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Chezwick	Posted - 2010.06.21 07:30:00 - [1] New to the game (only a month and 1.2 sp in) and really enjoying the aspects of both races. The dps/tank ability of amarr and the speed and versatility of min. My question is, in the majority of pvp and pve situations, how big a deal are the cap and damage type restrictions for amarr? This seems to be the only aspect that is holding me back from picking a race line of ships.
Chi Quan Bibkor Enterprises	Posted - 2010.06.21 07:49:00 - [2] amarr get better with bigger ships, although the punisher can score some nice kills. in terms of beginner friendliness, nothing beats the rifter, rupture and, to a lesser degree, the thrasher. in the end, it comes down to personal taste and combat style. ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love
zwesypfahl	Posted - 2010.06.21 09:04:00 - [3] I fly amarr and and min. I love the melting power of amarr and the in your face nature of the Cyclone when its got a rack of 220's on it. but like ^^ he said its all preference. just dont fly a drake.
Slade Hoo Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.06.21 11:43:00 - [4] Originally by: zwesypfahl ...and the in your face nature of the Cyclone when its got a rack of 220's on it. Why 220's on a cyclone when you can fit 425's? ------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum!
Malatha	Posted - 2010.06.21 12:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Slade Hoo Why 220's on a cyclone when you can fit 425's? Tracking. What are you wanting to do in Eve Chezwick?
Zilberfrid	Posted - 2010.06.21 12:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Malatha Originally by: Slade Hoo Why 220's on a cyclone when you can fit 425's? Tracking. What are you wanting to do in Eve Chezwick? Why a Cyclone when there is the hurricane?
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.06.21 12:54:00 - [7] Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 21/06/2010 12:55:47 Originally by: Chezwick New to the game (only a month and 1.2 sp in) and really enjoying the aspects of both races. The dps/tank ability of amarr and the speed and versatility of min. My question is, in the majority of pvp and pve situations, how big a deal are the cap and damage type restrictions for amarr? This seems to be the only aspect that is holding me back from picking a race line of ships. Damage type is only an obstacle against Minmatar T2 ships or enemies that has scouted you and fitted EM/Th hardeners. Capacitor is a much bigger threat as most of the worthwhile gunship cap themselves out by just firing guns .. if neuts are around it just happens faster The recent projectile boost made most bonused ships top of their respective classes. The "speed freak" approach is no longer the only or best way to fly Matari as they do the 'brick with guns' as well as Amarr/Gallente. Previous poster asked the most important question: What do you want to do? For BS romps in larger gangs Amarr is hard to beat. For almost everything else you are better served with Matari, big caveat is the very strong Amarr T2 cruiser line-up.
1600 RT	Posted - 2010.06.21 13:09:00 - [8] Originally by: Zilberfrid Originally by: Malatha Originally by: Slade Hoo Why 220's on a cyclone when you can fit 425's? Tracking. What are you wanting to do in Eve Chezwick? Why a Cyclone when there is the hurricane? because when ppl see a hurricane they run away but they consider a cyclone a pretty easy prey
Mona X Caldari C0VEN	Posted - 2010.06.21 14:12:00 - [9] Originally by: zwesypfahl I fly amarr and and min. I love the melting power of amarr and the in your face nature of the Cyclone when its got a rack of 220's on it. You don't know "in ur face" untill you fly megathron.
Miilla	Posted - 2010.06.21 14:49:00 - [10] Edited by: Miilla on 21/06/2010 14:49:20 Pitty Amarr only have 2 DMG types, EVER. EM and Thermal. Minmitar are probalby the most versitile.

The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition	Posted - 2010.06.21 15:04:00 - [11] Lasers are quite cool for PVE(good tracking, lots of optimal), the only thing that is really annoying is fighting Guristas. They are very good for gang based PVP since they got a very good mix out of range, dps and tank. Originally by: Mona X Originally by: zwesypfahl I fly amarr and and min. I love the melting power of amarr and the in your face nature of the Cyclone when its got a rack of 220's on it. You don't know "in ur face" untill you fly megathron. WTB time machine, next stop 2006. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
ghosttr Amarr Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.06.21 15:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 21/06/2010 14:49:20 Pitty Amarr only have 2 DMG types, EVER. EM and Thermal. Minmitar are probalby the most versitile. But amarr guns fire constantly, so you don't have any pauses in your dps. Also you can change ammo very quickly, no 10 second wait Prospecting!
Torpir Lee Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.06.21 15:55:00 - [13] Amarr are the best at some things and bad in others. Minmatar are good at everything.
Chezwick	Posted - 2010.06.21 17:44:00 - [14] Thanks for the replies. Been hard to find current information on this topic, most of the stuff i find from from a couple of years ago. For now, im strictly doing missions, but eventually want to focus on small/med gang and fleet pvp and am going to stick with T2 cruisers, BC's, and BS's.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.06.21 18:09:00 - [15] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 21/06/2010 18:10:03 Originally by: Chezwick Thanks for the replies. Been hard to find current information on this topic, most of the stuff i find from from a couple of years ago. For now, im strictly doing missions, but eventually want to focus on small/med gang and fleet pvp and am going to stick with T2 cruisers, BC's, and BS's. Taking it down the line: - Small/med gang: I prefer Minmatar BCs and Amarr T2 cruisers. Also, faction cruisers. <3 - Fleet PVP: Amarr FTW... it's not even close. - T2 cruisers: I personally prefer Amarr T2 cruisers to Minmatar T2 cruisers. - BCs: I <3 Cyclone and Hurricane. - BSs: I <3 Armageddons and Abaddons. Ok, Phoons are OK too but take a bajillion SP and the Pest is fine if you think of it like an oversized BC instead of a BS. I usually recommend people fly Amarr - especially if they live in Amarr space and can PVE there. If you live in Minmatar space, you WANT to fly Minmatar or Caldari. -Liang Ed: And I LIRL'ed at Torpir's comment that Amarr have ups/downs and Minmatar are just good at everything. -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Chezwick	Posted - 2010.06.22 03:26:00 - [16] Edited by: Chezwick on 22/06/2010 03:28:24 Im missioning for Caldari Navy at the moment. At the BC level, is hurricane and cyclone that much better than the harbinger, for both pve and pvp? If so, explain why please?
Tyrone Bighams Gallente The Silent Expeditionary Force	Posted - 2010.06.22 03:54:00 - [17] well, to answer the questiuon, cap can be an issue for amarr. firing lasers devours cap like nobody's business. that said, amarr is pretty solid in larger ship sizes. minmatar are much much better below the tier 1 BC line (ie cyclone > prophecy) and everything below is usually better with a few exceptions. for pve id go minmatar for selectable damage types hands down. they can get good tanks now too amarr is best when you get into BS and above for pvp. CCP. Hear my prayer from atop your bone strewn tower! Boost Gallente, for they have become free kills in todays fleet warfare due to poor range, ineffective webs, and terrible speed!
Torpir Lee Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.06.22 04:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Liang Nuren Ed: And I LIRL'ed at Torpir's comment that Amarr have ups/downs and Minmatar are just good at everything. How so? The only place where I'd put Minmatar as slightly subpar is with RR BS's(coincidently Amarr's dominant area).
Dusica Amarr	Posted - 2010.06.22 07:01:00 - [19] Minmatar all in all is stronger and has more viable t1 ships amarr fun starts for the most part with t2. Only great t1 ships are amarr battleships and harbinger and maybe punisher. On the other hand minmatar has all classes of t1 cowered and are viable and fun to fly and on t2 they are even more fun... with minmatar you will open half of the skills required to fly angels as well they are FOTM and atm best pirate faction ships to fly. Amarr is more suited for blob warfare and if you like just to melt things down ... you do not have versatility that minmatar provide in terms of speed and adaptive damage dealing. I am so happy when i melt drakes shields with zealot but i wanna go crazy when i shoot armor tanks. All in all if you wanna get into pvp as soon as posible and have a lot of fun fast then minmatar is for you. Eternal Will.
Grim Asse	Posted - 2010.06.22 22:50:00 - [20] Edited by: Grim Asse on 22/06/2010 22:50:44 I can fly both - minmatar and amarr - most of my amarr shipsare currently uninsured and stuck in the hangar when it comes to pvp (especially the low-cost/low Sp ones). Currently I'd absolutely encourage Minmatar training as AC's don't need cap, do tremendous dps at any range compared to lasers and most Amarr ships (at least in small-scale pvp) are only viable if you shield tank them (curse) train for autocannons (arbi/pilgrim) get missile skills (sac) or otherwise do anything non-amarr related in order to be of any use... Concerning mission running they are pretty much the same... If you're in a big, dumb primary-lottery blob in 0.0, you're fine in an Amarr BS - that's the only trick the pony plays...

Headerman	Posted - 2010.06.22 23:14:00 - [21] I think Minmatar would be better, especially shield tanked canes and cyclones with a scimitar around. All those lows for damage mods.. Plus Minmatar have the Sleipnir :)
Halceit	Posted - 2010.06.23 01:17:00 - [22] Everyday Im getting closer and closer to getting all the skills required to pilot a Zealot, but watching a Sleipnir in action is giving my 2nd thoughts.
ZiggyXX Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.23 02:40:00 - [23] I fly both on 2 different accounts but if i had to choose i would go with my Minnie here. I think my Amarr is better suited for gang and fleet warfare, while with my minnie, i can solo or gang up. "In Rust We Trust"
Chezwick	Posted - 2010.06.23 06:24:00 - [24] Edited by: Chezwick on 23/06/2010 06:27:06 Thanks for all the replies and support guys. Basically, im still really torn between which race to go with. Eventually im sure i will crosstrain at some point, but right now im trying to pick a race and stay the course with it. Really, the only thing that is keeping me from going minmitar, for both pve and pvp, is the fact that amarr BS's are better. I will eventually, for sure, put myself into a BS. Are their any arguments for minnie BS over amarr BS? Also, to above poster saying that amarr t2 isnt useful in small gang pvp, is the zealot not a coveted t2 cruiser for small pvp?
Zoe Eladios	Posted - 2010.06.23 06:43:00 - [25] Minmatar battleships are very different from Amarr. Typhoon is a very good ship with good tank and damage output. This is as close as Minmatar get to a great brawler. Downside: So much SP in so many areas are required to master it, that it is almost faster to cross-train into the Amarr battleships that do this role much better. Tempest is not a battleship: It is a battlecruiser. Good speed, nice damage, low tank. This ship is a lot of fun to fly in battlecruiser fleets, but if you are looking for a traditional heavy-tanking + high damage battleship role, this ship is definately not what you are looking for. Maelstrom is an oddball to the Minmatar race because it is so slow. It is a slightly better sniper than a Tempest, but other than that it is rare to see it outside of PvE. Reason for that is its active shield tank: Too many people carry neuts these days. That being said: Crystals + blue pill + faction shield booster and you got yourself quite a capable low sec brawler. In my opinion: If you are looking for traditional battleship combat, Amarr are just plain better in that niche. Also beware training for Minmatar: They are flavor of the month right now, thus nerfbat is coming.
Avernikas	Posted - 2010.06.23 07:01:00 - [26] Edited by: Avernikas on 23/06/2010 07:01:26 Originally by: Zoe Eladios Minmatar battleships are very different from Amarr. Typhoon is a very good ship with good tank and damage output. This is as close as Minmatar get to a great brawler. Downside: So much SP in so many areas are required to master it, that it is almost faster to cross-train into the Amarr battleships that do this role much better. Tempest is not a battleship: It is a battlecruiser. Good speed, nice damage, low tank. This ship is a lot of fun to fly in battlecruiser fleets, but if you are looking for a traditional heavy-tanking + high damage battleship role, this ship is definately not what you are looking for. Maelstrom is an oddball to the Minmatar race because it is so slow. It is a slightly better sniper than a Tempest, but other than that it is rare to see it outside of PvE. Reason for that is its active shield tank: Too many people carry neuts these days. That being said: Crystals + blue pill + faction shield booster and you got yourself quite a capable low sec brawler. In my opinion: If you are looking for traditional battleship combat, Amarr are just plain better in that niche. Also beware training for Minmatar: They are flavor of the month right now, thus nerfbat is coming. Any reasons WHY the tempest has a low tank, and is like a BC? In space no one can hear you scream.
Drykor Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.06.23 21:58:00 - [27] A lot of people underestimate Amarr's ability to do max damage at very high ranges. This was even the case before they were buffed a couple of years ago, the entire reason they were buffed was because people that didn't recognize this range benefit whined and whined until something changed. After that Amarr just dominated since CCP's approach to balancing is using a sledgehammer (either to beat a race up or just handing them a sledgehammer in Amarr's case) Minmatar are more versatile though, but in terms of applying dps pretty much anytime, Amarr with Scorch is tough to beat. Though recent Minmatar changes have put them back on the road again after the speed nerf, Amarr still does way more effective dps. That being said, Minmatar is better at just roaming around and not dying as easily as they can usually get away more easily. But if you want to go the battleship route, go Amarr. I got Amarr BS V a few weeks ago and never looked back to my Minmatar battleship skills. Still personally I'd pick Minmatar because it will take a long time before you become good with battleships and they're not the most fun ships to fly with poor skills.
Reyna Neens	Posted - 2010.06.23 22:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Chezwick Edited by: Chezwick on 23/06/2010 06:27:06 Thanks for all the replies and support guys. Basically, im still really torn between which race to go with. Eventually im sure i will crosstrain at some point, but right now im trying to pick a race and stay the course with it. Really, the only thing that is keeping me from going minmitar, for both pve and pvp, is the fact that amarr BS's are better. I will eventually, for sure, put myself into a BS. Are their any arguments for minnie BS over amarr BS? Also, to above poster saying that amarr t2 isnt useful in small gang pvp, is the zealot not a coveted t2 cruiser for small pvp? If you're still torn, decide what you want to do early on. If you're going to PvP relatively soon, the immediate choice is simple. Train Minmatar Frigate 5 and your choice of tech 2 frigates (intercepter, stealth bomber, assault ship, etc.) and all its supporting skills and get flying (although Rifter is fine if you don't have as much disposable income). If you have access to Minmatar Tech 2 frigates, I can't see a good reason to both with Amarr frigates unless you want some diversity (and it doesn't take that much extra to train anyways). Then, you probably want to get a cruiser or battlecruiser ready so pick whatever race you want as both Hurricane and Harbinger are good PvP choices (and both have very good Tech 2 choices available too). It's quite common for fleets to fly around in battlecruiser or below fleets to limit isk losses and maintain mobility so you'll get more mileage out of skilling to fly these ships rather than going straight for battleships. Eventually, you'll want to get battleships but you should have a much better idea of what you want by then. If you're going to PvE a lot early on, then you might as well rush to battlecruisers and/or battleships to take on level 3 or 4 missions and start making isk. Amarr might be the better choice for that route as it doesn't take as much skill points to do it (although it would be harder to do missions when EM/Thermal damage isn't optimal).
Gavin Neltharek Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.06.23 22:44:00 - [29] Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 21/06/2010 14:49:20 Pitty Amarr only have 2 DMG types, EVER. EM and Thermal. Minmitar are probalby the most versitile. cough Sacrilege cough Both races offer a lot of options and it will entirely depend on what you plan on doing. I fly both and find each ship lineup excels where the other falters. <----------------------------------> Carebears aren't people, they're giant flying piniatas.
Byzan Zwyth Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita	Posted - 2010.06.23 22:50:00 - [30] I fly both and right now for me minmitar wins hands down for two main reasons no cap use on weapons damage type choice and two minor reasons. I like being able to chose between shield and arm talked ships Falloff bonus ships like the vaga & sleip are awesome. Sig removed. Lacks EVE related content. For more information feel free to contact [email protected]. ~Saint



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