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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:44:00 -
[1]
Please post your feedback about post tyranis mission loot nerf.
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sabre906
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:58:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
Please post your feedback about post tyranis mission loot nerf.
That loot nerf is overrated. You earn more in the same amount of time by blitzing anyway.
But I like how highsec lvl4 agents always send you to neighboring lowsec because they're empty, and highsec lvl5s don't exist anymore. Since everyone and their mother afk in highsec, and lowsec is empty as always, all missions end up going there and none in highsec. Lovely.
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Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:10:00 -
[3]
Originally by: sabre906
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
Please post your feedback about post tyranis mission loot nerf.
That loot nerf is overrated. You earn more in the same amount of time by blitzing anyway.
But I like how highsec lvl4 agents always send you to neighboring lowsec because they're empty, and highsec lvl5s don't exist anymore. Since everyone and their mother afk in highsec, and lowsec is empty as always, all missions end up going there and none in highsec. Lovely.
It just means lowsec will be even more empty, as mission runners flock to mission hubs that are more than 4-5 jumps from lowsec boundaries. No dedicated mission runner is going to risk a multi-billion isk ship to piracy. Far better to fight the crowds.
Just more crowds in the crowded high sec, and more crickets in the already empty lowsec.
As to the loot nerf, I never reprocessed and sold, I reprocessed and built, and sold the good stuff.
Loot nerf is fail. I will never be a miner. But I will gank them now, for what they have brought upon us all...
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Epicbeardman
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
Please post your feedback about post tyranis mission loot nerf.
The only thing I dislike is that now CNR > Golem. Which it shouldn't.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:32:00 -
[5]
cruise CNR was already better than cruise golem
cruise/torp CNR was not and still isn't better than torp golem against targets within torp golems ~60km range.
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Backho
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:35:00 -
[6]
Except out of the 20 usual ammarian missions
7-9 has stuff 80-100km out ?
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Epicbeardman
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
cruise/torp CNR was not and still isn't better than torp golem against targets within torp golems ~60km range.
Thanks for repeating my point.
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Marcellis Wallis
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:18:00 -
[8]
I'm noticing a distinct change in the npc drops from my missions. I've been doing level 2 encounters for a few days now and I've never seen MWD's or naval variant ammos drop until after the patch.
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Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:33:00 -
[9]
I ran 4 level 5 missions, got less than 4000m3 loot and salvage. I am including cap boosters in that figure btw. I guess the whole loot/salvage thing is 'why bother' now. Ill just zip around in a loki picking up tags and leave the rest...
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:41:00 -
[10]
yeah very strange, my corpmate found a non-faction npc in Delve drop some Caldari rockets lmao
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:58:00 -
[11]
I noticed a drop in loot volume.
I noticed too that serpentis BS now drop... Scrapmetal. Argh: i obly tractor non empty large wrecks cauz' their tasty... Now... well...
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Kuso Tabeteshine
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:59:00 -
[12]
I did notice a significant drop in the amount of loot, but the resulting isk was about the same for me.
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Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:15:00 -
[13]
Since this is a constructive thread so far...
How has the tags played out? So far my limited time in Eve I have not seen any tags. I only ran one exploration site yesterday though. I did encounter the abundance of scrap metal, any amount is too abundant for me. I was just wondering if the amount of tags was going to have any impact or if it will make up such a small portion of the change it will be moot.
The adjustment to the courier missions hit me right off. My High sec mission running alt does not have sufficient cargo capacity to do the new mission volumes. Have to train her up to Gallente Industrial II... Damn you CCP, I want my 2 hours of skill training back!!! 
My CSM Election Announcement
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JordanParey
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:21:00 -
[14]
Well after getting five MWDs last night that were worth 30m altogether, I suppose I couldn't complain that much. What did irritate me was getting metal scraps- just get rid of those.. I still looted/salvaged everything and I also didn't notice any particular increase in the amount of tags, just an increase in the amount of time it took to loot everything when it wasn't really worthwhile. I suppose I could trade in my Vargur for a Machariel 
[i]2000 B.C. - "Here, eat this root."
1000 B.C. - "That root is heathen, say this prayer."
1850 A.D. - "That prayer is superstition, drink this potion."
1940 A.D. - "That potion is snake oil, sw |
Deej Montana
Caldari
Outbound Flight
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:42:00 -
[15]
I ran a couple Guristas L4 missions this morning. It was pretty ugly. The first 3 battleships I opened yielded 1 metal scraps and 1 Guristas diamond tag. The next rooms weren't any better and strangely most of the BS were completely empty. It was really bad, even for a Guristas mission.
I know that a lot of the hardcore guys just blitz, but for me looting/salvaging was never just about the isk/hour efficiency. I did it for the infrequent surprises (like Arbalest launchers). If my limited experience from today turns out to be the new norm I'll just forget looting and blitz from now on.
Ah well, looks like CCP saved me the trouble of training for a Golem! |
Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.05.27 19:01:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 27/05/2010 19:01:57
I'm a ninja looter/salvager. The nerf has hit hard. I've ninja'd a half dozen mission sites and then decided I want to work on my caldari standings so I can do l4's closer to home.
The loot was pretty bad. I focus on large wrecks only. Usually I can make several million isk/site. I'm probably making 1.5mil isk now max. There's definitely a difference. I agree with one of the other posters here: why bother looting/salvaging.
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Backho
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Posted - 2010.05.27 19:04:00 -
[17]
Yeap. Thats 90 days worth of marauders V, TP skills, Grid upgrades, Advance weapon upgrades V, salvage V....god.
I will still get Caldari BS and Torp skills though. cant live without em
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Goose99
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Posted - 2010.05.27 19:51:00 -
[18]
Man, you guys are behind the times. Mining/industry got nerfed by worthless insurance. Mission running and ratting got nerfed by crappy loot and missions going to lowsec.
Highsec pirating is the way of Tyrannis. Jita got a 1000 hard limit. So many ppl waiting on gates getting into Jita, so many juicy loads to choose from. Missions and mining is out, high sec pirating is in, get with the times, ppl, and happy shopping. 
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Morris Kane
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Posted - 2010.05.27 20:14:00 -
[19]
Just want to add my voice here.
i do not like that agents now send you to low sec 4/5 times..
also the loot nerf is a big hit..
CCP!! please undo those 2 changes!!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.05.27 20:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Goose99
Highsec pirating is the way of Tyrannis. Jita got a 1000 hard limit. So many ppl waiting on gates getting into Jita, so many juicy loads to choose from.
I think people with a well-researched Orca BP might do a killing as well, at least until that cap is removedą 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Vultaras
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Posted - 2010.05.27 20:35:00 -
[21]
Yes , today for the first time i saw Metal Scraps instead of some expensive modules in mission Recon 1 of 3 .
So everything works as said by CCP.
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.27 20:50:00 -
[22]
Saved me bothering to train energy grid upgrades on two characters, so I'm not upset :)
Ran a couple of missions to check them out ( all ended up vs sansha ), seemed to be business as usual apart from the random BS wrecks I tractored in containing the odd scrap. While that is marginally annoying, it's not the end of the world, just even less incentive to bother cleaning up.
The agents sending you 5-6 hops away is considerably more annoying.
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.05.27 21:13:00 -
[23]
Well, i'm sad.
I don't know what to do. Maybe blitzing.
I tought ccp would exchange 500 000 isks large T1 modules by 500 000 isks tags. But no, we got scrap metal instead.
It's like taking a dik in the A
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.27 21:13:00 -
[24]
Judging by the fact I am seeing:
- 0.0 ratters (and missioneers in a lesser degree)
- 0.0 drone region denizens (goo changes)
- hi sec L4 missioneers
- miners (the insurance change has its effects)
- courier missioneers
- others I surely missed
all more or less complaining, suggests CCP are trying to nerf more than a category.
It'd seem like they are nerfing what:
- can be botted / macroed
- generates wealth / items "out of thin air"
Basically they want to push ISK value up to counter the (common among MMOs but deadly for an economy based game) trend where passing the years, everything loses value and everyone can farm everything and money becomes worthless.
In that sense, it'd not be a missioneer pinpointed prosecution but an epocal change / restore to the overall game economy balance.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.05.27 21:28:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 27/05/2010 21:29:59
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Judging by the fact I am seeing:
- 0.0 ratters (and missioneers in a lesser degree)
- 0.0 drone region denizens (goo changes)
- hi sec L4 missioneers
- miners (the insurance change has its effects)
- courier missioneers
- others I surely missed
all more or less complaining, suggests CCP are trying to nerf more than a category.
It'd seem like they are nerfing what:
- can be botted / macroed
- generates wealth / items "out of thin air"
Basically they want to push ISK value up to counter the (common among MMOs but deadly for an economy based game) trend where passing the years, everything loses value and everyone can farm everything and money becomes worthless.
In that sense, it'd not be a missioneer pinpointed prosecution but an epocal change / restore to the overall game economy balance.
If that's true CCP had better hope isk increases in value, i.e. everything becomes cheaper. If not, in a game that requires grinding, making the grinding longer necessitates a short period of real "fun". Less "fun" means less people. OMG Eve is dying. But seriously, at least for the short term mineral prices are going to rise because missioners, without that large wreck loots, just aren't going to do it like they used to. Ninja salvager/looters at the top of that game like myself aren't going to do it either as there isn't enough incentive to continue doing it. The miners may offset the mineral shortage but who is going to offset the salvage shortage. It's going to be a bit before that picks up again. From my own observation ninja looting I've gone from making several million isk per site to maybe 1.5 million. So unless salvage prices double there's no incentive for me to continue to do it. And I don't see a doubling of salvage prices in the future. Most missioners I've talked to are going for the blitz now and foregoing making a second trip to the mission site to salvage and loot it. The only ninja's that will continue to salvage are noobs because that's all they know. They're too scared to loot. So, they aren't aware of how much loot adds to one's earnings. Neither are they effective scanners. I can scan out 5 sites in as many minutes plus a little more. Takes noobs 15 or more minutes.
So, if the missioners aren't salvaging and the ninja's aren't salvaging you know what's going to happen to salvage. And that effectively devalues isk, in part.
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Kaya Divine
Gallente
Kittens Factory
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Posted - 2010.05.27 22:01:00 -
[26]
Forced economy.
Shoot your shot... |
Lunewrath
Amarr
Exiled Eden
REPUBLIC OF PANORAD
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:47:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Lunewrath on 28/05/2010 00:50:29
Edited by: Lunewrath on 28/05/2010 00:49:34
Well I have only been doing level 3's so my feedback probably won't count, just decided to salvage some Thukker wrecks and I got between 1 - 3 meta 0s per wreck...
is it only for level 4's?
Edit: bah I keep spelling it meto
Edit 2: And no metal scraps
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:04:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 28/05/2010 02:04:37
Originally by: Lunewrath
Edited by: Lunewrath on 28/05/2010 00:50:29
Edited by: Lunewrath on 28/05/2010 00:49:34
Well I have only been doing level 3's so my feedback probably won't count, just decided to salvage some Thukker wrecks and I got between 1 - 3 meta 0s per wreck...
is it only for level 4's?
Edit: bah I keep spelling it meto
Edit 2: And no metal scraps
It appears that large wrecks were nerfed, mostly. Large wrecks account for about 80% of the value in loot and salvage in a mission minus the occasional arbalest heavy launcher only found on medium wrecks worth about 13mil isk. If you're missioning several missions ever day you may find this mod once a week. Twice if you're really really lucky.
To look at it another way: If you're paying 11% in npc taxes and you've just lost 30% of the overall value of missions through loot nerfs you've lost a grand total of 41% of your income that you just spent the last year building to comfortable proportions. Welcome back to making what a noob can make.
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R Ramjet
Virgin Galactica
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:33:00 -
[29]
I ran my last hi-sec level 5 last night (a mission offer from before the patch was deployed).
The mission was Honor (Guristas), containing 24 battleship sized wrecks. Loot from the mission wasnt a pinch on what it used to be, being mostly replaced with metal scraps, filling around 1/4 of my looter-golems cargo bay.
After cycling my 4 L5 mission offers afterward, now all low sec offers, I sighed and logged out.
I am primarily a PvE player, I'm not interested in 0.0, WH's, mining or low-sec space.
I intend to stick around to have a look at PI, after which I believe I will allow my accounts to expire for a while.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.05.28 03:20:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 28/05/2010 03:23:08
Originally by: R Ramjet
I ran my last hi-sec level 5 last night (a mission offer from before the patch was deployed).
The mission was Honor (Guristas), containing 24 battleship sized wrecks. Loot from the mission wasnt a pinch on what it used to be, being mostly replaced with metal scraps, filling around 1/4 of my looter-golems cargo bay.
After cycling my 4 L5 mission offers afterward, now all low sec offers, I sighed and logged out.
I am primarily a PvE player, I'm not interested in 0.0, WH's, mining or low-sec space.
I intend to stick around to have a look at PI, after which I believe I will allow my accounts to expire for a while.
The problem with this nerf for l5 mission runners is that they will only be available in lowsec except for the rare happenstance. The only way someone is going to do l5's in lowsec is with a blob on standby to shoot down any pirates. 1) if you can get that many people together, great. Some will, especially corps. 2) Divide Lp by the number of people. Say 10 people. At about 70,000lp that's 7000lp per player. The time required to assemble all those people make it just as profitable as doing l4's on your own. L5's are dead to the vast majority of players now.
I'm with you on the expiring subscription. I'm going to see how this shakes out. But one thing is for certain, I'm not going back to mining and I'm not going to do PI which is mining imo. Nor do I have any interests in being an industrialist or trader. I'm hoping salvage prices are going to increase significantly due to the numbers of people not salvaging their missions any longer. But I seriously doubt they'll rise to the a point of offset my lost income from loot/salvage.
I really feel bad for the newer players that just spent the last 3 - 4 months working hard to reach L4's. They are the MOST dependent on loot and salvage when their L4's take hours to complete. I think CCP made a really bad judgment call here. Not only does it take forever for newer players to earn useful, necessary skills but now it's going to take them forever to make enough isk to actually be able to enjoy what those skills allow them to do.
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Titas Agor
TITANS OF PEACE
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Posted - 2010.05.28 05:54:00 -
[31]
the loot is a joke.. but i never really looted in the first place anyway so dont really bother me that much. Nerfing missions to low-sec even level 4s is totally un-acceptable. Only the lower quality agent lvl 4s wont give you low sec missions coz of their location.
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Rothrin
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Posted - 2010.05.28 06:00:00 -
[32]
Well i have for a long time used the selective loot and salvage method, ie only bs, i tend to do 16 missions at a time and then sell the whole loot and normally get between 150-200 million in loot and salvage, but what this does give me is a way to see how much in wieght 16 missions normally give me, so far in a few missions, i havnt really seen a weight reduction(takeing scraps into account), before it was mainly ammo and drones i would repo anyway, so after the 16 i can tell more.
But the thing i noticed about eve a while back is the strange way missions drop loot anyway, i like to go away for a fwe months and then come back for a few, always when i just come back the first set of mission always have a significant reduction in loot. It like the more missions on a row u do for an agent the more loot you get. So to me anybody trying new agents will have a distorted view of the drops .
As for trying to turn one pve aspect agaisnt another, ie mission runner agaisnt miner that is a very funny thing, maybe cpp got bored of pve v pvp forum rage and decided they want more forum rage variety.
Off topic
As a player who comes and goes, the npc corp works well for me, and as a rule i take the 11% tax on the chin, but the 20 min wait for bountys mean even 10k frig kills are being taxed if u kill more then 11 in a 20 min.
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Arctur Vallfar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 07:03:00 -
[33]
I think it's kind of...pointless. When it comes to missions, which are boring enough as is, my only concern is stacking up bounties and getting some salvage. Loot was always a bonus, but now...well, the extra isk was always nice. This just makes things even duller, however it does give a bigger reason for people to manufacture items.
This, in the end, does make sense and is appreciated.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.28 09:26:00 -
[34]
Quote:
As a player who comes and goes, the npc corp works well for me,
Why take 11% on your chin, when you can make an 1 man corp and adsorb the cost in few minutes?
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Faunker
Caldari
Sinister-Intentions
The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 09:42:00 -
[35]
I myself have noticed this bloody nerf as well over half the salvage missing that usually drops from NPC's , such as Damsel in distress used to drop over3,000cm3 of salvage and loot now barely drops half of that. I guess ganking miners will be my new profession
Sev |
Nagal Sombre
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Posted - 2010.05.28 09:54:00 -
[36]
It seam to be a lot more meta 3/4 loot droping, all those are clearly overpriced stuff on the market, so its not like its hurting anyone is it?  .
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Vitamin B12
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Posted - 2010.05.28 09:56:00 -
[37]
its not only to the loot. you are not able to make missions in a 0.5 sec system anymore. the agent will send to too often to lowsec.
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J Shaft
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.28 09:58:00 -
[38]
Edited by: J Shaft on 28/05/2010 09:59:20
I didn't have time to read the whole thread, but here is my input:
- Ran two dozen of L4s
- Didn't notice improvement in tag drops
- Noticed a slight decrease in salvage (maybe 10%, maybe a little more)
- Loot was about the same for all sub BS ships
- BS rats dropped all the regular stuff they were dropping before except all >200k meta 0 items got replaced with scrap, you know those big juicy guns :)
Other than that, it seems pretty much the same, but 2 dozen missions might not be enough to make good comparison...
EDIT:
I am working for an agent that is neighbouring low sec and i only got 2 missions send me there so far...
Best regards, J. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:13:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
As a player who comes and goes, the npc corp works well for me,
Why take 11% on your chin, when you can make an 1 man corp and adsorb the cost in few minutes?
ąnot to mention that having a corp lets you keep track of your own economy in a far better way and can also help to protect you against some of the more common market and contract scams.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Vitamin B12
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:50:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mr Kidd
I really feel bad for the newer players that just spent the last 3 - 4 months working hard to reach L4's. They are the MOST dependent on loot and salvage when their L4's take hours to complete. I think CCP made a really bad judgment call here. Not only does it take forever for newer players to earn useful, necessary skills but now it's going to take them forever to make enough isk to actually be able to enjoy what those skills allow them to do.
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Rothrin
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:06:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
As a player who comes and goes, the npc corp works well for me,
Why take 11% on your chin, when you can make an 1 man corp and adsorb the cost in few minutes?
i get to meet lots of new people ofc, and pass on some stuff i have learned, ccp seem to forget lots of people get more help from the 4 main starter corps then they ever do from help channel
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August Moondweller
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:43:00 -
[42]
evading NPC corp tax is quite old and unrelated to the loot nerf.
id much rather have a corp that can eventually help with lowsec PVP and reprocessing loot that stay with a empty channel.
i ran two L4 yesterday, one was a courrier mission. i didnt felt a salvage nerf, only the loot nerf.
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CAiNE999
G-Force Enterprises
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 13:15:00 -
[43]
Hmm, ive been ratting in 0.0 for the last few weeks to slowly grind up sec status, i havent run any lvl 4s since the patch, looking at the bs wrecks from belt rats...
This is looking at guristas BS 500k bounties to 1.5m in a lvl 4-5 System
I used to get on average
1-3 cap mods, talking rechargers batteries and injectors
100/200 cruise, torps,large hybrid ammo
1-2 unamed/named cruise/torp launcher
OR
1 railgun named/unamed
salvage wise, 2-3 types, about 3-5 of each depending
Now i seem to get
Same cap mods
Same ammo
1 Scrapmetal without fail
the odd tag, maybe 5-10% of the time, usually crystal
Named cruise/torps (no guns yet since patch deployment, maybe guristas dont like them anymore? )
....and named bs mwd`s worth between 1-4m ?
Usually 1 type of salvage for 3-5 peices
seriously ive hoarded so many Quad-Lifs and the other ones now im gonna end up flooding the market. shame my 0.0 market area sucks. i cant say what empire bs rats are like since i havent popped any, someone care to list the meta 1+ bs weaps they drop?
Personally this nerf doesnt bother me in the slightlest, im getting free named mwd for bs, and i still repro the low meta launchers. however it looks like rig builders will suffer, im getting puny salvage drops.
I own a almost maxxed torp golem pilot on a alt and tbh ill keep the marauder for the facemeltage, the ammo conservation, and the ability to loot BS wrecks.
And finally, a quick dig at cruise golem pilots...
GET A CLUE SON!
Cruise for CNR
Torps for Golem
No one says you cant pop the little dudes whilst you AB into range, they gotta die anyway, besides, 1-3 volleys BS/BC/Cr for 4K+ a hit makes me cream 
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Astald Ohtar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 14:28:00 -
[44]
Originally by: CAiNE999
GET A CLUE SON!
who cares about about the ****y gurista loot, they mostly drop launchers which adoesnt give as much as a tachyon or blasters
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:23:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 28/05/2010 16:23:22
Definitly, I sell my golem before other peps decide to do the same.
Loot isn't as good as it used to be.
LOOT IS DEAD, LONG LIFE TO THE BLITZ!
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PosterBoyOfNothingMuch
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:17:00 -
[46]
Since everyone blitzes, a loot nerf isn't that big a deal, is it?
I did an L4 and got that named MWD. Made up for the lack of big shiny guns. But I only did a grand total of one L4. So a 100% drop rate on an 8M mod? I'll take it.
Only ones really hurt are mission thieves. Any economic attempt is gonna be a drop in the bucket.
And, low-sec? Go further into high sec. No risk, no reward. They complain that PI is riskless money, but isn't missions just as riskless and far more money? (Hint: want to avoid risk in missions, don't take your 3B Rattlesnake. If I can do it in a Drake, and I'm a scientist, you can do it in your pretty Raven.)
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Kirana Si
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:35:00 -
[47]
Run some lvl4s today:
Angel Ex.: 1400 to 1500m¦ loot + salvage before patch, 1000m¦ now ( both numbers are without bonus room )
Vengeance: oddly it seems the same as before patch in loot m¦ as I had to drop the cap booster to get the more valuable loot in my cargo )
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sabre906
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:47:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kirana Si
Run some lvl4s today:
Angel Ex.: 1400 to 1500m¦ loot + salvage before patch, 1000m¦ now ( both numbers are without bonus room )
Vengeance: oddly it seems the same as before patch in loot m¦ as I had to drop the cap booster to get the more valuable loot in my cargo )
Is that including or not including scrap metals
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Kirana Si
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: sabre906
Originally by: Kirana Si
Run some lvl4s today:
Angel Ex.: 1400 to 1500m¦ loot + salvage before patch, 1000m¦ now ( both numbers are without bonus room )
Vengeance: oddly it seems the same as before patch in loot m¦ as I had to drop the cap booster to get the more valuable loot in my cargo )
Is that including or not including scrap metals
was with scrap metals but there were only a few in each mission.
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Vitamin B12
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:05:00 -
[50]
everytime i see one scrap metal in a battleship it sounds like "yoyo this could be a nice loot. but now PATCHED! move away!!". seriously? why one metal scraps just make the ****in wreck empty!! 
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Mechael
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:06:00 -
[51]
From the point of view of an avid trader, this is a very welcome change. It's gonna do wonders for the economy. I'm not really an avid forums guy, though, but I found this when I was checking to see if the changes had actually gone through or not (as I don't mission,) and so I'm not gonna go into specifics. But I gotta give kudos to CCP for this one! Mucho gusto!
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:31:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Vitamin B12
everytime i see one scrap metal in a battleship it sounds like "yoyo this could be a nice loot. but now PATCHED! move away!!". seriously? why one metal scraps just make the ****in wreck empty!!
Yeah.
Puting only one scrap is evil. I mean: i only tractor / salvage non-empty large wrecks... Because there was always something juicy. Now with the ****in srap i can't make the difference between a good full wreck and a crap wreck.
F***ck you ccp.
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Lemming Alpha1dash1
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:44:00 -
[53]
CCP you dont honestly think a 1 on 1 swap between meta zero loot for a piece of scrap metal is fair ?
you promised also more tag drops so plz uphold that part and we can use it for the LP store too regain
our lost isk from the meta zero loot nerf and sell shiny faction stuff instead of reprocessed loot.
If you truely get rid of all the ninja salvagers because of the this,
since all the missioners are blitzing than you have my thanks
Guessing the lower end meta stuff will be made on the planets, mining planets that way is still mining
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Becka Periakias
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Posted - 2010.05.29 00:37:00 -
[54]
My first mission after the Tyrannis changes was Massive Attack, Serpentis. Three pockets, 10 battleships, eight battlecruisers. Frigates and cruisers had the typical meta 0 drops. Plus a couple of meta 1 and maybe 2 items, like ECM.
All the battle cruisers were empty hulls. Most of the BS also empty. Had five solids, those were (you guessed it) scrapmetal, one per wreck. Quality 18 agent: bounties, mission reward and bonus came to about 12 million. Rig parts (included five armor plates) came to about 2.3 million.
I used to compulsively loot and salvage. It's why I trained scrap metal processing up to lvl 3. No more. Now I'll do like buddies have been advising me for months, and blitz.
Disappointing, but I can live with the loot nerf. What I'm most worried about is the agents sending me to low security. I haven't tried my high sec bordering low sec system agents yet. We'll see how that goes.
Worked for months to set up my prime missioning hub in an out-of-the-way, less busy system. If my two Minmatar agents persist on sending me to low security, that means I'll end up abandoning what I worked so long to set up. And that might mean the end of Eve as far as I'm concerned. 
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Gilbarun
THE-FEDERATION
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Posted - 2010.05.29 04:31:00 -
[55]
i dont like the fact that i looted 5 Y-T8 MWDs in the last 2 days :(
they are worthless now :(
-Gil
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2010.05.29 04:43:00 -
[56]
Is there a use for scrap metal? Personally I'd rather have a simple reduction of loot than replacing with that ****.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
There is no maximum quota placed on the amount a player can scam from others, provided he/she is using legitimate, in-game methods.
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 05:13:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dacryphile
Is there a use for scrap metal? Personally I'd rather have a simple reduction of loot than replacing with that ****.
Reprocess it, turns into trit. So... no, not really.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.29 06:50:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/05/2010 06:53:13
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
Originally by: Vitamin B12
everytime i see one scrap metal in a battleship it sounds like "yoyo this could be a nice loot. but now PATCHED! move away!!". seriously? why one metal scraps just make the ****in wreck empty!!
Yeah.
Puting only one scrap is evil. I mean: i only tractor / salvage non-empty large wrecks... Because there was always something juicy. Now with the ****in srap i can't make the difference between a good full wreck and a crap wreck.
F***ck you ccp.
Because CCP loot table need something in the slot where the previous item was removed.
From my limited test it appear that Serpentis have been hit hard as most of the loot rewards for Serp NPC were the different blasters.
Missions runners at least can avoid Serp missions, but I pity ratters in the regions with Serp NPC.
They will be hit hard.
Originally by: Von Kapiche
Originally by: Dacryphile
Is there a use for scrap metal? Personally I'd rather have a simple reduction of loot than replacing with that ****.
Reprocess it, turns into trit. So... no, not really.
At least reinforced scrapmetal is a passable compression item 5:1.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.05.29 07:11:00 -
[59]
Single units of metal scraps. Worthless junk in the few BS wrecks I found with loot in them. One large armor rep was the highlight of my day.
Rather annoyed that they removed an aspect of missioning (as in, made non-viable). There's really no reason to attempt to loot at this point, like it wasn't even very good before... blitzing was already better, now it's just no contest.
Do not bother looting. Praise CCP for making missions even more uninteresting.
But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.05.29 07:20:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Because CCP loot table need something in the slot where the previous item was removed.
From my limited test it appear that Serpentis have been hit hard as most of the loot rewards for Serp NPC were the different blasters.
Missions runners at least can avoid Serp missions, but I pity ratters in the regions with Serp NPC.
They will be hit hard.
I fight mostly Serps, perhaps that is why I'm only seeing worthless wrecks. Still, what a joke making loot just worthless for a faction. I'm sure blood / sansha are in the same boat though since they dropped a lot of large lasers. Those were pretty much the reason to loot. Now what do we have? No reason to loot 
Irritating...
But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
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Aldous Zakalwe
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:40:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
Originally by: Vitamin B12
everytime i see one scrap metal in a battleship it sounds like "yoyo this could be a nice loot. but now PATCHED! move away!!". seriously? why one metal scraps just make the ****in wreck empty!!
Yeah.
Puting only one scrap is evil. I mean: i only tractor / salvage non-empty large wrecks... Because there was always something juicy. Now with the ****in srap i can't make the difference between a good full wreck and a crap wreck.
F***ck you ccp.
I totally agree. The 1 metal scrap is a condescending slap in the face. Nothing else.
Other than that it seems mission runners are taking the fall for macro miners. Now where are your actions against them CCP? |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.05.29 15:55:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Aldous Zakalwe
Other than that it seems mission runners are taking the fall for macro miners. Now where are your actions against them CCP?
You're kidding, right? unholy rage
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Goose99
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:52:00 -
[63]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Aldous Zakalwe
Other than that it seems mission runners are taking the fall for macro miners. Now where are your actions against them CCP?
You're kidding, right? unholy rage
That was a year ago.
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Drek Grapper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 17:05:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Gilbarun
i dont like the fact that i looted 5 Y-T8 MWDs in the last 2 days :(
they are worthless now :(
-Gil
This...
--
"If itĘs true that our species is alone in the universe, then IĘd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little" George Carlin |
SunBracer
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:01:00 -
[65]
I'm relatively new to Eve and looting with my corp mates really helped me pay for new ships, ship fittings, implants and skill books. Looting (and later salvaging) worked wonders in terms of generating an income for me as a new player. More experienced players would go into a room and get the bounties and then the new players (like myself) would jump in afterwards and do looting and salvaging. Sometimes I would also share in the bounties depending on the setup, the size of the fleet etc. Sometimes I would make informal agreements with mission runners and just loot for myself and salvage for the mission runner. Level 1 missions really pay pittance, so it was a fantastic experience looting and selling items worth MILLIONS of ISK (big guns, armor plating- Mmmmmmmmm...).
This was a sacrifice on the part of more experienced players (they could loot and salvage themselves), but they consoled themselves with the fact that at least the loot didn't go to waste and that new players would get much needed ISK. New players in fact DO need large amounts of ISK up front to procure skillbooks and implants.I vowed that I would help out new players by letting them do missions with me- just like I was helped. Loot is accessible to the newest player even without a tractor beam fitted.
Now that a lot of the loot has been removed this means that the bounties are the main source of income for both the mission runners and the new players who are desperate for ISK. I actually now need to be in the room with the mission runner and share in the bounties to generate any substantial income (instead of previously just selling loot). The mission runner must now also be wary of the novice player's actions and might even be blamed if something goes wrong. The result is that the incentive to bring along new players has suffered a huge blow. Whereas there were two steady streams of mission income (loot/salvage and bounties) now there is only one main high-risk one namely 'bounties' and a smaller safer one namely 'salvage'.
All I can say is that with the reduction in loot and the need for me to generate HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of ISK to buy new ships, fittings and implants for my character (and salvage needed for manufacturing) there is no incentive to bring along new players. This would only compromise my income and production chain and would substantially delay my character's earnings and skill development at this point in time.
With the huge money sink needed for upgrades my position is that: Loot one can pass on, bounties one cannot. In addition to new players being denied this looting opportunity, I myself feel cheated by CCP post-Tyrannis since I've spent all my time up till now trying to get to level 4 missions, so that I can get both the bounties and the loot (only to find the latter being snatched away from me while other people had this going for years).
In the missioning world new players will now toil an eternity to get standings and ISK on their own. The other alternative of course is mining which I now recommend to anyone starting the game. The reason? With the removal of loot, mining is now very similiar to missioning. Players like myself are just stuck in missioning, because they spent so much time and skill training on it already. The one area pays in bounties and salvage the other one in minerals.
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Afrodite Draconis
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:31:00 -
[66]
These tears are so delicious.
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Sae'a
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:55:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Afrodite Draconis
These tears are so delicious.
the stupid repeating of this sentence shows a clearly empty head
at least the whole eve universe will be affected from this, so you better ask some friends to think for you
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Afrodite Draconis
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:57:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Sae'a
Originally by: Afrodite Draconis
These tears are so delicious.
the stupid repeating of this sentence shows a clearly empty head
at least the whole eve universe will be affected from this, so you better ask some friends to think for you
Cry some more?
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Sae'a
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:03:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Afrodite Draconis
Originally by: Sae'a
Originally by: Afrodite Draconis
These tears are so delicious.
the stupid repeating of this sentence shows a clearly empty head
at least the whole eve universe will be affected from this, so you better ask some friends to think for you
Cry some more?
no, why shouldt i?
try to use your brain, it might help, even if the feeling is unusual
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Becka Periakias
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Posted - 2010.05.30 21:23:00 -
[70]
Finally had some free time to run another mission. First mission (details on page 2) had one tag, 5 scrapmetal, no meta 3 or 4 items, a couple meta 1 or 2 in the cruisers.
Second mission was Buzz Kill, so only 4 BC and 4 BS (Angels). This time, no tags at all. But I got 2 meta 3 mwds (Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon 1 Microwarpdrive), which seems to be the norm now.
Salvage included 9 alloyed tritium bars and 9 armor plates.
So ... Quality 13 agent, in high security, Buzz Kill mission, netted me about 5.4 million isk from loot and salvage (not counting the meta 0 that was reprocessed) along with about 15.4 million in bounties, rewards and mission time bonus. Not bad for an hour and a half of work (I ran it in my Ishtar for fun, not efficiency).
Oh, and this is an agent located in .8 Caldari space, next door to a .4 system. Mission was in the same system as my agent ... no multiple jumps through low security as some have reported.
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Rolare
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.30 21:51:00 -
[71]
Originally by: SunBracer
Lots of stuff.
Why the hell would a new player need millions upon millions of ISK? I mean, my own expenses were quite low when it came to fittings and I only paid half price for new ships, but that was because of our small two-corp Alliance (yay for corp-hangar and indy alliance mate).
It was highly favourable for the newer lot in our corp (which was like, all of us xD) but the money I saved propably goes up to max 30mill and well, that ain't horribly much.
So I don't see how newer players are financially crippled by this :l
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Whattis
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Posted - 2010.05.30 22:02:00 -
[72]
Here is my feedback: I sold my 3 bil mission ship and am waiting for drake skills to make my fortune in the less concordy regions of space, learning the ways of the unprotected while I train up to what I think will be a tengu.
I was always curious to see what plexing and wormholes and anoms were like, this nerf gave me the push I needed.
See you on the killmails! |
JimboDeath
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Posted - 2010.05.30 22:59:00 -
[73]
Let me make this perfectly clear and short.
My time playing eve has gone from fun to f#@$ this. Fun was, logging on, fly a L5 mission near home base, sayin hi to my friends, and getting the f*&# out.
Now my game has turned from an arcade-styled evening into some perverted CCP form of cycling agents until my L5 carebear needs are fulfilled. I dont care what others do in this game, Im not one to get all ultra involved in wtf's plans, plots, or deceptions. If this was ultimately what you crazy a$$ed developers wanted...I have just one more follow-up question for you:
Did you just want to run my missions for me too, while I still pay for my account?
Sincerely,
Ihavepurchasedmylast30-dayPLEX
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Spatiopathe
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Posted - 2010.05.30 23:08:00 -
[74]
i rate with pirate BS. machariel AC
(600m/s, x-large, 800+dps with gun, good tracking and 60+km of falloff.)
I kill fast and proper, i collect all bounty i can, and use a tractor for loot BS wreck.
in fact the salvage is a waste of time for me.
So i earn isk with:
bounty: no change. 20-40m/hour depend of mission.
LP: no change. ratio of 2m/1000LP, and with my agent, 10-25000 LP/h..
loot: few change, i always have big guns to sell.
finally an average of 30m of bounty+ 30m of LP +10m of loot by good hour..
total average of 70m/hour, thats pretty good enough for me.
many missioner lost of sight the LP value, just earn time, do big dps, have a fast ship, dont waste your time with looting small and emdium wreck, or crap salvaging npc.
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mr hippy
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Posted - 2010.05.31 00:21:00 -
[75]
so ok, stuffs changed, people going way off topic on a tangent as ususal on here...
i live in the drone regions. fair the alloy refining values have changed but what is with the massive drop in quantities. as we all very well know drones do not have bounty prizes. ive gone from filling 550m/3 from 3 battleships (100-150 glossy, 95-100 plush, 17-18 opulent,250-350motley, 120-150 lustering) to more like 300m3 of (30-50 glossy, 70-90 plush, 17-18 opulent and the low low end alloys. WTF?! where the lustering and motley gone!??!
so now instead of averaging 1.2-1.5m a battleship im averaging 700k, whereas anywhere else in 0-0 you get a bounty prize of that alone and a loot drop.
unless market values stabalise soon its uneconomical to live there and will have to evac. taking a 30-40% hit in income currently
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Cake Isalie
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Posted - 2010.05.31 01:06:00 -
[76]
Maybe the 40% income nerf will be replenished with PI income.
How much isk PI will generate remains to be seen. Roll on 8th June and CCP's hidden plans.
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crimson fire
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Posted - 2010.05.31 05:44:00 -
[77]
The relative value of LP was raised, that means the incentive to do low sec lvl 5 was raised.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.31 06:20:00 -
[78]
Quote:
The reason? With the removal of loot, mining is now very similiar to missioning.
Difficulty wise, it's similar but I wish it gave the same rewards.
I have more T2 mining ships than missioning ships.
Quote:
I dont care what others do in this game,
It's fair to reply that the others don't care of what you do in this game as well. Nor if you quit EvE.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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SunBracer
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Posted - 2010.06.02 05:52:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Rolare
Originally by: SunBracer
Lots of stuff.
Why the hell would a new player need millions upon millions of ISK? I mean, my own expenses were quite low when it came to fittings and I only paid half price for new ships, but that was because of our small two-corp Alliance (yay for corp-hangar and indy alliance mate).
It was highly favourable for the newer lot in our corp (which was like, all of us xD) but the money I saved propably goes up to max 30mill and well, that ain't horribly much.
So I don't see how newer players are financially crippled by this :l
Less income equals lower quality implants. This means slower learning and subsequently lower level skills over a longer period than can be achieved. This then translates into less income/standings over a longer period regardless of your role (mining/combat/trade/industry). The same can be said for ships and fittings. New players might be under the impression that they're doing well, but in the greater scheme of things they are just gimping along. More loot (read 'income') means quicker career advancement.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Reckoning.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 06:23:00 -
[80]
Quote:
Less income equals lower quality implants. This means slower learning and subsequently lower level skills over a longer period than can be achieved. This then translates into less income/standings over a longer period regardless of your role (mining/combat/trade/industry). The same can be said for ships and fittings. New players might be under the impression that they're doing well, but in the greater scheme of things they are just gimping along. More loot (read 'income') means quicker career advancement.
Oh noes it takes longer to get implants?! . People who fly in lowsec/0.0 are podded relatively consistently ensuring that they cannot simply have a full set of +5s all the time. The minuscule loss of training time for having to do a mission or two more to buy that +5 set is nothing.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.06.02 09:28:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 02/06/2010 09:28:58
Quote:
Oh noes it takes longer to get implants?! . People who fly in lowsec/0.0 are podded relatively consistently ensuring that they cannot simply have a full set of +5s all the time. The minuscule loss of training time for having to do a mission or two more to buy that +5 set is nothing.
I had indeed to waste TONS of SP because I had to jump clone to be sure not to lose implants in 0.0 too often.
Sometimes it looks like before Tyrannis there were two games: those who had to follow EvE's quite harsh rules, to always compromise "best" with "possible", to always pick between non optimal choice. To always pay consequences. To face competition and fierce territorial fights.
And another half of the game, where the only preoccupation was how to fit the new deadspace mod in the forest of the others.
Welcome to EvE.
-
Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:41:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Noran Ferah on 02/06/2010 11:41:22
Originally by: Cake Isalie
Maybe the 40% income nerf will be replenished with PI income.
How much isk PI will generate remains to be seen. Roll on 8th June and CCP's hidden plans.
Boy that sounds like FUN!
Not.
Pins on a map != any kind of fun. In fact, it is being forced on the community by the simple removal of necessary commodities from the seeded market.
When I can fly by and bombard it from orbit, that will be fun. Everything else in this damn game is pvp, why not that?
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:58:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Noran Ferah
When I can fly by and bombard it from orbit, that will be fun. Everything else in this damn game is pvp, why not that?
It is, just not in the way you want it to be. You have to share resources with other players using the same planets.
But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
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Ugly Eric
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:21:00 -
[84]
My experience of missioning and ratting is pretty limited. Missioning I have always done by blitzing in fleets, ratting I newer bothered to loot, as the main reason to rat was my sec. And when ratting for isk, newer had a "secure" space where to do it, so the loot was not worth to pick up. Chain the rats, and enjoy the bounties.
But the change. In my oppinion this is taking eve to better direction. And no, I am not talking about getting people to lowsec to be killed, or more miners to be killed. I my eyes this takes eves economy even more to the hands of a player away from CCP. The PI will make a completely new set of "free income" to eve. It will cover the 40% or so loss of missionrunning iskies. Think of it as a step towards 100% playerbased economy. It can ofcourse be achieved as long as the game ought to be EvE, but we getting closer to it.
People here cry and whine and ragequit beacause they cannot be doing what they have been doing so far. They actually haveto train something else to do. Thats evolution. It really is a good thing for a game like this. It evolves.
The thing that always bothered me the most with missionrunners are how they actually are able to keep doing the same thing year after year. Why pay monthly subscription of a MMO, when playing a singleplayergame? They (the ones I know atleast) have also a ton of SP in PvP skills, but newer do they actually need them. Few carebears of my alliance has ****load of better PvP skills (sp wise) than I do, but not a single time has anybody of them put them to any use at all. I always saw missionrunning as a stepway to beginners towards the "true" content of eve. PvP that is. I used it so, so hence why I see it like that. It was a way to spend time until happy with some skills. Good way to learn how to actually fly a ship (not including domis or any caldari missionrunners). You learned hoe the ship behaves.
Now, This lootnerf really is a good thing for miners. The mineral prizes go upwards for two reasons. The meta0 crap is no longer a major mineral source and secondly the incurance policy that no longer sets the maximum price to the all mineral average prize, as it did before. Now the insurance is to follow mineral prices, not vice versa as it was earlier. So this is actually balancing the game yet more. After few weeks of searching its place, the mineral prices comes up to a level, so that a miner can make roughly the same isk/hour than a missionrunner could. Yes, mining is boring, but tbh, it is just as boring as missionrunning.
And to the endword. All the people claiming here to be paying their last subscription, I am happy for that, beacause you apparently wasn't playing the right game. This one is to be as good to all players, not just you. Heck, train up your PI skills (rl and sp), take few planets, and train a hauler. Now contigniue missionrunnig, and suprise suprise, your hourly iskmaking is the same as before, but with less work. Now you only haul few runs a day/week/month and get the same amount of isk than earlier with that big project of looting, salvaging and reprocessing the ****.
Ugly Eric
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RedSplat
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:34:00 -
[85]
Edited by: RedSplat on 02/06/2010 13:38:40
Your zero risk high income level 4 missions were bad for the game.
HTFU
Either zero risk mid level income, or high risk high income. Choose one.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.
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Goose99
|
Posted - 2010.06.02 14:19:00 -
[86]
Originally by: RedSplat
Edited by: RedSplat on 02/06/2010 13:38:40
Your zero risk high income level 4 missions were bad for the game.
HTFU
Either zero risk mid level income, or high risk high income. Choose one.
Don't give that risk vs reward garbage. It means you're either a noob that don't know how sov null is or a troll that knew but trolls anyway.
In some of those backwater sov nulls, you can go on for weeks without seeing a single hostile. You're more likely to get suicide ganked in highsec hubs. It's plex famville on steroids out here. Zero risk, huge rewards.
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Ugly Eric
|
Posted - 2010.06.03 06:54:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: RedSplat
Edited by: RedSplat on 02/06/2010 13:38:40
Your zero risk high income level 4 missions were bad for the game.
HTFU
Either zero risk mid level income, or high risk high income. Choose one.
Don't give that risk vs reward garbage. It means you're either a noob that don't know how sov null is or a troll that knew but trolls anyway.
In some of those backwater sov nulls, you can go on for weeks without seeing a single hostile. You're more likely to get suicide ganked in highsec hubs. It's plex famville on steroids out here. Zero risk, huge rewards.
Zero risk now. Somebody still has worked wery hard to get that place to zero risk. Under that time there has been huge risk. And that somebody, who actually has worked to get the space safe, actually deserves it.
And if you'r talking about just regular roamer in deep 0.0 plexing, or missioning. Yes, there may be occations, when you get to do that in peace, but then again, there may come a week or a month, that you just sit in cloak waiting for a window to gtfo from that system. And those NPC 0.0 station systems. You can go and get a mission from there, but if youre not a "dweller" of that system, you have pretty high risk being camped to the station, or gates of the system.
Eric
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