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Loka	Posted - 2004.12.21 14:30:00 - [151] well targets not webbed, will jump either. Webbed targets wont make it either, if they dont fight. Except you dont bring the firepower to break his tank. 1vs1 fights are always outanked or beeing a dmg***. In both scenarios more HP wont change anything. Not only your oponent has more but you too. If you break his tank or dry his cap, he will sink. That simple. More HP will make a huge different in fleetbattles and will bring more setups ot the light. Well we will see if its good or bad. But imo its too early to say either. NPC hunting must as ballanced as mining and PvP. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive**
Loka	Posted - 2004.12.21 14:30:00 - [152] well targets not webbed, will jump either. Webbed targets wont make it either, if they dont fight. Except you dont bring the firepower to break his tank. 1vs1 fights are always outanked or beeing a dmg***. In both scenarios more HP wont change anything. Not only your oponent has more but you too. If you break his tank or dry his cap, he will sink. That simple. More HP will make a huge different in fleetbattles and will bring more setups ot the light. Well we will see if its good or bad. But imo its too early to say either. NPC hunting must as ballanced as mining and PvP. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive**
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2004.12.21 14:38:00 - [153] Originally by: Siddy Originally by: Khaldorn Murino lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh? Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want. Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values. like they did when they fixed projektiles? right? I stand corrected. - "Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2004.12.21 14:38:00 - [154] Originally by: Siddy Originally by: Khaldorn Murino lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh? Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want. Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values. like they did when they fixed projektiles? right? I stand corrected. - "Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
flummox	Posted - 2004.12.21 14:40:00 - [155] Originally by: Terle Originally by: flummox Originally by: j0sephine "that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods." Yes, if i wish to help to test the game, i have to ask other players to provide me with means to perform the tests and take extra time to jump through all involved hoops. The question remains -- how is that making the test server any more efficient? "how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it..." How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave... how was i being a "fanboi" ?? by giving you suggestions to help solve your problem ?? that makes me a fanboy? so you wanted to whine but not get solutions to the problem? what, you just wanted someone to listen to you? my ex-girlfriend used to do that to me all the time. she'd moan and complain about something and after listening i'd offer my opinions. she'd just cry more and say, "i just wanted someone to listen to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! waaah!" okay. well, have fun with your problem then. i choose to do something about it instead of just whining. You seem to be negating yourself with your basic premise, the "community" on the test server. Last time I logged onto the test server there were exactly 9 people on. It seems the only one "whining" here is you. Whining meaning complaining with no apparent reason, a concept you apparently do not get Flummox. Of course, I highly doubt you'll get the meaning of this post either, it doesn't say what you want it too hehe. BTW, I think the fanboi turnaround suited Flummox perfectly Josephine really? exactly how am i the one whining? and what's the topic i'm whining about? could you quote me where i am complaining about something but not doing anything about it? you are dead wrong on everything in your post about me. fanboi? uh, okay. if "hating whiney people who cry to their god/dev instead of picking up their own pieces" makes me a fanboi, then i must be in a parralel universe. okay. maybe i'm a little irritated about FCC because we've been hearing people WHINE about it for 3 months now. and, those WHINERS, and even the people who ask nicely, have been given the answer to their problem. they said they'd look into it. there were thread after thread posted about this subject during Shiva testing. okay? it's getting old... yeah. i'm a fanboi alright. pfffffffffff! i ain't the one whining about FCC, Terle. only thing i can be said to whine about would be people who rag on about topics that have been fussed over for months. and, yes, i'm a fanboi of stamping out ignorance... there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on...
flummox	Posted - 2004.12.21 14:40:00 - [156] Originally by: Terle Originally by: flummox Originally by: j0sephine "that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods." Yes, if i wish to help to test the game, i have to ask other players to provide me with means to perform the tests and take extra time to jump through all involved hoops. The question remains -- how is that making the test server any more efficient? "how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it..." How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave... how was i being a "fanboi" ?? by giving you suggestions to help solve your problem ?? that makes me a fanboy? so you wanted to whine but not get solutions to the problem? what, you just wanted someone to listen to you? my ex-girlfriend used to do that to me all the time. she'd moan and complain about something and after listening i'd offer my opinions. she'd just cry more and say, "i just wanted someone to listen to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! waaah!" okay. well, have fun with your problem then. i choose to do something about it instead of just whining. You seem to be negating yourself with your basic premise, the "community" on the test server. Last time I logged onto the test server there were exactly 9 people on. It seems the only one "whining" here is you. Whining meaning complaining with no apparent reason, a concept you apparently do not get Flummox. Of course, I highly doubt you'll get the meaning of this post either, it doesn't say what you want it too hehe. BTW, I think the fanboi turnaround suited Flummox perfectly Josephine really? exactly how am i the one whining? and what's the topic i'm whining about? could you quote me where i am complaining about something but not doing anything about it? you are dead wrong on everything in your post about me. fanboi? uh, okay. if "hating whiney people who cry to their god/dev instead of picking up their own pieces" makes me a fanboi, then i must be in a parralel universe. okay. maybe i'm a little irritated about FCC because we've been hearing people WHINE about it for 3 months now. and, those WHINERS, and even the people who ask nicely, have been given the answer to their problem. they said they'd look into it. there were thread after thread posted about this subject during Shiva testing. okay? it's getting old... yeah. i'm a fanboi alright. pfffffffffff! i ain't the one whining about FCC, Terle. only thing i can be said to whine about would be people who rag on about topics that have been fussed over for months. and, yes, i'm a fanboi of stamping out ignorance... there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on...
Nafri	Posted - 2004.12.21 14:59:00 - [157] Originally by: Hardin I am going to shut up now... This is clearly a Minmatar conspiracy its better, cause rails/blaster use much more cap then lasers Ever seen your cap when you activate your blasters on a megathron? Wanna fly with me?
Nafri	Posted - 2004.12.21 14:59:00 - [158] Originally by: Hardin I am going to shut up now... This is clearly a Minmatar conspiracy its better, cause rails/blaster use much more cap then lasers Ever seen your cap when you activate your blasters on a megathron? Wanna fly with me?
Sforza	Posted - 2004.12.21 15:03:00 - [159] Hardin probably hasnt actually seen the cap usage on blasters, as he and the rest of PIE (admirably, in my view) only fly Amarr ships. I also remember when lasers did the rare feat of managing to both suck and blow at the same time Sforza CEO Vronsky Brothers and Sons Council Member Ushra'Khan
Sforza	Posted - 2004.12.21 15:03:00 - [160] Hardin probably hasnt actually seen the cap usage on blasters, as he and the rest of PIE (admirably, in my view) only fly Amarr ships. I also remember when lasers did the rare feat of managing to both suck and blow at the same time Sforza CEO Vronsky Brothers and Sons Council Member Ushra'Khan

Ranger 1	Posted - 2004.12.21 15:49:00 - [161] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/12/2004 15:50:56 A humble suggestion... actually READ the dev blog before you post your opinion here, including the dev responses included in it. Better yet, do as the post asks and actually try it out on the test server first. PVP is concentual on the test server, so you do NOT have to fight to the death. I'm very happy the fight club will be started up there, it will help a lot.... but it certainly does not mean that zero testing can be done in the meantime. Granted, combat to the death will be much more informative... but that will come. And then, when you have some vague idea of how it will work in practice, form an opinion and post. Back it up with facts and observations and someone might pay attention to your opinion. Remember, they are ASKING you for informed opinions on how to balance this... the numbers are far from final. Kill the enemy, and break their toys.
Ranger 1	Posted - 2004.12.21 15:49:00 - [162] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/12/2004 15:50:56 A humble suggestion... actually READ the dev blog before you post your opinion here, including the dev responses included in it. Better yet, do as the post asks and actually try it out on the test server first. PVP is concentual on the test server, so you do NOT have to fight to the death. I'm very happy the fight club will be started up there, it will help a lot.... but it certainly does not mean that zero testing can be done in the meantime. Granted, combat to the death will be much more informative... but that will come. And then, when you have some vague idea of how it will work in practice, form an opinion and post. Back it up with facts and observations and someone might pay attention to your opinion. Remember, they are ASKING you for informed opinions on how to balance this... the numbers are far from final. Kill the enemy, and break their toys.
Pottsey	Posted - 2004.12.21 18:14:00 - [163] What I donÆt want to happen is finding out Gallente are no longer the best passive shield tankers. It seems unfair to take a race that was the best at something for over a year and making it so they are no longer the best. Caldari should have the most shield hitpoints and best active shield boosters. Gallente should have the best passive shield tanking but overall less shield hitpoints then Caldari. Perhaps boost Caldari hitpoints by 100% but boost Gallente shield recharge more by 30% and shield hitpoints by 50%. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Pottsey	Posted - 2004.12.21 18:14:00 - [164] What I donÆt want to happen is finding out Gallente are no longer the best passive shield tankers. It seems unfair to take a race that was the best at something for over a year and making it so they are no longer the best. Caldari should have the most shield hitpoints and best active shield boosters. Gallente should have the best passive shield tanking but overall less shield hitpoints then Caldari. Perhaps boost Caldari hitpoints by 100% but boost Gallente shield recharge more by 30% and shield hitpoints by 50%. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Nafri	Posted - 2004.12.21 19:27:00 - [165] Originally by: Pottsey What I donÆt want to happen is finding out Gallente are no longer the best passive shield tankers. It seems unfair to take a race that was the best at something for over a year and making it so they are no longer the best. Caldari should have the most shield hitpoints and best active shield boosters. Gallente should have the best passive shield tanking but overall less shield hitpoints then Caldari. Perhaps boost Caldari hitpoints by 100% but boost Gallente shield recharge more by 30% and shield hitpoints by 50%. õhh please dont disturb Devs getting PvP back in Order ok? Wanna fly with me?
Nafri	Posted - 2004.12.21 19:27:00 - [166] Originally by: Pottsey What I donÆt want to happen is finding out Gallente are no longer the best passive shield tankers. It seems unfair to take a race that was the best at something for over a year and making it so they are no longer the best. Caldari should have the most shield hitpoints and best active shield boosters. Gallente should have the best passive shield tanking but overall less shield hitpoints then Caldari. Perhaps boost Caldari hitpoints by 100% but boost Gallente shield recharge more by 30% and shield hitpoints by 50%. õhh please dont disturb Devs getting PvP back in Order ok? Wanna fly with me?
Pottsey	Posted - 2004.12.21 19:41:00 - [167] öõhh please dont disturb Devs getting PvP back in Order ok?ö I am not trying to disturb the devs I just want them to get it right without missing it up for us lot that passive tank and this change effects more then just PvP and some of us passive tank in PvP. If your going mess around with shield hitpoints you need to think about how its going effect passive tankers. Will it make us to powerful or will it make or worse. Right now passive tanking is balance but these change's could unbalance it. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Pottsey	Posted - 2004.12.21 19:41:00 - [168] öõhh please dont disturb Devs getting PvP back in Order ok?ö I am not trying to disturb the devs I just want them to get it right without missing it up for us lot that passive tank and this change effects more then just PvP and some of us passive tank in PvP. If your going mess around with shield hitpoints you need to think about how its going effect passive tankers. Will it make us to powerful or will it make or worse. Right now passive tanking is balance but these change's could unbalance it. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Nafri	Posted - 2004.12.21 19:56:00 - [169] i would laugh at anyone who does passive tanking no matter what Wanna fly with me?
Nafri	Posted - 2004.12.21 19:56:00 - [170] i would laugh at anyone who does passive tanking no matter what Wanna fly with me?

Pottsey	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:03:00 - [171] Edited by: Pottsey on 21/12/2004 20:04:56 Why whatÆs so bad about 108 shield points a second with no cap drain or 80+ with hardners and T1 modules? ThatÆs more then an extra large shield booster T1. Perhaps we should start a new thread about is or isnÆt passive tanking worth it as I dont want to take over this thread. But people use passive setups so so it does need to be balanced with the new changes. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Pottsey	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:03:00 - [172] Edited by: Pottsey on 21/12/2004 20:04:56 Why whatÆs so bad about 108 shield points a second with no cap drain or 80+ with hardners and T1 modules? ThatÆs more then an extra large shield booster T1. Perhaps we should start a new thread about is or isnÆt passive tanking worth it as I dont want to take over this thread. But people use passive setups so so it does need to be balanced with the new changes. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source.
Gierling	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:08:00 - [173] Ok can someone please explain the logic of 300% structure? Structure has no resists, the number would have to be ridiculous big to even be remotely useable. Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking. Unless of course, this is coming as a prereq to getting rid of Tanking (which would be great). Maybe thier planning on making all repairers unusable in combat that would give Logistics cruisers a purpose. Bastards we are lest Bastards we become.
Gierling	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:08:00 - [174] Ok can someone please explain the logic of 300% structure? Structure has no resists, the number would have to be ridiculous big to even be remotely useable. Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking. Unless of course, this is coming as a prereq to getting rid of Tanking (which would be great). Maybe thier planning on making all repairers unusable in combat that would give Logistics cruisers a purpose. Bastards we are lest Bastards we become.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:26:00 - [175] Originally by: Gierling Ok can someone please explain the logic of 300% structure? Structure has no resists, the number would have to be ridiculous big to even be remotely useable. Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking. Unless of course, this is coming as a prereq to getting rid of Tanking (which would be great). Maybe thier planning on making all repairers unusable in combat that would give Logistics cruisers a purpose. Nah, you're wrong. 3000% to structure would be insanely better than 100% extra armor. The amount of raw damage you'd have to do is huge. But alas, its only 300% and I doubt you'll ever be able to tank structure. Megathron has around 9300 armor and 24000 structure while apoc has 12000 armor and 10000? structure.. Main problem right now is the balance of the megathron. Apoc's bonus makes it so lasers use less cap than hybrids, which is the stupidest thing I've heard of, since one of the main justifications for their cap bonus is they need it. Now they don't, which lets them tank forever. Tbh giving megathron structure bonus only reinforces the fact that its better to just go in gank style, since tanking nerfs your damage significantly on the megathron, and you'll never be able to match an apoc. Imo, megapulse need a significant range nerf so it gives people a reason to use the higher cap use lasers like megabeam/tach in ranges that don't exceed 60km. Cap use of lasers should be reset to old values or the bonus should be lowered back to 5%, when they did the laser rebalance it was clearly too much to do both. ps: I did go on sisi and test. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:26:00 - [176] Originally by: Gierling Ok can someone please explain the logic of 300% structure? Structure has no resists, the number would have to be ridiculous big to even be remotely useable. Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking. Unless of course, this is coming as a prereq to getting rid of Tanking (which would be great). Maybe thier planning on making all repairers unusable in combat that would give Logistics cruisers a purpose. Nah, you're wrong. 3000% to structure would be insanely better than 100% extra armor. The amount of raw damage you'd have to do is huge. But alas, its only 300% and I doubt you'll ever be able to tank structure. Megathron has around 9300 armor and 24000 structure while apoc has 12000 armor and 10000? structure.. Main problem right now is the balance of the megathron. Apoc's bonus makes it so lasers use less cap than hybrids, which is the stupidest thing I've heard of, since one of the main justifications for their cap bonus is they need it. Now they don't, which lets them tank forever. Tbh giving megathron structure bonus only reinforces the fact that its better to just go in gank style, since tanking nerfs your damage significantly on the megathron, and you'll never be able to match an apoc. Imo, megapulse need a significant range nerf so it gives people a reason to use the higher cap use lasers like megabeam/tach in ranges that don't exceed 60km. Cap use of lasers should be reset to old values or the bonus should be lowered back to 5%, when they did the laser rebalance it was clearly too much to do both. ps: I did go on sisi and test. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:41:00 - [177] "Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking." ... To balance 3000 hp of structure with 100 hp of hardened shield/armour, you'd need your hardening/tanking be at least 97% effective. ^^;
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:41:00 - [178] "Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking." ... To balance 3000 hp of structure with 100 hp of hardened shield/armour, you'd need your hardening/tanking be at least 97% effective. ^^;
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:56:00 - [179] DC, The hybrid cap vs laser cap argument has been brought up a million times but nothing is ever done about it Will the increased HP's result in a change of MASS for each ship? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:56:00 - [180] DC, The hybrid cap vs laser cap argument has been brought up a million times but nothing is ever done about it Will the increased HP's result in a change of MASS for each ship? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!



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