Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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Now this will be fun, Jita is going to go through the roof, and expect about 500% more emo rage quit posts ("Someone ganked me with 3 PLEXes in Cargo")

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Originally by: Zofe Stormcaller

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The first time someone gets ganked with a plex in the cargohold I want to see the killmail, and the impending forum thread of RRRRAAAAGGE and QQ.

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Originally by: siC0 b0b

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Edited by: siC0 b0b on 09/07/2010 16:28:00
Suprising how much an item, that's worth mere 300 milion ISK is suddenly pursuded as worthwhile to quit the game over.

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Originally by: Devil tiger

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Edited by: Devil tiger on 09/07/2010 16:21:21

Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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Now this will be fun, Jita is going to go through the roof, and expect about 500% more emo rage quit posts ("Someone ganked me with 3 PLEXes in Cargo")

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Which is what they deserve for being dumb as a brick by moving them in-game instead of redeeming them at location and thus avoiding any and all chances of being a victim of space piracy.

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Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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Now this will be fun, Jita is going to go through the roof, and expect about 500% more emo rage quit posts ("Someone ganked me with 3 PLEXes in Cargo")

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Originally by: Aqriue

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Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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Now this will be fun, Jita is going to go through the roof, and expect about 500% more emo rage quit posts ("Someone ganked me with 3 PLEXes in Cargo")

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No, it will a complete debacle on the end of CCP.

"Hello, XYZ Bank. How may I help you?"
"Hi. I noticed I have a suspicious charge on my account."
"Which one would that be?"
"The one marked CCP. Its over seas."
"Did you iniate that transaction?"
"No. I would like that charged stopped."
"Yes, we will look into it."

Making PLEXs destroyable and transportable is beyond stupid on the part of CCP. If I pay close to $40 USD after tax to the company, I expect to get the value of those PLEX and not loose it to some gank, **** off to any stupid concept of "Its a harsh universe." just because I grabbed it by mistake while loading junk with a ****ty UI interface provided by CCP. If by this statement; "If you blow up a ship that happens to be carrying PLEX, it may drop the PLEX as loot or it may be destroyed in the conflagration" there are currently to many PLEX and CCP wants to remove them, Then stop selling them for a time and change the PLEX offer to a three month subscription link for $10 USD more which has more value then pixelated decimal points. Watching real life cash get vaporized in a game is simply stupid, there will be subscriptions canceled by players and CCP will be eating sour words of "Yeah, we f***** up. Big Time."

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Originally by: Aqriue

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Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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Now this will be fun, Jita is going to go through the roof, and expect about 500% more emo rage quit posts ("Someone ganked me with 3 PLEXes in Cargo")

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No, it will a complete debacle on the end of CCP.

"Hello, XYZ Bank. How may I help you?"
"Hi. I noticed I have a suspicious charge on my account."
"Which one would that be?"
"The one marked CCP. Its over seas."
"Did you iniate that transaction?"
"No. I would like that charged stopped."
"Yes, we will look into it."

Making PLEXs destroyable and transportable is beyond stupid on the part of CCP. If I pay close to $40 USD after tax to the company, I expect to get the value of those PLEX and not loose it to some gank, **** off to any stupid concept of "Its a harsh universe." just because I grabbed it by mistake while loading junk with a ****ty UI interface provided by CCP. If by this statement; "If you blow up a ship that happens to be carrying PLEX, it may drop the PLEX as loot or it may be destroyed in the conflagration" there are currently to many PLEX and CCP wants to remove them, Then stop selling them for a time and change the PLEX offer to a three month subscription link for $10 USD more which has more value then pixelated decimal points. Watching real life cash get vaporized in a game is simply stupid, there will be subscriptions canceled by players and CCP will be eating sour words of "Yeah, we f***** up. Big Time."

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Originally by: Aqriue

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Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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Now this will be fun, Jita is going to go through the roof, and expect about 500% more emo rage quit posts ("Someone ganked me with 3 PLEXes in Cargo")

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No, it will a complete debacle on the end of CCP.

"Hello, XYZ Bank. How may I help you?"
"Hi. I noticed I have a suspicious charge on my account."
"Which one would that be?"
"The one marked CCP. Its over seas."
"Did you iniate that transaction?"
"No. I would like that charged stopped."
"Yes, we will look into it."

Making PLEXs destroyable and transportable is beyond stupid on the part of CCP. If I pay close to $40 USD after tax to the company, I expect to get the value of those PLEX and not loose it to some gank, **** off to any stupid concept of "Its a harsh universe." just because I grabbed it by mistake while loading junk with a ****ty UI interface provided by CCP. If by this statement; "If you blow up a ship that happens to be carrying PLEX, it may drop the PLEX as loot or it may be destroyed in the conflagration" there are currently to many PLEX and CCP wants to remove them, Then stop selling them for a time and change the PLEX offer to a three month subscription link for $10 USD more which has more value then pixelated decimal points. Watching real life cash get vaporized in a game is simply stupid, there will be subscriptions canceled by players and CCP will be eating sour words of "Yeah, we f***** up. Big Time."

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Originally by: Aqriue

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You fail.

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Originally by: Isolationist Cypher

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Just a heads up to those of you unable to comprehend this part....You are not *required* to transport a plex anywhere. If you don't want to risk it then go to the station you want to sell it at, and redeem it there. Vice versa, if you want to buy a plex for an alt....move the alt to the station, just like you always have. Nothing changes unless you want it to, the prices perhaps, but not your level of risk unless you CHOOSE to increase it.

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Originally by: Aqriue

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Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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Now this will be fun, Jita is going to go through the roof, and expect about 500% more emo rage quit posts ("Someone ganked me with 3 PLEXes in Cargo")

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No, it will a complete debacle on the end of CCP.

"Hello, XYZ Bank. How may I help you?"
"Hi. I noticed I have a suspicious charge on my account."
"Which one would that be?"
"The one marked CCP. Its over seas."
"Did you iniate that transaction?"
"No. I would like that charged stopped."
"Yes, we will look into it."

Making PLEXs destroyable and transportable is beyond stupid on the part of CCP. If I pay close to $40 USD after tax to the company, I expect to get the value of those PLEX and not loose it to some gank, **** off to any stupid concept of "Its a harsh universe." just because I grabbed it by mistake while loading junk with a ****ty UI interface provided by CCP. If by this statement; "If you blow up a ship that happens to be carrying PLEX, it may drop the PLEX as loot or it may be destroyed in the conflagration" there are currently to many PLEX and CCP wants to remove them, Then stop selling them for a time and change the PLEX offer to a three month subscription link for $10 USD more which has more value then pixelated decimal points. Watching real life cash get vaporized in a game is simply stupid, there will be subscriptions canceled by players and CCP will be eating sour words of "Yeah, we f***** up. Big Time."

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Originally by: CCP Shadow

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Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.

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Originally by: Lance Fighter

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i dont get it. People lose ships worth 300m very often.

Why do people not QQ over those losses as much? I mean, sure, 'first' t3 loss or similar, but honestly, when you all the sudden assume a real life money value on an item, it becomes worth crying over?


my pilgrim, worth about 6 usd died last night. I then spent another 5 or 6usd on a replacement. I regularly undock in my abaddon, currently worth about 10 usd in faction fittings to run missions. I often station camp in my archon, and current prices place that at around 40 dollars. 50 DOLLARS. SRSLY.

Remind me again why people rage over plex?

(note, all numbers pulled more or less out of my ass, assuming about 100m isk = 5 dollars. )

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Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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Originally by: Lance Fighter

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i dont get it. People lose ships worth 300m very often.

Why do people not QQ over those losses as much? I mean, sure, 'first' t3 loss or similar, but honestly, when you all the sudden assume a real life money value on an item, it becomes worth crying over?


my pilgrim, worth about 6 usd died last night. I then spent another 5 or 6usd on a replacement. I regularly undock in my abaddon, currently worth about 10 usd in faction fittings to run missions. I often station camp in my archon, and current prices place that at around 40 dollars. 50 DOLLARS. SRSLY.

Remind me again why people rage over plex?

(note, all numbers pulled more or less out of my ass, assuming about 100m isk = 5 dollars. )

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Ships cannot be used for actual play time. PLEXes can. And that's the difference.

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Quote:

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You may not violate any local, state, national or international laws or regulations.

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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This is wrong IMHO, This allows another player to directly STEAL my CASH PAID FOR item if i should chose to purchase a plex with cash. I'm sorry but CCP has absolutely no right to allow another gamer to directly affect/steal my RL money that I spent on a PLEX. I would even propose that IF a plex is dropped, To take it or destroy it might possibly a violation of the EULA. Specifically the subject of THEFT, even though it happens in game, As it affects an item purchased with Real Life cash, it may be subject to the terms in

http://www.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp

Specifically rule #7

Quote:

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You may not violate any local, state, national or international laws or regulations.

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Destruction/theft of property in most states and most of the civilized world is considered a violation of law. In most states, I do believe there is a legal distinction between virtual and physical item possession, however the same laws apply concerning the destruction/theft of items virtual or physical.

Since cash was paid for said item, any sort of claims that "it is just a game" do not apply

Since a PLEX is purchased in a lot of cases with CASH, the allowance of CCP games to allow the theft and/or destruction of property paid for with CASH opens them to litigation in most western countries that follow similar legal structures.

In Short, CCP allows a game mechanic that can financially damage me in the case of destroyed/stolen items that were purchased with cash.

This rule definitely conflicts with the rest of the game because the destruction of other property in the game is NOT PURCHASED with RL money. I pay $15 a month but I don't lose my game time if someone blows up my ship and it drops a bunch of modules. With the new change in rules I would lose that $15 with the destruction/theft of the plex.

This is UNACCEPTABLE

I can see this change of rules being allowed with PLEX being purchased with ingame isk but not PLEX being purchased with CASH

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Originally by: Ori Blake

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Originally by: Isolationist Cypher

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Just a heads up to those of you unable to comprehend this part....You are not *required* to transport a plex anywhere. If you don't want to risk it then go to the station you want to sell it at, and redeem it there. Vice versa, if you want to buy a plex for an alt....move the alt to the station, just like you always have. Nothing changes unless you want it to, the prices perhaps, but not your level of risk unless you CHOOSE to increase it.

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Is there any good reason to do so though? To actually move it as opposed to just redeem it in the station you want to sell in?

I'm not sure why they would change it. It's not like any other item, CCP: no other item lets you pay your monthly sub fees with it.

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Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 09/07/2010 17:50:48
You guys are a bunch of short-sighted whiners.

Check it out. You have a PLEX you want to sell. You want to sell it in X station. Instead of putting it in your cargo, LEAVE IT IN YOUR REDEEM ITEMS BOX (or convert it there or whatever) and then once you arrive to the destination get it out. Easy peasy.

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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This allows another player to directly STEAL my ... item

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Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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...except that you buy the code FOR the PLEX with cash, not the PLEX itself.

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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...except that you buy the code FOR the PLEX with cash, not the PLEX itself.

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It doesn't matter. The fact is that cash could be spent with the expectation that it would be applied toward my game time or whatever other reason I decide to use it for. That item, should it be destroyed or stolen is still an item that could be purchased for cash.

If I pay CASH for something, CCP should NOT introduce a game mechanic that allows theft or financial damage to me. It's that simple. Stealing a PLEX paid for with cash is on par with character theft IMHO. It's the same because in both cases CASH was spent on creating/maintaining my character. Character theft is illegal. So should PLEX theft be.

ANY ITEM anyone legally purchase in game should not be exposed to this game mechanic, no matter if there is a code or not.

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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...except that you buy the code FOR the PLEX with cash, not the PLEX itself.

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It doesn't matter. The fact is that cash could be spent with the expectation that it would be applied toward my game time or whatever other reason I decide to use it for. That item, should it be destroyed or stolen is still an item that could be purchased for cash.

If I pay CASH for something, CCP should NOT introduce a game mechanic that allows theft or financial damage to me. It's that simple. Stealing a PLEX paid for with cash is on par with character theft IMHO. It's the same because in both cases CASH was spent on creating/maintaining my character. Character theft is illegal. So should PLEX theft be.

ANY ITEM anyone legally purchase in game should not be exposed to this game mechanic, no matter if there is a code or not.

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Originally by: Elsymir Crystalblood

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Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with what you're paying for before paying for it.

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Originally by: Zofe Stormcaller

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The first time someone gets ganked with a plex in the cargohold I want to see the killmail, and the impending forum thread of RRRRAAAAGGE and QQ.

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Quote:

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Are you crazy? Do you know how many people will emoragequit when they're ganked with PLEX in their cargo?

Maybe we're a little crazy, yes, but we truly think the benefits outweigh the risks here. One of them is to combat the perception that PLEX is a more valuable item than others in the game which, of course, it isn't (anyone who has lost a titan/carrier/T2 BS/etc knows this full well). Among the risks of course is that people will start losing PLEXs' en masse and cancel their subscriptions. We will be monitoring that extremely closely as well as all other aspects of PLEX trade/usage patterns. Remember, we're not forcing anyone to undock with PLEX, in fact we're making things a little bit safer (if people choose to use the option) by allowing redeeming of PLEX to all stations instead of just NPC stations. The choice and risk is always at the discretion of the player, just like it should be.

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Originally by: Sakrak

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I think this topic just shows that Eve players will whine about anything. CCP is giving another option, that is it. You still have your 100% safe way of doing things.
To those that think a PLEX = Real Money. if a PLEX is money, what happens when you sell it for ISK? Does ISK = money then? If a = b, and b = c, then a = c. Does this mean that any item that is bought with ISK derived from a PLEX should not be able to be destroyed?

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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Originally by: Elsymir Crystalblood

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Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with what you're paying for before paying for it.

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Personally I don't use PLEX to maintain my characters. I pay once a year in cash so I won't be pulling around the PLEX in my cargohold. It's just the issue that no matter how you chose to look at it and no matter what kind of legal argument anyone can pose, To pay extra for something and to have it stolen/destroyed is wrong. CCP knows this i should hope.

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Originally by: Lance Fighter

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i dont get it. People lose ships worth 300m very often.

Remind me again why people rage over plex?

(note, all numbers pulled more or less out of my ass, assuming about 100m isk = 5 dollars. )

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Originally by: Riedle

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Deos the fact that your argument is illogical make any difference?
Say I sell plex and immediately buy a T3 and said T3 done get blowed up - is that wrong too?
Your arguments says that it is - yet seemingly you don't rage about that.

Try to understand something first before you come out an whine about it.
Especially something that you say will not affect you.

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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Originally by: Riedle

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Deos the fact that your argument is illogical make any difference?
Say I sell plex and immediately buy a T3 and said T3 done get blowed up - is that wrong too?
Your arguments says that it is - yet seemingly you don't rage about that.

Try to understand something first before you come out an whine about it.
Especially something that you say will not affect you.

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No You are expounding on my original argument and putting hypotheticals on a specific situation. As Ori Blake said, Everything else is a one off. Top level only concerns me.

Once the plex is redeemed, it is gone. Whatever else happens with the proceeds ,whether its isk profit from sale or a 30 day player extension, it is susceptible to the accepted game mechanics. That doesn't bother me. I don't have a single problem with losing a 300M isk ship should I sell a plex. It's the fact that having the CASH paid for plex stolen it before redeeming/selling it. THATS what I have a problem with. whatever is done AFTER I get my CASH value from it matters not to me

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Originally by: Riedle

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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Originally by: Riedle

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Deos the fact that your argument is illogical make any difference?
Say I sell plex and immediately buy a T3 and said T3 done get blowed up - is that wrong too?
Your arguments says that it is - yet seemingly you don't rage about that.

Try to understand something first before you come out an whine about it.
Especially something that you say will not affect you.

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No You are expounding on my original argument and putting hypotheticals on a specific situation. As Ori Blake said, Everything else is a one off. Top level only concerns me.

Once the plex is redeemed, it is gone. Whatever else happens with the proceeds ,whether its isk profit from sale or a 30 day player extension, it is susceptible to the accepted game mechanics. That doesn't bother me. I don't have a single problem with losing a 300M isk ship should I sell a plex. It's the fact that having the CASH paid for plex stolen it before redeeming/selling it. THATS what I have a problem with. whatever is done AFTER I get my CASH value from it matters not to me

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But the plex is an ingame item just like the ship. 300 million isk in a raven or in a plex is the same exact value. The format they are in-game matters not.
Engage the left side of your brain.

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Originally by: Riedle

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\

But the plex is an ingame item just like the ship. 300 million isk in a raven or in a plex is the same exact value. The format they are in-game matters not.
Engage the left side of your brain.

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Originally by: Ori Blake

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I agree its not real world theft due to EULA and licensing, but it's a generally stupid decision to add a feature that gives absolutely no benefit to an item you pay real money for while adding a ton of risk if you use the feature. Thankfully in this case you can just not transport them, so the end result wont be that harmful. But I have to ask why CCP cares so much about this when they could be fixing stuff that matters.

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Again I bring up the point that its still 100% secure.

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Again I bring up the point that its still 100% secure.

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I don't think it is, why would they allow PLEX to drop if it were secure? I'm betting whoever picks it up can redeem/sell it as any other loot. It may be secure in that they wont get my personal or financial RL info, but nothing else

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Originally by: Akita T

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YOU GUYS DO KNOW THAT YOU CAN APPLY A PLEX FROM ANYWHERE IN THE GALAXY AS LONG AS IT IS IN ANY OF YOUR STATION HANGARS, RIGHT ?!?
AND THAT YOU CAN REDEEM A FRESHLY CASH-PURCHASED PLEX TO ANY STATION AT ANY TIME, YOU DON'T HAVE TO REDEEM IT WHERE YOU ARE NOW ?!?
Or that you can also sell it to or buy it from somebody else anywhere in the galaxy as long as you use a PRIVATE (as opposed to public) contract ?!?


If you're reckless enough to move your PLEX around ESPECIALLY when there's very little need to do so, you're also accepting the possibility of a loss.
The only people that NEED to move a PLEX are inter-station market traders, and for them losing a PLEX is no better nor worse than losing any other item worth about 300 mil ISK at this time.


PLEXes might be the closest thing to RL cash in EVE, but they're still just another in-game item, and should receive no special treatment.
Also, more PLEX destroyed = more potential cash in the future for CCP.
And that is a GOOD thing for all of us.



TL;DR : this change is made out of the letters W, I and N.

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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Isk earned INGAME through mining and such does NOT hold the same value to me as ISK I spent cash on and recieved through plex sales.
I could make a TRILLION isk in game with mining/PVE/Market or whatever and that isk is only worth $15 to me, as I only spend $15 a month membership. But if I spend $40 on a 2 month plex, lose one or both of them though theft or destruction before getting my value from them, Thats 600M isk that is worth RL $40 to me. It's a different value dynamic on ingame isk VS purchased isk, even though there is no technical difference.

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Originally by: democrities

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Do you think this will increase the value of plex?

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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The major difference between a PLEX and every other item ingame is that a PLEX can not created by an ingame activity. Every other item can somehow be created by things you do ingame.
A destruction of a capital fleet has no impact on real life (except for some tears). A destruction of a single PLEX does have an impact on the real world in the form that CCP now does not have to provide that 30 days of gametime.

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Originally by: Akita T

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Originally by: Melkath Bandrom

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Isk earned INGAME through mining and such does NOT hold the same value to me as ISK I spent cash on and recieved through plex sales.
I could make a TRILLION isk in game with mining/PVE/Market or whatever and that isk is only worth $15 to me, as I only spend $15 a month membership. But if I spend $40 on a 2 month plex, lose one or both of them though theft or destruction before getting my value from them, Thats 600M isk that is worth RL $40 to me. It's a different value dynamic on ingame isk VS purchased isk, even though there is no technical difference.

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Irrational. Absurd. Naive. Unrealistic. Impractical. Emotion-laden nonsense.
Too bad a lot of other people feel the same way you do.
I want to beat the crap out of all of you (ingame) for thinking like that.
But barring that, I'll settle for a killmail with a PLEX on it.

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Originally by: Bankoff DarkFusion

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You guys who are defending this idea are out of your mind. You want to beat people to a pulp because theyI think this is dumb? I'm failing Eve by not lining up to say how great CCP is? CCP asked for feedback. Giving it to them is not whining.

Destroying an item that has been bought for cash so that the purchased service is never rendered is fraud. CCP could easily be sued over at least part of this change. You think that's unlikely? Companies get sued for stupid reasons every day.

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Originally by: Akita T

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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The major difference between a PLEX and every other item ingame is that a PLEX can not created by an ingame activity. Every other item can somehow be created by things you do ingame.
A destruction of a capital fleet has no impact on real life (except for some tears). A destruction of a single PLEX does have an impact on the real world in the form that CCP now does not have to provide that 30 days of gametime.

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The only GOOD reason for a PLEX to be moved by ship is if you purchased it from the market/contracts and want to sell it on the market/contracts in another station.
As such, it is for all practical intents and purposes just another in-game item.

There are MORE than enough safeguards//options in place so that the person that actually purchased the PLEX using RL cash never really HAS to move the PLEX by ship anywhere, as he can just "spawn" it in the in-game world at any station of his choosing with minimal effort.

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Originally by: Bankoff DarkFusion

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[They give them the item and they give them the option to use the item 100% securely. They cannot be successfully sued over this.

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Originally by: Bankoff DarkFusion

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[They give them the item and they give them the option to use the item 100% securely. They cannot be successfully sued over this.

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Originally by: Akita T

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If you buy a 35$ cigar in an air-tight package.
Scenario A : you light it, then go take a shower after taking the first puff, when you come back the cigar burned itself out
Scenario B : you open the seal, leave the cigar on your porch to go do something else for a while, a sudden rain comes over and ruins it, soaking it all wet and dragging it through the mud
Scenario C : you keep the package in your pocket, and on your way home some thief picks your pocket and steals it
... you don't scream at the tobacco shop for not being able to use the cigar as you intended, do you ?

ONCE REDEEMED, PLEX are in-game items, and they should not be treated any different from any other items.
BEFORE REDEEMING a PLEX, they are for all practical intents and purposes invulnerable.
There are next to no logical reasons (and maybe just one convenience//laziness reason) for a person that PURCHASED a PLEX with RL-cash to ever put that PLEX in a position where it MIGHT become vulnerable.

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Originally by: Ori Blake

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Edited by: Ori Blake on 09/07/2010 18:24:22

Originally by: Sakrak

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They shouldn't be destroyed or looted because:

1. They are the only item in the game you DIRECTLY pay for in real money.
2. They are the only item in the game that DIRECTLY gives subscription time.

All other items are one stage off from that, and I think too many people here are looking at it from the PLEX buyer side. That side I can't see them needing to transport it at all as opposed to redeeming it on the spot. To them it is just ISK, but to the sellers, it's a real money cost, and a direct one. For them if they lose it its a direct loss in real world assets to replace it. For a buyer they just grind more missions.

It's moot though I think because no sane seller is going to transport them, and CCP introduces yet another "feature" it makes little sense to use.

Quote:

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The problem here is that a few people feel that you own a PLEX when you buy it. That is not true. You rarely own anything on your computer except the hardware. If you notice, EULA's are End User Licensing Agreements, not End User Ownership Agreements. While courts continue to debate if you own or license software, at present, you license it. As such, anything you purchase is generally partially-owned by the originating company, and your license can be terminated by clauses stipulated in the agreement.

Now, the other thing people have a problem with is that if a player pwns you and destroys or loots your PLEX, you feel that you just got robbed of real money. However, in general, you're paying $X dollars per month. You spend most of your time in game, (which is what you have purchased) missioning and lets say you earn 100 million isk over that month time. Now, you use that isk to buy a BS and fittings. Effectively, you've turned $X into 1 BS with fittings. Now you're BS gets pwned. Why is this not stealing of real money. Just because it took more steps shouldn't change the equation. (I don't think it is just to clarify).

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I wish people would understand there is a difference between paying directly for something, and something having a cost due to the hours you put into it. One cost is actual: if you pay for a plex and it gets looted, to replace it you need to pay more real life money.

I agree its not real world theft due to EULA and licensing, but it's a generally stupid decision to add a feature that gives absolutely no benefit to an item you pay real money for while adding a ton of risk if you use the feature. Thankfully in this case you can just not transport them, so the end result wont be that harmful. But I have to ask why CCP cares so much about this when they could be fixing stuff that matters.

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Originally by: greentusk

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The only people who benefit from a plex being destroyed is CCP. There is absolutely zero reason for allowing plexes to be transported.

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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CCP has simply provided another mechanism to prove you are stupid.

Try not to prove them right this time.

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Originally by: Chesty McJubblies

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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CCP has simply provided another mechanism to prove you are stupid.

Try not to prove them right this time.

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With a nice side effect for their balance sheet, too.

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Quote:

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So CCP want to remove the "special status" that players gave to Plexes. Well, I don't care. But as long than Plexes are the ONLY item who can be bought using real money to a GTC in this game, and also the only one who can be "redeemed", they will KEEP their "special status", whatever they do.

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Originally by: Bankoff DarkFusion

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Just canceled the last of my 3 accounts. I feel pounds lighter knowing that I am getting this game out of my life. I might have stayed longer if I hadn't started reading the forums. Maybe the bullying in the game is not "real" but the bullying on the forums certainly is. Good luck to all the carebears.

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Originally by: Ori Blake

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Originally by: Akita T

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If you buy a 35$ cigar in an air-tight package.
Scenario A : you light it, then go take a shower after taking the first puff, when you come back the cigar burned itself out
Scenario B : you open the seal, leave the cigar on your porch to go do something else for a while, a sudden rain comes over and ruins it, soaking it all wet and dragging it through the mud
Scenario C : you keep the package in your pocket, and on your way home some thief picks your pocket and steals it
... you don't scream at the tobacco shop for not being able to use the cigar as you intended, do you ?

ONCE REDEEMED, PLEX are in-game items, and they should not be treated any different from any other items.
BEFORE REDEEMING a PLEX, they are for all practical intents and purposes invulnerable.
There are next to no logical reasons (and maybe just one convenience//laziness reason) for a person that PURCHASED a PLEX with RL-cash to ever put that PLEX in a position where it MIGHT become vulnerable.

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Yeah, but that is accidental use common to life. This is something different entirely, making a feature which does nothing but increase the risk of loss.

It would be more like you having a favorite cigar shop. One day that shop for rent reasons moves from its old location to a new one that happens to be in the worst side of town. That area has a high risk of robberies. You go there, chances are someone might stick you up for your cigar.

It's not the same because no one forces you to transport plex, but no one also forces you to go to that shop, and there's little reason to since you can get the exact same kind at the local convienience store. I think then you have a case to be miffed at your favorite shop for making a bad move.

But I think in the end CCP would just do it and people wouldn't transport them anyways. I agree with you on the risk at that part. Transporting it you risk it yourself.

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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If, and only if, you are indeed stupid.

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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If, and only if, you are indeed stupid.

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Its not a question of if an individual is stupid or not. But its a fact that there are more than enough stupid people arround and CCP knows that. Its one thing to scam people out of there in game assets but an completly other withdraw real and paid gametime from the (stupid) players. Its almost like if you could lose your Windows licence by clicking on the wrong button.

PLEXs are paid gametime. Removing them from the game in whatever way is not ok!

Elgaris.

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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If, and only if, you are indeed stupid.

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Its not a question of if an individual is stupid or not. But its a fact that there are more than enough stupid people arround and CCP knows that. Its one thing to scam people out of there in game assets but an completly other withdraw real and paid gametime from the (stupid) players. Its almost like if you could lose your Windows licence by clicking on the wrong button.

PLEXs are paid game time. Removing them from the game in whatever way is not ok!

Elgaris.

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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Edited by: Ranger 1 on 09/07/2010 22:10:55

Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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If, and only if, you are indeed stupid.

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Its not a question of if an individual is stupid or not. But its a fact that there are more than enough stupid people arround and CCP knows that. Its one thing to scam people out of there in game assets but an completly other withdraw real and paid gametime from the (stupid) players. Its almost like if you could lose your Windows licence by clicking on the wrong button.

PLEXs are paid game time. Removing them from the game in whatever way is not ok!

Elgaris.

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No GTC's are paid game time. A PLEX is simply an worthless icon ingame that allows you to sell or trade that time to another person. Once converted into a plex it is the same as any other ingame item.

If you wish to attach values associated with the real world cost of a GTC, then every item that you have ingame has a value in real money. That Hulk that just got ganked blew a $5 hole in your bank account. Because, by your reasoning, that Hulk could have converted into isk on the market and that would have covered part of the cost of a plex. However since ingame items have no value, and are in fact CCP property, Plex retain no real world value. Period.

On the other point, yes I am sure there are plenty of stupid people that will decide to move a Plex (despite all warnings). These are the same people that will lose the same "fictional value" as a plex many times over in other ingame assets due to the very same stupidity.

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Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

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however fundamentally your position is CCP has a duty to prevent players from doing something stupidly dumb and pointless,

by that logic, CCP will have to trap in stations or ban half the paying customers until they are statisfied they wont fly a fail fit or autopilot through lowsec etc etc

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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Edited by: Elgaris Dukor on 09/07/2010 22:27:47

Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

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however fundamentally your position is CCP has a duty to prevent players from doing something stupidly dumb and pointless,

by that logic, CCP will have to trap in stations or ban half the paying customers until they are statisfied they wont fly a fail fit or autopilot through lowsec etc etc

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No, i think the fundamental misconception of CCP (and maybe you too) is that because a PLEX has a value equal to say a well fitted ship that it is the same thing to lose the ship or the PLEX. That is not that case. Even if the lost value is equal there are some fundamental differences:
- The ship can be replaced by ingame activity (gathering resources and rebuilding the ship or hubting NPCs for the lost modules). The PLEX can not be replaced by any ingame activity. Once its lost it has to be purchased again or its gone forever.
- The PLEX can be converted to gametime, which is a real life thing, the ship not. IF the PLEX is destroyed the paid gametime is gone too.


Maybe i should make an example.
Case 1)
Player A buys a GTC to convert it to PLEXs and sells them for isk to Player B. PLayer A buys a ship from that money and destroys it.
=> Player A has lost his ship but the paid gametime is still owned by Player B.
Case 2)
Player A buys a GTC to convert it to PLEXs and destroys them (in whatever way).
=> The gametime that has been paid for is gone. Neither Player A or PLayer B has it.

Elgaris.

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Originally by: Cap II

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The fault in your statement is where you say that a plex cannot be replaced in game. Simply rat up 300mil isk and the plex is replaced.

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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Originally by: Cap II

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The fault in your statement is where you say that a plex cannot be replaced in game. Simply rat up 300mil isk and the plex is replaced.

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No you are wrong here. You can rat 300m but that does not replace the Ship. The Ship is gone. You can buy an other one from another player but the first one stays gone.
The only way to replave a Ship is to buy a miner and convert it into a rocks and build the ship.. There is no ingame source of ships.

Elgaris.

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Originally by: siC0 b0b

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You convert GTC into a PLEX purely to legaly make ISK outside of the game, that's the reason this item was implemented. If you lose a PLEX to whatever reason, it's the same as losing an equal amount of ISK in any other way.

PLEX is only an item in the game that is valued in ingame currency and it rightfuly so is going to be treated as one. I'm inclined to believe that if CCP didn't incluce the part in their DevBlog about ragequitting, none of the complaining people would even speak up. This all sounds like an easily manipulated mob's rabble.

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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Originally by: siC0 b0b

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You convert GTC into a PLEX purely to legaly make ISK outside of the game, that's the reason this item was implemented. If you lose a PLEX to whatever reason, it's the same as losing an equal amount of ISK in any other way.

PLEX is only an item in the game that is valued in ingame currency and it rightfuly so is going to be treated as one. I'm inclined to believe that if CCP didn't incluce the part in their DevBlog about ragequitting, none of the complaining people would even speak up. This all sounds like an easily manipulated mob's rabble.

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That is what CCP tries to tell us but that is just not true, sorry.
The fact that you can convert the PLEX to gametime, which is nothing virtual but something very real, makes PLEXs a special thing.

Elgaris.

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Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

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so because i can turn a plex into gametime it is special even if i dont do so?

if so i can turn 300mil into a plex, into gametime, so 300mil is special,

if so i can turn a Carrier into 600mil isk into plex into gametime so a carrier is special


once you equate a thing with an isk cost to being special all things that can be converted into said isk and the isk itself must be special by extension,

you treat a plex as a potential energy of time, and that temporal potential as being special, thus all things must be special because all things are a potential of time,

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Originally by: Cap II

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Tell me, is it painful to be this stupid? Because if it isn't, it should be.

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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Originally by: Cap II

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Tell me, is it painful to be this stupid? Because if it isn't, it should be.

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Well its obvious that you disagree with my statements, but maybe you could elaborate a bit more on why you think I am stupid, so I can learn from your greatness.

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Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

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so because i can turn a plex into gametime it is special even if i dont do so?

if so i can turn 300mil into a plex, into gametime, so 300mil is special,

if so i can turn a Carrier into 600mil isk into plex into gametime so a carrier is special


once you equate a thing with an isk cost to being special all things that can be converted into said isk and the isk itself must be special by extension,

you treat a plex as a potential energy of time, and that temporal potential as being special, thus all things must be special because all things are a potential of time,

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Originally by: Elgaris Dukor

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Edited by: Elgaris Dukor on 09/07/2010 23:15:59

Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

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so because i can turn a plex into gametime it is special even if i dont do so?

if so i can turn 300mil into a plex, into gametime, so 300mil is special,

if so i can turn a Carrier into 600mil isk into plex into gametime so a carrier is special


once you equate a thing with an isk cost to being special all things that can be converted into said isk and the isk itself must be special by extension,

you treat a plex as a potential energy of time, and that temporal potential as being special, thus all things must be special because all things are a potential of time,

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I say just because two things do have the same value doenst mean they are equal. As long as the PLEX stays intact there is indeed no difference but as soon as the PLEX gets destroys there is one.

It makes a difference if a PLEX or a 300m module gets destroyed. That is what i say. I explained the reasons some posts above.

Elgaris.

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Originally by: Aqriue

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Originally by: Dan O'Connor

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Now this will be fun, Jita is going to go through the roof, and expect about 500% more emo rage quit posts ("Someone ganked me with 3 PLEXes in Cargo")

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No, it will a complete debacle on the end of CCP.

"Hello, XYZ Bank. How may I help you?"
"Hi. I noticed I have a suspicious charge on my account."
"Which one would that be?"
"The one marked CCP. Its over seas."
"Did you iniate that transaction?"
"No. I would like that charged stopped."
"Yes, we will look into it."

Making PLEXs destroyable and transportable is beyond stupid on the part of CCP. If I pay close to $40 USD after tax to the company, I expect to get the value of those PLEX and not loose it to some gank, **** off to any stupid concept of "Its a harsh universe." just because I grabbed it by mistake while loading junk with a ****ty UI interface provided by CCP. If by this statement; "If you blow up a ship that happens to be carrying PLEX, it may drop the PLEX as loot or it may be destroyed in the conflagration" there are currently to many PLEX and CCP wants to remove them, Then stop selling them for a time and change the PLEX offer to a three month subscription link for $10 USD more which has more value then pixelated decimal points. Watching real life cash get vaporized in a game is simply stupid, there will be subscriptions canceled by players and CCP will be eating sour words of "Yeah, we f***** up. Big Time."

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Nobody is forcing you to undock with PLEXs in your hold.

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Originally by: Takashi Halamoto

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but a plex IS NOT game time, it is the potential to get game time, it in and of itself is not the game time merely a trade able commodity that can be exchanged for time, thus it is the same as the module or cash which i could exchange for plex then exchange for time

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Originally by: Larkonis Trassler

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Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 09/07/2010 17:50:48
You guys are a bunch of short-sighted whiners.

Check it out. You have a PLEX you want to sell. You want to sell it in X station. Instead of putting it in your cargo, LEAVE IT IN YOUR REDEEM ITEMS BOX (or convert it there or whatever) and then once you arrive to the destination get it out. Easy peasy.

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Hey Siig, talking of redeem items boxes, still waiting on that 2 bil to show up in mine.

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