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Kalanar
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.08.05 17:56:00 -
[61]
Expect the prices of things like Rocket Fuel and Consumer Electronics (as well as robotics and guidance systems and the like) to also shoot up in price. Because of the current price of electroyltes, from Jita buy prices, Rocket Fuel should be worth over 8k per unit, yet its sitting at about 4k.
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VURDAH
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Posted - 2010.08.05 17:58:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: surf vaquero
"200k a day?" "If 1000 people start making coolant" "at least 400k, within the last few days"
first look at production of electrolytes on the market:
and ALL other Processed Materials. ... isn't high 
You can make 100k coolant only if you have 800k Electrolytes and 800k Water [ofc from planets in low, null security sytems]
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surf vaquero
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Posted - 2010.08.05 18:02:00 -
[63]
Edited by: surf vaquero on 05/08/2010 18:06:12
Originally by: VURDAH
Originally by: surf vaquero
"200k a day?" "If 1000 people start making coolant" "at least 400k, within the last few days"
first look at production of electrolytes on the market:
and ALL other Processed Materials. ... isn't high
You can make 100k coolant only if you have 800k Electrolytes and 800k Water [ofc from planets in low, null security sytems]
The volume of Electrolytes and Water has little to nothing to do with coolant supply; Anyone who buys off the market is either lazy or a fool, it's much more cost-effective to produce it yourself. You can't even begin to speculate on the supply of coolant by basing it off of the P1 components.
edit: having reread your post, you *do* know that I'm saying that your estimates were low and that demand is extremely high, and as a result more people are producing it, causing the market to crash due to a much higher supply (this being true because the market already meets and on weekends exceeds demand)?
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Enilno Onyc
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Posted - 2010.08.05 18:05:00 -
[64]
All the Electrolytes are gone from Jita and some other major trade hubs. Is EVE coming to an end?
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Kalanar
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.08.05 18:05:00 -
[65]
I disagree, as people who sell Electrolytes and Water will simply begin producing coolant if coolant prices far exceed the component prices.
Same applies to something like rocket fuel: if people who make rocket fuel realize they can sell the electrolytes and make more money than for the rocket fuel (which at current Jita buy orders, they CAN, they why wouldn't they just stop producing rocket fuel).
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surf vaquero
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Posted - 2010.08.05 18:12:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Kalanar
Edited by: Kalanar on 05/08/2010 18:09:54
I disagree, as people who sell Electrolytes and Water will simply begin producing coolant if coolant prices far exceed the component prices.
Same applies to something like rocket fuel: if people who make rocket fuel realize they can sell the electrolytes and make more money than for the rocket fuel (which at current Jita buy orders, they CAN, they why wouldn't they just stop producing rocket fuel).
EDIT: Anyone want to screw one person? SavageMoFo is holding all of the selling Electrolytes in Jita.
Assuming you're disagreeing with me, you're assuming they realize or have the PI capacity to produce coolant instead; either way, the volume on the market isn't related to the volume of coolant.
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Kalanar
Wrecking Shots
-Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.08.05 18:17:00 -
[67]
Obviously I understand that relation. I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but I believe that the gap is so large that based on opportunity cost, a producer would develop the capacity (by buying the necessary materials) to begin producing coolant. The economic incentive exists, although I do agree with you about the volume issue.
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VURDAH
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Posted - 2010.08.05 18:38:00 -
[68]
Originally by: surf vaquero
Anyone who buys off the market is either lazy or a fool.
I'm lazy too.
If they aren't, they are cooking by the book.
And you do too oFC.
"You know you cant be lazy." 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQp5l4-sfFA
Sorry, but I don't have time to translate myself,
in order to be able to long term chat with you in this English language.
So i will be not talking too much. 
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surf vaquero
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Posted - 2010.08.05 18:48:00 -
[69]
Originally by: VURDAH
Originally by: surf vaquero
Anyone who buys off the market is either lazy or a fool.
I'm lazy too.
If they aren't, they are cooking by the book.
And you do too oFC.
"You know you cant be lazy."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQp5l4-sfFA
Sorry, but I don't have time to translate myself,
in order to be able to long term chat with you in this English language.
So i will be not talking too much.
I didn't mean buying coolant, I meant buying water and electrolytes to make coolant; it's cheaper and almost easier logistically to produce both yourself and combine them to make coolant.
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VURDAH
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Posted - 2010.08.05 19:02:00 -
[70]
Originally by: surf vaquero
..buying water and electrolytes to make coolant; it's cheaper and almost easier logistically to produce both yourself and combine them to make coolant.
Yes, but only if you have all, in low-null security systems.
[You need much quantites P1 ...from low sec systems.]
And this isn't simple for all who wants produce Coolant. ...
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Droxlyn
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.05 19:21:00 -
[71]
If you don't want to muck around extracting stuff yourself, and the market supports it:
Build yourself one of these on some convenient planet with a radius of 5k or less with 21 Advanced processors (and an optional High-tech processor) and let her rip. It'll let you make 2520 units of coolant per day from 20,160 units of each water and electrolyte.
Perfectly safe because your factory can be in High-sec.
Good luck!
Drox
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battlefar galactica
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Posted - 2010.08.05 19:27:00 -
[72]
thats why the prices of coolant are going up in the first place- i dont do pi but those that do are filling the fourms everyday with rage about the amount of clicking required. Though i do see both sides of the argument-
(1)build coolant yourself (a complete bore and tedious)
(2)buy the coolant- but that is skyrocketing because of number 1
those that enjoy clicking thier mice will obviously sit like robots making coolant- those that dont will move onto something else- the main reason for the spike of coolant
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.05 19:50:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 05/08/2010 19:50:34
An the market makers in the middle profit greatly.
I made around 600 Million on electrolytes over the last day or so.
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heheheh
PedoHamma
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Posted - 2010.08.05 20:45:00 -
[74]
Market manipulation at its finest is going down.
Be very aware of changing your pruduce on a whim.
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Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.08.05 21:27:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Grozen on 05/08/2010 21:33:39
all i see is ppl bying and reselling not much speculation...
Also quick calculation:
water40x600=24k
electrolytes40xaprox 2k each=80k
80+24=124k p/u hax or wut
knowledge is power |
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
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Posted - 2010.08.05 21:41:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Riley Moore on 05/08/2010 21:41:18
Originally by: Grozen
Edited by: Grozen on 05/08/2010 21:33:39
all i see is ppl bying and reselling not much speculation...
Also quick calculation:
water40x600=24k
electrolytes40xaprox 2k each=80k
80+24=124k p/u hax or wut
U forgot to devide by 5 (124k/5 = 24,800 pu) :P
-------
Sentinum Research Blueprints Store
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Ender2006
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.08.05 22:23:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Ender2006 on 05/08/2010 22:22:51
haha yes vurduh. I'm home from work. :-P My turn to sell coolant now!
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.08.05 23:10:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Janelle Arsai
Originally by: Vaal Erit
CCP forgot to tweak the POS fuel requirements (coolant requires 2x more than EU or mech parts)
Not true when you factor in Robotics needing Mech Parts.
While coolant is 8 per hour for a large, Mech is 8.3 per hour when Robotics is factored in. Even worse when you account for Medium and Small pos's where its always 1 robotics per hour.
True. Tbh I don't know how to add in the factor that mech parts are used for robotics. I figure if people make robotics from PI even though they are making mech parts, it is being consumed and not being thrown on the market. However, if someone just makes mech parts and sells them then it will take a lot less people to satisfy the demand of mech parts because of the 5/hr fuel requirement instead of 8/hr of coolant.
I've seen people buy up mech parts and I don't think it has the legs that coolant does, mech parts is a ton easier to create in hi-sec and as I've stated if people go for full mech parts production it will be easier to meet the demand. Mech parts at 5k seemed underpriced to me but I don't think I'd value it as high as coolant.
-
It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Veni Ra
Amarr
Brotherhood Of Cash
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Posted - 2010.08.05 23:29:00 -
[79]
well i came up to Jita last night to take part in the great coolant rush. It was fun. Just killed off the last of the 19k p/u buy orders with a lil help from other ppl and the highest buy right now is 17k p/u with change.
Now i am waiting for the price to crash, than buy up more coolant and let the cycle begin again.
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MMarlon
SRBI
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.08.05 23:35:00 -
[80]
Yes, nice milking.
However, about Coolant-Mech parts comparison, there is not a single solid argument to justify 17k/pu Coolant vs 5k/pu Mech Parts. Either Coolant is pumped hard up or Mech Parts very underpriced; giving overall POS consumption goes to the Mech Parts favor.
Ya, Coolant will dump, Mech Parts hold, imo, for my stock.
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surf vaquero
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Posted - 2010.08.05 23:40:00 -
[81]
Originally by: MMarlon
Yes, nice milking.
However, about Coolant-Mech parts comparison, there is not a single solid argument to justify 17k/pu Coolant vs 5k/pu Mech Parts. Either Coolant is pumped hard up or Mech Parts very underpriced; giving overall POS consumption goes to the Mech Parts favor.
Ya, Coolant will dump, Mech Parts hold, imo, for my stock.
Both are true and are being reflected right now; mech parts are high in every place except for Jita right now (currently like 30k in Rens or something insane like that), this is a time to start buying. Coolant is crashing, already down 10k today from last night (which means that VURDAH is out like 30 billion isk if he held onto his stock) and I expect it to continue to crash before stabilizing between 5 and 10k. Mech parts are a buy, buy, buy situation though, which will be reflecting on robotics: anything below 12k or so on mech parts is a good buy, anything below 27k on robotics is a superb buy. Don't panic sell over the weekend, either, but next thursday expect mech parts at 20k in Jita and Robotics touching 35-40.
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Janelle Arsai
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Posted - 2010.08.05 23:52:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: Janelle Arsai
Originally by: Vaal Erit
CCP forgot to tweak the POS fuel requirements (coolant requires 2x more than EU or mech parts)
Not true when you factor in Robotics needing Mech Parts.
While coolant is 8 per hour for a large, Mech is 8.3 per hour when Robotics is factored in. Even worse when you account for Medium and Small pos's where its always 1 robotics per hour.
True. Tbh I don't know how to add in the factor that mech parts are used for robotics. I figure if people make robotics from PI even though they are making mech parts, it is being consumed and not being thrown on the market. However, if someone just makes mech parts and sells them then it will take a lot less people to satisfy the demand of mech parts because of the 5/hr fuel requirement instead of 8/hr of coolant.
I've seen people buy up mech parts and I don't think it has the legs that coolant does, mech parts is a ton easier to create in hi-sec and as I've stated if people go for full mech parts production it will be easier to meet the demand. Mech parts at 5k seemed underpriced to me but I don't think I'd value it as high as coolant.
True on the production amounts, but that is why usage matters so much. Like so
Coolant -> Pos Fuel
Coolant -> Condensates (pi only use)
Coolant -> Supercomputers (pi only use)
vs
Mech Parts -> Pos Fuel
Mech Parts -> Robotics which is also a POS fuel
Mech Parts -> T2 Mods (damage mods and strips etc)
Mech Parts -> Vehicles (pi only use)
So not only is it used twice over as a fuel, its also in some T2 mods. So we would need that easier production, and even then, no one is going to make it until coolant crashes, and enriched uran, and super tensiles, polys all things more profitable right now than Mech.
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PinkFish
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Posted - 2010.08.06 02:52:00 -
[83]
MD is being so easily manipulated by obvious threads. This community used to be much more cautious about listening to the drivel that comes up on individual products like this.
OP posts there is not enough supply. Price spike from dozens of traders.
New thread about changes on sisi increasing supply. Panic sell crash from dozens of traders.
So, is the second thread an attempt to position the market for another round of buy-up? Or is it an attempt to screw over the first thread crowd?
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Veni Ra
Amarr
Brotherhood Of Cash
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Posted - 2010.08.06 03:32:00 -
[84]
Originally by: PinkFish
So, is the second thread an attempt to position the market for another round of buy-up? Or is it an attempt to screw over the first thread crowd?
I definitely hope that coolant will continue to be manipulated, I have made nothing but profit from it. Im a small time trader and i made almost 1B on it since Tyrannis lunch.
What should fallow next is a great oversupply, even a further price crash, ppl switching planets to different materials.... buy out and another price spike. Ill give it a month.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.08.06 06:45:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Veni Ra
I definitely hope that coolant will continue to be manipulated, I have made nothing but profit from it. Im a small time trader and i made almost 1B on it since Tyrannis lunch.
Yeah, rather than dismiss it as manipulation, look at those threads as signals to the collective on which way to move for great profit.
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Janelle Arsai
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Posted - 2010.08.06 14:44:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Veni Ra
I definitely hope that coolant will continue to be manipulated, I have made nothing but profit from it. Im a small time trader and i made almost 1B on it since Tyrannis lunch.
Yeah, rather than dismiss it as manipulation, look at those threads as signals to the collective on which way to move for great profit.
Yes, MD threads like these are at least a way to gauge the "hive mind" if you will. I think everyone expects coolant to crash hard once enough people have switched over, the question then is, what is next up. There is lots of profit to be made from the time delay between market and production.
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VURDAH
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Posted - 2010.08.06 14:44:00 -
[87]
I will raise Coolant buying orders in Jita to 20k today!
for the next 5+ days.
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Allana Baselle
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Posted - 2010.08.06 17:48:00 -
[88]
Update: Recent coolant price increases seem to be spilling over into other commodities and products as we start to see price increases in Condensates and Organic Mortar Applicators. With all the recent pricing pressure many expect POS construction costs to rise in addition to the already inflated prices for fuel. Despite continued doubt about coolant's ability to stay above twenty thousand isk per unit, operations desperate to remain in business continue to pay these absorbent prices.
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EvilCheez
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Posted - 2010.08.06 18:31:00 -
[89]
exorbitant - think your spell check may have betrayed you there.
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Berikath
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Posted - 2010.08.06 18:50:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Allana Baselle
There are reports of regional shortages as speculators buy up remaining reserves. Coolant has performed well during the recent downturn in the PI sector and has seen more than a 60% increase over the last 5 trading days in Jita. Certain market professionals predict even higher prices as production has fallen and demand has remained consistent. Other investors believe the increase is only temporary since production will surely increase in the near future and since more independent moon operations have decided to go off-line as rising fuel prices has made an increasing number of moon materials unprofitable to mine.
.....
On a personal note, I've just gotta say.......
You suck. Now my electrolyte costs for eventual P4 production are through the roof. Ah want mah ISK fountain back!
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