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Ix Forres
Caldari
Vanguard Frontiers
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.07.05 21:43:00 -
[1]
Here is my proposal to the CSM.
In July 2009, we were given an informative dev blog about the then COSMOS and now EVE Gate. Amongst the information in this blog is this line:
 Quote:
Indeed, we plan to add as many of the new features as we can to the API to help you make even more cool stuff.
So far, the EVE Online API has seen very few additions since that time. We've still got titles-only for EVE mails, nothing for PI, huge numbers of bugs and quirks in the way the API functions, and recently we've seen even more comments from devs that strange behavior is becoming more common; skillpoint oddities and the like.
Since the release of EVE Gate, we've had no support from the devs about the API or accessing any features of EVE Gate programmatically. We've had threats of bans for crawling/scraping, though the EULA and TOS have not been updated to reflect this. And we've had no response to any queries we've openly put to the devs on the matter of new API features (for example, full EVE mail access - we only get titles in the API) and fixing old bugs. We've had one or two fixes in the last few expansions- that's all.
I feel that CCP has taken the wrong approach with EVE Gate and would like them to reconsider the approach they are taking, and potentially shift it. Social networks like Facebook thrive on integration and applications. EVE Gate offers no facility for either of these, instead limiting people to only doing what CCP provides, and only on CCP's website in the way that CCP wants them to do. This removes a vast amount of potential from the site. Standards like OpenSocial permit for high levels of integration without exposing personal data beyond that agreed with the application on install; this is covered further towards the end of this post.
My proposal is essentially to ask CCP to place an emphasis on making new APIs, on bringing support for third party applications and open integration into EVE Gate through existing open standards, and to place a new priority on maintaining and improving the API to maintain openness of data- anything that is available through EVE Gate should be available through APIs with the same level of permissions.
Permissions is my other point. Because CCP has not made APIs available a large amount of applications which require a user's EVE login to function have started cropping up. This is going backwards- before the API we had this situation, where you had to give your EVE login to third party apps for them to function. Clearly from a security standpoint this is extremely worrying. The solution is easy - ensure API equivalents are exposed for all EVE Gate features.
In addition to this problem, with the large number of API functions already available and the large number of additional functions that would be made available should CCP actually replicate EVE Gate features into the API, a two or even three key system for API permissions is simply not enough to provide sufficient granularity. Open standards for application authentication and permissions should be adopted as a matter of urgency. This would enable users to grant applications only the permissions that application needs to function, and nothing else, and would let users see exactly what an application will have access to prior to granting it access. Such protocols include OAuth, used heavily by Twitter and Facebook.
The changes proposed above would not require a large increase in development time, but would require nontrivial redistribution of time that would otherwise be spent on new features, but I am confident the playerbase would in general welcome changes proposed above.
If nothing else, CCP would gain a multitude of useful apps and tools which would increase use of their own platform, rather than drive people from it, increasing return on investment for invested developer time and cost by improving the user experience.
--
Ix Forres
EVE Application Developer
EVE Metrics | accVIEW | I Tweet |
Arkady Sadik
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.07.05 21:51:00 -
[2]
Yes please. What he said.
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Makurid
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Posted - 2010.07.05 21:55:00 -
[3]
/signed |
Rilcon
Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.07.05 21:56:00 -
[4]
Yes to this.
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Modescond
Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.05 22:10:00 -
[5]
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Shinah Myst
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Posted - 2010.07.05 22:11:00 -
[6]
Do What He Means.
I am the devil and I am here to do the devil's work. |
Femaref
Armageddon Day
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.07.05 22:25:00 -
[7]
Representin'
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Batolemaeus
Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2010.07.05 22:37:00 -
[8]
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Xathytoz
Chaos-Necromancer Temple
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Posted - 2010.07.05 22:43:00 -
[9]
do it!
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Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.07.05 22:44:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Qoi on 05/07/2010 22:43:50
Thank you very much for your excellent recap.
I'm not too sure about evegate, but the API definitely could be vastly improved and you provided excellent suggestions for that.
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hauwp
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Posted - 2010.07.05 22:49:00 -
[11]
I'm actually less concerned about evegate then I am the api and igb. It seams to me that the igb wish list would be fairly simple to implement (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/IGB_Javascript_Wish_List), but w/e.
developers unite! supported.
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Jathertyn Asan
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Posted - 2010.07.05 22:58:00 -
[12]
/signed |
Glacialis Routa
Cerbian
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Posted - 2010.07.05 23:01:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Glacialis Routa on 05/07/2010 23:01:32
Thumbs up!
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Selina Lonarin
Frontier Exploration And Research
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Posted - 2010.07.05 23:32:00 -
[14]
As a developer and player myself, I agree completely. EVE Gate has contributed very little to my game-play experience, but even just work to expose PI job data would drastically improve the game-play experience for myself and others through the wealth of tools it would facilitate.
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Gnilch
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Posted - 2010.07.05 23:39:00 -
[15]
/signed
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Lumy
eXceed Inc.
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.07.05 23:48:00 -
[16]
Any CSM member wants to make this one part of his agenda? Could earn lots of votes from 3rd party app developers.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Sangrias
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Posted - 2010.07.05 23:58:00 -
[17]
/signed
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Darkwolf
TOG Empire
DRACONIAN COVENANT
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Posted - 2010.07.06 01:02:00 -
[18]
Supported.
Hell yes. IMO, there should be no read-only feature in EVEgate that is not fully implemented in the API.
I'm not so convinced on write-access via API though.
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Epitrope
The Citadel Manufacturing and Trade Corporation
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Posted - 2010.07.06 01:35:00 -
[19]
Granular keys are a necessity, and the player base has been asking for them (directly or not) since the API came out.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Xenogenesis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.06 01:59:00 -
[20]
API Improvments - Yes
Spacebook - No
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
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Clovermite
Kamikaze Fleet Command
Kamikaze Project
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Posted - 2010.07.06 02:16:00 -
[21]
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Ix Forres
Caldari
Vanguard Frontiers
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.07.06 03:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Darkwolf
Supported.
Hell yes. IMO, there should be no read-only feature in EVEgate that is not fully implemented in the API.
I'm not so convinced on write-access via API though.
If write access is available on EVE Gate, it should be available on the API, or we're back to square one- lots of people just scripting EVE Gate.
I do think that granular keys (or rather permission based keys) should be a prerequisite to this, however - you want to have total control over what can write.
--
Ix Forres
EVE Application Developer
EVE Metrics | accVIEW | I Tweet |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.07.06 03:52:00 -
[23]
Too late.
The EveGate team was run by someone with zero understanding of social networking.
They decided not to use any open standards, while being stuck on MS servers the choices are limited anyway.
When questioned on it at fanfest the team leader went into an ego driven rant about how he knew better.
Eve API should be oAuth instead of/aswell as keys.
EveGate should be an OpenID provider with oAuth extension.
EveGate should have an OpenSocial container (Apache Shindig is 50,000 hours of free code)
for users to develop fleet/calendar/event/organisation apps.
99.99% of the potential of EveGate has been squandered by making it proprietry closed system with no integration points.
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Darkwolf
Caldari
TOG Empire
DRACONIAN COVENANT
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Posted - 2010.07.06 03:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ix Forres
If write access is available on EVE Gate, it should be available on the API, or we're back to square one- lots of people just scripting EVE Gate.
I do think that granular keys (or rather permission based keys) should be a prerequisite to this, however - you want to have total control over what can write.
Agreed, however with the current tiers of API keys, adding write access would be potentially bad. Currently the "Full" API key does not allow write access. So if CCP went and granted write access through the Full API key, you've potentially got a security disaster there. That's why I don't support it right now.
With the addition of a new "Really Full API" key that allows Full access + write, then it's all good.
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Lykouleon
Trust Doesn't Rust
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Posted - 2010.07.06 05:05:00 -
[25]
Quote:
CCP Mindstar > Sorry - I've completely messed all that up. lets try again
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Poskyro
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Posted - 2010.07.06 05:56:00 -
[26]
/signed
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Akura Sali
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Posted - 2010.07.06 06:06:00 -
[27]
/signed
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FloppyM
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Posted - 2010.07.06 11:01:00 -
[28]
/signed |
Elissen
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2010.07.06 13:46:00 -
[29]
Actually, EVE Gate should have been based on top of the API so that all functionality of EVE Gate would also be available for 3rd party developers. But yes, I agree the API needs a big overhaul and why try to invent the wheel again?
----
Weeks of programming can save you hours of planning.
Jumpplanner |
Jilnor
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.07.06 14:23:00 -
[30]
/signed
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Vir Hellnamin
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.07.06 14:24:00 -
[31]
Moar API (!) - or was it DPS...
(Anyways, I was promised a beer. yes? :P)
--
"Entering MH means instant death. It's worse than 0.0. Even the asteroids shoot back." - Alex Harumichi [GRD]
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HyperBeanie
Muppet Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.07.06 14:24:00 -
[32]
Good post IX, we really need something to happen soon!
/Signed
EVSCO - Free and Paid killboards - Get yours today! |
Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.07.06 14:25:00 -
[33]
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zys
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Posted - 2010.07.06 14:58:00 -
[34]
/signed |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.07.06 18:30:00 -
[35]
Yes.
--
Gradient forum |
Severin Emmeram
Re-Tek
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Posted - 2010.07.06 20:28:00 -
[36]
Yes please.
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witchking42
Swag Co.
Sandbox Bullies
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Posted - 2010.07.06 22:49:00 -
[37]
/ signed
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Muscaat
ASCENTIS CORPORATION
Free Worlds Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.06 22:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Elissen
Actually, EVE Gate should have been based on top of the API so that all functionality of EVE Gate would also be available for 3rd party developers. But yes, I agree the API needs a big overhaul and why try to invent the wheel again?
At Fanfest we were told it would be, and so we should expect the API to improve because CCP would be using it themselves...
----------
EVE Markets - global price trends at your fingertips |
Asura Cascade
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Posted - 2010.07.06 23:04:00 -
[39]
Agreed. Eve Gate seems very sparse. Integration plus better API support will mean this becomes a very important piece of the game. Right now it's a bit of an albatross.
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Fergus Meikleour
Freelance Hellraisers
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Posted - 2010.07.06 23:47:00 -
[40]
/signed
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tedivm
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.07.07 07:15:00 -
[41]
Love it! This would make developing for eve so much better. |
Irumani
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.07.07 08:31:00 -
[42]
/signed.
I'd love to see more and more functionalities and a better integrated environnement. |
Cailais
THE ORDAINED
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Posted - 2010.07.07 09:01:00 -
[43]
I support this motion.
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Shirrath
No Limit Productions
Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.07 09:11:00 -
[44]
Additional API features are always welcome. |
Paknac Queltel
Coffee Muggers
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Posted - 2010.07.07 10:19:00 -
[45]
Supported.
I'd personally like a read/write interface for Chatter, which I use quite a bit. Having to manually refresh is getting annoying.
Having to write a scraper just to get update notification would be annoying - even moreso if such a tool can't be shared because it needs account login credentials.
C'mon CCP, let us make and share beautiful tools. |
Ferrus Manuss
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Posted - 2010.07.07 10:37:00 -
[46]
FOR GREAT JUSTICE |
gunnar aztek
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Posted - 2010.07.07 12:24:00 -
[47]
supported
----
oRly? |
Aevum Decessus
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Posted - 2010.07.07 12:29:00 -
[48]
this is a great idea
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Rokkit Kween
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Posted - 2010.07.07 12:34:00 -
[49]
The use of M$ backends on the website and frums has been the problem since the beginning. Social networks only work if you can actually connect them to stuff, you can't have a social network that is insular and isolated from the rest of the internet. It just doesn't work.
==================================
One of the many faces of Mandrill
twitter Website
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PyjamaSam
Vanguard Frontiers
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.07.07 13:21:00 -
[50]
/Signed.
chris.
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Cpl Feld
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Posted - 2010.07.07 14:50:00 -
[51]
/signed
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Elissen
Amarr
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2010.07.07 15:09:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Muscaat
Originally by: Elissen
Actually, EVE Gate should have been based on top of the API so that all functionality of EVE Gate would also be available for 3rd party developers. But yes, I agree the API needs a big overhaul and why try to invent the wheel again?
At Fanfest we were told it would be, and so we should expect the API to improve because CCP would be using it themselves...
I know, I was at that roundtable myself. However, my gut feeling says they did not.
----
Weeks of programming can save you hours of planning.
Jumpplanner |
Franklen
Gallente
Tactical Support Solutions Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.07 16:31:00 -
[53]
/signed
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Rockhart
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Posted - 2010.07.07 17:08:00 -
[54]
I support this initiative.
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Squizz Caphinator
Scalding Pixels
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Posted - 2010.07.07 17:19:00 -
[55]
+3 internets for Ix Forres
or a simple thumbs up for support will do
--
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Kandrew Dorak
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.07.07 20:04:00 -
[56]
/signed
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Galideeth
Starkstrom
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.07.08 11:27:00 -
[57]
yes, please! |
Mynxee
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Posted - 2010.07.08 14:53:00 -
[58]
Players have consistently shown talent and insight in developing useful, elegant third party apps for EVE. The same brain-trust turned loose on EVEGate would be most welcome.
+1 Supported.
Life In Low Sec |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
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Posted - 2010.07.08 16:28:00 -
[59]
Supported.
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mazzilliu
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.07.08 18:18:00 -
[60]
Edited by: mazzilliu on 08/07/2010 18:17:44
if mynxee doesnt raise it as a csm issue i will.
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Laereal Sekhi
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Posted - 2010.07.08 22:43:00 -
[61]
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Danlisa
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Posted - 2010.07.09 12:15:00 -
[62]
Supported. |
Opiboble Inte
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.09 15:56:00 -
[63]
Agree, the API needs some major work done.
-Opi out. |
Mrs Inte
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Posted - 2010.07.09 15:57:00 -
[64]
API needs updating!
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Ohmiri
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Posted - 2010.07.09 18:07:00 -
[65]
Agreed
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Nathalia Itiero
Gallente
Vanguard Frontiers
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.07.10 01:35:00 -
[66]
/signed 
__________________________________________________
A part of the MMMetrics team.
EVE-Metrics |
Karbowiak
Superior Mass
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Posted - 2010.07.10 03:43:00 -
[67]
Whole heartedly agree!
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.07.10 04:21:00 -
[68]
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.07.10 04:23:00 -
[69]
Yes!
Yes the API is a great way to spend some development resources. It doesn't have combat "balance" issues or CCP likes 0.0/lo/carebear better - all would benefit. It doesn't require a client upgrade so it can happen in between the 6 months cycles. It is also very visible.
Yes to EVEGate using APIs
Yes Yes Yes to open standards!
Yes to realizing that as you move into the web in general and open standards and especially social networking, a good job is going to require CCP to move far, far away from their Microsoft comfort zone.
yes to now is the time to address EvEGate and the architecture before more gets built. Nor do you want to get the DUST integration started this way.
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Garil Xolte
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Posted - 2010.07.10 10:54:00 -
[70]
/signed |
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Jarjar
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.07.10 15:49:00 -
[71]
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Saijuri
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Posted - 2010.07.12 10:51:00 -
[72]
/signed
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Gianna Mattioli
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Posted - 2010.07.13 00:07:00 -
[73]
I support this proposal.
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Elle D
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.07.13 01:19:00 -
[74]
/signed
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n30na
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Posted - 2010.07.13 14:56:00 -
[75]
yes, please.
Both to making eve gate actually useful (I keep forgetting it's even there), and to making it so we can do more with the api.
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Sakari Orisi
Atomic Battle Pigeons
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Posted - 2010.07.14 19:17:00 -
[76]
Agreed
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Serpentine Logic
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Posted - 2010.07.17 07:30:00 -
[77]
+1. Google has shown how open APIs benefit them just as much as their users.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.07.17 15:29:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
API Improvments - Yes
Spacebook - No
Listen to this wise man's words!
API - Yes
Spacebook - No. It's a painful waste of resources. Bring the forum to today's standards. And after that, you might play around with that other web thingy.
--
EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Rikki Sals
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Posted - 2010.07.17 21:02:00 -
[79]
Supported.
Do it the intelligent way!
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BeanBagKing
Ch3mic4l Warfare
STR8NGE BREW
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Posted - 2010.07.17 23:29:00 -
[80]
More API is always better. Personally I think a contracts API would be the best. Imagine how happy currior runners would be if you could get info on contract location, destination, collateral and reward. It would make moving your stuff in space much easier, this info could be imported into a tool so they could plan their route for optimum profit. I think this would result in more haulers doing curior contracts for profit, which would result in a system that's much easier to move stuff around in while stil being player controlled.
It'd also be nice to fetch price updates on faction/officer items. =D |
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Ebisu Kami
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Posted - 2010.07.17 23:40:00 -
[81]
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
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Posted - 2010.07.18 11:33:00 -
[82]
Supported, another one for CCP's backlog to be considered when dev time and server performance allows it...
Write access via API authentication to EVEGate functions (which apparently has an XML-RPC backend already anyway) would be real nice though as I'm sure any player implementation of those features will be better (and more compatible) than the backwards official one they have so many people working on...
--
Originally by: CCP
the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features
|
OwlManAtt
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.07.19 00:34:00 -
[83]
/support
And can I kindly have something like the S&I -> Corp Blueprints tab over the API? I maintain a database of all my BPOs and their ME/PE levels. Occasionally, my staff (or myself  ) **** up and all our numbers are off until someone catches it.
It would be a huge quality of life increase if I could get this data over the API and ensure accuracy.
---
Owl |
Dodgy Past
Trans-Solar Works
Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.07.19 00:50:00 -
[84]
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Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.07.19 10:48:00 -
[85]
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.07.19 11:17:00 -
[86]
Going through the Assembly Hall, supporting awesome ideas.
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Dierdra Vaal
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Posted - 2010.07.23 10:00:00 -
[87]
I agree with most of the points - I'll have to make it into an issue one of these days :)
* * *
Director of Education :: EVE University
* * *
CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman
|
aqil
|
Posted - 2010.08.01 05:48:00 -
[88]
Edited by: aqil on 01/08/2010 05:50:52
/signed
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wr3cks
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.01 09:36:00 -
[89]
right on
CCP should really be smarter about third party apps.
Just think: how much dev time would it take to make EVEmon? Or eve-central?
All you have to do is give people tools, and they make all this stuff for free.
If only the UI were this way. Say what you will about WOW, you can't argue that the quantity and quality of the player-developed UI mods for that game are anything short of incredible.
Our players are smarter. I bet they could come up with way better stuff if you worked on opening up the code more.
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Anna Weston
Holdings Inc
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Posted - 2010.08.03 14:30:00 -
[90]
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kaka chace
|
Posted - 2010.08.04 13:13:00 -
[91]
API improvements :YES
Spacebook... HELL YES
|
Schedak Mork
Starkstrom
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.08.09 18:16:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Schedak Mork on 09/08/2010 18:17:16
/signed
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Chad VanGaalen
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Posted - 2010.08.11 17:49:00 -
[93]
/signed |
Dario Raven
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Posted - 2010.08.16 11:50:00 -
[94]
/signed
|
Sigmaz
United Systems Navy
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.10.13 10:25:00 -
[95]
/signed
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Nuts Nougat
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.10.13 11:23:00 -
[96]
Supported.
Also, someone at CCP please move the API page and the entire http://api.eve-online.com/ vhost to HTTPS please.
---
|
Gary Hagon
Demons Of The Murdering God
Adeptus Arbites
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Posted - 2010.11.07 17:04:00 -
[97]
I fully support the development of the API feature as long as we are able to choose what data can be sent out from our keys.
however, I do not support the idea of write access, mainly because this serves two potental issues (as mentioned by other posters in this thread).
1. Server load my become unbearable
2. Major security risk
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