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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.07.10 09:41:00 -
[61]
CCP, can you recode EVE into Pascal. I heard there's this language called Pascal named after a super cool mathematician. It must be an awesome language because it is named after a mathematician. Python is named after a snake, snakes can't do math. Trolls? In my EVE forums? It's more likely than you think...
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.10 09:49:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Amerilia on 10/07/2010 09:54:48
Originally by: Ardetia Edited by: Ardetia on 10/07/2010 09:40:48
Originally by: Amerilia Edited by: Amerilia on 10/07/2010 08:36:16
Originally by: Ardetia Edited by: Ardetia on 10/07/2010 08:12:14 stuff i said
You dont have a clue either - their server does use Stackless Python Aldo instead of just "looking up" a scripting language, how about using it and seeing for yourself? Also make sure to stop by Psyco, PyPy and Pyrex, along others, that can make or aim at making Python quite fast.
so they're not actually using python the scripting language? because scripting by definition means real-time translation of commands which is effectively a bottleneck no matter how well you do it instead im seeing ie. pypy as a work in progress where python is compiled into native code
aiming at making something quite fast, is not good enough for a world-class mmo asm/c is the fastest solution to anything and everything, it always will be, and even faster if you burn it to a ROM any non-native solution will always be second rate, but they aim to make it easier to work with now, im not saying they should replace SQL, because i dont, but _again_ i very much doubt their core facets are in fact python _script_
edit: but im willing to concede, given that CCP does real-time adjustments concerning input well enough to compete with static code, more or less but is mmo programming so simple? only the ones with the code knows for sure :)
They have repetively said, that they use Python as "glue" and for not-so-cpu-intense logical tasks. While the heavy workload is done in C++, which they call "Blue". In other words, they already are at an efficiently very very close to native C++ code, depending on how much runs in python and how much in C++.
This is the usual way to do things if you run into a python bottleneck - you use c or c++; the big advantage of python, to use that form of code as well. I for example ported collision detection and range checking into C for one of my python games not too long ago, to benefit from the speedup, to make it work on older machines. This way is very common for python programmers, if you make programs that need to execute fast (like games).
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Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.07.10 10:07:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Ressiv on 10/07/2010 10:22:24
Originally by: neferosis bla bla bla
Maybe come back after you have some real life experience beyond your training ?
This sounds all too much like all those irritating people just graduating from psychiatry and thinking they know how to change all the world in just 5 easy steps.
You just provided some valuable intel on how to justify NOT getting any apple products, ever. This much ignorance can only lead to /fail.
And finaly, what accomplishment that might support your ridiculous claim can you point at as being 'your work' ? I wanna learn, or at least laugh.
Edit: Read up on the complete post, and edited this reply in accordance. ========================== Nothing is true, everything is permitted. ========================== |
SkinSin
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Posted - 2010.07.10 10:33:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Amerilia I had done something related with a friend. He can code in pascal, c++ and php. I can Python, C/C++. He claimed Python would be way too slow to do things so we madea little competition. I would make a Python program including GUi, that does a (rather simple) computation task and he would do the same in C++. I made the app in Python, except for the core computation, I wrote that in C and made it an Python Extension. We then benchmarked both applications, and my Python program won by a small margin. Probably because of C instead of C++. Nice Sidenote: I didnt even once scream bad language while he was rather frustrated at the GUI Module he chose. While I just programmed it in about an hour, he took several.
TL:DR: If done right, Python is faster than C++
Sorry. This is just f****** stupid. I've bolded the parts for you. All you proved with this is that C can be faster than C++. Go back and write the core computation in Python and then try it again!
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.10 10:47:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Amerilia on 10/07/2010 10:56:18
Originally by: SkinSin
Originally by: Amerilia I had done something related with a friend. He can code in pascal, c++ and php. I can Python, C/C++. He claimed Python would be way too slow to do things so we madea little competition. I would make a Python program including GUi, that does a (rather simple) computation task and he would do the same in C++. I made the app in Python, except for the core computation, I wrote that in C and made it an Python Extension. We then benchmarked both applications, and my Python program won by a small margin. Probably because of C instead of C++. Nice Sidenote: I didnt even once scream bad language while he was rather frustrated at the GUI Module he chose. While I just programmed it in about an hour, he took several.
TL:DR: If done right, Python is faster than C++
Sorry. This is just f****** stupid. I've bolded the parts for you. All you proved with this is that C can be faster than C++. Go back and write the core computation in Python and then try it again!
Well I actually wrote the core computation in python syntax, which was converted to C and then put into a pyd (python dll). This method can also be accomplished on the fly, see some of the modules I mentioned earlier. There are also some other methods like weave or inline. What I want to say is, you dont need to be able to write C, you can use Python Code and make it C. What I wanted to tell with that example, if they do use C for critical parts, python is not a bottleneck, and that is how CCP uses Python. It was an example to show that a little better. I realize C is not Python, but Python is C ;)
Basically the question shouldnt be to port the Python stuff to C++, it should be whether they should port their C++ stuff to C/Assembler. But I doubt that would help much. The Problem likely lies in the algorythms.
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BBQfire
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:00:00 -
[66]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg
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Supervisor Grammel
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:13:00 -
[67]
Please also migrate your database into a natively object oriented format.
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Mr M
Legion of Illuminated Social Rejects
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:25:00 -
[68]
You know Entity could recode all of Eve into C++ in less than a month
...but he's too busy being delicious.
Eve Tribune|EVEgeek|Firebrand Radio |
Steve Celeste
Caldari Overdogs
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:27:00 -
[69]
Originally by: neferosis I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
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Makar Kravchenko
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:30:00 -
[70]
This thread could have been stopped with:
Obvious troll is obviousÖ |
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Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:33:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Steve Celeste
Originally by: neferosis I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
I think that one was sarcastic, still cant believe so many dont get it.
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cyndrogen
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Posted - 2010.07.11 07:15:00 -
[72]
Edited by: cyndrogen on 11/07/2010 07:16:16 I couldn't agree more, the product which we pay for with real money does not even come close to the hype generated.... oh but this is just part 1, more will be coming soon. Oh yeah? How about I pay you later then... or to put it in your terms I will pay soon. Payment coming soon!
The eve universe is starting to feel old and dated especially with games like JGE just around the corner offering more features and a much better combat prototype.
I think the eve dev team has lost focus, tyrannis delivered us a half assed product, which feels untested and greatly rushed, they really need to step back and ask themselves a question, did we set out to make a massive online experience with hundreds of pilots fighting in unison, or do we want to release more and more features which have nothing to do with combat.
What would you rather do, click on extractors or take down a death star?
Originally by: neferosis CCP why not invest your earnings to make a more enjoyable game to play, lag-free. I see on like every site you have plenty of money spent to get subscriptions, buddy program etc. You guys seem to have shifted to milking out of the company instead of reinvesting into it which makes me sad. :(
Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard and would eliminate ALL lag because you can process commands much faster in C++. Why would you ever code the server in python when C++ is much more suitable for it.
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
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Bilko Bobski
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Posted - 2010.07.11 09:54:00 -
[73]
I've just had a pork pie, it was a melton mowbry and had pickle - untill today I've never been sure whether or not I actually like pickle, but mixed with pork and pastry it's definitely a yes.
Oh and before I forgot - stop spouting nonsense about how you could recode EVE in a month; there's a reason CCP haven't offered you a job.
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Directors Assistant
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.11 11:44:00 -
[74]
Originally by: neferosis
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
Thanks, I needed a good giggle.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.11 12:20:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Directors Assistant
Originally by: neferosis I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
Thanks, I needed a good giggle.
Weeeellà he's probably right: he wouldn't be able to spot the bugs, which would make them all that much horribleà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2010.07.11 14:32:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Pollictor If you can code this in a couple months, can you just make me a new spaceship MMO? I've been looking for a new one to play. I'll even pay ya for it if it doesn't suck. Hop to it buddy!
In C++ please or I won't subscribe.
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certayne
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Posted - 2010.07.11 14:34:00 -
[77]
Edited by: certayne on 11/07/2010 14:36:08 assembler
that is all
oh, and a month of unit/regression testing per patch, for the love of god
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SammyullJackson
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Posted - 2010.07.11 14:52:00 -
[78]
Originally by: cyndrogen Edited by: cyndrogen on 11/07/2010 07:16:16 I couldn't agree more, the product which we pay for with real money does not even come close to the hype generated.... oh but this is just part 1, more will be coming soon. Oh yeah? How about I pay you later then... or to put it in your terms I will pay soon. Payment coming soon!
The eve universe is starting to feel old and dated especially with games like JGE just around the corner offering more features and a much better combat prototype.
I think the eve dev team has lost focus, tyrannis delivered us a half assed product, which feels untested and greatly rushed, they really need to step back and ask themselves a question, did we set out to make a massive online experience with hundreds of pilots fighting in unison, or do we want to release more and more features which have nothing to do with combat.
What would you rather do, click on extractors or take down a death star?
Originally by: neferosis CCP why not invest your earnings to make a more enjoyable game to play, lag-free. I see on like every site you have plenty of money spent to get subscriptions, buddy program etc. You guys seem to have shifted to milking out of the company instead of reinvesting into it which makes me sad. :(
Can you please recode python into C++... its seriously not that hard and would eliminate ALL lag because you can process commands much faster in C++. Why would you ever code the server in python when C++ is much more suitable for it.
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs. Unfortunately I have a contract with apple at the moment so I can't help you with that. But there are plenty of people at that skill level that can in the workforce.
Hey look, it's this guy again, pushing his SPACE COMBAT!!!!11! agenda.
In a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with EVE gameplay...
Without saying anything whatsoever on-topic...
Wow. I'm actually kind of embarrassed for you.
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Fearless M0F0
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.07.11 15:04:00 -
[79]
Originally by: neferosis I am an expert in recode methods, I wrote my masters paper on techniques to be most effective in doing so.
So you are one of them Masters/PhD full of interesting theories and zero real world experience using them?
I never forget when I was at college (electrical engineering), some lab students couldn't get their control circuit to work as expected. A bunch of teachers, all of them with multiple PhD in control systems started to pile up around the students to figure out what was wrong...
After several minutes, when these "experts" started theorizing to explain this new "phenomena", another teacher, one with a lot of real life experience in electronics came by, looked at the student's proto-board for a minute, then moved one cable to the next hole and everything started working as expected -- I take offense on people feeling offended by me |
Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:44:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Donald Knuth Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
I thought this quote would be relevant to the discussion.
Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.07.11 17:46:00 -
[81]
OP - post some of your super-duper code on SourceForge or in a zip, and let us decide whether you're working for our game at CCP, mkay?
Item DB | Sigs
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.11 18:50:00 -
[82]
http://pastebin.ca This is clearly a signature. |
Beth Nidroski
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Posted - 2010.07.11 19:24:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Beth Nidroski on 11/07/2010 19:29:45 Edited by: Beth Nidroski on 11/07/2010 19:28:41
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium CCP, can you recode EVE into Pascal. I heard there's this language called Pascal named after a super cool mathematician. It must be an awesome language because it is named after a mathematician. Python is named after a snake, snakes can't do math.
QFT. Possibly most epic and accurate comment so far.
Oh and for those who have used this to drop some Apple hate, remember:
1. He says he is working a contract for Apple, not actually an employee of Apple. 2. His base claims are outlandish and unreasonable, so it's safe to assume that his assertion of working with/for/on behalf of Apple is likewise untrue. |
omgfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.07.11 20:04:00 -
[84]
Originally by: neferosis I am an expert in recode methods,
nah ur a ****** in ******ing, graduated from the institute of ******s in ******town, in the country of ******ia
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Jason Clutch
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Posted - 2010.07.11 20:17:00 -
[85]
Originally by: neferosis I am an expert in recode methods, I wrote my masters paper on techniques to be most effective in doing so. Its quite odd to see ignorant people saying things can't be done..
So if you are such an expert, you do know is a "Dissertation" or "Thesis" not paper, correct?
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:32:00 -
[86]
Originally by: neferosis
I could code all of eve in C++ in less than a month with no visible bugs.
Just look at how terrible you are.
Blog and Podcast - Twitter: DeclareWar
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Delyaria
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Posted - 2010.07.11 23:37:00 -
[87]
In Soviet Russia, Python reprograms YOU! |
Amerilia
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Posted - 2010.07.11 23:46:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Delyaria In Soviet Russia, Python reprograms YOU!
Well Psyco and PyPy both aim at making Python capable of "reprogramming" itself, so it¦s not that far fetched
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Delyaria
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Posted - 2010.07.12 00:15:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Amerilia
Originally by: Delyaria In Soviet Russia, Python reprograms YOU!
Well Psyco and PyPy both aim at making Python capable of "reprogramming" itself, so it¦s not that far fetched
amg evil languages!
*splashes holy water* The power of Christ compels you! The power of Christ compels you!
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Nozzie
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:09:00 -
[90]
Even if you double the code efficiency somehow, you wonÆt reduce lag significantly. The problem is that the computational intensity of fleet fights increases exponentially with the number of players in the fight. A 100% increase in computational capacity or code efficiency will not give you twice as many players in a fight without lag. The only solution would be multi threading, but that would open up a completely different can of worms.
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