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Parallax Error	Posted - 2004.12.16 01:27:00 - [121] The cost of the war is beside the point to be honest. What we roleplayers want is more or less the ability to say 'I'm willing to be shot at buy this group of players whereever and whenever' The reason why we are in Empire space is so we can fight each other based on the fluff that CCP has given us to work with rather than because I fancy griefing some corp. Some people really ought to get that through their heads: The money is irrelevant (although it can be restricting), the problem is with the mechanics of it.... if you want a corp/alliance of players to be able to shoot you and they want to be shot by you then you shouldn't have to pay for it.
Parallax Error	Posted - 2004.12.16 01:27:00 - [122] The cost of the war is beside the point to be honest. What we roleplayers want is more or less the ability to say 'I'm willing to be shot at buy this group of players whereever and whenever' The reason why we are in Empire space is so we can fight each other based on the fluff that CCP has given us to work with rather than because I fancy griefing some corp. Some people really ought to get that through their heads: The money is irrelevant (although it can be restricting), the problem is with the mechanics of it.... if you want a corp/alliance of players to be able to shoot you and they want to be shot by you then you shouldn't have to pay for it.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.12.16 01:39:00 - [123] I firmly believe that there should be no way for one corporation to avoid a non-consentual war if the other corporation intends to pay fees, but if both sides want to fight, then I see no need for fees.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.12.16 01:39:00 - [124] I firmly believe that there should be no way for one corporation to avoid a non-consentual war if the other corporation intends to pay fees, but if both sides want to fight, then I see no need for fees.
Rthor	Posted - 2004.12.16 01:51:00 - [125] If both sides agree to fight for free then the war decs should be free. Dont get mad and quit just come back in a month when things will get sorted.
Rthor	Posted - 2004.12.16 01:51:00 - [126] If both sides agree to fight for free then the war decs should be free. Dont get mad and quit just come back in a month when things will get sorted.
CmdoColin	Posted - 2004.12.16 02:10:00 - [127] Spot on video - made me laugh something rotten. I'm an ebil CA simple fighter, so have no interest in what happens in empire. If you guys want consentual PvP - why shouldn't you have it - and hopefully not soonÖ, but soon. Concord is surely only there to protect those who don't want to fight. Odd to see some hardcore PvP'er who talk about the good ol' days before concord - seemly saying it should be forced down peoples necks. I really can't can't understand the flames here for what to me is a valid request. I don't think you can call that whining in any shape or form - that video has far too much style. Absolutely brilliant. Hell, I reach into my pocket and send you guys some isk (I'm skint so won't be much) - who does it go to? As an aside... I think it could be seriously interesting to have this feature for all alliances. Would certainly give bragging rights. If one allaince declares war, and the other alliance accepts the challange - then no-one pays. If one side doesn't accept - then the agressor has to pay. Be extremely interesting to see what happens out in 0.0 if they implemented that... Good luck to PIE and the Minmatar lot who's alliance I can't spell. Audita et altera pars
CmdoColin	Posted - 2004.12.16 02:10:00 - [128] Spot on video - made me laugh something rotten. I'm an ebil CA simple fighter, so have no interest in what happens in empire. If you guys want consentual PvP - why shouldn't you have it - and hopefully not soonÖ, but soon. Concord is surely only there to protect those who don't want to fight. Odd to see some hardcore PvP'er who talk about the good ol' days before concord - seemly saying it should be forced down peoples necks. I really can't can't understand the flames here for what to me is a valid request. I don't think you can call that whining in any shape or form - that video has far too much style. Absolutely brilliant. Hell, I reach into my pocket and send you guys some isk (I'm skint so won't be much) - who does it go to? As an aside... I think it could be seriously interesting to have this feature for all alliances. Would certainly give bragging rights. If one allaince declares war, and the other alliance accepts the challange - then no-one pays. If one side doesn't accept - then the agressor has to pay. Be extremely interesting to see what happens out in 0.0 if they implemented that... Good luck to PIE and the Minmatar lot who's alliance I can't spell. Audita et altera pars
Graelyn	Posted - 2004.12.16 02:15:00 - [129] gasp A greifer corp doesn't like the idea! Imagine my surprise and amazement! C'mon man, a few of your people have a somewhat good reputation left. Don't drag them down to your level. Minister - Public Affairs AEGIS MILITIA ATCR Forums
Graelyn	Posted - 2004.12.16 02:15:00 - [130] gasp A greifer corp doesn't like the idea! Imagine my surprise and amazement! C'mon man, a few of your people have a somewhat good reputation left. Don't drag them down to your level. Minister - Public Affairs AEGIS MILITIA ATCR Forums
Archbishop	Posted - 2004.12.16 02:38:00 - [131] Kanix357, Quote: "Why the hell cant you go mine for one hour a week with about 20 guyz and come out with your 50 million." Doing that would only magnify the problem. Why should we support a defective system? Quote: "Ok i know you are empire based, get ur heads out of empire and create friendships with alliances and pay for a damn mining pass." We have corp mining about once a month. Even with three to four weeks notice we're lucky to get 4-5 BS and haulers. We all have real lives. Most of us are "older" players who are professionals or own businesses. We just don't have all that much time and its very difficult to coordinate anything. About the only time we come online as a "mass group" is the weekends when we can get a 20-30 ship fleet together and go find the "evil terrorists". We have friends in 0.0 alliances. Thats not the issue. Quote: Also in a war , war such as yours. You obviously loose ships alot atleast 50mill a week. Individuals may lose ships yes these do not belong to the corp. We insure our ships. Most of us are agent runners. I'm a manufacturer and build things. Still I have a real life too. Between work, school (I'm 40) going thru chemo and dealing with old parents I try to get a few hours a week together to play Eve. This is my "enjoyment" right now. When I can I try to make a profit. I'm comfortable financially. Still I know most of my corp is not. Playing 5-6 hours a week you just don't build up that big cash stockpile. Quote: "How the hell are you gonna cry about 50mill a week, your gonna quit the game becaue you dont want to put some work in lol." Learn your history. PIE was one of the first corporations in Eve. Most of the charter members are still here. Many of us were beta testers. Our corp is regarded as one of the most respected in the Eve community in every poll I've ever seen done here. We put in work rest assured we put in work. Don't think this reputation and comradere just appeared out of nowhere. I joined PIE seven months ago and my only regret is that I didn't join it in beta. Quote: "I just think you need to stop whining and just live with it." We're not whining. We're protesting. We found a problem with the game and we pointed it out. Obviously CCP agrees because they're going to fix it. If we were "whining" they'd ignore us. In fact looking back before Exodus we saw signs Consensual War was an issue. I think its just an oversight they forgot about it. Quote: "Why dont you get ur ceo of his butt and have him look at other avenues to make ur corp money." We have corporate directors and a ceo that would probably be the envy of most corporations in Eve. Quote: "50mill a week is pennies to alot of the players in this game." I know it is. Thats besides the point. This is wrong. We're looking to have it fixed. Period. (CONTINUED) VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Archbishop	Posted - 2004.12.16 02:38:00 - [132] Kanix357, Quote: "Why the hell cant you go mine for one hour a week with about 20 guyz and come out with your 50 million." Doing that would only magnify the problem. Why should we support a defective system? Quote: "Ok i know you are empire based, get ur heads out of empire and create friendships with alliances and pay for a damn mining pass." We have corp mining about once a month. Even with three to four weeks notice we're lucky to get 4-5 BS and haulers. We all have real lives. Most of us are "older" players who are professionals or own businesses. We just don't have all that much time and its very difficult to coordinate anything. About the only time we come online as a "mass group" is the weekends when we can get a 20-30 ship fleet together and go find the "evil terrorists". We have friends in 0.0 alliances. Thats not the issue. Quote: Also in a war , war such as yours. You obviously loose ships alot atleast 50mill a week. Individuals may lose ships yes these do not belong to the corp. We insure our ships. Most of us are agent runners. I'm a manufacturer and build things. Still I have a real life too. Between work, school (I'm 40) going thru chemo and dealing with old parents I try to get a few hours a week together to play Eve. This is my "enjoyment" right now. When I can I try to make a profit. I'm comfortable financially. Still I know most of my corp is not. Playing 5-6 hours a week you just don't build up that big cash stockpile. Quote: "How the hell are you gonna cry about 50mill a week, your gonna quit the game becaue you dont want to put some work in lol." Learn your history. PIE was one of the first corporations in Eve. Most of the charter members are still here. Many of us were beta testers. Our corp is regarded as one of the most respected in the Eve community in every poll I've ever seen done here. We put in work rest assured we put in work. Don't think this reputation and comradere just appeared out of nowhere. I joined PIE seven months ago and my only regret is that I didn't join it in beta. Quote: "I just think you need to stop whining and just live with it." We're not whining. We're protesting. We found a problem with the game and we pointed it out. Obviously CCP agrees because they're going to fix it. If we were "whining" they'd ignore us. In fact looking back before Exodus we saw signs Consensual War was an issue. I think its just an oversight they forgot about it. Quote: "Why dont you get ur ceo of his butt and have him look at other avenues to make ur corp money." We have corporate directors and a ceo that would probably be the envy of most corporations in Eve. Quote: "50mill a week is pennies to alot of the players in this game." I know it is. Thats besides the point. This is wrong. We're looking to have it fixed. Period. (CONTINUED) VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Archbishop	Posted - 2004.12.16 02:39:00 - [133] (Kanix357 Continued) Quote: "1. Buy a hunting pass (usually pretty cheap) 2. Buy a mining pass (Usually well worht the cost) 3. Build ammunition and ships and so forth and make money selling them on the market. 4. Buy zydrine and megacyte around 0.0 systems and resell them in emipre for a nice profit." We have a Stain Hunting Pass and many corp members use it from time to time. We dont have any mining passes (I've never heard of them you could tell us who sells them) and we usually don't have the numbers for something like that anyway. As for building yes we have builders in the CVA. We have more then a few billionares as well. But its individual money not corp money. We have a corporate tax in PIE (more a fee) that we pay weekly to maintain things like offices and such. But overall the money we make is our own. We're not a socialist company. An example for you. Recently the alliance fee deal was borked and it only cost a few isk. One morning our CEO logged on to find himself VERY in the negative. It seems CCP took out 1b isk from his personal wallet. So we took up a collection and reimbursed him. Some gave more then others. But it was a strain. We don't have a 10b bank account just sitting there. Now our alliance is basically four corporations. Two are very small and two big. We did the alliance fee based on membership as the small corps couldn't afford 250m. Now you know how it is in corporations. PIE does an excellent job "thinning the roster" frequently. We wont show 200 members with 160 inactive. Still with 70 members there are a "core" that are on often and a "fringe" that are not. The "fringe" isn't financially able to pay 50m a week and why should the "core" do all the work? Quote: "SUCK IT UP LADIES, THIS IS HOW ITS GONNA BE." Actually its not going to be like this. Look back a page at Kierons post. They're going to fix it. :) Quote: "Look at my name and corp, and look at where im based in the game." Ah so your in 0.0 and have access to all the great stuff. I also know seeing as how your in 0.0 you can shoot everyone and NOT have to declare war. Maybe all the 0.0 alliances should pay a fee everytime they have combat? Thats what you expect us to have? Quote: "I see your point, but also i see your laziness." What laziness? We work very hard. The point is this is wrong. You don't work hard to support something that is wrong. You try and change it. Thats what we're doing. Conclusion: The real issue is fairness. Alliances in 0.0 can get away with "war" without declaring it. Because of the game mechanics in 0.0 space they can shoot their "enemy" (and everyone else) without Concord intervention. On the other hand we of the empire roleplay community MUST have a declared war because Concord requries it. Since we play the Eve storyline set forth by CCP we play in empire. We have plenty of risk (or we did with 24 wars pre-exodus). Now we have two wars and have lost several declarations already because corps just couldn't afford to fight with the fee. That's wrong considering this is a consensual war. Its just plain wrong. Archbishop PIE CORPORATION VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Archbishop	Posted - 2004.12.16 02:39:00 - [134] (Kanix357 Continued) Quote: "1. Buy a hunting pass (usually pretty cheap) 2. Buy a mining pass (Usually well worht the cost) 3. Build ammunition and ships and so forth and make money selling them on the market. 4. Buy zydrine and megacyte around 0.0 systems and resell them in emipre for a nice profit." We have a Stain Hunting Pass and many corp members use it from time to time. We dont have any mining passes (I've never heard of them you could tell us who sells them) and we usually don't have the numbers for something like that anyway. As for building yes we have builders in the CVA. We have more then a few billionares as well. But its individual money not corp money. We have a corporate tax in PIE (more a fee) that we pay weekly to maintain things like offices and such. But overall the money we make is our own. We're not a socialist company. An example for you. Recently the alliance fee deal was borked and it only cost a few isk. One morning our CEO logged on to find himself VERY in the negative. It seems CCP took out 1b isk from his personal wallet. So we took up a collection and reimbursed him. Some gave more then others. But it was a strain. We don't have a 10b bank account just sitting there. Now our alliance is basically four corporations. Two are very small and two big. We did the alliance fee based on membership as the small corps couldn't afford 250m. Now you know how it is in corporations. PIE does an excellent job "thinning the roster" frequently. We wont show 200 members with 160 inactive. Still with 70 members there are a "core" that are on often and a "fringe" that are not. The "fringe" isn't financially able to pay 50m a week and why should the "core" do all the work? Quote: "SUCK IT UP LADIES, THIS IS HOW ITS GONNA BE." Actually its not going to be like this. Look back a page at Kierons post. They're going to fix it. :) Quote: "Look at my name and corp, and look at where im based in the game." Ah so your in 0.0 and have access to all the great stuff. I also know seeing as how your in 0.0 you can shoot everyone and NOT have to declare war. Maybe all the 0.0 alliances should pay a fee everytime they have combat? Thats what you expect us to have? Quote: "I see your point, but also i see your laziness." What laziness? We work very hard. The point is this is wrong. You don't work hard to support something that is wrong. You try and change it. Thats what we're doing. Conclusion: The real issue is fairness. Alliances in 0.0 can get away with "war" without declaring it. Because of the game mechanics in 0.0 space they can shoot their "enemy" (and everyone else) without Concord intervention. On the other hand we of the empire roleplay community MUST have a declared war because Concord requries it. Since we play the Eve storyline set forth by CCP we play in empire. We have plenty of risk (or we did with 24 wars pre-exodus). Now we have two wars and have lost several declarations already because corps just couldn't afford to fight with the fee. That's wrong considering this is a consensual war. Its just plain wrong. Archbishop PIE CORPORATION VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Karoth Tyu	Posted - 2004.12.16 04:50:00 - [135] :/ Next time... more video, less words. Felt like I was reading a thread with music and moving pictures in the background.
Karoth Tyu	Posted - 2004.12.16 04:50:00 - [136] :/ Next time... more video, less words. Felt like I was reading a thread with music and moving pictures in the background.
Clythe	Posted - 2004.12.16 05:12:00 - [137] Signed Fix the war system. I and my friends will wish to join any mass protest by battleship mining the 1.0 systems, and if not heeded, perhaps by a mass "exodus" through the cancelling of accounts.
Clythe	Posted - 2004.12.16 05:12:00 - [138] Signed Fix the war system. I and my friends will wish to join any mass protest by battleship mining the 1.0 systems, and if not heeded, perhaps by a mass "exodus" through the cancelling of accounts.
MrBinary	Posted - 2004.12.16 05:48:00 - [139] Kanix357, First of all, you're an idiot. Each and every one of your replies reeks of attitude, and no substance. Second...folks RolePlaying shouldn't...and won't be mandated to travel to 0.0 as you suggest. Tough luck. The Universe does not revolve around 0.0. CCP is doing the right thing here. Third...why do you even care about the RolePlaying going on in Empire? Go back to what you were doing. Regards, MrBinary "[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary"
MrBinary	Posted - 2004.12.16 05:48:00 - [140] Kanix357, First of all, you're an idiot. Each and every one of your replies reeks of attitude, and no substance. Second...folks RolePlaying shouldn't...and won't be mandated to travel to 0.0 as you suggest. Tough luck. The Universe does not revolve around 0.0. CCP is doing the right thing here. Third...why do you even care about the RolePlaying going on in Empire? Go back to what you were doing. Regards, MrBinary "[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary"
Sarkos	Posted - 2004.12.16 06:08:00 - [141] Archbishop, the movie is Brilliant! Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
Sarkos	Posted - 2004.12.16 06:08:00 - [142] Archbishop, the movie is Brilliant! Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
YuuKnow	Posted - 2004.12.16 06:55:00 - [143] that was the most boring video i've ever seen
YuuKnow	Posted - 2004.12.16 06:55:00 - [144] that was the most boring video i've ever seen
Dsanta	Posted - 2004.12.16 07:34:00 - [145] i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. ----------------------------------------------- Linkage
Dsanta	Posted - 2004.12.16 07:34:00 - [146] i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. ----------------------------------------------- Linkage
Dsanta	Posted - 2004.12.16 07:34:00 - [147] i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. ----------------------------------------------- Linkage
Dsanta	Posted - 2004.12.16 07:34:00 - [148] i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. ----------------------------------------------- Linkage
Riddari	Posted - 2004.12.16 08:09:00 - [149] Originally by: Dsanta i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. I'm just wondering whose alt you are... one of Rod's thread stoppers? ¼©¼ a history
Riddari	Posted - 2004.12.16 08:09:00 - [150] Originally by: Dsanta i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. I'm just wondering whose alt you are... one of Rod's thread stoppers? ¼©¼ a history

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