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suicide ganks are growing more and more in high sec!

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Lightmans Caldari Mia Corp	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:35:00 - [1] Edited by: Lightmans on 25/05/2010 20:36:34 1.is this known? 2.what can we do against that? cargo ships are not more safe to travel with autopilot in high sec!!! 3.why we call it then high sec? -> i thought ccp solved the problem with -> (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Suicide_gank) Quote: Suicide ganking was a popular strategy until recently, both with GoonSwarm's JihadSwarm campaign and with several groups of pirates who did it for profit. However, recent changes in game mechanics - faster Concord response time and higher security status losses for criminal actions in highsec - have largely eliminated the practice. It's still possible, and still practiced occasionally, but is much less common than it used to be. Attention returned to the mass suicide gank with Hulkageddon. 4.is there already a big post here in the forum? if yes where? more and more people are hacking accounts or are crating throw away accounts for that B*st
David Grogan Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:39:00 - [2] Edited by: David Grogan on 25/05/2010 20:40:45 troll 0/10 rules of eve 1. fly only what u can afford to lose 2. dont fly afk 3. dont fly fail fit haulers loaded with lots of high value cargo. 4. if u need to move expensive stuff such as bpo's use a frigate preferably a cloaky one. 5. high sec is "safer space" but not meant to be impossible to be killed so quit your trolling SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:42:00 - [3] Originally by: Lightmans 1.is this known? No. How do you know this? Quote: 2.what can we do against that? cargo ships are not more safe to travel with autopilot in high sec!!! Don't use autopilot. Quote: 3.why we call it then high sec? Because the security is higher there than elsewhere. Quote: I thought ccp solved the problem with Quote: Suicide ganking was a popular strategy until recently, both with GoonSwarm's JihadSwarm campaign and with several groups of pirates who did it for profit. However, recent changes in game mechanics - faster Concord response time and higher security status losses for criminal actions in highsec - have largely eliminated the practice. It's still possible, and still practiced occasionally, but is much less common than it used to be. What makes it a problem and why should it be solved? Oh, and it did massively reduce the practice ù that's why they're so far and few between these days. Quote: 4.is there already a big post here in the forum? if yes where? Tons. Quote: more and more people are hacking accounts or are crating throw away accounts for that B*st You have proof of this, I assume? Oh, and finally: what makes it BS? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:43:00 - [4] 1: High security is not safe it is SAFER. 2: Numptys who autopilot with phat lewts in their cargo deserve to die for their stupidity 3: Insurance is being fixed so suicide ganks will likely decrease due to reduced profitability of ganking anything and everything that cruises by on AP. -------------------------------------------- Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
Brusanan Beware of Carp General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:45:00 - [5] Tank your hauler, and don't carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in it. The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked. ______
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Lightmans 1.is this known? Not only known, it's INTENTIONAL. Quote: 2.what can we do against that? cargo ships are not more safe to travel with autopilot in high sec!!! They were never intended to do that. Suicide-ganking acts as a "valve" to PREVENT transporting large quantities of valuables cheaply across larger distances. Quote: 3.why we call it then high sec? Because it is HIGH SECURITY, not ABSOLUTE/TOTAL SECURITY. Quote: i thought ccp solved the problem with Yes, they made it more "expensive" to suicide-gank. This is not new, and not the first time it happened. Quote: 4.is there already a big post here in the forum? if yes where? This kind of thread pops up at least once a month. We usually laugh at them too. Quote: more and more people are hacking accounts or are crating throw away accounts for that B*st What's that got to do with anything ? _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Musical Fist Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:49:00 - [7] I fly through Uedamma and Niajara on a weekly basis for the past year in a crappy badger and I have never been suicide ganked. My cargo is between 100mil to 2bil too and pretty easy to take. I have only had 1 suicide gank attempt (which took half of my shield lol pwned) In short it is VERY easy to pass through 0.5 or other suicide ganking rich places. Even if I did get ganked I wouldnt rage I am all for piracy and tear manufacturing and think suicide gankers should get buffed.
Lightmans Caldari Mia Corp	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:52:00 - [8] I think high sec should be safe place to travel and to do trading stuff etc. Look, i now the idea and the game mechanics make suiciced ganking interestering. But you have also to see the other side of this: You will not more use again autopilot in the next future, because you have also sucide pirates in high sec. (so lets remove the autopilot feature) And i now that also you guys are using this comfortable feature. Someday they will catch you also with a expensive cargo, because you can blabla and write a lot against this post and afk autopilot. But we now you also use it. Also this people are creating a lot of trial accounts and are getting all virutal char names for them, and its more and more difficult to create a char with a new nice name, because somebody else taken it. They also cheating the number of real online users in eve on tq. We think this using more and more to exploit the game and players.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:54:00 - [9] Originally by: Lightmans I think high sec should be safe place to travel and to do trading stuff etc. Highsec is SAFER compared to other places, not (completely) SAFE. It was never intended to be completely safe, and it will never be completely safe. Making it 100% safe IS THE MOST IDIOTIC THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY DO, and if you're proposing that, you have much to learn about EVE. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Lightmans I think high sec should be safe place to travel and to do trading stuff etc. Well aren't we all glad that its CCP who makes the decisions and not you then... You seem to not understand EVE, maybe it is not the game for you. See EVE is pretty much built around the core concept of NON CONSENSUAL PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER COMBAT. What this means is that anywhere, and at any time, you can attack or be attacked by another player. If you cannot handle that, maybe you should play a game without PvP. -------------------------------------------- Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...

dankness420	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:58:00 - [11] I have to fit a passive tank on my hauler??? WHAT HAS THIS WORLD COME TO :(
Brusanan Beware of Carp General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:58:00 - [12] Originally by: Lightmans I think high sec should be safe place to travel and to do trading stuff etc. Well you think wrong. If you want an area where you are perfectly safe, go play some other game. Quote: But you have also to see the other side of this: You will not more use again autopilot in the next future, because you have also sucide pirates in high sec. (so lets remove the autopilot feature) And i now that also you guys are using this comfortable feature. Someday they will catch you also with a expensive cargo, because you can blabla and write a lot against this post and afk autopilot. But we now you also use it. No, I will never be caught hauling expensive cargo on autopilot. Quote: Also this people are creating a lot of trial accounts and are getting all virutal char names for them, and its more and more difficult to create a char with a new nice name, because somebody else taken it. They also cheating the number of real online users in eve on tq. We think this using more and more to exploit the game and players. There are no rules against alts. In fact, CCP encourages it by only allowing you to train one toon at a time on each account. All of your points come down to you not liking Eve. So go play a different game. ______
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:01:00 - [13] You might also look at the dev blog on the changes about to happen in insurance pay outs, as it may be a modest moderating factor for suicide ganks. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Ferdio Ricotez Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:03:00 - [14] It's very simple: make sure your ship can survive long enough to allow CONCORD to warp in. That's the trick. So: -Give your haulers some kind of tank. -Don't fit your Hulk for maximum yield, but install a few tank modules instead. It's not like you need to fight back or run, like in lowsec. Just surviving long enough till CONCORD comes to the rescue will do. ----- Gallente flying Minmatar - A Podlog
Mistress Darkside	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Lightmans I fail!! Coming from someone who fits a heavy cap booster to their Chimera, you need to go ask for help in the Ships and Modules forum before whining like a little girl with pigtails about being an epic example of failure! Not everyone is as incompetent as you at internet spaceships!!!!!!
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:11:00 - [16] The fact is that you pretty much can't fly anywhere in HS these days without taking the risk of a gank. Every time I fly somewhere in my Iteron Mk5 I get targeted and scanned. This, combined with the Concord blobs I see quite often, I'd say suicide ganking is getting to be very common indeed. Tyrannis won't change the situtation. The insurance rebalance will still keep the costs of losing a T1 ship quite low. Personally I think that taking away insurance for losses to Concord would be fair. Obviously that will not remove suicide ganking. It will just raise the bar on how valuable the cargo has to be before suiciding it becomes profitable.
David Grogan Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:14:00 - [17] personally i think u should get flagged from scanning my cargo hold.... its an invasion of my privacy. only customs should have the right to scan my hold... anyone else doing it i consider it a hostile action. SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P
Illwill Bill House of Tempers	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:20:00 - [18] I support this, and salute my hisec pirate bretheren. o7 Additionally, it really infuriates me, when people use some pointless rant about signatures as a sig.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:23:00 - [19] Originally by: Nareg Maxence The fact is that you pretty much can't fly anywhere in HS these days without taking the risk of a gank. Good. Then things are finally returning to normal. Quote: Every time I fly somewhere in my Iteron Mk5 I get targeted and scanned. àpffà Amateurs. Quote: This, combined with the Concord blobs I see quite often, I'd say suicide ganking is getting to be very common indeed. Meh. You can sit outside of Jita for hours and not see a single shot fired. Perhaps the odd clash between war targets, but nothing fun. Counter-fact: it's far too easy and safe to travel in highsec right now. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
titanalt	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:28:00 - [20] I'm guessing your one of these, your tears are delicious. LOL 1 LOL 2 LOL 3 More to come

Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Nareg Maxence Every time I fly somewhere in my Iteron Mk5 I get targeted and scanned. àpffà Amateurs. You can say that again ! That's what you have passive targeters for ! Giving your victim advance warning is so lame _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Lightmans Edited by: Lightmans on 25/05/2010 20:36:34 1.is this known? 2.what can we do against that? 1) Yes, and people abuse it now more so than ever in Dominion's final hours 2) Give me your stuff. That will stop 'em. Apply \| CBSN Lounge
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:41:00 - [23] be more adapatible ingame selectigon is rife Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Musical Fist I fly through Uedamma and Niajara on a weekly basis for the past year in a crappy badger and I have never been suicide ganked. My cargo is between 100mil to 2bil too and pretty easy to take. I have only had 1 suicide gank attempt (which took half of my shield lol pwned) In short it is VERY easy to pass through 0.5 or other suicide ganking rich places. Even if I did get ganked I wouldnt rage I am all for piracy and tear manufacturing and think suicide gankers should get buffed. This is just an open invitation to all suiciders.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:47:00 - [25] Have I fallen into the wrong year? Either I have missed something or the Op has missed the patch notes and extensive discussions the last few months.
Ran Khanon Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Lightmans Also this people are creating a lot of trial accounts and are getting all virutal char names for them, and its more and more difficult to create a char with a new nice name, because somebody else taken it. Wow ... if I am honest ... I never thought of it that way. This changes things indeed. Thinking up new char names is a core gameplay element to me and the amount of names possible might be in the billions, it is still a finite number. Let's get rid of security penalties altogether so those gankers don't need to make new characters any more. Help us to make parrots game related today!
Misstress Iteron	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Nareg Maxence The fact is that you pretty much can't fly anywhere in HS these days without taking the risk of a gank. Every time I fly somewhere in my Iteron Mk5 I get targeted and scanned. This, combined with the Concord blobs I see quite often, I'd say suicide ganking is getting to be very common indeed. Tyrannis won't change the situtation. The insurance rebalance will still keep the costs of losing a T1 ship quite low. Personally I think that taking away insurance for losses to Concord would be fair. Obviously that will not remove suicide ganking. It will just raise the bar on how valuable the cargo has to be before suiciding it becomes profitable. I kill ships in my Iteron V.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Nareg Maxence The fact is that you pretty much can't fly anywhere in HS these days without taking the risk of a gank. Every time I fly somewhere in my Iteron Mk5 I get targeted and scanned. This, combined with the Concord blobs I see quite often, I'd say suicide ganking is getting to be very common indeed. Tyrannis won't change the situtation. The insurance rebalance will still keep the costs of losing a T1 ship quite low. Personally I think that taking away insurance for losses to Concord would be fair. Obviously that will not remove suicide ganking. It will just raise the bar on how valuable the cargo has to be before suiciding it becomes profitable. Ships are too cheap right now and Insurance more than covers the cost. Both have been dealt with in the patch (assuming CCP get their figures right which is another matter) The reason why it's happening so much now is people are dumping the T1 ships they made due to the patch coming up. If anyone is hauling right now or in the last few days they should have worked out that was going to happen. If they did not then tough luck, they should think more.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2010.05.25 21:56:00 - [29] Edited by: Sader Rykane on 25/05/2010 21:56:42 I've never once lost anything of value in a high sec suicide gank. And the only time I was EVER sucide ganked was my alt in a retriever who got discoed by a -10 in a domi (probably because insurance was expiring). After looting and salvaging the disco domi I actually lost only 1 million isk. However there are many ways to avoid PAINFUL suicide ganks. 1) DON'T TRANSPORT EXPENSIVE ** IN NON-ORCA HAULERS 2) DON'T TRANSPORT EXPENSIVE IN NON-ORCA HAULERS 3) DON'T TRANSPORT EXPENSIVE ** IN NON-ORCA HAULERS 4) DO NOT TRANSPORT ANYTHING WORTH MORE THEN 2-2.5 BILLION ISK IN A FREIGHTER. 5) DO NOT PUT EXPENSIVE MODS ON A SHIP THAT CANNOT ATLEAST TANK THE VALUE OF THE BS NEEDED TO DESTROY IT. 6) CAPSLOCK MAKES YOU COOL. Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
Dograzor The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:05:00 - [30] Suicide ganks don't happen an awful lot. If one happens, and if it is successful, the part where it is successful is in 95% due to your own fault, and that for the following reasons: - If you sit afk in a miner, or sit slowboating with autopiloting on, you are have a way higher potential risk to get ganked. The easiest solution is just to sit on your chair and fly manually, which you should be doing when flying quite expensive ships. As an example, we tried to gank a hulk once with a 5-6 man destroyer fleet in a 0.5 system, and we got him to 25% armor before we all got killed. We did however get a killmail, since the hulk died 2 minutes later after we tried to gank him due to 2 small rats attacking him while he is afk. So simply, don't afk, you can usually survive a fight when you're behind keyboard. - If you are behind keyboard, and are still getting ganked, i do kindly advice you to spend some time in training some defensive/support skills & get some basic shield tank on your indy just so you have an increased survivability. Quote: more and more people are hacking accounts or are crating throw away accounts for that B*st Now that, kind Sir, is blatant speculation. I can very well assure you that suicide ganking is the last reason on earth why any account would get hacked. More so, if you are looking for a perfectly legal way to suicide gank people in the way you propose, you can simply make alt, send him some money, get his frig some decent guns, get 20 other people to do it too, and do a onetime gank, and delete the toon. But this is a big waste of time, in the time you spend setting up a suicide gank you can already have scanned down a target in lowsec & get a decent kill. And no, suicide ganking won't disappear, it is a perfectly legitimate way to kill things. But it can be easily avoided, as long as you keep your eyes open. - "We don't gank, we just apply force in a disproportionate manner during an uneven tactical combat situation to maximize revenue and increase shareholder value"

Louiss Kimplar	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:08:00 - [31] I have always wondered how you are any safe not AFK then you are AFK in a freighter. Can freighters not be warp scrambeled or disrupted? If they can be prevented from warping then wouldn't they be dead meat whether you are AFK or not if the enemy wanted to kill you? I've just always wondered that. I don't know much about freighter obviously :-)
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:08:00 - [32] Originally by: titanalt I'm guessing your one of these, your tears are delicious. LOL 1 LOL 2 LOL 3 More to come Two things: 1) Put the epeen away. Gankers (lamers) are not allowed to have one. Nothing to see here folks. Move along. 2) I will happily buy any JFs you can manage to get in one piece for the values shown in the KMs. 2B fitted lol. I'll pay 2B after you strip and repackage them. Call me! Mr Epeen
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:11:00 - [33] Losing a hauler to suicide ganking is nature's way of telling you that you weren't paranoid enough with your cargo shipment. [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:28:00 - [34] Edited by: Jo Ka on 25/05/2010 22:31:22 Edited by: Jo Ka on 25/05/2010 22:29:24 Originally by: Lightmans Edited by: Lightmans on 25/05/2010 20:36:34 1.is this known? 2.what can we do against that? cargo ships are not more safe to travel with autopilot in high sec!!! 3.why we call it then high sec? -> i thought ccp solved the problem with -> (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Suicide_gank) Quote: Suicide ganking was a popular strategy until recently, both with GoonSwarm's JihadSwarm campaign and with several groups of pirates who did it for profit. However, recent changes in game mechanics - faster Concord response time and higher security status losses for criminal actions in highsec - have largely eliminated the practice. It's still possible, and still practiced occasionally, but is much less common than it used to be. Attention returned to the mass suicide gank with Hulkageddon. 4.is there already a big post here in the forum? if yes where? more and more people are hacking accounts or are crating throw away accounts for that B*st I've been in and out of the game a few times since 2005 and each time I've come back it's got worse. More organised suicide gangs than every before, more people gate crashing and stealing loot from missions. In other MMOs I've played in and heard this game mentioned the number one thing I hear about is the griefing that goes on in high-sec. I was watching one operation in high-sec tonight they were organised ready to pounce on some juicy target. And I thought what's the point this game is not really fun anymore. The griefing that goes on in high-sec has completely ruined it. And as CCP are not willing to do anything about it, I am so after the patch I'll be deleting my remaining characters and then close my last account. And with the state of the game as it is now I'll certainly have no regrets in leaving.
andeira	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:34:00 - [35] I can has your stuff?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:34:00 - [36] Edited by: Tippia on 25/05/2010 22:35:41 Originally by: Jo Ka And as CCP are not willing to do anything about it, I am so after the patch I'll be deleting my remaining characters and then close my last account. And with the state of the game as it is now I'll certainly have no regrets in leaving. Your stuff. My hangar. Make it happen. edit: DAMN YOU ANDEIRA! ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:36:00 - [37] Originally by: Jo Ka I've been in and out of the game a few times since 2005 and each time I've come back it's got worse. More organised suicide gangs than every before, more people gate crashing and stealing loot from missions. In other MMOs I've played in and heard this game mentioned the number one thing I hear about is the griefing that goes on in high-sec. I was watching one operation in high-sec tonight they were organised ready to pounce on some juicy target. And I thought what's the point this game is not really fun anymore. The griefing that goes on in high-sec has completely ruined it. And as CCP are not willing to do anything about it, I am so after the patch I'll be deleting my remaining characters and then close my last account. And with the state of the game as it is now I'll certainly have no regrets in leaving. Its not CCPs job to hold your hand. In this game, you have to protect yourself and that is not at all that hard to do in high sec.
dankness420	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:39:00 - [38] Originally by: Jo Ka Edited by: Jo Ka on 25/05/2010 22:31:22 Edited by: Jo Ka on 25/05/2010 22:29:24 And as CCP are not willing to do anything about it, I am so after the patch I'll be deleting my remaining characters and then close my last account. And with the state of the game as it is now I'll certainly have no regrets in leaving. Go back to wow, pansey!
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:39:00 - [39] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Jo Ka I've been in and out of the game a few times since 2005 and each time I've come back it's got worse. More organised suicide gangs than every before, more people gate crashing and stealing loot from missions. In other MMOs I've played in and heard this game mentioned the number one thing I hear about is the griefing that goes on in high-sec. I was watching one operation in high-sec tonight they were organised ready to pounce on some juicy target. And I thought what's the point this game is not really fun anymore. The griefing that goes on in high-sec has completely ruined it. And as CCP are not willing to do anything about it, I am so after the patch I'll be deleting my remaining characters and then close my last account. And with the state of the game as it is now I'll certainly have no regrets in leaving. Its not CCPs job to hold your hand. In this game, you have to protect yourself and that is not at all that hard to do in high sec. I'm not interested in anyone holding my hand, just as I'm not interested in staying in a game that promotes a griefing mentallity that has been steadily growing.
cBOLTSON Caldari Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:42:00 - [40] YOU DIRTY SUICIDE GANKERS!!! [RAGE YARRRRR] Please pleaseeeeee REDOUBLE your efforts!!! These tears are delicious! muhahaaaa HIGH SEC - High Security. Not TOTAL 100% SAFE security. Like in real life you are never 100% safe. This is an inherant fact of the Universe. Most people who play eve like it this way and so do I. And yes I HAVE been suicide ganked before. Well you learn from your mistakes dont you. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:43:00 - [41] Originally by: Jo Ka Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Jo Ka I've been in and out of the game a few times since 2005 and each time I've come back it's got worse. More organised suicide gangs than every before, more people gate crashing and stealing loot from missions. In other MMOs I've played in and heard this game mentioned the number one thing I hear about is the griefing that goes on in high-sec. I was watching one operation in high-sec tonight they were organised ready to pounce on some juicy target. And I thought what's the point this game is not really fun anymore. The griefing that goes on in high-sec has completely ruined it. And as CCP are not willing to do anything about it, I am so after the patch I'll be deleting my remaining characters and then close my last account. And with the state of the game as it is now I'll certainly have no regrets in leaving. Its not CCPs job to hold your hand. In this game, you have to protect yourself and that is not at all that hard to do in high sec. I'm not interested in anyone holding my hand, just as I'm not interested in staying in a game that promotes a griefing mentallity that has been steadily growing. Piracy is not griefing. Griefing would be can baiting nubs outsided a starting station which is a bannable offence.
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:46:00 - [42] Originally by: dankness420 Originally by: Jo Ka Edited by: Jo Ka on 25/05/2010 22:31:22 Edited by: Jo Ka on 25/05/2010 22:29:24 And as CCP are not willing to do anything about it, I am so after the patch I'll be deleting my remaining characters and then close my last account. And with the state of the game as it is now I'll certainly have no regrets in leaving. Go back to wow, pansey! Lol, there are other MMOs other than Eve and WoW, maybe you should get out more.
cBOLTSON Caldari Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:51:00 - [43] Originally by: Jo Ka Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Jo Ka I've been in and out of the game a few times since 2005 and each time I've come back it's got worse. More organised suicide gangs than every before, more people gate crashing and stealing loot from missions. In other MMOs I've played in and heard this game mentioned the number one thing I hear about is the griefing that goes on in high-sec. I was watching one operation in high-sec tonight they were organised ready to pounce on some juicy target. And I thought what's the point this game is not really fun anymore. The griefing that goes on in high-sec has completely ruined it. And as CCP are not willing to do anything about it, I am so after the patch I'll be deleting my remaining characters and then close my last account. And with the state of the game as it is now I'll certainly have no regrets in leaving. Its not CCPs job to hold your hand. In this game, you have to protect yourself and that is not at all that hard to do in high sec. I'm not interested in anyone holding my hand, just as I'm not interested in staying in a game that promotes a griefing mentallity that has been steadily growing. Also I beg to differ. Its not griefing. Its people taking advantage of idiots in a PC GAME. Remeber that it is just a game. Hell you wouldnt play a game of Battlefield or Call Of Duty and then cry when someone gets a headshot on you.... o_0 Now baiting brand new noobie players - that is griefing in my opinion. Thats taking advantage of people who havent had time to understand game mechanics.
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:56:00 - [44] Originally by: cBOLTSON Also I beg to differ. Its not griefing. Its people taking advantage of idiots in a PC GAME. Remeber that it is just a game. Hell you wouldnt play a game of Battlefield or Call Of Duty and then cry when someone gets a headshot on you.... o_0 Now baiting brand new noobie players - that is griefing in my opinion. Thats taking advantage of people who havent had time to understand game mechanics. I guess people have different ideas about what griefing is then. Like I said earlier a lot think it is griefing it is the number one thing I hear about this game whilst in other MMOs. I've not experienced much of it myself but I see it going on quite a bit. Only times I was suicided they failed both times.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.05.25 22:57:00 - [45] Edited by: Zartrader on 25/05/2010 23:01:07 There is no griefing in EVE, there is only players that allow themselves to be griefed. I've been suicide ganked once, I lost very little and took a calculated risk. But it was still a risk and you win some and lose some. No big deal, in fact it was a fun experience. The problem with modern MMORPG's is they tell players if anything happens to them its not their fault. In fact the whole of society seems to be heading that way, blame someone else. Everyone's a winner, even the idiots and the lazy. I like EVE as it does not patronise me that way. EVE really is survival of the fittest and makes other games puerile and pointless. If players grasp that when they play EVE they can have fun with it no matter what they want to do in the game. If they do not grasp it they will have a miserable time being someone else's victim. EVE is a game where you have to think, hauling valuable cargo in Hi sec without a good tank and support is stupid, it's your fault, your **** up, no one else's.
Drew Jerac	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:00:00 - [46] I just got suicide ganked 30 minutes ago on my way to Jita, and even so I don't want to see suicide ganking removed, it's what makes eve special and stand out from the crowd! New Eden is a brutal place, I'd rather not have my hand held. ---------- Where can you end up with just 5,000isk and the Market Interface? I have no idea but I intend to find out: Drew Jerac's Log
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:03:00 - [47] Anyway I was only really answering the op, I did not mean to take over his thread.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:04:00 - [48] Originally by: Drew Jerac I just got suicide ganked 30 minutes ago on my way to Jita, and even so I don't want to see suicide ganking removed, it's what makes eve special and stand out from the crowd! New Eden is a brutal place, I'd rather not have my hand held. Lose much?
cBOLTSON Caldari Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:07:00 - [49] Edited by: cBOLTSON on 25/05/2010 23:09:23 Originally by: Zartrader Edited by: Zartrader on 25/05/2010 23:01:07 There is no griefing in EVE, there is only players that allow themselves to be griefed. I've been suicide ganked once, I lost very little and took a calculated risk. But it was still a risk and you win some and lose some. No big deal, in fact it was a fun experience. The problem with modern MMORPG's is they tell players if anything happens to them its not their fault. In fact the whole of society seems to be heading that way, blame someone else. Everyone's a winner, even the idiots and the lazy. I like EVE as it does not patronise me that way. EVE really is survival of the fittest and makes other games puerile and pointless. If players grasp that when they play EVE they can have fun with it no matter what they want to do in the game. If they do not grasp it they will have a miserable time being someone else's victim. EVE is a game where you have to think, hauling valuable cargo in Hi sec without a good tank and support is stupid, it's your fault, your **** up, no one else's. This ^^^^ That has to be the most truth I have heard all year. The fact that the whole of society is heading along with this politically correct 'Everyone is a winner' mentality is appauling. The fact that EVE is contary to this I think is one of its key selling points. Its definatly what keeps players for months and years on end. EDIT - Grammar n stuffs
steakraw	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:08:00 - [50] Too many -A- alts in this thread. When you get a nullsec alliance suicide ganking freighters in highsec for lols and fun (without any risk/cost on their part), there is little to discuss.

Zartrader	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:08:00 - [51] Edited by: Zartrader on 25/05/2010 23:12:30 Originally by: Drew Jerac I just got suicide ganked 30 minutes ago on my way to Jita, and even so I don't want to see suicide ganking removed, it's what makes eve special and stand out from the crowd! New Eden is a brutal place, I'd rather not have my hand held. Me and a friend decided to carry stuff last night. We planned it, I scouted, we timed it, we worked out the tank and ship needed for a given response time, we had a few panics but when he got there safely we were very happy. In other words it was fun. If we had lost the shipment wed have laughed and said 'oops'. It's my point I was making earlier, if you know this goes on you can get enjoyment out of it. After all its a game so people need to actually play it and not pretend they are playing solo and stop asking for fundamental game changes to suit the way they want to play. Making hi sec safe would remove a lot of enjoyment for me despite the fact I have zero interest in ganking myself.
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:13:00 - [52] Originally by: Zartrader Edited by: Zartrader on 25/05/2010 23:10:34 Originally by: Drew Jerac I just got suicide ganked 30 minutes ago on my way to Jita, and even so I don't want to see suicide ganking removed, it's what makes eve special and stand out from the crowd! New Eden is a brutal place, I'd rather not have my hand held. Me and a friend decided to carry stuff last night. We planned it, I scouted, we timed it, we worked out the tank ans ship needed for a given response time, we had a few panics but when he got there safely we were very happy. In other words it was fun. If we had lost the shipment wed have laughed and said 'oops'. It's my point I was making earlier, if you know this goes on you can get enjoyment out of it. After all its a game so people need to actually play it and not pretend they are playing solo and stop asking for fundamental game changes to suit the way they want to play. Making hi sec safe would remove a lot of enjoyment for me despite the fact I have zero interest in ganking myself. Maybe you should try 0.0 if you've not already done so. That is better than high-sec for the most part.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:15:00 - [53] There's an entire category of ship optimized for moving cargo by autopilot through highsec. Improbably, they care called "lowsec transports."
steakraw	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:25:00 - [54] Originally by: Emperor Cheney There's an entire category of ship optimized for moving cargo by autopilot through highsec. Improbably, they care called "lowsec transports." It doesn't matter if they were on autopilot. They get ganked when decloaking to align. They certainly did the error of not running a scout ahead of the Niarja pipe, but this can happen anywhere. The freighter dies in less than 20seconds with 15 BS smashing it, you could even gank it in 1.0 space. Second error they did was to not logoffski as soon as they saw 10+ BS from a crazy russian pirate alliance on their rig. Unfortunately, for certain cargos you need a freighter size. Anyway, it's a loss for one part, and zero risk and lols for the other part, only a tiny security level penalty. They even get free insurance from the suicide. This counts as griefing on any textbook, doesn't matter how you colour it.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:28:00 - [55] Originally by: steakraw Originally by: Emperor Cheney There's an entire category of ship optimized for moving cargo by autopilot through highsec. Improbably, they care called "lowsec transports." It doesn't matter if they were on autopilot. They get ganked when decloaking to align. They certainly did the error of not running a scout ahead of the Niarja pipe, but this can happen anywhere. The freighter dies in less than 20seconds with 15 BS smashing it, you could even gank it in 1.0 space. Second error they did was to not logoffski as soon as they saw 10+ BS from a crazy russian pirate alliance on their rig. Unfortunately, for certain cargos you need a freighter size. Anyway, it's a loss for one part, and zero risk and lols for the other part, only a tiny security level penalty. They even get free insurance from the suicide. This counts as griefing on any textbook, doesn't matter how you colour it. If they can co-ordinate a gank of 15 players to your one player bumbling along without a scout (or even scout alt), then they deserve to win. That's not greifing in the least.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:33:00 - [56] Originally by: Lightmans I think high sec should be safe place to travel and to do trading stuff etc. I think it should be safer than low sec or null sec. And it is. Quote: Look, i now the idea and the game mechanics make suiciced ganking interestering. The rest of your post says you don't. Quote: But you have also to see the other side of this: I do. I just don't see your side. Quote: You will not more use again autopilot in the next future, because you have also sucide pirates in high sec. (so lets remove the autopilot feature) Fine by me. It is not very useful when it only warps to 15 km. I always travel by warping gate-to-gate at zero, no matter where or why I am traveling. Quote: And i now that also you guys are using this comfortable feature. Someday they will catch you also with a expensive cargo, because you can blabla and write a lot against this post and afk autopilot. But we now you also use it. No, I really don't. Quote: Also this people are creating a lot of trial accounts and are getting all virutal char names for them, and its more and more difficult to create a char with a new nice name, because somebody else taken it. Lightmans is a nice name, and it wasn't taken. Besides, that has nothing to do with suicide ganks. -- Nah, that's just my Asperger's kickin' in.
Usagi Tsukino Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:49:00 - [57] Edited by: Usagi Tsukino on 25/05/2010 23:49:57 I've hated suicide ganking ever since one of my corp mates suicided a noobship and got some Tengu BPCs and the best I ever got was a damned Raven BPC. 1 run no less. OP is right. Suicide ganking is for jerks. __________ Multispectacular.
Hon Dao	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:52:00 - [58] The problem is not the suicide ganking itself, and I see no problem with the tactic being used as a fair part of EVE gameplay. The problem occurs where trial accounts are being abused, in order to get around consequences that would normally be incurred by a character when suicide ganking, namely loss of security status. Trials are supposed to have limitations compared to full accounts, otherwise what is the point in them being free when compared to a full account? There should be no advantages to using a trial account for any purpose, especially advantages that arise from the trial's disposable nature. While it may be possible to repeatedly delete an alt on a full account for the same purpose, the loss of training time on your main, in order to have the alt pilot a suitable ship, would be the consequence.
couger malthas Amarr Violent Purge PLC	Posted - 2010.05.25 23:55:00 - [59] Its crying snivling babys like this that makes me take long breaks from eve. People who *** and moan, moan and *** about getting ganked in eve should go and play hello kitty. CCP has nerfed piracy so many times just to keep the carebears happy, and the problem with that is it disgusts me. Hell it makes me want to hunt people like you down and gank you tell you quit eve. So here is a plan you can stick to, have fun in eve and be 100% safe. 1. Pay your monthly fee. 2. Stay docked up. 3. Surf the new browser eve has made for you. 4. Use the chat like an expensive MSN/AIM/Yahoo Stop Crying on the threads about your lack of balls _______________________________________________
Dratic Reaper Industries	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:00:00 - [60] I'm happy to see there are people that understand what EVE is about. Not completely safe but safer in high sec. The response times i think are fair considering the level of security 1.0 > 0.5 meaning you need more to accomplish the same effect in higher systems. If you make it "safe" you might aswell change it to "safe space" "unsafe space". The costs of suicide ganking at the moment are minimal mostly due to cost of modules. After patch having to pay 30% of premium insurance will have more of an impact. The hull cost won't be practically free any more. Gankers will have to be more selective in order to guarantee expected payout + pay the costs. Its more risk vs reward which is more akin to what eve is about. Removing concord payout i'm biased against but would be the largest contributor to declining numbers of suicide ganks of larger ships (freighters, mission ships). Haulers will be just as vulnerable. Thrashers are cheap :)

Usagi Tsukino Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:05:00 - [61] Edited by: Usagi Tsukino on 26/05/2010 00:08:46 Originally by: Hon Dao The problem is not the suicide ganking itself, and I see no problem with the tactic being used as a fair part of EVE gameplay. The problem occurs where trial accounts are being abused, in order to get around consequences that would normally be incurred by a character when suicide ganking, namely loss of security status. Trials are supposed to have limitations compared to full accounts, otherwise what is the point in them being free when compared to a full account? There should be no advantages to using a trial account for any purpose, especially advantages that arise from the trial's disposable nature. While it may be possible to repeatedly delete an alt on a full account for the same purpose, the loss of training time on your main, in order to have the alt pilot a suitable ship, would be the consequence. Recycling alts to avoid sec status penalties is an exploit IIRC. If you know of someone who did it, you should petition. Originally by: Dratic The costs of suicide ganking at the moment are minimal mostly due to cost of modules. After patch having to pay 30% of premium insurance will have more of an impact. The hull cost won't be practically free any more. Gankers will have to be more selective in order to guarantee expected payout + pay the costs. Its more risk vs reward which is more akin to what eve is about. My RL cheapness actually bled over into my EVE character and I have let several viable targets pass me by because even though I could have made a profit... It just wasn't enough to justify what I spent on the ship, even though 95% of the ship would have been reimbursed with insurance. __________ Multispectacular.
Epicbeardman	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:06:00 - [62] Originally by: cBOLTSON There is no griefing in EVE, there is only players that allow themselves to be griefed. I've been suicide ganked once, I lost very little and took a calculated risk. But it was still a risk and you win some and lose some. No big deal, in fact it was a fun experience. The problem is that it's so easy, and costs so little, I've actually been ganked missioning in a CNR with what couldn't have been much more than 20 mil worth of items on it.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:28:00 - [63] Originally by: Hon Dao The problem occurs where trial accounts are being abused, in order to get around consequences that would normally be incurred by a character when suicide ganking, namely loss of security status. That qualifies as an exploit. Personally, if I got suicide ganked by a bunch of 3 week old characters, I'd petition. No way a whole bunch of new players teamed up and just randomly decided to do that.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:28:00 - [64] Originally by: Epicbeardman Originally by: cBOLTSON There is no griefing in EVE, there is only players that allow themselves to be griefed. I've been suicide ganked once, I lost very little and took a calculated risk. But it was still a risk and you win some and lose some. No big deal, in fact it was a fun experience. The problem is that it's so easy, and costs so little, I've actually been ganked missioning in a CNR with what couldn't have been much more than 20 mil worth of items on it. It is only easy because people make it easy.
Olleybear I R' Carebear	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:33:00 - [65] Originally by: Zartrader ...problem with modern MMORPG's is they tell players if anything happens to them its not their fault... ...whole of society seems to be heading that way, blame someone else.... ...Everyone's a winner, even the idiots and the lazy... There is a lot of truth said in this persons post. Commendable. To the OP: Eve lets you use your brain to get even. For instance. Wait for suicide gankers to gank a hauler, warp in your hauler, grab as much expensive loot as you can, hear suicide gankers call you naughty names in local, laughter ensues, give loot back to the victim or keep it for yourself. One person doing this can make suicide ganking unaffordable to the suicide gankers. Also, the amount of hate directed towards the OP is just mind boggling... <<< Just because your pet likes you, that does not mean you are a good person. >>>
Hon Dao	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:42:00 - [66] Edited by: Hon Dao on 26/05/2010 00:43:05 Originally by: Usagi Tsukino Recycling alts to avoid sec status penalties is an exploit IIRC. If you know of someone who did it, you should petition. and (regarding trials), Originally by: Emperor Cheney That qualifies as an exploit. Personally, if I got suicide ganked by a bunch of 3 week old characters, I'd petition. No way a whole bunch of new players teamed up and just randomly decided to do that. And there lies the problem. While it may be an exploit, it relies on both a person to make a petition, and a GM to follow up on the petition, making it require a whole lot more work to keep under control, than say simply making it so you can't delete alts from an account more than once a month (a few hours wait to confirm deletion is not going to do much at all, as a character can still be used for several 'ganks' a day), or limiting the number of trials that an IP is capable of making (and people are using it to make use of serial trial accounts to play EVE as a free MMO too). If it is easier to exploit than it is to counter the exploit, then people will take advantage of that fact, and trials have considerably more exploit potential than alts when it comes to suicide ganking.
Eva Wolfe	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:43:00 - [67] Originally by: Olleybear Originally by: Zartrader ...problem with modern MMORPG's is they tell players if anything happens to them its not their fault... ...whole of society seems to be heading that way, blame someone else.... ...Everyone's a winner, even the idiots and the lazy... There is a lot of truth said in this persons post. Commendable. To the OP: Eve lets you use your brain to get even. For instance. Wait for suicide gankers to gank a hauler, warp in your hauler, grab as much expensive loot as you can, hear suicide gankers call you naughty names in local, laughter ensues, give loot back to the victim or keep it for yourself. One person doing this can make suicide ganking unaffordable to the suicide gankers. Also, the amount of hate directed towards the OP is just mind boggling... Only thing is ships are cheap, insurance payout, characters are easy to make and their mains have plenty of isk. Some just do it for the hell of it.
Kharylien Gallente Masked Rider Project	Posted - 2010.05.26 00:50:00 - [68] I sometimes think people misunderstand the purpose of autopilot. Autopilot is not for "I am transporting a valuable cargo in a fragile ship!" Autopilot is for when you have twenty jumps of highsec to cover and you're not carrying cargo at all. I regularly travel between Verge Vendor and the Metropolis in a shuttle - I've never been ganked, once. I confess I once transported over 200 million isk of cargo on autopilot, to Jita, from Verge Vendor. However, I did that in a passive-tanked Dominix. Protip: A Dominix tanks out harder than an Iteron. I don't know if anyone scanned my cargo, but I do know no-one attacked me. Match your transport to your cargo or risk losing it. Why is that so hard to understand?
Cyrus Deacon	Posted - 2010.05.26 01:31:00 - [69] Someone said if your in a freighter and your carrying more than 2.5b than you should not use auopilot? What kind of suicide gank would it take to pop a freighter? They have a pretty decent hull.
Brusanan Beware of Carp General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.26 01:37:00 - [70] Originally by: Cyrus Deacon Someone said if your in a freighter and your carrying more than 2.5b than you should not use auopilot? What kind of suicide gank would it take to pop a freighter? They have a pretty decent hull. 15 - 20 battleships. And it happens fairly often. ______

Dodgy Past Amarr Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.05.26 09:28:00 - [71] Edited by: Dodgy Past on 26/05/2010 09:28:24 Originally by: Jo Ka I've not experienced much of it myself but I see it going on quite a bit. Only times I was suicided they failed both times. How about giving them some sensible advice instead of reinforcing ideas that you know yourself from experience are false? I've also had issues with suicide attempts and when I found that I wanted to carry more expensive stuff more often I upgraded to a T2 Transport, and then later onto a freighter. Funnily enough I have yet to have an attempt on my T2 transport or freighter, though I can see avoiding Niarja may well be another sensible thing to start doing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.26 09:28:00 - [72] Originally by: Olleybear To the OP: Eve lets you use your brain to get even. For instance. Wait for suicide gankers to gank a hauler, warp in your hauler, grab as much expensive loot as you can, hear suicide gankers call you naughty names in local, laughter ensues, give loot back to the victim or keep it for yourself. Incidentally, this is how I've come to the conclusion that suicide ganking is far too rare. I engage in this kind of meta-theft whenever I'm in that annoying place mid-way between being bored and having enough energy to go out and do something, and it's increasingly rare that it ever results in anything. The ganks are just too few and far between. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ferdio Ricotez Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.26 09:38:00 - [73] Originally by: Dograzor More so, if you are looking for a perfectly legal way to suicide gank people in the way you propose, you can simply make alt, send him some money, get his frig some decent guns, get 20 other people to do it too, and do a onetime gank, and delete the toon. Actually, this is considered an exploit by CCP, and can get your account banned. You are free to create as many suicide gank toons as you want, but if you delete them to free up space for new ones, it's an exploit. ----- Gallente flying Minmatar - A Podlog
nafiy gnaw	Posted - 2010.05.26 09:50:00 - [74] "cargo ships are not more safe to travel with autopilot in high sec!!!" Hint: you are NOT supposed to travel afk with expensive cargo. Its your own fault if you do and get ganked.
Heimdallofasgard Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:03:00 - [75] Quote: The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked. ^THIS^ /thread //same with people who cry at ninja salvagers, can flippers and gatecamps ------- I LIKE DEHYDRATED WATERRRR
Eva Wolfe	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:07:00 - [76] I've seen someone suicide a mining barge before that was mining veldspar, it's obviously not for kill count and it certainly was not for isk as it would have been hardly worth it, so it must just be purely and simply for kick. Flew through a gate the other night at Hek, 10 players one side and 11 the other are gates that attractive that they sit and stare dreamily at the gate like in some sort of trance? There was a battleship just outside the main station that was emiting some glow, were they scanning? 6 small ships sat outside a starter station with 3 cans, just sat there for hours. Seems extremely boring, what where they up to?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:11:00 - [77] Originally by: Lightmans Edited by: Lightmans on 25/05/2010 20:36:34 1.is this known? Well is it known? How many ganks are happening now compared to, say, a month a go? 3 months? What are the numbers. Where did you get them from? Show us the data.
Snabbik Shigen	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:36:00 - [78] The changes to insurance will at least make it more expensive to suicide-gank in hi-sec. Which is really all that most players want as it was getting simply too cheap (other then the security hit) for people to go out and gank solely for the LOL-factor. A lot of the times, due to insurance, the cost of losing a ship in a gank could be under 1M ISK (even the battleship hulls). With the adjustment to insurance payouts, the LOL-gankers won't be able to get their kicks for free. Some will still do it, but it won't be as widespread. They definitely won't be turning a profit. Which is fine, my main objection is that they were able to do it without loss of ISK. The for-profit gankers will simply need to target higher value targets in order to break even. Which takes us back closer to the way it was two years ago when it wasn't as widespread. Instead of only spending maybe 5M per battleship used to gank a freighter, now they'll be spending 20-30M per battleship. Targeted ganks will still happen, but turning a profit will require better intel. If CCP really wanted to nerf ganking they would: - increase the security hit in higher security space, three strikes and you're stuck in lo-sec for a while - make you criminally flagged for a full hour instead of only 15 minutes - add PG/CPU and another mid-slot to the mining barges so that they could actually fit a tank - add mid/low slots to freighters so that you could fit for either cargo or tank (similar to the trade-offs available to the orca), which would require gankers to better scout the target - cut the insurance payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail to 50% of normal payout - improve CONCORD response times in 0.8-1.0 space Changing the insurance system is an attempt to nudge the system back to a more even risk vs reward balance.
Mova B	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:40:00 - [79] gankers will gank tearbears will shed tears. Such is eve. suicide ganking is just eves form of natural selection. I think I got ganked once back in my nub days. After that I invested in a viator and have never had a problem since. People just need to work out ways around their problems instead of just crying about them >.<
Eva Wolfe	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:45:00 - [80] Originally by: Snabbik Shigen - cut the insurance payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail to 50% of normal payout There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid.

Rothrin	Posted - 2010.05.26 10:51:00 - [81] Originally by: Eva Wolfe Originally by: Snabbik Shigen - cut the insurance payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail to 50% of normal payout There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. I would like to see gankers have a greater pen, but i worry this might efect over inquisitve new players more then gankers in it for the lols
Sir Suicidealt	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:02:00 - [82] Originally by: Mova B gankers will gank tearbears will shed tears. Such is eve. suicide ganking is just eves form of natural selection. I think I got ganked once back in my nub days. After that I invested in a viator and have never had a problem since. People just need to work out ways around their problems instead of just crying about them >.< What Mova B said, use a bit of grey matter rather than just Boo Hooing about it
Eva Wolfe	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:18:00 - [83] Originally by: Rothrin Originally by: Eva Wolfe Originally by: Snabbik Shigen - cut the insurance payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail to 50% of normal payout There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. I would like to see gankers have a greater pen, but i worry this might efect over inquisitve new players more then gankers in it for the lols New players are warned before they open fire on something that would cause CONCORD to react to them. If someone warns you not to play with fire and you do and get burnt, then you have no one to blame but yourself.
Alarci	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:22:00 - [84] Originally by: titanalt I'm guessing your one of these, your tears are delicious. LOL 1 LOL 2 LOL 3 More to come those kills just so lame either you are a griefer of the worse kind or got waaayy to much money and time on your hand and to bored to do something constructive, anyway only shows that you are good at lilling a unarmed ship congratz you such a acepilot
kveldulfson The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:23:00 - [85] Originally by: Eva Wolfe Originally by: Snabbik Shigen - cut the insurance payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail to 50% of normal payout There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. This wont stop suicide ganking which think is lame and I would not engage in it but it would increase the risk and CCP are always saying that Eve is a hard place and it would improve the imersion aspect as in reality the governments / ruling bodies would stamp on insurance companies for supporting organised crime. So I would applaud CCP removing the insurance payouts. But it wont ever stop suicide ganking so work around it!
Lone Lynx	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:29:00 - [86] Originally by: Eva Wolfe There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. Absolutely right. More of it: Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship loses history, like in RL. Lose ships often and your insurance costs will soar. Keep your insured ships safe and your insurance costs will begin to drop, and ultimately even go to zero.
Pakled Jones	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:34:00 - [87] Originally by: Lightmans (so lets remove the autopilot feature) Don't mess with autopilot. I use it at times... like when I'm checking on the market flying from region to region. Just because it doens't work for what you want it to, doesn't mean it has no value to the rest of us.
Peter Powers FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:42:00 - [88] Originally by: Jo Ka I guess people have different ideas about what griefing is then. Like I said earlier a lot think it is griefing it is the number one thing I hear about this game whilst in other MMOs. and thats why im playing eve, because this is the one MMO where getting killed hurts, and where killing makes others go emo on you. what you call griefing i call major game element of eve. Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict
I CheckPrices	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:46:00 - [89] Originally by: couger malthas Stop Crying on the threads about your lack of balls I think you should stop crying about people crying coz your crying about people crying is making me wanna cry. ps.there's too much crying in this thread.
Heimdallofasgard Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:53:00 - [90] Edited by: Heimdallofasgard on 26/05/2010 11:54:33 Rant thread is ranty... honestly... don't complain about suicide ganking as something that needs to be resolved... it's a gameplay dynamic... as is can flipping and ninja salvaging... I don't complain about any of these three mechanics as doing so would be petty and throwing toys out the pram... learn to adapt for these mechanics and you'll be fine... imagine driving your car around a city... everyone can see what you have inside your car through the windows... so if you've got something realy expensive you wanna take across town... you'll either put it in a box first... chuck it in the trunk so no-one can see it... courier it to yourself and the couriers insurance covers it... or you can use a car with no windows... or a really quick car that no-one can see inside... what you don't do... is drive across town with the really expensive item in a really flash car, roof down, while item is resting on the backseat... you adapt in life so adapt in game you bunch of whiney f***s ------- I LIKE DEHYDRATED WATERRRR

Natalie Caladan Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:54:00 - [91] Originally by: Lone Lynx There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. More of it: Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship losses history, like in RL. Lose ships often and your insurance costs will soar. Keep your insured ships safe and your insurance costs will begin to drop, and ultimately even go to zero. Fully agree. It would be so nice if insurance companies in EVE would be owned by players and not NPCs.
Eva Wolfe	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:58:00 - [92] Originally by: Heimdallofasgard imagine driving your car around a city... everyone can see what you have inside your car through the windows... so if you've got something realy expensive you wanna take across town... you'll either put it in a box first... chuck it in the trunk so no-one can see it... courier it to yourself and the couriers insurance covers it... or you can use a car with no windows... or a really quick car that no-one can see inside... what you don't do... is drive across town with the really expensive item in a really flash car, roof down, while item is resting on the backseat... you adapt in life so adapt in game you bunch of whiney f***s A cargo hold is like your trunk, they use scanners you know so effectively there are no trunks as you portray, just cargo holds as if they were made of clear glass.
Heimdallofasgard Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:59:00 - [93] Originally by: Eva Wolfe Originally by: Heimdallofasgard imagine driving your car around a city... everyone can see what you have inside your car through the windows... so if you've got something realy expensive you wanna take across town... you'll either put it in a box first... chuck it in the trunk so no-one can see it... courier it to yourself and the couriers insurance covers it... or you can use a car with no windows... or a really quick car that no-one can see inside... what you don't do... is drive across town with the really expensive item in a really flash car, roof down, while item is resting on the backseat... you adapt in life so adapt in game you bunch of whiney f***s A cargo hold is like your trunk, they use scanners you know so effectively there are no trunks as you portray, just cargo holds as if they were made of clear glass. put containers in your cargohold and fill them up with the loot. ------- I LIKE DEHYDRATED WATERRRR
Dizmul 78	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:12:00 - [94] Originally by: Brusanan Tank your hauler, and don't carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in it. The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked. This is a prime example of how I think all mmo games are becoming a steaming pile of horse dung. For one thing, who gives you the right to go around calling people terrible which in fact you probably have never seen them before in your life... ever. Secondly, (and this is not totally your fault; because people are greedy and they dont care about anything but themselves) you could be offering assistance since your such a pro at the game. But we wont expect anything near that. The fact is your wouldnt be acting like this if he was standing right next to you. The problem is not the player you mention of. Its people like you that ruin all mmos.
Snabbik Shigen	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:18:00 - [95] Originally by: Heimdallofasgard put containers in your cargohold and fill them up with the loot. Contents of containers show up on a cargo scan. (I don't want ganking outlawed, I just want it to be more expensive then "basically free" as that makes it all reward and little to no risk.)
Heimdallofasgard Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:22:00 - [96] Originally by: Dizmul 78 Originally by: Brusanan Tank your hauler, and don't carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in it. The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked. This is a prime example of how I think all mmo games are becoming a steaming pile of horse dung. For one thing, who gives you the right to go around calling people terrible which in fact you probably have never seen them before in your life... ever. Secondly, (and this is not totally your fault; because people are greedy and they dont care about anything but themselves) you could be offering assistance since your such a pro at the game. But we wont expect anything near that. The fact is your wouldnt be acting like this if he was standing right next to you. The problem is not the player you mention of. Its people like you that ruin all mmos. and it's people like you that make them great! ------- I LIKE DEHYDRATED WATERRRR
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:22:00 - [97] Originally by: Natalie Caladan Originally by: Lone Lynx There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. More of it: Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship losses history, like in RL. Lose ships often and your insurance costs will soar. Keep your insured ships safe and your insurance costs will begin to drop, and ultimately even go to zero. Fully agree. It would be so nice if insurance companies in EVE would be owned by players and not NPCs. Which players did you have in mind. The ones who are willing to give everyone who loses a ship "legitimately" 40% of the value of their ship as a free gift are probably not the ones with much ISK to do it with. PS I put quote marks around legitimate because in the last CSM meeting, CCP explicitly affirmed that suicide ganking is intended and legitimate play.
Chal0ner Amarr Dark Shadow Industries Rogue Elements.	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:28:00 - [98] Edited by: Chal0ner on 26/05/2010 12:36:53 Originally by: Lightmans 1.is this known? 2.what can we do against that? cargo ships are not more safe to travel with autopilot in high sec!!! 3.why we call it then high sec? Very late here - still this pops up from time to time... 1. Obviously 2. Stop playing Eve? 3. Because the sec rating is higher than 0.4 It's called high sec, not secure sec. There is no secure space in Eve. Period. Stop fussing about it. There will never be. But ... it's official (dev response in thread on loot nerfing, mineral prices and subsequent insurance changes), there will be a nerf of insurance payouts for ships killed by concord. It'll balance the situation a bit. When is another question altogether. Obviously they will not prevent suicide ganking* (why should they?) - but it'll cost the ganker more to do it. * Suicide ganking is usually related to high sec killing for lolz or high profit in loot in regards to the lost ship(-s) (my definition). Just to stop the endless idi0t flaming the got started last time, I'm not against suicide ganking, but for more balance in regards to that. so there should be a sig here?
Heimdallofasgard Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:29:00 - [99] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Natalie Caladan Originally by: Lone Lynx There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. More of it: Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship losses history, like in RL. Lose ships often and your insurance costs will soar. Keep your insured ships safe and your insurance costs will begin to drop, and ultimately even go to zero. Fully agree. It would be so nice if insurance companies in EVE would be owned by players and not NPCs. Which players did you have in mind. The ones who are willing to give everyone who loses a ship "legitimately" 40% of the value of their ship as a free gift are probably not the ones with much ISK to do it with. PS I put quote marks around legitimate because in the last CSM meeting, CCP explicitly affirmed that suicide ganking is intended and legitimate play. yup intended gameplay... just like you can suicide bomb in real life ------- I LIKE DEHYDRATED WATERRRR
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:35:00 - [100] Originally by: Dizmul 78 Originally by: Brusanan Tank your hauler, and don't carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in it. The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked. This is a prime example of how I think all mmo games are becoming a steaming pile of horse dung. For one thing, who gives you the right to go around calling people terrible Maybe it was the same guy who gave you the right to go around calling other peoples' games "horse dung"? Let's ask him if it was!

Dizmul 78	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:37:00 - [101] Originally by: Heimdallofasgard Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Natalie Caladan Originally by: Lone Lynx There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid. More of it: Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship losses history, like in RL. Lose ships often and your insurance costs will soar. Keep your insured ships safe and your insurance costs will begin to drop, and ultimately even go to zero. Fully agree. It would be so nice if insurance companies in EVE would be owned by players and not NPCs. Which players did you have in mind. The ones who are willing to give everyone who loses a ship "legitimately" 40% of the value of their ship as a free gift are probably not the ones with much ISK to do it with. PS I put quote marks around legitimate because in the last CSM meeting, CCP explicitly affirmed that suicide ganking is intended and legitimate play. yup intended gameplay... just like you can suicide bomb in real life yea only except this game is not real life numnuts
Dizmul 78	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:42:00 - [102] Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:45:47 Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:44:48 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Dizmul 78 Originally by: Brusanan Tank your hauler, and don't carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in it. The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked. This is a prime example of how I think all mmo games are becoming a steaming pile of horse dung. For one thing, who gives you the right to go around calling people terrible Maybe it was the same guy who gave you the right to go around calling other peoples' games "horse dung"? Let's ask him if it was! Referring to all mmos as horse dung is no where near like degrading someone all over the forums based on information that they dont have. Im tired of this kind of reckless behavior and the idioc people that respond to it trying to defend their glorified game that they have put some much time and effort to. You people dont impress me.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:43:00 - [103] Originally by: Eva Wolfe There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Why? Originally by: Lone Lynx Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship loses history, like in RL. Why? EVE ≠ Real life. Pend Insurance ≠ Home insurance. Insurance is a cost-mitigation game mechanic and an economic control mechanism, not a business. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
My Postman	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:45:00 - [104] Originally by: Heimdallofasgard Edited by: Heimdallofasgard on 26/05/2010 11:54:33 Rant thread is ranty... honestly... don't complain about suicide ganking as something that needs to be resolved... it's a gameplay dynamic... as is can flipping and ninja salvaging... I don't complain about any of these three mechanics as doing so would be petty and throwing toys out the pram... learn to adapt for these mechanics and you'll be fine... imagine driving your car around a city... everyone can see what you have inside your car through the windows... so if you've got something realy expensive you wanna take across town... you'll either put it in a box first... chuck it in the trunk so no-one can see it... courier it to yourself and the couriers insurance covers it... or you can use a car with no windows... or a really quick car that no-one can see inside... what you don't do... is drive across town with the really expensive item in a really flash car, roof down, while item is resting on the backseat... you adapt in life so adapt in game you bunch of whiney f***s Worst post i read for some time. You compare hauling in eve to RL? Actually i have to tell you that you are not driving around in London/Berlin/Las Vegas/Wherever but in a city coming out of GRAND THEFT AUTO? That would compare to eve. So no RL assumptions here. Two posts ahead you give wrong advice by packing loot into containers, where the inside of the container is perfectly seen on cargo scan? You need to pack your goodies into Orcas Corp hangar, that would help! So much for you sir. @OP There is a lot of hate in this thread. Get over it. EVE is THE game full of schoolyard bullies, griefers, scammers, can flippers, ninja salvagers and all the rest of low level minded ppl, trying to ruin your day. And it¦s because CCP seems to want it to be that way. Ranting on forums does¦nt help it, as you see all you get is flames. So, here is my advice: ADAPT. If you don¦t adapt you won¦t find fun in this game. Experiance will help you a lot to circumvent such situations. And for the most, BE ON YOUR TOES ALWAYS, ANYWHERE! Hope this helps!
Fletcho	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:46:00 - [105] I like the idea of being at risk of being shot down whenever I haul valuable cargo. It's more exciting than missioning, mining or ratting. It's the "You-lose-PVP" situation. You can't really run, you can't fight back. All you can do is hope that CONCORD gets there before your ship blows up. That being said, I think it would be fair if you lose your rights to insurance money or at least partially if you lose your ship to CONCORD. That in it's own would decrease the amount of gank attempts (provided people continue to fly with their cargo spaces as before). Going on autopilot for long high-sec trips can be tempting, but at some point you WILL die. It gives attackers so much more time, while you are approaching the gate, to estimate the value of your cargo. Where as if you do it on manual they only have the seconds before you warp off. In short, I'd like to see some insurance changes made to the group known as suicide gankers, but if it stays as it is now, I'm sure the world will continue to thrive.
Hakkar'al Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:52:00 - [106] Edited by: Hakkar''al Gallente on 26/05/2010 12:52:21 Originally by: Fletcho Going on autopilot for long high-sec trips can be tempting, but at some point you WILL die. I once put my perfectly fine Hulk on auto from high sec A -> high sec B (all high sec system between) and got to the destination in 50% armor Noob pre-hulkageddon being?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.26 12:58:00 - [107] Edited by: Tippia on 26/05/2010 12:59:14 Originally by: Fletcho I like the idea of being at risk of being shot down whenever I haul valuable cargo. It's more exciting than missioning, mining or ratting. It's the "You-lose-PVP" situation. You can't really run, you can't fight back. All you can do is hope that CONCORD gets there before your ship blows up. I think a lot of this comes down to perspective. It's like a whole lot of other things in EVE: much of the PvP is not decided in the moment, but in the preparations before it all actually happens. Did you pick the right ship? Did you pick a good route? Did you hear the scan go off (yes, EVE has sound)? Did you divert your route once detected? etc. etc. The final act of being blown up (or not) is just the culmination of a lo-o-ong chain of events and decisions, and a lot of the "fighting back" actually happened in that lead-up. There's a lot of noise made about how EVE is a game of choices and consequences, but this is really one of the better and clearer examples of how that actually plays out. The "fight" wasn't the thing you had to win: it was only the consequence ù a done deal ù of the choices you made long before that. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Tradesman Mcgee Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:09:00 - [108] Crybaby carebears got their very own CSM representative now, go cry to Ankhesepwhatevertard with your suicide gank stories. -------------------------- Insert signature.
Heimdallofasgard Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:14:00 - [109] Originally by: Dizmul 78 Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:48:24 Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:47:53 Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:45:47 Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:44:48 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Dizmul 78 Originally by: Brusanan Tank your hauler, and don't carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in it. The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked. This is a prime example of how I think all mmo games are becoming a steaming pile of horse dung. For one thing, who gives you the right to go around calling people terrible Maybe it was the same guy who gave you the right to go around calling other peoples' games "horse dung"? Let's ask him if it was! Referring to all mmos as horse dung is no where near like degrading someone all over the forums based on information that they dont have. Im tired of this kind of reckless behavior and the idiotic people that respond to it trying to defend their glorified game that they have put soo much time and effort to. You people dont impress me. HAH you're an idiot ------- I LIKE DEHYDRATED WATERRRR
Dalek Commander	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:16:00 - [110] I've lived in 0.0 for almost 3 years. I run high end plexs, and every month I send to Jita billions in loot. I've never been ganked and this is how I do it. 1. Jump my loot to a .4 system in a carrier. 2. Alt takes loot to the system next door in a transport (cloaky one) 3. Alt creates a courier contract of the cans to a 2nd alt in a NPC corp to move to Jita. 4. Transport Alt logs in and merrily goes to Jita gank free I do the reverse trip the same way back for all my yummy 0.0 goods. The important part here is making a courier contract using the giant secure can. When would be gankers scan my industrial they can not see what is inside that can. So they don't know if I have 100bil in loot, or a can full of tobacco. Gankers don't like to gamble, so they leave me alone and wait for the idiot to come through with all the loot in the hold.

northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:25:00 - [111] Originally by: Nareg Maxence Personally I think that taking away insurance for losses to Concord would be fair. Obviously that will not remove suicide ganking. It will just raise the bar on how valuable the cargo has to be before suiciding it becomes profitable. This! I just surprised they haven;t done this yet. Trinity Corporate Services
Gentle Miner School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:27:00 - [112] Edited by: Gentle Miner on 26/05/2010 13:33:10 Originally by: Dizmul 78 Originally by: Heimdallofasgard yup intended gameplay... just like you can suicide bomb in real life yea only except this game is not real life numnuts Except you can't get insurance, a new body and do it all over again in real life. I always thought that there should be no insurance payout for CONCORDOKEN.
Boogie Bobby	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:28:00 - [113] Move high value, low volume loot in a combat ship. Bigger tanks, less likely to be checked out, faster align, harder to target etc. Stay off the standard space lanes. Especially avoid the Perimeter gate at Jita. Going to Niyabanen(sp?) is 1 more jump and it's a ghost town there. I've gone so far as docking a few jumps out, splitting my cargo up and hauling it in to Jita in better ships to avoid ganks. Sometimes people will just kill you for the lulz or you'll get caught in a smart bomb gank. Accept that this is reality. Lets say hypothetically that insurance is taken out for suicide gankers. It will still happen. That crappy industrial you're using to haul half a bil worth of goods is still easy pickings for a 60 mil BS or three.
Heimdallofasgard Strategic Insanity	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:29:00 - [114] Originally by: Dalek Commander I've lived in 0.0 for almost 3 years. I run high end plexs, and every month I send to Jita billions in loot. I've never been ganked and this is how I do it. 1. Jump my loot to a .4 system in a carrier. 2. Alt takes loot to the system next door in a transport (cloaky one) 3. Alt creates a courier contract of the cans to a 2nd alt in a NPC corp to move to Jita. 4. Transport Alt logs in and merrily goes to Jita gank free I do the reverse trip the same way back for all my yummy 0.0 goods. The important part here is making a courier contract using the giant secure can. When would be gankers scan my industrial they can not see what is inside that can. So they don't know if I have 100bil in loot, or a can full of tobacco. Gankers don't like to gamble, so they leave me alone and wait for the idiot to come through with all the loot in the hold. this is what I meant earlier about putting loot into cargo cans. ------- I LIKE DEHYDRATED WATERRRR
OPX2	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:30:00 - [115] Get/Train a freighter maybe?
Spectre80 Caldari The Knights Templar R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.05.26 13:43:00 - [116] even tho im very rarely in empire and never fly autopilot on with cargo i just want to say i agree with op.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:30:00 - [117] Just pretend that a suicide ganking attempt is a 100% certainty every time you undock your hauler and play accordingly. That's what I do. I have not been ganked yet, luckily, but I've been scanned plenty.
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb Nostradamus Effect	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:51:00 - [118] Good! Not enough danger in hi-sec. It is supposed to be "safer" and not "invincible mode"...
Hon Dao	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:59:00 - [119] Needs at least two people to work. Bookmark a point somewhere along the warp route to the inevitable gank. Park an empty industrial there. After you get scanned in the one you're actually hauling stuff in, warp to the bookmark instead of the gate, and transfer the goods to the one waiting. Warp on to the gank, and laugh as they blow up a now empty ship. (If you really want to take the p***) Tractor and salvage their wrecks in the second industrial while you autopilot to the gate.
Daedalus II	Posted - 2010.05.26 15:07:00 - [120] Personally I don't have anything against the legit suicide ganks, it's all in the game mechanics. What is a problem is all the asshat pirates that gank pretty much anything. They are unpredictable and hard to defend against. Once I discovered my high sec afk autopiloting recon had gone into armor damage all of a sudden. I for the life of me couldn't understand why anyone would gank a recon without any cargo other than low value isotopes, but eventually figured out it must have been smart bombs and someone else being the target. How am I supposed to expect that?? Another time I was out flying a T2 bpc (value < 1 mil) afk in a shuttle, and sure as hell some dumb ass destroyed the shuttle with his T2 fitted destroyer (I guess the joke was on him especially as the blueprint didn't even drop). I mean you have to be pretty stupid if you think someone is hauling around a T2 bpo in a shuttle on autopilot. Now a lost shuttle and low value blueprint is nothing I care about, but what if I had been in a pimped out assault frigate or other expensive T2 frigate and someone decides that the T2 bpc is in fact an original. I'll lose a 50+ mil ship just because someone made a mistake that pretty much won't cost him a dime. Same thing when I haul stuff in a freighter. Who knows if some idiot mistakes a load worth 100 mil with a load with 100 bil. I'll lose my expensive ship and inexpensive cargo due to some idiot that didn't finish basic math in school.

N0N	Posted - 2010.05.26 15:30:00 - [121] Originally by: Daedalus II Personally I don't have anything against the legit suicide ganks, it's all in the game mechanics. (The stuff about afk APing) Why didn't anyone tell me there was a rule book? I do know one rule though, if you AFK AP through empire, expect the worst.
Dian'h Might Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated	Posted - 2010.05.26 15:52:00 - [122] Originally by: Tippia It's like a whole lot of other things in EVE: much of the PvP is not decided in the moment, but in the preparations before it all actually happens. Did you pick the right ship? Did you pick a good route? Did you hear the scan go off (yes, EVE has sound)? Did you divert your route once detected? etc. etc. The final act of being blown up (or not) is just the culmination of a lo-o-ong chain of events and decisions, and a lot of the "fighting back" actually happened in that lead-up. There's a lot of noise made about how EVE is a game of choices and consequences, but this is really one of the better and clearer examples of how that actually plays out. The "fight" wasn't the thing you had to win: it was only the consequence ù a done deal ù of the choices you made long before that. /thread
Julia Venatrix	Posted - 2010.05.26 16:34:00 - [123] Just for some context, I'm a carebear industrialist in a corp of carebear industrialists. One of my corpmates is a gank magnate. He loses one iteron per month, give or take, with 3-400 million ISK of cargo. We still cheer gankers. Gank more. Gank early, gank often. Because every time you blow up somebody's cargobuffed Iteron, it's like Christmas... On the third day of Christmas, a victim bought from me Three cargo rigs Two MSEs and a tech-one Caldari in-deeeeeeee. (I, of course afk to Jita every other day... in an empty industrial. Going back I am rather more careful, with shield extenders and active invuln fields and such. BPOs go in a force recon. After all, I couldn't laugh at my idiot corpmate nearly as much if I got ganked too.) --- Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue.


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