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PI industry, is it worth it ??

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GaKarr	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:55:00 - [1] Is it just me , or is PI not worth it? Got 5 planets on the go atm in a 0.5 sec system, doing T2 up to T3 products, got Advanced command centres , so can use a good amount of Extractors,im on 30 min cycles on extractors, i worked out the amount of time it would take for example to make robotics, by the time the resources had run out at 23 hours, not many robotics would be made , hardly enough to cover having to buy new extractors after the others have to be decommissioned so i could move to another good resource area. Unless of course the market prices go up because of this issue. Just seems at the moment that a whole lot of time is wasted on very minimal returns.
Nobzy	Posted - 2010.06.08 22:59:00 - [2] PI makes isk? Hell I didn't even realize I could make any isk with it amidst all the fun I was having.
NoFlint 42	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:10:00 - [3] Just did the math myself on my one sorry little rock I have settled......and no, I aint seeing the return either. I wasnt on the 'bash ccp band wagon' before, yet now....unless they change the market value, it will take me EON's to break even....I paid 2.4 mil for a CC that, at best, can build 1 part of a multi-part product that retails for 12,000 ISK? So the part I'm manufacturing is say, 1/3 that .....carry the one.... 4,000 isk IF there was a market for 'transmitters, wich there isn't........... The simple answer is a resounding NO, not worth the time. CCP, I want my 2.4 mil back!
Cameron Cein	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:26:00 - [4] yea its worth it-if simply for the fact that its fun...thats all the motivation i need :)
Ritzenhoff Gallente Ritzenhoff Industrial Design	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:30:00 - [5] I figure it will take 41 days to recoup my initial investment. Longer if the resources shift about a lot and I have to place new extractors. However, it shouldn't take much time to keep it all ticking over now it's set up. It's zero risk, cheap to get into, only a handful of skills needed... Sure it isn't some massive money spinner, but then what did you expect?
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:30:00 - [6] If you do it right...the material production can be significant, and I'm not talking about babysitting it for a while either. Its all about proper placement of EVERYTHING and how you utilize your grid to get maxium number of extractors. Sadly it is amazing how many people want to use current prices.. as in the npc buy orders to figure out the value. Those will be gone and soon. These materials are needed for T2, POS structures and POS fuel. When NPC does not supply anymore, it is up to the players. The less people producing a certain item, the more valuable it becomes (derr-derrrr!). So by all means.. anyone that doesn't like PI, please stop doing it. You'd be doing me and others a great benefit in the long run. Patiences.. the best attribute you can have when dealing with EVE market. Learn it.. sadly it can't be taught. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Mira Veru	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:41:00 - [7] Originally by: Umega If you do it right...the material production can be significant, and I'm not talking about babysitting it for a while either. Its all about proper placement of EVERYTHING and how you utilize your grid to get maxium number of extractors. Sadly it is amazing how many people want to use current prices.. as in the npc buy orders to figure out the value. Those will be gone and soon. These materials are needed for T2, POS structures and POS fuel. When NPC does not supply anymore, it is up to the players. The less people producing a certain item, the more valuable it becomes (derr-derrrr!). So by all means.. anyone that doesn't like PI, please stop doing it. You'd be doing me and others a great benefit in the long run. Patiences.. the best attribute you can have when dealing with EVE market. Learn it.. sadly it can't be taught. Dont tell them this. I want them to leave the market. More profit for me.
Ialjtat	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:44:00 - [8] Originally by: Umega When NPC does not supply anymore, it is up to the players. The less people producing a certain item, the more valuable it becomes (derr-derrrr!). You need to take into account the MASSIVE stockpiles that have easily been amassed. Stockpiling over a months output of a plant's worth of something like Construction Blocks takes less than the ISK of a L4 mission. It's going to be months upon months until PI is anywhere near worth wasting time on if you have access to L2 missions, T1 miners, or similar isk faucets.
NoFlint 42	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Umega Sadly it is amazing how many people want to use current prices.. as in the npc buy orders to figure out the value. Those will be gone and soon. These materials are needed for T2, POS structures and POS fuel. When NPC does not supply anymore, it is up to the players. The less people producing a certain item, the more valuable it becomes (derr-derrrr!). So by all means.. anyone that doesn't like PI, please stop doing it. You'd be doing me and others a great benefit in the long run. Patiences.. the best attribute you can have when dealing with EVE market. Learn it.. sadly it can't be taught. .....ah, I see. That makes sense, thanks! I need to pick up that 'Patience' thingy..... And yes, I was hoping for a money making machine, lol. Oh well....
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.06.08 23:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Ialjtat Originally by: Umega When NPC does not supply anymore, it is up to the players. The less people producing a certain item, the more valuable it becomes (derr-derrrr!). You need to take into account the MASSIVE stockpiles that have easily been amassed. Stockpiling over a months output of a plant's worth of something like Construction Blocks takes less than the ISK of a L4 mission. It's going to be months upon months until PI is anywhere near worth wasting time on if you have access to L2 missions, T1 miners, or similar isk faucets. I know. Which makes CCP's move of not out right removing all of the NPC buy/sell involving this upon full release of product absolutely absurd. I'm wondering just how high up the hamster is when it comes to calling the shots. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-

darkneko	Posted - 2010.06.09 00:09:00 - [11] and here i thought pi was just so i didnt have to buy any more pos fuel... and gave those 0.0 players a way to get it without flying back to high sec
Ned Freeman	Posted - 2010.06.09 00:17:00 - [12] Ok, so, i don't know how long it take for a resource to deplete but you don't have to worry about decommissioned extractors, just have to resurvey to get them going again.
StarshipAI	Posted - 2010.06.09 00:22:00 - [13] I give PI 3 thumbs up! This is the kind of tedium that some of us enjoy immensely.
Enthral	Posted - 2010.06.09 00:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Umega I know. Which makes CCP's move of not out right removing all of the NPC buy/sell involving this upon full release of product absolutely absurd. I'm wondering just how high up the hamster is when it comes to calling the shots. If CCP did remove the NPC buy/sell orders immediately upon release of the command centers, people would be screaming about absurdities as well. If I were in CCP's shoes, I would ask myself this: Who will scream the loudest? The people who want to try PI but are competing with NPC orders for a couple of months, or the people who suddenly find all their POS shutdown and their T2 production lines halted for weeks on end while everyone gets to grips with PI? If you ask me, I would say CCP probably made the right choice.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.06.09 00:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Enthral Originally by: Umega I know. Which makes CCP's move of not out right removing all of the NPC buy/sell involving this upon full release of product absolutely absurd. I'm wondering just how high up the hamster is when it comes to calling the shots. If CCP did remove the NPC buy/sell orders immediately upon release of the command centers, people would be screaming about absurdities as well. If I were in CCP's shoes, I would ask myself this: Who will scream the loudest? The people who want to try PI but are competing with NPC orders for a couple of months, or the people who suddenly find all their POS shutdown and their T2 production lines halted for weeks on end while everyone gets to grips with PI? If you ask me, I would say CCP probably made the right choice. Ehhhh.. matter of opinion. I understand that perspective, but I believe there has been enough knowledge of PI for months that IF CCP stated they were removing POS structures, fuel, P2, P3, T2 and everything that comes from PI from npc buy/sell database.. people would have had plenty of time to stockpile and prepare accordingly. The method they are taking now is creating a huge problem already that the whole melting of POS created before.. which they obviously did not like by their actions after the fact. You'd think one mistake was enough, to repeat it again is rather puzzling and alarming. Makes me wonder what the dev team is thinking, and what else they thinking for the future that will negatively effect EVE once more. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.06.09 02:29:00 - [16] Originally by: StarshipAI I give PI 3 thumbs up! This is the kind of tedium that some of us enjoy immensely. We're glad you find PI "exciting", but referring to it as a third thumb was perhaps Too Much Information.
Ella C'Tronix	Posted - 2010.06.09 02:46:00 - [17] Is it fun and cool? Yes Is it worth it? No - not if you're doing it in highsec. I just ran math on my moderate colonies, and it will literally take 48 years to earn back what I spent on setting it all up if I include the training skills and everything into the math. I researched it, followed guides, wasn't a dummy about it. Perhaps this will change once NPC goods start disappearing, or once I get a better command center (currently only able to use "improved") Oh, and I almost forgot. I just made you read my signature.
El Liptonez	Posted - 2010.06.09 03:05:00 - [18] Edited by: El Liptonez on 09/06/2010 03:06:06 Right now it's pretty easy to make isk. Some people buy the raw and processed raw materials at ridiculously high prices so that a single 0.0 planet can net incomes of nearly half a technetium moon (assuming the prices stay at current level). Just scale it down to the high sec amounts, there's still money to be had. Industrial Fibers are one of those examples. 20 units per 30 minutes at 1500 ISK/unit get you 60k isk/h from just one processor, build 3 of those processors and you'll make 4mil isk a day. Raw materials are being bought at 12 isk per unit, do the math. Moon comparison would apply here. Edit: The calculation up there is wrong, I suck at math. But you get the idea.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.06.09 03:23:00 - [19] Edited by: Akita T on 09/06/2010 03:23:12 ___ 1+++ bil ISK/month IN HIGHSEC while it lasts Oh, yeah, the little trick is to not use extractors at all and just mooch off of NPC P2 sell orders while the extra-gracious guys at CCP don't consider taking them out yet ...oh, and selling to P3 buy orders since hey, why bother with other players _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Emporer Norton	Posted - 2010.06.09 03:30:00 - [20] Assume p4 products go for 1.7 mill each If you can get a chain running producing 1/hour will be 1.2 billion isk/month It may end up being more or less then that but based of current npc price a mobile lab cost 90 million isk uses 47 p4 parts and 2 cap cons parts at 5 mill eac for th cap parts comes to 1.7 mill each part it may end up being more or less then this but I'd guess be fairly close if not more. With maxed skills shouldn't be too hard to do I'm currently making 1/2 of the hourly usage of biocells for a brodcast node in a not so great highsec planet if moved to lowsec and had a better setup could easily do enough for the full usage to produce 24/day also am only using an advanced command center once upgrade to elite should be no problem 6 inputs on a p4 so with elite center and 6 planets should be easy to do this and more

Salvia Olima The All-Seeing Eye Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.09 05:19:00 - [21] For me, it is 5 characters on 2 accounts doing PI, working together for 3 different tier-4 planetary product in nullsec. Most of them will NOT reach the market, some of them will be traded directly within the Alliance to other tier-4, some of them will be bartered for fuel. I believe that for a long time people will not put the high-end products to market, and I hope that Atlas will shoot more POS in the near future, as now our corp became financially interested in every vaporized control tower :)
Mongo21	Posted - 2010.06.09 05:20:00 - [22] I've got 5 planets set up bringing me in a steady source of 2 different P4 products. 2 of the planets are devoted wholly to making a P3 item, 1 makes only a P2 item (damn gas planets and link costs), 1 making 2 P1s and a P2, and the barren having the two P4 factories, and making 2 P2s and 2 P3s itself by importing most of the lower tier items from the other planets. Totally self-sufficient, don't have to buy a thing. Assuming sterile conduits and nano-factories sell well in the future, I could make some good money off my ~30M investment.
menacemyth	Posted - 2010.06.09 06:06:00 - [23] Originally by: Mira Veru Originally by: Umega If you do it right...the material production can be significant, and I'm not talking about babysitting it for a while either. Its all about proper placement of EVERYTHING and how you utilize your grid to get maxium number of extractors. Sadly it is amazing how many people want to use current prices.. as in the npc buy orders to figure out the value. Those will be gone and soon. These materials are needed for T2, POS structures and POS fuel. When NPC does not supply anymore, it is up to the players. The less people producing a certain item, the more valuable it becomes (derr-derrrr!). So by all means.. anyone that doesn't like PI, please stop doing it. You'd be doing me and others a great benefit in the long run. Patiences.. the best attribute you can have when dealing with EVE market. Learn it.. sadly it can't be taught. Dont tell them this. I want them to leave the market. More profit for me. Yah, hey I'm starting a movement! Let's say to **** with PI. cmon let's all just quit because it's really way too much work for the return!
Plumpy McPudding Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.06.09 07:00:00 - [24] Edited by: Plumpy McPudding on 09/06/2010 07:00:35 I just built my first Commander Center on a Temperate in some far-flung solar system of the universe, and I have two extractors for each resource presently on the planet. I was wondering if it was worth building multiple basic/advanced factories so I can build multiple products at the same time. Or should I simply stack extractors like a madman? __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Svarty II Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.09 07:56:00 - [25] Stick with missions, this doesn't make money.
Fritz Ionar Minmatar LifeLine Solutions	Posted - 2010.06.09 08:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Cameron Cein yea its worth it-if simply for the fact that its fun...thats all the motivation i need :) So true. I never understand the people who seems to play with the sole intent on makeing as much ISK/h as possible... I just do the things I find entertaining, kind of thought that was the point of a game any way
Soliscout	Posted - 2010.06.09 09:43:00 - [27] Originally by: Fritz Ionar Originally by: Cameron Cein yea its worth it-if simply for the fact that its fun...thats all the motivation i need :) So true. I never understand the people who seems to play with the sole intent on makeing as much ISK/h as possible... I just do the things I find entertaining, kind of thought that was the point of a game any way Cause this isnt a game? This is serious business !
VinLieger Caldari Kraken Heads	Posted - 2010.06.09 10:05:00 - [28] Ofc it wont make money right off the bat, like everything else in this game it requires investment. Once they start removing all the npc sell orders and the player market starts developing and stabilising then we will see how much money it will make, but thats gonna take a week or 2 to start happening -----------------------
GaKarr	Posted - 2010.06.09 10:17:00 - [29] Some interesting replies ! Yeah you maybe right about hanging on and waiting for the market to settle , and getting the planets all working efficiently as poss for the moment; and theres always peeps who like to play with stuff like this rather than make money ,with no freindly alliance or corp in 0.0 , risking a cloaky hauler to collect materials is too much of a risk to be offset by the not so great gains in isk atm. Will be interesting to see what the situation is like in 6 months time :)
BharkKoum Zeer Gallente Amarr Empire Research Copr	Posted - 2010.06.09 14:12:00 - [30] Edited by: BharkKoum Zeer on 09/06/2010 14:12:48 After setting up extractors and facotries on several planets in order to make one POS component, it seems to me that the ratio used to produce the second tier item is too restrictive. I have to place 3000 units of a component to receive only 30 units output. This is very similar to the original moon mining transmutations that had to later on be adjusted to produce enough ferrogel. I dont like the 30 minute cycle since I dont have all day to stay looged on the game. After spending a day on this and with the work of two toons I was able to produce 5 units of enriched uranium in high sec. This is going to be very difficult to keep pos'es going based upon player production of NPC goods. Oh yes the resources on my planets are starting to run out!!!!LMAO



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