Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Again I bring up the point that its still 100% secure.

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I don't think it is, why would they allow PLEX to drop if it were secure? I'm betting whoever picks it up can redeem/sell it as any other loot. It may be secure in that they wont get my personal or financial RL info, but nothing else

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Originally by: Akita T

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YOU GUYS DO KNOW THAT YOU CAN APPLY A PLEX FROM ANYWHERE IN THE GALAXY AS LONG AS IT IS IN ANY OF YOUR STATION HANGARS, RIGHT ?!?
AND THAT YOU CAN REDEEM A FRESHLY CASH-PURCHASED PLEX TO ANY STATION AT ANY TIME, YOU DON'T HAVE TO REDEEM IT WHERE YOU ARE NOW ?!?
Or that you can also sell it to or buy it from somebody else anywhere in the galaxy as long as you use a PRIVATE (as opposed to public) contract ?!?


If you're reckless enough to move your PLEX around ESPECIALLY when there's very little need to do so, you're also accepting the possibility of a loss.
The only people that NEED to move a PLEX are inter-station market traders, and for them losing a PLEX is no better nor worse than losing any other item worth about 300 mil ISK at this time.


PLEXes might be the closest thing to RL cash in EVE, but they're still just another in-game item, and should receive no special treatment.
Also, more PLEX destroyed = more potential cash in the future for CCP.
And that is a GOOD thing for all of us.



TL;DR : this change is made out of the letters W, I and N.

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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Isk earned INGAME through mining and such does NOT hold the same value to me as ISK I spent cash on and recieved through plex sales.
I could make a TRILLION isk in game with mining/PVE/Market or whatever and that isk is only worth $15 to me, as I only spend $15 a month membership. But if I spend $40 on a 2 month plex, lose one or both of them though theft or destruction before getting my value from them, Thats 600M isk that is worth RL $40 to me. It's a different value dynamic on ingame isk VS purchased isk, even though there is no technical difference.

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Originally by: democrities

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Do you think this will increase the value of plex?

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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The major difference between a PLEX and every other item ingame is that a PLEX can not created by an ingame activity. Every other item can somehow be created by things you do ingame.
A destruction of a capital fleet has no impact on real life (except for some tears). A destruction of a single PLEX does have an impact on the real world in the form that CCP now does not have to provide that 30 days of gametime.

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Originally by: Akita T

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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Isk earned INGAME through mining and such does NOT hold the same value to me as ISK I spent cash on and recieved through plex sales.
I could make a TRILLION isk in game with mining/PVE/Market or whatever and that isk is only worth $15 to me, as I only spend $15 a month membership. But if I spend $40 on a 2 month plex, lose one or both of them though theft or destruction before getting my value from them, Thats 600M isk that is worth RL $40 to me. It's a different value dynamic on ingame isk VS purchased isk, even though there is no technical difference.

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Irrational. Absurd. Naive. Unrealistic. Impractical. Emotion-laden nonsense.
Too bad a lot of other people feel the same way you do.
I want to beat the crap out of all of you (ingame) for thinking like that.
But barring that, I'll settle for a killmail with a PLEX on it.

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Originally by: Bankoff DarkFusion

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You guys who are defending this idea are out of your mind. You want to beat people to a pulp because theyI think this is dumb? I'm failing Eve by not lining up to say how great CCP is? CCP asked for feedback. Giving it to them is not whining.

Destroying an item that has been bought for cash so that the purchased service is never rendered is fraud. CCP could easily be sued over at least part of this change. You think that's unlikely? Companies get sued for stupid reasons every day.

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Originally by: Akita T

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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The major difference between a PLEX and every other item ingame is that a PLEX can not created by an ingame activity. Every other item can somehow be created by things you do ingame.
A destruction of a capital fleet has no impact on real life (except for some tears). A destruction of a single PLEX does have an impact on the real world in the form that CCP now does not have to provide that 30 days of gametime.

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The only GOOD reason for a PLEX to be moved by ship is if you purchased it from the market/contracts and want to sell it on the market/contracts in another station.
As such, it is for all practical intents and purposes just another in-game item.

There are MORE than enough safeguards//options in place so that the person that actually purchased the PLEX using RL cash never really HAS to move the PLEX by ship anywhere, as he can just "spawn" it in the in-game world at any station of his choosing with minimal effort.

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Originally by: Bankoff DarkFusion

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[They give them the item and they give them the option to use the item 100% securely. They cannot be successfully sued over this.

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Originally by: Bankoff DarkFusion

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[They give them the item and they give them the option to use the item 100% securely. They cannot be successfully sued over this.

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Originally by: Akita T

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If you buy a 35$ cigar in an air-tight package.
Scenario A : you light it, then go take a shower after taking the first puff, when you come back the cigar burned itself out
Scenario B : you open the seal, leave the cigar on your porch to go do something else for a while, a sudden rain comes over and ruins it, soaking it all wet and dragging it through the mud
Scenario C : you keep the package in your pocket, and on your way home some thief picks your pocket and steals it
... you don't scream at the tobacco shop for not being able to use the cigar as you intended, do you ?

ONCE REDEEMED, PLEX are in-game items, and they should not be treated any different from any other items.
BEFORE REDEEMING a PLEX, they are for all practical intents and purposes invulnerable.
There are next to no logical reasons (and maybe just one convenience//laziness reason) for a person that PURCHASED a PLEX with RL-cash to ever put that PLEX in a position where it MIGHT become vulnerable.

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Originally by: Ori Blake

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Edited by: Ori Blake on 09/07/2010 18:24:22

Originally by: Sakrak

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They shouldn't be destroyed or looted because:

1. They are the only item in the game you DIRECTLY pay for in real money.
2. They are the only item in the game that DIRECTLY gives subscription time.

All other items are one stage off from that, and I think too many people here are looking at it from the PLEX buyer side. That side I can't see them needing to transport it at all as opposed to redeeming it on the spot. To them it is just ISK, but to the sellers, it's a real money cost, and a direct one. For them if they lose it its a direct loss in real world assets to replace it. For a buyer they just grind more missions.

It's moot though I think because no sane seller is going to transport them, and CCP introduces yet another "feature" it makes little sense to use.

Quote:

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The problem here is that a few people feel that you own a PLEX when you buy it. That is not true. You rarely own anything on your computer except the hardware. If you notice, EULA's are End User Licensing Agreements, not End User Ownership Agreements. While courts continue to debate if you own or license software, at present, you license it. As such, anything you purchase is generally partially-owned by the originating company, and your license can be terminated by clauses stipulated in the agreement.

Now, the other thing people have a problem with is that if a player pwns you and destroys or loots your PLEX, you feel that you just got robbed of real money. However, in general, you're paying $X dollars per month. You spend most of your time in game, (which is what you have purchased) missioning and lets say you earn 100 million isk over that month time. Now, you use that isk to buy a BS and fittings. Effectively, you've turned $X into 1 BS with fittings. Now you're BS gets pwned. Why is this not stealing of real money. Just because it took more steps shouldn't change the equation. (I don't think it is just to clarify).

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I wish people would understand there is a difference between paying directly for something, and something having a cost due to the hours you put into it. One cost is actual: if you pay for a plex and it gets looted, to replace it you need to pay more real life money.

I agree its not real world theft due to EULA and licensing, but it's a generally stupid decision to add a feature that gives absolutely no benefit to an item you pay real money for while adding a ton of risk if you use the feature. Thankfully in this case you can just not transport them, so the end result wont be that harmful. But I have to ask why CCP cares so much about this when they could be fixing stuff that matters.

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