GǪbut since that advantage can be had in numerous other ways, it's not an advantage that you have to pay for, thus no P2W.

But it is an advantage that you can pay for, and thus p2w.

But it is an advantage that you can pay for, and thus p2w.

Everyone can earn the isk so its not like some have some sort of advantage another group dont have access to.

GǪexcept that it doesn't lead to any GǣwinGǥ because the same advantage is available to those you're competing against, and they didn't pay for it.

It's very easy:

One team consists of 10 pilots flying an assortment of ships.
The other team consists of 10 pilots flying the same assortment of ships.

Which of these two teams have paid for anything? Which of these two teams will win?

Do skill and equipment, given equal numbers of equally skilled players on each side, one with alts, one without, successfully trump or at least give the same advantage as offgrid boosting alts, falcon alts, static scout alts?

But it's still an advantage that you pay for. Not only that, but paying for it gets you the advantage more quickly than earning it in game does (unless you're making more isk/time than you get by spending a few minutes on the website making the purchase) which is a unique advantage in and of itself.

Put that way, unique golden ammo doesn't lead to a win either.

You can magic a very valuable thing into the game with real money.

If some fool wants to pay for something I get for free so be it. I dont see any advantage they can buy that I cant get for free.

Time, just to name the most obvious one.

I made 2 billion isk while at work not playing EVE today.

Point 1 is still not something that can only be done with alts, no matter how much you bold it. You can ask corpmates (or others) to perform those tasks. I know this because I have seen it on numerous occasions. In fact, entire third-party services are available to do some of those things, which blows your entire point out of the water.

GǪyou're back to comparing option 1 with option 2 and ignoring option 3. You're describing a choice not to get advantages to the choice of doing so. Again, this has nothing to do with alts GÇö alts could be substituted for any of the other options without altering the issue. Again, bolding it doesn't change this simple fact.

The advantage you're talking about is still numbers, not alts. That advantage can be had or can be compensated for in numerous ways. Your bullheaded insistence that one team simply must not be allowed to choose doesn't change the fact that they can and that a number of options are available.

And you could have made 2.5billion if you had spent the extra 2 minutes to purchase a PLEX.

Why? I just wait for other people to buy a PLEX and spend it on my goods.

You have to include the alts in the numbers. If you have two teams one that has 8 actual players and 1 alt neurtal scout an 1 alt off grid booster compared to a team that has 10 actual players including an out of corp scout and an off grid booster (believe it or not people do fly T3 boosters in fleets as their mains) be edge would actually go to the team with 10 real players because non of them would be having to switch their attention between different accounts.

Tell me which do you really think is more effective, a Falcon played by someone who's having to also manage another ship in the fight a Falcon played by a player who's only paying attention to managing his jams?

Because you can make even more money even more quickly buy buying PLEX for real money. Isn't that obvious?

It's like you do it on purpose.

Team A and Team B are each made of 10 players
5 of team B players control 3 alts each moreover, 5 of those 10 supplementary alts are static scouts + offgrid booster, the other 5 are fighting ships requiring little micro (snipers for example, warp in lock all and change target when it's down)
Team A has no alts, but has a fleet of 30 FRIENDS ships coming to help...which will be spotted by the static alts

Guess who will do the most damage, then break off and dock?

You missed something key, here. There PLEX item itself is worth ISK and is magicked into the game whenever someone pays CCP. That it is a liability until used is both irrelevant and a fallacy. Whether someone uses it or not, CCP still gets the money. There could be a million of them backed up in the EVE markets, and it wouldn't matter because they've all already been paid bought and paid for. In reality, CCP makes extra money from un-used PLEXes, because all that really means is that more subscription time has been purchased than has been applied. People are paying them for stuff that they're not even using. And it's still totally irrelevent to whether or not this is a pay to win mechanic, because even if PLEX were somehow not magicked into the game, the fact remains that you can still get an in-game thing with real money.

Where do you think all of that plex money goes? People buy a plex, spend it on ships/mods/ammo and then my wallet blinks. I have zero need to spend real money on isk because I have plenty of other people just throwing it at me.

But you cannot realistically ask this of other people.

Also, the case studied is the https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1652093#post1652093 (which are a metagame, not ingame choice). A solo player as in, a player who wants to do stuff on his own, being at a disadvantage vs an alt-funding player.

Your option 3 does not exist in this scenario

Given equal numbers of equally skilled players on each side, which side will win, the one using alts, or the one without?

The fact remains that you could purchase something like 28 PLEX per day to bolster your income by an additional roughly 14 billion ISK per day (at current market prices.)

The fact remains that you could purchase something like 28 PLEX per day to bolster your income by an additional roughly 14 billion ISK per day (at current market prices.) That's in addition to whatever you're already making. If you don't see how that's buying an advantage, then you're beyond my help.

You can, and people do. They may also use alts, but that's just another option. It's not the only alternative.

That's his choice, not a lack of options. It's completely unrelated to alts.

Yes it does. It always does. That's the thing: you've never been able to show an advantage where that third option does not exist GÇö you've only been able to show scenarios where people choose not to make use of any kind of advantage.

The one that has the advantage will usually win. What the advantage is is completely arbitrary. Alts is not the issue here GÇö it's an question of using and not using the advantages available to you. If one side chooses to use one set of advantages (e.g. alts) the other side can choose to use some other set of advantages (e.g. more people).

14billion isk spent on stuff I sell = 14 billion sent to people like me. The more people buy the happier and richer I get. Im also willing to bet that there are exactly zero people spending that much of their paycheck on an internet spaceship game. If they are then they spending more in a day than any alliance out there including goons.

GǪand the fact remains that ISK can be made in numerous ways and that the time spend to afford those PLEXes is time spent not pulling every trick in the book to earn more ISK.

But they don't.

Since he's solo

GǪand the fact remains that ISK can be made in numerous ways and that the time spend to afford those PLEXes is time spent not pulling every trick in the book to earn more ISK.

It's like you do it on purpose, comparing an equal number of characters ingame, while I'm comparing an equal number of RL players.

Team A and Team B are each made of 10 players
5 of team B players control 3 alts each moreover, 5 of those 10 supplementary alts are static scouts + offgrid booster, the other 5 are fighting ships requiring little micro (snipers for example, warp in lock all and change target when it's down)
Team A has no alts, but has a fleet of 30 FRIENDS ships coming to help...which will be spotted by the static alts

Guess who will do the most damage, then break off and dock?