EVE Search - why there is no REAL bank in eve?

All Channels

Market Discussions

why there is no REAL bank in eve?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Josephina Marco	Posted - 2010.07.08 15:26:00 - [1] and for real bank i mean a corporation/group/person/etc. that will accept deposit at an interest X% and that will lend ISK at an interest (X+Y)%. Because as far as I understand there are enough corporations/groups/persons/etc. that have the financial power to do such a thing
Tiberius Smacchus	Posted - 2010.07.08 15:29:00 - [2]
Dramaticus GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.07.08 15:30:00 - [3] send me your isk and i will double it Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
Agente	Posted - 2010.07.08 15:30:00 - [4] /Me thinks you need to read some EVE history. :-)
Cista2 Hydra Investment Fund	Posted - 2010.07.08 15:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Josephina Marco and for real bank i mean a corporation/group/person/etc. that will accept deposit at an interest X% and that will lend ISK at an interest (X+Y)%. Because as far as I understand there are enough corporations/groups/persons/etc. that have the financial power to do such a thing There have been several large banks in Eve, most notably EIB, Dynasty and Ebank, and they all ended with massive scams. Some claim Ebank is still alive. Nevertheless, starting up a new bank is something few have the guts to try. ----------------------- "Signatures" trader chatroom / Hydra Investment Fund
Darth Tickles	Posted - 2010.07.08 16:00:00 - [6] There are banks. However, they wisely avoid both taking deposits and making unsecured loans, which are both terrible ideas. Instead they borrow for fixed periods at one rate and lend secured by collateral at a higher rate.
Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2010.07.08 16:43:00 - [7] The simple answer is that EVE doesn't mirror the credit requirements, and therefore the financing mechanisms, that exist in modern life. Due to the ease with which self-finance is perpetuated there is minimal, even insignificant demand for credit and a much higher proportion for savings. I would go so far as to say there is an unbelievably high bias towards savings, but self- or private-investment skews the available public ratios we have (at lolbank this has historically been 10:1 in favour of savings). Want to hear the complex answer? Follow My EBANK Chatter
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.08 17:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Josephina Marco and for real bank i mean a corporation/group/person/etc. that will accept deposit at an interest X% and that will lend ISK at an interest (X+Y)%. Because as far as I understand there are enough corporations/groups/persons/etc. that have the financial power to do such a thing Time has proven that the technology is a bit tough to tackle. I'll explain. Most people know how to pull the API, throw it in a database, and query the database for the results. But Banks need more. Few people have been able to build the technology (and even when they do, sometimes it fails spectacularly - Dynasty Bank for example) that a Bank would require. Even if you do have the technology though, it's been proven that Loans aren't a great way for a Bank to make money. Oh, then there's actually accounting for all the money the Bank has...another very hard to do thing. In all this time I've seen only one person do it decently -- a private Bank that ultimately failed. Projects Blog
Faccat	Posted - 2010.07.08 17:44:00 - [9] Money supply. In Eve, a bank can only loan an ISK that is has. To make a 1 Billion ISK loan, the bank needs 1 Billion ISK deposit. More than that in fact because it will need enough to cover interest rates on the deposits. A real bank can loan out far more than it has in deposits. They take in $200,000 in deposits at 2.25% interest and then make 4 home loans at 5% interest. Collateral. Eve collateral has to be handed over and loses its utility value for the owner during the time of the loan. The real collateral exchange is only by title with a real loan. It is possible to claw back a house or car from a loan. It is also possible to go after a person in real life where evasion in Eve is as simple as logging out or moving somewhere else, or the extreme case of just becoming someone else. I can't conceive of a game allowing players to work with a leveraged money supply. Perhaps something could be done with collateral. Maybe an item could be bound to a station and flagged so that it can't leave a particular station until a certain chain of events occurs. This way a BPO, for example, could still be used to produce and used as collateral. It wouldn't help with anything which needs to be used in space, though, as that always faces the possibility of destruction. Perhaps contracts would be tied to security standing (for a fee, of course). Someone failing to meet the terms of a contract would lose standing and truly become an outlaw. Imagine trying to draw up a contract that provides a standing loss with every faction in game just to be sure. A player could still sell that character and buy another.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.07.08 18:13:00 - [10] Edited by: SencneS on 08/07/2010 18:13:57 Originally by: Hexxx Even if you do have the technology though, it's been proven that Loans aren't a great way for a Bank to make money. I'd lean on not great but required. One of the biggest internal pressure points in EBANK was payroll. "We're all doing this stuff why are we not getting paid." comments on pretty much everyone in EBANK in the past. The problem is ventures make ISK but leave a sour taste in the mouth of the person doing them, because they could do them and get ALL the ISK for themselves. Banks in EVE need to generate profit from other much more passive sources or they'll eventually pull a Ricdic who.. And I'll quote him here from that MSN Log.. "[09:32:34] Ricdic: so after all the crap i decided i was sick of giving, and started taking" So things like Shares, Bond investments, Loans, passive market speculation, lottos, selling services etc is what in my opinion any bank more stable. The issue there is, it comes with a lot of risks, and the interest is just not good enough. So ventures are introduced to generate a little more, they can feed the interest by themselves but the social aspect of running a bank made up of nothing but ventures is dangerous. Amarr for Life
Eulalinda	Posted - 2010.07.08 20:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Josephina Marco and for real bank i mean a corporation/group/person/etc. that will accept deposit at an interest X% and that will lend ISK at an interest (X+Y)%. Because as far as I understand there are enough corporations/groups/persons/etc. that have the financial power to do such a thing Because there is no REAL accountability in Eve, i.e. no way to enforce any agreement. You can't imprison someone for fraud in Eve, nor can you seize their assets once they're convicted in court. No real consequences = No real bank
Kyanse	Posted - 2010.07.08 20:06:00 - [12] United Bank of EVE will accept your ISK and send you due interest payout every month on the 1st. If you wish to be a customer then first please send the amount you wish to deposit. We will contact you short after the initial deposit. Minimum deposit: 1M ISK. Monthly interest: 3.0% for accounts under 10B ISK and 2.4% for accounts over 10B ISK. Please send your deposit to Kyanse.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.08 20:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Eulalinda Originally by: Josephina Marco and for real bank i mean a corporation/group/person/etc. that will accept deposit at an interest X% and that will lend ISK at an interest (X+Y)%. Because as far as I understand there are enough corporations/groups/persons/etc. that have the financial power to do such a thing Because there is no REAL accountability in Eve, i.e. no way to enforce any agreement. You can't imprison someone for fraud in Eve, nor can you seize their assets once they're convicted in court. No real consequences = No real bank People have been banking since the third millennium B.C. I don't need to tell you that there was no FDIC back then -- not to mention banking regulations. Even more recently, the Bank of the Medici in Florence had no real regulation to contend with. Accounting was done out of necessity, not government mandate. The Medici Banks gave loans to nobility. Can you guess what kind of enforcement an Italian bank had at it's disposal when the King of France defaulted on his loans? (hint: nothing) No real accountability in EVE? How about no real accountability for the majority of Banking's history, that doesn't make them "not real" Banks though. Projects Blog
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.07.08 20:20:00 - [14] shakes fist at king of france why i oughtta...
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2010.07.08 20:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Eulalinda Originally by: Josephina Marco and for real bank i mean a corporation/group/person/etc. that will accept deposit at an interest X% and that will lend ISK at an interest (X+Y)%. Because as far as I understand there are enough corporations/groups/persons/etc. that have the financial power to do such a thing Because there is no REAL accountability in Eve, i.e. no way to enforce any agreement. You can't imprison someone for fraud in Eve, nor can you seize their assets once they're convicted in court. No real consequences = No real bank People have been banking since the third millennium B.C. I don't need to tell you that there was no FDIC back then -- not to mention banking regulations. Even more recently, the Bank of the Medici in Florence had no real regulation to contend with. Accounting was done out of necessity, not government mandate. The Medici Banks gave loans to nobility. Can you guess what kind of enforcement an Italian bank had at it's disposal when the King of France defaulted on his loans? (hint: nothing) No real accountability in EVE? How about no real accountability for the majority of Banking's history, that doesn't make them "not real" Banks though. there was always knee-breaking clause in history. none of that in EVE. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon."
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.08 20:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Jagga Spikes there was always knee-breaking clause in history. none of that in EVE. You had to find the offender. It wasn't like you could post an APB. Hey, sounds like EVE! Projects Blog
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2010.07.08 21:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Jagga Spikes there was always knee-breaking clause in history. none of that in EVE. You had to find the offender. It wasn't like you could post an APB. Hey, sounds like EVE! oh, come on! you can do perfectly non-tracable transactions in real life? you can keep running business from perfect security? in real life everything has a price. in EVE some things just can't be done. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon."
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.08 21:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Jagga Spikes Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Jagga Spikes there was always knee-breaking clause in history. none of that in EVE. You had to find the offender. It wasn't like you could post an APB. Hey, sounds like EVE! oh, come on! you can do perfectly non-tracable transactions in real life? you can keep running business from perfect security? in real life everything has a price. in EVE some things just can't be done. You telling me those things were all possible for the Banks of Florence in the 1600's? Projects Blog
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2010.07.08 21:35:00 - [19] i'm saying that King of France was just a mortal human, that couldn't wire his debt worth to anonymity. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon."
Eulalinda	Posted - 2010.07.08 21:50:00 - [20] Edited by: Eulalinda on 08/07/2010 21:54:22 Exactly. As a trader, I spend nearly 100% of my EVE life in a station where I'm 100% immortal. There's no penalty for scamming or defrauding someone. There are no "REAL" banks in Eve because there are no "real" threats because the real government in Eve (i.e. CCP) has provided thousands of sanctuaries (i.e. stations) for even the most universally hated players.
Krathos Morpheus Legion Infernal	Posted - 2010.07.08 21:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Hexxx You telling me those things were all possible for the Banks of Florence in the 1600's? Anonimity and virtual identities make a huge difference, as well as it does the possibility of log off, unreachability of assets and possesions, as well as the lack of homes and stablishments. The risible consecuences help a lot too, in the real world you have one life, in eve you can die and laugh with your money still intact in your digital wallet. You can not been imprisoned also. Even finding the offender makes no difference in the game. Don't you see the stupidity of comparing eve to real life at this level yet? Kings and nobles get their money here too though, reputation is valid, but in eve, those reputable enough get stupidly low interests unsustainable for a bank (given the limited supply of those) and still too risky for the bank as eBank has proven with it's defaulting loans. All this let us with only collateralized loans as a secured viable business and limitations of those on eve have been already exposed, limiting the number of possible loaners considerably. For a successful approach to this business I would look at cosmoray business, no need of a bank for that.
Companion Trollin You are going too fast	Posted - 2010.07.09 03:14:00 - [22] Originally by: Josephina Marco and for real bank i mean a corporation/group/person/etc. that will accept deposit at an interest X% and that will lend ISK at an interest (X+Y)%. Because as far as I understand there are enough corporations/groups/persons/etc. that have the financial power to do such a thing The simple answer is that EVE has zero accountability. There are no laws to enforce any bank giving your money back, so no bank ever will. ♥ Originally by: CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic. Thanks. -- Shadow
Halcyon Ingenium Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse	Posted - 2010.07.09 07:05:00 - [23] Edited by: Halcyon Ingenium on 09/07/2010 07:06:15 All a bank can do in EVE, much like most of banking history, is not loan to those who default. Maybe also hire a merc corp to do some damage, which costs more money and is dubious in its success. This highlights something about banks and why they will not work in EVE. In banking, and in business in general, one of the, if not THE, primary element to banking/business is trust. If no one trusts anyone, no banking or business happens. By extension, if there are no ways for individuals to settle a business/banking dispute, i.e. court system, then no trust and no business/banking. Two things EVE lacks to make banking viable. 1)Trust - few people trust anyone but their own, some don't even trust their own. 2)Court system - no way to arbitrate disputes, no way to compel someone to submit to the arbiters decision. This is barring consideration of game mechanics concerning capitol, which also make banking not worth the time or effort. Trolls? In my EVE forums? It's more likely than you think...
Party Grinder	Posted - 2010.07.09 11:50:00 - [24] Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium Two things EVE lacks to make banking viable. 1)Trust - few people trust anyone but their own, some don't even trust their own. 2)Court system - no way to arbitrate disputes, no way to compel someone to submit to the arbiters decision. Exactly. So if you want to compare to RL banks you'll have to do it with banks from Middle Age or earlier. Which were mostly used to store money safely and trade safely without having to around tons of coins. And both are useless in a world like New Eden where you only use electronic cash. And all the loans from MD are pretty much the best if will ever get in Eve. Pretty much like those Middle Age banks weren't doing loans to random individuals, you'll only get a decent one if you can provide some trust : full API key to be audited (so investors can be assured that you're really doing business - not just setting up a ponzi scheme), collaterals to make them feel safe about it, being a known pilot (at some point, you would need a lot of ISK to make it worth destroying your reputation) or having a nice history of successful investments.
Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.07.09 12:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Eulalinda Originally by: Josephina Marco and for real bank i mean a corporation/group/person/etc. that will accept deposit at an interest X% and that will lend ISK at an interest (X+Y)%. Because as far as I understand there are enough corporations/groups/persons/etc. that have the financial power to do such a thing Because there is no REAL accountability in Eve, i.e. no way to enforce any agreement. You can't imprison someone for fraud in Eve, nor can you seize their assets once they're convicted in court. No real consequences = No real bank People have been banking since the third millennium B.C. I don't need to tell you that there was no FDIC back then -- not to mention banking regulations. Even more recently, the Bank of the Medici in Florence had no real regulation to contend with. Accounting was done out of necessity, not government mandate. The Medici Banks gave loans to nobility. Can you guess what kind of enforcement an Italian bank had at it's disposal when the King of France defaulted on his loans? (hint: nothing) No real accountability in EVE? How about no real accountability for the majority of Banking's history, that doesn't make them "not real" Banks though. People in Eve have nothing to lose with complete anonymity. People in the real world always have something to lose. There is accountability in real life for worthless bankers and worthless debtors, but none in Eve. Accountability != to secured deposits.
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.07.09 12:44:00 - [26] Originally by: Party Grinder Pretty much like those Middle Age banks weren't doing loans to random individuals, you'll only get a decent one if you can provide some trust I am no expert on the subject of the medieval banking system, but as far as I know you can basically split their activities into two categories: providing easy liquidity to merchants (coinless payment via bank notes, credit lines) and providing (big) loans to states/monarchs. Back then sovereign default in one form or another was not uncommon at all and at least on paper the bank had no recourse whatsoever against this creditor. Saying that banks lent governments money because they simply "trusted" them would be akin to saying that these bankers were incredibly naive. Their security was that they (and only they) had the means to provide future credit when needed - while trying to appropriate the necessary funds directly from their owners would be tedious for the government and probably not too successful. The only thing keeping a state (somewhat) honest is its inability to maintain a balanced budget. Maybe the king decides to default on the country's debts today - but if he does this it just means he will have to pay them tomorrow in order to get access to new credit. You see this at work in the (heated) debate over the acknowledgment of Tsarist debts after the Russian Revolution (the Bolsheviks made the offer to acknowledge the Russian debt in exchange for guaranteed access to new credit), you see this in Argentina's increased efforts to negotiate a settlement with its creditors earlier this year (trying to dismiss the president of its central bank, so they could use the currency reserves to pay back the old creditors) and I am entirely positive things worked exactly the same way during the middle ages. This mechanic does not work for your usual MD loans.
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.07.09 17:43:00 - [27] In the real world, the average person needs a bank account to facilitate transactions. Checks, electronic transfers, and debit cards are superior methods of payment to cash. The interest earned is often insignificant. In EVE, banks actually make it more difficult to access your money. Even ignoring all of the law enforcement issues described above, the only compelling reason to open a bank account is to earn interest. If out-of-game organizations were more common, I could see a more viable banking role emerge, but as it is we're better off just dealing with investments. Packtu'sa Executor, Nabaal Syndicate <NS>
Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2010.07.09 18:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Packtu'sa the only compelling reason to open a bank account is to earn interest. Or default on a loan, right? Follow My EBANK Chatter
Taram Caldar Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.07.10 14:09:00 - [29] LOL There have been many banks in EVE. Unfortunately with no way to police them every single one has either been a scam from the start or wound up turning into a giant scam eventually. Even EVE Bank wound up scamming it's suckers... err... customers... out of all their money. Banks don't work in EVE. Market Alerts Mailing List
Otto3d Caldari Aerospace Corporation	Posted - 2010.07.10 20:41:00 - [30] You know why there will never be a successful bank? It is because people cannot be trusted, there is no consequences or law in EVE. Who is there to punish somebody who takes a loan but doesnt give it back? Certainly not CONCORD, you can place a bounty but that only works if they leave 0.4 sec space. No law or order means no civilized banking system. "I came, I saw, I conquer." - Julius Caesar
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.10 21:23:00 - [31] Originally by: Otto3d You know why there will never be a successful bank? It is because people cannot be trusted, there is no consequences or law in EVE. Who is there to punish somebody who takes a loan but doesnt give it back? Certainly not CONCORD, you can place a bounty but that only works if they leave 0.4 sec space. No law or order means no civilized banking system. Oh, you mean like collateral? Projects Blog
Fantasia Freelance	Posted - 2010.07.10 23:26:00 - [32] Originally by: Otto3d Certainly not CONCORD, you can place a bounty but that only works if they leave 0.4 sec space. I thought bounties worked anywhere. Are they limited to low-sec or hi-sec? See my in-game Contracts starting at 1 million like a full set of +3 Basic implants! WTB Scourge missiles and +3 Basic implants in hi sec.
Dasola Minmatar	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Fantasia Freelance Originally by: Otto3d Certainly not CONCORD, you can place a bounty but that only works if they leave 0.4 sec space. I thought bounties worked anywhere. Are they limited to low-sec or hi-sec? Problem with bountie is: If i have 100 mil bounty on me, i can clonejump to clone with no implants. My friend comes over and blows me up in lowssec and we split the reward. No it really dosent work as insentive to pay out your loans.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.07.12 15:14:00 - [34] Edited by: SencneS on 12/07/2010 15:14:57 Even if you attempt to vengeance on a defaulter it costs ISK. Wardec costs. Merc Corp costs. Even Suicide Gank squad costs. So you're out the ISK they defaulted on, and your out the ISK for retaliation. The only way it would work is if the defaulter had POSs up with loads of mods. Then a Wardec corp could down the POSes and take the mods. Most Wardec corps are honorable to the contractor but if they are getting paid 1B to down a POS that has 3B of mods the temptation there is started to get a little high. There hardly anything a borrower can do after the loan is issued to "Get ISK Back" that doesn't cost even MORE ISK. Name and shame can work from time to time, if the defaulter has care enough about their rep, but in most cases they don't. So everything needs to be done up front. Loans really only work with 100%+ Collateral in the hands of the issuer of the loan. Unfortunately CCP had a mechanism in place that could be used, but they refused to enforce it and later removed it. Free Form Contracts, that could have been used if CCP actually backed it up with some GM Powers via petition, but they never did :( Amarr for Life
Leneerra Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.07.12 17:03:00 - [35] Originally by: SencneS Edited by: SencneS on 12/07/2010 15:14:57 Even if you attempt to vengeance on a defaulter it costs ISK. Wardec costs. Merc Corp costs. Even Suicide Gank squad costs. So you're out the ISK they defaulted on, and your out the ISK for retaliation. The only way it would work is if the defaulter had POSs up with loads of mods. Then a Wardec corp could down the POSes and take the mods. Most Wardec corps are honorable to the contractor but if they are getting paid 1B to down a POS that has 3B of mods the temptation there is started to get a little high. There hardly anything a borrower can do after the loan is issued to "Get ISK Back" that doesn't cost even MORE ISK. Name and shame can work from time to time, if the defaulter has care enough about their rep, but in most cases they don't. So everything needs to be done up front. Loans really only work with 100%+ Collateral in the hands of the issuer of the loan. Unfortunately CCP had a mechanism in place that could be used, but they refused to enforce it and later removed it. Free Form Contracts, that could have been used if CCP actually backed it up with some GM Powers via petition, but they never did :( Some even claim to care for their reputation, and pretends the isk still belongs to the person that provided it to them. But they still keep my isk. I have contemplated taking actions such as you describe but I think it is just throwing good money after bad. I like the idear of stripping pos belonging to the defaulter, maybe that is something I should take a better look at. The only other option I came up with, that would not cost me (much) extra, and might still work as the defaulter still pretends the isk is mine, could be running a lottery awarding the the amount owed to me as a prize. entry tickets could be veryfied podkills and/or any shipkills with a substantial loss (say 500m or more).
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.07.12 17:37:00 - [36] In addition, with the current CCP features, there is no "Estate Court" Nothing involving reputation or reatlliation is going to put *any* pressure on someone who is no longer playing the game. E.g., they or a family member have a serious illness/car wreck, emorage quit, move on to FOTM MMO (STO, SWTOR,FarmVille?), lose job/computer/ability to subscribe, significant other insists they stop immediately or sitting in a dark room moaning an ex's name and throwing empty vodka/tequila bottles against the wall. Whereas if someone who accepts your courier contract subsequently flakes, then CCP's mechanism ensures you receive satisfaction, even if the other person never logs in again.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.07.12 17:43:00 - [37] Originally by: Leneerra Some even claim to care for their reputation, and pretends the isk still belongs to the person that provided it to them. But they still keep my isk. I have contemplated taking actions such as you describe but I think it is just throwing good money after bad. I like the idear of stripping pos belonging to the defaulter, maybe that is something I should take a better look at. The only other option I came up with, that would not cost me (much) extra, and might still work as the defaulter still pretends the isk is mine, could be running a lottery awarding the the amount owed to me as a prize. entry tickets could be veryfied podkills and/or any shipkills with a substantial loss (say 500m or more). Unfortunately taking actions against those that didn't actually default on the debt wouldn't get the ISK any quicker. EBANK tried many times to point this out to KIA, but KIA's response is clear.. We didn't take the ISK. IF KIA repaying that which they didn't take or have in the first place that would be a chartable donation at best. Funny thing about Charity, people donate money, goods, even time and expecting nothing in return, that is charity. Since you're trying to be tactful I'll be blunt . I'll be happy to pay you out of my pocket the amount of ISK that I have collected out of EBANK minus the amount I've generated for EBANK within my time I've give to EBANK in the form of charity. The amount about -5.5B ISK. While I would LOVE to process a -5.5B transaction from my wallet to yours, I'd need DEVHacks to perform it. Or you could just issue 5.5B from your wallet to mine, when we'll be even. Besides, don't get your nickers in a knot any tighter, next announcement will be one that will receive both cheers and jeers, which way will you go, not sure, don't want to predict but keep an eye out for it. Amarr for Life
Edarti	Posted - 2010.07.12 19:57:00 - [38] A lot of people miss a very obvious point. Running a bank requires a whole lot of very tedious VERY boring operational and accounting work, that needs to be checked and double checked, and has no place in a GAME. I should know, I work in one.
Krathos Morpheus Legion Infernal	Posted - 2010.07.12 20:29:00 - [39] Originally by: Edarti A lot of people miss a very obvious point. Running a bank requires a whole lot of very tedious VERY boring operational and accounting work, that needs to be checked and double checked, and has no place in a GAME. I should know, I work in one. Now imagine you could keep all that money for your personal use. Wouldn't you consider doing that work given the reward? There are a few of us who would chose not to for the right reasons, but I understand people will be attracted to it because of that. I may even understand some people that do not work on banks and don't know the tediousness needed may be attracted by those who start the bank given that operational work is simplified and not held up to real world standards or is runned by other people.
Tiberizzle	Posted - 2010.07.12 21:11:00 - [40] Originally by: Dramaticus send me your isk and i will double it Why did this stay as first post but my alt's "" post got deleted? I think "" is a perfectly on topic, succinct, and valid response to the idea of yet another Eve bank
Voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2010.07.13 11:04:00 - [41] One reason why banks aren't in EVE, in real life, banks practice "Fractional Reserve Banking", in short, it allows them to loan out more money than they have (which puts them in a vulnerable position if too many people take money out of the bank). The reserve requirement is about 10% of all deposits, so at the end of a day they can have say, 1B of loans but only have 100M of actual cash reserves. (This is because they first make a loan for 90M from the 100M, it's deposited, they then loan out 90% of that deposit, and so on) In EVE, banks can only lend out money they actually have (gasp!), but ultimately the risk of the bank operators running away with all of the money is so high, that people just keep the money in their `wallets`. Hate Farmers? Click Here
Intaki Shadow	Posted - 2010.07.13 12:36:00 - [42] standings need to be inverted -- if you could see who had set who to positive and negative standings you could begin to form trust networks. also would be nice to have a threshold of 'global' standings required for chatting in local ;)
Leneerra Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.07.14 00:34:00 - [43] sencnes, I never claimed you or your colleagues were not working hard, nor do I claim to understand why people would pay to work in a game, You probably thought you'd get some kind of satisfaction when you started out. But this topic was about banks in eve, or the perceived lack there off. reasons for this are as far as I know: - All previous public banks allowing deposits do not allow withdrawals by depositors at this time for various reasons. - Small loans are more work than they are worth in income - People with the correct reputation can get credit and/or raise billions in public monies within 2 days, often even without collateral - Collateral (except bpo's) cannot be used for other purposes while held as collateral - Most people without collateral have no reputation, making investing in them a gut decision, not a preferred mode of operation for an institution - Risk of scam by person loaning, bank personnel or collateral holder only increases the risk for all involved parties when more people are introduced holding some of the value - Many people needing loans could easily scam or otherwise default on their obligations without much repercussions - Few things in eve require large amounts of cash, and most of the possibilities that do exists provide a lesser return on investment than is doable in smaller investments. - No control over when isk (as in what ever is left from the deposit) is (should be) made available to depositors when the depositor ask for it while for ipo's and bonds control lies more with the person running it or in short no banks because - trust issues - no reason to exist other than cool factor - more isk = lower roi
Brother Right You have a friend in Jita	Posted - 2010.07.14 03:27:00 - [44] Originally by: Kyanse United Bank of EVE will accept your ISK and send you due interest payout every month on the 1st. If you wish to be a customer then first please send the amount you wish to deposit. We will contact you short after the initial deposit. Minimum deposit: 1M ISK. Monthly interest: 3.0% for accounts under 10B ISK and 2.4% for accounts over 10B ISK. Please send your deposit to Kyanse. ISK Sent.
Shidhe Minmatar The Babylon5 Consortuim	Posted - 2010.07.15 10:33:00 - [45] The main reason is that the corp/allaince management is too unstable, in that one person can destroy it in virtually no time. This has happened time and time again, and no long term progress can be made until it is repaired. [No replies about individual responsibility please, we are talking practical measures here, not philosophy.] Supposing that management was reformed, then what? We need different wallets that meally mean something - current, savings, investment. Then we need support from the contracts system. And possibly a 'credit rating' system for charcters. As for historical banks, there has always (well, maybe until two years ago...) been accountability of some form of the bank to their investors. This might only have been of the form of reputation of the banker, but that was often sufficient. This is not practical in a game where the only practical permanent communication systems (the forums) are game wide (as opposed to regional or conatellation wide) and alts are widespread. Unless, of course, Chribba is prepared to be the banker for the whole of EvE?

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.