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what's up with mass?

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Opertone Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.06.22 07:19:00 - [1] 450 mm autocannon II 200 kg 650 mm autocannon II 2000 kg 800 mm autocannon II 75 kg what does mass actually do? Why does not it add up to total ship mass? Is it broken
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2010.06.22 07:22:00 - [2] The only masses that are tied to any game mechanics are ship and MWD masses. All other item masses are just eye candy. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
Aerilis Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.06.22 07:26:00 - [3] Very fail eye candy it seems....
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.22 07:35:00 - [4] Well, for the uninitiated: Quote: Mass is the Eucharistic celebration in the Latin liturgical rites of the Catholic Church. The term is used also of similar celebrations in Old Catholic Churches, in the Anglo-Catholic tradition of Anglicanism, in Lutheran churches, and in a small number of High Church Methodist parishes. For the celebration of the Eucharist in Eastern Churches, including those in full communion with the Holy See, other terms such as the Divine Liturgy, the Holy Qurbana and the Badarak are normally used. Most Western denominations not in full communion with the Catholic Church also usually prefer terms other than Mass. wiki -------------------------------------- If you don't like my posts, then why waste your time commenting in them? --------------------------------------
Julius Rigel	Posted - 2010.06.22 09:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro The only masses that are tied to any game mechanics are ship and MWD masses. All other item masses are just eye candy. coughplatescough
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.06.22 09:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Julius Rigel Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro The only masses that are tied to any game mechanics are ship and MWD masses. All other item masses are just eye candy. coughplatescough Not quite right. Armor plates have a Mass Addition attribute and not a Mass attribute. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2010.06.22 09:16:00 - [7] what i want to no is why is my corpse 200kg lol thats just the mass to the volume is like 1m3 aswell x My Facebook!
RaTTuS BIG Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.06.22 09:22:00 - [8] Edited by: RaTTuS on 22/06/2010 09:22:28 BUG reports can be found <- over there --
Julius Rigel	Posted - 2010.06.22 09:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: Julius Rigel Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro The only masses that are tied to any game mechanics are ship and MWD masses. All other item masses are just eye candy. coughplatescough Not quite right. Armor plates have a Mass Addition attribute and not a Mass attribute. Oh snap, you're right.
Backho	Posted - 2010.06.22 09:56:00 - [10] battleship. say. 99.6 Kilo tonne addss 250kg of cannons Round it. Still 99.6 Kilo tonne. now add a 10 Kilo tonne plating. Round it. = profit $$$

Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.06.22 10:03:00 - [11] Problem with the mass values is that they are so low. Seriously, a cannon the size of a house has a mass of 200 kg? 200 tonnes would come closer to that. Similar goes with volumes, too, but that's a scaling issue of a entirely different magnitude. Just look at the size of a ship and then imagine the cube the cargo bay represents to it in comparison. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
HowardStern	Posted - 2010.06.22 10:07:00 - [12] It's something to do with the Higgs' Boson.
Backho	Posted - 2010.06.22 10:23:00 - [13] 800mm is....less then a meter. I dont get how you get "as large as a house" Secondly, ship weight includes all ship points and launcher points. the module is just the weight of the 800mm stick to it.
Hrothgar Irrak	Posted - 2010.06.22 10:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Backho 800mm is....less then a meter. I dont get how you get "as large as a house" There's more to an autocannon than the barrel.
Merouk Baas Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.22 10:43:00 - [15] 800mm is the caliber, though. The total dimensions of the cannon itself and its turret housing add up to at least several rooms in a house.
omgevenmoarfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.06.22 10:44:00 - [16] Mass is there so that Angel ships can have less of it and be OP.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.22 11:08:00 - [17] Edited by: Tippia on 22/06/2010 11:09:12 Originally by: Hrothgar Irrak Originally by: Backho 800mm is....less then a meter. I dont get how you get "as large as a house" There's more to an autocannon than the barrel. Eg. the M230 Chain Gun ù a fairly standard 30mm autocannon: Weight55.9 kg Length1,638 mm Width254 mm Height292 mm Some silly and thoroughly inaccurate extrapolating from that to 800mm would give us: Weight1.06 tonnes Length43m Width6.8m Height7.8m àwhich is pretty much a (lightweight) two-story Viking long house, or a fairly thin carbon-fibre barn. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Aldarica Spinal Discipline	Posted - 2010.06.22 11:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Abrazzar Problem with the mass values is that they are so low. Seriously, a cannon the size of a house has a mass of 200 kg? 200 tonnes would come closer to that. Maybe it's not made of steel but... you know, some futuristic ultra light material?
Opertone Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.06.22 11:24:00 - [19] for Angel's sake, CCP, allow ships with shields have less mass than ships with armor plates. it seems to me that ship's mass should be allowed to be reduced at the expense of armor hit points and structure. Ammar - heavy structure and heavy armor, caldari - low mass, big shields, but higher signature without overpowered engines. Minmatar, low mass with oversized thrusters, which makes them extremely fast and sleek. Gallente, higher mass, slower acceleration than other races, higher inertia.
Cathleia	Posted - 2010.06.22 12:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Abrazzar Problem with the mass values is that they are so low. Seriously, a cannon the size of a house has a mass of 200 kg? 200 tonnes would come closer to that. Similar goes with volumes, too, but that's a scaling issue of a entirely different magnitude. Just look at the size of a ship and then imagine the cube the cargo bay represents to it in comparison. We're in outer space. Mass isn't the same as on earth.

Illwill Bill House of Tempers	Posted - 2010.06.22 12:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Cathleia We're in outer space. Mass isn't the same as on earth. I got to hear the explanation for this.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.22 12:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Cathleia We're in outer space. Mass isn't the same as on earth. Ehmà the mass doesn't change just because you're in space. The weight might, and as a result you might have slightly different mass tolerances in your design, but that's about it. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.06.22 12:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Abrazzar Similar goes with volumes, too, but that's a scaling issue of a entirely different magnitude. Just look at the size of a ship and then imagine the cube the cargo bay represents to it in comparison. You have Planck Containers which can fit 3,900 m^3 inside, but take up only 3,000 m^3. It is not unreasonable to think that ship cargo holds operate on a similar principle. Originally by: Opertone it seems to me that ship's mass should be allowed to be reduced at the expense of armor hit points and structure. Ever heard of Nanofiber Internal Structure? It doesn't reduce mass, but it increases ship agility - the only in-game effect of mass. Also, there is one more thing related to ship mass nobody has yet mentioned: wormhole stability.
Doccia Ellicis Caldari Red Federation	Posted - 2010.06.22 13:03:00 - [24] Originally by: Cathleia Originally by: Abrazzar Problem with the mass values is that they are so low. Seriously, a cannon the size of a house has a mass of 200 kg? 200 tonnes would come closer to that. Similar goes with volumes, too, but that's a scaling issue of a entirely different magnitude. Just look at the size of a ship and then imagine the cube the cargo bay represents to it in comparison. We're in outer space. Mass isn't the same as on earth. I lol'ed
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.06.22 14:56:00 - [25] Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Originally by: Cathleia Originally by: Abrazzar Problem with the mass values is that they are so low. Seriously, a cannon the size of a house has a mass of 200 kg? 200 tonnes would come closer to that. Similar goes with volumes, too, but that's a scaling issue of a entirely different magnitude. Just look at the size of a ship and then imagine the cube the cargo bay represents to it in comparison. We're in outer space. Mass isn't the same as on earth. I lol'ed I did to. Loudly enough my co-workers are now confused. --Vel
Kleiner Vance	Posted - 2010.06.22 15:19:00 - [26] Originally by: Cathleia We're in outer space. Mass isn't the same as on earth. Einstein is rolling in his grave and Hawking just twitched in his wheelchair.
Exploding Tukey Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.22 15:44:00 - [27] Edited by: Exploding Tukey on 22/06/2010 15:45:05 Edited by: Exploding Tukey on 22/06/2010 15:44:51 Originally by: Kleiner Vance Originally by: Cathleia We're in outer space. Mass isn't the same as on earth. Einstein is rolling in his grave and Hawking just twitched in his wheelchair. Haha, common misconception of mass vs weight. you have the same mass on the moon but you weight a fraction of how much you do on earth. For this you should be beaten with a ~~dictionary~~ encyclopedia. Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 22/06/2010 11:09:12 Originally by: Hrothgar Irrak Originally by: Backho 800mm is....less then a meter. I dont get how you get "as large as a house" There's more to an autocannon than the barrel. Eg. the M230 Chain Gun ù a fairly standard 30mm autocannon: Weight55.9 kg Length1,638 mm Width254 mm Height292 mm Some silly and thoroughly inaccurate extrapolating from that to 800mm would give us: Weight1.06 tonnes Length43m Width6.8m Height7.8m àwhich is pretty much a (lightweight) two-story Viking long house, or a fairly thin carbon-fibre barn. Are we assuming that the M230 is the epitome of technology and we are never going to figure out how to make a lighter metal then steel? Seriously you are shooting chunks of metal through space, it does not take a lot of recoil since you are not going against air friction or gravity, only accelerating to a decent speed to hit the other ship before it moves. Plus, obviously it's light, how else can tracking be this good. <Signature Type="Clever" Width=100% Height=5 Edible="No" />
Sarina Berghil Minmatar New Zion Judge Advocate	Posted - 2010.06.22 16:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Exploding Tukey Are we assuming that the M230 is the epitome of technology and we are never going to figure out how to make a lighter metal then steel? Seriously you are shooting chunks of metal through space, it does not take a lot of recoil since you are not going against air friction or gravity, only accelerating to a decent speed to hit the other ship before it moves. I guess muzzle velocity can be lower in space, but since the effect of the recoil is not dampened by gravity more mechanical contraptions and thrusters may be needed to keep the ship stable. Exactly how much contraptional matter is needed? The mass attribute in the info window will show.
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2010.06.22 16:22:00 - [29] need a new module that increases your mass when activated... then get the mimmatar to duct tape an infinite point script on it... and create your own wormhole (or crush yourself to death and create a new star?)
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.06.22 17:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Skippermonkey need a new module that increases your mass when activated... then get the mimmatar to duct tape an infinite point script on it... and create your own wormhole (or crush yourself to death and create a new star?) Let's call the module "Yo Momma!". warps off and cloaks -------- All I want is a better mankind.

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.22 17:08:00 - [31] Edited by: Tippia on 22/06/2010 17:08:38 Originally by: Skippermonkey need a new module that increases your mass when activated... then get the mimmatar to duct tape an infinite point script on it... and create your own wormhole (or crush yourself to death and create a new star?) They're called "bait Broadswords". ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Exploding Tukey Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.22 17:17:00 - [32] Originally by: Sarina Berghil Originally by: Exploding Tukey Are we assuming that the M230 is the epitome of technology and we are never going to figure out how to make a lighter metal then steel? Seriously you are shooting chunks of metal through space, it does not take a lot of recoil since you are not going against air friction or gravity, only accelerating to a decent speed to hit the other ship before it moves. I guess muzzle velocity can be lower in space, but since the effect of the recoil is not dampened by gravity more mechanical contraptions and thrusters may be needed to keep the ship stable. Exactly how much contraptional matter is needed? The mass attribute in the info window will show. EMP L mass 1 kg volumevolume 0.025 m¦ packaged a 800mm cannon shooting a projectile the size of your fist? and 1kg will not exactly create much of a recoil for this pea shooter. <Signature Type="Clever" Width=100% Height=5 Edible="No" />
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.22 17:29:00 - [33] Originally by: Exploding Tukey EMP L mass 1 kg volumevolume 0.025 m¦ packaged a 800mm cannon shooting a projectile the size of your fist? and 1kg will not exactly create much of a recoil for this pea shooter. You need to have your fists checked Anyway, 25 litres and 800mm calibre means you're effectively firing a 5cm thin disk ofà whatever it is they're made of. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.06.22 17:31:00 - [34] Originally by: Cathleia We're in outer space. Mass isn't the same as on earth. Actually, mass is exactly the same no matter where you are--it's weight that changes. -----SIGNATURE----- Originally by: CCP Ginger Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Stick Cult Unspoken Autonomy.	Posted - 2010.06.22 17:37:00 - [35] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Exploding Tukey EMP L mass 1 kg volumevolume 0.025 m¦ packaged a 800mm cannon shooting a projectile the size of your fist? and 1kg will not exactly create much of a recoil for this pea shooter. You need to have your fists checked Anyway, 25 litres and 800mm calibre means you're effectively firing a 5cm thin disk ofà whatever it is they're made of. A 5cm disk of EMP of course! Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
digitalwanderer Gallente DF0 incorporated	Posted - 2010.06.22 20:48:00 - [36] Edited by: digitalwanderer on 22/06/2010 20:55:21 Edited by: digitalwanderer on 22/06/2010 20:53:02 Originally by: Merouk Baas 800mm is the caliber, though. The total dimensions of the cannon itself and its turret housing add up to at least several rooms in a house. Alot more than that actually,since if we take some of the largest turrets that were installed in battleships in world war 2,such as the 16" guns on the iowa class,they were 50 caliber turrets,so the lenght of the barrel was 50X longer than the diameter of the round itself,so the turrets were 66.6 feet in lenght(about 20 meters). Apply that basic design rule to an 800mm autocannon,and it ends up being 40 meters in lenght for the barrel itself(about 130 feet long). For an 1400mm artillery,then it gets really wild,as the barrel ends up being 70 meters long(almost 3/4's of a football field),so you end up wondering how the hell can we fit 6 of those turrets in a tempest,or 8 of them in a maelstrom,coming in at 560 meters long for 8 1400mm turrets lined up one behind the other in the maelstrom case..
kingofallgimps Minmatar 11th Gimp Inc	Posted - 2010.06.22 20:54:00 - [37] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro The only masses that are tied to any game mechanics are ship and MWD masses. All other item masses are just eye candy. And hictor bubbles give an enormous mass reduction when active n unscripted
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2010.06.22 22:19:00 - [38] Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Cathleia We're in outer space. Mass isn't the same as on earth. Actually, mass is exactly the same no matter where you are--it's weight that changes. Actually, mass = (rest mass)/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2), so it changes with how fast you're going somewhere. We got warp drives, l2relativity.
Tribunia	Posted - 2010.06.22 22:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Backho 800mm is....less then a meter. I dont get how you get "as large as a house" Secondly, ship weight includes all ship points and launcher points. the module is just the weight of the 800mm stick to it. The 800mm reference is a measurement of the inside crossection or diameter of the barrel of the weapon. A weapon with an 800mm barrel isnt anything like a normal cannon mind you. Here are some specs for it and a link to a vid showing it in action. Video Quote: Type of weaponRailway cannon ManufacturerKrupp Caliber 80 cm Total mass 1,350 t Length47.3 m Width7.1 m Height11.6 m Ammunition High-explosive grenade/Armor-piercing grenade Projectile masses - High-explosive grenade 4.8 t - Armor-piercing grenade 7.1 t Muzzle speeds -High-explosive grenade 820 m/s -Armor-piercing grenade720 m/s Maximum ranges -High-explosive grenade 48 km -Armor-piercing grenade38 km
digitalwanderer Gallente DF0 incorporated	Posted - 2010.06.22 22:49:00 - [40] Edited by: digitalwanderer on 22/06/2010 22:50:39 Originally by: Tribunia Originally by: Backho 800mm is....less then a meter. I dont get how you get "as large as a house" Secondly, ship weight includes all ship points and launcher points. the module is just the weight of the 800mm stick to it. The 800mm reference is a measurement of the inside crossection or diameter of the barrel of the weapon. A weapon with an 800mm barrel isnt anything like a normal cannon mind you. Here are some specs for it and a link to a vid showing it in action. Video Quote: Type of weaponRailway cannon ManufacturerKrupp Caliber 80 cm Total mass 1,350 t Length47.3 m Width7.1 m Height11.6 m Ammunition High-explosive grenade/Armor-piercing grenade Projectile masses - High-explosive grenade 4.8 t - Armor-piercing grenade 7.1 t Muzzle speeds -High-explosive grenade 820 m/s -Armor-piercing grenade720 m/s Maximum ranges -High-explosive grenade 48 km -Armor-piercing grenade38 km They could only fire a couple of rounds per hour though,even though they were manned by 100+ men,so it kinda makes one wonder how eve's 800mm autocannons can fire every 3~4 secs,especially considering that the autocannons can hold 120 rounds and that takes a huge amount of room for the shells alone in terms of storage space,and the loading and unloading mechanism as each shell is fired and removed for the next one,and still have to track their target. Not to mention taking 120 shells from the cargo bay and into the gun,ready to fire,in 10 secs flat,and doing that for 6 to 8 turrets to boot...

Treiq	Posted - 2010.06.22 23:05:00 - [41] Don't know if this has been said already, but maybe the universial weight of things isn't measured on a planet with 1g? After all, our earth has very little to do with new eden.
digitalwanderer Gallente DF0 incorporated	Posted - 2010.06.22 23:45:00 - [42] Originally by: Treiq Don't know if this has been said already, but maybe the universial weight of things isn't measured on a planet with 1g? After all, our earth has very little to do with new eden. Only if there was much lower gravity or even no gravity in the sections of the ship where the guns are located,so it makes it easier to move the massive shells and load them into the guns,but gravity is still very much required in the rest of the ship,otherwise things like bones in a body becoming more fragile,muscles becoming weaker and hearts also not having to work as hard,also making them weaker,are the result....Ask the astronauts onboard the international space station who stay there 6 months and have to train for hours every day to minimize the effects.. While we're at it,since the pod pilot is suspended in fluid,he'd also suffer from muscle atrophy,weaker bones and his circulatory system would also get weaker since he never moves at all,or walks or lifts any heavy objects that force the body to work at all,and what about the immune system too,so it should be fun when incarna comes around and explain how the pilot would even be able to walk after leaving the pod. The body only maintains organs,bones and muscles,even the immune system when they're actually used on a daily basis..
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.06.23 01:45:00 - [43] Originally by: Treiq Don't know if this has been said already, but maybe the universial weight of things isn't measured on a planet with 1g? After all, our earth has very little to do with new eden. And that matters with respect to mass how? Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Scout Ops Red Federation	Posted - 2010.06.23 02:16:00 - [44] its just a game............ but you can find hilarious to think about Expanded Cargohold I and Expanded Cargohold II I mean: - volume = 5m3 - mass = 50kg --- these increase 17.5% or 27.5% cargohold... LMAO? --- velocity penalty 15% or 10%... ROFL?


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