremely boring, what where they up to?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:11:00 - [77] Originally by: Lightmans Edited by: Lightmans on 25/05/2010 20:36:34 1.is this known? Well is it known? How many ganks are happening now compared to, say, a month a go? 3 months? What are the numbers. Where did you get them from? Show us the data.
Snabbik Shigen	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:36:00 - [78] The changes to insurance will at least make it more expensive to suicide-gank in hi-sec. Which is really all that most players want as it was getting simply too cheap (other then the security hit) for people to go out and gank solely for the LOL-factor. A lot of the times, due to insurance, the cost of losing a ship in a gank could be under 1M ISK (even the battleship hulls). With the adjustment to insurance payouts, the LOL-gankers won't be able to get their kicks for free. Some will still do it, but it won't be as widespread. They definitely won't be turning a profit. Which is fine, my main objection is that they were able to do it without loss of ISK. The for-profit gankers will simply need to target higher value targets in order to break even. Which takes us back closer to the way it was two years ago when it wasn't as widespread. Instead of only spending maybe 5M per battleship used to gank a freighter, now they'll be spending 20-30M per battleship. Targeted ganks will still happen, but turning a profit will require better intel. If CCP really wanted to nerf ganking they would: - increase the security hit in higher security space, three strikes and you're stuck in lo-sec for a while - make you criminally flagged for a full hour instead of only 15 minutes - add PG/CPU and another mid-slot to the mining barges so that they could actually fit a tank - add mid/low slots to freighters so that you could fit for either cargo or tank (similar to the trade-offs available to the orca), which would require gankers to better scout the target - cut the insurance payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail to 50% of normal payout - improve CONCORD response times in 0.8-1.0 space Changing the insurance system is an attempt to nudge the system back to a more even risk vs reward balance.
Mova B	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:40:00 - [79] gankers will gank tearbears will shed tears. Such is eve. suicide ganking is just eves form of natural selection. I think I got ganked once back in my nub days. After that I invested in a viator and have never had a problem since. People just need to work out ways around their problems instead of just crying about them >.<
Eva Wolfe	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:45:00 - [80] Originally by: Snabbik Shigen - cut the insurance payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail to 50% of normal payout There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid.

Rothrin	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:51:00 - [81] Originally by: Eva Wolfe Originally by: Snabbik Shigen - cut the insurance payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail to 50% of normal payout There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. I would like to see gankers have a greater pen, but i worry this might efect over inquisitve new players more then gankers in it for the lols
Sir Suicidealt	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:02:00 - [82] Originally by: Mova B gankers will gank tearbears will shed tears. Such is eve. suicide ganking is just eves form of natural selection. I think I got ganked once back in my nub days. After that I invested in a viator and have never had a problem since. People just need to work out ways around their problems instead of just crying about them >.< What Mova B said, use a bit of grey matter rather than just Boo Hooing about it
Eva Wolfe	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:18:00 - [83] Originally by: Rothrin Originally by: Eva Wolfe Originally by: Snabbik Shigen - cut the insurance payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail to 50% of normal payout There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. I would like to see gankers have a greater pen, but i worry this might efect over inquisitve new players more then gankers in it for the lols New players are warned before they open fire on something that would cause CONCORD to react to them. If someone warns you not to play with fire and you do and get burnt, then you have no one to blame but yourself.
Alarci	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:22:00 - [84] Originally by: titanalt I'm guessing your one of these, your tears are delicious. LOL 1 LOL 2 LOL 3 More to come those kills just so lame either you are a griefer of the worse kind or got waaayy to much money and time on your hand and to bored to do something constructive, anyway only shows that you are good at lilling a unarmed ship congratz you such a acepilot
kveldulfson The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:23:00 - [85] Originally by: Eva Wolfe Originally by: Snabbik Shigen - cut the insurance payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail to 50% of normal payout There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. This wont stop suicide ganking which think is lame and I would not engage in it but it would increase the risk and CCP are always saying that Eve is a hard place and it would improve the imersion aspect as in reality the governments / ruling bodies would stamp on insurance companies for supporting organised crime. So I would applaud CCP removing the insurance payouts. But it wont ever stop suicide ganking so work around it!
Lone Lynx	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:29:00 - [86] Originally by: Eva Wolfe There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. Absolutely right. More of it: Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship loses history, like in RL. Lose ships often and your insurance costs will soar. Keep your insured ships safe and your insurance costs will begin to drop, and ultimately even go to zero.
Pakled Jones	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:34:00 - [87] Originally by: Lightmans (so lets remove the autopilot feature) Don't mess with autopilot. I use it at times... like when I'm checking on the market flying from region to region. Just because it doens't work for what you want it to, doesn't mean it has no value to the rest of us.
Peter Powers FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:42:00 - [88] Originally by: Jo Ka I guess people have different ideas about what griefing is then. Like I said earlier a lot think it is griefing it is the number one thing I hear about this game whilst in other MMOs. and thats why im playing eve, because this is the one MMO where getting killed hurts, and where killing makes others go emo on you. what you call griefing i call major game element of eve. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
I CheckPrices	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:46:00 - [89] Originally by: couger malthas Stop Crying on the threads about your lack of balls I think you should stop crying about people crying coz your crying about people crying is making me wanna cry. ps.there's too much crying in this thread.
Heimdallofasgard Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:53:00 - [90] Edited by: Heimdallofasgard on 26/05/2010 11:54:33 Rant thread is ranty... honestly... don't complain about suicide ganking as something that needs to be resolved... it's a gameplay dynamic... as is can flipping and ninja salvaging... I don't complain about any of these three mechanics as doing so would be petty and throwing toys out the pram... learn to adapt for these mechanics and you'll be fine... imagine driving your car around a city... everyone can see what you have inside your car through the windows... so if you've got something realy expensive you wanna take across town... you'll either put it in a box first... chuck it in the trunk so no-one can see it... courier it to yourself and the couriers insurance covers it... or you can use a car with no windows... or a really quick car that no-one can see inside... what you don't do... is drive across town with the really expensive item in a really flash car, roof down, while item is resting on the backseat... you adapt in life so adapt in game you bunch of whiney f***s ------- I LIKE DEHYDRATED WATERRRR



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