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[BOND] 3 billion at 12% for 2 months û Station Trading, #1

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Cheque Please Minmatar Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.08 08:46:00 - [1] [INTRODUCTION] Stop the clocks, lock the forums, take a deep breath. I bring you news: the apocalypse is neigh. For itÆs time, ladies and gentlemen, to make MD history at this, the ending of the world. Throw down a stake, reserve the best seats. HereÆs the impossible: a first time poster issuing a bond that WONÆT evaporate in the sunlight! Shocking, I know. Not a scam, you say? Yes, itÆs true. Calm yourself. Breathe manually. à Good to go? Okay then. To spare everyone the pain of reading a wall of text, IÆll keep this simple and to the point. LetÆs begin. [GENERAL SUMMARY] Bond: Station Trading, #1 -Issued by: Cheque Please -Total Funds: 3 billion ISK -Begins: TBA pending Full Reservation -Ends: Exactly 61 DAYS after launch Num. of Shares: 60 Individual Share Price: 50 million ISK Interest: 12% ( 6 million per share, monthly) -Dividends paid TWICE every 30 DAYS (360 million ISK monthly, 720 million total) -All assets liquidated and full investment returned after 61 DAYS Strategy: Station Trading Investment Risk: Low Collateral: Sort of - I have 2 PLEXÆs incoming from CCP that I won in a contest. That almost covers the interest if I completely bomb. Knowing CCP though, I expect to get them sometime next year. Withdrawal of Funds: Available -If at any time you need your initial investment refunded, I will try my best to accommodate you without sabotaging the bond. Interest payment for that month will be forfeited. Given that this is only going to run 2 months, I hope this isnÆt an issue. [BUSINESS PLAN / REASONING FOR BOND] Most of you in MD are grizzled veterans yourself, but for the uninitiated out there, hereÆs a brief summary of how successful bonds work: Step 1: I form this bond for you. Step 2: You transfer me ISK. Step 3: ??? Step 4: We laze back together in our leather chairs, puff gilded cigars, and talk of country clubs, croquet, and the good olÆ days under Ronald Reagan. On a serious note, thereÆs really not much to say that wonÆt bore you. I will be exclusively station trading. I enjoy making money. And I enjoy making money with as little effort as possible. Enter the station trader. IÆve been playing EVE for about two months total, and IÆve steadily increased my wealth over those two months. To some of you, I understand that this makes me the æFNGÆ. However, IÆm looking for paths to faster expansion and, unfortunately, one needs money to make money. So thatÆs why IÆm here. Toss me your loose change. I have enough self-interest to succeed, tempered by enough ambition to not slink away from the table early with a lean 3 billion. I want to be a Jita 4-4 fat cat eventually, and to do that IÆm trying my best to work upward, starting humbly with this initial bond. So help me, help you, help meà Or something like that. =) As for the specific trade strategyà well, I intend on buying high and selling low-- err, wait a second I get that mantra confused sometimes. Buy low and sell high, thatÆs it. Maybe itÆs more complicated than I thought! *****
Cheque Please Minmatar Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.08 08:52:00 - [2] Edited by: Cheque Please on 08/06/2010 08:53:13 [RISK ASSESMENT: Low] Scam: Unlikely This could be a scam, sure. It could all be an elaborate plot to steal 3 billion and spend it on hookers and ice cream. Maybe IÆm ITS Assassin reincarnated as an alt to mooch more money from MD and then whine about it all the way to the bank. But IÆd appreciate it if you didnÆt cast me in with his lot. The best scammers hide their intentions behind fast-talk and walls of text. IÆm not trying to hypnotize you into a suggestible state with pretty colors like highlighted green text! and angry-face red text. Nor am I lulling you to sleep with long, long white lines of unformatted text droning on and on about pseudo-business terms like æmarginsÆ and ærisk mitigationÆ. LetÆs speak plainly. I offer a solid 24% return on your investment upon the termination of this bond. I feel I can safely exceed the 720 million profit line in 2 months with a temporary boost in my available capital. My interest rate is high because I aim high. ItÆs that simple. Loss of Assets: Impossible This will all be conducted at a major market hub. I expect to never leave the station with anything of worth to this bond. No hauling into a suicide gank; no high-sec POS to get war decÆd. Burnout: Unlikely If for some strange reason, I get fed up with this game in the near future (absolutely no correlation with you probing MD elites with all your questions, IÆm sure ;) ), all assets will be liquidated, initial investments will be returned fair and square, and the bond will be closed. ThatÆs a promiseà Hit by a Bus: Medium à but hereÆs the exception to that promise. I go to Uni, and I live on campus. LetÆs just say that there are a lot of rushed buses zooming around some very cramped streets. It could happen, I suppose. IÆll look both ways before crossing the street, I swear! Oddly enough though, of the three times IÆve almost been hit walking, the culpritÆs always been a Jimmy JohnÆs delivery car. Coincidence? You decide. Freaky fast, indeed. [WRAP UP] Of course, this is all just me assessing my own bond. And yes, I might be a tad biased. So please donÆt take my word for it. I will try to secure an audit to confirm that IÆm not a complete idiot, but such things cannot ever be fool proof. Do not substitute another manÆs judgment when you have your own to spare. Use your head, have a think about it, and never risk what you canÆt afford to lose. If you take my up on my offer though, IÆll see you on the other side exactly 24% richer. Now, I know some of you have a lock on me already, and have hands twitching for F1-F8. All I have to say is this: give me the benefit of the doubt please. Ask your questions, by all means, but keep in mind that I am, in fact, on your side. DonÆt slaughter me before I get the chance to prove myself. Closing Haiku: Where paragraphs of words fail, sometimes a few will work. So hereÆs a haiku: Summer worm appears Golden in the morning sun Who will be the bird? cough Invest now. Cheers, Cheque
Cheque Please Minmatar Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.08 08:59:00 - [3] Edited by: Cheque Please on 08/06/2010 08:58:59 Reservations: Reserved... (haha, get it?)
Rethguad Lamina	Posted - 2010.06.08 09:04:00 - [4] Reserving 5 share/250m pending audit.
Xearal Minmatar SOL Industries Kamikaze Project	Posted - 2010.06.08 09:27:00 - [5] Reserving 4 shares at 200M, pending audit <a href="https://eve-search.com/externalLink.asp?l=http%3A%2F%2Frumandmonkey%2Ecom%2Fwidgets%2Ftoys%2Ftestgen%2F6199%2F"><img src="http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/9/9/6199/25764.jpg" title="Industrialist with teeth" alt="Industrialist with teeth" border="0"
Matt Ross Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.06.08 09:40:00 - [6] Reserving 5 share at 250m pending audit. Tis better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven.
Unity Love Caldari Dissonance Corp	Posted - 2010.06.08 10:16:00 - [7] Edited by: Unity Love on 08/06/2010 10:20:14 sorry retracted, not through any fault of yours. GL, Unity
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.06.08 10:28:00 - [8] You don't post much on this char knowledge is power
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.06.08 10:29:00 - [9] Scam Factor: 6/10 Rating: Likely to succeed. - 2 month old "FNG" who fills out the standard IPO proposal like a pro. Even used color coding all the while being self deprecating. - Riethe like humor - Denigrates the value of 3 billion (that's 10 months free eve time exchange rare for 2 plexes.) - Audit is only going to show, at best, 1.5 months of trading. Though this has not stopped lemmings from reserving pending the audit. - Closes the offering with DragonRiderTao drivel. Summary: Unlikely to scam at this point, this is just the first step to the bigger scam down the road. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.08 10:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Shar Tegral Scam Factor: 6/10 Rating: Likely to succeed. - 2 month old "FNG" who fills out the standard IPO proposal like a pro. Even used color coding all the while being self deprecating. - Riethe like humor - Denigrates the value of 3 billion (that's 10 months free eve time exchange rare for 2 plexes.) - Audit is only going to show, at best, 1.5 months of trading. Though this has not stopped lemmings from reserving pending the audit. - Closes the offering with DragonRiderTao drivel. Summary: Unlikely to scam at this point, this is just the first step to the bigger scam down the road. In your haste to call me a scammer, Shar Tegral, you forgot one thing: I might not be a scammer. I don't mind the accusation; in fact, I expected it. Even from the perspective of a player who's only been reading this board for roughly a month (me), I can see why a healthy distrust is necessary. I can't fault you for being smart. Here's a few quick remarks regarding your concerns really quick before I head off to sleep. Quote: 2 month old "FNG" who fills out the standard IPO proposal like a pro. Even used color coding all the while being self deprecating. I didn't realize being coherent was a character flaw. Same with the sense of humor. But thank you. =) Quote: Denigrates the value of 3 billion Yeah, I pretty much wipe my arse with 3 billion. I'm an evil business mastermind like the Penguin... except no, I'd prefer using my powers for the forces of good. And no one wants to be Danny DeVito. And I don't have 3 billion yet, which compared to some of you giants on this board, is what I would consider a paltry sum. In comparison. Quote: Audit is only going to show, at best, 1.5 months of trading. Though this has not stopped lemmings from reserving pending the audit. Well, I certainly hope so considering I've only been trading, at best, 1.5 months total. Quote: Closes the offering with DragonRiderTao drivel. Lol, fair enough. And if what you say is true, Shar, about this being a stepping stone to a masterplan scam, then invest away people. Your money is guaranteed safe with this bond, right? Win-win. (Disclaimer: To anyone that may be quoting this from the future: please take a good whiff. That's the thick scent of sarcasm).

Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.08 11:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Grozen You don't post much on this char I don't post much with any char.
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.06.08 11:34:00 - [12] 1) Reserving 1bil, pending audit and answers to questions I'll post questions to this post in a bit, have RL to deal with tho so will be back More in a bit. Market Alerts Mailing List
Marbo Slyder	Posted - 2010.06.08 11:48:00 - [13] Reserving 10 shares for a total of 500 mil ...subject to all the provisos previously listed :)
Roguehalo Caldari Resonance Laboratories	Posted - 2010.06.08 12:00:00 - [14] Scam is obvious.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.06.08 12:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Cheque Please In your haste to call me a scammer, Shar Tegral, you forgot one thing: I might not be a scammer. There was no haste sir. I looked over the data and I remembered "You might not be a scammer". And, in Eve, that means you are most likely a scammer. Sarcasm is the first response of those without anything else to offer. I.e. Scammers. You damn yourself not with my review of you but with your response to that review. But, I'm not here to troll you or derail you so that'll be the extent of my statements and advice (to others). Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster	Posted - 2010.06.08 14:05:00 - [16] I would like to reserve 1000 (ONE THOUSAND) ISK worth of shares, please use cribba as fourth party!
Ophias	Posted - 2010.06.08 14:40:00 - [17] Reserving 10 shares for a total of 500 million Subject to all the provisos previously listed, as others have said.
Lord Arbalest Northstar Cabal	Posted - 2010.06.08 15:13:00 - [18] Are you willing to disclose your mains and alts? How much have you been trading with so far? What sort of profits have you been bringing in? (And all of Taram's questions) Evading questions and accusations by way of 'but then again...i might not be', just gives your accusers more weight in their argument.
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.06.08 15:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Cheque Please the apocalypse is neigh. WHERES THAT HORSE!!?
Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.06.08 16:41:00 - [20] You have my sympathy. I liked the setup and the write up. Obviously I'm not going to participate because: A) Something reeks of scam. B) I can do the exact same thing myself and make billions risk free over the same period. I still hope you will succeed, I get a positive vibe from this thread, scam or no scam.

RAW23	Posted - 2010.06.08 17:10:00 - [21] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Originally by: Cheque Please the apocalypse is neigh. WHERES THAT HORSE!!? Carrying one of the four horsemen obviously.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.08 20:09:00 - [22] Edited by: Cheque Please on 08/06/2010 20:14:13 Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 08/06/2010 12:20:34 Edit: Questions posted Reserving 1bil, pending audit and answers to questions This is obviously an alt (Born 5/29). Disclose your main. Disclose your alts, all of them How many accounts do you have? How do you pay for them? What is your current net worth? (That's all assets + All outstanding buy orders + all outstanding sell orders + cash on hand - current debt) How did you get the isk to start trading? Is trading all that you do or do you augment income in some other way (missions?) If you run missions what level mission agents are you currently using? What is your current standing with the corp that owns the station you are trading in? What out of game tools are you using to assist you with trading? I may have more questions later. For now these will do. Hi Taram, I'll try to answer your questions. Quote: This is obviously an alt (Born 5/29). Disclose your main. Though I would have preferred revealing this sort of information solely to an auditor, I guess it really can't hurt. My main is Azenn. Though the character was born late 2007, I have not been playing 3 years. I played for roughly a month then, maybe a month and a half. I don't remember. I recently started playing again a little over a month ago. I'm using this alt to conduct the bond as I rlike the name, and I wish I had spent more time on my original character's portrait. You can confirm here at Massively that I did indeed win 2 PLEX recently, pending CCP to mail them to me. Quote: Disclose your alts, all of them None of any real consequence. I have one "Duke Hellstrom" on my main account + Cheque Please and Korazen on my 2nd account. Azenn is my main character and the only one I played with until recently. Quote: How many accounts do you have? How do you pay for them? I paid my main account with the typical $14 a few days ago. I planned to buy a PLEX for the second account in order to give myself the free 30 days buddy time (mailed myself a trial) but stupid me messed up. I activated it with a PLEX regardless, but a few hours late. So I have 2 months of game time on the main account now + 1 month on the second account. I wanted the second account to play EVE and do exploration (love the new system) while I adjust buy/sell orders in the background. I opened it now because I figured I was getting the 2 PLEX from the contest soon, and that would reimburse what I spent. I'm opening this bond partly to cover the 300m hit to my wallet. Quote: What is your current net worth Somewhere around 700m, I'd say. Maybe a bit more. I have 440m in sell orders + 150m in escrow atm + 100m in my wallet. Assuming the sell orders won't sell at the current price and will go down a bit, I still have quite a few items sitting in inventory that I need to move -- so maybe another 100m to 150m there. It's a bit trickier, too, because I have some assets that are scattered all over some terrible regions like Lonetrek when I used to be silly and do big region-wide buy orders and haul it. This is mostly salvage now that I can't be arsed to pick up. Maybe another 20m-30m in this. Quote: How did you get the isk to start trading? Is trading all that you do or do you augment income in some other way (missions)? I've done missions occasionally b/c I need to raise standing, but only up to level 2 so far. I've got battlecruisers trained on my main, Azenn, but haven't bothered to buy one yet. I find M's rather boring. I enjoy exploration and sold a wormhole a few days ago on Duke Hellstrom. You can probably forum search the post. ... I'm at the character limit now to this post; I can answer the last three Q's in three quick words: no, bad, none.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.08 20:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Cheque Please In your haste to call me a scammer, Shar Tegral, you forgot one thing: I might not be a scammer. There was no haste sir. I looked over the data and I remembered "You might not be a scammer". And, in Eve, that means you are most likely a scammer. Sarcasm is the first response of those without anything else to offer. I.e. Scammers. You damn yourself not with my review of you but with your response to that review. But, I'm not here to troll you or derail you so that'll be the extent of my statements and advice (to others). And here I really thought the haiku would have convinced you. =( Oh well, no hard feelings. You're still invited to my birthday party. Maybe I'll see you in 2 months and prove otherwise if I get this thing off the ground.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:41:00 - [24] The bond is now tentatively filled up (that was rather fast). If you would like to get on the waiting list, please leave a message here and I'll add you. I am seeking an auditor to get this rolling ASAP if anyone reading this is available/knows one who is not busy. Also, Ophias, you wanted 10 shares but there were only 6 available. I put you down for 6, and 4 more if anyone withdraws. Let me know if that is okay.
Ophias	Posted - 2010.06.09 11:13:00 - [25] Edited by: Ophias on 09/06/2010 11:14:01 That's a shame but fine. Let me know when you need the ISK. Oh and by the way I loved the haiku, just ignore Shar Tegral. For some reason he/she sees it as their purpose in life to run around these forums being grumpy.
Synbiossa Gallente Dirt-Nap Ship Yards Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.06.09 13:53:00 - [26] Sorry for not posting sooner, but I believe I am person X as per out mail about reserving 10 shares for me.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.09 19:37:00 - [27] Originally by: omgfreemoniez WHERES THAT HORSE!!? Sorry, I must have missed this post yesterday. I am so very glad at least one person gets my stupid jokes. Originally by: Ophias Oh and by the way I loved the haiku ... and I'm also glad one person likes my stupid haiku. Originally by: Synbiossa Sorry for not posting sooner, but I believe I am person X as per out mail about reserving 10 shares for me. Yes, you are. Sorry about that. From your EVE mail I wasn't sure if you wanted your name posted here or not. Added your name to the reservation list. Originally by: Ophias Let me know when you need the ISK. Will do. Currently I'm still seeking an audit to confirm what I have posted earlier about my alternate characters and NAV. Considering I have disclosed the name of my main, I don't think the audit's all that necessary, but if it helps put anyone's mind at ease, then I'll have it done for that sake alone. I don't want this to turn into a "SCAM!" screaming witch hunt because, beneath it all, there's no witch. We all know how Salem turned out. If it means me getting a third party to see if I float like a duck, so be it. It's kind of sad how frustrating this can be as a first time offerer. A bit of a Catch-22, if you ask me. I need your funds to earn your trust, and to earn your funds I need your trust. Something's gotta give! Hopefully the audit won't take too long. Cheers, Cheque
Synbiossa Gallente Dirt-Nap Ship Yards Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.06.09 19:51:00 - [28] Originally by: Cheque Please Yes, you are. Sorry about that. From your EVE mail I wasn't sure if you wanted your name posted here or not. Added your name to the reservation list. Didn't really want to post with my main, but I could see how it looks fishy having someone up there as just X. Good luck. Awaiting the audit.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.09 20:02:00 - [29] Originally by: Synbiossa Originally by: Cheque Please Yes, you are. Sorry about that. From your EVE mail I wasn't sure if you wanted your name posted here or not. Added your name to the reservation list. Didn't really want to post with my main, but I could see how it looks fishy having someone up there as just X. Good luck. Awaiting the audit. Maybe a little bit. But hey, we could always resort to spy names. I'll switch your reservation to a humble man called "John Doe" and no one will be the wiser, I'm positive of it. It's a practically impenetrable disguise.
Xearal Minmatar SOL Industries Kamikaze Project	Posted - 2010.06.10 09:44:00 - [30] I reserve to use the name Jane Doe!!! <a href="https://eve-search.com/externalLink.asp?l=http%3A%2F%2Frumandmonkey%2Ecom%2Fwidgets%2Ftoys%2Ftestgen%2F6199%2F"><img src="http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/9/9/6199/25764.jpg" title="Industrialist with teeth" alt="Industrialist with teeth" border="0"

Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.06.10 23:14:00 - [31] Originally by: Cheque Please Considering I have disclosed the name of my main, I don't think the audit's all that necessary, but if it helps put anyone's mind at ease, then I'll have it done for that sake alone. No audit, no iskies ;) That's just the way it is m8. Disclosing the name doesn't do much. A full audit lets us find out if you actually have been trading like you've said. It lets us see if there are fishy isk transfers in your wallet. It lets us see if all your income is from missions. It gives us qualitative and quantitative facts to judge based on, not just 'your word'. Quote: It's kind of sad how frustrating this can be as a first time offerer. A bit of a Catch-22, if you ask me. I need your funds to earn your trust, and to earn your funds I need your trust. Something's gotta give! Well.... 1) you're asking for quite a bit for a first time offering (though your interest rate is nice) 2) you're not offering collateral Thus 3) You must get an audit. Were you offering 100% collateral and offering, say, 4% or 5% interest, people would jump all over it, even without an audit. But with no collateral people will always want an audit unless you have a long track record with equally large offerings. Quote: Hopefully the audit won't take too long. Have you contacted any of the known auditors? If you don't contact them it could take quite a while ;) Market Alerts Mailing List
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.12 22:39:00 - [32] Hello everyone, I've thought it over, and for a variety of reasons, will be proceeding without an audit. It's going to be a bit of a trip down memory lane. Just like the 'ye olde' days of medieval MD, or so I hear. I wish I had been playing back then. Times are-a-changing in EVE, and the various scammers have come along way when it comes to screwing the rest of us over. Given the checkered history of first time offers, some of you long timers are suspicious of me, and rightfully so. To those who you who put down a reservation, if you'd like to withdraw it, I understand. You put a "pending audit" clause and I'm circumventing that. It's no problem if you'd like to cancel. Please let me know ASAP, and I will take you off the list. If, however, you'd like to stick around and give me a chance, thank you very much. EVE is all about risk versus reward. Most of us play the game because we love the freedom and unpredictably, else we'd all be raiding murlocs or something in WoW. You have my word that I won't run off with your money, but I realize my word means nothing until proven otherwise. So I appreciate you taking the chance. Anyway, that's all I have. No DragonRiderTao haiku this time. Getting the bond off the ground is enough of a pain in the arse as it is. Those of you on the reservation list who are still with me, you can send me your reservation now if you'd like. I will not be touching it until the bond officially launches. That will be on Monday, June 14, if the 3 billion mark has been met. All terms and conditions still apply. 12% interest for 2 months. And please, please note the spelling of Cheque. Don't send it to the wrong guy. Thank you, Seacreast out --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Saidin Thor	Posted - 2010.06.12 23:08:00 - [33] Would you care to elaborate on any of the reasons you aren't getting an audit?
Capita List	Posted - 2010.06.13 00:05:00 - [34] Edited by: Capita List on 13/06/2010 00:05:46 Originally by: Saidin Thor Would you care to elaborate on any of the reasons you aren't getting an audit? I would think that's obvious. ::::::::::: ::SCAM:: :::::::::::
Xearal Minmatar SOL Industries Kamikaze Project	Posted - 2010.06.13 03:37:00 - [35] Well, I'm afraid that I will then cancel my reservation. As they say over and over, 'don't fly what you can't afford to lose.' Judging the risk vs reward, I am afraid that without that audit and a proper trustworthy person backing you, the risk to my money is too much for me. So I will not be investing in your bond. I do wish you the best, and hopefully, you will be able to do this and prove me wrong, as well as finding a proper auditor for your future endeavors. <a href="https://eve-search.com/externalLink.asp?l=http%3A%2F%2Frumandmonkey%2Ecom%2Fwidgets%2Ftoys%2Ftestgen%2F6199%2F"><img src="http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/9/9/6199/25764.jpg" title="Industrialist with teeth" alt="Industrialist with teeth" border="0"
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.06.13 06:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Cheque Please Edited by: Cheque Please on 12/06/2010 23:04:30 Edited by: Cheque Please on 12/06/2010 22:47:50 Hello everyone, I've thought it over, and for a variety of reasons, will be proceeding without an audit. It's going to be a bit of a trip down memory lane. Just like the 'ye olde' days of medieval MD, or so I hear. I wish I had been playing back then. Times are-a-changing in EVE, and the various scammers have come a long way when it comes to screwing the rest of us over. Given the checkered history of first time offers, some of you long timers are suspicious of me, and rightfully so. To those who you who put down a reservation, if you'd like to withdraw it, I understand. You put a "pending audit" clause and I'm circumventing that. It's no problem if you'd like to cancel. Please let me know ASAP, and I will take you off the list. If, however, you'd like to stick around and give me a chance, thank you very much. EVE is all about risk versus reward. Most of us play the game because we love the freedom and unpredictably, else we'd all be raiding murlocs or something in WoW. You have my word that I won't run off with your money, but I realize my word means nothing until proven otherwise. So I appreciate you taking the chance. Anyway, that's all I have. No DragonRiderTao haiku this time. Getting the bond off the ground is enough of a pain in the arse as it is. Those of you on the reservation list who are still with me, you can send me your reservation now if you'd like. I will not be touching it until the bond officially launches. That will be on Monday, June 14, if the 3 billion mark has been met. All terms and conditions still apply. 12% interest for 2 months. And please, please note the spelling of Cheque. Don't send it to the wrong guy. Thank you, Seacrest out Consider my reservation withdrawn. Dunno what planet you are on but for at least the past 18 months or so bonds have been required of any 1st time offering. Sorry, getting an audit is neither difficult nor painful. The fact that you refuse to get one speaks volumes about your character. "I want you to trust me with billions of in game isk but I won't trust you with my api info which, in the grand scheme of things, can't hurt me in any way." Market Alerts Mailing List
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.06.13 06:44:00 - [37] I still don't understand why 95% of people who are capable and experienced enough to trust to run the business plan wouldn't be good enough at making isk not to need investors. (if you could trust them to be honest is yet another critical matter) I've only seen a few where the backstory made some sense. BPO's can really be quite expensive, and for things like captial ships.. I can see someone with 50 or 100 billion of their own isk having the knowledge to run another operation profitably while borrowing while he has his own isk committed to some large high return projects like funding a titan or two etc.. The whole notion that someone needs isk for trading is beyond me... its a catch 22.. if they're good at trading the don't need isk and if they're not good at trading why would you give them isk to trade with at high interest?
Marbo Slyder	Posted - 2010.06.13 07:10:00 - [38] This dragon is out shame...thought you had potential...
Roguehalo Caldari Resonance Laboratories	Posted - 2010.06.13 08:17:00 - [39] Originally by: Roguehalo Scam is obvious. qft
RAW23	Posted - 2010.06.13 10:46:00 - [40] Edited by: RAW23 on 13/06/2010 10:47:21 Originally by: Diomedes Calypso I've only seen a few where the backstory made some sense. BPO's can really be quite expensive, and for things like captial ships.. I can see someone with 50 or 100 billion of their own isk having the knowledge to run another operation profitably while borrowing while he has his own isk committed to some large high return projects like funding a titan or two etc.. The whole notion that someone needs isk for trading is beyond me... its a catch 22.. if they're good at trading the don't need isk and if they're not good at trading why would you give them isk to trade with at high interest? The example you cite only differs from smaller offerings in its scale. Just as someone withn 50-100bil might want to borrow money because he has more time and ideas than his own capital can fill, so too might someone who has 5-10bil, or 500mil-1bil. The only real difference is that, due to the problems of scaling, players with 5 bil should be able to earn another 5 bil rather more quickly than players with 50 bil can earn another 50. But given the compressed nature of game time (that is, the rapid speed at which money can be accumulated along with the comparatively short likely length of any individuals' eve career), moving your earnings potential forward by just 6-10weeks or so can be a very significant boost. Edit - On another note, this offer will smell distinctly fishy (this is phrased as moderately as possible) unless the OP can come up with a stellar explanation as to why an audit is best avoided.

Ophias	Posted - 2010.06.13 13:40:00 - [41] Much as I enjoyed the haiku, I am also withdrawing. Once you either have a track record or an audit, I would be happy to invest.
israus	Posted - 2010.06.13 15:27:00 - [42] I find this quiet funny really , guy posts on alt to secure money saying he'll get an aduit. people righting complain about the fact its an alt requesting money but still enough people back offering pending an audit so op claims its full and discloses the name of another random alt which he say's he's never really played on. then the op decides to cancel said audit and bluff his way to the money.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.13 17:18:00 - [43] Guys, I have no problem getting an audit done as I have nothing to hide. I regret writing that post as I didn't make my reasonings clear. Oh well, how frustrating. I just don't want this bond to turn into a stagnant morass of "audit pending". Apparently, I have no alternative though. When it comes to getting an audit, I am not sure what my options are as I am rather new to this. Maybe someone can help me out. Based on my EVE-Search skills, I have found 3 auditors that still do audits: 1) Vaerah Vahrokha - Can't do it. Busy IRL. 2) Varo Jan - Seems very busy with his bond. I will ask him though. 3) Lord Arbalest - Is also running a station trader bond and would be a conflict of interest. If anyone can point me in the right direction that would be helpful. There is a definite lack of FAQ when it comes to this. Thank you
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.06.13 17:33:00 - [44] Originally by: Cheque Please If anyone can point me in the right direction that would be helpful. Here. Might I add that changing your position then going back to it is a bit wish washy. Don't try to blame it on "misunderstanding" or "misstating". You clearly & definitively decided to not get audited. You went so far as to say, "Woohoo, bring on the old days." So please stop whining now that the horse has thrown you down. Speaking of analogies using horses, now that you've broken your chances could you get someone to shoot this thread in the head? I personally find it troubling when a corpse keeps twitching. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.13 17:41:00 - [45] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Cheque Please If anyone can point me in the right direction that would be helpful. Here. Might I add that changing your position then going back to it is a bit wish washy. Don't try to blame it on "misunderstanding" or "misstating". You clearly & definitively decided to not get audited. You went so far as to say, "Woohoo, bring on the old days." So please stop whining now that the horse has thrown you down. Speaking of analogies using horses, now that you've broken your chances could you get someone to shoot this thread in the head? I personally find it troubling when a corpse keeps twitching. Yeah, I admit I made a rash decision. I admit I could have ran this a bit more level-headed. We all make mistakes, I suppose. I will refrain from Saturday night postings in the future. You know what they say about generalities. They tend to make a General out of me and an ity out of some guy named Al... er... wait a second... Anyway, I'm not sure how a link to Crime and Punishment will help, so I assume you are trolling me. Thank you very much Shar Tegral. I know I have absolutely no underhanded motives behind this. But I guess it's guilty until proven otherwise in these here parts of town. ;) --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
RAW23	Posted - 2010.06.13 18:12:00 - [46] Edited by: RAW23 on 13/06/2010 18:12:37 Originally by: Cheque Please Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Cheque Please If anyone can point me in the right direction that would be helpful. Here. Might I add that changing your position then going back to it is a bit wish washy. Don't try to blame it on "misunderstanding" or "misstating". You clearly & definitively decided to not get audited. You went so far as to say, "Woohoo, bring on the old days." So please stop whining now that the horse has thrown you down. Speaking of analogies using horses, now that you've broken your chances could you get someone to shoot this thread in the head? I personally find it troubling when a corpse keeps twitching. Yeah, I admit I made a rash decision. I admit I could have ran this a bit more level-headed. We all make mistakes, I suppose. I will refrain from Saturday night postings in the future. You know what they say about generalities. They tend to make a General out of me and an ity out of some guy named Al... er... wait a second... Anyway, I'm not sure how a link to Crime and Punishment will help, so I assume you are trolling me. Thank you very much Shar Tegral. I know I have absolutely no underhanded motives behind this. But I guess it's guilty until proven otherwise in these here parts of town. ;) I don't see a problem with correcting yourself when you saw what potential investors required. Not great to ditch the audit in the first place but much better to return to your earlier position than to stick to your guns for the sake of it. Get the audit done and you will probably find that investors come back. Avoiding an audit made it look like you had something to hide. Getting one done should dispell that. Possible additions to your list (although I'm not sure how active they are): Breaker77 Kazuo Ishiguro As to Lord A. running a station trading bond, I wouldn't worry too much about that. For all you know, the other auditors might dabble in station trading too. I must confess that I had the same concerns as you when I ran my first bond but I've mellowed on the topic a bit since. It is a potential worry and one for which guilt is pretty much unprovable. So let's say it's possible but very unlikely (based on the zero accusations that have been leveled on this front). But even if you did end up with one more competitor, would it make that much difference? It might, it might not. But assuming you are getting similar margins to most other competent traders (as opposed to having found the holy grail of markets) I doubt they would either want your markets badly enough or would do much damage to them if they did get involved. Edit - And if you need help financing the audit get in touch with SetrakDark at the MD audit fund.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.13 18:23:00 - [47] Thanks for the sage advice Raw. I appreciate the advice; I have contacted SetrakDark, and will see about the availability of the other auditors. I will be busy for most of the day, popping into this thread here and there when I can. Please don't burn me to a stake in my absence. Thank you --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Saidin Thor	Posted - 2010.06.13 19:35:00 - [48] I think it's acceptable too. Put me down on the waiting list for 250m.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.13 20:14:00 - [49] Edited by: Cheque Please on 13/06/2010 20:14:34 Originally by: Roguehalo Originally by: Roguehalo Scam is obvious. qft If I go into a casino like Rainman and call out "ACE OF SPADES" at every opportunity, eventually the card is going to land. Does that make me an idiot savant, or just an idiot? --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.06.13 21:00:00 - [50] Originally by: Cheque Please Edited by: Cheque Please on 13/06/2010 20:14:34 Originally by: Roguehalo Originally by: Roguehalo Scam is obvious. qft If I go into a casino like Rainman and call out "ACE OF SPADES" at every opportunity, eventually the card is going to land. Does that make me an idiot savant, or just an idiot? That's a nice analogy! Too bad it requires too much info on account of the reader, but it does convey the proper idea. Though frankly : Face it, no track record + wishy washy posting + reluctance to get an audit + backtracking when things heat up = easy to call scam. I wouldn't want to get an audit either if I were in your shoes : By the time the whole thing goes through you should have already doubled, tripled or quadrupled your own NAV making the entire thread moot. You are actively trading right? not just waiting for this bond to launch before dippin' into the wondrous world of trading?

Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.13 21:22:00 - [51] Edited by: Cheque Please on 13/06/2010 21:23:30 I have never had a problem with giving away my API keys or disclosing my main character. It's not secrecy that's my issue -- it's getting the audit itself! Yes, I am actively trading. And you are quite right. By the time this thing goes through, I suspect my NAV will be quite a bit higher than the 700m I previously listed a couple of days ago. And I look forward to addressing the future accusations of "SCAM!" based on the discrepancy in networth. I still would love the 3 billion though, as there are plenty of avenues for more profit that I identify right now, but am prohibited from "dipping my toes into" because I do not have enough ISK to spread. Originally by: Saidin Thor I think it's acceptable too. Put me down on the waiting list for 250m. Btw, thank you very much. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
israus	Posted - 2010.06.13 21:46:00 - [52] Originally by: Cheque Please Edited by: Cheque Please on 13/06/2010 21:27:30 Btw, thank you very much. Edit: What it really boils down to, I think, is that you people are prejudiced against black exclamation marks. no i'd say people are just prejudiced against posters looking for money, promising one thing, going back on there promise. then reverting back to it once they release the investors are such mugs. i'm not going to call you a scammer but its easy to say why some would, I just think your lazy. its been a week since you posted this offer. 6 days since you posted saying it was filled and you'd be looking for an audit asap. and your still here posting crap trying to defend your position without having done the leg work or the research to get an audit. what makes me laugh the most is you knew an audit would be required because you posted saying you'd get one in your original post. yet 7 days later your posting making excuses as to why you can't get one and then claiming ignorance on how to get one.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.13 21:53:00 - [53] Quote: no i'd say people are just prejudiced against posters looking for money, promising one thing, going back on there promise. then reverting back to it once they release the investors are such mugs. i'm not going to call you a scammer but its easy to say why some would, I just think your lazy. its been a week since you posted this offer. 6 days since you posted saying it was filled and you'd be looking for an audit asap. and your still here posting crap trying to defend your position without having done the leg work or the research to get an audit. what makes me laugh the most is you knew an audit would be required because you posted saying you'd get one in your original post. yet 7 days later your posting making excuses as to why you can't get one and then claiming ignorance on how to get one. Fair enough opinion. Instead of calling me lazy, however, maybe consider that auditors tend to be busy with their own thing and are unavailable to conduct an audit for my bond. What options does that leave me with? --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
israus	Posted - 2010.06.13 22:06:00 - [54] Originally by: Cheque Please Fair enough opinion. Instead of calling me lazy, however, maybe consider that auditors tend to be busy with their own thing and are unavailable to conduct an audit for my bond. What options does that leave me with? doing your research if you'd bothered to do it, you'd have known about the MD audit fund who might have also helped find an auditor with the free time to do it for you. though even if they helped with that I think you'll struggle to get an auditor to do it. in your case an audit won't show much up your a very new alt. so an audit probably won't reveal much and LA seems to be the only really active auditor at the moment who you've already ruled out.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.13 22:14:00 - [55] Originally by: israus Originally by: Cheque Please Fair enough opinion. Instead of calling me lazy, however, maybe consider that auditors tend to be busy with their own thing and are unavailable to conduct an audit for my bond. What options does that leave me with? doing your research if you'd bothered to do it, you'd have known about the MD audit fund who might have also helped find an auditor with the free time to do it for you. though even if they helped with that I think you'll struggle to get an auditor to do it. in your case an audit won't show much up your a very new alt. so an audit probably won't reveal much and LA seems to be the only really active auditor at the moment who you've already ruled out. To answer your questions: The MD audit fund does not help find an auditor. They subsidize the cost of having an audit done. This is an alt account, but I have already revealed the name of my main. Plus, I'd let the auditor have free reign to look over both accounts, including the main one I currently trade with. I ruled LA out, yeah, but Raw23 convinced me I was being stupid. Most of the people here with billions of ISK probably won't be in the same markets I am. So I sent LA an EVE-Mail this morning. I'm waiting on his reply. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
israus	Posted - 2010.06.13 22:36:00 - [56] Originally by: Cheque Please To answer your questions: The MD audit fund does not help find an auditor. They subsidize the cost of having an audit done. This is an alt account, but I have already revealed the name of my main. Plus, I'd let the auditor have free reign to look over both accounts, including the main one I currently trade with. I ruled LA out, yeah, but Raw23 convinced me I was being stupid. Most of the people here with billions of ISK probably won't be in the same markets I am. So I sent LA an EVE-Mail this morning. I'm waiting on his reply. i'm sure the audit fund doesn't find you an auditor but i'm sure if you'd have went to them last week and asked them for funding. and then asked for advice on an auditor they'd have "helped" by giving you all the names of current auditors and advice on who's the best to contact. see there that's help. as for LA well I hope for your sake he can do an audit and doesn't find any issue's , because given the way you've flip flopped through this thread the only way your going to get any funding now or in the future with those chars is by completing a successful audit and being fully open with the auditor something you have struggled to do with your investor through this thread.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.13 22:44:00 - [57] Originally by: israus Originally by: Cheque Please To answer your questions: The MD audit fund does not help find an auditor. They subsidize the cost of having an audit done. This is an alt account, but I have already revealed the name of my main. Plus, I'd let the auditor have free reign to look over both accounts, including the main one I currently trade with. I ruled LA out, yeah, but Raw23 convinced me I was being stupid. Most of the people here with billions of ISK probably won't be in the same markets I am. So I sent LA an EVE-Mail this morning. I'm waiting on his reply. i'm sure the audit fund doesn't find you an auditor but i'm sure if you'd have went to them last week and asked them for funding. and then asked for advice on an auditor they'd have "helped" by giving you all the names of current auditors and advice on who's the best to contact. see there that's help. as for LA well I hope for your sake he can do an audit and doesn't find any issue's , because given the way you've flip flopped through this thread the only way your going to get any funding now or in the future with those chars is by completing a successful audit and being fully open with the auditor something you have struggled to do with your investor through this thread. Chalk it up to inexperience and naivetT. A man can grow a lot in a week of MD crossfire. I've got calluses on my fingers already. I know I'm 100% legit, but by now I've come to realize not everyone may share that point with me. If/when I secure an auditor, you'll find that everything I own in EVE will be fully open to him to appraise. In the meantime, my NAV is slowly increasing -- even when I cry over the potential deals that I have to pass up. I mean, all these people in Jita selling Navy Ravens for 370m!?!?! That's a 80 million profit alone people. Invest quick, and I'll grab them right now! ^^^^ joke --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Lord Arbalest Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.06.14 00:25:00 - [58] Edited by: Lord Arbalest on 14/06/2010 00:35:28 Edited by: Lord Arbalest on 14/06/2010 00:25:58 Originally by: Cheque Please So I sent LA an EVE-Mail this morning. I'm waiting on his reply. Unfortunately I find myself tied up for the next few days and therefore would not be able to start an audit straight away. Roughly speaking, Thursday to Friday I potentially would be able to make a start, and aim to finish sometime late this coming weekend. (Pending no problems/time issues for chatting with you). I'm sure there are others who can get the ball rolling 'right now', if not, let me know.
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.06.14 00:58:00 - [59] Originally by: israus Originally by: Cheque Please Fair enough opinion. Instead of calling me lazy, however, maybe consider that auditors tend to be busy with their own thing and are unavailable to conduct an audit for my bond. What options does that leave me with? doing your research if you'd bothered to do it, you'd have known about the MD audit fund who might have also helped find an auditor with the free time to do it for you. though even if they helped with that I think you'll struggle to get an auditor to do it. in your case an audit won't show much up your a very new alt. so an audit probably won't reveal much and LA seems to be the only really active auditor at the moment who you've already ruled out. Or, my gosh, just click on the 'market alerts mailing list' link in the sig of your top reservation and read the thread and realize that you can mail to that list, in game, that you are looking for an auditor. There's over 400 people subscribed to that list and every single auditor I know is a subscriber to the list as well. Pretty sure you'd have found an auditor pretty quickly, or at least solid advice on who to talk to. It's not that you didn't do research.. It's that you didn't even bother to TRY to do research. Market Alerts Mailing List
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.14 02:01:00 - [60] Quote: Or, my gosh, just click on the 'market alerts mailing list' link in the sig of your top reservation and read the thread and realize that you can mail to that list, in game, that you are looking for an auditor. There's over 400 people subscribed to that list and every single auditor I know is a subscriber to the list as well. Pretty sure you'd have found an auditor pretty quickly, or at least solid advice on who to talk to. It's not that you didn't do research.. It's that you didn't even bother to TRY to do research. I am very, very sorry I missed the tiny, tiny link in the bottom of your signature that linked to your own initiative. Thanks for the heads up; I had indeed missed that in the few minutes between waking up one morning and typing up furiously my bond offer. I will use it in the future. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba

Kalanar Wrecking Shots Hostile Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.14 06:42:00 - [61] Well, it most certainly smells like a scam - I'm sure we can all see that - but you have to hand it to the man, he certainly manages to stay cool under pressure and he certainly can type up an IPO "like a pro". I won't be investing, but good luck. Its just too risky.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.14 07:42:00 - [62] Quote: Sorry, getting an audit is neither difficult nor painful Quote: what makes me laugh the most is you knew an audit would be required because you posted saying you'd get one in your original post. yet 7 days later your posting making excuses as to why you can't get one and then claiming ignorance on how to get one. I have some records of the person searching for auditors for some time and asking me how the hell get hold of one. I made him some names including Setradark and Ji Sama - I don't care to give away potential customers: auditing is not even a money maker for me - but they really seem all busy forever. Quote: There's over 400 people subscribed to that list and every single auditor I know is a subscriber to the list as well I am not subscribed, CBA to have the 12th flashing tab on my chat window, to replicate for a dozen characters. I am in SCC-lounge, who needs an audit the few times I have time for it, can contact me here or via mail. Quote: I had indeed missed that in the few minutes between waking up one morning and typing up furiously my bond offer. Free tip: be it because many here want to RP bankers, financers and whatsnot or be it because they want an high entry barrier against noob scammers, they rightly demand a "serious" bond offer, like you were to ask money to RL investors. RL investors would not settle for a "woke up and typed furiosly" bond offer, wouldn't they? So why should MD ones do? Also, keep learning and correcting on your ways and beliefs and operativity, people are REALLY awaiting someone to toss their billions to, you have just to pass the noob scammer barrier. Only those who break and nerd rage out are usually marked as "no good => thrash" in a final way. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.14 08:44:00 - [63] Edited by: Cheque Please on 14/06/2010 08:55:46 /transition And that's why it's tough to get an audit. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
RAW23	Posted - 2010.06.14 09:33:00 - [64] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Finally, please stop asking me for free audits via Setradark. For some reason love never happened and I am not in the number of his organization auditors. The audit fund doesn't have anything to do with free audits. Nor does it have a prescribed list of auditors. If someone asks you to do a funded audit, just quote them your normal price. The fund's role will just be to help pay some or all of your fee.
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.06.14 17:19:00 - [65] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 14/06/2010 17:22:55 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: There's over 400 people subscribed to that list and every single auditor I know is a subscriber to the list as well I am not subscribed, CBA to have the 12th flashing tab on my chat window, to replicate for a dozen characters. You misunderstand. It's a mailing list, not a chat room. Chat rooms only work if people are actually online when you are. The mailing list is just an extra evemail every now and then. It is not spammy at all. But nobody is forcing anyone to join :) It's just a useful way to get in touch with interested parties even when they're not currently online. As a bonus, since it's a mailing list, you can even check it from eve-gate when you're not in game. Market Alerts Mailing List
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.14 20:25:00 - [66] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 14/06/2010 20:25:40 Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 14/06/2010 17:22:55 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: There's over 400 people subscribed to that list and every single auditor I know is a subscriber to the list as well I am not subscribed, CBA to have the 12th flashing tab on my chat window, to replicate for a dozen characters. You misunderstand. It's a mailing list, not a chat room. Chat rooms only work if people are actually online when you are. The mailing list is just an extra evemail every now and then. It is not spammy at all. But nobody is forcing anyone to join :) It's just a useful way to get in touch with interested parties even when they're not currently online. As a bonus, since it's a mailing list, you can even check it from eve-gate when you're not in game. Ah ah! Sorry about that, I have the brain on autopilot some times. The second I see people trying to "recruit" others in something I automagically assume they want you in the "newest and most unique exclusive chat" (4 people in it at prime time tops). - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.15 21:24:00 - [67] Just dropping by to say that I am still looking for a friendly audit. If you're available / up for it, please send me an EVE-Mail or post here. And... um... in other news, selling a wormhole if anyone's interested. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Ophias	Posted - 2010.06.16 22:02:00 - [68] Edited by: Ophias on 16/06/2010 22:02:17 After a particularly pleasing football result, a good day at work, and some off-line correspondence with the bond seller I have decide to suspend my suspicion, believe in all that is good in the world, and take a punt on this for 500 mill. But only if Cheque Please writes me another haiku. Keep me happy Mr Cheque Please...
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.16 22:13:00 - [69] Originally by: Ophias Edited by: Ophias on 16/06/2010 22:02:17 After a particularly pleasing football result, a good day at work, and some off-line correspondence with the bond seller I have decide to suspend my suspicion, believe in all that is good in the world, and take a punt on this for 500 mill. But only if Cheque Please writes me another haiku. Keep me happy Mr Cheque Please... Hey Ophias, I replied in game with more detail. Check your EVE-Mail. To summarize for everyone else, I want to run this legit. I have returned Ophias' 500mil. Please don't send me any funds at this time. I'm still trying my damnedest to get an audit done. I'm still frustrated I tried to pull what looked like a "fast one" without having the patience to explain my motives or my reasoning behind such a 'rash' decision. I want to apologize for that, as well as for some of my more flippant answers (including the original post, which is full of that stuff ). Suffice to say, I think the audit will prove that I am exactly who I say I am. Your investment should be based on that alone, not anything I say here. And, also, I will slap anyone with a trout who says this is just a ploy to get more money before puffing in a cloud of smoke ninja style. I'm not nearly patient enough for that, as I'm sure has become obvious. Maybe if this was real life I would be proud of scamming millions of dollars successfully... but considering this is internet spaceships and there is no inherent responsibility for my actions, then it's just a bitter meh. Too many idiots have done it already for it to be original. In fact, it's more unique at this point to do it legit. Take care everyone, I think I know what football match you were referring to Ophias. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
MeSo ANGRY	Posted - 2010.06.17 17:57:00 - [70] Edited by: MeSo ANGRY on 17/06/2010 17:58:44 i hope nobody is thinking this is legit.

Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.06.17 19:10:00 - [71] Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 17/06/2010 19:10:30 Originally by: Cheque Please Edited by: Cheque Please on 16/06/2010 22:30:08 Originally by: Ophias Edited by: Ophias on 16/06/2010 22:02:17 After a particularly pleasing football result, a good day at work, and some off-line correspondence with the bond seller I have decide to suspend my suspicion, believe in all that is good in the world, and take a punt on this for 500 mill. But only if Cheque Please writes me another haiku. Keep me happy Mr Cheque Please... Hey Ophias, I replied in game with more detail. Check your EVE-Mail. To summarize for everyone else, I want to run this legit. I have returned Ophias' 500mil. Please don't send me any funds at this time. I'm still trying my damnedest to get an audit done. I'm still frustrated I tried to pull what looked like a "fast one" without having the patience to explain my motives or my reasoning behind such a 'rash' decision. I want to apologize for that, as well as for some of my more flippant answers (including the original post, which is full of that stuff ). Suffice to say, I think the audit will prove that I am exactly who I say I am. Your investment should be based on that alone, not anything I say here. And, also, I will slap anyone with a trout who says this is just a ploy to get more money before puffing in a cloud of smoke ninja style. I'm not nearly patient enough for that, as I'm sure has become obvious. Maybe if this was real life I would be proud of scamming millions of dollars successfully... but considering this is internet spaceships and there is no inherent responsibility for my actions, then it's just a bitter meh. Too many idiots have done it already for it to be original. In fact, it's more unique at this point to do it legit. Take care everyone, I think I know what football match you were referring to Ophias. Edit: And I didn't realize I'm posting roughly 10 min after Ophias did. I just literally sat down. Ophias is not my alt, though that would be pretty funny if it were true. I'll work on that haiku. Just for you. Woah, mad rhymes. *HE WANTS MOAH ISK: SCAM* I'm waiting for that trout.
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.06.17 19:33:00 - [72] Originally by: MeSo ANGRY i hope nobody is thinking this is legit. he created an EVE meme - nobody cares whether this is legit or not.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.17 23:05:00 - [73] Edited by: Cheque Please on 17/06/2010 23:11:00 Originally by: Mme Pinkerton Originally by: MeSo ANGRY i hope nobody is thinking this is legit. he created an EVE meme - nobody cares whether this is legit or not. I just can't win, can I? I could be giving away billions of ISK in this thread and people would still find ways to call me a scammer. Edit: Here, let's try it. In my wallet is 63 billion isk, send me any amount you like and in 10 seconds or less you will receive TRIPLE the amount you sent me. Yes, if you send me 10m isk, you will receive 50m back. Guaranteed!!!11!!!11 Try your luck. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.17 23:41:00 - [74] Originally by: Cheque Please Edit: Here, let's try it. In my wallet is 63 billion isk, send me any amount you like and in 10 seconds or less you will receive TRIPLE the amount you sent me. Yes, if you send me 10m isk, you will receive 50m back. Guaranteed!!!11!!!11 Try your luck. Flippant little ******, aren't you? What did the audit fund say when you asked for their help?
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.17 23:45:00 - [75] Edited by: Cheque Please on 17/06/2010 23:48:01 Originally by: Varo Jan Originally by: Cheque Please Edit: Here, let's try it. In my wallet is 63 billion isk, send me any amount you like and in 10 seconds or less you will receive TRIPLE the amount you sent me. Yes, if you send me 10m isk, you will receive 50m back. Guaranteed!!!11!!!11 Try your luck. Flippant little ******, aren't you? What did the audit fund say when you asked for their help? I just can't help it, I guess. As for the MD audit fund, we talked, but nothing came of it. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Ezzia Minmatar Oryllium Equinox	Posted - 2010.06.18 11:33:00 - [76] Given his proposed age - I find it a little interesting that he incorporates thematic elements from other posters / offerings that people have enjoyed in the past. I normally reserve posting in MD since I don't invest, but as a service to all the investors out there, this really does smell of a dedicated and coherent scammer to me. I would not invest personally audit or no audit. I am still VERY interested to see the audit. And if, at two months into the game, you possess enough knowledge of the game to be making greater than 12% margins to actually make this worthwhile for yourself, I personally commend you for a job well done. You will have no need for investors or help in succeeding in Eve. But in actuality, I very must distrust you. On a final note since this thread for some reason holds more interest for me than usual, if your willing to talk to me in game I will audit you. I am not a MD Regular or a known auditor - this would be the first audit I have ever done. But I'm more than capable. Your investors may still desire to have someone more well known than me, which you can still get done, but in the meantime I will provide a basic idea to them of what is going on.
Lord Arbalest Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.06.18 11:55:00 - [77] Edited by: Lord Arbalest on 18/06/2010 11:58:30 Originally by: Ezzia Edited by: Ezzia on 18/06/2010 11:52:13 Given his proposed age - I find it a little interesting that he incorporates thematic elements from other posters / offerings that people have enjoyed in the past. I normally reserve posting in MD since I don't invest, but as a service to all the investors out there, this really does smell of a dedicated and coherent scammer to me. I would not invest personally audit or no audit. I am still VERY interested to see the audit. And if, at two months into the game, you possess enough knowledge of the game to be making greater than 12% margins to actually make this worthwhile for yourself, I personally commend you for a job well done. You will have no need for investors or help in succeeding in Eve. But in actuality, I very must distrust you. On a final note since this thread for some reason holds more interest for me than usual, if your willing to talk to me in game I will audit you. I am not a MD Regular or a known auditor - this would be the first audit I have ever done. But I'm more than capable. Your investors may still desire to have someone more well known than me, which you can still get done, but in the meantime I will provide a basic idea to them of what is going on. Edit: Just to clarify what an audit means to me: we will obviously talk beforehand on what exactly your comfortable with revealing from your API. I will not overstep your wishes in publishing your personal data. I will merely do what I have to in order to provide some substance to a recommendation of whether or not this is a valid investment other than my previous inclination. And as far as my previous inclination, it will not influence my quantitative analysis, but I still think you're here for a quick buck. I believe this is your first post on the EVE forums, let alone MD. How can you prove you are not an alt/main of the OP and/or friend?
Ezzia Minmatar Oryllium Equinox	Posted - 2010.06.18 12:29:00 - [78] Edited by: Ezzia on 18/06/2010 12:33:58 Edited by: Ezzia on 18/06/2010 12:33:44 I checked my own posting history and was surprised to see the same fact. I've been lurking for far too long! I am neither the OP's friend or main/alt. I guess the only way to prove it is with my limited API. Which doesn't really prove much one way or the other, other than the fact that if I am his main (because I have been playing a lot longer than him), I'm on a different account. My two alts on this account have more posts than my main (although I am a notorious lurker for the most part). Vizia Bliss seems to have a grand total of four. And Akemi Mizugaki has a glorious single post of idyllic stupidity about potentially creating an extremely noobish carebear corporation that I never ended up creating as Eve is full of antisocial people! Edit for fun: I also expect my audit of his wallet to show that he is probably earning less than he thinks he is earning, and investment is futile. It's not like he's asking me to audit a T2 reaction chain. But that is here nor there, considering nothing has been done.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster	Posted - 2010.06.18 12:57:00 - [79] A good auditor does not have preconceived ideas or thoughts about a venture/business. He lets the facts do the talking, and thats it. He doesn't even provide an opinion.
Ezzia Minmatar Oryllium Equinox	Posted - 2010.06.18 14:24:00 - [80] I'm not denying that I have feelings - and that doesn't detract from my ability to successfully audit. Much like scientific research objectivity is void even if the researcher is trying to stay neutral. He/she must design an experiment that precludes researcher influence because it is impossible to avoid your opinion. My opinion will have no impact on my quantitative research.

Ophias	Posted - 2010.06.18 15:32:00 - [81] Goodness me you lot are a jaded bunch. Confirming I did indeed send 500 mill and it was returned. I have faith in people on the odd occasion. Its a shame some of you others don't. You should try it sometimes, it's strangely uplifting. Bit like that football result. Anyway, I realise no-one will believe that I am not one of Cheque Please's alts. I am happy to post whatever evidence you want me to in support of the truth.
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.06.18 15:40:00 - [82] If you want to prove your plan is ok and you're financially stable you need to submit yourself to multiple audits if required. Also you need to be the one actively searching both in game and on forums for the auditors don't expect them coming to you begging can i pls audit you pls i need rep pls?After you've done that and ppl see the risk vs reward rate they will decide for themselves. In my case my project was regarded as high risk but i still got filled pretty fast so in the end of the day if you've not done anything super gruesome and your plan is not total failure audit should drive your stuff where you want it. knowledge is power
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.18 19:54:00 - [83] Originally by: Grozen If you want to prove your plan is ok and you're financially stable you need to submit yourself to multiple audits if required. Holy smokes, multiple audits? I'm having enough trouble securing one... not to mention paying for it. But, I should say I'm now 600m richer after FINALLY getting my 2 PLEX CCP owned me. So I'm in a good mood. Ezzia, I will not say anything sharp or witty in regards to you thinking I am a dedicated scammer, but I do appreciate it that you've offered yourself to audit me. At this point, I am going to have to decline b/c having an unknown auditor audit me is only going to dig myself deeper into a hole. And I have to laugh at how you are now suspected of being my alt. Welcome to my world. Have a wonderful weekend everyone. It's hot as hell outside. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.06.18 19:58:00 - [84] Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 18/06/2010 19:58:57 Originally by: Cheque Please Originally by: Grozen If you want to prove your plan is ok and you're financially stable you need to submit yourself to multiple audits if required. Holy smokes, multiple audits? I'm having enough trouble securing one... not to mention paying for it. If you get an audit by someone completely unknown to MD you should expect having to get a second one by a "trusted" auditor. If you get an audit by a trusted auditor (I think the names have already been tossed around earlier in this thread), there should be no need to get a second one done. In the end it's your potential investors who get to decide how many hoops you have to jump through. As to your "not to mention paying for it" remark - the MD audit fund has been pointed out to you, contact them. They might also be able to give you some advice on how to secure an audit by a well-respected member of the MD community.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.18 20:03:00 - [85] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 18/06/2010 19:58:57 Originally by: Cheque Please Originally by: Grozen If you want to prove your plan is ok and you're financially stable you need to submit yourself to multiple audits if required. Holy smokes, multiple audits? I'm having enough trouble securing one... not to mention paying for it. If you get an audit by someone completely unknown to MD you should expect having to get a second one by a "trusted" auditor. If you get an audit by a trusted auditor (I think the names have already been tossed around earlier in this thread), there should be no need to get a second one done. In the end it's your potential investors who get to decide how many hoops you have to jump through. As to your "not to mention paying for it" remark - the MD audit fund has been pointed out to you, contact them. They might also be able to give you some advice on how to secure an audit by a well-respected member of the MD community. Hmm, good point! If you'd like to audit me Ezzia for practice and credibility, then by all means. I don't mind... so long as you don't steal my top secret trade secrets. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Vikarion Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.06.19 05:40:00 - [86] Cheque Please, I don't post here much, but I've invested in IPOs before and I read this section (MD) quite a bit. I also trade and manufacture more than most. I've never been scammed in any of my investments, and I pulled my cash out of EBank before the Ricdic affair. Granted, I'm not going to try to prove any of this, I'm just trying to tell you where I am coming from. My advice to you is, go buy a few plex and use that for capital. Unless you are scamming, or seriously enjoy wasting time, jumping through hoops to please investors here is not worth the time or effort. Nor are the headaches of dealing with those who wish to withdraw early, the endless attacks on your character, or the continuing claims by the MD regulars that you are just building up for a bigger and better scam even if you pay out every bond you do. Don't blame them: this is, indeed, how most scammers manage to attract major investments. There is no way, these days, to correctly ascertain the intentions of an IPO operator. Audits do not work and a track record means little, as persons with those still choose to scam. Go buy some PLEX, or run some missions. Don't waste your time here. - - -
Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.06.19 12:05:00 - [87] Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 19/06/2010 12:05:07 Originally by: Vikarion Cheque Please, I don't post here much, but I've invested in IPOs before and I read this section (MD) quite a bit. I also trade and manufacture more than most. I've never been scammed in any of my investments, and I pulled my cash out of EBank before the Ricdic affair. Granted, I'm not going to try to prove any of this, I'm just trying to tell you where I am coming from. My advice to you is, go buy a few plex and use that for capital. Unless you are scamming, or seriously enjoy wasting time, jumping through hoops to please investors here is not worth the time or effort. Nor are the headaches of dealing with those who wish to withdraw early, the endless attacks on your character, or the continuing claims by the MD regulars that you are just building up for a bigger and better scam even if you pay out every bond you do. Don't blame them: this is, indeed, how most scammers manage to attract major investments. There is no way, these days, to correctly ascertain the intentions of an IPO operator. Audits do not work and a track record means little, as persons with those still choose to scam. Go buy some PLEX, or run some missions. Don't waste your time here. As a small addendum to this small pearl of wisdom ( no irony here, I mean it ): The only time you would need to access the MDs wealth is when you are setting up something huge. This means Bad Bobby style stuff or One Stop scope. Think a minimum of 60B, but more aimed at 100B. The small problem with this is, indeed, getting a track record. Which leads to the following : The only reason to ever launch a small time (say 2b-10b) venture is to do exactly that which you will be accused of : Building a proper track record! I was pondering this a little while back myself : There are times when I am swimming in time and could very well set up something of a sizable scope, yet none would ever invest because I never completed some small fry bonds before. And what will happen if I do start with a small time bond? Every auditor will come up screaming that I have more than enough liquid isk spread around my accounts to fund my bonds two times over, and will scream : BUILDING TRACK RECORD, FOR MAJOR SCAM DOWN THE ROAD <---RED RED RED PENCIL (FLAG)
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.19 13:09:00 - [88] Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion The only time you would need to access the MDs wealth is when you are setting up something huge. This means Bad Bobby style stuff or One Stop scope. Think a minimum of 60B, but more aimed at 100B. The small problem with this is, indeed, getting a track record. One Stop was 175B and unusual. It was my first bond. However, it was a buyout of an existing enterprise with a good track record. Quote: The only reason to ever launch a small time (say 2b-10b) venture is to do exactly that which you will be accused of : Building a proper track record! Not so. There are plenty of individuals with surplus funds looking for investments. There is definitely a place for small scale bonds and IPOs in MD. Some of the successful ones never return for a larger offering. They achieved their objectives. The process is not as tortuous as some claim. It's actually very simple. The problem is that many come unprepared. 1. Research. Prepare a business plan. This doesn't need to be 25 pages long. 2. Research. Understand what MD would be looking for. Look at previous successful offerings. 3. Research. Which auditors are available? Contact them and the audit fund. Reach an agreement with one. Have an audit done. 4. Presentation. Launch your thread along with the audit report. 5. Answer questions sensibly. Don't get offended. Don't be flippant. Be prepared to amend your offering. 6. Launch. Quote: I was pondering this a little while back myself : There are times when I am swimming in time and could very well set up something of a sizable scope, yet none would ever invest because I never completed some small fry bonds before. You won't know how it will be received until you try it. Yes, it would be unusual. But nothing is impossible. Go on , be brave.
Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.06.19 13:47:00 - [89] Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 19/06/2010 13:48:52 Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 19/06/2010 13:48:05 Originally by: Varo Jan Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion The only time you would need to access the MDs wealth is when you are setting up something huge. This means Bad Bobby style stuff or One Stop scope. Think a minimum of 60B, but more aimed at 100B. The small problem with this is, indeed, getting a track record. One Stop was 175B and unusual. It was my first bond. However, it was a buyout of an existing enterprise with a good track record. Quote: The only reason to ever launch a small time (say 2b-10b) venture is to do exactly that which you will be accused of : Building a proper track record! Not so. There are plenty of individuals with surplus funds looking for investments. There is definitely a place for small scale bonds and IPOs in MD. Some of the successful ones never return for a larger offering. They achieved their objectives. The process is not as tortuous as some claim. It's actually very simple. The problem is that many come unprepared. 1. Research. Prepare a business plan. This doesn't need to be 25 pages long. 2. Research. Understand what MD would be looking for. Look at previous successful offerings. 3. Research. Which auditors are available? Contact them and the audit fund. Reach an agreement with one. Have an audit done. 4. Presentation. Launch your thread along with the audit report. 5. Answer questions sensibly. Don't get offended. Don't be flippant. Be prepared to amend your offering. 6. Launch. Quote: I was pondering this a little while back myself : There are times when I am swimming in time and could very well set up something of a sizable scope, yet none would ever invest because I never completed some small fry bonds before. You won't know how it will be received until you try it. Yes, it would be unusual. But nothing is impossible. Go on , be brave. I think you might have slightly misunderstood me on the second point you quoted. From the view of the serious issuer, there is little to no reason to launch a smaller IPO. This is because funds for these relatively small time things is more easily gotten via other ways. From the view of the investor, it's of little importance how big the potential IPO is, as long as it returns on his investment. He can always invest in more than one if he is left with isk to spare. I was talking about the issuer's POV, you are talking on behalf of the investor. I actually do know what would happen if I wrote up a plan for an IPO of about 60B, even if I have a proper business plan, contacted a proper auditor on forehand, presented it like i graduated from marketing school and answered questions like I was Confucius himself. That doesn't mean I will not try it when the proper time comes, I estimate my chances of success in the most optimal of circumstances to be around 15% and as such will not be expecting too much.
israus	Posted - 2010.06.19 14:31:00 - [90] Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion I think you might have slightly misunderstood me on the second point you quoted. From the view of the serious issuer, there is little to no reason to launch a smaller IPO. This is because funds for these relatively small time things is more easily gotten via other ways. From the view of the investor, it's of little importance how big the potential IPO is, as long as it returns on his investment. He can always invest in more than one if he is left with isk to spare. I was talking about the issuer's POV, you are talking on behalf of the investor. I actually do know what would happen if I wrote up a plan for an IPO of about 60B, even if I have a proper business plan, contacted a proper auditor on forehand, presented it like i graduated from marketing school and answered questions like I was Confucius himself. That doesn't mean I will not try it when the proper time comes, I estimate my chances of success in the most optimal of circumstances to be around 15% and as such will not be expecting too much. it all comes down to how secure people feel the investment is. if its a large 60-70-80b ipo but investors feel there money is secure they'll invest weather its a first time offering or a 100th the whole point of this is for the person looking for investment is to make the investors feel secure. the reason these types of trading bonds get such a hard time on here is because there isn't any really way to make an investor feel safe because there the easiest ones to scam from. if Cheque Please had come in looking for 3 bill for an indy bond he'd have gotten a far easier time on here then he has but few people bother with indy bonds any more.

Sagenklang Amarr	Posted - 2010.06.19 15:07:00 - [91] Originally by: Cheque Please Quote: What is your current net worth Somewhere around 700m, I'd say. Maybe a bit more. I have 440m in sell orders + 150m in escrow atm + 100m in my wallet. Assuming the sell orders won't sell at the current price and will go down a bit, I still have quite a few items sitting in inventory that I need to move -- so maybe another 100m to 150m there. I consider myself somewhat new to EVE still, and have also mostly made my money with trading so far. Reading your bond offer, I must say I admire how you are with this little experience so confident in your trading abilities. Personally, I don't do station trading much, but rather buy low - haul - sell high, but even with this, I get to about similar asset values as you - that is, just enough cash to put up market orders that are somewhere 5 or many more times the isk I have in my wallet while waiting for profits to roll in. You quote the "need isk to make isk" mantra, which is so true. However, my doubts with your proposed bond here are these: If you get your 3B and invest them, I have a bad feeling you might end up with more of that isk in open market orders than you need to pay back at the end of 60 days. I already have doubts that as inexperienced player, and trader especially, so you can earn much profit on top of the promised, remarkable, 12% to make it worth also your while, but also to actually get the 3B out again in the time, especially so as you have no assets to back up the case that you don't have as fast turn over in your orders as you might be in need of to liquidize the invested isk at the end of the bond. This all is, of course, in the case that a thorough audit would actually prove your statements right and accurate, and explain the irregularities in handling this bond with you being new to organizing a venture of that kind. In that case, too, I admire your braveness, but there is little to back your words, and our investments. Cheers
Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.06.19 17:11:00 - [92] Originally by: Sagenklang Originally by: Cheque Please Quote: What is your current net worth Somewhere around 700m, I'd say. Maybe a bit more. I have 440m in sell orders + 150m in escrow atm + 100m in my wallet. Assuming the sell orders won't sell at the current price and will go down a bit, I still have quite a few items sitting in inventory that I need to move -- so maybe another 100m to 150m there. I consider myself somewhat new to EVE still, and have also mostly made my money with trading so far. Reading your bond offer, I must say I admire how you are with this little experience so confident in your trading abilities. Personally, I don't do station trading much, but rather buy low - haul - sell high, but even with this, I get to about similar asset values as you - that is, just enough cash to put up market orders that are somewhere 5 or many more times the isk I have in my wallet while waiting for profits to roll in. You quote the "need isk to make isk" mantra, which is so true. However, my doubts with your proposed bond here are these: If you get your 3B and invest them, I have a bad feeling you might end up with more of that isk in open market orders than you need to pay back at the end of 60 days. I already have doubts that as inexperienced player, and trader especially, so you can earn much profit on top of the promised, remarkable, 12% to make it worth also your while, but also to actually get the 3B out again in the time, especially so as you have no assets to back up the case that you don't have as fast turn over in your orders as you might be in need of to liquidize the invested isk at the end of the bond. This all is, of course, in the case that a thorough audit would actually prove your statements right and accurate, and explain the irregularities in handling this bond with you being new to organizing a venture of that kind. In that case, too, I admire your braveness, but there is little to back your words, and our investments. Cheers It's 12% on just 3B in 2 months. You can make 12% on 3B per day, no sweat. Don't let that be an issue.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.20 02:12:00 - [93] Originally by: Vikarion Cheque Please, My advice to you is, go buy a few plex and use that for capital. Unless you are scamming, or seriously enjoy wasting time, jumping through hoops to please investors here is not worth the time or effort. Nor are the headaches of dealing with those who wish to withdraw early, the endless attacks on your character, or the continuing claims by the MD regulars that you are just building up for a bigger and better scam even if you pay out every bond you do. Don't blame them: this is, indeed, how most scammers manage to attract major investments. There is no way, these days, to correctly ascertain the intentions of an IPO operator. Audits do not work and a track record means little, as persons with those still choose to scam. Go buy some PLEX, or run some missions. Don't waste your time here. Hi Vikarion, Good advice, and I battled similar doubts prior to launching this. To answer your two suggestions: unfortunately I don't have the RL isk necessary to buy myself a bunch of PLEX for starting capital. Nor do I have a character capable of running L4's or anything else worth making real money from (and tbh I find missions rather dull and repetitive. I keep telling myself to run L2's to reduce broker fees... but it hasn't happened in a while). I started this bond to augment my available capital and shave off a few weeks of wasted time, and though there's been a few rough patches, if I didn't enjoy the challenge in some small way, I wouldn't still be here! As to your point about audits... they may not work, true. No matter what the data says, it's very possible I created my two accounts, one way back in 2007, solely with the foresight to launch this scam 3 years into the future. And no, I am not just being flippant. I understand that even trusted people with clean records like Ricdic (who I see ran EBank) can vanish into thin air. However, if it gives my investors a little more peace of mind that everything I have said so far about my accounts and activities are true, then an audit is worth it. I regret trying to proceed without an audit because I did not take the time to clarify my position. Getting an audit has been tough so far, but I'll keep trying if I have to. I really couldn't care less if someone looks at my history, beyond the fact that I don't want them budging into my current market! Originally by: Varo Jan 4. Presentation. Launch your thread along with the audit report. 5. Answer questions sensibly. Don't get offended. Don't be flippant. Be prepared to amend your offering. /foghorn leghorn I resemble that remark! Originally by: icarus if Cheque Please had come in looking for 3 bill for an indy bond he'd have gotten a far easier time on here then he has but few people bother with indy bonds any more. I am sorry to say I do not yet have a scientific or industrial based character. Hell, I've tried very hard to never mine a damn asteroid again after doing the first tutorial way back when. If it were to happen, it'd be sometime in the distant future. I have to make the isk first before I can amass a bunch of researchers, labs, and a POS. Until then, I trade. Originally by: Sagenklang Reading your bond offer, I must say I admire how you are with this little experience so confident in your trading abilities. Personally, I don't do station trading much, but rather buy low - haul - sell high I used to do exactly this until late last month! I cringe when I remember my region-wide salvage orders. Suffice to say, after some experimentation, I have switched to station trading. It's where the real money is, IMO. I try to update my biggest 10-20 orders every 3-5 hours... sometimes less, sometimes more when time permits -- and I still am making a good deal more than hauling. Even in smaller hubs like Hek (if you can't babysit orders), you can still make a tidy sum. Much easier and much safer than hauling. Try it; I may see you here in a month with an offer of your own. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.20 02:46:00 - [94] Edited by: Cheque Please on 20/06/2010 02:55:04 Edited by: Cheque Please on 20/06/2010 02:51:27 Edited by: Cheque Please on 20/06/2010 02:48:44 Edited by: Cheque Please on 20/06/2010 02:47:16 Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion It's 12% on just 3B in 2 months. You can make 12% on 3B per day, no sweat. Don't let that be an issue. Interested in a position as the People's Bond'sÖ very first Press Secretary? But to clarify real quick, Mr. Tony Snow, it's 24% in 2 months and 12% in one month. Trust me, I am quite aware that puts me at an official 720m deficit + any auditing fees. I cry at night thinking about how I will be sweating off millions of ISK, ISK all gained from the fruits of my hard labor... but then again, I can't make those billions of ISK without a big fat hacienda to toil over. Hey, you know what... forget the 12% interest. I see the real problem. All you damn fat cat MD elites are keeping us down. This is now officially the People's Bond. /Che íAy! Escuchen mis hermanos.íLa revoluci=n no es una manzana que cae cuando estß maduro. Tienes que hacer que se caiga! ... Hmm, anyway... given my current growth atm without any additional funds, I feel safe in my position that I will cover the 720m+ and then some. Although yeah, I spent a lot of time thinking of the proper rate for this. I nearly crapped my pants when I realized 12% of 3 bil was 320mil -- almost half of what I then had when I composed the first draft of the offer. I soon realized, however, that I would have a whole month to earn it back. Plus, I would be working 3 bil as opposed to my then 700m. In the end, I had to pick something so I chose 12%. As my capital increases, and if I ask for more money in a next bond, I will adjust the interest rate accordingly. That will largely depend on how I fared in this initial offer. I've heard it gets harder and harder to sustain a big interest rate the higher the principal gets (the 'glass ceiling' of trading, if you will), but we'll see when I get there. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
israus	Posted - 2010.06.20 08:56:00 - [95] Originally by: Cheque Please I am sorry to say I do not yet have a scientific or industrial based character. Hell, I've tried very hard to never mine a damn asteroid again after doing the first tutorial way back when. If it were to happen, it'd be sometime in the distant future. I have to make the isk first before I can amass a bunch of researchers, labs, and a POS. Until then, I trade. you don't need to mine to get into production research though doing so does increase your personal profit margins. and it wasn't posted to tell you to do that simply as a point that if the bond you had offered was industrial based you'd have had an easier ride in here.
Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.06.20 09:28:00 - [96] Originally by: israus Originally by: Cheque Please I am sorry to say I do not yet have a scientific or industrial based character. Hell, I've tried very hard to never mine a damn asteroid again after doing the first tutorial way back when. If it were to happen, it'd be sometime in the distant future. I have to make the isk first before I can amass a bunch of researchers, labs, and a POS. Until then, I trade. you don't need to mine to get into production research though doing so does increase your personal profit margins. and it wasn't posted to tell you to do that simply as a point that if the bond you had offered was industrial based you'd have had an easier ride in here. Mining yourself increase your personal profit margins? This is the offspring of the "minerals I mine are free" mentality. Mining the minerals yourself doesn't increase your profit, it makes you a tool. Think about it like this : In 1h you can mine the x minerals you need to produce y. Those x minerals cost z when bought on the market. In that same hour you could have made z^2 doing something else. Now tell me, did that increase your personal profit margin? Also: 12% per month?! That's a lot, well not in terms of being able to cough it up, but in terms of relativity.
israus	Posted - 2010.06.20 09:31:00 - [97] Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion Mining yourself increase your personal profit margins? This is the offspring of the "minerals I mine are free" mentality. Mining the minerals yourself doesn't increase your profit, it makes you a tool. Think about it like this : In 1h you can mine the x minerals you need to produce y. Those x minerals cost z when bought on the market. In that same hour you could have made z^2 doing something else. Now tell me, did that increase your personal profit margin? Also: 12% per month?! That's a lot, well not in terms of being able to cough it up, but in terms of relativity. lol I worded my post the way I did to see if i'd get a bite from one of you guys. yes he does increase his personal profits your an idiot if you can't see that you get 2 producers both build drakes one buys the minerals off the market for 23 mil and sells for 25 mil for a personal profit of 2 mil. other mines all his minerals making a personal profit of 25 mil. see how it works. it means you pay yourself for the minerals.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.20 09:38:00 - [98] Originally by: israus mining... it means you pay yourself for the minerals. But you lose a piece of your soul. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.06.20 09:39:00 - [99] Originally by: israus Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion Mining yourself increase your personal profit margins? This is the offspring of the "minerals I mine are free" mentality. Mining the minerals yourself doesn't increase your profit, it makes you a tool. Think about it like this : In 1h you can mine the x minerals you need to produce y. Those x minerals cost z when bought on the market. In that same hour you could have made z^2 doing something else. Now tell me, did that increase your personal profit margin? Also: 12% per month?! That's a lot, well not in terms of being able to cough it up, but in terms of relativity. lol I worded my post the way I did to see if i'd get a bite from one of you guys. yes he does increase his personal profits your an idiot if you can't see that you get 2 producers both build drakes one buys the minerals off the market for 23 mil and sells for 25 mil for a personal profit of 2 mil. other mines all his minerals making a personal profit of 25 mil. see how it works. it means you pay yourself for the minerals. Please tell me that your are trolling... Please.. No human being would consciously commit such a logical fallacy, if not to get a rise out of someone else.. Right?
israus	Posted - 2010.06.20 09:49:00 - [100] Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion Please tell me that your are trolling... Please.. No human being would consciously commit such a logical fallacy, if not to get a rise out of someone else.. Right? no i'm deffently looking to get a rise out of somebody else you in this case . but the logic is sound. if I mine enough minerals a day to keep a BPO in constant production i'm always going to make more money from that production then somebody buying minerals for production. i'll have done a damn sight more work for my money then the other guy but reap more rewards for it.

flakeys DRAMA Inc	Posted - 2010.06.20 10:21:00 - [101] Originally by: israus you get 2 producers both build drakes one buys the minerals off the market for 23 mil and sells for 25 mil for a personal profit of 2 mil. other mines all his minerals making a personal profit of 25 mil. see how it works. it means you pay yourself for the minerals. You got 2 producers. One builds drakes from his own mined minerals total market sale worth 23 mille and sells for 25 mille.Profit on that item is 2 mille. Overall profit 2 mille. Other producer mines 23 mille worth of minerals and resells for that exact price on the market then sets buy orders and get's 23 mille worth of minerals to build the drake and sell it for a 2 mille profit BUT his buy orders are lower then the sell order price wich made his 23 mille minerals to build the ship only cost him 21 mille. Overall profit 4 mille. You are mixing income with profit.profit is the extra value you get buy either selling much higher then the actuall worth or getting the items to build a lot lower then the actuall worth.The minerals you mined are income NOT profit.Only the 2 mille is profit since you sold the ship 2 mille more expensive then the build cost.we did however not include overall buildcost offcourse to make it more compehensable. If you call mining profit then so is ratting or missioning wich it offcourse isn't.
Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.06.20 10:21:00 - [102] Originally by: israus Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion Please tell me that your are trolling... Please.. No human being would consciously commit such a logical fallacy, if not to get a rise out of someone else.. Right? no i'm deffently looking to get a rise out of somebody else you in this case . but the logic is sound. if I mine enough minerals a day to keep a BPO in constant production i'm always going to make more money from that production then somebody buying minerals for production. i'll have done a damn sight more work for my money then the other guy but reap more rewards for it. Someone skipped the economy 101: Go look up the words "opportunity cost".
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.06.20 10:27:00 - [103] Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 20/06/2010 10:31:47 Originally by: israus Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion Please tell me that your are trolling... Please.. No human being would consciously commit such a logical fallacy, if not to get a rise out of someone else.. Right? no i'm deffently looking to get a rise out of somebody else you in this case . but the logic is sound. if I mine enough minerals a day to keep a BPO in constant production i'm always going to make more money from that production then somebody buying minerals for production. i'll have done a damn sight more work for my money then the other guy but reap more rewards for it. bolded part is fail. you will get more profit overall, but not more profit from production - your profit = (same profit from production) + (profit from mining) edit: I don't really understand flakeys' income vs profit distinction; ofc my statement above is not talking about any sort of economic profit - so income would probably be the better word; but why is there profit to be had in production (in a competitive market) but no profit in mining? (and how do you define the "actual worth"?)
Uppsy Daisy	Posted - 2010.06.20 14:55:00 - [104] Stay on topic. Let's not let this deteriorate in yet another the-minerals-I-mine-are-free/lessons-in-opportunity-cost thread. There are plenty of those already and the poor guy is trying to get some investors still.
israus	Posted - 2010.06.20 16:10:00 - [105] Originally by: flakeys You got 2 producers. One builds drakes from his own mined minerals total market sale worth 23 mille and sells for 25 mille.Profit on that item is 2 mille. Overall profit 2 mille. Other producer mines 23 mille worth of minerals and resells for that exact price on the market then sets buy orders and get's 23 mille worth of minerals to build the drake and sell it for a 2 mille profit BUT his buy orders are lower then the sell order price wich made his 23 mille minerals to build the ship only cost him 21 mille. Overall profit 4 mille. You are mixing income with profit.profit is the extra value you get buy either selling much higher then the actuall worth or getting the items to build a lot lower then the actuall worth.The minerals you mined are income NOT profit.Only the 2 mille is profit since you sold the ship 2 mille more expensive then the build cost.we did however not include overall buildcost offcourse to make it more compehensable. If you call mining profit then so is ratting or missioning wich it offcourse isn't. lol no, look at it this the the guy who mines his ore the process is as follows time - ore - drake - isk = profit were as the guy who buys the ore isk - ore - drake - isk = profit the first guys profit is always more because he's turning into isk where as the 2nd guy is turning isk it slightly more isk. you guys are so easy with this because you can't see the difference between something having value and something having a cost. ore at the first stage ie when somebody mines it has a value of either its market value or your time to mine it but no cost. what your trying to do is make out that the value of goods used to build something is the same as the cost of buy those goods and no its not the same.
israus	Posted - 2010.06.20 16:16:00 - [106] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton bolded part is fail. you will get more profit overall, but not more profit from production - your profit = (same profit from production) + (profit from mining) edit: I don't really understand flakeys' income vs profit distinction; ofc my statement above is not talking about any sort of economic profit - so income would probably be the better word; but why is there profit to be had in production (in a competitive market) but no profit in mining? (and how do you define the "actual worth"?) its not fail because it call comes down to what you sell your minerals to yourself for. i'd always sell the minerals to myself cheaper them the other guy buys them for so i'm always in more profit and thus i'm right :D
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster	Posted - 2010.06.21 10:27:00 - [107] Confirming that I have agreed to audit this venture, the report will be completed in 3-4 days!
Sugar Jugs Juggalicious	Posted - 2010.06.21 10:42:00 - [108] Originally by: Uppsy Daisy ...... There are plenty of those already and the poor guy is trying to get some investors still. Didn't realise this wasn't full already. How much remains? If its <1b I'll cover the rest, pending a favourable audit result. :)
israus	Posted - 2010.06.21 12:01:00 - [109] thought it was full pending audit.
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.06.24 16:08:00 - [110] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 24/06/2010 16:10:00 Now that you're getting an audit I'd like to reserve 500 mil, pending my evaluation of the results of the audit. In answer to the people who thought it was full: Nope, all the original reservations bailed when he decided not to get an audit a while back. So as of now he has no reservations (see his reservations list on page 1, 3rd post). Since then he's recanted and decided to get an audit (which Ji Sama is doing). But nobody new has put in reservations yet. Market Alerts Mailing List

Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.24 18:09:00 - [111] Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 24/06/2010 16:21:15 In answer to the people who thought it was full: Nope, all the original reservations bailed when he decided not to get an audit a while back. So as of now he has no reservations (see his reservations list on page 1, 3rd post). Since then he's recanted and decided to get an audit (which Ji Sama is doing). But nobody new has put in reservations yet. That's not entirely true. I accidentally backspaced the reservation list and haven't bothered to fill it back in for two reasons: 1) I never heard back from a few of the initial investors. 2) I'm waiting on the audit. It should prove, at the very least, that all my listed characters are accurate and that I can make money station trading. As such, the plan is this. When Ji Sama completes the audit, any initial investors (those who first posted a reservation) will have 48 hours to get back to me on whether or not they would like to honor their commitment. After 48 hours, I will open any remaining shares to anyone here who would like to invest. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.06.24 18:43:00 - [112] Quote: eah, I pretty much wipe my arse with 3 billion. I'm an evil business mastermind like the Penguin... except no, I'd prefer using my powers for the forces of good. And no one wants to be Danny DeVito. And I don't have 3 billion yet, which compared to some of you giants on this board, is what I would consider a paltry sum. In comparison. I'm here to burn you bro. That paragraph burns you down. This is a build up scam ladies and gents. Have a great day!!
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.24 18:46:00 - [113] Originally by: Jovialmadness Quote: eah, I pretty much wipe my arse with 3 billion. I'm an evil business mastermind like the Penguin... except no, I'd prefer using my powers for the forces of good. And no one wants to be Danny DeVito. And I don't have 3 billion yet, which compared to some of you giants on this board, is what I would consider a paltry sum. In comparison. I'm here to burn you bro. That paragraph burns you down. This is a build up scam ladies and gents. Have a great day!! I was joking. >_> I hate putting little [joke] tags on everything because some stuff should be obvious... but then again, I guess it's true sarcasm doesn't convey well onto the internet. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.06.24 18:49:00 - [114] Originally by: Cheque Please Originally by: Jovialmadness Quote: eah, I pretty much wipe my arse with 3 billion. I'm an evil business mastermind like the Penguin... except no, I'd prefer using my powers for the forces of good. And no one wants to be Danny DeVito. And I don't have 3 billion yet, which compared to some of you giants on this board, is what I would consider a paltry sum. In comparison. I'm here to burn you bro. That paragraph burns you down. This is a build up scam ladies and gents. Have a great day!! I was joking. >_> I hate putting little [joke] tags on everything because some stuff should be obvious... but then again, I guess it's true sarcasm doesn't convey well onto the internet. Oh well in that case you are 100% legit!!!!
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.24 18:51:00 - [115] Edited by: Cheque Please on 24/06/2010 18:51:44 Originally by: Jovialmadness Originally by: Cheque Please Originally by: Jovialmadness Quote: eah, I pretty much wipe my arse with 3 billion. I'm an evil business mastermind like the Penguin... except no, I'd prefer using my powers for the forces of good. And no one wants to be Danny DeVito. And I don't have 3 billion yet, which compared to some of you giants on this board, is what I would consider a paltry sum. In comparison. I'm here to burn you bro. That paragraph burns you down. This is a build up scam ladies and gents. Have a great day!! I was joking. >_> I hate putting little [joke] tags on everything because some stuff should be obvious... but then again, I guess it's true sarcasm doesn't convey well onto the internet. Oh well in that case you are 100% legit!!!! Would you care to explain your reasoning? Edit: Behind your misgiving. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.06.24 18:59:00 - [116] Well I just said you were legit... Oops you saw that didn't you. Anyway, it's simple bro. I've been playing for 6 years. I've seen alot. I've seen alot if posts and I've seen alot of different styles of social engineering. Simply put. You are trying to hard. You are too funny and you try to save too much time. Final thought? You will make this and 1-2 more bonds suceed and take off with a rather large take shortly there after. Just a bit of advice..u need to make the bonds sound as boringly professional as possible to atleast confuse us or make us question. In the end though you will give yourself away with a huge bond offering in the future I'm wagering,
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.24 19:12:00 - [117] Originally by: Jovialmadness Well I just said you were legit... Oops you saw that didn't you. Anyway, it's simple bro. I've been playing for 6 years. I've seen alot. I've seen alot if posts and I've seen alot of different styles of social engineering. Simply put. You are trying to hard. You are too funny and you try to save too much time. Final thought? You will make this and 1-2 more bonds suceed and take off with a rather large take shortly there after. Just a bit of advice..u need to make the bonds sound as boringly professional as possible to atleast confuse us or make us question. In the end though you will give yourself away with a huge bond offering in the future I'm wagering, Heh, I gotta admit that's rather funny advice. "Make it sound as boring and professional to confuse us". Oh well. I understand where you're coming from as it does seem to happen way too much on these forums. Though I can't speak for anybody in specific, I have the feeling most of the build up scams, IMO, are just someone getting bored with the game. Quote: You will make this and 1-2 more bonds suceed and take off with a rather large take shortly there after Ride the wave, brah. --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.06.24 19:55:00 - [118] Hehe na thanks bro. I pop in every blue moon to just stir s*** up on occasion. Isk isn't exactly anything I need anymore well gl on your bond. Convo or mail me later on down the road IF I turn out right.
Synbiossa Dirt-Nap Ship Yards Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.06.24 22:53:00 - [119] Edited by: Synbiossa on 24/06/2010 22:52:47 Confirming that I am still interested in my 10 shares for 500m providing a proper audit.
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.06.25 13:04:00 - [120] Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 24/06/2010 16:21:15 Now that you're getting an audit I'd like to reserve 500 mil, pending my evaluation of the results of the audit. Yes, I'm fully aware this is half what I was willing to spend before. That's the price you pay for waffling. I think the risk is higher now than when you waffled on getting an audit. In answer to the people who thought it was full: Nope, all the original reservations bailed when he decided not to get an audit a while back. So as of now he has no reservations (see his reservations list on page 1, 3rd post). Since then he's recanted and decided to get an audit (which Ji Sama is doing). But nobody new has put in reservations yet. Ya know... nevermind. I think I'll keep my money and invest it elsewhere. Market Alerts Mailing List

flakeys DRAMA Inc	Posted - 2010.06.25 13:42:00 - [121] Originally by: Taram Caldar Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 24/06/2010 16:21:15 Now that you're getting an audit I'd like to reserve 500 mil, pending my evaluation of the results of the audit. Yes, I'm fully aware this is half what I was willing to spend before. That's the price you pay for waffling. I think the risk is higher now than when you waffled on getting an audit. In answer to the people who thought it was full: Nope, all the original reservations bailed when he decided not to get an audit a while back. So as of now he has no reservations (see his reservations list on page 1, 3rd post). Since then he's recanted and decided to get an audit (which Ji Sama is doing). But nobody new has put in reservations yet. Ya know... nevermind. I think I'll keep my money and invest it elsewhere. Make up your mind :)
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.06.25 16:38:00 - [122] Originally by: flakeys Originally by: Taram Caldar Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 24/06/2010 16:21:15 Now that you're getting an audit I'd like to reserve 500 mil, pending my evaluation of the results of the audit. Yes, I'm fully aware this is half what I was willing to spend before. That's the price you pay for waffling. I think the risk is higher now than when you waffled on getting an audit. In answer to the people who thought it was full: Nope, all the original reservations bailed when he decided not to get an audit a while back. So as of now he has no reservations (see his reservations list on page 1, 3rd post). Since then he's recanted and decided to get an audit (which Ji Sama is doing). But nobody new has put in reservations yet. Ya know... nevermind. I think I'll keep my money and invest it elsewhere. Make up your mind :) I have a mind? :) Market Alerts Mailing List
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster	Posted - 2010.06.25 18:17:00 - [123] I have been delayed by extensive downtime and someone else trying to pull the data in the API key, therefore I have not been able to get a satisfactory data pull in all the 3rd party tools I use! I have send the Client an offer, and we will await his response.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.26 18:48:00 - [124] Hey gang, Some of you are wiser and more experienced than me, so I'd like some advice. Here's your chance to play armchair bond manager. Ji Sama is headed off on vacation which means he is unable to complete his audit. That leaves me (as I see it) with 4 available options: 1) Wait the week, the 2 weeks, the month, or however long it will be until Ji Sama returns to EVE, and then see if he'd still like to audit me as a breath of fresh air after all those rigorous hours in the jacuzzi and sun! 2) Start pestering more auditors AGAIN. 3) Proceed without an audit. Studies show this to be an unpopular choice on the MD forums. 4) Throw in the towel. I hate giving up on something once I've started, but I may just have to do that if this bond isn't going anywhere. My greatest fear of getting stuck in an "audit pending" morass is slowly coming true. So what should I do? You tell me. I don't really want to say farewell to MD as we've just met! I know less than half of you half as well as you deserve, and... well, okay, let's be honest. I ***in' hate the other half you already. I'm considering telling some of you naysayers to take your money and shove it... into big, safe investment opportunities with trustworthy managers. Like EBank. ba dum csh* --- Real-Life Meeting with Chribba
Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.06.26 19:21:00 - [125] Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 26/06/2010 19:21:04 Originally by: Cheque Please Hey gang, Some of you are wiser and more experienced than me, so I'd like some advice. Here's your chance to play armchair bond manager. Ji Sama is headed off on vacation which means he is unable to complete his audit. That leaves me (as I see it) with 4 available options: 1) Wait the week, the 2 weeks, the month, or however long it will be until Ji Sama returns to EVE, and then see if he'd still like to audit me as a breath of fresh air after all those rigorous hours in the jacuzzi and sun! 2) Start pestering more auditors AGAIN. 3) Proceed without an audit. Studies show this to be an unpopular choice on the MD forums. 4) Throw in the towel. I hate giving up on something once I've started, but I may just have to do that if this bond isn't going anywhere. My greatest fear of getting stuck in an "audit pending" morass is slowly coming true. So what should I do? You tell me. I don't really want to say farewell to MD as we've just met! I know less than half of you half as well as you deserve, and... well, okay, let's be honest. I ***in' hate the other half you already. I'm considering telling some of you naysayers to take your money and shove it... into big, safe investment opportunities with trustworthy managers. Like EBank. ba dum csh* 4) No point in waiting this long for a measly 3B. As I made abundantly clear in many a post, it's ten times faster and easier to just go out and earn 3B than to try and pry it loose in here. No need to leave the MD though, you got a shiny in-game character icon now and whatnot! Just make a lot of isk yourself and try again when you need some real isk, to the tune of 100B or more. That's the only time an audit would be needed and also the only time when an audit will not be required anymore since you can only pull it off if you are a regular in the first place. Q.E.D. audits are overrated and useless for their purpose. It only serves to engage in corporate role playing. You might want to try and go ahead with it anyway, if it works without the audit, which it should since did try to get one, then voila instant profit. If it doesn't w/e no hair of your back! <3 Tangents.
RAW23	Posted - 2010.06.26 19:26:00 - [126] Originally by: Cheque Please 2) Start pestering more auditors AGAIN. This one.
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2010.06.27 20:13:00 - [127] Originally by: Cheque Please That leaves me (as I see it) with 4 available options: 1) Wait the week, the 2 weeks, the month, or however long it will be until Ji Sama returns to EVE, and then see if he'd still like to audit me as a breath of fresh air after all those rigorous hours in the jacuzzi and sun! 2) Start pestering more auditors AGAIN. 3) Proceed without an audit. Studies show this to be an unpopular choice on the MD forums. 4) Throw in the towel. shrug I find myself in a very similar situation, and have decided it's better to just go it alone; having spent a rather fruitless couple of weeks trying to arrange an audit, I get the impression that the convenience of the 'shortcut' offered by public funding in no way compensates for the frustrations of trying to get hold of auditors.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.28 07:13:00 - [128] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 28/06/2010 07:16:43 I am sorry, months of anti-auditor campaign delivered its fruits, the regular turnover that would grant you an affordable "fresh" guy has been broken. I am still active, but my September 0.0 commitments demand I grind so many billions in the next 2 months that with my current speed at earning money my cost of opportunity went to about 200M per audit. If you can convince the auditors fund to help you, maybe we can get a deal, otherwise I have to stick to my tight schedule. Edit: I have also to ask my current Customer about confirming his performance audit, if he desires so I might need a 1-2 days before I am free. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.28 09:15:00 - [129] Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion 4) No point in waiting this long for a measly 3B. As I made abundantly clear in many a post, it's ten times faster and easier to just go out and earn 3B than to try and pry it loose in here. No need to leave the MD though, you got a shiny in-game character icon now and whatnot! Just make a lot of isk yourself and try again when you need some real isk, to the tune of 100B or more. You mention abandoning this bond to later come back for a sum of money that's actually significant (you cited 100b as an example). Here's my dilemma with that! What looks more suspicious, the long-term poster asking for a clean 100b for his first bond ever, or the supposedly rich, still unknown guy asking for 3b to "build rep"? Both could be 'obvious' invested scams, or they could very well be 100% legit. So which do I choose? One requires sacrificing a piece of your soul arguing over mineral baskets (or, alternatively, **ing at every opportunity in threads like "How much isk do u make?"). The other path takes a lot of tedious 'prying' for funds -- as you put it. When I first drafted this bond 3 weeks ago, I had around 700m. Now I estimate myself around 6b and don't really 'need' the 3b anymore. I've made plenty enough investing out of my own pocket as any audit would prove. I knew I could always successfully use my own money to trade, or I would never have offered this bond in the first place with a 12% interest rate. I simply wanted a way to expand faster, and while that expansion has come round on its own, if this bond had filled even as short a time ago as 10 days, I could have made at least 3b more than I had. Missed opportunity, that. So while 3b is still a SIGNIFICANT amount of liquid capital, it's clear to me that I will continue to do just fine without any support from MD. However, I recognize that 3b, or 10b, or 20b, and so on in increasing amounts would open the door to many possibilities more fun than playing .01 ISK warfare. Right now I still run dry dancing with about 30 big margin trade orders. I suppose, if I stick with it, I'd run this bond for 3b to open future opportunities. It would show that I indeed CAN station trade (not that it's really all that hard). I'd also show that I CAN pay out people, and pay them out on time. And finally, the last reason I guess is a bit selfish, but I don't want to abandon the bond. Just think: all the time spent in front of the mirror dreaming up my witty retorts and beautiful metaphors. And all those precious tears. The one-line scam accusations got to me at night, man. Anyway, even after all that rambling, I'm sure someone will still accuse me of being a build-up scam and I guess there's really no way to prove otherwise! You'll have to depend on your own judgments about my character. So here's a heartfelt quote from a fellow former bond manager called Riethe that beautifully sums me up my own motives quite well: Originally by: Riethe I play EVE to get away from the responsibilities of day to day life. Running my trading bond is something that brings me a lot of joy in the game. If I were to simply walk with investors money, I'd ruin the credibility I've built up over time, and take away something very important to me. I'd rather earn an honest buck through my trade than scam my investors. Damn it, Varo. This flippancy... I can't help myself. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE** RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.28 09:20:00 - [130] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 28/06/2010 07:16:43 If you can convince the auditors fund to help you, maybe we can get a deal, otherwise I have to stick to my tight schedule. Vaerah, are you trying to recruit me as a grunt by proxy in your battle with the MD audit fund? --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba

RAW23	Posted - 2010.06.28 09:49:00 - [131] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 28/06/2010 07:16:43 I am sorry, months of anti-auditor campaign delivered its fruits, the regular turnover that would grant you an affordable "fresh" guy has been broken. What anti-auditor campaign? As far as I can see the problem is that a) there haven't been many offers in the last three months requiring audits, providing less "job recruitment" publicity, and b) the last batch of auditors have, on the whole, moved on to bigger and better things. All that is needed is a recruitment drive to get some fresh blood interested.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.28 10:01:00 - [132] Originally by: RAW23 What anti-auditor campaign? As far as I can see the problem is that a) there haven't been many offers in the last three months requiring audits, providing less "job recruitment" publicity, and b) the last batch of auditors have, on the whole, moved on to bigger and better things. All that is needed is a recruitment drive to get some fresh blood interested. You know what? You're right. There aren't enough auditors. Us fresh blood need to step up to the challenge. In fact, I volunteer myself as an auditor. And to top it all off, I'll start right away with, say... this bond? Everyone okay with that? --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
RAW23	Posted - 2010.06.28 10:10:00 - [133] Originally by: Cheque Please Originally by: RAW23 What anti-auditor campaign? As far as I can see the problem is that a) there haven't been many offers in the last three months requiring audits, providing less "job recruitment" publicity, and b) the last batch of auditors have, on the whole, moved on to bigger and better things. All that is needed is a recruitment drive to get some fresh blood interested. You know what? You're right. There aren't enough auditors. Us fresh blood need to step up to the challenge. In fact, I volunteer myself as an auditor. And to top it all off, I'll start right away with, say... this bond? Everyone okay with that? You have an offer from VV. I would leap on that one if I were you. But if you are interested in getting into auditing you could ask her if she could walk you through the processes as she does it.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.28 11:56:00 - [134] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 28/06/2010 12:01:23 Quote: Vaerah, are you trying to recruit me as a grunt by proxy in your battle with the MD audit fund? No, 2 of the 3 data I needed off that thread were given. No #2, the MD fund IS useful, I only really contest the fact it's not the final solution, it's an interim but it's going to become a placeholder for the solution instead. I for one would prefer to have auditors back and a new generation of them being very suited for those small offerings today get deserted. By patching the problem, there's less desire for new guys and the virtuous cycle of turnover won't easily start again. Quote: What anti-auditor campaign? About around the time Riethe returned to play (edit: I use the name as temporal reference, not implying he was behind it), a long series of threads appeared repeatedly dissing auditors as "fake safety" and lots of similar indirect nips at their role. It's all written to read. From participating in forums / news since Usenet I know hugely well how slow and subliminal social engineering can work in smallish communities. When done well, it's like one of those poisons that leave no traces. @About auditing yourself, you need an order of magnitude more of patience to survive more than 3 months. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
RAW23	Posted - 2010.06.28 12:00:00 - [135] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: What anti-auditor campaign? About around the time Riethe returned to play, a long series of threads appeared repeatedly dissing auditors as "fake safety" and lots of similar indirect nips at their role. It's all written to read. From participating in forums / news since Usenet I know hugely well how slow and subliminal social engineering can work in smallish communities. When done well, it's like one of those poisons that leave no traces. I remember the threads but they don't appear to have done anything to dent investor demands for audit (witness this thread). I also don't think that they caused the lack f offerings that we have had recently. I certainly agree about the power of such slow-burning campaigns but, in this case, the effect seems to have been negligible.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.28 12:06:00 - [136] Raw, it was aimed at discouraging perspective new wannabe auditors at "trying the job", not at discouraging investors. Investors have NO weapon other audits and little else, they will keep demanding their money to be preserved and audits to be done, because there's simply nothing better to replace them. On the other side, being constantly winked at as "rep farmer", "illuding people of safety", "bloodsucker feeding on others investments" and basically of parasitism, this makes the job much less appetible, as its main reward was not money already but a feeling of doing something wanted / useful for the community. Break that and you break new people's will. This is my personal and fully debatable feeling ofc. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.06.28 19:23:00 - [137] Well to answer that question on whether you should go for the 3 bil or 100 bil I think it's safe to say if you go for the 100 bil AND pay back your investors you won't need to worry about rep/audits/people like me 100 bil honestly is not alot to surprisingly quite a few that frequent round' here. It is, however, enough to give insta rep if you could a. Get it and b. Actually pay it back.
Roguehalo Caldari Resonance Laboratories	Posted - 2010.06.28 22:08:00 - [138] Sounds to me like Cheque Please = Riethe Ya gotta laugh
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.06.29 02:46:00 - [139] Originally by: Roguehalo Sounds to me like Cheque Please = Riethe Ya gotta laugh Well, yes... I'd hope I sounded like him considering I directly quoted! --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.07.03 00:01:00 - [140] Despite the false start and a certain number of screwups, the OP kept trying to get somewhat back in track. He / she did not get MD Audit fund support as well, but this did not stop him / her from keeping pestering me in order to get an audit made 100% off his / her pockets. Now, depending on the points of view, this can be seen as attempt to steer the offer to the "right" side or as attempt to get some "stamp of approval" discounting the cost (including a step up strategy where audit would be seen as "starter legitimacy injection"). While a well constructed scam cannot be detected (the OP seems to lack of experience but not of the wits potential), I am going to produce an audit for this Investee, even just to try and give her / him a chance to prove her / himself past the "pending audit" showstopper. I'll also try and produce something less colorful but with more substance aka with some numbers to see if she / he's grossly bluffing or not. I still find personally discouraging the fact that not a single soul is stepping up to "replace" the elder and worn out auditors, these smallish investments are the perfect opportunities to learn the ropes. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz

Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.07.03 00:20:00 - [141] I dunno I've seen a few young auditors step up. Realistically it takes a certain type of person to even want to be an auditor. Then that person has to have the spare time to be an auditor. I'm sure there are plenty of people in MD who could audit, probably even me, but the desire has to be there and, more importantly, the spare time has to be there. Even if I wanted to be an auditor I wouldn't have the time to do it. Running my own corp, and now an alliance, I just haven't had and, currently, don't have the idle cycles it requires to do it. I'm sure a lot of the other folks who could audit are in the same boat. Market Alerts Mailing List
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.07.07 07:14:00 - [142] Audit report for Cheque Please business This is Vaerah Vahroka's analysis as of 2010-07-06 18:00 EvE Time. Tools used EvEMon jEveAssets EMMA EvEMeep EvE Asset Manager EvE Income Analyzer Eve Trader - New release by Femaref Forewords Cheque Please is an high sec trader and any sec explorer. Cheque Please or - to be more precise - his highest SP character Azenn - started in 2007 an played intermittently. As of now, Cheque Please refocused on trading on his main characters (others seem unused) with some success. Lack of capital (at the time of the offer launch) pushed the Investee into asking for public funding. Since not all the readers are interested in a fully featured study, a short version of the audit has been provided. Short version Considerations The Investee proposes a bond with high interests, mostly aimed at raising capital to support his trading characters available orders slots. The Investee business strategy is currently based on pure station trading of a targetted group of goods. Due to the trading strategy, the Investee has a somewhat diversified yet focused inventory, he specialized in some categories of items. Green flag: the Auditor has reviewed the investee's skills and current assets. They look in line to the claims and compatible with the trading profession. Green flag: the Investee arranged an audit, not without difficulties and rough bumps. Red flag: the Investee is not providing any collateral. There are two PLEXes but they don't constitute but a sort of verbal promise of refund in case of default. Red flag: the Investee tried and used an informal style to propose his offer. While this solution kind of adds some "verve" over the usual "formally-correct-somewhat-boring" offer, it has several less than convincing points. In example, the Investee between a joke and the next, pictures the investment risk as low (it's not), the risk of scam as unlikely (unproven), the collateralization as "sort of" (it's not). Red flag: no exit strategy has been provided in case of physical incapacitation at completing the bond ("hit by a bus"). Green flag: the Investee's trading strategy precludes important inventory losses due to suicide ganks. Even in the past time, the losses have been limited to some small T1 ships in 0.0 and wormholes. Green flag: the Investee proved to be able to raise his NAV from 2.5 to 10B in a quite short amount of weeks. The request is for a very manageable amount compared to that. Conclusions Due to the lack of collateral and exit strategy and the Investee's profession, the Auditor classifies this investment as very high risk. The Investee seems competent (skills wise and player wise) enough to deliver on his statements, his business is in a growth phase since he returned back to play EvE. No fundamental flaw has been found in his (or his alts) past recorded deaths. The claims about past activities seem confirmed by the records. Most losses happened in low sec, 0.0 PvP and WHs and don't involve traded goods. Basically, the Investee looks like with the ability to successfully honor the bond. Notice how an audit can only evaluate the ability or potential of an Investee to succesfully honor a bond. The Auditor suggests the Investors NOT to invest their full capital on this venture but to offer what they could eventually afford to lose. The most realistic risk of defaults are, in decreasing order of probability: scam and a vertical drop of profitability in the chosen items basket.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.07.07 07:18:00 - [143] Full version Generalities Main trading characters for this proposal are Cheque Please and another (not disclosing which one), located on two accounts. The Investee got other alts with low SP, they are trained for general combat and exploration. The main character is a June 2007 one. Since the Investee quit and returned to EvE several times, said character only got about 6.1M SP. The trading characters have different amount of skills, the most developed one has trained up to Wholesale III and Corporation Contracting to level II. The characters posted about 110 times on the forums, about random and trading topics, with a focus on this investment. The Investee indicated his alts names in the replies following the prospectus. Business Plan Analysis The plan is about station trading a certain basket of items the Investee has determined to be (sometimes impressively) profitable. The top sold item category ranks 29% profit, the second 21%. Other items have margins from 3% to 17%. There are also few items netting a negative of up to 14% but their volume is negligible compared to the turnover (note: the actual percentage varies depending on the software used, since they group items in slightly different ways). This would confirm the Investee claims about his sufficient profitability, or at least a capability to create profit. Since some of the profitable items are quite expensive, an increase in capital could result in another tangible worth increase. Due to lack of collateral and exit strategy, the Auditor has to classify this business as very high risk, the potential for profit is definitely there though. Collateral and exit strategy The Investee is not going to offer any collateral. There is sort of exit strategy involving PLEXes but Investors have to be aware that it's a statement of good will, nothing is going to enforce the actual execution in case it's needed. No RL "hit by a bus" strategy is present. Business Plan Analysis The Investee did not send the Auditor a short information about his business but its definitely possible to evaluate it due to its scope. The plan is about targetted items basket station trading. The Investee apparently spends a good amount of time at trading, mostly at the week end. The best sold item category ranks an average of above 29% profit, others tend to rank 10-17%, some sell at a loss. The following graph shows the top profitable items (by single item markup, not category). Despite the sensible amounts involved, the margins are easily 240% of the purchases or above. Now, not all these items are not going to last with such level of profitability but these are not the only traded categories. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Follows a graph about the last 30 days movements: Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. The graph is partially incomplete because of API limitations, the Auditor could not track records further back in the past. These are the top 15 profitable items Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Collateral and exit strategy No collateral has been provided except for a statement about using PLEXes in case the business underperforms. No "hit by a bus" exit strategy has been suggested as well.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.07.07 07:29:00 - [144] Net Asset Value and other balance considerations The estimated net worth of all liabilities, solid & liquid assets at the date of this audit is about 10.225B ISK. Please notice how due to the lack of API support for contracts, a turnover of up to some hundreds of millions a month has been skipped. The transactions are made by the trade characters. Assets across all of the characters and corporations are estimated to be worth 7.066B. The Investee also got some few additional BPs frozen in research, not included in this estimate. Assets and balance Balance Wallet balance: 2.55B Market sell-orders: 3.92B (this value is skipped in the total since they are included in the assets evaluation below). Market escrow: 609M Contracts: 0M Investments: 0M Total: 3.159B Assets POS: 0M Fleet / ships: 16M (unfitted) Modules: 74M Misc. solid assets; minerals, salvage, ice and trade goods etc.: 5M Blueprint copies and originals: 1.8M Other: About 6.97B, 5.95B of which are Investee's traded inventory Ordered assets under construction: 0M Total: 7.066B --------------------------------------- Estimated grand total: 10.225 Billion ISK Business impressions The business is as follows: the Investee buys some items determined to be expecially profitable and resells them at a markup in the same station. Since some of the chosen items are expensive, the Investee is issuing a bond to support his expansion. The business, as long as the Investee keeps working like in the past 4 weeks, should earn more than enough to pay the Investors interests back. Green flag: the Investee sent the Auditor some additional information even before it got asked. Red flag: the Investee does not offer collateral. Green flag: the Investee does not need to move his inventory. Green flag: the Investee is introduced in the trading business already and shows a good performance. Risks The largest risks of failure, in decreasing order, involve: scam and loss of value in some expensive items in the Investee stock. The lack of forcibly liquidable collateral and exit strategy would result in complete loss of Investors capital in case of unforeseen incidents. Considerations Please refer to the audit's short version for general considerations about the Investee. Conclusions Please refer to the audit's short version for the conclusions about the Investee. Disclaimers Due to stringent EvE API limitations, although the information provided to you on this document is obtained or compiled from sources believed to be reliable, Vahrokh Consulting cannot and does not guarantee the accuracy, validity, timeliness, or completeness of any information or data made available to you for any particular purpose. Neither the information nor any opinion contained in this document constitutes a solicitation or offer by Vahrokh Consulting or its affiliates to buy or sell any securities, assets or services.
Ophias	Posted - 2010.07.07 11:31:00 - [145] I'm willing to invest 500 million still. Well done on getting the audit. And thanks to the auditor.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.07.07 16:14:00 - [146] Thanks VV; thanks Ophias. If anyone has any questions regarding the audit, please feel free to ask. Couple of things because it's been so long (a month!): - I still haven't heard anything from a few initial investors. If you would like to honor your reservation, let me know please. After 48 hours, I'll assume a no. - If anyone else would like to reserve a spot now in case the aboev people drop out, let me know please. - Right now I believe there's 1 bil up for grabs. Sugar Jugs, you mentioned you might want to cover it. Is that still the case? Thanks, looking forward to finally getting this off the ground, delays and all. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Marbo Slyder	Posted - 2010.07.07 16:32:00 - [147] yeah, I'll stand by my original 500mil offer worth paying to keep this show in production!
Carlos Det	Posted - 2010.07.07 17:29:00 - [148] ill back you up with 500 mil now that the audit is done
Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.07.07 19:07:00 - [149] Just poppin in to say: Good work on getting the audit done. Now for some negativity: The audit is as expected useless. Not that VV did a poor job, but... it doesn't prove anything, it doesn't mean anything. Even the result is : high risk, but people won't even read through all of the audit because they only care that a token audit has been performed and will take anything on face value.... It's like the ****ed line the Dutch banks now have to place in their adds : "Borrowing money, costs money!" No Sherlock!! I mean, does anyone seriously think this makes you Cheque Please less likely (or more of course) to be a scammer? Seriously? Are people that naive? What does an audit assert: The past and some dry bone facts. It can only show whether or not the auditee has traded in the past and for his own bottom line** What does it completely miss: Intent. What is important to a would-be investor, while taking into account that every dumbass can make a killing station trading: Intent. Sorry for continuously attempting to derail your thread Check, but think of it as a free bump please.
Bryg Philomena Don't Taze Me Bro	Posted - 2010.07.07 19:30:00 - [150] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I still find personally discouraging the fact that not a single soul is stepping up to "replace" the elder and worn out auditors, these smallish investments are the perfect opportunities to learn the ropes. I asked probably around a year ago what was involved in an audit and was basically flamed out. I should look again, but no one trusts me anyway :P Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars??? Your signature

Zamestian Han	Posted - 2010.07.07 19:47:00 - [151] Adding plexes to your game time may reduce the risk and i may think to invest.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.07.08 00:01:00 - [152] Quote: What does an audit assert: The past and some dry bone facts. It can only show whether or not the auditee has traded in the past and for his own bottom line What does it completely miss: Intent. What is important to a would-be investor, while taking into account that every dumbass can make a killing station trading: Intent. You are quite right. An audit won't put some "safety seal of approval" on anyone. In fact, RL audits don't do that as well, yet they are still made. What a positive outcome audit does is the following: - shows the Investee has the skills to succesfully deliver on the investment. At the same time, it shows the Investee was being honest in his capability statements. - a performance check (part of this audit) shows the Investee can succeed. IE he is not some bad runt, unable to achieve profit enough to deliver the stated interests. - shows the Investee is not a fool losing billions of stock in sillly suicide ganks - shows the Investee business plan is correct, shows if his POS is properly defended and / or a merc protection contract has been setup - shows the Investee got the assets he declared he got, the collateral he declared he got and so on - shows the Investee did (and how much) research / production in the past and thus is competent to potentially deliver on a research / production bond / IPO Basically, true intent cannot be proved, neither in EvE nor in RL. Nothing can prevent a RL manager from going mad and set the IPO factory on fire, thrash the whole capital or just kill himself. An audit is more information than no audit, most Investors value knowledge about the Investee passing basic viability / past performance record checks more than knowing nothing at all. If you have got more doubts or questions I'd suggest to leave this topic intact and resort to in game contact or another thread (it'd be hardly the first on this topic). Quote: I asked probably around a year ago what was involved in an audit and was basically flamed out. I should look again, but no one trusts me anyway Take the following as friendly advice: 1) You need lots of flame suits, patience, unstoppable will to go ahead despite fierce opposition. If you don't have insane amounts of both, you are not cut for auditing. 2) Trust is earned. It does not rain in cloudy days, you need to severely dirty your hands in things in order to show you are worth it. None "gives" you trust, none waits for you. You are in charge. You build yourself. You are in EvE. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.07.08 02:45:00 - [153] Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion Now for some negativity: The audit is as expected useless. I mean, does anyone seriously think this makes you Cheque Please less likely (or more of course) to be a scammer? Seriously? Are people that naive? What does an audit assert: The past and some dry bone facts. It can only show whether or not the auditee has traded in the past and for his own bottom line What does it completely miss: Intent. What is important to a would-be investor, while taking into account that every dumbass can make a killing station trading: Intent. I have always maintained that it doesn't take a business genius to be able to station trade successfully in EVE (hence my glib explanation of the process in the initial offer). However, I do enjoy excel warfare for some goofy reason or another. If you think the audit is useless because it cannot account for intent, then that's fine; it's been proven before to be true. However, what the audit does show is this: I have the ability to go from ~1bil to ~10bil in a month all on my own accord. Now, I HATE to sound like I'm tooting my own horn, but would I really still be here desperately trying to scam people out of 3bil when I could have spared myself the time and the energy just earning it myself casually in 10 days? I don't need the 3bil to fund my ship losses. I don't even have any PVP characters with skills greater than 2.5mil. I'm just doing it, god forbid, for fun! --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Ephenos	Posted - 2010.07.08 02:50:00 - [154] I'll buyup any left over shares. How much is left ?
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.07.08 03:47:00 - [155] Edited by: Cheque Please on 08/07/2010 03:47:02 Originally by: Ephenos I'll buyup any left over shares. How much is left ? 800m - the reservation list is updated --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
FilterRelease	Posted - 2010.07.08 07:07:00 - [156] I would like to purchase 1 share
Ephenos	Posted - 2010.07.08 08:59:00 - [157] Originally by: Ephenos I'll buyup any left over shares. How much is left ? If it wasn't obvious in my post I said I'd reserve the last 16 shars. Thanks.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.07.08 14:11:00 - [158] Edited by: Cheque Please on 08/07/2010 14:16:26 Originally by: Ephenos Originally by: Ephenos I'll buyup any left over shares. How much is left ? If it wasn't obvious in my post I said I'd reserve the last 16 shars. Thanks. Okay Ephenos, I added you to the list of investors. I probably won't ever hear back from the silent few that have never responded to me. If they do msg me sometime between now and tomorrow, I'll let you decide if you want a refund or if you want to just stay in with the bond a bit overbudget. I'm not worried about covering the added maximum of 30 something million in interest. Filter, I went ahead and added you too since your request is small enough. With you two added, the bond is full up. To all investors: please send me the ISK if you haven't already. Once everyone transfers me their respective stake, I will dish out the shares and the bond will begin. Looking forward to it. Expect another post within 24 hours. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Xearal Minmatar SOL Industries Kamikaze Project	Posted - 2010.07.08 17:18:00 - [159] Money has been sent yesterday, when the assets I had tied up in a few things liquidated faster than expected. <a href="https://eve-search.com/externalLink.asp?l=http%3A%2F%2Frumandmonkey%2Ecom%2Fwidgets%2Ftoys%2Ftestgen%2F6199%2F"><img src="http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/9/9/6199/25764.jpg" title="Industrialist with teeth" alt="Industrialist with teeth" border="0"
Marbo Slyder	Posted - 2010.07.08 17:31:00 - [160] 500 mil sent

Carlos Det	Posted - 2010.07.08 17:55:00 - [161] isk sent
FilterRelease	Posted - 2010.07.08 21:04:00 - [162] 50 mill sent
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.07.09 00:30:00 - [163] Good luck with your bond :) Market Alerts Mailing List
Synbiossa Dirt-Nap Ship Yards Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.07.09 04:27:00 - [164] Isk sent. Waiting confirmation.
Ophias	Posted - 2010.07.09 12:38:00 - [165] Edited by: Ophias on 09/07/2010 12:39:09
FilterRelease	Posted - 2010.07.10 20:18:00 - [166] so whats going on with this?
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.07.10 21:15:00 - [167] Edited by: Cheque Please on 10/07/2010 21:16:15 Originally by: FilterRelease so whats going on with this? Giving Ephenos until Sunday night. You never know, maybe he's a chill dude and has been out clubbing since Friday morning. Everyone else is confirmed sent. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Jezebel Baily	Posted - 2010.07.11 01:59:00 - [168] Message sent in game. Good luck in your venture.
JtotheROC	Posted - 2010.07.11 03:49:00 - [169] Interested in the Bond, a few shares to start and see how it goes. Sending a message in game.
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.07.12 15:07:00 - [170] All paid-for shares have been allocated. I am officially launching the bond today. First divident payout will be in one month, August 12, 2010. Anyone who hasn't sent me their isk yet, please send it asap and I will forward you your shares. Thanks --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba

JtotheROC	Posted - 2010.07.12 16:18:00 - [171] Bought 4 shares, plz confirm
Marbo Slyder	Posted - 2010.07.13 09:42:00 - [172] confirming receipt of 10 HLM shares good luck fella...so far so good!
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.07.14 12:16:00 - [173] There are still 12 shares (600m) available. First person who sends me the money can have them. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.07.15 21:32:00 - [174] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 15/07/2010 21:33:12 Edited by: Taram Caldar on 15/07/2010 21:32:31 Sent an alert out to the Market Alert's Mailing List (see sig for details) to let folks know you have 600 bonds left. Good luck. oops... just realized it's 600 mil, not 600 bonds... owell ;) Market Alerts Mailing List
Zilkin Humans from Earth Looney Toons.	Posted - 2010.07.15 21:44:00 - [175] is this still open if so i would like to buy 2 shares @50 mill each please let me know either buy evemail or new post
Kadye Skirata	Posted - 2010.07.16 00:54:00 - [176] Hey, just here to bump a friend, he has proven exceedingly trustworthy, 3rd partying the sale of a wh worth more than 3/4 of a bill. :D 2 shares reserved. :D
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.07.17 13:14:00 - [177] Edited by: Cheque Please on 17/07/2010 13:17:29 Edited by: Cheque Please on 17/07/2010 13:15:20 Hmm, I probably should have mentioned Marbo filled the 600m vacancy. Nevertheless, if you sent me isk I added you to the bond, thanks. And Kadye, sorry but at this point I am past the reservation stage considering I am theoretically already paying interest on your money and I don't even have it. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
JtotheROC	Posted - 2010.07.28 19:25:00 - [178] Is a dividend due soon? BTW whats all that about creating 10000 shares. Are you doing a follow-up?
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.07.28 21:05:00 - [179] Originally by: JtotheROC Is a dividend due soon? BTW whats all that about creating 10000 shares. Are you doing a follow-up? First dividend is 8/12/2010. About the shares: I am soon going to launch a 500b expansion. Stay tuned. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Cista2 Hydra Investment Fund	Posted - 2010.07.28 21:17:00 - [180] Originally by: Cheque Please About the shares: I am soon going to launch a 500b expansion. Stay tuned. Now that's what I call an expansion. ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom for traders / Hydra Investment Fund

Carlos Det	Posted - 2010.07.29 02:05:00 - [181] do we get first pick and bid rights on this expansion ? for being your initial investors ?
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.07.31 05:39:00 - [182] Originally by: Carlos Det do we get first pick and bid rights on this expansion ? for being your initial investors ? I will be doing either a 15b or 20b expansion sometime in the future, not 500b. I was joking about that. Sure, my initial investors can have first rights. Hugs and kisses and all that for sticking with me when the ship was taking water. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Synbiossa Dirt-Nap Ship Yards Dirt Nap Squad.	Posted - 2010.08.13 21:00:00 - [183] Confirming I received my first payment.
Marbo Slyder	Posted - 2010.08.13 21:22:00 - [184] ooo I did too!! :)
Jovan Geldon	Posted - 2010.08.16 19:53:00 - [185] Can you put me on the waiting list for 150 mill worth of any future expansion please? Assuming there's any left after the initial lot have had their fill :P
JtotheROC	Posted - 2010.08.16 20:30:00 - [186] Received my first payment as well, great stuff.
Carlos Det	Posted - 2010.08.17 02:09:00 - [187] received interest payment from my investment
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.08.17 23:42:00 - [188] Originally by: Jovan Geldon Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 17/08/2010 00:09:59 Can you put me on the waiting list for 150 mills worth of any future expansion please? Assuming there's any left after the initial lot have had their fill Hey, I wasn't initially going to do an expansion, but as I could use the isk atm (for reasons detailed in the other thread) here's your chance: Expansion Regardless, this first bond (the 3b one) will still be paid off in full on Sept. 13th. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Jovan Geldon	Posted - 2010.08.18 01:35:00 - [189] Originally by: Cheque Please Originally by: Jovan Geldon Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 17/08/2010 00:09:59 Can you put me on the waiting list for 150 mills worth of any future expansion please? Assuming there's any left after the initial lot have had their fill Hey, I wasn't initially going to do an expansion, but as I could use the isk atm (for reasons detailed in the other thread) here's your chance: Expansion Regardless, this first bond (the 3b one) will still be paid off in full on Sept. 13th. Fair enough, ignore my previous post then and I'll invest in that instead. Good luck
Zilkin Amarr	Posted - 2010.08.27 18:40:00 - [190] hmmm no payment recieved as yet.... so what is happening with this " Num. of Shares: 60 Individual Share Price: 50 million ISK Interest: 12% ( 6 million per share, monthly) - Dividends paid TWICE every 30 DAYS (360 million ISK monthly, 720 million total) - All assets liquidated and full investment returned after 61 DAYS"

Machete Visor	Posted - 2010.08.29 17:49:00 - [191] Originally by: Zilkin hmmm no payment recieved as yet.... so what is happening with this " Num. of Shares: 60 Individual Share Price: 50 million ISK Interest: 12% ( 6 million per share, monthly) - Dividends paid TWICE every 30 DAYS (360 million ISK monthly, 720 million total) - All assets liquidated and full investment returned after 61 DAYS" let me guess, he ran off with your ISK. Can't believe you guys threw so much at him with him making only 1 interest payment. christ, what is name again? cheque please? get it?
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.08.30 02:06:00 - [192] Originally by: Machete Visor Originally by: Zilkin hmmm no payment recieved as yet.... so what is happening with this " Num. of Shares: 60 Individual Share Price: 50 million ISK Interest: 12% ( 6 million per share, monthly) - Dividends paid TWICE every 30 DAYS (360 million ISK monthly, 720 million total) - All assets liquidated and full investment returned after 61 DAYS" let me guess, he ran off with your ISK. Can't believe you guys threw so much at him with him making only 1 interest payment. christ, what is name again? cheque please? get it? I really wanted the name Lady GaGa but some hotshot claimed it already... so I went with the next best thing that emphasizes mah mah mah poker face. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Seras Athran	Posted - 2010.08.30 03:45:00 - [193] Successful troll is successful?
Zilkin Amarr	Posted - 2010.08.30 13:23:00 - [194] false alarm lolz i have been paid was paid by char donation not dividend
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.30 13:26:00 - [195] Originally by: Zilkin false alarm lolz i have been paid was paid by char donation not dividend /me douses burning pitchforks /me wonders wtf she is going to do with 400 cheque please effigies...
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.09.06 21:30:00 - [196] Just a quick note as this bond will be concluding soon. Please return to me your shares sometime between now and the 12th. I would prefer to collect them all before I refund your initial investments on the 13h to make things a bit easier for me on the housekeeping side of things. I'm not going to forget who deposited what amount because I have everyone listed in the initial post. I also don't use the dividend feature anyway so the shares don't really matter besides filling up my corp shareholders list. Send me an evemail too if you want to confirm. Thanks --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.09.12 03:21:00 - [197] Payment #2 has been made, so this bond is concluded. To receive your initial investment, send me your shares back. Thanks --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
Marbo Slyder	Posted - 2010.09.13 17:05:00 - [198] Just to confirm that original investment was received in full, on return of shareholding. cheers fella
JtotheROC	Posted - 2010.09.16 14:21:00 - [199] Originally by: Cheque Please Payment #2 has been made, so this bond is concluded. To receive your initial investment, send me your shares back. Thanks I just sent back my shares. Can I please get my dividend payment and principal? Thank you.
Alacta Lithia	Posted - 2010.09.16 18:35:00 - [200] shares returned

Carlos Det	Posted - 2010.09.16 19:20:00 - [201] last dividend received , shares returned thanks
Cheque Please Hot Like Mexico	Posted - 2010.09.16 22:03:00 - [202] Hey, My internet has been down for a couple of days. As soon as its working again I'll refund you guys, hang tight. --- WORMHOLE SERVICE RL Meeting w/ Chribba
JtotheROC	Posted - 2010.09.17 16:47:00 - [203] Funds received, thank you. Very satisfied with Cheque Please, keep up the good work. I will be looking for more of your offerings.
Zilkin Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.17 17:39:00 - [204] shares sent back today only just realised it had closed now just waiting for my inital back


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