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Not a mac troll but...ú2553 for this?

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Torque Daisy Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.06.02 22:30:00 - [1] Edited by: Torque Daisy on 02/06/2010 22:30:31 http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro?mco=OTY2ODEwNw 8-Core Two 2.26GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Nehalem" processors 6GB (six 1GB) memory [six sticks is dead cheap, and to upgrade ram from this yourself would involve chucking ram] 640GB hard drive [lol?] 18x double-layer SuperDrive [not even blu ray] NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB [ok what the....] This is not a troll, I genuinely don't understand the price tag, the only expensive components are the cpus coming in at ú600max for both, and that's retail/boxed. nice case etc but i can't place at least ú1000.
Misstress Iteron	Posted - 2010.06.02 22:34:00 - [2] You forgot the cost of the apple.
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2010.06.02 22:34:00 - [3] +1k for the privilege of the almighty Apple. Just buy the parts online and assemble a computer yourself, you'll always be ripped off buying pre-built ones. _ Oh, mighty pole-up-ass-ee! The link to a page which did not even leave the domain which you clicked entirely voluntarily and so deeply offended you has been removed! Cheeez
Bodrul Caldari Polaris Rising The Spire Collective	Posted - 2010.06.02 22:35:00 - [4] they are over hyped and over priced for that price you could rig up a computer with way better performance and still be able to upgrade it in the future O_o ........ "Accept responsibility for your life. Know that it is you who will get you where you want to go, no one else." - Les Brown# ........
Finder NSA	Posted - 2010.06.02 23:07:00 - [5] it is a mac troll...but in general they deserve it.
Atomos Darksun The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.02 23:50:00 - [6] Yay Macintrash! Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Linkification, Baby.
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2010.06.03 01:06:00 - [7] Dear trolls, The exact same spec HP desktop is ú3000 inc. VAT with the only advantage over the Mac being the basic Quadro graphics card and 3 years onsite parts and labour: Linkage You all fail. Please try harder next time. - MC
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2010.06.03 01:13:00 - [8] Apologies, it's even more than ú3000 because I under-specced the second processor and the hard drive. - MC
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.03 02:29:00 - [9] Edited by: Ella C''Tronix on 03/06/2010 02:36:44 They're reliable beasts of burden. You don't replace them as frequently as you do PCs if you take care of them. Though they occasionally have manufacturing defects like anything else, but that's what a warranty is for. They also retain their value to a degree, unlike your typical Windows PC. While you never get a good return on your investment, you can get a decent amount for a well-kept machine if you had some reason to be rid of it. Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Zions Child Caldari Carthage Industries	Posted - 2010.06.03 04:38:00 - [10] Originally by: Ella C'Tronix Edited by: Ella C''Tronix on 03/06/2010 02:36:44 They're reliable beasts of burden. You don't replace them as frequently as you do PCs if you take care of them. Though they occasionally have manufacturing defects like anything else, but that's what a warranty is for. They also retain their value to a degree, unlike your typical Windows PC. While you never get a good return on your investment, you can get a decent amount for a well-kept machine if you had some reason to be rid of it. This is @ the poster above you, Ella: Try reading comprehension, it might help you in the future. My system is almost, but not quite, as good as the mac listed, with three times the hard drive space, a blu ray burner (the fastest available, I might add), a bit less ram, yes, but higher clock speed, faster processor (although only one of them...), a MUCH better graphics card, a powerful cooling system, and a few useful amenities. All of this for under 1000 pounds. Oh, and I can put whatever the frick I feel like on it, like Linux. Its called building your own, something you can't ever possibly do with a mac, because Mssr. Jobs, decided to go ** on the specifications of his computers. Admittedly, you don't have to install drivers, and you can be sure it works, but hey, the tiniest bit of research will net you a working, self-made computer 4 times better than a mac at 4/5ths the cost. This is towards you now, Ella: Its not difficult to keep a PC clean, and well working. Also, if you bought a warranty, you aren't completely *ed the moment something dies. Try getting a replacement part for a 4 year old mac. Tell me how that works for you. You can also upgrade a PC, something a mac limits you severely with. Also, Macs are even less* secure than a PC, they only evade most viruses because they're only 10% of the market. I took care of my last PC, upgraded it once, and it was a cheap, crappy Dell Dimension 3000 hand-me-down, that was 8 years old. It still works. I'm running SETI@home on it. So there. You can keep a PC running quite well, with no issues, for 10 years if you really wanted to. And it doesn't get any more outdated than a mac. Less so, because you can actually upgrade a PC rather easily. Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.03 05:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Zions Child This is @ the poster above you, Ella: Try reading comprehension, it might help you in the future. My system is almost, but not quite, as good as the mac listed, with three times the hard drive space, a blu ray burner (the fastest available, I might add), a bit less ram, yes, but higher clock speed, faster processor (although only one of them...), a MUCH better graphics card, a powerful cooling system, and a few useful amenities. All of this for under 1000 pounds. Oh, and I can put whatever the frick I feel like on it, like Linux. Its called building your own, something you can't ever possibly do with a mac, because Mssr. Jobs, decided to go ** on the specifications of his computers. Admittedly, you don't have to install drivers, and you can be sure it works, but hey, the tiniest bit of research will net you a working, self-made computer 4 times better than a mac at 4/5ths the cost. This is towards you now, Ella: Its not difficult to keep a PC clean, and well working. Also, if you bought a warranty, you aren't completely *ed the moment something dies. Try getting a replacement part for a 4 year old mac. Tell me how that works for you. You can also upgrade a PC, something a mac limits you severely with. Also, Macs are even less* secure than a PC, they only evade most viruses because they're only 10% of the market. I took care of my last PC, upgraded it once, and it was a cheap, crappy Dell Dimension 3000 hand-me-down, that was 8 years old. It still works. I'm running SETI@home on it. So there. You can keep a PC running quite well, with no issues, for 10 years if you really wanted to. And it doesn't get any more outdated than a mac. Less so, because you can actually upgrade a PC rather easily. I don't know why I bother with the mac vs pc things, it's just a bunch of stubborn people not seeing eye to eye. If you've got PC configurations that work for you, great, but despite being a security/computer saavy/whatever person who knows how to maintain either types of machines, macs have always been far more reliable short and long term in my line(s) of work. If I was only gaming, a PC would make more sense due to the rapidly evolving nature of gaming hardware requirements and the ability to get into it for cheap or buy more modular-like. The "you can't upgrade a mac" thing is mostly BS, however. If you buy an iMac/all-in-one type thing, that's one thing but you can swap most things out on most of the computers, especially the tower systems. You talk about things like size of hard drives and whatever... you can put whatever you want in most machines. The only stipulation is that when buying directly from apple, they overcharge in particular on extra upgrades like RAM, HD sizes, etc. I think these kinds of "arguments" take place with no resolve because people are arguing about 2 different things on two different fronts. I could never use a winblows/linux/whatever based machine for anything I do professionally. Even if all the software was available, winblows isn't reliable enough and hogs too many resources, and linux would be a nice thing to explore if there was commercial support for it from the software publishers behind things I need in the professional world. Also, PCs work much better in the hands of enthusiasts/hobbyists/etc - people who have the time, knowledge, energy, desire to tinker with them to make them run at their finest. I'm perfectly capable of all of that, but a) I don't have the time or energy anymore, I have important things to do and internet spaceships to crash and b) even after it's all said and done, they're still not reliable enough. There's too many damned variables if you're using your machine for multiple purposes. If you're using winblows, all of their OSes are filled with absolutely horrible security holes and performance bugs, to an extent greater than the worst of competing OSes (even if that is OS X to you). Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Cikulisuy Amarr The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.03 05:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Mother Clanger Dear trolls, The exact same spec HP desktop is ú3000 inc. VAT with the only advantage over the Mac being the basic Quadro graphics card and 3 years onsite parts and labour: Linkage You all fail. Please try harder next time. - MC i've seen a 72 core box with a decent card for 1.5 grand. these are all rip-offs, and other people doing it doesn't make it better. nub> you cant mine so you kill.
Feng Schui Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.06.03 05:50:00 - [13] could be worse.. my workstation is going on the fritz, so I'm looking at this APEXX8 Eight Six-Core AMD« OpteronÖ processors Dual NVIDIA« Quadro« FX cards 256GB RAM 15 SAS Drives (22.5TB) Boxx Tech Sad as it is.. I'm gonna be in debt for the rest of my life; not on tuition, house loans, or car loans.. but friggin computer loans QQ Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.06.03 08:07:00 - [14] Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 03/06/2010 08:07:15 Originally by: Mother Clanger Dear trolls, The exact same spec HP desktop is ú3000 inc. VAT with the only advantage over the Mac being the basic Quadro graphics card and 3 years onsite parts and labour: Linkage You all fail. Please try harder next time. - MC The main cost-driver in the configuration you posted is the graphics card. Quadro's in general cost $1000 or more since they're "business solution" cards, even though they're essentially normal cards with a new bios (and generally of the highest possible quality, but no new architecture). The GT 120 in that mac can't cost more than $80 or so. Not exactly a fair comparison.
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2010.06.03 08:42:00 - [15] Nobody buys the upgrades from Apple though - you get the base machine with your CPU of choice from Apple and then add your own 3rd party HD and RAM.
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.03 10:11:00 - [16] Originally by: a51 duke1406 The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
Vogue Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.03 11:21:00 - [17] Haha
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.03 12:20:00 - [18] funny animation. despite being a fan of apple, i hated those commercials. john hodgeman (the pc guy, an author and comedian) is/was great, but they had a total loser playing the mac. are we supposed to identify with that guy somehow? we don't want anything to do with that image. good sentiment/gags in a lot of them though. Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.03 12:26:00 - [19] I use and have been using both for years, my Macbook Pro is for general PC gubbins email, browsing, etc and my Win 7 rig is for gaming, both have good and bad points, for Macs it's the cost and the after sales support, and though this doesn't apply to me, legacy support, for Mac it's poor ask anyone who works with them outside of a general office environment. Windows PC's well I don't really need to go on much here, security is the main concern but I've always said the first line of defence is the user, if you can't or wont use good AV software then you're asking for trouble, plus there's a whole host of anti spam and firewall programs out there. Like Zion said if you look after your PC and keep on top of Windows as well as actual component maintenance they will last a long time, like him I have stuff years old running. As for the Mac, OS X is a great OS nice and simple and secure, but that security is down as much to the lack of use world wide as it is down to the quality of OS X, it's easily hacked and has been easily hacked but until Apple gets a good sized market share or really breaks into the Asian market it's going to be ok, I don't use AV on my mac and I never have and I've never had a virus problem, as for my Windows rig, the last was a good 4 years ago. As a comparison my Win 7 rig cost me just short of ú1500 but that's with a i7 920 quad core, 6GB ddr3 ram, 160GB Intel SSD and dual 275 gfx cards, my Macbook pro was bought from a friend who just couldn't get away with it and went back to windows but had I bought it from new it would've cost around ú1400 for that you get a 2.4 GHz dual core cpu, 2GB ram 250GB hdd, 15" LED screen and nvidia 9600m 256MB gfx, the cost issues with Apple are not to hard to see. The current Macbook pros have a new gfx solution though, Nvidia 330M 256MB and the spec is better across the board. That said the LED screen is to be brutally honest, f**king awesome. Bottom line is this, if you have the money and aren't really interested in gaming and style is your thing then a iMac or Macbook is a excellent choice, but if you want to game you have to go windows unless you really do have more money than sense and you absolutely have to have a MacPro, but if that's the case no amount of argument will help you, only heavy use of pescription drugs.
Grez Core Contingency	Posted - 2010.06.03 13:19:00 - [20] Edited by: Grez on 03/06/2010 13:24:54 Originally by: Mother Clanger Dear trolls, The exact same spec HP desktop is ú3000 inc. VAT with the only advantage over the Mac being the basic Quadro graphics card and 3 years onsite parts and labour: Linkage You all fail. Please try harder next time. - MC Thats in dollars, ROFL. Epic fail. ú1500 Hahahahahaha. To quote someone in this thread: Originally by: Mother Clanger You all fail. Please try harder next time. ---
Doom Nightmare	Posted - 2010.06.03 13:35:00 - [21] As the person above me pointed out, the HP was is about half as cheap I work at a bank, so were banned from Macs (security), so any temptation to buy something shiny is gone
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.06.03 13:42:00 - [22] To understand the cost of a MacX system, you have to understand the demographic. I can crank up my PC that I built for 600 bucks, crank up a very strong cup of joe, after going out to get the beans with my pickup truck, maybe a few bucks or a little extra for quality beans. But go to a pretentious coffee shop where the same cup of coffee is like 1000 percent more in price, with Priuses and other pretentious yuppie cars parked outside, where people go to use the Wi Fi and read about celebrities on the internet as if that really changed anything, and you will see.... Macbooks.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2010.06.03 14:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Mother Clanger Dear trolls, The exact same spec HP desktop is ú3000 inc. VAT with the only advantage over the Mac being the basic Quadro graphics card and 3 years onsite parts and labour: Linkage You all fail. Please try harder next time. - MC hahaha Fail? dude look at your post!! It's in $$$ not pound omfg!! If you going to try and own someone on the forms how about doing it right than making your self look like a fool. So you sir is a fail! have a nice day hahaha Trinity Corporate Services
Tach Narrows Eden Security Intelligence	Posted - 2010.06.03 14:22:00 - [24] Edited by: Tach Narrows on 03/06/2010 14:26:35 Apple is overpriced. That's a fact. I own an iMac 27", a Mac mini, 5 iPhone 3Gs, 1 iPhone 3GS and an iPad (WiFi version only) (development purposes only)... From a technical to a financial viewpoint, they fail at life. The only thing they don't fail at is marketing (Steve Jobs, he could sell crap in counts of millions for $500) and design, where design is overpriced. And yeah, it's stolen. As a developer, the iPad/iPhone is a goldmine. But that doesn't change the fact that Apple fails at life.
Noun Verber Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.03 15:27:00 - [25] I tried looking but couldnt find it: does anyone have a link to the breakdown over the apple symbol that includes the apple tax?
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2010.06.03 19:27:00 - [26] Originally by: northwesten hahaha Fail? dude look at your post!! It's in $$$ not pound omfg!! If you going to try and own someone on the forms how about doing it right than making your self look like a fool. So you sir is a fail! have a nice day hahaha hahah Fail? Dude look at my post. Here's a little maths for you. US$ 3700 x 17.5% VAT = US$ 4350 US$ 4350 at 1.45 $/ú exchange rate = GBP ú3000 The fail in this thread grows more epic by the second. To paraphrase myself: Originally by: Mother Clanger You fail. Please try harder next time. I would also like to point out, and I say this as a day to day Mac user: 1. I have no disagreement that building you're own machine is cheaper/better value. Of course it is. I was pointing out that the people saying "It's the ú1000 extra for the Apple logo" are talking bo**cks. 2. I love Windows 7. It rocks. Hope your head just exploded. - MC
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2010.06.03 19:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Meiyang Lee The main cost-driver in the configuration you posted is the graphics card. Quadro's in general cost $1000 or more since they're "business solution" cards, even though they're essentially normal cards with a new bios (and generally of the highest possible quality, but no new architecture). The GT 120 in that mac can't cost more than $80 or so. Not exactly a fair comparison. The Quadro NVS 295 in the HP spec retails at ú90 (US$ 130), not $1000 So I think it's very comparable to a crappy GT 120. Now, if you'd have said to me that it was rediculous that if you want a Qudro on the Mac, as far as I can see you have little choice but to go for the ú1350 Quadro FX 4800 at a minimum, I would have said you have a point... - MC
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.06.03 20:28:00 - [28] I am no expert on computer parts but when it comes to the mac vs PC war even I can see that PCs are better. Simply because a PC can do everything a mac can do but a mac can do bugger all when compared to a PC.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2010.06.03 21:05:00 - [29] Originally by: Mother Clanger stuff you mad? PS Saying people not paying for a logo is talking BS. People do pay for logo/names not just apple. I mean their phones are over priced over hyped! saying saying otherwise need to get a clue really. PS now the HP over 4k now? any more crap want to send out there? oh nice main by the way Anyhow who buys PC from HP anyway Trinity Corporate Services
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2010.06.03 21:06:00 - [30] Originally by: baltec1 ...a PC can do everything a mac can do but a mac can do bugger all when compared to a PC. Please elaborate as I beg to differ. - MC
MooKids Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.06.03 21:12:00 - [31] Well, they do need the high end stuff to run Photoshop... -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.06.03 21:27:00 - [32] Originally by: Mother Clanger Originally by: baltec1 ...a PC can do everything a mac can do but a mac can do bugger all when compared to a PC. Please elaborate as I beg to differ. - MC Snow Leopard will not work on a Power Mac G5 while Windows 7 can be run on an old PC. While this is here though, can someone please tell me what exactly an IPAD can do? So far all I see is an expensive shiney thing that I can touch.
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2010.06.03 21:59:00 - [33] Originally by: northwesten you mad? No u! I'm in fighting mood Why the hell not, the worst that can happen is that no-one thinks any different to their pre-conceived ideas of Mac's being over-priced trash. I like Mac's, I like PC's, I don't like it when either gets bashed for no good reason. Why is no-one talking about the fact that Apple's standard warranty is so un-business friendly it's not funny? 2-3 weeks to get a computer fixed when I dropped it off? Terrible. Are they actually good products? For the right kind of user, absolutely. Originally by: northwesten PS Saying people not paying for a logo is talking BS. People do pay for logo/names not just apple. I mean their phones are over priced over hyped! saying saying otherwise need to get a clue really. Actually I can't disagree, there are numerous products in the Apple line-up that seem much more expensive than they should do and I take your point about brands in general, people do pay for a name. However, I stand by my assertion that the Mac Pro line is on a par price wise with pre-built systems from just about every other manufacturer. Originally by: northwesten PS now the HP over 4k now? any more crap want to send out there? If you click the link in my first post it has a total of $3700. If you read my first post it says the price inc. VAT is ú3000. Where did I change anything? You want me to explain each word to you? You seem to understand and type English very well so there must be something going wrong somewhere... Originally by: northwesten oh nice main by the way I'll take that as a compliment, thank you. Here, here's all my characters: Mother Clanger, Crayon Fusilade, Wuff Wuff, Merenghi, Mesuinu and hellhathnofury. You tell me which is my main as I really couldn't tell you Originally by: northwesten Anyhow who buys PC from HP anyway Corporates primarily. I believe their support is pretty good. - MC
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2010.06.03 22:20:00 - [34] Originally by: baltec1 Snow Leopard will not work on a Power Mac G5 while Windows 7 can be run on an old PC. Ooooooooh, crafty, and a very good point. Looking at it logically, you're a company changing over from PowerPC processors to Intel processors. Where is the cut off point? Software companies will still support 10.5 for quite a while. Intel Macs have been out for 4.5 years now. And I would take a bet with anyone that 10.10/.11/.12 will be completely backwards compatible should you so desire for every Intel Mac ever. That's not to say if I had dumped a big wedge of money on a high spec G5 tower that I wouldn't be somewhat pied. Originally by:** baltec1 While this is here though, can someone please tell me what exactly an IPAD can do? So far all I see is an expensive shiney thing that I can touch. Personally, I like many others wanted a tablet Macbook, not a stretched iPod Touch. However, I've got a feeling it will do the same for the tablet market that the iPod did for the MP3 player market. I tried one for the first time today; The Times app was sheer bliss and like nothing I've ever used before and the battery life is crazy long, even on video. I can only suggest trying one out if you haven't already and make up your mind after spending 15 minutes on the thing. - MC
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2010.06.03 22:24:00 - [35] Originally by: baltec1 Snow Leopard will not work on a Power Mac G5 while Windows 7 can be run on an old PC. But this is a GOOD thing. Let me explain. Windows will run on old PCs as it deliberately maintains backwards compatability. This makes the OS more bloated as it has to support legacy APIs that hardly anything else uses any more. Snow Leopard will not run on a Power Mac as these use an entirely different CPU architecture - Power PC. This is old hardware and removing support for it slimmed down the OS's installation footprint and enabled Apple to remove lots of legacy code that hardly anyone uses any more.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.06.03 22:45:00 - [36] Edited by: baltec1 on 03/06/2010 22:47:38 Originally by: Mother Clanger Ooooooooh, crafty, Im not just a pretty face Originally by: Mother Clanger Personally, I like many others wanted a tablet Macbook, not a stretched iPod Touch. However, I've got a feeling it will do the same for the tablet market that the iPod did for the MP3 player market. I tried one for the first time today; The Times app was sheer bliss and like nothing I've ever used before and the battery life is crazy long, even on video. I can only suggest trying one out if you haven't already and make up your mind after spending 15 minutes on the thing. - MC Well, I have always wanted a good touch screen tablet I can draw on. I have a tablet but it is a crappy cheap thing and trying to draw on a tablet while watching the screen is not an easy thing to do. I also fantisized over playing eve via a touch screen. Both clearly wont happen with an IPAD. I had a go in a local shop and to be honest there is not a lot it can do. It kinda seems like an Iphone only larger and without the ability to make phonecalls
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2010.06.03 23:51:00 - [37] Originally by: baltec1 Well, I have always wanted a good touch screen tablet I can draw on. I have a tablet but it is a crappy cheap thing and trying to draw on a tablet while watching the screen is not an easy thing to do. I also fantisized over playing eve via a touch screen. Both clearly wont happen with an IPAD. I had a go in a local shop and to be honest there is not a lot it can do. It kinda seems like an Iphone only larger and without the ability to make phonecalls My goodness, you and me both. If Apple can't do an artists sketchpad/notepad computer who the hell is going to do one? (I would laugh if it ends up being IBM ) I really thought this was going to be it. I would say perhaps invest in a better quality tablet? I've got a ten year old A5 Intuos 2 and it's as pleasurable to use today as when it was new. The whole watching the screen/not watching your hand took me a few months to work out properly but trying to Photoshop these days without just seems wrong. I think it might be your tablet holding you back here. Yes, iPad clearly won't be our saviour unfortunately. However, you can see who it's geared to; people who either don't carry or don't want to carry a laptop with them and for people who just want to chill out at home doing e-mails/web browsing/video watching/other app stuff without all the hassle that comes with a normal computer. It actually seems like a great product in that regard, I could teach my mum how to use it and she's never used a computer. Unfortunately we're not the target market and it's not surprising as we're in the minority . - MC
Taxesarebad	Posted - 2010.06.04 01:33:00 - [38] oh no not again /facepalm Windows wins Mac loses Why? mac is a $700 PC with a $3000 price tag, only difference is mac OS which is nothing special. -------------SIGZONE-------------- Remove Shadow.... ;)
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2010.06.04 01:39:00 - [39] Originally by: Taxesarebad oh no not again /facepalm Windows wins Mac loses Why? mac is a $700 PC with a $3000 price tag, only difference is mac OS which is nothing special. /(riker+picard)facepalm - MC
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.04 02:40:00 - [40] Originally by: Taxesarebad oh no not again /facepalm Windows wins Mac loses Why? mac is a $700 PC with a $3000 price tag, only difference is mac OS which is nothing special. how many times did your computer crash while you were typing that? Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Zions Child Caldari Carthage Industries	Posted - 2010.06.04 03:23:00 - [41] Originally by: Mother Clanger Originally by: baltec1 Well, I have always wanted a good touch screen tablet I can draw on. I have a tablet but it is a crappy cheap thing and trying to draw on a tablet while watching the screen is not an easy thing to do. I also fantisized over playing eve via a touch screen. Both clearly wont happen with an IPAD. I had a go in a local shop and to be honest there is not a lot it can do. It kinda seems like an Iphone only larger and without the ability to make phonecalls My goodness, you and me both. If Apple can't do an artists sketchpad/notepad computer who the hell is going to do one? (I would laugh if it ends up being IBM ) I really thought this was going to be it. I would say perhaps invest in a better quality tablet? I've got a ten year old A5 Intuos 2 and it's as pleasurable to use today as when it was new. The whole watching the screen/not watching your hand took me a few months to work out properly but trying to Photoshop these days without just seems wrong. I think it might be your tablet holding you back here. Yes, iPad clearly won't be our saviour unfortunately. However, you can see who it's geared to; people who either don't carry or don't want to carry a laptop with them and for people who just want to chill out at home doing e-mails/web browsing/video watching/other app stuff without all the hassle that comes with a normal computer. It actually seems like a great product in that regard, I could teach my mum how to use it and she's never used a computer. Unfortunately we're not the target market and it's not surprising as we're in the minority . - MC I didn't directly mention Mac's terrible, terrible customer support, but I alluded to it. But that horse is dead. The Ipad is a new horse, time to beat it. My school is giving the freshman ipads, (taking 100k from the SGA) in order to remain at "the forefront of technology." The dean doesn't seem to quite understand that its a useless piece of trash in a tech school. Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.04 03:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Zions Child Originally by: Mother Clanger Originally by: baltec1 Well, I have always wanted a good touch screen tablet I can draw on. I have a tablet but it is a crappy cheap thing and trying to draw on a tablet while watching the screen is not an easy thing to do. I also fantisized over playing eve via a touch screen. Both clearly wont happen with an IPAD. I had a go in a local shop and to be honest there is not a lot it can do. It kinda seems like an Iphone only larger and without the ability to make phonecalls My goodness, you and me both. If Apple can't do an artists sketchpad/notepad computer who the hell is going to do one? (I would laugh if it ends up being IBM ) I really thought this was going to be it. I would say perhaps invest in a better quality tablet? I've got a ten year old A5 Intuos 2 and it's as pleasurable to use today as when it was new. The whole watching the screen/not watching your hand took me a few months to work out properly but trying to Photoshop these days without just seems wrong. I think it might be your tablet holding you back here. Yes, iPad clearly won't be our saviour unfortunately. However, you can see who it's geared to; people who either don't carry or don't want to carry a laptop with them and for people who just want to chill out at home doing e-mails/web browsing/video watching/other app stuff without all the hassle that comes with a normal computer. It actually seems like a great product in that regard, I could teach my mum how to use it and she's never used a computer. Unfortunately we're not the target market and it's not surprising as we're in the minority . - MC I didn't directly mention Mac's terrible, terrible customer support, but I alluded to it. But that horse is dead. The Ipad is a new horse, time to beat it. My school is giving the freshman ipads, (taking 100k from the SGA) in order to remain at "the forefront of technology." The dean doesn't seem to quite understand that its a useless piece of trash in a tech school. Resident mac fan here, making additional points while agreeing for once with some of yours. Firstly, service hasn't been an issue except when it comes to upgrades with apple software and misc things where they refuse to swap it out for you if a new version comes out practically the next day after you buy something. They've done warranty service on things out of warranty from time to time and we're pretty awesome to me. But of course anecdotal mean nothing and experiences vary. It's just worth noting that they have people working for them that are actually willing to work with you if you do have issues, rather than a firm "thank you, come again" Now what I really wanted to talk about: iPad Why is this something people want? Why is there a market for it? I love apple, but we've had tablets for eons, what's good about this? -too wimpy to replace a laptop -too big to replace an iPod touch I don't f***ing understand. Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Zedic Amarr Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2010.06.04 15:48:00 - [43] Originally by: Intense Thinker http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp199/usmarine4160/m4nuz.gif Image changed to URL and I loled. Zymurgist O Rly? "Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up." - Akima
Zedic Amarr Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2010.06.04 15:58:00 - [44] p.s. I am laughing at you all now from the comfort of my 64gig 3G ipad. Wail and gnash your teeth for me, haters. My i-epeen swells at all the flowing tears. "Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up." - Akima
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.06.04 17:08:00 - [45] Originally by: Zedic p.s. I am laughing at you all now from the comfort of my 64gig 3G ipad. Wail and gnash your teeth for me, haters. My i-epeen swells at all the flowing tears. I just answered your post using the in game brouser while on a roam. Hurp de durp!
Zedic Amarr Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2010.06.04 17:31:00 - [46] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Zedic p.s. I am laughing at you all now from the comfort of my 64gig 3G ipad. Wail and gnash your teeth for me, haters. My i-epeen swells at all the flowing tears. I just answered your post using the in game brouser while on a roam. Hurp de durp! I just noticed that your name makes me think of balls for some reason, and I dislike your sig. I don't like the spaceship whale, it's somehow disturbing to look at. Not sure why. hiss "Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up." - Akima
Zions Child Caldari Carthage Industries	Posted - 2010.06.04 17:32:00 - [47] Originally by: Zedic Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Zedic p.s. I am laughing at you all now from the comfort of my 64gig 3G ipad. Wail and gnash your teeth for me, haters. My i-epeen swells at all the flowing tears. I just answered your post using the in game brouser while on a roam. Hurp de durp! I just noticed that your name makes me think of balls for some reason, and I dislike your sig. I don't like the spaceship whale, it's somehow disturbing to look at. Not sure why. hiss But its a better form of whale! Cybernetically enhanced to be more resistant to Japanese people! Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Zedic Amarr Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2010.06.04 17:37:00 - [48] Originally by: Zions Child Originally by: Zedic Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Zedic p.s. I am laughing at you all now from the comfort of my 64gig 3G ipad. Wail and gnash your teeth for me, haters. My i-epeen swells at all the flowing tears. I just answered your post using the in game brouser while on a roam. Hurp de durp! I just noticed that your name makes me think of balls for some reason, and I dislike your sig. I don't like the spaceship whale, it's somehow disturbing to look at. Not sure why. hiss But its a better form of whale! Cybernetically enhanced to be more resistant to Japanese people! More of the same propaganda like the faux whale, all designed with the purpose of brainwashing people into liking tentacle **** I suspect. I shall not be deceived! Zion! Fetch me my tinfoil knickers! "Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up." - Akima
Zions Child Caldari Carthage Industries	Posted - 2010.06.04 17:40:00 - [49] Originally by: Zedic More of the same propaganda like the faux whale, all designed with the purpose of brainwashing people into liking tentacle ** I suspect. I shall not be deceived! Zion! Fetch me my tinfoil knickers! Lame' is SOOOOO 80's, and should've died then. Also, tentacle is creepy. Lol, pr 0 n is censored... Originally by:** CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.06.04 17:47:00 - [50] Originally by: Zedic I just noticed that your name makes me think of balls for some reason, and I dislike your sig. I don't like the spaceship whale, it's somehow disturbing to look at. Not sure why. hiss Must be because you are related to krill.
Zedic Amarr Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2010.06.04 17:52:00 - [51] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Zedic I just noticed that your name makes me think of balls for some reason, and I dislike your sig. I don't like the spaceship whale, it's somehow disturbing to look at. Not sure why. hiss Must be because you are related to krill. Lies. You name has been submitted to the Inquisition. You didn't supect that, did you?? "Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up." - Akima
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2010.06.05 07:49:00 - [52] Originally by: Zions Child The dean doesn't seem to quite understand that its a useless piece of trash in a tech school. Be the first to get Linux installed on it - MC
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.05 12:20:00 - [53] Originally by: Zedic p.s. I am laughing at you all now from the comfort of my 64gig 3G ipad. Wail and gnash your teeth for me, haters. My i-epeen swells at all the flowing tears. I'm curious here, I wonder if you would indulge me as to what hardware you own and if you really need the iPad? My m8 had to have one so he bought a 32GB wifi from the states a couple of weeks ago before the UK/Euro release, he's a technophile so no amount of logic would talk him out of it but I have to say it's an awesome device, if, and I can't stress this enough you really don't want to do to much. My hardware list is 3 PC's, 2x Win 7, 1x Ubuntu, 15" Macbook pro, old G4 ibook running Debian, iPod touch and my wife's old Blackberry, now as much as I like the iPad I couldn't in all honesty justify it, even if all I had was the iPod touch and the Macbook, and I will bet my left nut that the vast majority of early adopters just don't need one, but they simply had to have one. This is testament to the strength of the Apple brand not to the functionality of the iPad it's not new nor is it revolutionary, for me an iPad running a touch screen version of OS X would've been cause for great celebration, not to mention a crotch full of pocket porridge. Alas all we have is a iPhone/iPod touch jumbo, that's the simple truth. It does have some great points tho, the photo software is superb, let down by the lack of an SD slot???? why I don't know, being out with friends who've been taking snaps with a digital camera and wanting to check out the pics on a bigger screen doesn't seem inplausible, the Marvel ap looks f**king awesome as well but not awesome enough to justify a purchase, the lack of USB is strange but understandable from a battery use point of view, the choice would've been nice tho, I'm sure they could've fitted one in somewhere, a lot of people make big issue about flash not so for me but it's there on the web and used a lot that said it's a fantastic way to view the web. As a reader I'm not sure here, I personally found it ok, most probably after the initial ohs and ahhs over the page turning I suspect it will start to strain the eyes, the Kindle is still the best electronic reader out there but it's price starts to look a bit high compared to the iPad and what it offers, there's also talk of wifi connectivity issues on the iPads, my m8 hasn't had a problem with it and neither did I while I had it. Another problem my m8 encountered was with the word processing and spreadsheet software, he had some format issues between it and his PC, I didn't try but apparently there's new word processing software on the way? The keyboard is another issue, I think it's more than enough for what you'll use the iPad for and I didn't find it bad, for emails and editing docs it's fine but any bigger document creation and prolonged typing might be uncomfortable. I didn't mention multitasking as firstly there's a new OS on the way, and to be brutally honest the people that have a genuine use for the iPad wont really need it, but at some point the user will as time goes on feel the need to do more as they become more adept. Bottom line is wait for the next gen iPad or see if an Android tablet comes out that is any good. I suspect tho Zedic in your case it's more a luxury item or a work item?, the 64GB 3G is the most expensive so it would seem you have disposable income, enjoy. I would like one but I'm painfully practical and I can't justify it because of what I already own and cost. As for Mac vs PC this will always be a hot potato, I love them both for different reasons, the Macbook pro is a joy to use and I've always like OS X but for performance a good windows PC will blow them away, but if you have the cash they're hard to beat.
M'ktakh	Posted - 2010.06.05 13:59:00 - [54] If you can blow all this money on almost useless prestige consumption of tech gadget you wont ever seriously need or use, you might as well give that money to me.
Winged Crime Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.05 14:45:00 - [55] Originally by: M'ktakh If you can blow all this money on almost useless prestige consumption of tech gadget you wont ever seriously need or use, you might as well give that money to me. On the contrary, I'd say this about 98% of phones people buy themselves these days. And "custom PC" parts. (I'm looking at you colorful glowy light computer nerds)
Drudging	Posted - 2010.06.05 19:57:00 - [56] Originally by: Doom Nightmare I work at a bank, so were banned from Macs (security) ^^ This, really. Debate all you want, all these kids, are going to be using a PC when they get a job.
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.05 22:01:00 - [57] Originally by: Drudging Originally by: Doom Nightmare I work at a bank, so were banned from Macs (security) ^^ This, really. Debate all you want, all these kids, are going to be using a PC when they get a job. Too bad there are entire industries that won't go near PCs and use Macs nearly exclusively. (and no, they're not apple training professions :)) Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Zedic Amarr Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2010.06.05 22:50:00 - [58] @ Dray, I guess it's more of a luxury item for me. I also have the 17" MBP and the 24" Apple LED display for when I'm at home (hook my MPB to it) The only thing I wish it had right now would be a forward facing camera. I'd like to be able to video chat with it. I got the 64 gig because I hate running out of storage, which is another thing that annoys me about my iphone 3G. I want all of my music and movies with me, even if I don't use most of it lol. So far it's been a joy to use. Plants vs Zombies is my current game addiction on it, I'm still getting used to reading books on it, but it's not too distracting (i've never used an ereader before). Videos, and TV shows are amazingly clear and crisp. And webpages look well, amazing. The responsiveness of this thing is snappy. But then I've been using a 3G so anything would seem snappy compared to that phone. I've actually never early adopted anything before, but I'm completely happy with my with this purchase. As mentioned in that google phone thread, I am bored to tears with the iphone OS interface. I'm hoping the new OS update coming out this fall will be interesting. "Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up." - Akima
Kleiner Vance	Posted - 2010.06.05 22:56:00 - [59] Just chiming in. Don't know if it has been mentioned but i own a PC because: 1. Macs are overpriced 2. Macs refuse to work with anything not specifically approved by apple. 3. I cant play Mass effect on a mac. (or 90% of other games for that matter.)
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.05 23:33:00 - [60] @ Zedic You have a 17" MBP, I don't like you anymore. Joking aside I'd love the 17" MBP but it's just too damn expensive, I'm not due an upgrade since I've only had this current 15" MBP for @ a year now, maybe at xmas or my bday in March who knows, as for the iPad my wife is dropping big hints for an 3G ver to swap out her iPhone sim with. Expensive times ahead.
Zedic Amarr Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2010.06.05 23:58:00 - [61] And that's the most annoying thing about Apple products. I can afford them, but I'd prefer it if they weren't so ***ing expensive. They are well built, Apple care has been awesome to me (I've only used it for my stupid phone). They've allowed me to do returns and exchanges outside the 2 week limit - several times. They're just too expensive. As they continue to gain market share, I hope that prices will drop to more manageable levels. It took long enough, but the Macbook price has came down (a little) and it needs to come down more. I got my 17" because that's the screen size I'm used to. I just can't comfortably use a 15" and hell no for a 13". PC laptop in 17" are made of plastic. They're faster in some cases, and more capable in others (for a pretty penny too) but they're heavy, plastic and fragile. I can't have that in my line of work. I have to invest in something that will hold up to traveling anywhere from 3 to 6 days a week. "Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up."* - Akima
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.06.06 01:26:00 - [62] Originally by: baltec1 Snow Leopard will not work on a Power Mac G5 while Windows 7 can be run on an old PC. Windows 7 will not run on my 486 DX4-100 or AMD K6-II. The installer flat out refuses to proceed, claiming that my hardware is not acceptable. Both machines run the latest version of Linux just fine though. [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Drudging	Posted - 2010.06.06 01:40:00 - [63] Originally by: Mara Rinn Windows 7 will not run on my 486 DX4-100 or AMD K6-II. The installer flat out refuses to proceed, claiming that my hardware is not acceptable. Both machines run the latest version of Linux just fine though. http://winhistory.de/more/386/xpmini_eng.htm 7mhz, 20 megs of ram. I dont think you tried hard enough tbh.
Zions Child Caldari Carthage Industries	Posted - 2010.06.06 02:40:00 - [64] Originally by: Drudging Originally by: Mara Rinn Windows 7 will not run on my 486 DX4-100 or AMD K6-II. The installer flat out refuses to proceed, claiming that my hardware is not acceptable. Both machines run the latest version of Linux just fine though. http://winhistory.de/more/386/xpmini_eng.htm 7mhz, 20 megs of ram. I dont think you tried hard enough tbh. I don't think you read hard enough. That usually helps, because Windows 7 is != to Windows XP. Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.06.06 03:05:00 - [65] Originally by: Zedic And that's the most annoying thing about Apple products. I can afford them, but I'd prefer it if they weren't so ****ing expensive. They are well built, Apple care has been awesome to me ... They're just too expensive. I prefer paying the "Apple Tax" which is about $500 according to Steve Ballmer rather than the "Windows Tax". The "Windows Tax" is the one I keep paying for my friends: machines that won't boot because the power supply didn't switch off properly the last time they used the computer, cheap RAM that has random bit errors and causes odd problems which take hours to diagnose, poor ventilation due to the motherboard and case not being designed for each other. Having to run virus software which strips about 20% of the performance of the computer (or more, if the virus scanner is intercepting disk I/O). I keep paying the "Windows Tax" which is the fiddling around that is required to keep white-box PCs running. The only good Windows computer I've used was my Medion laptop from ALDI. It came with Windows Vista (best Windows ever, until Windows 7 came out). Sadly the motherboard fried itself less than a year after I bought it, due to running EVE too much. So I'm still using my 17" iMac Core 2 Duo to play EVE Online. It's four years old now, making it the longest lived of my gaming computers. [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.06 03:08:00 - [66] All the fanboyism and product/OS evaluation that matters aside, why do people want to use something with a giant button that says "Start" ? (or big logo on the newest incarnations) is that just some identifying idea/concept they don't want to be rid of? The whole UI and menu choice system is so annoying to me, it feels like a broken toy. Are people just used to it and accept it or do they really, really like it? it seems to take twice as long to get to what you need than any competing OS with a GUI. Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Torque Daisy Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.06.06 03:22:00 - [67] heh seems apple is bankrolled by students getting into debt judging by that picture :P this thread really was not a troll, I simply wanted to know, seems apple is a bit like B&O, a design 'powerhouse' whose goods don't outperform cheaper alternatives (absolutely true in b&O case, my NAD/Mission HiFi will happily take on a 10x more expensive b&o in sound quality and win, it looks cack though) but offer lifestyle/home integration in living spaces, aesthetic co-ordination and 'out of the box' inter-operability between entire ranges. of course there are other factors and it's a crude comparison, but basically ball park. horses for courses, basically. can you overclock a mac btw :P
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.06 03:51:00 - [68] Originally by: Torque Daisy heh seems apple is bankrolled by students getting into debt judging by that picture :P this thread really was not a troll, I simply wanted to know, seems apple is a bit like B&O, a design 'powerhouse' whose goods don't outperform cheaper alternatives (absolutely true in b&O case, my NAD/Mission HiFi will happily take on a 10x more expensive b&o in sound quality and win, it looks cack though) but offer lifestyle/home integration in living spaces, aesthetic co-ordination and 'out of the box' inter-operability between entire ranges. of course there are other factors and it's a crude comparison, but basically ball park. horses for courses, basically. can you overclock a mac btw :P the difference being stability and product quality. it's one thing to look under the hood and say one car's better than the next because it's got X kind of engine. It's another to actually see how long it can run without a problem performing a certain kind of driving after taking it off the lot. I'm terrible at car analogies, I'm not a car person, but you get what i'm saying. I kind of HATE Apple as a company, but I'll certainly not go back to using other computers for my day to day or professional activities. I can measure in real world time how many hours of time were lost doing the exact same things on similar and well maintained machines, but the punchline being that I can trust Apple's machines with my livelyhood, whereas PCs have just let me down over and over again. Not to say i've never had a problem, and it's worth noting that if you live in a more remote area or smaller town and DO have some kind of problem, it's a lot more difficult to get your machine serviced via warranty without annoyances. You talked about lifestyle and stuff, the only comment I have on that is the mental image burned into my mind whenever I think about PCs, and it has nothing to do with Apple's marketing. It usually involves one of the following: -Memories of gross tan colored towers that contained crashy computers -Stupid looking space-wasting monstrosities with colored LEDs shining anywhere they can -a LOT of pain, misery and suffering cutting out of my free time, rest and game playing due to random Windows implosions and things So not liking those things - maybe I am a niche market, given how many people cling onto that stuff ;) People always talk about apple junk being for people who like "pretty stuff" and that it's purely cosmetic. I must say, it does go a long way in making me enjoy working when I don't HAAAAATE the way my workspace looks. But I can assure you that there are real, measurable benefits to using Macs for a lot of people. I still maintain that despite my wishes it was different, however, that PCs are better if your only intent is gaming and simply because gaming is more about getting lots and lots of power for cheap, and if it crashes or whatever... it's annoying, but you're not losing anything "important" Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Drudging	Posted - 2010.06.06 04:26:00 - [69] Originally by: Zions Child I don't think you read hard enough. That usually helps, because Windows 7 is != to Windows XP. I dont think you read hard enough Originally by: Mara Rinn The installer flat out refuses Probably something akin to dx10 on xp... i dont think someone has tried hard enough is all. 7mhz on xp is probably something like a k6-II on 7
M'ktakh	Posted - 2010.06.06 07:49:00 - [70] Where do all you anti-PC whiners live? I had to reinstall my system the other day due to my stupidity, and installing W7 and all programs I use took at best 2-3 hours. Had I ghosted it, it would have been 30 minutes.
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.06 08:17:00 - [71] Originally by: M'ktakh Where do all you anti-PC whiners live? I had to reinstall my system the other day due to my stupidity, and installing W7 and all programs I use took at best 2-3 hours. Had I ghosted it, it would have been 30 minutes. Sweet, I can press a button and restore my macs to the state they were in any day of the past two weeks within 10 minutes. Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
hired goon	Posted - 2010.06.06 13:40:00 - [72] I don't really have much annoyance at Macs for what they are, I mean I can understand the argument that people want something more reliable or whatever. And I respect that my preference may lie somewhere else. The thing that annoys me about Macs is what they represent. There's a girl I know who is hugely superficial and materialistic. She has just spent ú500 on a new handbag because it's normally ú1200, so apparently she couldn't pass up the opportunity for the deal. She is a mac user. And no matter how much I try to inform her of the technical limitations and they money she'd save, she just wants macs because they look pretty. When the ipad was announced, she couldn't stop talking about it. When I tried to explain the limitations and asked what function it would fulfil for her, she couldn't answer other than "I don't know, i just want one." Don't even get me started on those I'm a mac I'm a PC adverts. Apple is the only company to have insulted me personally. Then there's their draconian tech police, the ongoing Foxconn debacle, and all the while I - a computer enthusiast - have to put up with apple fanbois trying to justify to me and by extension themselves why they spent too much money on a computer for no other reason than it looks good and makes them enviable. tl;dr - Charlie Brooker says it best -omg-
Vogue Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.06 13:54:00 - [73] Edited by: Vogue on 06/06/2010 13:57:48 Edited by: Vogue on 06/06/2010 13:54:55 ^^^^ This is talking about a new trend in computer technology. That fashionable tech now drives new consumer buying patterns than the technology itself. Microsoft tried to push tablet laptops years ago but because of Microsofts own internal conflict: The Office division vetoed hand writing capability in office for tablets. Microsoft's tablet laptop concept did'nt fly was half baked and did'nt look stylish. I think it is naivety and also arrogance that old established tech company's expect consumers to accept new technology because it is just new technology. Sun Microsystems had this problem and had withered to nothing over time. Consumers want more now and Apple fills that niche. Tech geeks can bemoan consumers choosing pretty overpriced Apple products but buyers like products that look and feel good to use. When you buy a car its half logic and half sentiment. You buy a car that sort of fits with the person you are. This does also go into something else - consumer vanity. Computer technology company's should wise up to this more in the way Apple has. But Apple does sniff of 'conformity of being different.. or else' But I have to admit as an old fashioned geek I sterotype a lot of Apple product buyers with the sort of people that buy a convertible car but never put the roof down.
Gneeznow Minmatar Ship spinners inc	Posted - 2010.06.06 14:02:00 - [74] Mac's are one trick ponies, PC's can do everything I want and be upgraded over time, they are modular, reliable and cheap, Mac's on the other hand are expensive, singular in function and their purpose is more a statement of trendyness than functionality, so people who actually want to use a computer for gaming, work, storage and practicality will always chose the PC, people who want a shiny 'latest thing' to impress their friends and colleagues will use a mac. I think I'll stick with PC's
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.06 14:02:00 - [75] Originally by: Vogue Edited by: Vogue on 06/06/2010 13:57:48 Edited by: Vogue on 06/06/2010 13:54:55 ^^^^ This is talking about a new trend in computer technology. That fashionable tech now drives new consumer buying patterns than the technology itself. Microsoft tried to push tablet laptops years ago but because of Microsofts own internal conflict: The Office division vetoed hand writing capability in office for tablets. Microsoft's tablet laptop concept did'nt fly was half baked and did'nt look stylish. I think it is naivety and also arrogance that old established tech company's expect consumers to accept new technology because it is just new technology. Sun Microsystems had this problem and had withered to nothing over time. Consumers want more now and Apple fills that niche. Tech geeks can bemoan consumers choosing pretty overpriced Apple products but buyers like products that look and feel good to use. When you buy a car its half logic and half sentiment. You buy a car that sort of fits with the person you are. This does also go into something else - consumer vanity. Computer technology company's should wise up to this more in the way Apple has. But Apple does sniff of 'conformity of being different.. or else' But I have to admit as an old fashioned geek I sterotype a lot of Apple product buyers with the sort of people that buy a convertible car but never put the roof down. It'd be insecure with the roof down! Geez. Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.06 15:55:00 - [76] Calling a Mac a one trick pony is just like claiming Windows crashes all the time, the usual uneducated drivel Windows and Mac fan boys have been shouting at each other for years. Seriously I thought the general computing knowledge of the average Eve player was above this, oh wait this is Eve what the f**k was I thinking....
M'ktakh	Posted - 2010.06.06 15:57:00 - [77] Newzflash to Mac users: PCs have other operating systems besides the uptenth iteration of the NT.
Trader20	Posted - 2010.06.06 16:00:00 - [78] So ppl pay more money for an inferior product and have to wait longer for games to be released for wat reason?
TheLordofAllandNothing Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.06 16:14:00 - [79] I refuse to buy apple because of the almost slave labour they use in making their gadgets and computers in foreign countries. And as for this macro pro you could make yourself a much more powerful computer for less money, and just hackintosh it. _______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =(
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.06 16:16:00 - [80] Originally by: Gneeznow Mac's are one trick ponies, PC's can do everything I want and be upgraded over time, they are modular, reliable and cheap, Mac's on the other hand are expensive, singular in function and their purpose is more a statement of trendyness than functionality, so people who actually want to use a computer for gaming, work, storage and practicality will always chose the PC, people who want a shiny 'latest thing' to impress their friends and colleagues will use a mac. I think I'll stick with PC's Why do I always feel like PC loyal folks are always bitter & believe every mac user is just someone who likes to spend too much money on things that "look pretty" without knowing anything about what they're buying? A couple of things worth mentioning again, for the 5235325th time in this same thread (Yeah, people see "apple" or "mac" and skip reading all the posts just so they can say "I hate apple too!") -Just because they make "iMacs" and things it doesn't mean all they make is all-in-one, non-modular machines. Those are for very specific types of people (although I bought one before because at the time it was exactly what I needed at the right price). I can go get whatever I want in an Apple-based machine. -Singular in function: What? What's this mean? I'm just going to leave it alone and assume it's redundant mentions of the other things you asserted in the same post -"People who actually want to use a computer for ___(you named everything a computer is used for usually here__" - With the exception of a SMALL handful of people who have been loyal to apple from the beginning, most people who use Apple computers are people who made the jump for a reason. You know what that is? They got sick of not being able to "use a computer for ___(Your list of reasons)__". Because every time they did, something would go wrong. Unless they had the benefit of being some kind of weird hobbyist who had nothing better to do than spend all day and night doing research and combining different sets of hardware and software to strike the perfect balance to keep normal operation from "rocking the boat" so much that windows yells at them and quits whatever they're doing. Since switching to Mac, I've been able to track upwards of 15% increase in what most in a business setting would call "billable hours" due to things not crashing and crap while working. And these weren't "durr, i don't know how to maintain a pc!" blunders either. -"more a statement of trendyness than functionality": Have you asked anyone that purchased a Mac why they purchased one? Truthfully, I bet you could find dozens of people (especially them women! THEM WOMEN!) who said they thought they were "pretty". But as for the rest of the userbase... see some of my stuff above. Given how much flack y'all like to give the average Mac user, don't you think people who wanted to impress people would buy a PC? Or are you admitting that there's something innately impressive about a Mac? :) Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.06 16:19:00 - [81] Originally by: Trader20 So ppl pay more money for an inferior product and have to wait longer for games to be released for wat reason? Have you been reading what's been said in this thread? I use both and if you want to game buy a Windows solution, if you have the cash and don't care about gaming buy a Mac, they might not be as good for gaming but they certainly aren't inferior.
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.06 16:24:00 - [82] Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing I refuse to buy apple because of the almost slave labour they use in making their gadgets and computers in foreign countries. And as for this macro pro you could make yourself a much more powerful computer for less money, and just hackintosh it. Almost every item in your average PC/gadget will have manufactured in China by people working in poor conditions, not just Apple, in fact unless it's made in Taiwan or Japan I guarantee you it will probably have been manufactured in similar conditions somewhere in Asia. A hackintosh isn't an ideal solution, any more than running Win 7 on any Mac PC other than Mac Pro. Horses for courses my friend.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2010.06.06 16:25:00 - [83] Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing I refuse to buy apple because of the almost slave labour they use in making their gadgets and computers in foreign countries. yer ummmm like any other company's as well. I don't like apple but this alone is a silly statement to make. Most other company's will have parts made over seas. Trinity Corporate Services
Kephael Caldari SERENDIPITY INC R-I-P	Posted - 2010.06.06 18:22:00 - [84] Originally by: Zedic And that's the most annoying thing about Apple products. I can afford them, but I'd prefer it if they weren't so ****ing expensive. They are well built, Apple care has been awesome to me (I've only used it for my stupid phone). They've allowed me to do returns and exchanges outside the 2 week limit - several times. They're just too expensive. As they continue to gain market share, I hope that prices will drop to more manageable levels. It took long enough, but the Macbook price has came down (a little) and it needs to come down more. I got my 17" because that's the screen size I'm used to. I just can't comfortably use a 15" and hell no for a 13". PC laptop in 17" are made of plastic. They're faster in some cases, and more capable in others (for a pretty penny too) but they're heavy, plastic and fragile. I can't have that in my line of work. I have to invest in something that will hold up to traveling anywhere from 3 to 6 days a week. Hardware vendors generally have a three year warranty on most of the hardware, many retailers charge extra for anything more than a one year warranty. __________________________________________
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.06 18:22:00 - [85] Edited by: Ella C''Tronix on 06/06/2010 18:23:38 Edited by: Ella C''Tronix on 06/06/2010 18:22:16 More fuel for the flames: Google is more or less prohibiting general use of MS Winblows based PCs in their workplaces because they've deemed them too insecure http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d2f3f04e-6ccf-11df-91c8-00144feab49a.html Clearly it's because they just want people to spend money on useless machines that they only buy for looks, right? The article goes on into an editorial Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Vogue Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.06 18:28:00 - [86] What worries me is that the UK Royal Navy some years ago ditched UNIX in favour of Windows 2000 on its warships. The entire Royal Navy submarine fleet has Windows For Submarines. Quote: The Windows for Submarines programme is an example of one of the many areas where Microsoft works in partnership with the MOD to ensure that our products have the resilience, security and communications efficiency required to operate effectively in challenging military environments. Microsoft asserting they can do secure systems for the militery! I don't know whetever to laugh or cry.
Torque Daisy Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.06.06 18:48:00 - [87] i honestly don't know if that's a good or bad thing, honestly i know nothing when it comes down to it, literally nothing. my experience of windows7 is stable, much more so than the ubuntu and opensuse releases I've tried this year (both shot up errors i couldn't understand/resolve or displayed a quirky message about kernal panic and rebooted or something when windows7 installed and ran without issue), but for our navy...a windows OS...just doesn't seem right.
Trader20	Posted - 2010.06.06 18:54:00 - [88] Originally by: Dray Originally by: Trader20 So ppl pay more money for an inferior product and have to wait longer for games to be released for wat reason? Have you been reading what's been said in this thread? I use both and if you want to game buy a Windows solution, if you have the cash and don't care about gaming buy a Mac, they might not be as good for gaming but they certainly aren't inferior. Nah I haven't been reading the thread. Notice how most programs and games have delayed release dates for mac? A computer is only as good as the programs you can run on it and mac's compatibility is pathetic. You bought an inferior product and you paid extra money for it. It was a stupid purchase. Don't be mad just learn from your mistake and don't buy apple products anymore.
Drudging	Posted - 2010.06.06 20:42:00 - [89] Originally by: Ella C'Tronix Google is more or less prohibiting general use of MS Winblows based PCs in their workplaces.. .............an effort to run the company on GoogleÆs own products, including its forthcoming Chrome OS, which will compete with Windows.............. Security? Pwn2own, Chrome was untouched, Vista remained unscathed until flash was installed.. Everything mac? First day, in the first few minutes, everything burned. Generally, at the end of the day, its the user that compromises security anyways.
Zedic Amarr Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2010.06.06 20:48:00 - [90] Originally by: Drudging Originally by: Ella C'Tronix Google is more or less prohibiting general use of MS Winblows based PCs in their workplaces.. .............an effort to run the company on GoogleÆs own products, including its forthcoming Chrome OS, which will compete with Windows.............. Security? Pwn2own, Chrome was untouched, Vista remained unscathed until flash was installed.. Everything mac? First day, in the first few minutes, everything burned. Generally, at the end of the day, its the user that compromises security anyways. Every knows that the pwn2own competition is done by very competent hackers who spends months preparing their attacks. It's not as if they just sit down and press a few buttons and "burn" the machines and you know it. Save the intellectually dishonest **** for someone that would believe you. "Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up." - Akima
Drudging	Posted - 2010.06.06 21:00:00 - [91] Originally by: Zedic Every knows that the pwn2own competition is done by very competent hackers who spends months preparing their attacks. Thank you for reinforcing my point regarding the security that windows 7 and chrome provides.
Zions Child Caldari Carthage Industries	Posted - 2010.06.06 21:07:00 - [92] Originally by: Zedic Originally by: Drudging Originally by: Ella C'Tronix Google is more or less prohibiting general use of MS Winblows based PCs in their workplaces.. .............an effort to run the company on GoogleÆs own products, including its forthcoming Chrome OS, which will compete with Windows.............. Security? Pwn2own, Chrome was untouched, Vista remained unscathed until flash was installed.. Everything mac? First day, in the first few minutes, everything burned. Generally, at the end of the day, its the user that compromises security anyways. Every knows that the pwn2own competition is done by very competent hackers who spends months preparing their attacks. It's not as if they just sit down and press a few buttons and "burn" the machines and you know it. Save the intellectually dishonest ** for someone that would believe you. Although he certainly exaggerated the speed with which Safari was exploited, it does not change the fact that Safari (on Macs) was the first to fall, followed by IE8 with Windows 7, followed by Firefox 3.6 on 7 x64, followed by the iPhone's Safari (which requires digitally signed code) followed, ever so much later, by Chrome. Don't you just love Google? Can't wait for them to develop a real OS. They'll blow everyone out of the market in months. Then we'll all be living under the benevolent dictatorship of our good corporate friends at Google. Gogo Chrome Sandbox coding mode! Also, Opera was not included, because it's obscure. Security by obscurity Originally by:** CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Vogue Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.06 21:13:00 - [93] Problem with desktop OS's is that Microsoft, et al are always trying to put new features in Windows. So more new code to exploit. As an allegory: There were many ways to build bridges. But once all the different types of bridge designs were done they were refined so over time bridges were very reliable and could allow people and vehicles to use them safely. AFAIK IBM AIX is a very solid OS it has not had lots of new features shovelled into it with new releases.
Mother Clanger Viziam	Posted - 2010.06.06 22:02:00 - [94] Originally by: Zions Child Although he certainly exaggerated the speed with which Safari was exploited, it does not change the fact that Safari (on Macs) was the first to fall, followed by IE8 with Windows 7, followed by Firefox 3.6 on 7 x64, followed by the iPhone's Safari (which requires digitally signed code) followed, ever so much later, by Chrome. Don't you just love Google? Can't wait for them to develop a real OS. They'll blow everyone out of the market in months. Then we'll all be living under the benevolent dictatorship of our good corporate friends at Google. Gogo Chrome Sandbox coding mode! Also, Opera was not included, because it's obscure. Security by obscurity I am actually interested to know how much relevancy this kind of security test has in the real world. In my worryingly increasing time spent in computer support, I have never seen a Safari browser hijack instance, I lost count of the number of IE browser hijack instances years ago. Torjan horses, keyloggers, browser hijacks, these to me are relevant to actual people, these hacking conferences with dedicated, prepared attacks on a single system always seem very removed from that. I probably am missing something so please tell me. That said, even as an Apple fan I heard it put once in an interview with one of these Black Hat guys like this: Microsoft is geared up for the security issue, Patch Tuesday, generally fast responsive to new threats etc. whereas Apple has never had to be and are pretty lax about security updates when vulnerabilities are brought to them, which is proof in itself that they feel they don't need to dedicate the resources to this issue that say MS do (which to that level obviously wouldn't make much business sense in their current position anyway). This of course though does have the potential to be a dangerous situation if their browser/OS did gain enough market share to warrant significant attention from malware writers. Whether that will happen, I have doubts and a big part of me likes the fact that this problem doesn't really concern Mac's so much. But to be cautious, I installed ClamXav on my own machine a couple of months ago, the first time I have voluntarily installed an AV product on any Mac in 10 years. With increased risk comes increased exposure and (hopefully) increased vigilence at least. - MC
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.07 00:17:00 - [95] Security is only as good as it's user. But whether you're a compu-dummy who leaves everything as it is out of the box, or a computer security expert, an OS X machine is going to be less vulnerable than a win-based counterpart. It just comes down to the way the OS is built. About the browsers, I know Safari has a lot of loyal fans and stuff but as both a user and (in the past) a designer, I'd never use that stuff. It's one of the things I didn't like about Apple, as it was very microsoft-like: including a browser that makes up it's own standards as it goes along. At least they didn't ram it down our throats and have it integrated into every part of the OS like MS did. I'll always be a loyal firefox user. Apart from wavering performance sometimes, it has always been the best browsing experience. Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.07 00:44:00 - [96] Edited by: Dray on 07/06/2010 00:46:29 Originally by: Trader20 Originally by: Dray Originally by: Trader20 So ppl pay more money for an inferior product and have to wait longer for games to be released for wat reason? Have you been reading what's been said in this thread? I use both and if you want to game buy a Windows solution, if you have the cash and don't care about gaming buy a Mac, they might not be as good for gaming but they certainly aren't inferior. Nah I haven't been reading the thread. Notice how most programs and games have delayed release dates for mac? A computer is only as good as the programs you can run on it and mac's compatibility is pathetic. You bought an inferior product and you paid extra money for it. It was a stupid purchase. Don't be mad just learn from your mistake and don't buy apple products anymore. Obvious troll is obvious.
Grez M. Corp Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2010.06.07 01:56:00 - [97] Those laughing at Windows security... You haven't heard about the Mac being hacked in 10 seconds flat. No machine is secure. Not your precious Mac, not your precious favourite Linux distro, nor any Windows OS. ---
Zedic Amarr Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2010.06.07 02:05:00 - [98] Originally by: Grez Those laughing at Windows security... You haven't heard about the Mac being hacked in 10 seconds flat. No machine is secure. Not your precious Mac, not your precious favourite Linux distro, nor any Windows OS. You forgot, "hacked by visiting a specially designed webpage built by the hacker that took months to prepare." "Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up." - Akima
Drudging	Posted - 2010.06.07 08:03:00 - [99] Edited by: Drudging on 07/06/2010 08:04:31 Originally by: Zedic You forgot, "hacked by visiting a specially designed webpage built by the hacker that took months to prepare." confirming, thats how machines tend get compromised on the real interwebs. Your argument is invalid. edit - quoting for truth Originally by: A wise person No machine is secure. Not your precious Mac, not your precious favourite Linux distro, nor any Windows OS.
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.07 10:44:00 - [100] Originally by: Dray As for the Mac, OS X is a great OS nice and simple and secure, but that security is down as much to the lack of use world wide as it is down to the quality of OS X, it's easily hacked and has been easily hacked but until Apple gets a good sized market share or really breaks into the Asian market it's going to be ok, I don't use AV on my mac and I never have and I've never had a virus problem, as for my Windows rig, the last was a good 4 years ago. As a Mac user I've never bought into the myth of invulnerability, my natural caution as a Windows user wouldn't let me, no OS is secure that's not open to debate but the fact that OS X has such a small market share does in fact give it some security which is why I never use AV on mine. My original statement still stands, for gaming Windows, for general use spend extra and get a Mac, either way the user is the most important element when it comes to security not the OS or the PC. That said even though I don't use AV on my MBP I have a copy of BitDefender just in case, old habits die hard.

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