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What is the one true weakness of minmatar ships?

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Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.06.20 21:46:00 - [1] Watching AT8, I was thinking: Gallente big weaknesses are short falloff and optimal + limited damage types and vulnerable drones. Caldari big weaknesses are missile travel time, and in many cases dps. Amarr big weaknessess are limited damage types. Minmatar has great optimal, falloff, can mix damage types, primarily uses turrets and has good dps. I could say tracking, but it's not a real big issue. What am I missing here? Maybe it's obvious. But what do you think is minmatar's big weakness(es)?
McRoll Minmatar Heatseekers	Posted - 2010.06.20 21:49:00 - [2] You have witnessed the excellence of Minmatar engineering which resulted in complete annihilation of their enemies. Other races laughed at our ships, see where it got them. They have no weaknesses. Minmatar. In rust they trust.
Demolishar United Aggression Eternal Ascension	Posted - 2010.06.20 21:51:00 - [3] Minmatar guns tracking is actually the best of all the guns. They really have no weakness.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.06.20 21:52:00 - [4] Nerf Minmatar! Originally by: Balsak Eve-Online, the game that is so awesome people are willing to give CCP money so that they may have the privilege to bash it.
Tsukiko Ishida Taj'Kura	Posted - 2010.06.20 21:52:00 - [5] When flown too close to the sun, the duct tape begins to fall off.
Moonmonkey Amarr Orange Clover	Posted - 2010.06.20 21:57:00 - [6] Split weapon systems. Split slot lay out, making for a weaker tank.
Devil tiger	Posted - 2010.06.20 21:58:00 - [7] I'd say its sensor strenght and damn near worthless racial e-war type, which isn't a real weakness since all racial except Caldari suck equally bad (which is near OP so everybody uses it thus making it ok).
Obyrith	Posted - 2010.06.20 21:59:00 - [8] Edited by: Obyrith on 20/06/2010 21:59:06 Originally by: Demolishar Minmatar guns tracking is actually the best of all the guns. They really have no weakness. Actually blasters track better, but their range problems cancel out that slight advantage.
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:03:00 - [9] Traditionally Minmatar weaknesses have been low sensor strength making them easier to jam than other races along with generally weaker local tanks relying more on speed and hit and run tactics. How much of a weakness these things are in todays game environment is debatable.
Alex Tantra Minmatar Ministry of Destruction	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Obyrith Edited by: Obyrith on 20/06/2010 21:59:06 Originally by: Demolishar Minmatar guns tracking is actually the best of all the guns. They really have no weakness. Actually blasters track better, but their range problems cancel out that slight advantage.

Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:03:00 - [11] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Watching AT8, I was thinking: What am I missing here? Maybe it's obvious. You are missing the obvious. Every race has their pro's and con's, some of them have been described to you here (but I would hope you could point them out yourself). Does minmatar have an advantage in the tournament? I think the way the tournament is currently structured the answer is obviously. However the tournament is not tranquility pvp, and minmatar advantages that provide an edge in the tournament are usually fleshed out and countered well on tranquility. tldr: pvp != AT -- A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:04:00 - [12] Originally by: Moonmonkey Split weapon systems. Split slot lay out, making for a weaker tank. Split weapon systems? Only one ship springs to mind that uses that, the Typhoon. And with split weapon systems it does some amazing dps. Split slot layout, in a way yes. But it doesn't suffer so much for it. Minmatar ships overall still has some great tankers with eg. the shield boost bonuses on some of them, and the hurricane being one of the more versatile of the ships in their arsenal.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:06:00 - [13] T2 minnie shield tankers have good omni resists, armour tanking Rooks do not nor is a non bonused myrm using AC's very fantastic and it's still doesn't have good omni resists. Most importantly; Huginn kept small stuff away from their scimi making it a lot easier. Leaving huge resists gaps isn't a good idea when facing someone who can select their damage type. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service
Shawshanke	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:06:00 - [14] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Watching AT8, I was thinking: Gallente big weaknesses are short falloff and optimal + limited damage types and vulnerable drones. Caldari big weaknesses are missile travel time, and in many cases dps. Amarr big weaknessess are limited damage types. Minmatar has great optimal, falloff, can mix damage types, primarily uses turrets and has good dps. I could say tracking, but it's not a real big issue. What am I missing here? Maybe it's obvious. But what do you think is minmatar's big weakness(es)? You missed that on average they have faster ships.
Terazuk Amarr THORN Syndicate	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:06:00 - [15] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin ...What am I missing here? Maybe it's obvious. But what do you think is minmatar's big weakness(es)? Other Minmatar ships tbh. Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
Mr M Legion of Illuminated Social Rejects	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:08:00 - [16] The true weakness of minnie ships is that you need more skill points to use them good. The typhoon is a tier 1 battleship but needs more skill points than most tier 3 ships. Eve Tribune\|EVEgeek\|Firebrand Radio
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Moonmonkey Split weapon systems. Split slot lay out, making for a weaker tank. Split weapon systems? Only one ship springs to mind that uses that, the Typhoon. And with split weapon systems it does some amazing dps. Split slot layout, in a way yes. But it doesn't suffer so much for it. Minmatar ships overall still has some great tankers with eg. the shield boost bonuses on some of them, and the hurricane being one of the more versatile of the ships in their arsenal. Bellicose and Recons are very much split. Rupture is kind of split with the 2 utility slots. Tempest is in the same boat as the Ruppy. Minnie ships tend to need a few extra skillpoints to take full advantage of what the ships can do. The solid tanking issues have been somewhat taken care of with the introduction of ships like the BCs and Command ships and the Maelstrom.
Felix Esperium Lysergic Distortions Research and Development	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:10:00 - [18] Originally by: Devil tiger damn near worthless racial e-war type, which isn't a real weakness since all racial except Caldari suck equally bad (which is near OP so everybody uses it thus making it ok). Confirm. rapier, curse and arazu are totally worthless.
Marshiro	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:11:00 - [19] Mini is bad in blobs, and blobs iz everything. mutters something about apocs and gedons
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:11:00 - [20] Originally by: Mr M The true weakness of minnie ships is that you need more skill points to use them good. The typhoon is a tier 1 battleship but needs more skill points than most tier 3 ships. I think this is true compared to maybe Caldari ships. But to Gallente and Amarr? With the exception of maybe the Typhoon. Yes. So a skill-intensive tier-1 BS is it?

Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:14:00 - [21] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Mr M The true weakness of minnie ships is that you need more skill points to use them good. The typhoon is a tier 1 battleship but needs more skill points than most tier 3 ships. I think this is true compared to maybe Caldari ships. But to Gallente and Amarr? With the exception of maybe the Typhoon. Yes. So a skill-intensive tier-1 BS is it? yes, that is it. you figured it all out. minmatar are secretly the win button. IF you aren't a troll, do you read what you type before you post it or is it just one fluid motion of stupid from brain to forums? -- A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game.
Balsak Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:15:00 - [22] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Mr M The true weakness of minnie ships is that you need more skill points to use them good. The typhoon is a tier 1 battleship but needs more skill points than most tier 3 ships. I think this is true compared to maybe Caldari ships. But to Gallente and Amarr? With the exception of maybe the Typhoon. Yes. So a skill-intensive tier-1 BS is it? You need to train drone skills to supplement your dps that you lack in comparison to other races. You need to train up missiles or some other high slot utility modules like a nos / neut to take advantage of those slots. You need to train up both shield and armor skills to take advantage of all the different ships. You need to train up a few extra gunnery skills to make up the lack of tracking and dps. You also need to train up your navigation skills to utilize the speed tanking of Minmatar ships.
Rhinanna Minmatar Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:18:00 - [23] Yeah your missing that you've kinda combined ACs and arties there great optimal -- tech 2 425mm (mid) optimal 2.2km.... ACs and arties have the shortest optimals of all gun types. ACs have a lower max dps than blasters and that damage starts decaying due to the short optimal much quicker than blasters. Lasers can sit at their optimals from ACs and be beyond their optimal+falloffs, in many circumstances be about half-way to falloff again. Arties have the lowest dps of the 3 long ranged weapon types. Unlike lasers, AC users have to get optimal and have to spend 10 seconds to change ammo type which normally isn't worth it mid fight so while you can choose ammo you kinda have to do it before the fight starts. As mentioned the spread slot types make for a weaker tank and the spread weapon systems make for lesser overall dps, also the base ship shield and armour values are more evenly balanced meaning it harder to ramp one of them up for more EHP like the other races can. I agree blasters could use some PvP love but mainly for the boats they are fitted on. The simple fact you have to get up close and Gal armour tanking means slow boats stuck out of their range the entire battle. Best solution I can think of however is changing the ships not the weapons, with a few modifications to the galentte blaster boats to be shield tanked they could be very nasty. As for caldari. The short ranged missiles flight time is negligable at their max range so doesn't really become a great issue and can be compensated for by the pilot by switching to the secondary target a bit early, with long range missiles they have some the of the best DPS there considering that if they can hit it, they are doing max damage. Also the fact the minmatars don't have a really good fleet rrbs is a fairly major hindrance to minmatar pilots as well. And as pointed out, weak sensors. -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag)
Annie Anomie Gallente Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:20:00 - [24] Disadvantages? Turrets can be neutralised with ewar. Lasers have much better optimal. A lot of the advantages of minmatar boats rely on player input and aren't exactly inherent to the hull. Being fit for kiting does you no good at all if the fight starts in scram range.
Akiba Penrose	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin What am I missing here? Maybe it's obvious. But what do you think is minmatar's big weakness(es)? Id say the lack of a tank is Minmatars biggest weakness. The rules, and the shape of the tournament arena, gives the more mobile Minmatar/Angel ships an advantage. In an other arena or with rules that for example allowed more battleships, Minmatar would not be so dominant.
Moonmonkey Amarr Orange Clover	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:30:00 - [26] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Moonmonkey Split weapon systems. Split slot lay out, making for a weaker tank. Split weapon systems? Only one ship springs to mind that uses that, the Typhoon. And with split weapon systems it does some amazing dps. Split slot layout, in a way yes. But it doesn't suffer so much for it. Minmatar ships overall still has some great tankers with eg. the shield boost bonuses on some of them, and the hurricane being one of the more versatile of the ships in their arsenal. Typhoon and Tempest. Cyclone and Hurricane. Claymore. Stabber, scythe, Rupture, Bellicose and Huginn. naglfar If you look though the minmatar ship the bulk of them are split leaning more to turret. Not that many minmatar ships that are all one weapon type. Maelstrom, Sleipnir and Vargur come to mind.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Annie Anomie Disadvantages? Turrets can be neutralised with ewar. Lasers have much better optimal. A lot of the advantages of minmatar boats rely on player input and aren't exactly inherent to the hull. Being fit for kiting does you no good at all if the fight starts in scram range. Minmatar turrets are capless. Optimal is compensated with great falloff + versatile damage types.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:39:00 - [28] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Minmatar turrets are capless. They can still be neutralised, most obviously through the used of tracking disruptors. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:42:00 - [29] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 20/06/2010 22:45:22 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Minmatar turrets are capless. They can still be neutralised, most obviously through the used of tracking disruptors. And hybrids and lasers can't? It's not a racial weakness. edit: Seems to me that the general consensus is Minmatar being somewhat more skill-intensive and maybe tank a bit less (but with shield tankers instead compensate for that through dps). Seems like the balancing could use a slight bit of tweaking.
Annie Anomie Gallente Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2010.06.20 22:44:00 - [30] It's not really the same. There's a fair difference between optimal and falloff. Amarr scorchboats are chuffing terrifying out to longer ranges than their Minmatar equivalents. Battleship scorch is brutal in midrange fights. Zealots are evil. etc. etc. If you're going for range you have to load barrage which limits your damage type too. Now, ACs are almost as good at similar ranges (a hell of a lot better than blasters at any rate) which kinda sums up minmatar with being versatile but it's not true to say they are best at everything.



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