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Tyranis mission loot nerf: your feed back.

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Aldous Zakalwe	Posted - 2010.05.29 09:40:00 - [61] Originally by: Kaian Voskhod Originally by: Vitamin B12 everytime i see one scrap metal in a battleship it sounds like "yoyo this could be a nice loot. but now PATCHED! move away!!". seriously? why one metal scraps just make the **in wreck empty!! Yeah. Puting only one scrap is evil. I mean: i only tractor / salvage non-empty large wrecks... Because there was always something juicy. Now with the in srap i can't make the difference between a good full wreck and a crap wreck. F*ck you ccp. I totally agree. The 1 metal scrap is a condescending slap in the face. Nothing else. Other than that it seems mission runners are taking the fall for macro miners. Now where are your actions against them CCP?
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.05.29 15:55:00 - [62] Originally by: Aldous Zakalwe Other than that it seems mission runners are taking the fall for macro miners. Now where are your actions against them CCP? You're kidding, right? unholy rage
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.29 16:52:00 - [63] Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Aldous Zakalwe Other than that it seems mission runners are taking the fall for macro miners. Now where are your actions against them CCP? You're kidding, right? unholy rage That was a year ago.
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.29 17:05:00 - [64] Originally by: Gilbarun i dont like the fact that i looted 5 Y-T8 MWDs in the last 2 days :( they are worthless now :( -Gil This... -- "If itÆs true that our species is alone in the universe, then IÆd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little" George Carlin
SunBracer	Posted - 2010.05.29 19:01:00 - [65] I'm relatively new to Eve and looting with my corp mates really helped me pay for new ships, ship fittings, implants and skill books. Looting (and later salvaging) worked wonders in terms of generating an income for me as a new player. More experienced players would go into a room and get the bounties and then the new players (like myself) would jump in afterwards and do looting and salvaging. Sometimes I would also share in the bounties depending on the setup, the size of the fleet etc. Sometimes I would make informal agreements with mission runners and just loot for myself and salvage for the mission runner. Level 1 missions really pay pittance, so it was a fantastic experience looting and selling items worth MILLIONS of ISK (big guns, armor plating- Mmmmmmmmm...). This was a sacrifice on the part of more experienced players (they could loot and salvage themselves), but they consoled themselves with the fact that at least the loot didn't go to waste and that new players would get much needed ISK. New players in fact DO need large amounts of ISK up front to procure skillbooks and implants.I vowed that I would help out new players by letting them do missions with me- just like I was helped. Loot is accessible to the newest player even without a tractor beam fitted. Now that a lot of the loot has been removed this means that the bounties are the main source of income for both the mission runners and the new players who are desperate for ISK. I actually now need to be in the room with the mission runner and share in the bounties to generate any substantial income (instead of previously just selling loot). The mission runner must now also be wary of the novice player's actions and might even be blamed if something goes wrong. The result is that the incentive to bring along new players has suffered a huge blow. Whereas there were two steady streams of mission income (loot/salvage and bounties) now there is only one main high-risk one namely 'bounties' and a smaller safer one namely 'salvage'. All I can say is that with the reduction in loot and the need for me to generate HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of ISK to buy new ships, fittings and implants for my character (and salvage needed for manufacturing) there is no incentive to bring along new players. This would only compromise my income and production chain and would substantially delay my character's earnings and skill development at this point in time. With the huge money sink needed for upgrades my position is that: Loot one can pass on, bounties one cannot. In addition to new players being denied this looting opportunity, I myself feel cheated by CCP post-Tyrannis since I've spent all my time up till now trying to get to level 4 missions, so that I can get both the bounties and the loot (only to find the latter being snatched away from me while other people had this going for years). In the missioning world new players will now toil an eternity to get standings and ISK on their own. The other alternative of course is mining which I now recommend to anyone starting the game. The reason? With the removal of loot, mining is now very similiar to missioning. Players like myself are just stuck in missioning, because they spent so much time and skill training on it already. The one area pays in bounties and salvage the other one in minerals.
Afrodite Draconis	Posted - 2010.05.29 19:31:00 - [66] These tears are so delicious.
Sae'a	Posted - 2010.05.29 19:55:00 - [67] Originally by: Afrodite Draconis These tears are so delicious. the stupid repeating of this sentence shows a clearly empty head at least the whole eve universe will be affected from this, so you better ask some friends to think for you
Afrodite Draconis	Posted - 2010.05.29 19:57:00 - [68] Originally by: Sae'a Originally by: Afrodite Draconis These tears are so delicious. the stupid repeating of this sentence shows a clearly empty head at least the whole eve universe will be affected from this, so you better ask some friends to think for you Cry some more?
Sae'a	Posted - 2010.05.29 20:03:00 - [69] Originally by: Afrodite Draconis Originally by: Sae'a Originally by: Afrodite Draconis These tears are so delicious. the stupid repeating of this sentence shows a clearly empty head at least the whole eve universe will be affected from this, so you better ask some friends to think for you Cry some more? no, why shouldt i? try to use your brain, it might help, even if the feeling is unusual
Becka Periakias	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:23:00 - [70] Finally had some free time to run another mission. First mission (details on page 2) had one tag, 5 scrapmetal, no meta 3 or 4 items, a couple meta 1 or 2 in the cruisers. Second mission was Buzz Kill, so only 4 BC and 4 BS (Angels). This time, no tags at all. But I got 2 meta 3 mwds (Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon 1 Microwarpdrive), which seems to be the norm now. Salvage included 9 alloyed tritium bars and 9 armor plates. So ... Quality 13 agent, in high security, Buzz Kill mission, netted me about 5.4 million isk from loot and salvage (not counting the meta 0 that was reprocessed) along with about 15.4 million in bounties, rewards and mission time bonus. Not bad for an hour and a half of work (I ran it in my Ishtar for fun, not efficiency). Oh, and this is an agent located in .8 Caldari space, next door to a .4 system. Mission was in the same system as my agent ... no multiple jumps through low security as some have reported.

Rolare Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:51:00 - [71] Originally by: SunBracer Lots of stuff. Why the hell would a new player need millions upon millions of ISK? I mean, my own expenses were quite low when it came to fittings and I only paid half price for new ships, but that was because of our small two-corp Alliance (yay for corp-hangar and indy alliance mate). It was highly favourable for the newer lot in our corp (which was like, all of us xD) but the money I saved propably goes up to max 30mill and well, that ain't horribly much. So I don't see how newer players are financially crippled by this :l
Whattis	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:02:00 - [72] Here is my feedback: I sold my 3 bil mission ship and am waiting for drake skills to make my fortune in the less concordy regions of space, learning the ways of the unprotected while I train up to what I think will be a tengu. I was always curious to see what plexing and wormholes and anoms were like, this nerf gave me the push I needed. See you on the killmails!
JimboDeath	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:59:00 - [73] Let me make this perfectly clear and short. My time playing eve has gone from fun to f#@$ this. Fun was, logging on, fly a L5 mission near home base, sayin hi to my friends, and getting the f*&# out. Now my game has turned from an arcade-styled evening into some perverted CCP form of cycling agents until my L5 carebear needs are fulfilled. I dont care what others do in this game, Im not one to get all ultra involved in wtf's plans, plots, or deceptions. If this was ultimately what you crazy a$$ed developers wanted...I have just one more follow-up question for you: Did you just want to run my missions for me too, while I still pay for my account? Sincerely, Ihavepurchasedmylast30-dayPLEX
Spatiopathe	Posted - 2010.05.30 23:08:00 - [74] i rate with pirate BS. machariel AC (600m/s, x-large, 800+dps with gun, good tracking and 60+km of falloff.) I kill fast and proper, i collect all bounty i can, and use a tractor for loot BS wreck. in fact the salvage is a waste of time for me. So i earn isk with: bounty: no change. 20-40m/hour depend of mission. LP: no change. ratio of 2m/1000LP, and with my agent, 10-25000 LP/h.. loot: few change, i always have big guns to sell. finally an average of 30m of bounty+ 30m of LP +10m of loot by good hour.. total average of 70m/hour, thats pretty good enough for me. many missioner lost of sight the LP value, just earn time, do big dps, have a fast ship, dont waste your time with looting small and emdium wreck, or crap salvaging npc.
mr hippy	Posted - 2010.05.31 00:21:00 - [75] so ok, stuffs changed, people going way off topic on a tangent as ususal on here... i live in the drone regions. fair the alloy refining values have changed but what is with the massive drop in quantities. as we all very well know drones do not have bounty prizes. ive gone from filling 550m/3 from 3 battleships (100-150 glossy, 95-100 plush, 17-18 opulent,250-350motley, 120-150 lustering) to more like 300m3 of (30-50 glossy, 70-90 plush, 17-18 opulent and the low low end alloys. WTF?! where the lustering and motley gone!??! so now instead of averaging 1.2-1.5m a battleship im averaging 700k, whereas anywhere else in 0-0 you get a bounty prize of that alone and a loot drop. unless market values stabalise soon its uneconomical to live there and will have to evac. taking a 30-40% hit in income currently
Cake Isalie	Posted - 2010.05.31 01:06:00 - [76] Maybe the 40% income nerf will be replenished with PI income. How much isk PI will generate remains to be seen. Roll on 8th June and CCP's hidden plans.
crimson fire	Posted - 2010.05.31 05:44:00 - [77] The relative value of LP was raised, that means the incentive to do low sec lvl 5 was raised.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.31 06:20:00 - [78] Quote: The reason? With the removal of loot, mining is now very similiar to missioning. Difficulty wise, it's similar but I wish it gave the same rewards. I have more T2 mining ships than missioning ships. Quote: I dont care what others do in this game, It's fair to reply that the others don't care of what you do in this game as well. Nor if you quit EvE. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
SunBracer	Posted - 2010.06.02 05:52:00 - [79] Originally by: Rolare Originally by: SunBracer Lots of stuff. Why the hell would a new player need millions upon millions of ISK? I mean, my own expenses were quite low when it came to fittings and I only paid half price for new ships, but that was because of our small two-corp Alliance (yay for corp-hangar and indy alliance mate). It was highly favourable for the newer lot in our corp (which was like, all of us xD) but the money I saved propably goes up to max 30mill and well, that ain't horribly much. So I don't see how newer players are financially crippled by this :l Less income equals lower quality implants. This means slower learning and subsequently lower level skills over a longer period than can be achieved. This then translates into less income/standings over a longer period regardless of your role (mining/combat/trade/industry). The same can be said for ships and fittings. New players might be under the impression that they're doing well, but in the greater scheme of things they are just gimping along. More loot (read 'income') means quicker career advancement.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Reckoning.	Posted - 2010.06.02 06:23:00 - [80] Quote: Less income equals lower quality implants. This means slower learning and subsequently lower level skills over a longer period than can be achieved. This then translates into less income/standings over a longer period regardless of your role (mining/combat/trade/industry). The same can be said for ships and fittings. New players might be under the impression that they're doing well, but in the greater scheme of things they are just gimping along. More loot (read 'income') means quicker career advancement. Oh noes it takes longer to get implants?! . People who fly in lowsec/0.0 are podded relatively consistently ensuring that they cannot simply have a full set of +5s all the time. The minuscule loss of training time for having to do a mission or two more to buy that +5 set is nothing.

Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.02 09:28:00 - [81] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 02/06/2010 09:28:58 Quote: Oh noes it takes longer to get implants?! . People who fly in lowsec/0.0 are podded relatively consistently ensuring that they cannot simply have a full set of +5s all the time. The minuscule loss of training time for having to do a mission or two more to buy that +5 set is nothing. I had indeed to waste TONS of SP because I had to jump clone to be sure not to lose implants in 0.0 too often. Sometimes it looks like before Tyrannis there were two games: those who had to follow EvE's quite harsh rules, to always compromise "best" with "possible", to always pick between non optimal choice. To always pay consequences. To face competition and fierce territorial fights. And another half of the game, where the only preoccupation was how to fit the new deadspace mod in the forest of the others. Welcome to EvE. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Noran Ferah Red Sky Morning	Posted - 2010.06.02 11:41:00 - [82] Edited by: Noran Ferah on 02/06/2010 11:41:22 Originally by: Cake Isalie Maybe the 40% income nerf will be replenished with PI income. How much isk PI will generate remains to be seen. Roll on 8th June and CCP's hidden plans. Boy that sounds like FUN! Not. Pins on a map != any kind of fun. In fact, it is being forced on the community by the simple removal of necessary commodities from the seeded market. When I can fly by and bombard it from orbit, that will be fun. Everything else in this damn game is pvp, why not that?
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.06.02 11:58:00 - [83] Originally by: Noran Ferah When I can fly by and bombard it from orbit, that will be fun. Everything else in this damn game is pvp, why not that? It is, just not in the way you want it to be. You have to share resources with other players using the same planets. But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
Ugly Eric	Posted - 2010.06.02 13:21:00 - [84] My experience of missioning and ratting is pretty limited. Missioning I have always done by blitzing in fleets, ratting I newer bothered to loot, as the main reason to rat was my sec. And when ratting for isk, newer had a "secure" space where to do it, so the loot was not worth to pick up. Chain the rats, and enjoy the bounties. But the change. In my oppinion this is taking eve to better direction. And no, I am not talking about getting people to lowsec to be killed, or more miners to be killed. I my eyes this takes eves economy even more to the hands of a player away from CCP. The PI will make a completely new set of "free income" to eve. It will cover the 40% or so loss of missionrunning iskies. Think of it as a step towards 100% playerbased economy. It can ofcourse be achieved as long as the game ought to be EvE, but we getting closer to it. People here cry and whine and ragequit beacause they cannot be doing what they have been doing so far. They actually haveto train something else to do. Thats evolution. It really is a good thing for a game like this. It evolves. The thing that always bothered me the most with missionrunners are how they actually are able to keep doing the same thing year after year. Why pay monthly subscription of a MMO, when playing a singleplayergame? They (the ones I know atleast) have also a ton of SP in PvP skills, but newer do they actually need them. Few carebears of my alliance has **load of better PvP skills (sp wise) than I do, but not a single time has anybody of them put them to any use at all. I always saw missionrunning as a stepway to beginners towards the "true" content of eve. PvP that is. I used it so, so hence why I see it like that. It was a way to spend time until happy with some skills. Good way to learn how to actually fly a ship (not including domis or any caldari missionrunners). You learned hoe the ship behaves. Now, This lootnerf really is a good thing for miners. The mineral prizes go upwards for two reasons. The meta0 crap is no longer a major mineral source and secondly the incurance policy that no longer sets the maximum price to the all mineral average prize, as it did before. Now the insurance is to follow mineral prices, not vice versa as it was earlier. So this is actually balancing the game yet more. After few weeks of searching its place, the mineral prices comes up to a level, so that a miner can make roughly the same isk/hour than a missionrunner could. Yes, mining is boring, but tbh, it is just as boring as missionrunning. And to the endword. All the people claiming here to be paying their last subscription, I am happy for that, beacause you apparently wasn't playing the right game. This one is to be as good to all players, not just you. Heck, train up your PI skills (rl and sp), take few planets, and train a hauler. Now contigniue missionrunnig, and suprise suprise, your hourly iskmaking is the same as before, but with less work. Now you only haul few runs a day/week/month and get the same amount of isk than earlier with that big project of looting, salvaging and reprocessing the **. Ugly Eric
RedSplat Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.06.02 13:34:00 - [85] Edited by: RedSplat on 02/06/2010 13:38:40 Your zero risk high income level 4 missions were bad for the game. HTFU Either zero risk mid level income, or high risk high income. Choose one. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.02 14:19:00 - [86] Originally by: RedSplat Edited by: RedSplat on 02/06/2010 13:38:40 Your zero risk high income level 4 missions were bad for the game. HTFU Either zero risk mid level income, or high risk high income. Choose one. Don't give that risk vs reward garbage. It means you're either a noob that don't know how sov null is or a troll that knew but trolls anyway. In some of those backwater sov nulls, you can go on for weeks without seeing a single hostile. You're more likely to get suicide ganked in highsec hubs. It's plex famville on steroids out here. Zero risk, huge rewards.
Ugly Eric	Posted - 2010.06.03 06:54:00 - [87] Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: RedSplat Edited by: RedSplat on 02/06/2010 13:38:40 Your zero risk high income level 4 missions were bad for the game. HTFU Either zero risk mid level income, or high risk high income. Choose one. Don't give that risk vs reward garbage. It means you're either a noob that don't know how sov null is or a troll that knew but trolls anyway. In some of those backwater sov nulls, you can go on for weeks without seeing a single hostile. You're more likely to get suicide ganked in highsec hubs. It's plex famville on steroids out here. Zero risk, huge rewards. Zero risk now. Somebody still has worked wery hard to get that place to zero risk. Under that time there has been huge risk. And that somebody, who actually has worked to get the space safe, actually deserves it. And if you'r talking about just regular roamer in deep 0.0 plexing, or missioning. Yes, there may be occations, when you get to do that in peace, but then again, there may come a week or a month, that you just sit in cloak waiting for a window to gtfo from that system. And those NPC 0.0 station systems. You can go and get a mission from there, but if youre not a "dweller" of that system, you have pretty high risk being camped to the station, or gates of the system. Eric


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