It's Christianity, but just saying the word sticks in my throat. So I, along with many others abreviate it.

It's Christianity, but just saying the word sticks in my throat. So I, along with many others abreviate it.

0/10

Also, sane atheists do what we want religious people to do - keep their opinions to themselves.

Can you provide empirical evidence that proves Jesus Christ is not the son of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

People who ask for tolerance seem to forget that it works both ways.

Why do you think an atheist has to be tolerant? I'm an atheist and I would ban and persecute all religions and try to eradicate this stupidity once and for all if I was a dictator with the power to do so :)

A preference for reason has little to do with tolerance for unreason and insane beliefs.

I'm not an atheist and will not be drawn into a theological argument.
My point is; advertising of any description that is not Eve related has no place withinour universe.
Viewing containers labled "JESUS SAVES" does not make me wonder "Which bank?" It just makes me cringe.
It's the thin end of the wedge. If this is allowed then where does advertising stop?
Do you really want to be scrolling down 1000 containers in your overview just to find the gate you need to jump through or the asteroid you want to mine?

If you want to make the world a better place, you have to learn to get along - not try to make everyone agree with you. Getting offended by something like this is pointless and just plain stupid. It accomplishes nothing.

Holy **** people are taking this so seriously.

Laugh at the cans and move on. Personally I'd just shoot them for giggles, but I don't live in babyspace.

In before the lock for discussing religion.

...
I was more offended by ...
...

The correct thing to do would be to petition it. I can't think of any reason you'd make a thread about it, especially with a title like this one unless you wanted to purposefully create a torrent of e-drama.

Those bible guys clearly haven't seen the EvE intro where evolution clearly is the reason for the existence of all 4 races in EvE

Why do you think an atheist has to be tolerant? I'm an atheist and I would ban and persecute all religions and try to eradicate this stupidity once and for all if I was a dictator with the power to do so :)

A preference for reason has little to do with tolerance for unreason and insane beliefs.

Give man a beer, and he will prove evolution as truth.

...and this is where the trolls got successful.

- Keeping real life stuff out of game, OK. Religion, politics, etc... it messes up the "immersion".

- Actual discussion of such religions/politics/etc --> Shady

- Being flat out anti-religion, prohibited by the EULA:

"You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies"

If you want the cans away for messing up immersion with RL stuff... OK. If you want the cans gone because they advertize xyz religion... I'm out.

Are you denying the fact that pastafarianism is an actual religion? The Austrian traffic authorities would like a word.

Duno... I'm a Haruhiist and my god is prettier than yours.

You could put up Pro-Atheism cans, Pro-Christianity cans, Pro-Muslim cans, or Pro-Jewish cans (though, they're not exactly known for their evangelical streak).

I`m a Hindu and feel left out

It's Christianity, but just saying the word sticks in my throat. So I, along with many others abreviate it.

Shouldn't it be +ianity? G£ƒianity?

X isn't as Christian as G£ƒ or +

May Moses Budhajesus have mercy on your shakra.

If you wardec a corp can you shoot cans owned by players in that corp?

It's Christianity, but just saying the word sticks in my throat. So I, along with many others abreviate it.

It's Christianity, but just saying the word sticks in my throat. So I, along with many others abreviate it.

subliminally forced down my throat.

I mean your pettiness and intolerance alone makes me want to find your home system in game and drop all sorts of cans outside your station of choice, regardless of my RL belief system.

Greetings



I mean your pettiness and intolerance alone makes me want to find your home system in game and drop all sorts of cans outside your station of choice, regardless of my RL belief system.

vr
East

This game needs to be kept secular so that we are able to wind down after our days toil and relax , without fanatics bringing their hang ups into our domain.

Kinda hard to keep religion out of EVE, considering that Amarr are pretty much just Space Christians. With their superiority complex and support of slavery they fit the kind of Christianity the Bible, especially the Old Testament, tries to sell.

Remove the cans by taking the stuff from them.

I'm not sure what part of christianity supports slavery, but otherwise i guess the Amarr can be compared to any particularly militaristic religions.

Amarr FW = Islamic Jihad = Christian Crusades?

makes me so glad our corp is planning on joining Amarr FW

Why do you think an atheist has to be tolerant? I'm an atheist and I would ban and persecute all religions and try to eradicate this stupidity once and for all if I was a dictator with the power to do so :)

A preference for reason has little to do with tolerance for unreason and insane beliefs.

I love the Athiest tears in this thread... seriously OP?
now I'm going to anchor a few more cans... Isn't Jesus the Amarr Empress younger brother?
Hail Prince Jesus of Amarr

You're quite stupid if you believe them tears to be genuine.

Are you suggesting that OP is trolling GD instead of GD trolling OP? Darn!

"You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies"

Why do you think an atheist has to be tolerant? I'm an atheist and I would ban and persecute all religions and try to eradicate this stupidity once and for all if I was a dictator with the power to do so :)

A preference for reason has little to do with tolerance for unreason and insane beliefs.

Most people turned off containers on their overview a looooooooong time ago. You only need it on a tab specifically for looting.

It still hurts to look at other people's overviews in screenshots sometimes.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Seriously, folks, can anyone actually confirm the existence of these alleged Containers of XXX Spam?

Both Christians and atheists are non-believers. The only difference is the number of gods they don't believe in.
Christians don't believe in hundreds of different gods, atheists don't believe in those gods either, but additionally they don't believe in just one more than the Christians. Atheism and Christianity are clearly very close brothers.

But they are also believers of their own convictions.

cleverly argumentative.

The problem with atheists is that they don't have no songs.

You don't realize that you're just as wrong here as the religions that do the same to atheists, do you?

They're opinions. I hold the opinion that pretty much every religion is a scam that grew beyond its creator, or a feel-good story to help simple minded people fall asleep at night. But you know what? I don't throw that in people's faces. Live and let live.

If you want to make the world a better place, you have to learn to get along - not try to make everyone agree with you. Getting offended by something like this is pointless and just plain stupid. It accomplishes nothing.

...If you want to make the world a better place...

Pics or it didn't happen.

Seriously, folks, can anyone actually confirm the existence of these alleged Containers of XXX Spam?

...the 5 systems that form a Star of David on Dotlan (Kador-Aridia)...

Erm...

The Star of David has 6 points.

What you're seeing is a pentacle.

I don't know how many of you have noticed containers anchored near gates, particularly in Amarr, advertizing Xianity.
I don't have a problem with freedom of religion but I do have a problem when it is brought into my game and subliminally forced down my throat.
This game needs to be kept secular so that we are able to wind down after our days toil and relax , without fanatics bringing their hang ups into our domain.
I will petition a complaint to CCP before we see a million containers anchored in our free space, advertizing "Daves plumbing supplies" and the like.
The last thing I want is an approach to each system looking like the yellow pages.

It's Christianity, but just saying the word sticks in my throat. So I, along with many others abreviate it.

Religions are a lot like penises. It's cool to have one, and it's cool to be proud of it. Please just don't whip it out in public or shove it down the throats of the unwilling.

It's Christianity, but just saying the word sticks in my throat. So I, along with many others abreviate it.

It's Christianity, but just saying the word sticks in my throat. So I, along with many others abreviate it.

I'm an atheist, and I don't care what the f*ck kind of crazy sh*t you believe in. Until someone starts shoving it in my face, at which point I would like nothing more than to ventilate their head IRL.

EDIT: TL;DR, leave me the **** alone with missionary activities except in bed.

Religions are a lot like penises. It's cool to have one, and it's cool to be proud of it. Please just don't whip it out in public or shove it down the throats of the unwilling.

It is one of those things Christians don't wish were in The Bible; it includes several guidelines of how to treat your slaves, and how to deal with women you've forced into sexual slavery.

I don't know how many of you have noticed containers anchored near gates, particularly in Amarr, advertizing Xianity.
I don't have a problem with freedom of religion but I do have a problem when it is brought into my game and subliminally forced down my throat.
This game needs to be kept secular so that we are able to wind down after our days toil and relax , without fanatics bringing their hang ups into our domain.
I will petition a complaint to CCP before we see a million containers anchored in our free space, advertizing "Daves plumbing supplies" and the like.
The last thing I want is an approach to each system looking like the yellow pages.

Thanks to the wonders of the internet I can spread the word of God to all his lost children, including within this game. While you may feel uncomfortable with our messages of salvation there are many in game who are willing to listen to the words of our lord. But we cannot help the lost without setting up a beacon of light to help guide them back onto the path of salvation. I hope you will understand and good blessing to those who do.

God Bless you.

As we say in Amarr space: Burn the Heretic!

Peace out.

Can't shoot'em in baby space... maybe, anchor a "maybe there's no God" can right next to xtian one? :D

Why do you think an atheist has to be tolerant? I'm an atheist and I would ban and persecute all religions and try to eradicate this stupidity once and for all if I was a dictator with the power to do so :)

A preference for reason has little to do with tolerance for unreason and insane beliefs.

Religion should have the same rules as fight club

1. You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.
2. You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB.

and IIRC nowhere in either testament does it say "go forth and shove this down unbelievers throats", unless you're from Amarr in which case it's not your beliefs you're sticking down an unwilling participants throat

Good sir, faith is not an item that can be forced upon somebody, they must be able to find it on their own free will that God gave them. But they do not have to wander the forest alone, and our message of love has helped guide many to salvation.

If you feel threatened by our belief in faith and life immortal then I am truly sorry for the pain that has been brought upon you. Ours is a message of love and peace and its intent is not to make others around us angry, but to teach us all, Christians and non Christians alike, to open our hearts to warmth and peace eternal. Perhaps you should look deep down inside and ask yourself why you perceive such a message of hate instead of love.

God Bless you.

From this page we get rules #3 & #9:

Rule #3:
"You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies"

Rule #9:
"You may not advertise, employ, market, or promote any form of solicitation GÇô including pyramid schemes and chain letters GÇô in the EVE Online game world or on the website."

So you can not be anti can because it's an Christian can. That part is clear. However, is the can a "form of solicitation"? Dunno... I'll let the internet lawyers battle this one out.

Some screen-shoots of said cans might me helpful (if allowed).

I think all religions which are based on a belief in some meta-physical being are equally silly.

Personally I have no problem with others faith, in fact I admire the strength required to believe in an entity whose existence can not be proved one way or the other. What I do object to is those who not only believe but think that it's their god given right to preach their belief on my doorstep and in my entertainment. I am an Agnostic not an Atheist (not as fine a line as you may think), if there is a deity or deities humanity is in no way qualified to claim that they know them intimately, especially while we're still busy killing each other in the name of various deities.

Religion should be a personal thing and not spouted at random to prove how pious you are as a person or an organisation, some religions are more guilty of this than others, some are just in it for the money.

So do atheists lack genitalia then? I am confused...

Is this a round about way of saying the OP is lacking in some regard?

Please explain.

People who believe in their dreams are silly?

Without dreams, EVE wouldn't exist and you wouldn't have posted what you posted.

now the curious part would be how people who believe in such things happen to end up in EVE and on top of that in amarr space.

that would not be exactly the place i'd expect them to hang out.

but then again, its religion, it ought to be a bit illogical

...
i am not saying religious people should not play EVE, it would just seem the ideas of both are somewhat ... incompatible considering all the violence and doing bad to others ?

We're not Amish here . I know it sounds crazy to believe but many church goers go to the same functions as you including bars, sports, movies, or concerts. They may be sitting next to you on the train or in the workplace. They may be your neighbor. Being in a religion does not mean a life in the 17th century . You are not required to give anything up and in fact you simply gain more. Bless you for that laugh.

p.s. Its funny but a bad google search can take you from religion to this game.

Religious people love nothing more than to meddle in other peoples lives. They want to control womens wombs, they want to make women wear specific clothing, they want to tell you who you can and cannot marry, they want to tell you that science is a false, they wish to instill fear into people by making them think they are going to go to some make believe place filled with fire and brimstone if they do not worship the supreme invisible man in the sky, they are all about controlling people...and having power over the masses.

There are many terms in the world of psychiatry that fit people who share the mental illness known as religion.

You make it sound like all religious folk are alike.

Some just want to be left alone and believe what they believe.


And since you can usually (at least in "civilized" countries) leave, they can't force you to do anything either. No more about control than a doctor suggesting a person take vitamins.

I think the basic idea of religion is summed up with the image of the pope holding a gold cross while asking people to pray for hungry children.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/pray-for-the-starving-children-while-i-hold-this-gold-cross.jpg

We're not Amish here . I know it sounds crazy to believe but many church goers go to the same functions as you including bars, sports, movies, or concerts. They may be sitting next to you on the train or in the workplace. They may be your neighbor. Being in a religion does not mean a life in the 17th century . You are not required to give anything up and in fact you simply gain more. Bless you for that laugh.

p.s. Its funny but a bad google search can take you from religion to this game.

Except that in places like the US, a group of these idiots get together and try to legislate their religion on the rest of us.

Thanks to the wonders of the internet I can spread the word of God to all his lost children, including within this game. While you may feel uncomfortable with our messages of salvation there are many in game who are willing to listen to the words of our lord. But we cannot help the lost without setting up a beacon of light to help guide them back onto the path of salvation. I hope you will understand and good blessing to those who do.

God Bless you.

You make it sound like all religious folk are alike.

Religious people love nothing more than to meddle in other peoples lives. They want to control womens wombs, they want to make women wear specific clothing, they want to tell you who you can and cannot marry, they want to tell you that science is a false, they wish to instill fear into people by making them think they are going to go to some make believe place filled with fire and brimstone if they do not worship the supreme invisible man in the sky, they are all about controlling people...and having power over the masses.

There are many terms in the world of psychiatry that fit people who share the mental illness known as religion.

Yep. And the basic idea of education is summed up by that one teacher who had sex with their student.

Sorry to generalize, but when it comes to religion, I have no room to discriminate.

(1)Religious people love nothing more than to meddle in other peoples lives. (2)They want to control womens wombs, (3)they want to make women wear specific clothing, (4)they want to tell you who you can and cannot marry, (5)they want to tell you that science is a false, (6)they wish to instill fear into people by making them think they are going to go to some make believe place filled with fire and brimstone if they do not worship the supreme invisible man in the sky, they are all (7)about controlling people...and having power over the masses.

There are many terms in the world of psychiatry that fit people who share the mental illness known as religion.

If by teacher you mean priest at a Catholic school, then yes.

Considering much of the US was formed by a religious group,...

Except that, all fo the founding fathers of the US wanted to keep religion and government separate. Just more parroting what you hear in church.

The problem with atheists is that they don't have no songs.

I see. I guess all blacks are gang members with poor speech. And all Hispanics are trying to steal jobs in the US. And all Native Americans run casinos...

That is what religious followers would have you believe. It isn't true in the least. The founding fathers of the US didn't want religion in any shape or form to be involved with the government - for fear that they would encounter the same issues England had with the Church of England, or the French had with the Pope in Rome, or any number of countries that allowed relgions to dictate laws. Sorry, the US was not founded on so called "Judeo" Christianity - at all.

I said religion, did I mention any other group, race, or anything other than religion. Learn to read.

I didn't want to get involved in this nonsensical debate, but now I don't really have a choice.



1 - True religion is nothing more than the search for the Infinite Truth. If someone is trying to instruct you, they want to help you reach this Truth. If someone does do it in order to meddle, then they aren't following a true religion, but are merely using it as an excuse to meddle. These people would meddle whether they were the Pope or the leader of the Atheist group down the street.

2 - The issue is about life and death, if someone says abortion/contraception is wrong, then they're concerned about the life of a child. The choice is having intercourse or not.

3 - This is a blanket statement that does not apply to all. Some do or would force women to wear certain types of clothing (Islam, more fundamental Christian groups), while others suggest what would be good, and others don't care.

4 - Religious groups believe that marriage is a covenant between two people before God. Therefore, of course they would have a say in who people can marry. Civil marriage is another matter.

5 - True religions believe that Reason and Religion are infinitely compatible, since both stem from the same source. If a religious group tells you the principles of science are evil, then you should definitely run away from that group.

6 - Some, maybe, but once again, be wary of blanket statements.

7 - Religious groups aren't the only ones that seek power. If a self-proclaimed religious group does seek power, then it is no religious group at all, and is a cult instead.

I'm not sure I'd argue it gives you "more", I mean more of what exactly? It's just a difference of opinion based on the interpretation (or ignorance) of the facts known by an individual.

It would be interesting to see if there's any correlation between perceived quality of life and religiosity though. But IIRC there is in most countries a negative correlation between religiosity, personal income and level of education. There is also, at least in America, a higher chance of an individual in prison being religious than one who is not in prison.

Whilst it is an interesting thought, none of the statistics I've seen link religion to a higher degree of satisfaction with ones life. Seeing religiosty plotted against suicide rates would be pretty fascinating in this regard.

Also, why is this thread not locked yet?

I didn't want to get involved in this nonsensical debate, but now I don't really have a choice.



1 - True religion is nothing more than the search for the Infinite Truth. If someone is trying to instruct you, they want to help you reach this Truth. If someone does do it in order to meddle, then they aren't following a true religion, but are merely using it as an excuse to meddle. These people would meddle whether they were the Pope or the leader of the Atheist group down the street.

2 - The issue is about life and death, if someone says abortion/contraception is wrong, then they're concerned about the life of a child. The choice is having intercourse or not.

3 - This is a blanket statement that does not apply to all. Some do or would force women to wear certain types of clothing (Islam, more fundamental Christian groups), while others suggest what would be good, and others don't care.

4 - Religious groups believe that marriage is a covenant between two people before God. Therefore, of course they would have a say in who people can marry. Civil marriage is another matter.

5 - True religions believe that Reason and Religion are infinitely compatible, since both stem from the same source. If a religious group tells you the principles of science are evil, then you should definitely run away from that group.

6 - Some, maybe, but once again, be wary of blanket statements.

7 - Religious groups aren't the only ones that seek power. If a self-proclaimed religious group does seek power, then it is no religious group at all, and is a cult instead.

That is what religious followers would have you believe. It isn't true in the least. The founding fathers of the US didn't want religion in any shape or form to be involved with the government - for fear that they would encounter the same issues England had with the Church of England, or the French had with the Pope in Rome, or any number of countries that allowed relgions to dictate laws. Sorry, the US was not founded on so called "Judeo" Christianity - at all.

1. the only worthy human endeavor is science. it is the only thing that will save this terrible species.
2. Except that, it doesnt seek to just do that for its adherents, but for everyone else too.
3. I agree with this.
4. Marriage is a legal contract. You should be allowed to marry whoever you want, even multiple people, without persecution.
5. The majority of religious groups do just that today, state that science is all wrong. see, climate change deniers, antievolutionists. We should throw these people into a volcano, because gravity and plate tectonics are just theories right?
6. Not just some, but most.
7. All associations of people seek power, not limited to religions.

You are looking for something tangible or material. You will not find it. It is about strength from within and the belief that anything is possible. If you would like an excellent example MSN had a video the other day where a elderly woman found the strength to not only face her sons killer, but she forgave him and in fact those 2 live together now. Between his time reflecting and her guidance now he can see that path once more. In essence her strength is giving him strength. There are many prime examples such as that and I hope that you see more within time. Every good act makes us better as a whole.

I'm not an atheist and will not be drawn into a theological argument.

Being formed by a religious group, and allowing that religion to dictate the running of a country are two different things.

The US was founded by those who were very religious. They chose to keep religion out of the government (as much as was possible) to avoid the issues of their parent countries.

1) or kill us all
2) thats fair, though does not apply to all religions.
4) fully agree, and some religions follow that (a legal marriage being separate from the religious one).
5) some do not have a problem with all science, just the theories (and they are just theories) that conflict with their beliefs. Whats wrong with not believing a theory that you have an alternate explanation for?
6) personally think its about even
7) absolutely.

If your going to stereotypical (and incorrectly) one group, you might as well do them all.

1. the only worthy human endeavor is science. it is the only thing that will save this terrible species.

2. Except that, it doesnt seek to just do that for its adherents, but for everyone else too.

4. Marriage is a legal contract. You should be allowed to marry whoever you want, even multiple people, without persecution.

5. The majority of religious groups do just that today, state that science is all wrong. see, climate change deniers, antievolutionists. We should throw these people into a volcano, because gravity and plate tectonics are just theories right?

That is what religious followers would have you believe. It isn't true in the least. The founding fathers of the US didn't want religion in any shape or form to be involved with the government - for fear that they would encounter the same issues England had with the Church of England, or the French had with the Pope in Rome, or any number of countries that allowed relgions to dictate laws. Sorry, the US was not founded on so called "Judeo" Christianity - at all.

Yup, WWI and WWII, along with the millions of deaths caused by both, took place in this age of science. Don't forget it was science that created the Atomic Bomb, and science alone will never be able to use its discoveries properly.


Of course, if you thought something was genocide, would you stand by and let it happen?


Marriage has been around before the establishment of government and laws. As such, it is more than a simple legal contract.


While some groups do hate science, it is possible that they hate it because what science preaches as true goes against what they teach. Instead of attacking science with reasonable arguments, they attack it with foolishness and fearmongering. These groups cannot stand the test of time. Once again: true religion and true reason will be infinitely compatible, since both stem from the same source.

As for 'antievolutionists', I suppose I would be one, but not because the Bible tells me so. I have yet to see enough evidence of trans-species evolution. There are too many unanswered questions with regards to this for me to agree with the idea.

Please tell me you understand the meaning of the word "theory" in a scientific context? Because you have made it sound terribly like you do not.

Trans-species evolution? I'm actually afraid to ask.

I think he means a significant enough change to allow for the formation of a new species, likely referring to more complex organisms that bacteria.

just a guess.

As for 'antievolutionists', I suppose I would be one, but not because the Bible tells me so. I have yet to see enough evidence of trans-species evolution...However, there is enough evidence to support the idea that change over time does happen within populations of single species.

Yes. It is as it sounds, an explanation of an observation based on evidence, but not yet fully proven. There may or may not be other theories (whether scientific or not).
Also in a scientific sense, it must have a testable and repeatable hypothesis to be valid.

It is still limited to being only an interpretation of evidence.

Or any one species going to another species at all.

While some groups do hate science, it is possible that they hate it because what science preaches as true goes against what they teach. Instead of attacking science with reasonable arguments, they attack it with foolishness and fearmongering. These groups cannot stand the test of time. Once again: true religion and true reason will be infinitely compatible, since both stem from the same source.

As for 'antievolutionists', I suppose I would be one, but not because the Bible tells me so. I have yet to see enough evidence of trans-species evolution. There are too many unanswered questions with regards to this for me to agree with the idea.

EDIT: However, there is enough evidence to support the idea that change over time does happen within populations of single species.

Do you have any evidence to support your hypothesis that atheists are incapable, or less likely to exhibit, this kind of behavior? Because without that, your story has little relevance to the original question I posed.

Or any one species going to another species at all.

Either evolution happens, or God has perpetrated a MASSIVE hoax on us by creating a consistently-layered fossil record all over the world that has convinced thousands upon thousands of people who actually STUDY these things that evolution has been going on for billions of years.

So which is it? Evolution, or God the Deceiver?

I give you exhibit A...Ginseng. All joking aside, again, you are looking for something tangible to reflect upon. There is no law saying that a non religious man is less capable of performing the same act and heaven forbid that I would ever make a claim as such. I try to think of teachings as a tool of guidance. Its like instructions, they may be right there but it doesn't necessarily mean you have to use them.

5) some do not have a problem with all science, just the theories (and they are just theories) that conflict with their beliefs. Whats wrong with not believing a theory that you have an alternate explanation for?

So basically you are retracting your original statement?

I give you exhibit A...Ginseng. All joking aside, again, you are looking for something tangible to reflect upon. There is no law saying that a non religious man is less capable of performing the same act and heaven forbid that I would ever make a claim as such. I try to think of teachings as a tool of guidance. Its like instructions, they may be right there but it doesn't necessarily mean you have to use them.

Did you know there are some breeds of dogs which cannot produce viable offspring when mated? Beagles and Irish Setters, for example, almost never produce puppies at all. As one of the more common definitions of species involves the ability to reproduce, it seems we're looking at the beginning of a divergence in the species. It's quite possible that the artificial selection placed upon dogs has driven their evolution fast enough that we can actually document the start of an divergence in the past few hundred years.

Evolution generally takes millenia. We only came up with the idea less than 200 years ago. Just what are you expecting? A chimp to have a human baby? That's not how it works.

The problem with theories is just that, the word theory. In common usage the word theory means something quite different than the scientific term theory. When you say theory, you make it seem like it was something someone pulled out of their ass. In science, a theory is something that has had DECADES of thought, experiment, and other research poured into it, including peer review. On alternate explanations: this is where it gets twisted, as these are the ones that are usually pulled from the ass, and are designed to explain a preconceived notion, ie religion.

Scientific theory is NOT up for debate or subject to your opinion.

By the sounds of it Fiona isn't talking about speciation, we've witness that and even forced it to occur in the past.

I presume she is either trolling or genuinely believes evolution involves a point at which one species gives birth to another.

Except they are. Even the best scientific theory has yet to be completely proven.

Take gravity for example. We (general public) accept it as proven.
However, it hasn't been. The force that holds massive objects together cannot be seen, only its effects. Until we identify what directly causes the attraction between massive objects, the theory of gravity as a whole is incomplete. And what causes that attraction is of continuous debate.

The only issue I see is evolution being propped up as fact when the fossil record does not support the theory behind it. If evolution was the result of millions of minor changes over a long stretch of time. You would expect to see millions of variations of humans and animals in the fossil record. Currently we have only found steps that require a leap of faith to connect as related to one another.

Expect that you can be 'good' without religion. And it's been happening everywhere for some time. The re-ocurring theme in Christianity is "You can never be good enough, because even your good deeds are based on selfish desires"


Also props to the OP for creating a religious discussion with his whine about containers in space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

Basically, species experience long periods of stability with few apparent changes. Mate selection tyipcally favors same-ness, so most radical changes would be bred out as undesirable. Evolutionary change is driven by adaptation. Adaptation isn't necessary if you're well-suited for your environment. Sharks, for example, haven't had significant changes in hundreds of millions of years. Change happens fast because it MUST happen fast. (and by fast, I mean on the order of tens or hundreds of thousands of years, compared to potentially millions of years of "stasis")

There are several different species concepts.

Been awhile since I've seen the either/or fallacy. Its neither.

I generally use the term to describe the point at which one subset of a species loses the capacity to reproduce with another (or with an ancestor), this does not happen in a single generation.