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Jita Jenn
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Posted - 2010.07.11 02:37:00 -
[1]
I'm sure it's been suggested before but how about a T2 BS logistics ship? We need a T2 BS we can use for PvP and logistics cruisers are just too fragile in med-large fleet fights.
Caldari already have an ECM BS (and T1 cruiser logi), so maybe give Amarr an armor BS logi and Gallente and/or Minmatar a shield BS logi. They don't even need to be T2.
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Quesa
D00M. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.07.11 02:49:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Quesa on 11/07/2010 02:49:30 You might be able to make an argument for a BC class logistics but I can't see them introducing a BS class logistics ship.
As it stands now, the Logistic ships do and scale very well.
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Trofles
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Posted - 2010.07.11 02:59:00 -
[3]
I would lve to see BS level logi. However, I would argue BS level logi would die even faster. the current logi use speed and small size to survive. This means an opposing side needs to use ships smaller than a BC to kill a logistics. If they were bs sized they would be primaried and die every time. Still I would like to see them!
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2010.07.11 04:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jita Jenn logistics cruisers are just too fragile in med-large fleet fights.
They aren't.
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Laxyr
Chamsin Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.11 16:39:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Laxyr on 11/07/2010 16:42:36 Currently we have two different types of logistics
- The fast ones for small operations / stand-alone logistic (Oneiros/Scimitar) - The slow ones for fleet ops / tandem /spidertank use (Guardian/Basilisk)
I don't see why we need a BS sized logistic when you can just put 3 Basilisks together in a capchain. Those 3 will rep much more and endure much more damage than a BS class vessel. Now, being able to do the same thing with 3 BS class logistics would be superflous in my opinion... they might rep more but they would take a considerably higher amount of damage themselves
Regards, Lax
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr GK inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.11 21:56:00 -
[6]
I think you should try using the logistics in practice, rather than basing yourself off of arbitrary EFT numbers.
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Laina Delapore
Caldari Red Sun Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.12 11:33:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jita Jenn
Caldari already have...([a] T1 cruiser logi)
So does every other race. Augoror, Exqueror (or however the bloody thing is spelt), Scythe.
Also, Black Ops. Furthermore, logistics cruisers are not too fragile for med-large fleet fights. |
DrysonBennington
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Posted - 2010.07.12 15:40:00 -
[8]
Edited by: DrysonBennington on 12/07/2010 15:42:53 Edited by: DrysonBennington on 12/07/2010 15:41:25 Let's think about this idea for a second. If you were a fleet admiral would you want some little cruiser trying to keep your Mothership, Dreadnought or Titan repaired during an engagement? No your wouldn't it isnt pratical either. A new ship built around the Megathron Hull would be the BS logistics that you are calling for.
I used the Kronos for my base design.
T-1 name: Juba Hull: Kronos
Structure - 8000/8000 Capacity - 500 m3 Drone Capacity - 100 m3 Drone Bandwidth - 100 mb/sec Mass - 101.8 mkg Volume - 480 km3 (50,000 m3 packaged) Inertia Modifier .120 Em Dmg Resist - 0% Exp Dmg Resist - 0% Kin Dmg resist - 0% Therm Dmg Resist - 0%
Armor - 7300/7300 Armor EM Dmg Resist - 50% Armor Exp Dmg Resist - 12% Armor Kin Dmg Resist - 51% Armor Therm Dmg Resist - 42%
Shield - 0/7000 Recharge Time - 2000.00 Shield Em Dmg Resist - 5% Shield Exp Dmg Resist - 52% Shield Kin Dmg Resist - 57% Shield Thermal Dmg Resist - 32%
Capacitor - 0/5700 Recharge Time - 900 sec Targeting Max Targeting Range 65km Max Locked Targets 8 Scan resolution 100 mn Sig radius 500 Max Velocity 150 m/sec Ship Warp Speed 4.0 AU/S
Fitting CPU - 0/600 Powergrid 0/14000 Calibration 0/400 Low Slots - 5 Med Slots - 7 High Slots - 8 Turret Hardpoints - 2 Upgrade Hardpoints - 2
50% bonus to shield transporter module range 50% bonus to remote repair module range 15% bonus to drone range 5% bonus to repair amount of shield and armor drones
T-2 Name: Mousavi Hull: Kronos
structure - 8500/8500 capacity - 250 m3 Drone capacity 200 m3 Drone bandwidth - 200 mb/sec (achieveable with new Sleeper Drone AI Technology)
Armor - 9500/9500 Shield- 0/8000
Capacitor 0/6000 recharge time 750 sec
Max Targeting Range 75km
Max velocity 200 m/sec
Fitting
CPU - 0/700 Powergrid - 0/15000 Low slots- 6 Med Slots- 6 High Slots-8
25% bonus to shield transporter module range + 15% bonus to shield transporter amount 25% bonus to remote armor repair module range + 15% bonus to armor repair amount 5% bonus to drone range 10% bonus to repair amount of shield and armor drones
Primea Add-ons (can only store certain items in each compartment) Ammunition Storage Compartment - 1000 m3 of any one type of ammo Battery Storage Compartment - 500 m3 of battery storage Nanite Repair Paste Compartment - 100 m3 of Nanite repair paste.
The NRPC operates by using an add-on in the form of a rig called the Nanite Repair Paste Atomizer Rig. The NRPAR atomizes the paste in the compartment at a rate of 5 m3 per cycle with a cycle time of 1:00. When the cycle time has reached it's limit the paste is then transfered to the Nanite Remote Armor Repair Module (NRARM). The NRARM then applies the paste to the armor of a ship and hull where each level of skill learnt to level five will add a 2% bonus to armor repair per level and a 5% hull remote repair amount per level. The NRARM would have a range limit due to the atomization effect of the paste. Level 1 NRARM - 5km Level 2 NRARM - 7km Level 3 NRARM - 9km Level 4 NRARM - 12km Level 5 NRARM - 14km
The NRARM could only be used on the T-2 variant. Both ships would require the same skills to be learnt to pilot the marauder series of ships
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.07.12 16:42:00 -
[9]
There is no need for a BS logistics ship. Between carriers and current logistics you have a near perfect scaling with triage carrier being roughly 4-5 times as effective as cruiser with appropriately high EHP for the large fights .. Adding a BS step would break high-sec even more and risks obsoleting cruiser logistics in all the medium engagements where they currently ply their trade.
Originally by: Laina Delapore ...
Augoror, cap is life! Dying with full cap makes you immortal afterwards as a zombie! Scythe, at least your guns can track a gnat while you get blown to bits!
Only Caldari and Gallente have T1 logistics, Amarr and Minmatar have jokes. Not even worth mentioning together with Osprey and Exequror.
Also: What does Blacks have to do with logistics? Unless you mean moving crap around which is not really the topic
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DrysonBennington
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Posted - 2010.07.12 16:52:00 -
[10]
The cruiser sized logistics ships are meant to be used on frigates to battleships. Carriers are not designed to be remote repairing platforms. Carriers are meant to bring the pain to the battlefield. By having a BS sized logistics ship will free up the repping carriers for combat duty which I am certain that each corp that employs carriers in their fleets would rather have two combat capitals in the zone as opposed tow having one comabt ship and a hospital ship. You should up your mind to new ideas instead of being Caldari all of the time...you might live longer.
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DrysonBennington
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Posted - 2010.07.12 17:09:00 -
[11]
Edited by: DrysonBennington on 12/07/2010 17:20:01 Edited by: DrysonBennington on 12/07/2010 17:14:29 Edited by: DrysonBennington on 12/07/2010 17:09:47 b]Also: What does Blacks have to do with logistics? Unless you mean moving crap around which is not really the topic [/b]
Logitsical ships are designed for one purpose and that is too keep a fleet supplied with ammo and other other necessities.
I have listed the different real world Naval Classes of ships that I have used to create the Mousavi.
Ammunition Ship Combat Stores Ships Repair Ships Surveillance Ships
All of which have been cold rolled into one Logistics ship
Fast Combat Support Ships
Juba add-ons:
200 m3 Ammunition Storage Compartment 200 m3 Battery Storage Compartment 15% reduction in capacitor need of probe launchers 5% reduction in probe scanning time 10% reduction in capacitor need of cloaking modules
Mousavi add-ons:
capacity changed from 250 m3 to 600 m3 5% reduction in capacitor need of probe launchers 15% reduction in probe scanning time 15% eduction in capacitor need of cloaking modules
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Quesa
D00M. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.07.12 17:23:00 -
[12]
DrysonBennington, I think people can appreciate your suggestions, in a way but there are many things you are off on it's not even funny.
Carriers are big logistics vehicles, they don't "bring the pain".
All the bonuses in your last post don't make a bit of sense.
I really think you should learn more about the game and the way it works before posting.
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DrysonBennington
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Posted - 2010.07.12 17:26:00 -
[13]
Nope carriers are combat vessels meant to deliver high volumes of drones, missiles and provide ECM to the ships around it.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.07.12 18:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: DrysonBennington Nope carriers are combat vessels meant to deliver high volumes of drones, missiles and provide ECM to the ships around it.
Are you talking real world carriers? Fits better with them than what we see in Eve. In game a carrier puts out about the same damage as a gank/plate BS (~1k dps) and has 10+ times the EHP (~1.5M EHP) or there about. Doesn't require great math skills to realise that one is better off using a carrier in triage (equivalent to 4-6 logistics cruisers!) to support the gank/plate BS group instead of using it as a drone/fighter platform.
That support ship you have cooked up is easily trumped by a cargo expanded Blockade Runner and/or Carrier, and would thus see no use - even for station games a carrier would be superior so they would only ever be used in high-sec dock monkey scenarios ..
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.07.12 18:45:00 -
[15]
For sub-cap spidertanks of doom? No thanks. As has been said it would very likely have a negative impact on high-sec. Plus BS-sized logistics aren't needed at all. Current logistics lock faster and they do their job perfectly fine. If you want more, a carrier is what you need. But you have to commit to low-sec or 0.0.
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Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
DrysonBennington
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Posted - 2010.07.12 19:52:00 -
[16]
Are you talking real world carriers? Fits better with them than what we see in Eve. In game a carrier puts out about the same damage as a gank/plate BS (~1k dps) and has 10+ times the EHP (~1.5M EHP) or there about. Doesn't require great math skills to realise that one is better off using a carrier in triage (equivalent to 4-6 logistics cruisers!) to support the gank/plate BS group instead of using it as a drone/fighter platform.
That support ship you have cooked up is easily trumped by a cargo expanded Blockade Runner and/or Carrier, and would thus see no use - even for station games a carrier would be superior so they would only ever be used in high-sec dock monkey scenarios ..
Using the carrier as a logistics ship is a total waste of combat potential. I would rather have two fully combat ready carriers on station supported by three or four of my heavy logistics ships then having one carrier supported by one logistics carrier with the puny cruiser providing additional support. Total waste of resources when either one of the carriers are lost.
I sure hope that you are not the military planner for your corporation as you have problably cost your CEO more isk than you have brought to the table.
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DrysonBennington
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Posted - 2010.07.12 20:00:00 -
[17]
I can safely say that a squadron of carriers supported my heavy logistics ships will easily defeat your fleet of carriers supported by logistics carriers and logistics cruisers.
100% certain for that matter.
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Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
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Posted - 2010.07.12 20:20:00 -
[18]
I sure hope you're trolling, Dryson. If so, good on you. I particularly like that "Kronos Hull" bit. Inspired.
All the good arguments have been made already. Logi cruisers are ample for any and all sub-capital applications. T1 battleships can do great things with logistics modules already, without needed special bonuses. Carriers can pump out the reps in capital situations and do it very well, at the expense of mobility. There's no need for a logistics-specialized battleship-class vessel in EvE. Use a Dominix or something. ======================
Crusades: Security Status |
DrysonBennington
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Posted - 2010.07.14 23:10:00 -
[19]
Using the carrier as a repper ship to support another carrier makes about as much sense as sticking your finger into a pencil sharpener.
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2010.07.14 23:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: DrysonBennington Using the carrier as a repper ship to support another carrier makes about as much sense as sticking your finger into a pencil sharpener.
They must have some sharp fingers.
Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
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WaffleOfDoom
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Posted - 2010.07.15 04:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: DrysonBennington Using the carrier as a repper ship to support another carrier makes about as much sense as sticking your finger into a pencil sharpener.
are you kidding right? have you ever looked at a carrier? i dont know somewhere between no weapons bonus to capital reps and triage makes me think just a bit about remote tepair... carrier and motherships ARE support vessels made for remote repair mainly and some fighter support.
you should have a loot at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXkTjr5B_Xk =)
and logistic cruiser are hard to kill you need a lot of alpha to break a good rr fleet.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2010.07.15 05:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: DrysonBennington Using the carrier as a repper ship to support another carrier makes about as much sense as sticking your finger into a pencil sharpener.
If you have no clue about neither carriers nor logistic ships, you really shouldn't post here.
Learn how the ships work before spamming useless posts with no basis on reality.
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Mavrk
Minmatar TOP GUHN
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Posted - 2010.07.15 06:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: DrysonBennington ...Carriers are not designed to be remote repairing platforms. Carriers are meant to bring the pain to the battlefield....
Confirming that you have absolutley no idea how carriers work
Originally by: DrysonBennington You should up your mind to new ideas instead of being Caldari all of the time...you might live longer.
We don't disagree with you because we're all noobs.
We disagree with you because you are stupid. --- I'm not trying to be a turd on purpose. I'm just telling you how you are wrong.
Ok, yeah, its on purpose. |
Laina Delapore
Caldari Red Sun Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.15 11:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Laina Delapore ...
Augoror, cap is life! Dying with full cap makes you immortal afterwards as a zombie! Scythe, at least your guns can track a gnat while you get blown to bits!
Only Caldari and Gallente have T1 logistics, Amarr and Minmatar have jokes. Not even worth mentioning together with Osprey and Exequror.
Also: What does Blacks have to do with logistics? Unless you mean moving crap around which is not really the topic
Them being useless doesn't make them cease existing
The OP's statement was that Caldari have a Logistics Cruiser (implying no one else does). I was being pedantic. Besides, supply cap unto your Osprey/Exeq with your Augoror.
Black Ops? Well...the OP stated we "need a T2 battleship for PVP." Again, implying that they think only Marauders exist. Black Ops are the T2 PVP battleships. Thus, we already have this thing that is being requested.
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Jita Bloodtear
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Posted - 2010.07.15 14:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: DrysonBennington Nope carriers are combat vessels meant to deliver high volumes of drones, missiles and provide ECM to the ships around it.
This is true. I outfit all my carriers as missile boats. You should see the type of firepower I present. Using carriers as reppers is a waste of time --------------------------- Full Explanation of the Industry Index System |
Father Grigori
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.15 15:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jita Bloodtear
Originally by: DrysonBennington Nope carriers are combat vessels meant to deliver high volumes of drones, missiles and provide ECM to the ships around it.
This is true. I outfit all my carriers as missile boats. You should see the type of firepower I present. Using carriers as reppers is a waste of time
Confirming dryson has less than no clue how carriers work. Carriers dont have weapon slots FFS.
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