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CmdrRat	Posted - 2004.12.16 08:25:00 - [151] Everyone is missing the point of the video. What I really want to know is, what is the name of the first song? ________________________________________________ Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism and communism, War Has Never Solved Anything
CmdrRat	Posted - 2004.12.16 08:25:00 - [152] Everyone is missing the point of the video. What I really want to know is, what is the name of the first song? ________________________________________________ Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism and communism, War Has Never Solved Anything
Alexander Rahl	Posted - 2004.12.16 08:27:00 - [153] Originally by: Dsanta i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. Well all I will say is ha bloody ha. fighting in 0.0 whilst being fun is not a patch on fighting in an empire war. You speak of things you know nothing about Anyone who has done both will agree with me that empire wars are far far better than 0.0 and also much harder to fight.... ----/ / /-----<[]>-----\ \ \---- Head of House Rahl Warleader of the Rahl Clans "Death and Glory, Honour with Courage, Fury and Vengeance" - Chronicles of Rahl.
Alexander Rahl	Posted - 2004.12.16 08:27:00 - [154] Originally by: Dsanta i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. Well all I will say is ha bloody ha. fighting in 0.0 whilst being fun is not a patch on fighting in an empire war. You speak of things you know nothing about Anyone who has done both will agree with me that empire wars are far far better than 0.0 and also much harder to fight.... ----/ / /-----<[]>-----\ \ \---- Head of House Rahl Warleader of the Rahl Clans "Death and Glory, Honour with Courage, Fury and Vengeance" - Chronicles of Rahl.
Dsanta	Posted - 2004.12.16 08:29:00 - [155] Originally by: Riddari Originally by: Dsanta i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. I'm just wondering whose alt you are... one of Rod's thread stoppers? im not an alt, im the real deal, i dont post with alts. ----------------------------------------------- Linkage
Dsanta	Posted - 2004.12.16 08:29:00 - [156] Originally by: Riddari Originally by: Dsanta i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. I'm just wondering whose alt you are... one of Rod's thread stoppers? im not an alt, im the real deal, i dont post with alts. ----------------------------------------------- Linkage
Matt Ivresse	Posted - 2004.12.16 08:59:00 - [157] You honestly think they're going to bring their fight to 0.0 with the way the chokepoints are ganked? They'd hardly be able to even start their fights without a bunch of annoying pirate idiots blowing them up and ruining it. Now stop making such idiotic statements. --------------------------- DUI Racing - The PREMIER Racing corporation for Racing fans out there in the world of
Matt Ivresse	Posted - 2004.12.16 08:59:00 - [158] You honestly think they're going to bring their fight to 0.0 with the way the chokepoints are ganked? They'd hardly be able to even start their fights without a bunch of annoying pirate idiots blowing them up and ruining it. Now stop making such idiotic statements. --------------------------- DUI Racing - The PREMIER Racing corporation for Racing fans out there in the world of
mahhy	Posted - 2004.12.16 10:09:00 - [159] Originally by: Dsanta i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. Why would an RP alliance/corp, playing one of the sides in the Amarr/Minnie struggle go to unclaimed, non-empire, non-aligned space to fight? The CVA are "pro-Amarr" and as such SHOULD fight in and around the Amarr Empire. They SHOULD raid into Minnie space to crush those ebil terrorists. They should form up massive fleets in Amarr for the defence of their Empire. The Ushra'khaan (sp?) are minnie terrorists and as such SHOULD fight in and around the Minmatar Republic. They should raid slave convoys in the Amarr Empire, etc, etc. 0.0 space has absolutely nothing to do with this. These people want to be able to RP in this game. The roles they've chosen mean they are more or less restricted to Empire space with very little leeway. Let 'em have free wars ffs.
mahhy	Posted - 2004.12.16 10:09:00 - [160] Originally by: Dsanta i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. Why would an RP alliance/corp, playing one of the sides in the Amarr/Minnie struggle go to unclaimed, non-empire, non-aligned space to fight? The CVA are "pro-Amarr" and as such SHOULD fight in and around the Amarr Empire. They SHOULD raid into Minnie space to crush those ebil terrorists. They should form up massive fleets in Amarr for the defence of their Empire. The Ushra'khaan (sp?) are minnie terrorists and as such SHOULD fight in and around the Minmatar Republic. They should raid slave convoys in the Amarr Empire, etc, etc. 0.0 space has absolutely nothing to do with this. These people want to be able to RP in this game. The roles they've chosen mean they are more or less restricted to Empire space with very little leeway. Let 'em have free wars ffs.
CmdoColin	Posted - 2004.12.16 11:01:00 - [161] Interesting to see that all of those with the alliance tags here are posting saying, yes this is a good thing. Again out of interest; Evolution isn't in a formal post exodus alliance is it? As such why should they care what formal post exodus alliances are doing? Maybe I'm just being awkward, but as I said eariler: /signed Audita et altera pars
CmdoColin	Posted - 2004.12.16 11:01:00 - [162] Interesting to see that all of those with the alliance tags here are posting saying, yes this is a good thing. Again out of interest; Evolution isn't in a formal post exodus alliance is it? As such why should they care what formal post exodus alliances are doing? Maybe I'm just being awkward, but as I said eariler: /signed Audita et altera pars
Def Antares	Posted - 2004.12.16 11:37:00 - [163] "VELDSPAR!" lol really made me laugh =) very nice vid
Def Antares	Posted - 2004.12.16 11:37:00 - [164] "VELDSPAR!" lol really made me laugh =) very nice vid
DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:12:00 - [165] You complaining about possible alliance war which will cost you 50million a week? Try to compare it to the ship losses which could happen....100mio's a BS, 50 Mios an assault cruiser. The cost for an declared war by itself is peanuts against the losses you could do to the other war party....or the losses you will have while fighting Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:12:00 - [166] You complaining about possible alliance war which will cost you 50million a week? Try to compare it to the ship losses which could happen....100mio's a BS, 50 Mios an assault cruiser. The cost for an declared war by itself is peanuts against the losses you could do to the other war party....or the losses you will have while fighting Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
Jebidus Skari	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:15:00 - [167] Edited by: Jebidus Skari on 16/12/2004 14:16:21 Originally by: Dsanta Originally by: Riddari Originally by: Dsanta i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. I'm just wondering whose alt you are... one of Rod's thread stoppers? im not an alt, im the real deal, i dont post with alts. Just don't post at all, kthnx... I can't believe how many people in this threat can't see the blinding obvious, I can only assume they have severe learning difficulties or they're enjoying being trolls EDIT: and it's great that the Dev's have answered and it's going to be implemented next year
Jebidus Skari	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:15:00 - [168] Edited by: Jebidus Skari on 16/12/2004 14:16:21 Originally by: Dsanta Originally by: Riddari Originally by: Dsanta i say go to 0.0 and fight there, u dont need to declare war there. WOW!!! problem solved, now stop complaining. I'm just wondering whose alt you are... one of Rod's thread stoppers? im not an alt, im the real deal, i dont post with alts. Just don't post at all, kthnx... I can't believe how many people in this threat can't see the blinding obvious, I can only assume they have severe learning difficulties or they're enjoying being trolls EDIT: and it's great that the Dev's have answered and it's going to be implemented next year
Riddari	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:18:00 - [169] Originally by: DeerHunter GE You complaining about possible alliance war which will cost you 50million a week? Try to compare it to the ship losses which could happen....100mio's a BS, 50 Mios an assault cruiser. The cost for an declared war by itself is peanuts against the losses you could do to the other war party....or the losses you will have while fighting They aren't talking about ship losses, they have plenty of them and know it and foot the bills for them. The charge however is a direct hindrance towards consentual Empire storyline gameplay. CCP have admitted it and so are instituting (later than they should have, this was obvious long ago) the mutual declarations. Why you or other people jump in here and say "you punks are crybabies, just pay up" are clearly not on the same line as CCP so just chill out and go count your pennies. I'm myself obviously in a 0.0 alliance, XETIC are paying 300m isk per week to keep the war against CA going. However, that is our choice and it's not consentual war so we don't mind paying. Plus we have the big spawns and the good ore to make us money, just like any other 0.0 alliance. The Empire players don't and are operating on a different plane to us, CVA have ONLY Amarr characters, so they are the only single-race alliance in the game. PIE only fly Amarr ships. These are self-imposed rules they have taken upon themselves to fit better into the EVE world that the DEVS created before they wrote the eve.exe. It's a style of gameplay CCP has advertised a lot but not backed up, it's not your style of gameplay so butt out and do yours without nagging others for their choices. ¼©¼ a history
Riddari	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:18:00 - [170] Originally by: DeerHunter GE You complaining about possible alliance war which will cost you 50million a week? Try to compare it to the ship losses which could happen....100mio's a BS, 50 Mios an assault cruiser. The cost for an declared war by itself is peanuts against the losses you could do to the other war party....or the losses you will have while fighting They aren't talking about ship losses, they have plenty of them and know it and foot the bills for them. The charge however is a direct hindrance towards consentual Empire storyline gameplay. CCP have admitted it and so are instituting (later than they should have, this was obvious long ago) the mutual declarations. Why you or other people jump in here and say "you punks are crybabies, just pay up" are clearly not on the same line as CCP so just chill out and go count your pennies. I'm myself obviously in a 0.0 alliance, XETIC are paying 300m isk per week to keep the war against CA going. However, that is our choice and it's not consentual war so we don't mind paying. Plus we have the big spawns and the good ore to make us money, just like any other 0.0 alliance. The Empire players don't and are operating on a different plane to us, CVA have ONLY Amarr characters, so they are the only single-race alliance in the game. PIE only fly Amarr ships. These are self-imposed rules they have taken upon themselves to fit better into the EVE world that the DEVS created before they wrote the eve.exe. It's a style of gameplay CCP has advertised a lot but not backed up, it's not your style of gameplay so butt out and do yours without nagging others for their choices. ¼©¼ a history
Hardin	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:21:00 - [171] Thanks Jebidus. Lets get this back on topic. EVE is a PvP game. If two corporations or two alliances WANT to shoot each other then a charge is ridiculous. The entire reason for the charge in the firstplace is to avoid griefing. Its objective is to ensure tha corps have to pay some penalty for declaring on those who do not wish to fight. However when both sides want to fight what is the problem? I am glad that CCP have said they are reviewing this and look forward to it being introduced into the game asap. In fact all PvPers (and not just roleplayers) should too...
Hardin	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:21:00 - [172] Thanks Jebidus. Lets get this back on topic. EVE is a PvP game. If two corporations or two alliances WANT to shoot each other then a charge is ridiculous. The entire reason for the charge in the firstplace is to avoid griefing. Its objective is to ensure tha corps have to pay some penalty for declaring on those who do not wish to fight. However when both sides want to fight what is the problem? I am glad that CCP have said they are reviewing this and look forward to it being introduced into the game asap. In fact all PvPers (and not just roleplayers) should too...
Eddie Gordo	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:26:00 - [173] Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 16/12/2004 14:28:24 I dont know about the CVA, but I know that the 1bil startup cost certainly put a severe dent in the MM wallet. We are not a rich corp, most of our members make isk by running agent missions and the occasional mining op. Sometimes we will head for 0.0 and do some rat hunting (passes are for pussies ) but its not something we do often. The corp itself doesnt have much isk, our members look after their own financial situations. Right now we ARE paying for the war, but its a strain that I dont think we should have to bare. Concord is only in empire space to stop people griefing. The bigger war costs have been introduced to further reduce the likelyhood of a corp getting "griefed". Ignoring any roleplay issues, if two corps/alliances WANT to spend all their hard earned isk blowing each other up they should be allowed to. There is no victim. As Archbishop has already said, the concentual war was mentioned in pre-exodus patchnotes and it was more than likely just overlooked. Edit : hmm 2 posts went up in the time it took to composte that Instas??
Eddie Gordo	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:26:00 - [174] Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 16/12/2004 14:28:24 I dont know about the CVA, but I know that the 1bil startup cost certainly put a severe dent in the MM wallet. We are not a rich corp, most of our members make isk by running agent missions and the occasional mining op. Sometimes we will head for 0.0 and do some rat hunting (passes are for pussies ) but its not something we do often. The corp itself doesnt have much isk, our members look after their own financial situations. Right now we ARE paying for the war, but its a strain that I dont think we should have to bare. Concord is only in empire space to stop people griefing. The bigger war costs have been introduced to further reduce the likelyhood of a corp getting "griefed". Ignoring any roleplay issues, if two corps/alliances WANT to spend all their hard earned isk blowing each other up they should be allowed to. There is no victim. As Archbishop has already said, the concentual war was mentioned in pre-exodus patchnotes and it was more than likely just overlooked. Edit : hmm 2 posts went up in the time it took to composte that Instas??
Falzone	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:41:00 - [175] Go archbishop I support your cause 100% and ask ccp along with you on behalf of Mercenary forces to bring back affordable wars both alliance and individual corp wars. And great job on the video i was laughing so hard for about 30 secs i started choking.
Falzone	Posted - 2004.12.16 14:41:00 - [176] Go archbishop I support your cause 100% and ask ccp along with you on behalf of Mercenary forces to bring back affordable wars both alliance and individual corp wars. And great job on the video i was laughing so hard for about 30 secs i started choking.
Pacal Balan	Posted - 2004.12.16 15:52:00 - [177] Most of this has been said.. but hell IÆm going to post it anyway * smile * This is all very interesting, it is understandable from ôbothö sides of the fence, with that said, how about this to think on CCP (whom evers listening). Why not just have the RP groups that fight for their empires sign up to some form of ôEmpire subsidyö. Warring corps ôwithinö an empire are subsidised for fighting in a RP format. We all understand already that the factions are not meant to be in a total state of war but isnÆt it more like the ôcold warö though? Within a ôcold-warö the armies/forces have been known to have been backed by their said ôstatesö. I have always ôpuzzledö on why groups that fight for the Empires have not had benefits of some sort. I mean the Amarr; Minmatar states are hardly ôpoorö so why is this not ôusedö in some fashion to aid the whole RP side of the game? It is quite simple why this 50mil per week doesnÆt work for the RP crowd, for that to work it means the RP crowd gets drawn into the 0.0 power-gamers area. The only option there is then doing what? Calling a cease-fire to all warring factions? Then have them focus on their own local area of 0.0 space so that they can try and clear it out? DoesnÆt seem possible to me taking that the 0.0 alliances have now all dug in with their millions of isk? Stillà Then again, if you look at the ômapö at any one night you can see that the ônumbersö of pilots in anyone empire/state vastly out number those within the 0.0 systems, still as we all knowà those within 0.0 are hardened and can handle themselves in PvP. Do those of the CVA or UshraÆ Khan feel they can ôgroup with othersö and then have the strength and ability to challenge one of their empires 0.0 boarder alliances? Is this any less in RP warring, taking on rogues on the boarders of their states? In the long run IÆd say the core empire RP groups need to rally and focus on digging themselves a 0.0 money pot hole. Its all work, but the RP groups need to wake up to the long term part of the game and not just see it all as a pile of instant TV gratification. This may mean cutting the current on going wars or leaving them to brief encounters while they focus on the bigger and longer term picture. Too much like hard work? IÆd say that the boarders between RP and even power gaming need to be bridged in a way, the RP crowd needs to up its levels a tadà and take its RP interaction to higher levels. What do you lot think hmm?
Pacal Balan	Posted - 2004.12.16 15:52:00 - [178] Most of this has been said.. but hell IÆm going to post it anyway * smile * This is all very interesting, it is understandable from ôbothö sides of the fence, with that said, how about this to think on CCP (whom evers listening). Why not just have the RP groups that fight for their empires sign up to some form of ôEmpire subsidyö. Warring corps ôwithinö an empire are subsidised for fighting in a RP format. We all understand already that the factions are not meant to be in a total state of war but isnÆt it more like the ôcold warö though? Within a ôcold-warö the armies/forces have been known to have been backed by their said ôstatesö. I have always ôpuzzledö on why groups that fight for the Empires have not had benefits of some sort. I mean the Amarr; Minmatar states are hardly ôpoorö so why is this not ôusedö in some fashion to aid the whole RP side of the game? It is quite simple why this 50mil per week doesnÆt work for the RP crowd, for that to work it means the RP crowd gets drawn into the 0.0 power-gamers area. The only option there is then doing what? Calling a cease-fire to all warring factions? Then have them focus on their own local area of 0.0 space so that they can try and clear it out? DoesnÆt seem possible to me taking that the 0.0 alliances have now all dug in with their millions of isk? Stillà Then again, if you look at the ômapö at any one night you can see that the ônumbersö of pilots in anyone empire/state vastly out number those within the 0.0 systems, still as we all knowà those within 0.0 are hardened and can handle themselves in PvP. Do those of the CVA or UshraÆ Khan feel they can ôgroup with othersö and then have the strength and ability to challenge one of their empires 0.0 boarder alliances? Is this any less in RP warring, taking on rogues on the boarders of their states? In the long run IÆd say the core empire RP groups need to rally and focus on digging themselves a 0.0 money pot hole. Its all work, but the RP groups need to wake up to the long term part of the game and not just see it all as a pile of instant TV gratification. This may mean cutting the current on going wars or leaving them to brief encounters while they focus on the bigger and longer term picture. Too much like hard work? IÆd say that the boarders between RP and even power gaming need to be bridged in a way, the RP crowd needs to up its levels a tadà and take its RP interaction to higher levels. What do you lot think hmm?
Marcus Grisbius	Posted - 2004.12.16 16:41:00 - [179] I think having the cost be there for the war in RP sense is good. It seems that the situation is that you want to be able to shoot people and not have to pay any costs for running a war. I'll try to keep my thoughts on the issue with RP wars in mind. Like others have said, some more rudely than others, 50 mil is not a whole lot a week. If you have members that are more financially capable than others that normal with every corp, you may need to restructure some to be able to get that money out of your members. To say you can stand together to shoot, but you can't stand together to support the war doesnt make sense. Another idea is that if you are both wanting to fight, split the cost of the war. If it's 50 mil a week to fight, have one side put up half and the other side front the other half. That makes it a lot easier per week. Having to produce and support your wars also adds the concept of 'soft' targets to the mix. It adds a little more realism to the mix when you can intercept their convoys or mining ops and disrupt their supply chain. Another idea, for the devs to consider, would be to tie in the standing with Empires to declare allegiance to such empire. In that case you would have an alliance that was sponsored by an existing empire rather than creating a completely autonomous nation-state. The subjugated nation-state doesnt fit in with the storyline or to the RP nature that your sides have adopted. You would have to maintain high enough standings with the empire, which i'm sure would not be a problem for those in discussion right now, to be allied to the empire. Maybe the empire would foot the cost of the war in exchange and tax the members a nominal fee to be allied to them. I mean, the Gallenteans are going out looking for pilots based on standing to represent them, I'm sure the standings could be used to create alliegiances to Empires. Under the current state of alliances, I dont think that consentual wars should be negated in price. Corporations should have some means of funding and do something productive. From a RP perspective, I dont think CONCORD really wants the empires to be at war with each other. It's a fragile peace between the empires and they want to maintain it. It goes beyond what the fundamentalist Amarrians and the radical Minmatars believe. There are the rest of the governments that are working in line with CONCORD. Why would they let aggresive members of both parties disrupt that peace without a price. I think you really need to look at the bigger picture with this. Organize better, fund yourselves more effectively, and roleplay the whole picture rather than just the shoot-them-down parts. I understand the time constraints some of your members have, but you also have to realize that every corp has that. I admire that you guys are attempting to be a part of the storyline and using the background in your gameplay. I hope you will continue doing it and hope that a plausible system for you to continue what you're doing is worked out. Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn
Marcus Grisbius	Posted - 2004.12.16 16:41:00 - [180] I think having the cost be there for the war in RP sense is good. It seems that the situation is that you want to be able to shoot people and not have to pay any costs for running a war. I'll try to keep my thoughts on the issue with RP wars in mind. Like others have said, some more rudely than others, 50 mil is not a whole lot a week. If you have members that are more financially capable than others that normal with every corp, you may need to restructure some to be able to get that money out of your members. To say you can stand together to shoot, but you can't stand together to support the war doesnt make sense. Another idea is that if you are both wanting to fight, split the cost of the war. If it's 50 mil a week to fight, have one side put up half and the other side front the other half. That makes it a lot easier per week. Having to produce and support your wars also adds the concept of 'soft' targets to the mix. It adds a little more realism to the mix when you can intercept their convoys or mining ops and disrupt their supply chain. Another idea, for the devs to consider, would be to tie in the standing with Empires to declare allegiance to such empire. In that case you would have an alliance that was sponsored by an existing empire rather than creating a completely autonomous nation-state. The subjugated nation-state doesnt fit in with the storyline or to the RP nature that your sides have adopted. You would have to maintain high enough standings with the empire, which i'm sure would not be a problem for those in discussion right now, to be allied to the empire. Maybe the empire would foot the cost of the war in exchange and tax the members a nominal fee to be allied to them. I mean, the Gallenteans are going out looking for pilots based on standing to represent them, I'm sure the standings could be used to create alliegiances to Empires. Under the current state of alliances, I dont think that consentual wars should be negated in price. Corporations should have some means of funding and do something productive. From a RP perspective, I dont think CONCORD really wants the empires to be at war with each other. It's a fragile peace between the empires and they want to maintain it. It goes beyond what the fundamentalist Amarrians and the radical Minmatars believe. There are the rest of the governments that are working in line with CONCORD. Why would they let aggresive members of both parties disrupt that peace without a price. I think you really need to look at the bigger picture with this. Organize better, fund yourselves more effectively, and roleplay the whole picture rather than just the shoot-them-down parts. I understand the time constraints some of your members have, but you also have to realize that every corp has that. I admire that you guys are attempting to be a part of the storyline and using the background in your gameplay. I hope you will continue doing it and hope that a plausible system for you to continue what you're doing is worked out. Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn

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