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Neu Bastian
Minmatar
Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2010.07.14 13:55:00 -
[1]
I've just read a CSM meeting Minutes that explicitly said that CCP aren't signing any significant resources to correcting the many issues for Faction Warfare untill Dust and Incarna(walking in stations) are introduced. That's 18+ Months.
The Players and the CSM have brought FW issues time and time again sinces it birth, and it all has been largely ignored. This is unacceptable.
Why would anyone want yet another buggy feature if you can't even fix what is on the game now?
I understand dust opens you up to a new client base, and thus is more money, but Ignoring FW totality is unacceptable.
FIX IT NOW.
 Quote:
Neu Bastian
Valklear Guard - CEO
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Neu Bastian
Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:00:00 -
[2]
Quote:
Neu Bastian
Valklear Guard - CEO
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:19:00 -
[3]
If there was an easy fix I would be all for it, but the entire premise is flawed as well as the execution.
We participants can't even agree on what is needed to make it all it can be and I am sure that CCP is in the same boat (although they don't have to live the horror  )
Eighteen months is nothing, COSMOS is just as buggy and pointless today as it was 4 years ago .. some farming potential was eliminated but that is all it ever received.
FW is in low-sec and as such merging a possible solution into what can be cooked up for the area as a whole will not only increase invested people but could make for a genuinely unique environment.
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Neu Bastian
Minmatar
Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2010.07.14 14:27:00 -
[4]
Yet CSM has brought up specific issues with FW that have never been looked into.
For example, I had to sit out this year's tournament because to be on it it meant I not only needed a holder alliance, but to leave FW for 2 months just to be abble to fly in the tourney. the issue of Alliances and FW has been brought raised countless times, and ignored just as many times.
Quote:
Neu Bastian
Valklear Guard - CEO
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Angry Fist
Tribal Core
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Posted - 2010.07.14 15:13:00 -
[5]
I get that fixing FW is no easy matter, but come on CCP, throw us a few bones at least.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.07.14 17:15:00 -
[6]
I'd prefer they work on low sec as a whole personally. By necessity any fix to low sec also has a benefit to FW.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Ori Blake
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Posted - 2010.07.14 17:52:00 -
[7]
Fixing FW wont attract new players. I think people miss the point of Incarna, it's to get a lot of new players into the game, and ones that wouldn't try EVE otherwise. CCP has to attract new business it seems.
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Syekuda
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.07.14 21:26:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Syekuda on 14/07/2010 21:30:51
Edited by: Syekuda on 14/07/2010 21:30:29
Originally by: Jin Nib
I'd prefer they work on low sec as a whole personally. By necessity any fix to low sec also has a benefit to FW.
Please explain because when I look at Faction Warfare I do not see what can they fix which will benefit it as well ?
This may seem very odd or weird but I don't even see low sec and fw as the same thing. FW involves pvp'ers fighting together in low sec which is consensual per say. For low sec pvp, its pirates and most of the time pirates attack people that don't even want to fight. They try to run away. Again unless some information is missing I don't see any benefits if they work on low sec at all.
I've seen the idea's from the csm and community in the minute meeting and none of the ideas should benefit faction warfare.
Originally by: "Low sec discussion"
...Ideas for making low sec more cohesive criminal environment were then brainstormed, with a focus on criminal industry and perhaps a criminal index for each low sec system that is affected by PvP activity in that system and would subsequently have some kind of impact on profit-making activities. Criminal industry and other ideas discussed included booster production changes; combining boosters in a ôdesigner drugö way to get special effects; the possibility of an ôaddictionö mechanic which would encourage more booster use to delay side effects; the ability to control space; certain privileges for those with outlaw sec status; restrictions to low sec of production, sale, or use of certain items; signal dampeners that would dynamically reduce exploration sitesÆ (and ships in it) scannability the further into site completion players got (for example, the more you mine a grav site, the hard it and your ships would be to be scanned out) or simply affect scan probes making sites and ships harder to scan down; bounty and pirate professions; and criminal industry implants and boosters aimed for low sec.
Also mentioned during the freewheeling brainstorming and discussion:
Mechanisms for reducing risk and reducing the potential for being interrupted when doing exploration sites would help increase profitability (time= money; cloaking/warping out means sites take longer and/or despawn, affecting profitability).
This is only a very small portion and its only considered brainstorm ideas so don't take this as finalized version of the future version of low sec but this is what they talked about at the meeting. So besides mobile homes, signal dampers or hidden secret stargates which takes you from low sec to low sec without going to high sec I don't know what would benefit us.
Please explain what would benefit FW ?
=========
Originally by: "Ori Blake"
Fixing FW wont attract new players. I think people miss the point of Incarna, it's to get a lot of new players into the game, and ones that wouldn't try EVE otherwise. CCP has to attract new business it seems.
Wrong, fixing FW will keep players playing it and will attract new players already playing Eve to go in fw so they can pvp.
For Incarna, the whole purpose is to make eve-online more socialising...nothing else. Theres seem to be a big boom in social tools and sites like twitter, facebook and all those useless ugly site. Why ? because people like to chat together and it's a big business oportunity. I mean they live in their mom's basement and they aren't respectful to each other. So they go online and socialize instead...ok nvm, I got off the track here lol.
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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
ISAAC ASIMOV |
Amy Garzan
The Warp Rats
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.07.14 22:03:00 -
[9]
Incarna has taken how long??
Who cares about walking in stations. Ill go play an FPS or something if I want to do that.
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101010 The Answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything |
5c0u7y
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2010.07.15 09:26:00 -
[10]
Edited by: 5c0u7y on 15/07/2010 09:29:03
Faction warfare seriously needs an overhaul soon.
Boost the roleplay backgound, fix the endless (senseless) capture-the-flag standing factory and add some effects on gameplay in occupied systems, e.g. no docking rights for opposing militia. a bit similar to 0.0 game mechanics, it's working pretty well there.
(edit: typo)
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Talon Commander 5c0u7y |
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Bucky O'Hair
Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2010.07.15 10:21:00 -
[11]
18 months, correction, at least 18 months, before CCP will look into Faction Warfare fixes/updates. That's just wrong. I know only a small percentage of people do FW, but part of that is because it is still buggy.
PLEASE CCP FIX FACTION WARFARE!
Bucky O'Hair
"If it flys it dies!"
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Morka'Dor
Tribal Core
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Posted - 2010.07.15 10:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Eighteen months is nothing, COSMOS is just as buggy and pointless today as it was 4 years ago .. some farming potential was eliminated but that is all it ever received.
I don't think its reasonable to take a `minimum time spent broken' into consideration when looking for what to fix first. Factional Warfare is as close to EVEs core business as it gets, since its about player spaceships blowing each other up. Therefore it should get more attention than COSMOS, or indeed Incarna (which is neither about spaceships, nor even about PvP!).
Do want fixes for FW sooner than 18 months from now. |
Laina Delapore
Red Sun Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.15 11:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Morka'Dor
EVEs core business [is] about...spaceships blowing each other up. Therefore it should get more attention than...Incarna (which is neither about spaceships, nor even about PvP!).
Do want fixes for [pretty much anything and everything that isn't Incarna or Dust] sooner than 18 months from now.
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ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.07.15 12:20:00 -
[14]
vote against.
makes no sense to shift their scurm teams and planning around. too much time would be wasted by overhead |
Dzajic
Level Up
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Posted - 2010.07.15 12:38:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Dzajic on 15/07/2010 12:39:27
Fully supported. Balancing/Fixing FW and Lowsec is doable and easier to achieve than "fixing lag". EVE at minimum needs those two fixed out of sea of issues that should be higher priority than WIS.
I'd like to remind everyone that "we cant start on that in 18 months" means that no fixes or balance will come at 18 months but much much later. If they start working on stuff in 18 months we likely wont see anything fixed in 2 or 2 and a half years. |
Syekuda
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.07.15 14:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
vote against.
makes no sense to shift their scurm teams and planning around. too much time would be wasted by overhead
Why doesn't it ? new players that just started this game are thrown in Faction warfare almost from the start. This has some importance only because of that. They should work on FW. Lots of bugs, imbalance issues and lots more in FW needs work. It won't take months to fix these issues if a team work on this believe me. Theres lots of veterans in FW from all the races know what's going on and how to fix those imbalance. All CCP needs to do ( if they don't have the info...which I don't think that's the case) is ask them what's going on.
Making the transition to fw less steap that should help. I keep hearing "I just finished the tutorial , what do I do now ?" in the militia chat channel. For me that means CCP has to work on FW.
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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
ISAAC ASIMOV |
ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.07.15 14:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Syekuda
Why doesn't it ?
it makes no sense from the economical / project management point of view. switching up development is not as easy as you all like to believe. it would result in wasted time and money basicly.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.07.15 15:23:00 -
[18]
I don't give a **** about FW so I rather have them work on Incarna.
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.07.15 15:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
If there was an easy fix I would be all for it, but the entire premise is flawed as well as the execution.
We participants can't even agree on what is needed to make it all it can be and I am sure that CCP is in the same boat (although they don't have to live the horror )
Eighteen months is nothing...
I do think there would be a relatively easy fix for fw. I have posted about it here and the url is in my sig. I know you disagree (the details can be read in the thread in my sig) which brings us to your second point. It does seem the participants canÆt agree on what changes should happen.
The minor bug fixes proposed (and backlogged) by csm will not ôfix fw.ö I think ôfixing fwö means participants actually engage in, and enjoy, the fight for occupancy. That is what my proposal would do and without too much work. But I fear so many have long since given up on occupancy in its current lacking form that few are interested in the topic.
CCP is saying incarna and dust will be here in 18 months? I doubt it. But if it is here in that time they will have bugs with incarna that will need to be fixed before fw will be addressed. Incarna is just really like designing a whole new game û only harder as it needs to tie in with eve. Fixing the bugs will likely take an additional 6 months.
The changes to fw that I and others request are not that big of a deal. We shouldnÆt have to wait 2 years.
Make the minor changes I and others have requested now and then if they still think they need to do some big overhaul after incarna is out they can. But they wonÆt need to! If they made the changes I proposed FW would, by far, be the best pvp in eve. Those seemingly minor changes would revolutionize eve.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Galdornae
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.15 21:11:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Galdornae on 15/07/2010 21:15:33
Edited by: Galdornae on 15/07/2010 21:11:35
Originally by: James Tritanius
I don't give a **** about FW so I rather have them work on Incarna.
I don't give a **** about Incarna so I rather have them work on FW. I don't play this game for walking a guy around like an FPS, I play this game for srs bsns internet spaceships.
Seriously though, I think they should let alliances join, with a no-sov-holding stipulation.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1352285&page=2 <- Support this as well folks.
Edit: As has been mentioned before, I would really like do alliance tourney without my corp having to leave FW.
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2010.07.15 21:33:00 -
[21]
/me go and broke a lance against another windmill. 
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No Mauk'Ob
Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2010.07.16 01:25:00 -
[22]
fix it or kill it...
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Captain No Mauk'Ob
Murientor Tribe Navy 1st MCW
MURIE is Recruiting! |
Sneaky Noob
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.07.16 01:55:00 -
[23]
supported.
doubt CCP will ever do anything though...
The Sneakiest N00b in all of EVE
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Aodha Khan
Minmatar
Matari Stormriders
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Posted - 2010.07.16 08:10:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 16/07/2010 08:10:25
CCP needs to be continuing development on the games functions they already have. Not dumping half baked ideas into Eve and then leaving to do some other half baked features.
Working on making FW should be a continual process so this thread gets my support.
Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken. |
Laina Delapore
Caldari
Red Sun Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.16 08:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: James Tritanius
I don't give a **** about FW so I rather have them work on Incarna.
I don't give two tugs of a dead dog's ***** about FW either, but I care more about spaceships than I do about avatars in stations, so I'd support anything that shifts emphasis away from stupid shinies and back onto in-game issues and half-finished content. Especially things that have been raised again and again and again and have been ignored in favour of the vapourware that is WIS.
Shifting FW to 18 months from now smacks of "Yeah, we don't know how to fix this, either. It's too difficult. Hey, look - the SIMs in Space, Woo! Playerbase distracted, objective acheived."
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Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.07.16 11:31:00 -
[26]
----
Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Gordin Brott
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Posted - 2010.07.16 20:34:00 -
[27]
Why do we actually need Second Life in space?
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Tri Vetra
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.16 22:14:00 -
[28]
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Neu Bastian
Minmatar
Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2010.07.17 00:56:00 -
[29]
people, some of you have not clicked the little support box on your repplies, you need to do this for your support to actually count!
Quote:
Neu Bastian
Valklear Guard - CEO
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Slalkfa
Helix Biotechnologies
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Posted - 2010.07.17 03:37:00 -
[30]
FW is deserted because there is nothing to win compared to simple mission-running. Gains are an important part of EvE - gains and risks. And for now, I'm sorry, but FW is just a waste of time and ISKs.
What does FW need?
-Rewards for individual players. Good ones, to actually justify putting Tech II frigates on the line.
-Rewards for the militia and/or the faction, to encourage players to play together for a common goal.
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Mynx La'Rue
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2010.07.17 13:37:00 -
[31]
Supported .... i cant believe that FW, the entry forppl who wanna do pvp, is so continously neglected. That is MORE then frustrating, and that for a LONG time now.
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Asthariye
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Posted - 2010.07.17 13:38:00 -
[32]
If nothing else at least fix the bugs. Improvement of the mechanic as a whole would be better, but I'll settle for fixing what's broken... |
Vechernyi
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.17 13:41:00 -
[33]
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Arkady Sadik
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.07.17 13:54:00 -
[34]
Yes please.
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duct tayp
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Posted - 2010.07.17 13:59:00 -
[35]
The fix I think we can all agree needs to be made is to make system occupancy do SOMETHING. As of right now, occupying a system does nothing more than reduce the CPU and Powergrid useage of your robe and wizard hat, which is ridiculous. I think not allowing enemy faction ships to dock in systems occupied would be a welcome change, or at leats charging a docking fee. Another possible solution would be to increase the rewards from completing a mind numbing plex, or system takeover.
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Drezdyn
Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2010.07.17 14:04:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Drezdyn on 17/07/2010 14:04:25
CCP - it is clear from the CSM minutes that not only will you not devote developer time to fixing FW issues, but there is not a clear team or individual stakeholder for FW issues.
Another thing that is clear from this thread ( and many others ) is that there needs to be more concensus around _what_ and _how_ to fix before it can be fixed.
Assigning development talent to work on the issues doesn't have to happen right now, but we _need_ CCP folks to be looking at the issue, making plans, designing fixes _now_! Assign devs once they have the time, but to let these issues go unaddressed because you are busy developing products for new revenue is a slap in the face to your existing clients (read your operating income).
EDIT: Edited to support the OP.
Drezdyn
2nd Lieutenant - 1st Murientor Combat Wing
Valklear General - Tribal Liberation Force |
ibanez0r
Minmatar
5th Australian Tactical Wing
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Posted - 2010.07.17 14:13:00 -
[37]
isnt it the pc players subscriptions that paid for all of this? they should be rewarded, not stupid console noobs :(
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Garr Anders
Thukk U
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Posted - 2010.07.17 14:20:00 -
[38]
supported!
+1
FW is still (even with broken mechanics) the best entry into PvP for new players.
So if you dont want to loose all those potential subscribers within the 14 day free trial, fix it!
-----
Garr Anders
"The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet.
- referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
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Layla Aamiriya
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Posted - 2010.07.17 16:35:00 -
[39]
CCP I question your integrity. You take my money but you don't fix the bugs in the current version of EVE. I support the corrections for Faction Warfare. Fit it Now.
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Captain Vaguy
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2010.07.17 16:56:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Captain Vaguy on 17/07/2010 16:57:08
CCP we are paying customers. Treat us equally before other games take our interest
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Kaito Kenshin
Twilight Labs
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Posted - 2010.07.17 18:26:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Kaito Kenshin on 17/07/2010 18:28:20
I decided fairly recently that I'm finished with faction war until it is fixed...or at least improved. After a year of trying to make the best of tired, ineffective game mechanics, I had to move on to find motivation to keep my account active. So in my opinion, yes--FW needs some fixin' in a very bad way.
I would like to point out something about FW that ought make it worth fixing to CCP: the fact that a great many FW players support their play by buying PLEXes. FW is an isk-sink like no other. People do it because they like to fight, not grind wealth...so lots of militia folk are frequently shelling out the extra thirty bucks to replace their losses. That is something that big alliance pilots and highsec corps don't have to do.
I know that since I've left the militia, the likelihood that I'll be paying dollars for any more plexes has become pretty much nonexistant. I simply don't have to pump that much money in to the game anymore.
My point is this: I would be incredibly surprised if the profit CCP is making off of pilots per capita involved in FW isn't significantly greater than that which they are making off of those who are not. (Yay woot convoluted sentence)
More simply, my point is this:
Crappy FW = less PLEXes bought with RL cash.
Let's fill the stars with love! |
Dirk Smacker
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Posted - 2010.07.17 18:27:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ori Blake
Fixing FW wont attract new players.
I don't know. I'm fairly new and I really want to give FW a try in the near future. The problems I hear people talking about are the metagame being a bit borked and the FW community dieing off. Coming from WAR, I know that capturing objectives can foster cooperation. However, the places to be for the best PvP in EVE don't seem to be in FW.
If it was better, CCP could retain a lot more players that give the game a try.
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Rikki Sals
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.17 21:17:00 -
[43]
The problem isn't that they haven't fixed Faction Warfare yet, it's that they haven't removed it yet.
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Shalassason
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Posted - 2010.07.17 22:30:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Shalassason on 17/07/2010 22:30:13
Blowing up internet spaceships is serious buisness,
walking on boring stations however is not.
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Kiram
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Posted - 2010.07.17 22:33:00 -
[45]
But I want a hairdresser and a bar you bastards!
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Farelle
Gallente
Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.07.18 00:04:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Rikki Sals
The problem isn't that they haven't fixed Faction Warfare yet, it's that they haven't removed it yet.
why would you want a part of the game used by (if milita numbers are anything to go by) thousands of players, removed?
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.07.18 02:13:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Ralnik on 18/07/2010 02:13:47
Originally by: Ori Blake
Fixing FW wont attract new players. I think people miss the point of Incarna, it's to get a lot of new players into the game, and ones that wouldn't try EVE otherwise. CCP has to attract new business it seems.
Incarna will be introduced with a whole new batch of bugs of it's own. If CCP can't fix the stuff that's broken now due to misplaced priorities. What makes anyone think they will suddenly prioritize these fixes 18 months to 2 years from now after a whole new host of broken features are added.
I support this topic not just for FW but low sec in general and to show CCP that they need to focus on the game we have today, not 2 years from now.
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Usagi Hino
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Posted - 2010.07.18 09:59:00 -
[48]
Not supported. I don't engage in FW, and would like WIS/incarna. Furthermore, WIS/incarna in needed for DUST which is needed to bring more life in PI.
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Rikki Sals
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.18 19:21:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Farelle
Originally by: Rikki Sals
The problem isn't that they haven't fixed Faction Warfare yet, it's that they haven't removed it yet.
why would you want a part of the game used by (if milita numbers are anything to go by) thousands of players, removed?
I apologize, I did not realize participation in Faction Warfare was so widespread.  If amends to it could be proven to not only retain players currently involved in it, but grow participation from the rest of the playerbase, as well as attract new players to EVE, to a greater extent than Incarna and Dust 514, then yes, it certainly deserves more developer attention. However, I do not believe that this is the case.
I played Warhammer Online for the first year that it was out, and it was built from the ground up to be based on Realm vs Realm (Faction vs Faction?) pvp. It had many great mechanics for people to form ad hoc groups to accomplish both pve and pvp tasks; the progression of the greater pvp war was based on smaller pve objectives, any of which could quickly turn into pvp engagements (sound familiar?). The combat had a nice skirmish feel, and the game got a lot of things right. Warhammer Online is now also widely considered a massive failure. Its subscribership numbers dropped off a cliff.
Why? In small part due to the normal implementation hiccups that almost all MMOs face; bugs, server problems, imbalance issues, etc. But what REALLY killed it was that from the very beginning the concept was flawed.
By dictating the players' opponents by an arbitrary choice at the beginning of playing (one more based on roleplay aesthetics, or so and so's side is or isn't the current underdog, etc.), rather than allowing all conflicts to be born out of individual player choices and interactions, the burden of giving pvp conflict any personal meaning went to the developers. So the developers would try to come up with more and better ways to dynamically reward/punish the victors and defeated with various game items/ranks/limitations/perks. These things soon get old, and people soon realize that such a system devolves into gaming the system itself, instead of each other.
Realms (factions) would occasionally achieve widespread cohesion and accomplish all of the goals dictated by the realm (faction) conflict mechanics, after which rehashing such accomplishment would become trivial faster than the devs could pile more new content or incentives on top of the heap. Each side would soon devolve into chaotic sparring against people they might rather be riding(flying) with (but hey, they're part of such and such faction, so we're SUPPOSED to kill them!) while wishing they could kill some of their very own realm(faction)-mates, or into cliquey semi-organized groups that effectively gamed the system for maximum profit, and then eventually got bored of it and quit.
TL;DR - Faction warfare as a larger concept is a dead end; many proposed improvements to it would make it LESS player driven and more dev driven, and there are way more compelling things for the CSM and devs to be spending their time on. (Revamping low sec, new features that will for a certainty result in playerbase growth, things that add on to the sandboxyness of EVE rather than spoon feeding more of it, etc.)
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Ori Blake
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Posted - 2010.07.18 19:58:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Wrong, fixing FW will keep players playing it and will attract new players already playing Eve to go in fw so they can pvp.
For Incarna, the whole purpose is to make eve-online more socialising...nothing else. Theres seem to be a big boom in social tools and sites like twitter, facebook and all those useless ugly site. Why ? because people like to chat together and it's a big business oportunity. I mean they live in their mom's basement and they aren't respectful to each other. So they go online and socialize instead...ok nvm, I got off the track here lol.
More people would come into the game through Incarna than any FW fix. FW is horrible for new players because it tanks their standings with the opposing factions, and it teaches them the only effective PvP is battleship and up blobs.
Plus Incarna solves a real problem: the game is BORING half the time when you are waiting for skills to train. Currently its just grinding ISK and looking for trouble: this adds more things to do. Fixing FW doesn't: it's just to benefit the small number of people doing it.
Quote:
I don't know. I'm fairly new and I really want to give FW a try in the near future. The problems I hear people talking about are the metagame being a bit borked and the FW community dieing off. Coming from WAR, I know that capturing objectives can foster cooperation. However, the places to be for the best PvP in EVE don't seem to be in FW.
If it was better, CCP could retain a lot more players that give the game a try.
The metagame is as borked as the rest of the game's PvP. Plexing isn't much different than playing timezone games to nail a POS, or using spies, station games, and neutral alts/reppers.
Thing is there is no shortage of PvP opportunities in the game, and the fixes a lot of people mention for FW really wont get new people into it. If it can be fixed at all-metagaming will never be, and that's a large part of what makes FW bad.
Quote:
Incarna will be introduced with a whole new batch of bugs of it's own. If CCP can't fix the stuff that's broken now due to misplaced priorities. What makes anyone think they will suddenly prioritize these fixes 18 months to 2 years from now after a whole new host of broken features are added.
I support this topic not just for FW but low sec in general and to show CCP that they need to focus on the game we have today, not 2 years from now.
You wont have a game in 2 years if they waste time trying to fix unfixable things. They have to focus on what will bring in new people, because in 2010-2011 you are going to start seeing population in EVE decay even further simply because new AAA games are coming out.
Lowsec can't be fixed. Most of the "fixes" are harmful in general and would actually lose players. Like lowsec routes only between empires.
Some things can be fixed and polished, and there is a problem when they don't work on more basic things because of it. But lowsec/fw is impossible to fix imo.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.07.18 20:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ori Blake
Baseless nonsense...
A troll? A clueless person? A player who's bitter that they invested time in a game they don't like?
You decide. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Ori Blake
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Posted - 2010.07.18 20:31:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Ori Blake
Baseless nonsense...
A troll? A clueless person? A player who's bitter that they invested time in a game they don't like?
You decide. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
I did FW on the Amarr side, and there is no way to fix the thing. Most of the problems with FW are metagame ones that wont go away: the militia channel being a refuge for alt spies, and the inability to make FW occupancy matter without it being exploited just like the FW level 4s are (look at Navy Slicer prices freefalling for an example.)
Lowsec too: I've soloed in it most of the time that I've played. Most of the solutions here to lowsec break the game because for pirates to exist, you have to force hisec bears in there to lose their ships. Any other changes already are covered by wormholes better.
My point still stands: fixing both wont draw people to the game. EVE players have too much tunnel vision about the nature of the game being one way, and don't realize the benefits of Incarna bringing people in.
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MythBlood
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Posted - 2010.07.18 22:01:00 -
[53]
fix existing game features now plz.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.07.18 23:01:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Jin Nib on 18/07/2010 23:01:36
Originally by: Ori Blake
I did FW on the Amarr side, and there is no way to fix the thing. Most of the problems with FW are metagame ones that wont go away: the militia channel being a refuge for alt spies, and the inability to make FW occupancy matter without it being exploited just like the FW level 4s are (look at Navy Slicer prices freefalling for an example.)
Lowsec too: I've soloed in it most of the time that I've played. Most of the solutions here to lowsec break the game because for pirates to exist, you have to force hisec bears in there to lose their ships. Any other changes already are covered by wormholes better.
My point still stands: fixing both wont draw people to the game. EVE players have too much tunnel vision about the nature of the game being one way, and don't realize the benefits of Incarna bringing people in.
Yeah I think I trolled myself, that's a weird experience. Anyways I agree, and am quite looking forward to Incarna, it should make the game a more interesting place and may lead to improvements in many places. Far more then any FW fix would manage.
Low-sec and FW as a subsection of low-sec (though some may not agree with me on that) however have a lot of opportunity to grow and improve. There is a lot of potential for fun game stuff that could be made with those two products. They aren't as hopeless as you make them out to be. Obviously not with forcing carebears to low-sec or something like that (and honestly who wants em anyways, let them rot in high-sec if that's their thing) but working with the nature of the area and the people who live there and emphasizing that.
Anyways I'm for letting them finish Incarna so when they actually start to improve the stuff they've already put in game they can actually focus on it properly rather than a bunch of band-aid fixes that bog the game down with nonsense. Also its likely that Incarna could also give them that ability to gather more resources overall assuming an influx of new sub's.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Alica Wildfire
Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2010.07.19 10:20:00 -
[55]
I subscribe to fix FW as soon as possible. But don't waste effort that was put into Incarna for that. Incarna is important and has priority and people are waiting for that much too long now. This gets a bunch of new players, a bunch of new targets, profit and new tacklers for the own fleet. EVE really needs this, even if you are not in RP.
But FW is seriously broken. Fix it please. I subscribe for this but don't do it with a hot needle. I'd appreciate a serious overhaul of that stuff. Take your time, but do it. Please.
= <<< with Cherry on top
--
FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Stoogie
Cadre Assault Force
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Posted - 2010.07.19 11:00:00 -
[56]
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Diosas
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Posted - 2010.07.19 11:23:00 -
[57]
CCP always create a fanfare of this 'big' new features but as always they turn out to be half finished useless additions, that just get left. Bascially CCP think by adding a small item it satisfies the player base and thats all they need to do.
People go on about "but its a free upgrade!" yeah but its a useless upgrade! I would much rather PAY for a very good upgrade than have a useless one..
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Argyle Jones
Minmatar
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.19 15:07:00 -
[58]
I haven't played any FW since just after it came out. Back then it was all new and exciting, but quickly got uninteresting and I left to pursue some 0.0 PVP instead. As such I haven't really followed up on how it works today, but everyone here keep on saying saying 'fix the bugs'. Would someone care to enumerate what exactly is wrong with FW beyond simply being boring?
/AJ
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Hori To
T.R.I.A.D
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Posted - 2010.07.19 17:01:00 -
[59]
how much resources can a bone or two cost?
like LP for FW kills...
/supported |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.07.19 19:37:00 -
[60]
Supported.
FW is by far one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game for me and I would LOVE to see some extra PvP-centric added... or at the very least a clean-up of certain longstanding "quirks."
_______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
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Torrelus Toh'Kon
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Posted - 2010.07.19 21:09:00 -
[61]
I've been in this game nearly 2 years. I jumped into FW after just a few months, and found it to be great fun, and far too broken. So I left to try other things.
Since then, some things have been improved (combat lag, LP/missions/ISK_sink, etc), but as a whole still not enough to be called 'fixed'. Other things are still as broken as when it all started (plexing, lack of consequences of system occupancy, alliances, etc).
I've been other places in the last year, but FW feels like where I should be... shame to find it still the wooden hut I ran away from so long ago.
FW is 2 years old and still needs to be fixed. Equally WIS has been "on the way" just as long. CCP, you need to hurry up and finish the stuff that is "live" before you deploy the stuff that's "coming".
P.S. That bit of propaganda you did regarding the domainance in the Cal/Gal zone ages ago... get real... that situation was a result of the monumental FW problems, not it "working as intended".
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Mongo Edwards
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Posted - 2010.07.20 02:56:00 -
[62]
Please make it worthwhile for me to do the RP stuff. I use to do the plexes just to farm tags but that got old in a hurry. Now I just shoot people and farm lvl 4's to pay for all the ships that blow up from the former (and dumb mistakes in my SB).
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Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2010.07.20 17:35:00 -
[63]
FW is overdue for improvements. Incarna can afford to be vaporware for another six months while CCP tries to fix FW.
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RaveNight
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Posted - 2010.07.20 23:15:00 -
[64]
Edited by: RaveNight on 20/07/2010 23:14:50
Originally by: Kaito Kenshin
Edited by: Kaito Kenshin on 17/07/2010 18:28:20
I decided fairly recently that I'm finished with faction war until it is fixed...or at least improved.
This seems to be the only way a faction can win Factional Warfare -- The other team quits.
Stop this madness, CCP.
I once hugged your executives in Iceland! Due me a favor in return :)
--------------------------------
From the Darkness,
Seen only when desires. |
freakyevilman
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Posted - 2010.07.21 03:49:00 -
[65]
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Villian
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Posted - 2010.07.21 06:19:00 -
[66]
I can't wait for WiS, I'm just as excited to play Dust. Stay the course, CCP!
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Captain Dim
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Posted - 2010.07.21 08:29:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Captain Dim on 21/07/2010 08:29:40
I support it.
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Kazzzi
Iniquitous Technologies
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2010.07.22 06:48:00 -
[68]
CCP can at least have 2 or 3 of their 200 devs fix minor FW bugs instead of ignoring it altogether.
Do not want new stuffs until old stuffs is not completely borken.
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Jandin Kobera
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Posted - 2010.07.22 12:23:00 -
[69]
FW is currently choking on a number of well documented problems and a general lack of new content. It needs an investment of time and resources.
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2010.07.22 20:21:00 -
[70]
hmm clear skies is in my mind ..
FW is beyond fixing
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ceyriot
Filthy Franchise
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Posted - 2010.07.22 20:31:00 -
[71]
Yes...fix the issues that you already know are there please
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Flyinghotpocket
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Posted - 2010.07.26 17:08:00 -
[72]
Fix it. this is an mmorpg for a reason
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Stalking Mantis
Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.07.28 11:54:00 -
[73]
Support
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Enal Angus
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Posted - 2010.07.28 19:55:00 -
[74]
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
vote against.makes no sense to shift their scurm teams and planning around. too much time would be wasted by overhead
Funny when people come here pretending to know stuff and posting strong opinions like this. Are you in marketing? Do you know what any of those words mean?
Scrum is an Agile software process. That means, that unlike the waterfall model, which was used before, it aligns fast. In scrum (and agile in general) you work with small teams, frequent releases of small fixes so that you and the client, together work for a product that meets the clients' needs instead of a go-ahead model where you plan the stuff, then code, package and sell it, then ask the client "didn't you order walking-in-stations?".
You claim an agile process is hard to turn around. It's not.
CCP claims to use scrum, but is still not listening to their clients, the very core of the scrum process.
So there you have it. You don't know what you're talking about.
CCP is a pompous pile of manure that's openly boasting about a software engineering process they apparently aren't even using.
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Aeliae
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Posted - 2010.08.11 15:06:00 -
[75]
Yes CCP, please :) |
Ori Blake
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Posted - 2010.08.11 15:31:00 -
[76]
Quote:
Edit: as for the original topic, I don't give a rats ass. People in big nullsec alliances can't participate. It's just another failed minigame half the clientbase can't even try.
That's good in my book. FW wont be an intro to PvP if those alliances turn it into capship warfare. It's a little bit of a problem as it is now, with CORIM liking to hot drop caps. Minnies have problems as it is getting fleets when Amarr have the numbers on.
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rootimus maximus
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.08.12 02:13:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Gordin Brott
Why do we actually need Second Life in space?
From what I've read, it's got nothing to do with what we want, rather that CCP want to make World of Evecraft, where millions of fraggles sign up and boost their income dramatically. My guess is that it will eventually include nice, safe instances where they can PvE their hearts out in absolute safety.
I run L4 missions loads to fund PvP but the thought of being completely safe while doing so is nearly as awful as the thought of having to go to Jita.
Even if every last one of the current playerbase quits, they're happy to take that hit. Not everyone will quit, so they get that extra cash, too.
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eocsnesemaj
Heavens Gate Consortium
Dead Reckoning Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.28 21:57:00 -
[78]
screw walking in stations. fix current eve then work on expansions
http://tinyurl.com/EostSig |
Boneafi
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Posted - 2010.09.05 09:41:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Boneafi on 05/09/2010 09:41:31
signed x..
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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.09.06 06:54:00 -
[80]
in general fix the whole lowsec.
"There is no honor in war" |
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Mr 15sec
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Posted - 2010.09.22 16:46:00 -
[81]
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.09.23 05:37:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 23/09/2010 05:45:14
FW was dropped completely the week before launch.
There has not been one single hour of dev time spent on it since.
There are 2 weeks showing on CCPs books as being FW dev, however this was FW players spending
2 weeks of intensive debugging on standings lag in lowsec that effected *ALL* players.
So the players dedicated 2 weeks of their play to logging and debugging for CCP.
When will CCP return the favour?
CCP needs to spend at least the same amount on developing FW as they did on hyping it.
Best content in the game.
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Bo Tosh
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Posted - 2010.09.23 08:24:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Bo Tosh on 23/09/2010 08:25:21
FW before Incarna, fun as it may sound to walk in stations if I want to meet people I'll go offline and head out into RL. Most people in EvE I only want to see through weapons flare as their ship burns which FW gives me far more opportunity to do.
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Jayleen Wyld
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.10.01 17:23:00 -
[84]
Yes, fixing FW would be a good idea.
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RC1136 Darman
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.23 23:01:00 -
[85]
Signed Bumped and delivered.
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Har Harrison
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Posted - 2010.11.24 02:56:00 -
[86]
Supported - more FW love please
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Maz3r Rakum
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2010.11.24 03:54:00 -
[87]
supported.
I honestly don't think it would take that much dev time to fix the current situation. Having spent several months in FW and throughly enjoying it, I'm not really sure how to make it better. Though I agree it could use a lot more love.
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Bomberlocks
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.11.24 04:38:00 -
[88]
While I'm or less happy with FW as it is (I don't plex and system occupancy doesn't interest me), mainly because I see FW as the easiest way to get constant targets and easy to find fights, there is a lot of room for improvement.
- System sov should be awarded on a kill/death ratio not by plexing.
- System sov should give the sov holder an LP bonus.
- FW kills should give good LP, based on target value and should replace FW missions as the main way to earn LP. That will help in removing an isk faucet in game.
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Kabaal S'sylistha
The Technomages
Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.24 04:57:00 -
[89]
-More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.11.24 07:13:00 -
[90]
Noah hates FW, he didn't want it released and doesn't want any work done on it now it is.
One personally opinion is ruining gaming experience for a not insignificant portion of players.
We enjoy FW. We like it. It's our part of the game.
Eve is a sandbox game not this "0.0 is the endgame" garbage.
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Gallion
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Posted - 2010.11.24 10:16:00 -
[91]
No. I didn't do a lot of FW. But I would like to see this Expansion deployed, Fixes for FW Fixes can come after January.
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Aphser
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.11.24 16:02:00 -
[92]
+1
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Mana Sanqua
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Posted - 2010.11.24 16:55:00 -
[93]
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Emo Sudan
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Posted - 2010.12.13 08:47:00 -
[94]
Whole heartedly supported. Quite frankly, I really don't understand how some of the *really* basic bugs (read: graphical) haven't been fixed. It's bloody ridiculous! |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.13 09:11:00 -
[95]
Not supported.
Too much whining here. I would happily support any request of improving FW. But demanding that all work in another gameplay area has to stop immediatly until your toys are fixed, is not helpful at all.
Quote:
Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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