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Kaaii	Posted - 2005.06.20 11:15:00 - [121] Greetings all, Well, I know i said Tradeing 102 was comeing "soon", tm but unfortuately I got a pretty good job a while back which has been taking all my time, . I have a draft about 80% done, and am trying to incorporate many of the wonderful comments/suggestions posted but its taking longer then I had hoped. Please be patient, and keep those suggestions comeing. Also, would like to thank all the Eve-mailers I heard from in game. Your kind words are appreciated Kaaii Director of Research IDEV "..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."
Norvalle	Posted - 2005.06.22 06:56:00 - [122] Keep up the good work. Very useful guide.
Jacques Archambault	Posted - 2005.06.22 16:22:00 - [123] Since there have been a lot of referrals to this thread, particularly for new players in EVE, Zhuge has given me permission to give this a stickeh. Enjoy! {The Forum Rules} \| {Email Us!}
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2005.06.23 05:46:00 - [124] Originally by: Jacques Archambault Since there have been a lot of referrals to this thread, particularly for new players in EVE, Zhuge has given me permission to give this a stickeh. About time already! Now, for... hum... motivation, threaten Kaii to unsticky it if we dont get 102 before the next patch! - Two tales: Silver Burning
Kaaii	Posted - 2005.06.23 20:53:00 - [125] YaY! Ok im duley inspired It will be ready "soon".... "..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."
WolfManz611	Posted - 2005.07.12 19:32:00 - [126] Some good comments in this thread about the market. What i want to know is can you become a billionair from the market? I hate mining but with mining i can in 1 day make about 20 to 30 mil and i can do that on a daily basis. I have looked into the market in eve and i don't see a way to make big money as in 30 mil a day from whats on the market. To me the market seems flawed and whats worse is it seems to take a entire day just to go around and check prices and find out there is nothing good out there to trade. I have seen alot of things on the market you can trade and in 12 jumps you can make 2 mill or something like that but them 12 jumps take way to long in a industrial ship. Ontop of the 12 jumps you got to go and pic up whatever it is your selling and that is usally another 12 jumps. For example i was seling one product a few days ago and i made 6 mill over 6 hours. I could have made tripple that ming for 6 hours.. Ultimately i would like to know if the market can equall mining or not becasue if it can't i might as well go back to mining wich i hate lol.
Vilserx	Posted - 2005.07.12 21:35:00 - [127] Originally by: WolfManz611 Some good comments in this thread about the market. What i want to know is can you become a billionair from the market? I hate mining but with mining i can in 1 day make about 20 to 30 mil and i can do that on a daily basis. I have looked into the market in eve and i don't see a way to make big money as in 30 mil a day from whats on the market. To me the market seems flawed and whats worse is it seems to take a entire day just to go around and check prices and find out there is nothing good out there to trade. I have seen alot of things on the market you can trade and in 12 jumps you can make 2 mill or something like that but them 12 jumps take way to long in a industrial ship. Ontop of the 12 jumps you got to go and pic up whatever it is your selling and that is usally another 12 jumps. For example i was seling one product a few days ago and i made 6 mill over 6 hours. I could have made tripple that ming for 6 hours.. Ultimately i would like to know if the market can equall mining or not becasue if it can't i might as well go back to mining wich i hate lol. I've found a route that makes approx. 5m for an approx. 10 jump route (half there, half back). Player-market trading is very profitable, but more risky than NPC. NPC trading can be, potentially, very profitable if you find the right routes, and there's a lot less risk involved. A good starting point is the Item Database (http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/) so you can see which NPC corps buy and sell certain goods. --------------------------- VSX EVE Design
WolfManz611	Posted - 2005.07.12 22:50:00 - [128] Originally by: Vilserx Originally by: WolfManz611 Some good comments in this thread about the market. What i want to know is can you become a billionair from the market? I hate mining but with mining i can in 1 day make about 20 to 30 mil and i can do that on a daily basis. I have looked into the market in eve and i don't see a way to make big money as in 30 mil a day from whats on the market. To me the market seems flawed and whats worse is it seems to take a entire day just to go around and check prices and find out there is nothing good out there to trade. I have seen alot of things on the market you can trade and in 12 jumps you can make 2 mill or something like that but them 12 jumps take way to long in a industrial ship. Ontop of the 12 jumps you got to go and pic up whatever it is your selling and that is usally another 12 jumps. For example i was seling one product a few days ago and i made 6 mill over 6 hours. I could have made tripple that ming for 6 hours.. Ultimately i would like to know if the market can equall mining or not becasue if it can't i might as well go back to mining wich i hate lol. I've found a route that makes approx. 5m for an approx. 10 jump route (half there, half back). Player-market trading is very profitable, but more risky than NPC. NPC trading can be, potentially, very profitable if you find the right routes, and there's a lot less risk involved. A good starting point is the Item Database (http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/) so you can see which NPC corps buy and sell certain goods. How does this datebase help me out? In game you can see what products are for buy / sell..
Vilserx	Posted - 2005.07.13 12:16:00 - [129] Originally by: WolfManz611 Originally by: Vilserx Originally by: WolfManz611 Some good comments in this thread about the market. What i want to know is can you become a billionair from the market? I hate mining but with mining i can in 1 day make about 20 to 30 mil and i can do that on a daily basis. I have looked into the market in eve and i don't see a way to make big money as in 30 mil a day from whats on the market. To me the market seems flawed and whats worse is it seems to take a entire day just to go around and check prices and find out there is nothing good out there to trade. I have seen alot of things on the market you can trade and in 12 jumps you can make 2 mill or something like that but them 12 jumps take way to long in a industrial ship. Ontop of the 12 jumps you got to go and pic up whatever it is your selling and that is usally another 12 jumps. For example i was seling one product a few days ago and i made 6 mill over 6 hours. I could have made tripple that ming for 6 hours.. Ultimately i would like to know if the market can equall mining or not becasue if it can't i might as well go back to mining wich i hate lol. I've found a route that makes approx. 5m for an approx. 10 jump route (half there, half back). Player-market trading is very profitable, but more risky than NPC. NPC trading can be, potentially, very profitable if you find the right routes, and there's a lot less risk involved. A good starting point is the Item Database (http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/) so you can see which NPC corps buy and sell certain goods. How does this datebase help me out? In game you can see what products are for buy / sell.. You find a commodity that you want to deal in, and look it up on the database. Then you can see which corps buy and sell in that commidity. You can check ingame what prices they are buying/selling for (check their corp info, market activity). --------------------------- VSX EVE Design
WolfManz611	Posted - 2005.07.13 16:05:00 - [130] Ya i know about the ingame stuff.. I still dont see the market being as viable as in terms of money made in a say 8 hour period when compared to mining. Thats what i hate about this game , the best way to make money is to mine and its almost the only way to make REALL money in the game. IT would be nice if CCP would change this. I think the market should be king and not mining as it is in todays reall life econmy. If someone can proove me wrong on this and show me a way to make really good money off the market i'm all ears/eyes lol. I don't need to know what you do exactly but some driection on how to make big money would be nice. Lastnight i was playing around with the market and when i started to look for buy/sell orders within say a 5 jump range of each other i noticed the profits dropped right off over a 12 jump buy/sell.. I have got a few hundred million to invest in the market but odly enough i haven't found any trade goods that are high end and being sold and bought. Sometime you can find trade goods worth a few million only to find out there are no buyers for the stuff..
Sophie Mae	Posted - 2005.07.13 16:41:00 - [131] Originally by: Vilserx Player-market trading is very profitable, but more risky than NPC. Completely agree, been in the game 2 months and already a billionare and have never mined, npc traded, mission farmed or complex farmed. The risks can be mitigated too, and tend to be a little over emphasised. The key differnece between npc trading and player market trading successfully is that to do player market trading well you need to get beyond the market screen and start developing real human relationships. It also requires you to me a good negotiator and analyzer of client needs and the value you can bring. NPC trading can be done in a solo play still as well as market screen player trading, but for much less profit than player direct trading that requires extensive personal interation and relationship building. For me player trading is a much more valuable and enjoyable option. The extra isk you can make from doing it is just the gravey.
Sophie Mae	Posted - 2005.07.13 16:45:00 - [132] Edited by: Sophie Mae on 13/07/2005 16:45:30 Originally by: WolfManz611 I have got a few hundred million to invest in the market but odly enough i haven't found any trade goods that are high end and being sold and bought. Sometime you can find trade goods worth a few million only to find out there are no buyers for the stuff.. That is because the most profitable trading occurs off market. I use the market mainly to buy needed product for customers and sometimes dump excess inventory, but only when I can't fill orders or liquidate inventory more profitably to/from direct clinets/suppliers.
Domicron	Posted - 2005.07.14 19:22:00 - [133] Very good post, hard to follow in some places (grammar issues) but other than that...Awesome! ~Cho
Dimitri Chandler	Posted - 2005.07.24 05:23:00 - [134] nice tips I had only dabbled previously in trading, but thought I would give it a go after reading this. Made more money in one day using 2 haulers on a couple of sweet runs than I would have doing lvl4 agent missions before the patch. 280 isk per 1m3 profit, approx 11 jumps. Just a question - how long does it take for the npc buy orders to go back up once you have milked them dry? "Your bullets cannot harm me, my wings are like a shieeeeeeeeeld of steeeeel!!!"
Pyhrus	Posted - 2005.07.27 00:32:00 - [135] oo nice topic just a side note, there's a market activity tab on each npc corp information page in game, just find the corp in ppl and places and its the fith tab along
Razner Cerizo	Posted - 2005.07.28 06:47:00 - [136] oh man awesome... this thread made me realize the value of the Marketing skill. I always thought it was just a skill for lazy people, but it really enables you to set "trade remote detonation bombs" for lack of a better word. Put your items in place, wait for market to flourish, BOOM. Instant profit selling a small amount of the items youve placed there. Then you wait for prices to go up and BOOM AGAIN! All while trading other things actively! WHEEEE! \o/
N Falcon	Posted - 2005.08.09 12:42:00 - [137] ty so much for the information Kaaii, after playing eve for over a year and half now and never once tried trading I found this article very interesting and also very informative. I had heard about trading but had no idea what they was talking about, having spent most of my game time as mission runner or occasionally mining when needed minerals for new ship or other supplies. I will have to check this out and see if I can finish off my 2nd billion in profit from game through this route. PS would have loved to see Trading 102 after this great read as one can never have too much information before starting new career field.
Dr Grimm	Posted - 2005.08.20 18:32:00 - [138] Originally by: TotensBurntCorpse What actually happened was this... Lai Dai sells for say 4200 isk per unit but sells in bulk lots of 153 pcs (think that was the number). After each PURCHASE at that particular base the price would jump +4isk per 153 pc lot bought. So lot #2 of 153 pcs now costs 4204 at that base, lot #3 of 153 pcs costs 4208 and so on... They way I work around the buying in lots (assuming the ceiling price, once reached is within your profit range)is to go to the advanced buy tab as if you were going to place a long order, but change it to "immediate", then enter the total number of units that I want to purchase, and it usually fills my whole buy at once for the same price.
xNashx	Posted - 2005.08.31 23:23:00 - [139] hey! Thanks for writing this guide. It is very informative and i like the "never fly empty" idea. It's so true. There is one thing u forgot to include though which is trading as a side job and spur of the moment buying etc. but those are just frills really. Great guide! xNashx
Sria	Posted - 2005.09.20 02:15:00 - [140] I have a question regarding the article: Why is a 1 hour trip for 6 mil is less profitable than a 45 minute trip for 2 mil?
TotensBurntCorpse	Posted - 2005.09.20 17:54:00 - [141] Edited by: TotensBurntCorpse on 20/09/2005 17:56:20 the 6mil.hr is more profitable than 1.5mil.hr. UPDATE for cold war... 1) Being a north american SUCKS. By the time I get home I find that most markets for freighter level mass bulk trades are pretty much soaked by the time I logg on. On the weekend server restart coencides with 8 am here so I can jump into the wallstreet fray early. 2) If you can afford one get a freighter, but be aware that they are dead slow, get hung up at gates and bases pretty much all the time, are suicide to fly alone in <0.5 sec, and require a significant bank roll to use properly. 3) Instas are still a must, but with the cold war as everyone is aware the hiways have been changed. It is still a good idea to atleast identify the trading hubs and make insta routes along the new hiways. 4) With ship repackaging it is also a good idea to carry a shuttle on board that u can use to scout side routes for pricing (where the side route leads to another region rather than fly the hauler). 5) Run up those trade skills, taxes is money out of your profits. Posting local buy orders can finnally take advantage of those pesky mission runners. They dont want to run 5 jumps to sell 10 wheat but with what 300+ ppl in systems like oursalaert that can quickly add up to thousands of bushels per day making for a tidy profit by weeks end. 6) Partial buys. I have begun to do this with my freighter. As I fly thru systems I keep an eye out for system only sales of materials that may be low price buys. If I see any real deals I will purchase for later pick up for my return trip, to maximize my used cargo space. 7) Contract hauls. More and more players are bulk purchasing and setting up agreements for hauling deliveries. If possible try to source out companies who do mining/refining but would be willing to bulk sell either ore or minerals on consignment. Many times do I see base 1 in system ordering trit and base 2 selling trit, but noone is moving it. Even more so between systems. Collecting smaller orders and bulk hauling to a buy area then posting at that base your sell order can result in the buyer cancelling their buy order and buying your posting instead. 8) Ship sales now possible due to repackaging. To date I have bought moved resold melted literally hundreds of ships. Always be on the look out for the occasional underpriced ship. A big one I made millions off of within hours of the cold war going live was believe it or not BANTAMS. In raw refineable minerals a Bantam is worth about 27K. I bought alot in the following weeks after cold war, pretty much as dirt cheap as I could. I then melted them and resold the minerals (or remanufactured them into ships). 9) Trade routes. I cannot stress this enough, Cold War has changed the face of the trading done in empire. I would plead that all novice traders scout the hiways, identify depots that u can drop materials for future runs, learn what systems are the closest to region X off the hiway in region Y. Ex right now I know that within several jumps of a forge system you can check the forge, lonetrek, citadel, domain and sing laison. With a shuttle I can do price checks in 5 regions in about 15 mins or so. 10) Shared Loads. If you find a high priced commodity it may be in your best interest to share your profits. I have and still do offer profit sharing to investors. If my corp mates or other friends front me money I include their funds in my ability to go after high value loads and then share the profits. Ex why trade cargo worth 50 isk/m3 when with profit sharing I can go for cargo worth 350isk/m3. If you give less than equal share payouts you make more isks per m3 than if you did your own cargo funding. AND your friends get some extra isks for cash that is rotting in their account. I was about to say bank account, but eve doesnt have one. Cargo sharing is one way to earn interest on unused isks. More to come later as I think of it.... TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty. Dislikes Not much.
Blue42	Posted - 2005.09.20 20:03:00 - [142] In the details window in the Market view (which I use to look for deals around the region) sometimes items are highlighted green. Anybody figure out what that means? I couldn't find it in the FAQ, the "Find Answers" link, or by chatting on EVE. Thanks, EP "Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe and Lao-Tzu, Einstein, Morobuto, Buddy Holly, Aristophanes ... and all of this ... all of this was for nothing unless we go to the stars." -- Sinclair, Infection <quotes>
HighlanderUK	Posted - 2005.09.22 13:28:00 - [143] Originally by: Blue42 In the details window in the Market view (which I use to look for deals around the region) sometimes items are highlighted green. Anybody figure out what that means? I couldn't find it in the FAQ, the "Find Answers" link, or by chatting on EVE. Thanks, EP I believe its to do with the active buy order affecting the station your in, more likely if its a region wide order, the green highlight shows your options in that particular station, in which several players may have placed bids. ****************** The Flying Scotsman ******************
Ki Shodan	Posted - 2005.09.22 13:51:00 - [144] Originally by: Blue42 In the details window in the Market view (which I use to look for deals around the region) sometimes items are highlighted green. Anybody figure out what that means? I couldn't find it in the FAQ, the "Find Answers" link, or by chatting on EVE. The green highlighting shows, that there is demand for a commodity in the same system. This does not mean the same Station you are in. -- my current auctions
Caia	Posted - 2005.09.26 08:09:00 - [145] Wanted to add a few things.... Supply and demand. Know it, love. If the supply of something is large but you can afford it all, but it. Then sell it for double the price. Check the handy graphs to see if item X is a lot lower than it was a month ago. If it is, chances are its over supplied. Monopolies are your friend (as long as you hold the monopoly). If you control the market, you set the price. Granted, no item is a must have, but you'll be able to set a price far above the market value. Free markets abhor monopolies. You have a monopoly? Great! Use it while you can, because it ain't gonna last. Somebody is going to find your niche market and get in while the getting is good.
MWEI	Posted - 2005.10.02 22:58:00 - [146] its not true a 40min run with 10mil profit is better than 2 hour run of 30mil, simply because the market dosnt keep the price the same for you all three times you do that 40min run. that 2 hour run garentee you make 10mil / 40min while the 40min run might only make you 10mil in the first hour thats it.
Calieron	Posted - 2005.10.08 17:11:00 - [147] hm... where's the next part kaaii promised ? still to busy finishing it ? i really like to say thanks for the informative and indepth thread regarding this topic. keep it up !
Kaaii	Posted - 2005.10.09 00:22:00 - [148] Originally by: Calieron hm... where's the next part kaaii promised ? still to busy finishing it ? i really like to say thanks for the informative and indepth thread regarding this topic. keep it up ! Thanks, Yes more is coming.... details to follow... "..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.." http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php
Rez Lo	Posted - 2005.10.14 23:11:00 - [149] This post helped me out in a huge way a few months back when I first jumped into an Iteron. Since then I have referred many to this thread who were considering a simillar path. Thank you Kaaii for posting it. On a related tangent I was a little disappointed that your E-on article was basically just a rewrite of this original thread. I hope in the next edition you will take it a little further and grace us with some new information on trading. I find your insight into this aspect of Eve very valuable and would benefit from your perspective on the post-coldwar trading career.I hope the next article will be more then a simple rehashing of what you have already written and I look forward to reading it when it becomes available.We are all ready for trading 102, but thanks again for trading 101. Regards, Rez Lo
Maelzel Zante	Posted - 2005.10.19 17:00:00 - [150] Great guide. Keep up the good work. It's resources like this guide that make the game better for new and seasoned pilots. Remember Kyonoke Pit

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