Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
kieron
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:05:00 -
[1]
Yup, you read it right, the Master of the Nerf Bat has posted a new Dev Blog, but this one isn't a nerf. In fact, it's an anti-nerf (un-nerf?). Whatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
|
kieron
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:05:00 -
[2]
Yup, you read it right, the Master of the Nerf Bat has posted a new Dev Blog, but this one isn't a nerf. In fact, it's an anti-nerf (un-nerf?). Whatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
|
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:08:00 -
[3]
Edited by: flummox on 20/12/2004 17:08:46
awesome!
UnNerf !! w00t !
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:08:00 -
[4]
Edited by: flummox on 20/12/2004 17:08:46
awesome!
UnNerf !! w00t !
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
LoxyRider
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:14:00 -
[5]
I'l take "Buff" bob for 100.
And oooooooh interesting. ----- Eris Discordia; I think the proper term is <3
|
LoxyRider
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:14:00 -
[6]
I'l take "Buff" bob for 100.
And oooooooh interesting. ----- Eris Discordia; I think the proper term is <3
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:15:00 -
[7]
"Whatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity."
Kieron, with all due respect... please don't ask for impossible.
There is no ships to test the hp changes with on Singularity, because the NPC market ends on tier.1 cruisers, and no one is insane enough to actually run mass-production on test server. So the best ships players can test stuff with are the basic cruisers, and whatever personal ships they have left on what, month+ old mirror?
Please, put back the FCC on test server, or give all players the /spawn command, or make a macro that seeds the market after every restart, or shut the bloody server down if no one can be arsed with any of these... whatever, just don't ask for what can't be done, because it comes through like mockery. Especially when the test in question will pretty much require blowing up large amounts of ships to 'test' this new change --;;
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:15:00 -
[8]
"Whatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity."
Kieron, with all due respect... please don't ask for impossible.
There is no ships to test the hp changes with on Singularity, because the NPC market ends on tier.1 cruisers, and no one is insane enough to actually run mass-production on test server. So the best ships players can test stuff with are the basic cruisers, and whatever personal ships they have left on what, month+ old mirror?
Please, put back the FCC on test server, or give all players the /spawn command, or make a macro that seeds the market after every restart, or shut the bloody server down if no one can be arsed with any of these... whatever, just don't ask for what can't be done, because it comes through like mockery. Especially when the test in question will pretty much require blowing up large amounts of ships to 'test' this new change --;;
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:28:00 -
[9]
Um. UM.
So, I shouldn't be armour tanking Minmatar ships? GAH.
Sorry, I think these changes are bad.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:28:00 -
[10]
Um. UM.
So, I shouldn't be armour tanking Minmatar ships? GAH.
Sorry, I think these changes are bad.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
|
Oveur
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: j0sephine "Whatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity."
Kieron, with all due respect... please don't ask for impossible.
There is no ships to test the hp changes with on Singularity, because the NPC market ends on tier.1 cruisers, and no one is insane enough to actually run mass-production on test server. So the best ships players can test stuff with are the basic cruisers, and whatever personal ships they have left on what, month+ old mirror?
Please, put back the FCC on test server, or give all players the /spawn command, or make a macro that seeds the market after every restart, or shut the bloody server down if no one can be arsed with any of these... whatever, just don't ask for what can't be done, because it comes through like mockery. Especially when the test in question will pretty much require blowing up large amounts of ships to 'test' this new change --;;
I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ.
If you are interested in further testing, you'll be pleased to know Fight Club will be reinstated on Sisi when we get some database admin love on it. However, if you are even more interested in structured testing, you might be able to get into one of the Sisi balancing teams. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
Oveur
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: j0sephine "Whatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity."
Kieron, with all due respect... please don't ask for impossible.
There is no ships to test the hp changes with on Singularity, because the NPC market ends on tier.1 cruisers, and no one is insane enough to actually run mass-production on test server. So the best ships players can test stuff with are the basic cruisers, and whatever personal ships they have left on what, month+ old mirror?
Please, put back the FCC on test server, or give all players the /spawn command, or make a macro that seeds the market after every restart, or shut the bloody server down if no one can be arsed with any of these... whatever, just don't ask for what can't be done, because it comes through like mockery. Especially when the test in question will pretty much require blowing up large amounts of ships to 'test' this new change --;;
I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ.
If you are interested in further testing, you'll be pleased to know Fight Club will be reinstated on Sisi when we get some database admin love on it. However, if you are even more interested in structured testing, you might be able to get into one of the Sisi balancing teams. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
Gunstar Zero
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:33:00 -
[13]
I love the idea of more HP, especially as I'm in a frigate 90% of the time. The bonuses dont look quite right just yet, but perhaps I dont see the whole picture? Perhaps a quick paragraph detailing the motivation behind each race's changes?
|
Gunstar Zero
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:33:00 -
[14]
I love the idea of more HP, especially as I'm in a frigate 90% of the time. The bonuses dont look quite right just yet, but perhaps I dont see the whole picture? Perhaps a quick paragraph detailing the motivation behind each race's changes?
|
meowcat
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:34:00 -
[15]
Edited by: meowcat on 20/12/2004 17:36:45 any particular reason gallente get loads of crappy structure points?
just curious, always thought gallente were supposed to amrour tank?
edit: great idea, just that the split seems a bit odd.
note: reducing duration of reps may need some tweaks to cap usage also
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
meowcat
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:34:00 -
[16]
Edited by: meowcat on 20/12/2004 17:36:45 any particular reason gallente get loads of crappy structure points?
just curious, always thought gallente were supposed to amrour tank?
edit: great idea, just that the split seems a bit odd.
note: reducing duration of reps may need some tweaks to cap usage also
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
RollinDutchMasters
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Oveur I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ.
If you are interested in further testing, you'll be pleased to know Fight Club will be reinstated on Sisi when we get some database admin love on it. However, if you are even more interested in structured testing, you might be able to get into one of the Sisi balancing teams.
What should those of us with very low security status do? Sit around and swap stories about what it was like on Chaos, when things could actually be tested?
Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
|
RollinDutchMasters
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Oveur I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ.
If you are interested in further testing, you'll be pleased to know Fight Club will be reinstated on Sisi when we get some database admin love on it. However, if you are even more interested in structured testing, you might be able to get into one of the Sisi balancing teams.
What should those of us with very low security status do? Sit around and swap stories about what it was like on Chaos, when things could actually be tested?
Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:41:00 -
[19]
Okay, more detail.
Perhaps frigate combat's a bit quick. Maybe.
But BS combat ISN'T. When you have fleets of 40+ clashing, and ~10 die over the space of 30 minutes, the toughness of BS is FINE. Increasing it is just going to lead to it being hard to have meaningful fleet PvP.
Also, as I said, it's going to REALLY punish those ships which are NOT set up for the majority "boosting" type of that race.
Finally, it's allready hard for some BS and cruiser duels to end in a satisfactory soloution. I can see a LOT of "draws" where small combats end in a stalemate becuse of these, and it makes it even harder for say a cruiser pack to take down a battleship.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:41:00 -
[20]
Okay, more detail.
Perhaps frigate combat's a bit quick. Maybe.
But BS combat ISN'T. When you have fleets of 40+ clashing, and ~10 die over the space of 30 minutes, the toughness of BS is FINE. Increasing it is just going to lead to it being hard to have meaningful fleet PvP.
Also, as I said, it's going to REALLY punish those ships which are NOT set up for the majority "boosting" type of that race.
Finally, it's allready hard for some BS and cruiser duels to end in a satisfactory soloution. I can see a LOT of "draws" where small combats end in a stalemate becuse of these, and it makes it even harder for say a cruiser pack to take down a battleship.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:47:00 -
[21]
"I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ."
There's two unfortunate drawbacks to this: #1 as stated already, the TQ mirror is quite old and so the chances for anyone who spends some reasonable amount of time on test server to still have their TQ setup is very slim. And #2, this sort of test can be done just once. When your TQ ship gets blown up, you can't really repeat the test with similar setup, which means any testing will give very random results (can't really test things reliably if the tests cannot be repeated enough times)
It's good to hear the FC might make the re-appearance, though. ^^
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:47:00 -
[22]
"I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ."
There's two unfortunate drawbacks to this: #1 as stated already, the TQ mirror is quite old and so the chances for anyone who spends some reasonable amount of time on test server to still have their TQ setup is very slim. And #2, this sort of test can be done just once. When your TQ ship gets blown up, you can't really repeat the test with similar setup, which means any testing will give very random results (can't really test things reliably if the tests cannot be repeated enough times)
It's good to hear the FC might make the re-appearance, though. ^^
|
Bundin Sirannon
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:48:00 -
[23]
In fact, this is a nerf.
All guns will be less effective at killing someone. So all guns/missiles are nerfed. This means you'll have to bring more ammo/missiles, which reduces cargohold. How do you justify the changes with respect to mass and agility? Agent kill-missions will take longer and cost more for non-laser ships, is that taken into account? They'll also become easier, since player ships don't die that quickly anymore.. There are tons of variables that need to be taken into account.
An alternative:
If the guns are considered too powerful when compared to the ships, make sure everyone can fly T2 ships more easily. Evolution means new models, not radically changing an old model all of a sudden. Reduce the costs and speed up skill-training ability for the T2 ships a bit, and slowly phase out T1. At a certain point, I can imagine new players starting at T2 level, since that's the lowest tech-level generally in use.
In short: don't update T1, it doesn't make sense that the old kestrel suddenly has more hitpoints. Instead, get moving with T2/3/4/5/6... We already have a virtual Tech 1.5 with the destroyers and the like, does that not compensate enough? ------ NewDawn - Soaring where angels fear to fly! |
Bundin Sirannon
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:48:00 -
[24]
In fact, this is a nerf.
All guns will be less effective at killing someone. So all guns/missiles are nerfed. This means you'll have to bring more ammo/missiles, which reduces cargohold. How do you justify the changes with respect to mass and agility? Agent kill-missions will take longer and cost more for non-laser ships, is that taken into account? They'll also become easier, since player ships don't die that quickly anymore.. There are tons of variables that need to be taken into account.
An alternative:
If the guns are considered too powerful when compared to the ships, make sure everyone can fly T2 ships more easily. Evolution means new models, not radically changing an old model all of a sudden. Reduce the costs and speed up skill-training ability for the T2 ships a bit, and slowly phase out T1. At a certain point, I can imagine new players starting at T2 level, since that's the lowest tech-level generally in use.
In short: don't update T1, it doesn't make sense that the old kestrel suddenly has more hitpoints. Instead, get moving with T2/3/4/5/6... We already have a virtual Tech 1.5 with the destroyers and the like, does that not compensate enough? ------ NewDawn - Soaring where angels fear to fly! |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: j0sephine "I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ."
There's two unfortunate drawbacks to this: #1 as stated already, the TQ mirror is quite old and so the chances for anyone who spends some reasonable amount of time on test server to still have their TQ setup is very slim. And #2, this sort of test can be done just once. When your TQ ship gets blown up, you can't really repeat the test with similar setup, which means any testing will give very random results (can't really test things reliably if the tests cannot be repeated enough times)
It's good to hear the FC might make the re-appearance, though. ^^
two complaints... then don't test. okay?
the Sisi testing is for the rest of us lemmings who think trying stuff out isn't a waste of our time.
p.s. some people own a lot of ships/mods. i for one wouldn't mind blowing a few up...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: j0sephine "I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ."
There's two unfortunate drawbacks to this: #1 as stated already, the TQ mirror is quite old and so the chances for anyone who spends some reasonable amount of time on test server to still have their TQ setup is very slim. And #2, this sort of test can be done just once. When your TQ ship gets blown up, you can't really repeat the test with similar setup, which means any testing will give very random results (can't really test things reliably if the tests cannot be repeated enough times)
It's good to hear the FC might make the re-appearance, though. ^^
two complaints... then don't test. okay?
the Sisi testing is for the rest of us lemmings who think trying stuff out isn't a waste of our time.
p.s. some people own a lot of ships/mods. i for one wouldn't mind blowing a few up...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Bundin Sirannon
An alternative:
If the guns are considered too powerful when compared to the ships, make sure everyone can fly T2 ships more easily. Evolution means new models, not radically changing an old model all of a sudden. Reduce the costs and speed up skill-training ability for the T2 ships a bit, and slowly phase out T1. At a certain point, I can imagine new players starting at T2 level, since that's the lowest tech-level generally in use.
no.
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 17:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Bundin Sirannon
An alternative:
If the guns are considered too powerful when compared to the ships, make sure everyone can fly T2 ships more easily. Evolution means new models, not radically changing an old model all of a sudden. Reduce the costs and speed up skill-training ability for the T2 ships a bit, and slowly phase out T1. At a certain point, I can imagine new players starting at T2 level, since that's the lowest tech-level generally in use.
no.
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
aeti
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:07:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bundin Sirannon In fact, this is a nerf.
All guns will be less effective at killing someone. So all guns/missiles are nerfed. This means you'll have to bring more ammo/missiles, which reduces cargohold. How do you justify the changes with respect to mass and agility? Agent kill-missions will take longer and cost more for non-laser ships, is that taken into account? They'll also become easier, since player ships don't die that quickly anymore.. There are tons of variables that need to be taken into account.
it did say npcs will stay as they are
|
aeti
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:07:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bundin Sirannon In fact, this is a nerf.
All guns will be less effective at killing someone. So all guns/missiles are nerfed. This means you'll have to bring more ammo/missiles, which reduces cargohold. How do you justify the changes with respect to mass and agility? Agent kill-missions will take longer and cost more for non-laser ships, is that taken into account? They'll also become easier, since player ships don't die that quickly anymore.. There are tons of variables that need to be taken into account.
it did say npcs will stay as they are
|
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:14:00 -
[31]
"two complaints... then don't test. okay?"
It was exactly my point, these things prevent people from testing they were asked to do.
What is your point, if you had any to begin with?
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:14:00 -
[32]
"two complaints... then don't test. okay?"
It was exactly my point, these things prevent people from testing they were asked to do.
What is your point, if you had any to begin with?
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:15:00 -
[33]
Thnak you CCP for nerffing projektiles some more
i will now mostly run out of my ammo before i get even trought apoch armor! -------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:15:00 -
[34]
Thnak you CCP for nerffing projektiles some more
i will now mostly run out of my ammo before i get even trought apoch armor! -------------------------------------------
|
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:18:00 -
[35]
Originally by: j0sephine "two complaints... then don't test. okay?"
It was exactly my point, these things prevent people from testing they were asked to do.
What is your point, if you had any to begin with?
that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods.
how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: j0sephine "two complaints... then don't test. okay?"
It was exactly my point, these things prevent people from testing they were asked to do.
What is your point, if you had any to begin with?
that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods.
how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
RollinDutchMasters
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:19:00 -
[37]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 20/12/2004 18:20:02
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: j0sephine "I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ."
There's two unfortunate drawbacks to this: #1 as stated already, the TQ mirror is quite old and so the chances for anyone who spends some reasonable amount of time on test server to still have their TQ setup is very slim. And #2, this sort of test can be done just once. When your TQ ship gets blown up, you can't really repeat the test with similar setup, which means any testing will give very random results (can't really test things reliably if the tests cannot be repeated enough times)
It's good to hear the FC might make the re-appearance, though. ^^
two complaints... then don't test. okay?
the Sisi testing is for the rest of us lemmings who think trying stuff out isn't a waste of our time.
p.s. some people own a lot of ships/mods. i for one wouldn't mind blowing a few up...
Seeking suggustions for how to test on singularity. Currently located 30 jumps from empire (and the nearest other person) in a battleship that I cannot replace if I lose it, making combat testing difficult, assuming I can find someone to test with.
The changes as suggusted now seem to be unbalanced, but theres no real way for me to check and see.
Also, I cannot travel through .5+.
Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
|
RollinDutchMasters
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:19:00 -
[38]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 20/12/2004 18:20:02
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: j0sephine "I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ."
There's two unfortunate drawbacks to this: #1 as stated already, the TQ mirror is quite old and so the chances for anyone who spends some reasonable amount of time on test server to still have their TQ setup is very slim. And #2, this sort of test can be done just once. When your TQ ship gets blown up, you can't really repeat the test with similar setup, which means any testing will give very random results (can't really test things reliably if the tests cannot be repeated enough times)
It's good to hear the FC might make the re-appearance, though. ^^
two complaints... then don't test. okay?
the Sisi testing is for the rest of us lemmings who think trying stuff out isn't a waste of our time.
p.s. some people own a lot of ships/mods. i for one wouldn't mind blowing a few up...
Seeking suggustions for how to test on singularity. Currently located 30 jumps from empire (and the nearest other person) in a battleship that I cannot replace if I lose it, making combat testing difficult, assuming I can find someone to test with.
The changes as suggusted now seem to be unbalanced, but theres no real way for me to check and see.
Also, I cannot travel through .5+.
Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:19:00 -
[39]
Aand not to mention Logging off now actualy saves your ship more -------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:19:00 -
[40]
Aand not to mention Logging off now actualy saves your ship more -------------------------------------------
|
|
KompleX
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:20:00 -
[41]
Edited by: KompleX on 20/12/2004 18:20:31
Originally by: Bundin Sirannon In fact, this is a nerf.
All guns will be less effective at killing someone. So all guns/missiles are nerfed. This means you'll have to bring more ammo/missiles, which reduces cargohold. How do you justify the changes with respect to mass and agility? Agent kill-missions will take longer and cost more for non-laser ships, is that taken into account? They'll also become easier, since player ships don't die that quickly anymore.. There are tons of variables that need to be taken into account.
An alternative:
If the guns are considered too powerful when compared to the ships, make sure everyone can fly T2 ships more easily. Evolution means new models, not radically changing an old model all of a sudden. Reduce the costs and speed up skill-training ability for the T2 ships a bit, and slowly phase out T1. At a certain point, I can imagine new players starting at T2 level, since that's the lowest tech-level generally in use.
In short: don't update T1, it doesn't make sense that the old kestrel suddenly has more hitpoints. Instead, get moving with T2/3/4/5/6... We already have a virtual Tech 1.5 with the destroyers and the like, does that not compensate enough?
No,no,no,no...
|
KompleX
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:20:00 -
[42]
Edited by: KompleX on 20/12/2004 18:20:31
Originally by: Bundin Sirannon In fact, this is a nerf.
All guns will be less effective at killing someone. So all guns/missiles are nerfed. This means you'll have to bring more ammo/missiles, which reduces cargohold. How do you justify the changes with respect to mass and agility? Agent kill-missions will take longer and cost more for non-laser ships, is that taken into account? They'll also become easier, since player ships don't die that quickly anymore.. There are tons of variables that need to be taken into account.
An alternative:
If the guns are considered too powerful when compared to the ships, make sure everyone can fly T2 ships more easily. Evolution means new models, not radically changing an old model all of a sudden. Reduce the costs and speed up skill-training ability for the T2 ships a bit, and slowly phase out T1. At a certain point, I can imagine new players starting at T2 level, since that's the lowest tech-level generally in use.
In short: don't update T1, it doesn't make sense that the old kestrel suddenly has more hitpoints. Instead, get moving with T2/3/4/5/6... We already have a virtual Tech 1.5 with the destroyers and the like, does that not compensate enough?
No,no,no,no...
|
meowcat
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:21:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Siddy Aand not to mention Logging off now actualy saves your ship more
VERY good point.
Log off timers will need to be increased significantly (they need increasing anyway tbh, but lots more now)
a week should just about do it
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
meowcat
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Siddy Aand not to mention Logging off now actualy saves your ship more
VERY good point.
Log off timers will need to be increased significantly (they need increasing anyway tbh, but lots more now)
a week should just about do it
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:42:00 -
[45]
"that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods."
Yes, if i wish to help to test the game, i have to ask other players to provide me with means to perform the tests and take extra time to jump through all involved hoops. The question remains -- how is that making the test server any more efficient?
"how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it..."
How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:42:00 -
[46]
"that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods."
Yes, if i wish to help to test the game, i have to ask other players to provide me with means to perform the tests and take extra time to jump through all involved hoops. The question remains -- how is that making the test server any more efficient?
"how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it..."
How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
|
KompleX
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:42:00 -
[47]
Edited by: KompleX on 20/12/2004 18:42:24
Originally by: Oveur
I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ.
If you are interested in further testing, you'll be pleased to know Fight Club will be reinstated on Sisi when we get some database admin love on it. However, if you are even more interested in structured testing, you might be able to get into one of the Sisi balancing teams.
Glad to hear that!
|
KompleX
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:42:00 -
[48]
Edited by: KompleX on 20/12/2004 18:42:24
Originally by: Oveur
I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ.
If you are interested in further testing, you'll be pleased to know Fight Club will be reinstated on Sisi when we get some database admin love on it. However, if you are even more interested in structured testing, you might be able to get into one of the Sisi balancing teams.
Glad to hear that!
|
Grimpak
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:46:00 -
[49]
Quote: Amarr: 100%Armor 200%Structure Caldari: 100%Shield 100%Structure Gallente: 25%Shield 75%Armor 300%Structure Minmatar: 75%Shield 25%Armor 150%Structure
...now if minmatar are suposed to shield tank, can we have more midslots in their ships plz? cuz shield tanking while having 4 or 5 med slots (tops.. and that's in BS'es) is kinda.... bad? Structure increase of the gallente is a bit err... weird Can't argue with Caldari and Amarr cuz they had the best shields and armour respectively, and now they just are better at it... Think it's better that I start training caldari and amarr BS's and scrap my gall/minnie BS skills -------------------
Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
|
Grimpak
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:46:00 -
[50]
Quote: Amarr: 100%Armor 200%Structure Caldari: 100%Shield 100%Structure Gallente: 25%Shield 75%Armor 300%Structure Minmatar: 75%Shield 25%Armor 150%Structure
...now if minmatar are suposed to shield tank, can we have more midslots in their ships plz? cuz shield tanking while having 4 or 5 med slots (tops.. and that's in BS'es) is kinda.... bad? Structure increase of the gallente is a bit err... weird Can't argue with Caldari and Amarr cuz they had the best shields and armour respectively, and now they just are better at it... Think it's better that I start training caldari and amarr BS's and scrap my gall/minnie BS skills -------------------
Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
|
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:51:00 -
[51]
its odd that Amarr and Caldari got HUGE prosentual increase of HP in the HP tissue they actualy TANK.
And minmatar and galentees were redused to halfwith Stuktire/whatever-floats-your-boat tanks
Not to mention neither of two shafted races's, minmatars or Galentees do that kind of damage to justify Caldari and Amarr increases -------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 18:51:00 -
[52]
its odd that Amarr and Caldari got HUGE prosentual increase of HP in the HP tissue they actualy TANK.
And minmatar and galentees were redused to halfwith Stuktire/whatever-floats-your-boat tanks
Not to mention neither of two shafted races's, minmatars or Galentees do that kind of damage to justify Caldari and Amarr increases -------------------------------------------
|
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:01:00 -
[53]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 20/12/2004 19:04:29 i think you guys are starting too make too many changes too freaken fast and forgeting the players who dont have ubar skills and have planed there skills months ago. these t2 weopons are the first **** off for mid range skilled players like me who have 7-8mil in mostly ship and combat skills, since its all i work for skills. i am still almost two months away from them weopons. thank good for missiles too deal with the players who have ubar t2 weopons up the ass now, but we do not. so they get too blow the **** out of us even faster now. i wont even get into the elite ships, becouse thats just a BS deal aswell for us. i mean just too use a reactor control unit 2 it took me 15 days too lvl5. total bs on that one do too the fact i didnt need lvl5 skills too use t2 pdus or t2 caps witch are way more usful in a ship. its funny too becouse the guys who would need too use a t2 rcu arnt the old farts who have all the skills but the mid range and low range players who need too fit that one more idem. so now you wona make the ships tuffer. well that should be fair i bet for the players like me who dont got the t2 weopons too punch a hole in them ships. so i guess ill have too say i dont like what they are thinking of doing too the hit points of the ships. it dont look right too me. ps, dont freak up my raven is all i care about.
|
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:01:00 -
[54]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 20/12/2004 19:04:29 i think you guys are starting too make too many changes too freaken fast and forgeting the players who dont have ubar skills and have planed there skills months ago. these t2 weopons are the first **** off for mid range skilled players like me who have 7-8mil in mostly ship and combat skills, since its all i work for skills. i am still almost two months away from them weopons. thank good for missiles too deal with the players who have ubar t2 weopons up the ass now, but we do not. so they get too blow the **** out of us even faster now. i wont even get into the elite ships, becouse thats just a BS deal aswell for us. i mean just too use a reactor control unit 2 it took me 15 days too lvl5. total bs on that one do too the fact i didnt need lvl5 skills too use t2 pdus or t2 caps witch are way more usful in a ship. its funny too becouse the guys who would need too use a t2 rcu arnt the old farts who have all the skills but the mid range and low range players who need too fit that one more idem. so now you wona make the ships tuffer. well that should be fair i bet for the players like me who dont got the t2 weopons too punch a hole in them ships. so i guess ill have too say i dont like what they are thinking of doing too the hit points of the ships. it dont look right too me. ps, dont freak up my raven is all i care about.
|
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:02:00 -
[55]
Originally by: j0sephine "that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods."
Yes, if i wish to help to test the game, i have to ask other players to provide me with means to perform the tests and take extra time to jump through all involved hoops. The question remains -- how is that making the test server any more efficient?
"how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it..."
How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
how was i being a "fanboi" ?? by giving you suggestions to help solve your problem ?? that makes me a fanboy?
so you wanted to whine but not get solutions to the problem? what, you just wanted someone to listen to you? my ex-girlfriend used to do that to me all the time. she'd moan and complain about something and after listening i'd offer my opinions. she'd just cry more and say, "i just wanted someone to listen to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! waaah!"
okay. well, have fun with your problem then. i choose to do something about it instead of just whining.
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:02:00 -
[56]
Originally by: j0sephine "that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods."
Yes, if i wish to help to test the game, i have to ask other players to provide me with means to perform the tests and take extra time to jump through all involved hoops. The question remains -- how is that making the test server any more efficient?
"how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it..."
How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
how was i being a "fanboi" ?? by giving you suggestions to help solve your problem ?? that makes me a fanboy?
so you wanted to whine but not get solutions to the problem? what, you just wanted someone to listen to you? my ex-girlfriend used to do that to me all the time. she'd moan and complain about something and after listening i'd offer my opinions. she'd just cry more and say, "i just wanted someone to listen to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! waaah!"
okay. well, have fun with your problem then. i choose to do something about it instead of just whining.
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
pardux
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:11:00 -
[57]
i wish i had picked amarr\caldari when i whas making a char Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
pardux
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:11:00 -
[58]
i wish i had picked amarr\caldari when i whas making a char Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Reebo77
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:13:00 -
[59]
This could make it a lot more dangerous to fly pure damage ships like gankageddon and blasterthron. The enemy will hve more time to punish the gank/blaster before they are dead, which with no tanking could be bad news.
|
Reebo77
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:13:00 -
[60]
This could make it a lot more dangerous to fly pure damage ships like gankageddon and blasterthron. The enemy will hve more time to punish the gank/blaster before they are dead, which with no tanking could be bad news.
|
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:15:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Reebo77 This could make it a lot more dangerous to fly pure damage ships like gankageddon and blasterthron. The enemy will hve more time to punish the gank/blaster before they are dead, which with no tanking could be bad news.
and not to mention that Gangeddon and Blaster tron got serios Cap problems to start with .... -------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:15:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Reebo77 This could make it a lot more dangerous to fly pure damage ships like gankageddon and blasterthron. The enemy will hve more time to punish the gank/blaster before they are dead, which with no tanking could be bad news.
and not to mention that Gangeddon and Blaster tron got serios Cap problems to start with .... -------------------------------------------
|
Reebo77
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:20:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Reebo77 on 20/12/2004 19:20:16
Originally by: Siddy
Originally by: Reebo77 This could make it a lot more dangerous to fly pure damage ships like gankageddon and blasterthron. The enemy will hve more time to punish the gank/blaster before they are dead, which with no tanking could be bad news.
and not to mention that Gangeddon and Blaster tron got serios Cap problems to start with ....
Yeah that as well.
CCP please dont make my gankageddon poo to fight with
|
Reebo77
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:20:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Reebo77 on 20/12/2004 19:20:16
Originally by: Siddy
Originally by: Reebo77 This could make it a lot more dangerous to fly pure damage ships like gankageddon and blasterthron. The enemy will hve more time to punish the gank/blaster before they are dead, which with no tanking could be bad news.
and not to mention that Gangeddon and Blaster tron got serios Cap problems to start with ....
Yeah that as well.
CCP please dont make my gankageddon poo to fight with
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:22:00 -
[65]
on the other hand, im shure Pottsey will be happy to test out her new Scorpion Passive shield tank...
i recon she can get 300shield/sec increase in recharge when shields hit 30% -------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:22:00 -
[66]
on the other hand, im shure Pottsey will be happy to test out her new Scorpion Passive shield tank...
i recon she can get 300shield/sec increase in recharge when shields hit 30% -------------------------------------------
|
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:29:00 -
[67]
I have to agree with j0sephine here, the sisi environment is not up to scratch for testing.
As soon as I read the blog, I updated my sisi build, and jumped on, only to find I was still where I left myself pre-exodus launch. By which I mean, many jumps away from my main base in a poorly fitted cruiser, which was the best I could get. also, on the current sisi database, all my BS have been annihilated, due to testing lvl 4 kill missions on there. I have nothing to test, and no means to buy, or build anything.
Looking forward to the return of the FCC.
My comments regarding the blog are in the related thread on the ships/modules forum. .
|
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:29:00 -
[68]
I have to agree with j0sephine here, the sisi environment is not up to scratch for testing.
As soon as I read the blog, I updated my sisi build, and jumped on, only to find I was still where I left myself pre-exodus launch. By which I mean, many jumps away from my main base in a poorly fitted cruiser, which was the best I could get. also, on the current sisi database, all my BS have been annihilated, due to testing lvl 4 kill missions on there. I have nothing to test, and no means to buy, or build anything.
Looking forward to the return of the FCC.
My comments regarding the blog are in the related thread on the ships/modules forum. .
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:37:00 -
[69]
"how was i being a "fanboi" ?? by giving you suggestions to help solve your problem ?? that makes me a fanboy?"
No, by telling me to 'not test then because the test server is for the rest of us lemmings' which was your first reply.
(if that p.s. in it was supposed to be suggestion, then sorry. but it's worded vaguely enough to look rather like you're bragging "ohh look, *i* have enough ships to blow few of them, *i* can test" ... which, i hope you agree, isn't very helpful if read this way ^^
"okay. well, have fun with your problem then. i choose to do something about it instead of just whining."
I choose to do something about it -- that is, to signal the problem to the only people who can really fix it, i.e. the ones in charge of the test server.
If telling there's a problem and explaining why it is a problem is whining to you, then so be it... I just think it's more likely to get the proverbial lightbulb fixed if you actually tell the landlord that it needs fixing... rather than if you just sit quietly in dark corner, playing with piece of flint and telling yourself the few sparks you get from it are good substitute...
(but enough of it? we really went off tangent here and this has nothing to do with the subject of the thread anymore :/
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:37:00 -
[70]
"how was i being a "fanboi" ?? by giving you suggestions to help solve your problem ?? that makes me a fanboy?"
No, by telling me to 'not test then because the test server is for the rest of us lemmings' which was your first reply.
(if that p.s. in it was supposed to be suggestion, then sorry. but it's worded vaguely enough to look rather like you're bragging "ohh look, *i* have enough ships to blow few of them, *i* can test" ... which, i hope you agree, isn't very helpful if read this way ^^
"okay. well, have fun with your problem then. i choose to do something about it instead of just whining."
I choose to do something about it -- that is, to signal the problem to the only people who can really fix it, i.e. the ones in charge of the test server.
If telling there's a problem and explaining why it is a problem is whining to you, then so be it... I just think it's more likely to get the proverbial lightbulb fixed if you actually tell the landlord that it needs fixing... rather than if you just sit quietly in dark corner, playing with piece of flint and telling yourself the few sparks you get from it are good substitute...
(but enough of it? we really went off tangent here and this has nothing to do with the subject of the thread anymore :/
|
|
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:41:00 -
[71]
ôWhatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity.ö 81.9 hit points per second on test server with my passive shield setup. Total shields 10718 hitpoints with a Dominix.
On main server with same setup I am on 73.5 hitpoints per second and 9625 hitpoints
The change hardly seems worth it an extra 1093 shield hitpoints extra is not going to extend combat more then 10 or 30 seconds. Unless you also change large shield extenders.
If the aim is to boost the length of combat Gallente need a bigger shield boost then 50%.
For a pure passive tanking I got 112 hitpoints a second on the test server. On the main server I get 102 hitpoints per second.
So 10 points extra damage per second. How much are you planing on extending combat by? Are the large shield extenders going to be changed on the test server?
"Whatever it is,ö on the other hand, im shure Pottsey will be happy to test out her new Scorpion Passive shield tank... i recon she can get 300shield/sec increase in recharge when shields hit 30% ö give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity." Not tested yet as I donÆt have the skills, Gallente ships only for me. Might try and train them up on Singularity if thatÆs possible.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:41:00 -
[72]
ôWhatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity.ö 81.9 hit points per second on test server with my passive shield setup. Total shields 10718 hitpoints with a Dominix.
On main server with same setup I am on 73.5 hitpoints per second and 9625 hitpoints
The change hardly seems worth it an extra 1093 shield hitpoints extra is not going to extend combat more then 10 or 30 seconds. Unless you also change large shield extenders.
If the aim is to boost the length of combat Gallente need a bigger shield boost then 50%.
For a pure passive tanking I got 112 hitpoints a second on the test server. On the main server I get 102 hitpoints per second.
So 10 points extra damage per second. How much are you planing on extending combat by? Are the large shield extenders going to be changed on the test server?
"Whatever it is,ö on the other hand, im shure Pottsey will be happy to test out her new Scorpion Passive shield tank... i recon she can get 300shield/sec increase in recharge when shields hit 30% ö give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity." Not tested yet as I donÆt have the skills, Gallente ships only for me. Might try and train them up on Singularity if thatÆs possible.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
TauTut
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:53:00 -
[73]
greater hitpoints = easier to log when under attack ??? -TT
Background
|
TauTut
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 19:53:00 -
[74]
greater hitpoints = easier to log when under attack ??? -TT
Background
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:09:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Pottsey ôWhatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity.ö 81.9 hit points per second on test server with my passive shield setup. Total shields 10718 hitpoints with a Dominix.
On main server with same setup I am on 73.5 hitpoints per second and 9625 hitpoints
The change hardly seems worth it an extra 1093 shield hitpoints extra is not going to extend combat more then 10 or 30 seconds. Unless you also change large shield extenders.
Try scorp - it r0x0r at shield -------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:09:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Pottsey ôWhatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity.ö 81.9 hit points per second on test server with my passive shield setup. Total shields 10718 hitpoints with a Dominix.
On main server with same setup I am on 73.5 hitpoints per second and 9625 hitpoints
The change hardly seems worth it an extra 1093 shield hitpoints extra is not going to extend combat more then 10 or 30 seconds. Unless you also change large shield extenders.
Try scorp - it r0x0r at shield -------------------------------------------
|
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:15:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: j0sephine "Whatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity."
Kieron, with all due respect... please don't ask for impossible.
There is no ships to test the hp changes with on Singularity, because the NPC market ends on tier.1 cruisers, and no one is insane enough to actually run mass-production on test server. So the best ships players can test stuff with are the basic cruisers, and whatever personal ships they have left on what, month+ old mirror?
Please, put back the FCC on test server, or give all players the /spawn command, or make a macro that seeds the market after every restart, or shut the bloody server down if no one can be arsed with any of these... whatever, just don't ask for what can't be done, because it comes through like mockery. Especially when the test in question will pretty much require blowing up large amounts of ships to 'test' this new change --;;
I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ.
If you are interested in further testing, you'll be pleased to know Fight Club will be reinstated on Sisi when we get some database admin love on it. However, if you are even more interested in structured testing, you might be able to get into one of the Sisi balancing teams.
what is the procedure for getting into a testing team? I've been trying for a while, asking various devs/bh on irc, and even having some friends on those teams refer to me, but so far I seem to get ignored.
I don't like the pointless duels of fcc, where no one actually cares about realistic tests, but I don't like sitting around on sisi with no mods available for my ships. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:15:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: j0sephine "Whatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity."
Kieron, with all due respect... please don't ask for impossible.
There is no ships to test the hp changes with on Singularity, because the NPC market ends on tier.1 cruisers, and no one is insane enough to actually run mass-production on test server. So the best ships players can test stuff with are the basic cruisers, and whatever personal ships they have left on what, month+ old mirror?
Please, put back the FCC on test server, or give all players the /spawn command, or make a macro that seeds the market after every restart, or shut the bloody server down if no one can be arsed with any of these... whatever, just don't ask for what can't be done, because it comes through like mockery. Especially when the test in question will pretty much require blowing up large amounts of ships to 'test' this new change --;;
I would more like you to go there and test it on your current TQ loadout which should already be there, since it is a mirror of TQ.
If you are interested in further testing, you'll be pleased to know Fight Club will be reinstated on Sisi when we get some database admin love on it. However, if you are even more interested in structured testing, you might be able to get into one of the Sisi balancing teams.
what is the procedure for getting into a testing team? I've been trying for a while, asking various devs/bh on irc, and even having some friends on those teams refer to me, but so far I seem to get ignored.
I don't like the pointless duels of fcc, where no one actually cares about realistic tests, but I don't like sitting around on sisi with no mods available for my ships. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:21:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Pottsey on 20/12/2004 20:31:54 Edited by: Pottsey on 20/12/2004 20:22:03 öThat would have put them in about 5th place from a size point of view. Try scorp - it r0x0r at shieldö
True but due to the low slots the scorp is worse at passive shield tanking then a Dominix. Though that might change with the new 120% boost to caldari. Gallente have always been the best passive shield tankers I hope they donÆt swap it around so caldari suddenly become the best. Right now the scorp is not that far behind the Dominix so the 120% should put the scorp ahead.
Anyone with a scorp tested the new 120% boost? How many shield points do you get with the new boost and on the main server? DonÆt have the skills to test my self.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:21:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Pottsey on 20/12/2004 20:31:54 Edited by: Pottsey on 20/12/2004 20:22:03 öThat would have put them in about 5th place from a size point of view. Try scorp - it r0x0r at shieldö
True but due to the low slots the scorp is worse at passive shield tanking then a Dominix. Though that might change with the new 120% boost to caldari. Gallente have always been the best passive shield tankers I hope they donÆt swap it around so caldari suddenly become the best. Right now the scorp is not that far behind the Dominix so the 120% should put the scorp ahead.
Anyone with a scorp tested the new 120% boost? How many shield points do you get with the new boost and on the main server? DonÆt have the skills to test my self.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:24:00 -
[81]
"Anyone with a scorp tested the new 120% boost? Hopw many shield points do you get with the new boost and on the main server? DonÆt have the skills to test my self."
I tried to, but the access to shield recharge modules in Nonni on test is rather poor. :/
For what's worth, the Scorpion with max skills, tech.1 power diagnostic systems in low slots and one large tech.1 shield extender clocks at 17.something k of shield... =)
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:24:00 -
[82]
"Anyone with a scorp tested the new 120% boost? Hopw many shield points do you get with the new boost and on the main server? DonÆt have the skills to test my self."
I tried to, but the access to shield recharge modules in Nonni on test is rather poor. :/
For what's worth, the Scorpion with max skills, tech.1 power diagnostic systems in low slots and one large tech.1 shield extender clocks at 17.something k of shield... =)
|
Eldar Curunirr
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:26:00 -
[83]
Amarr: 100%Armor 200%Structure Caldari: 100%Shield 100%Structure
So, Not only do amarr get double the structure of caldari, they also get just as much armor as caldari do shield... And base with no mods armor is better then shield.. so hm... where'd I leave my amaarr skill books....
Eldar (Still waiting for the engineering skills to give me base shield resistances boost)
|
Eldar Curunirr
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:26:00 -
[84]
Amarr: 100%Armor 200%Structure Caldari: 100%Shield 100%Structure
So, Not only do amarr get double the structure of caldari, they also get just as much armor as caldari do shield... And base with no mods armor is better then shield.. so hm... where'd I leave my amaarr skill books....
Eldar (Still waiting for the engineering skills to give me base shield resistances boost)
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:35:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 20/12/2004 20:31:54 Edited by: Pottsey on 20/12/2004 20:22:03 öThat would have put them in about 5th place from a size point of view. Try scorp - it r0x0r at shieldö
True but due to the low slots the scorp is worse at passive shield tanking then a Dominix. Though that might change with the new 120% boost to caldari. Gallente have always been the best passive shield tankers I hope they donÆt swap it around so caldari suddenly become the best. Right now the scorp is not that far behind the Dominix so the 120% should put the scorp ahead.
Anyone with a scorp tested the new 120% boost? How many shield points do you get with the new boost and on the main server? DonÆt have the skills to test my self.
scorp got 9000 Shields by default
adding 5%/skill bonus you can get it up to 12000 without any modules
after that you add 4 Hardeners and 4 Exstendrs and 4 Chargers or whatever -------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 20:35:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 20/12/2004 20:31:54 Edited by: Pottsey on 20/12/2004 20:22:03 öThat would have put them in about 5th place from a size point of view. Try scorp - it r0x0r at shieldö
True but due to the low slots the scorp is worse at passive shield tanking then a Dominix. Though that might change with the new 120% boost to caldari. Gallente have always been the best passive shield tankers I hope they donÆt swap it around so caldari suddenly become the best. Right now the scorp is not that far behind the Dominix so the 120% should put the scorp ahead.
Anyone with a scorp tested the new 120% boost? How many shield points do you get with the new boost and on the main server? DonÆt have the skills to test my self.
scorp got 9000 Shields by default
adding 5%/skill bonus you can get it up to 12000 without any modules
after that you add 4 Hardeners and 4 Exstendrs and 4 Chargers or whatever -------------------------------------------
|
Erty
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 21:54:00 -
[87]
This is an awesome change with the proper balancing, however the numbers are WAY off. More like: Amarr 100% armor, 100% structure Caldari 100% shield, 100% structure Gallente 50% shield, 50% armor, 100% structure Minmatar 50% shield, 50% armor, 100% structure
Or something like that. Why does gallente get 300% structure and caldari 100% when they both get a combined 100% shield and/or armor?
This is my signature. |
Erty
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 21:54:00 -
[88]
This is an awesome change with the proper balancing, however the numbers are WAY off. More like: Amarr 100% armor, 100% structure Caldari 100% shield, 100% structure Gallente 50% shield, 50% armor, 100% structure Minmatar 50% shield, 50% armor, 100% structure
Or something like that. Why does gallente get 300% structure and caldari 100% when they both get a combined 100% shield and/or armor?
This is my signature. |
Wild Rho
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 22:05:00 -
[89]
Has anyone addressed the issues of logging off to save your ship. While these changes may very well be an improvement it may also encourage ships to log out of battle when it looks like they are about to loose since it is going to be hard enough to kill a tanked bs with a group of other bs in 2mins let alone small task force type groups.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Wild Rho
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 22:05:00 -
[90]
Has anyone addressed the issues of logging off to save your ship. While these changes may very well be an improvement it may also encourage ships to log out of battle when it looks like they are about to loose since it is going to be hard enough to kill a tanked bs with a group of other bs in 2mins let alone small task force type groups.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
|
Shayla Sh'inlux
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 22:14:00 -
[91]
So you're actually considering doubling the effective hitpoints of ships and while you're at it, give Amarr and Caldari battleships a *huge* boost? Good job shafting the already screwed Minmatar and Gallente even more.
It's also not true most 1v1 battles last on outcapping. An Apoc can run his dual large repair setup indefinately. Only way to kill him is to break his tank, which is hard enough already and now he has twice the time to kill you. Maller and Prophecy are already tough enough as it is, not even mentioning the Assault ships.
Amarr for t3h win I suppose?
There is, in fact, nothing wrong with ship hitpoints, except that perhaps cruisers could use a slight boost to survive a few more missiles. Battleships that are well setup are hard to kill and IMO the damage vs hitpoints balance is quite good.
Making fights last longer serves no purpose except making agent missions easier than they already are if you know what you're doing.
When I read ships would get an overall increase in hitpoints, I was thinking 10-15% on bs, maybe 30% for cruisers and 20-25% on frigs. Not some strange race-universal 300%.
I'm giving a big no to the changes as proposed.
------------------------------------------------------- "Do you really think that's air you're breathing?" |
Shayla Sh'inlux
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 22:14:00 -
[92]
So you're actually considering doubling the effective hitpoints of ships and while you're at it, give Amarr and Caldari battleships a *huge* boost? Good job shafting the already screwed Minmatar and Gallente even more.
It's also not true most 1v1 battles last on outcapping. An Apoc can run his dual large repair setup indefinately. Only way to kill him is to break his tank, which is hard enough already and now he has twice the time to kill you. Maller and Prophecy are already tough enough as it is, not even mentioning the Assault ships.
Amarr for t3h win I suppose?
There is, in fact, nothing wrong with ship hitpoints, except that perhaps cruisers could use a slight boost to survive a few more missiles. Battleships that are well setup are hard to kill and IMO the damage vs hitpoints balance is quite good.
Making fights last longer serves no purpose except making agent missions easier than they already are if you know what you're doing.
When I read ships would get an overall increase in hitpoints, I was thinking 10-15% on bs, maybe 30% for cruisers and 20-25% on frigs. Not some strange race-universal 300%.
I'm giving a big no to the changes as proposed.
------------------------------------------------------- "Do you really think that's air you're breathing?" |
Lifewire
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 23:10:00 -
[93]
I like the idea to make combats "slower". It also improves frigates - but it¦s not a un-nerf!!! This is a 50% weapon nerf!!! In the end it will be less shipkills, but maybe good for PvP since a fleetbattle in a cruiser can be very short if a Gankageddon aims at your poor cruiser.
What i definitivly don¦t like: Amarr are already uber - why give them more than all other races again? I know CCP wants to see less Caldary ships, but the better way would be to fix missiles instead of boosting Amarr again. It¦s ubelievable how this race gets favorised. Caldarys wont have problems with this, because ECM is simply the key to succesfull PvP, but take a look at the Minmatar or Galente - these races are really poor equipped. The people favorise Caldary and Amarr ships. 2 reasons: Caldary can use ECM and Amarr are simple the most brutal gunships in this game. The "advantadge" of the Minmatar, the speed, doesnt help them much when they still get hit by guns and missiles like crazy. The "advantadge of the Galente, the drones, don¦t help much too, since the drones will never reach an armageddon 20 km (most used battle distance) away in time. This game is ruled by FIREPOWER and EW. So it¦s ruled by Amarr and Caldarys. Some specialist may be able to still do good in Galente and Minmatar ships - but hey, compared to Caldary and Amarr these ships are no choice for usage. i Would propose to help these two races. But i am fine with everything, since i can fly mostly any ship
I wonder why CCP doesnt try to fix it by using the "resistances"? I would give smaller ships higher resistances like it was done with assault ships. This tweaking can be done slowly: 5% here, 5% there until the things are balanced. Doubling hitpoints are a risk to get crazy tank-fittings. We will have ships that are unkillable 2 or 3 vs 1 wich will cause more blobbing, more ganking. The game already forces to blob and gank so much - CCP should think about ways to reduce blobbing and ganking because these things cause boredome. I cannot imagine it can be funny to gank and blob for ever. We need more PvP content -> refineable shipwrecks
|
Lifewire
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 23:10:00 -
[94]
I like the idea to make combats "slower". It also improves frigates - but it¦s not a un-nerf!!! This is a 50% weapon nerf!!! In the end it will be less shipkills, but maybe good for PvP since a fleetbattle in a cruiser can be very short if a Gankageddon aims at your poor cruiser.
What i definitivly don¦t like: Amarr are already uber - why give them more than all other races again? I know CCP wants to see less Caldary ships, but the better way would be to fix missiles instead of boosting Amarr again. It¦s ubelievable how this race gets favorised. Caldarys wont have problems with this, because ECM is simply the key to succesfull PvP, but take a look at the Minmatar or Galente - these races are really poor equipped. The people favorise Caldary and Amarr ships. 2 reasons: Caldary can use ECM and Amarr are simple the most brutal gunships in this game. The "advantadge" of the Minmatar, the speed, doesnt help them much when they still get hit by guns and missiles like crazy. The "advantadge of the Galente, the drones, don¦t help much too, since the drones will never reach an armageddon 20 km (most used battle distance) away in time. This game is ruled by FIREPOWER and EW. So it¦s ruled by Amarr and Caldarys. Some specialist may be able to still do good in Galente and Minmatar ships - but hey, compared to Caldary and Amarr these ships are no choice for usage. i Would propose to help these two races. But i am fine with everything, since i can fly mostly any ship
I wonder why CCP doesnt try to fix it by using the "resistances"? I would give smaller ships higher resistances like it was done with assault ships. This tweaking can be done slowly: 5% here, 5% there until the things are balanced. Doubling hitpoints are a risk to get crazy tank-fittings. We will have ships that are unkillable 2 or 3 vs 1 wich will cause more blobbing, more ganking. The game already forces to blob and gank so much - CCP should think about ways to reduce blobbing and ganking because these things cause boredome. I cannot imagine it can be funny to gank and blob for ever. We need more PvP content -> refineable shipwrecks
|
Chade Malloy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 23:35:00 -
[95]
Well, that would be the kill-switch for using drones against BS...
In general, these changes will only lead to more predictable setups, caldari will *only" shieldtank, and Amarr *only* Armortank. Gallente will go for armor too, since the 25% shield boost istn much of a benefit for ships which have more lowslots. The poor Minmatar sobs can¦t neither armortank as well as other races (since they have few lowlosts and get only 25% boost) nor shieldtank as good as the caldaris...thats WAY off balance. Why not give all their ships a speed boost of 100% when you are at throwing large numbers around like mad?
Patience wins. |
Chade Malloy
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 23:35:00 -
[96]
Well, that would be the kill-switch for using drones against BS...
In general, these changes will only lead to more predictable setups, caldari will *only" shieldtank, and Amarr *only* Armortank. Gallente will go for armor too, since the 25% shield boost istn much of a benefit for ships which have more lowslots. The poor Minmatar sobs can¦t neither armortank as well as other races (since they have few lowlosts and get only 25% boost) nor shieldtank as good as the caldaris...thats WAY off balance. Why not give all their ships a speed boost of 100% when you are at throwing large numbers around like mad?
Patience wins. |
Bohr
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 23:42:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Bohr on 20/12/2004 23:48:49
Originally by: Maya Rkell Um. UM.
So, I shouldn't be armour tanking Minmatar ships? GAH.
Sorry, I think these changes are bad.
I feel another strike of hull tanking coming my way!
Edit: Yay for my Tempest
|
Bohr
|
Posted - 2004.12.20 23:42:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Bohr on 20/12/2004 23:48:49
Originally by: Maya Rkell Um. UM.
So, I shouldn't be armour tanking Minmatar ships? GAH.
Sorry, I think these changes are bad.
I feel another strike of hull tanking coming my way!
Edit: Yay for my Tempest
|
mafish
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 00:25:00 -
[99]
yea if this is going to come into play you really do need to look into the logging tactic thats going around alot now
|
mafish
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 00:25:00 -
[100]
yea if this is going to come into play you really do need to look into the logging tactic thats going around alot now
|
|
Terle
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 02:51:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Terle on 21/12/2004 02:59:37
Originally by: j0sephine "Whatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity."
Kieron, with all due respect... please don't ask for impossible.
There is no ships to test the hp changes with on Singularity, because the NPC market ends on tier.1 cruisers, and no one is insane enough to actually run mass-production on test server. So the best ships players can test stuff with are the basic cruisers, and whatever personal ships they have left on what, month+ old mirror?
Please, put back the FCC on test server, or give all players the /spawn command, or make a macro that seeds the market after every restart, or shut the bloody server down if no one can be arsed with any of these... whatever, just don't ask for what can't be done, because it comes through like mockery. Especially when the test in question will pretty much require blowing up large amounts of ships to 'test' this new change --;;
Thanks for informing me that there is no FCC on the test server. I was crazy enough to use the offical eve FAQ for my info and couldn't figure out what i was doing wrong hehe. To quote the FAQ:
14.10 How can I get extra stuff to help me test?
There is a corporation available to all Chaos players called Fight Club Co (FCC). The offices are located in PF-346, Planet 1. (You cannot warp directly to the station, but must warp to the planet instead.) Joining FCC will give you access to all of the items on the live server as well as any items that are being tested on Chaos before they are introduced on Tranquility.
edit: Just read Oveur's comments concerning this. Regardless, the FAQ really needs to be updated for poor noobs like me.(Imagine my confusion when I found there was no chaos server hehe )
|
Terle
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 02:51:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Terle on 21/12/2004 02:59:37
Originally by: j0sephine "Whatever it is, give it a read and make sure you test the ship hp changes on Singularity."
Kieron, with all due respect... please don't ask for impossible.
There is no ships to test the hp changes with on Singularity, because the NPC market ends on tier.1 cruisers, and no one is insane enough to actually run mass-production on test server. So the best ships players can test stuff with are the basic cruisers, and whatever personal ships they have left on what, month+ old mirror?
Please, put back the FCC on test server, or give all players the /spawn command, or make a macro that seeds the market after every restart, or shut the bloody server down if no one can be arsed with any of these... whatever, just don't ask for what can't be done, because it comes through like mockery. Especially when the test in question will pretty much require blowing up large amounts of ships to 'test' this new change --;;
Thanks for informing me that there is no FCC on the test server. I was crazy enough to use the offical eve FAQ for my info and couldn't figure out what i was doing wrong hehe. To quote the FAQ:
14.10 How can I get extra stuff to help me test?
There is a corporation available to all Chaos players called Fight Club Co (FCC). The offices are located in PF-346, Planet 1. (You cannot warp directly to the station, but must warp to the planet instead.) Joining FCC will give you access to all of the items on the live server as well as any items that are being tested on Chaos before they are introduced on Tranquility.
edit: Just read Oveur's comments concerning this. Regardless, the FAQ really needs to be updated for poor noobs like me.(Imagine my confusion when I found there was no chaos server hehe )
|
Terle
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 03:21:00 -
[103]
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: j0sephine "that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods."
Yes, if i wish to help to test the game, i have to ask other players to provide me with means to perform the tests and take extra time to jump through all involved hoops. The question remains -- how is that making the test server any more efficient?
"how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it..."
How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
how was i being a "fanboi" ?? by giving you suggestions to help solve your problem ?? that makes me a fanboy?
so you wanted to whine but not get solutions to the problem? what, you just wanted someone to listen to you? my ex-girlfriend used to do that to me all the time. she'd moan and complain about something and after listening i'd offer my opinions. she'd just cry more and say, "i just wanted someone to listen to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! waaah!"
okay. well, have fun with your problem then. i choose to do something about it instead of just whining.
You seem to be negating yourself with your basic premise, the "community" on the test server. Last time I logged onto the test server there were exactly 9 people on. It seems the only one "whining" here is you. Whining meaning complaining with no apparent reason, a concept you apparently do not get Flummox.
Of course, I highly doubt you'll get the meaning of this post either, it doesn't say what you want it too hehe.
BTW, I think the fanboi turnaround suited Flummox perfectly Josephine
|
Terle
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 03:21:00 -
[104]
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: j0sephine "that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods."
Yes, if i wish to help to test the game, i have to ask other players to provide me with means to perform the tests and take extra time to jump through all involved hoops. The question remains -- how is that making the test server any more efficient?
"how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it..."
How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
how was i being a "fanboi" ?? by giving you suggestions to help solve your problem ?? that makes me a fanboy?
so you wanted to whine but not get solutions to the problem? what, you just wanted someone to listen to you? my ex-girlfriend used to do that to me all the time. she'd moan and complain about something and after listening i'd offer my opinions. she'd just cry more and say, "i just wanted someone to listen to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! waaah!"
okay. well, have fun with your problem then. i choose to do something about it instead of just whining.
You seem to be negating yourself with your basic premise, the "community" on the test server. Last time I logged onto the test server there were exactly 9 people on. It seems the only one "whining" here is you. Whining meaning complaining with no apparent reason, a concept you apparently do not get Flummox.
Of course, I highly doubt you'll get the meaning of this post either, it doesn't say what you want it too hehe.
BTW, I think the fanboi turnaround suited Flummox perfectly Josephine
|
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 04:25:00 -
[105]
like i said befor and somone has too stand up for the lesser skilled players. if they cant get their hands on the t2 weopons in reasonable time, they are gona be sitting ducks up against them tuffer ships with t2 firepower. this is not gona be a good deal for them in anyway trying too take on these ships with t1 firepower.
|
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 04:25:00 -
[106]
like i said befor and somone has too stand up for the lesser skilled players. if they cant get their hands on the t2 weopons in reasonable time, they are gona be sitting ducks up against them tuffer ships with t2 firepower. this is not gona be a good deal for them in anyway trying too take on these ships with t1 firepower.
|
Helmuth Halbstein
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 08:40:00 -
[107]
Im sorry but this is more *** that freddie mercury.
"Helmuth Halbstein Caldari Gorilla" Cogito Ergo Zoom |
Helmuth Halbstein
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 08:40:00 -
[108]
Im sorry but this is more *** that freddie mercury.
"Helmuth Halbstein Caldari Gorilla" Cogito Ergo Zoom |
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 10:24:00 -
[109]
All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
If combat last longer then Amarr ships are going to run out of cap and die.
I can understand however why this change has been brought in as it will make gankgeddon setups obsolete in small engagements (though still handy in fleet engagements) as gankers will run out of cap before their enemy actually dies.
This change in general seem to suit projectile users who have no offensive cap requirements and can therefore take their time killing things.
But as I haven't tested this yet maybe I am all wrong...
Btw Devs listen to j0sephine - she knows her stuff when it comes to testing
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 10:24:00 -
[110]
All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
If combat last longer then Amarr ships are going to run out of cap and die.
I can understand however why this change has been brought in as it will make gankgeddon setups obsolete in small engagements (though still handy in fleet engagements) as gankers will run out of cap before their enemy actually dies.
This change in general seem to suit projectile users who have no offensive cap requirements and can therefore take their time killing things.
But as I haven't tested this yet maybe I am all wrong...
Btw Devs listen to j0sephine - she knows her stuff when it comes to testing
|
|
KompleX
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 10:45:00 -
[111]
I'm not against this change, and not for it either. I don't really see why it is needed?
|
KompleX
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 10:45:00 -
[112]
I'm not against this change, and not for it either. I don't really see why it is needed?
|
KompleX
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 10:47:00 -
[113]
Edited by: KompleX on 21/12/2004 10:48:28
Originally by: Hardin All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
If combat last longer then Amarr ships are going to run out of cap and die.
I can understand however why this change has been brought in as it will make gankgeddon setups obsolete in small engagements (though still handy in fleet engagements) as gankers will run out of cap before their enemy actually dies.
This change in general seem to suit projectile users who have no offensive cap requirements and can therefore take their time killing things.
But as I haven't tested this yet maybe I am all wrong...
Btw Devs listen to j0sephine - she knows her stuff when it comes to testing
Not tr00! I can keep my apoc running 8x megapulses, 2x large reppers and 3/4 hardeneres going forever. And I do not have maxed skills.
Edit: and by this I am in no way saying that ammar is overpowered.
|
KompleX
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 10:47:00 -
[114]
Edited by: KompleX on 21/12/2004 10:48:28
Originally by: Hardin All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
If combat last longer then Amarr ships are going to run out of cap and die.
I can understand however why this change has been brought in as it will make gankgeddon setups obsolete in small engagements (though still handy in fleet engagements) as gankers will run out of cap before their enemy actually dies.
This change in general seem to suit projectile users who have no offensive cap requirements and can therefore take their time killing things.
But as I haven't tested this yet maybe I am all wrong...
Btw Devs listen to j0sephine - she knows her stuff when it comes to testing
Not tr00! I can keep my apoc running 8x megapulses, 2x large reppers and 3/4 hardeneres going forever. And I do not have maxed skills.
Edit: and by this I am in no way saying that ammar is overpowered.
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 10:54:00 -
[115]
As I said you must have your spare mid slots and low slots filled with cap relays/rechargers then...
I have an 18mill SP character completely trained purely for Amarr ship/laser use (Amarr BS V, Large Pulse Laser Spec V for example) and two LARGE reppers with hardeners on autorepeat while firing guns will drain your cap much faster than it regrows.
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 10:54:00 -
[116]
As I said you must have your spare mid slots and low slots filled with cap relays/rechargers then...
I have an 18mill SP character completely trained purely for Amarr ship/laser use (Amarr BS V, Large Pulse Laser Spec V for example) and two LARGE reppers with hardeners on autorepeat while firing guns will drain your cap much faster than it regrows.
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 11:08:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 21/12/2004 11:09:41 Ahh, but forgive me if im wrong here, but dont most of u shave to choose between high damage, low armour and low damage high armour? not both?
Also, if you could run all that without draining cap Hardin, id be a very scared Matari, as those shiny ships are a bugger as it is :)
Please remember that the greatest ship hull design in EVE is the Rifter hull. Pride of the Minmatar fleet, envy of all other nations. -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 11:08:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 21/12/2004 11:09:41 Ahh, but forgive me if im wrong here, but dont most of u shave to choose between high damage, low armour and low damage high armour? not both?
Also, if you could run all that without draining cap Hardin, id be a very scared Matari, as those shiny ships are a bugger as it is :)
Please remember that the greatest ship hull design in EVE is the Rifter hull. Pride of the Minmatar fleet, envy of all other nations. -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Sforza
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 11:17:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Hardin All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
Respectfully Hardin.. this already happens. It just doesnt happen to you as yet.
It happens to Megathron pilots in blasterrigs, who dont have the grid to fit two large reps as you do, who have to use a cap injector to even make killing another battleship feasable, and cannot fit a full rack of even the MIDDLE ranking blaster without using RCU's / PDU's. We do not have the choice, as you currently do, to sacrifice some low slots/midslots to increase cap to make it cap stable, since it simply cannot be done.
I know everyone's going to fight their own corners on this issue.. but I see things like "300% structure boost for Gallente!" and I simply want to give up either on my racial ships, or the game entirely.
Sorry.. just had to vent
Sforza
CEO Vronsky Brothers and Sons
Council Member Ushra'Khan |
Sforza
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 11:17:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Hardin All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
Respectfully Hardin.. this already happens. It just doesnt happen to you as yet.
It happens to Megathron pilots in blasterrigs, who dont have the grid to fit two large reps as you do, who have to use a cap injector to even make killing another battleship feasable, and cannot fit a full rack of even the MIDDLE ranking blaster without using RCU's / PDU's. We do not have the choice, as you currently do, to sacrifice some low slots/midslots to increase cap to make it cap stable, since it simply cannot be done.
I know everyone's going to fight their own corners on this issue.. but I see things like "300% structure boost for Gallente!" and I simply want to give up either on my racial ships, or the game entirely.
Sorry.. just had to vent
Sforza
CEO Vronsky Brothers and Sons
Council Member Ushra'Khan |
|
Gaius Kador
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 11:25:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino Ahh, but forgive me if im wrong here, but dont most of u shave to choose between high damage, low armour and low damage high armour? not both?
One or the other, yes. ----------------------------------------------
|
Gaius Kador
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 11:25:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino Ahh, but forgive me if im wrong here, but dont most of u shave to choose between high damage, low armour and low damage high armour? not both?
One or the other, yes. ----------------------------------------------
|
Ebedar
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 11:34:00 -
[123]
Originally by: j0sephine How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
My life in pictures: |
Ebedar
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 11:34:00 -
[124]
Originally by: j0sephine How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
My life in pictures: |
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:03:00 -
[125]
I don't want to turn this into just an Amarr vs the world arguement however our main weapon is pretty much the most cap intensive that exists.
Therefore the longer any fight lasts the more cap problems we will have. This change therefore directly impacts on laser users in a larger way than the other races.
It also means EW ships like Scorpions become even more uber. With extra shields/armour/structure they have even more time to cycle jam everything on the battlefield.
Amarr ships have crap EW. The only EW we can have is at the expense of cap rechargers/relays. We also have only two damage types. Our defences against jamming are limited - kill the jammer quick (no longer so easy due to this change) or fit sensor boosters/radar backups but we cannot fit those countermeasures if battles take longer as we will need to fit cap relays and cap rechargers in order to sustain power.
As I said before I am generally like these changes but the developers do need to take these cap use issues into account. I think from TomB's post that they are to some extent but they need to look at the whole picture.
Cap boosters for instance. You can only fit 8 x 800 cap boosters in an Apoc cargo hold at the moment. That is fine if engagements are typically short - but if engagements drag on you will soon run out of boosters.
As I have said I have not tested this yet (being at work) but these seem like obvious drawbacks to the change.
I am also pointing out to those who are saying that with extra armour Amarr will be ubertanks that ubertank is pointless if you are jammed or have run out of cap...
Finally, just one other thing for the Devs to think about If all ships have so much extra shield/armour/structure then tanking sentries in 0.4 to 0.1 becomes even easier. I forsee an increase in low-sec gate camping unless sentry gun damage is also upped. Or maybe that should be welcomed
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:03:00 -
[126]
I don't want to turn this into just an Amarr vs the world arguement however our main weapon is pretty much the most cap intensive that exists.
Therefore the longer any fight lasts the more cap problems we will have. This change therefore directly impacts on laser users in a larger way than the other races.
It also means EW ships like Scorpions become even more uber. With extra shields/armour/structure they have even more time to cycle jam everything on the battlefield.
Amarr ships have crap EW. The only EW we can have is at the expense of cap rechargers/relays. We also have only two damage types. Our defences against jamming are limited - kill the jammer quick (no longer so easy due to this change) or fit sensor boosters/radar backups but we cannot fit those countermeasures if battles take longer as we will need to fit cap relays and cap rechargers in order to sustain power.
As I said before I am generally like these changes but the developers do need to take these cap use issues into account. I think from TomB's post that they are to some extent but they need to look at the whole picture.
Cap boosters for instance. You can only fit 8 x 800 cap boosters in an Apoc cargo hold at the moment. That is fine if engagements are typically short - but if engagements drag on you will soon run out of boosters.
As I have said I have not tested this yet (being at work) but these seem like obvious drawbacks to the change.
I am also pointing out to those who are saying that with extra armour Amarr will be ubertanks that ubertank is pointless if you are jammed or have run out of cap...
Finally, just one other thing for the Devs to think about If all ships have so much extra shield/armour/structure then tanking sentries in 0.4 to 0.1 becomes even easier. I forsee an increase in low-sec gate camping unless sentry gun damage is also upped. Or maybe that should be welcomed
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:08:00 -
[127]
So, my lady loving Amarrian advesary.
You wish for Amarr ships to be able to tank indefintely, deal more than two types of damages and have good ew defence. As well as have powerful well tracking weapons, and rocking armour? .. so what indeed would be your weaknesss?
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:08:00 -
[128]
So, my lady loving Amarrian advesary.
You wish for Amarr ships to be able to tank indefintely, deal more than two types of damages and have good ew defence. As well as have powerful well tracking weapons, and rocking armour? .. so what indeed would be your weaknesss?
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Gaius Kador
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:13:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino So, my lady loving Amarrian advesary.
You wish for Amarr ships to be able to tank indefintely, deal more than two types of damages and have good ew defence. As well as have powerful well tracking weapons, and rocking armour? .. so what indeed would be your weaknesss?
He did not say that ;) ----------------------------------------------
|
Gaius Kador
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:13:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino So, my lady loving Amarrian advesary.
You wish for Amarr ships to be able to tank indefintely, deal more than two types of damages and have good ew defence. As well as have powerful well tracking weapons, and rocking armour? .. so what indeed would be your weaknesss?
He did not say that ;) ----------------------------------------------
|
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:19:00 -
[131]
Indeed I didn't...
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:19:00 -
[132]
Indeed I didn't...
|
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:21:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Discorporation on 21/12/2004 12:21:36 Lasers use fkall cap when you got your skills maxed, so that's not really an argument, imo
Apocs will do fine, if not amazing, after a change like this.
Amarr ships can out-cap practically every other vessel. Laser cap-drain help balance this (on ships other then apocs), but they use little cap atm.
7.5% cap/lvl better?
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:21:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Discorporation on 21/12/2004 12:21:36 Lasers use fkall cap when you got your skills maxed, so that's not really an argument, imo
Apocs will do fine, if not amazing, after a change like this.
Amarr ships can out-cap practically every other vessel. Laser cap-drain help balance this (on ships other then apocs), but they use little cap atm.
7.5% cap/lvl better?
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:25:00 -
[135]
/ruffles Hardins sparse hair follicles.
Dude, i tell you what, ill swap chars with you for a day, and then we can see things from the other side. :) -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:25:00 -
[136]
/ruffles Hardins sparse hair follicles.
Dude, i tell you what, ill swap chars with you for a day, and then we can see things from the other side. :) -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Loka
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:34:00 -
[137]
well my Blastersetup suxx more cap than any of your lasers. Together with the MWD i HAVE to fit, you must admit, that the Gallente Blasterthsips are the most capintensive ships in EVE.
Dont come me with Amarr. When i already read, "damn i cant use my full offense AND defense for more than 10 min..." Damn i struggle doing it for 4 min!!!!!!!!
Most Megathron pilots not even have the ability to fit more than one large AR and one med! _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
|
Loka
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 12:34:00 -
[138]
well my Blastersetup suxx more cap than any of your lasers. Together with the MWD i HAVE to fit, you must admit, that the Gallente Blasterthsips are the most capintensive ships in EVE.
Dont come me with Amarr. When i already read, "damn i cant use my full offense AND defense for more than 10 min..." Damn i struggle doing it for 4 min!!!!!!!!
Most Megathron pilots not even have the ability to fit more than one large AR and one med! _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 13:28:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Hardin All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
i am NPC huntting in one, so dont try to fool us!
Apoch can without no problems use Beams and armor tank indefinetly -------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 13:28:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Hardin All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
i am NPC huntting in one, so dont try to fool us!
Apoch can without no problems use Beams and armor tank indefinetly -------------------------------------------
|
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 13:56:00 -
[141]
I am going to shut up now...
This is clearly a Minmatar conspiracy
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 13:56:00 -
[142]
I am going to shut up now...
This is clearly a Minmatar conspiracy
|
H Zub
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 13:59:00 -
[143]
This change may sound good, but is it really?
After this change how can you fight solo? Its hard as it is already to pick a fight, and easy for anyone who dont want to fight to just get away or stay out of pvp. If we double the hit points of all ships anyone who wish to escape will reach the gate or station before his ship will explode, even when webified. Could this be what CCP want? I truly hope thats not the case.
I'm not interested in big blob wars, if you try to force me I'll simply find another game. Captain Morgan Society Me parrot Movie |
H Zub
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 13:59:00 -
[144]
This change may sound good, but is it really?
After this change how can you fight solo? Its hard as it is already to pick a fight, and easy for anyone who dont want to fight to just get away or stay out of pvp. If we double the hit points of all ships anyone who wish to escape will reach the gate or station before his ship will explode, even when webified. Could this be what CCP want? I truly hope thats not the case.
I'm not interested in big blob wars, if you try to force me I'll simply find another game. Captain Morgan Society Me parrot Movie |
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:22:00 -
[145]
lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh?
Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want.
Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values. -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:22:00 -
[146]
lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh?
Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want.
Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values. -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:26:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh?
Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want.
Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values.
like they did when they fixed projektiles? right? -------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:26:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh?
Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want.
Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values.
like they did when they fixed projektiles? right? -------------------------------------------
|
Lifewire
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:27:00 -
[149]
It¦s quite simple: tanking will get improved! This means a Scorpion with 15000 shield, 8 hardeners will be a very safe ship to travel. If you jump into an enemy team of 3 ships, just activate hardeners and log of. Who will destroy 30000 hitpoints in 3 minutes if 15000 of these hitpoints have resistances about 70-80%???
|
Lifewire
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:27:00 -
[150]
It¦s quite simple: tanking will get improved! This means a Scorpion with 15000 shield, 8 hardeners will be a very safe ship to travel. If you jump into an enemy team of 3 ships, just activate hardeners and log of. Who will destroy 30000 hitpoints in 3 minutes if 15000 of these hitpoints have resistances about 70-80%???
|
|
Loka
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:30:00 -
[151]
well targets not webbed, will jump either. Webbed targets wont make it either, if they dont fight. Except you dont bring the firepower to break his tank.
1vs1 fights are always outanked or beeing a dmg*****. In both scenarios more HP wont change anything.
Not only your oponent has more but you too. If you break his tank or dry his cap, he will sink. That simple.
More HP will make a huge different in fleetbattles and will bring more setups ot the light.
Well we will see if its good or bad. But imo its too early to say either. NPC hunting must as ballanced as mining and PvP. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
|
Loka
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:30:00 -
[152]
well targets not webbed, will jump either. Webbed targets wont make it either, if they dont fight. Except you dont bring the firepower to break his tank.
1vs1 fights are always outanked or beeing a dmg*****. In both scenarios more HP wont change anything.
Not only your oponent has more but you too. If you break his tank or dry his cap, he will sink. That simple.
More HP will make a huge different in fleetbattles and will bring more setups ot the light.
Well we will see if its good or bad. But imo its too early to say either. NPC hunting must as ballanced as mining and PvP. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:38:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Siddy
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh?
Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want.
Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values.
like they did when they fixed projektiles? right?
I stand corrected. -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:38:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Siddy
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh?
Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want.
Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values.
like they did when they fixed projektiles? right?
I stand corrected. -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:40:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Terle
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: j0sephine "that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods."
Yes, if i wish to help to test the game, i have to ask other players to provide me with means to perform the tests and take extra time to jump through all involved hoops. The question remains -- how is that making the test server any more efficient?
"how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it..."
How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
how was i being a "fanboi" ?? by giving you suggestions to help solve your problem ?? that makes me a fanboy?
so you wanted to whine but not get solutions to the problem? what, you just wanted someone to listen to you? my ex-girlfriend used to do that to me all the time. she'd moan and complain about something and after listening i'd offer my opinions. she'd just cry more and say, "i just wanted someone to listen to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! waaah!"
okay. well, have fun with your problem then. i choose to do something about it instead of just whining.
You seem to be negating yourself with your basic premise, the "community" on the test server. Last time I logged onto the test server there were exactly 9 people on. It seems the only one "whining" here is you. Whining meaning complaining with no apparent reason, a concept you apparently do not get Flummox.
Of course, I highly doubt you'll get the meaning of this post either, it doesn't say what you want it too hehe.
BTW, I think the fanboi turnaround suited Flummox perfectly Josephine
really? exactly how am i the one whining? and what's the topic i'm whining about? could you quote me where i am complaining about something but not doing anything about it?
you are dead wrong on everything in your post about me. fanboi? uh, okay. if "hating whiney people who cry to their god/dev instead of picking up their own pieces" makes me a fanboi, then i must be in a parralel universe.
okay. maybe i'm a little irritated about FCC because we've been hearing people WHINE about it for 3 months now. and, those WHINERS, and even the people who ask nicely, have been given the answer to their problem. they said they'd look into it. there were thread after thread posted about this subject during Shiva testing. okay? it's getting old...
yeah. i'm a fanboi alright. pfffffffffff!
i ain't the one whining about FCC, Terle. only thing i can be said to whine about would be people who rag on about topics that have been fussed over for months.
and, yes, i'm a fanboi of stamping out ignorance...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:40:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Terle
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: j0sephine "that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods."
Yes, if i wish to help to test the game, i have to ask other players to provide me with means to perform the tests and take extra time to jump through all involved hoops. The question remains -- how is that making the test server any more efficient?
"how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it..."
How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
how was i being a "fanboi" ?? by giving you suggestions to help solve your problem ?? that makes me a fanboy?
so you wanted to whine but not get solutions to the problem? what, you just wanted someone to listen to you? my ex-girlfriend used to do that to me all the time. she'd moan and complain about something and after listening i'd offer my opinions. she'd just cry more and say, "i just wanted someone to listen to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! waaah!"
okay. well, have fun with your problem then. i choose to do something about it instead of just whining.
You seem to be negating yourself with your basic premise, the "community" on the test server. Last time I logged onto the test server there were exactly 9 people on. It seems the only one "whining" here is you. Whining meaning complaining with no apparent reason, a concept you apparently do not get Flummox.
Of course, I highly doubt you'll get the meaning of this post either, it doesn't say what you want it too hehe.
BTW, I think the fanboi turnaround suited Flummox perfectly Josephine
really? exactly how am i the one whining? and what's the topic i'm whining about? could you quote me where i am complaining about something but not doing anything about it?
you are dead wrong on everything in your post about me. fanboi? uh, okay. if "hating whiney people who cry to their god/dev instead of picking up their own pieces" makes me a fanboi, then i must be in a parralel universe.
okay. maybe i'm a little irritated about FCC because we've been hearing people WHINE about it for 3 months now. and, those WHINERS, and even the people who ask nicely, have been given the answer to their problem. they said they'd look into it. there were thread after thread posted about this subject during Shiva testing. okay? it's getting old...
yeah. i'm a fanboi alright. pfffffffffff!
i ain't the one whining about FCC, Terle. only thing i can be said to whine about would be people who rag on about topics that have been fussed over for months.
and, yes, i'm a fanboi of stamping out ignorance...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:59:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Hardin I am going to shut up now...
This is clearly a Minmatar conspiracy
its better, cause rails/blaster use much more cap then lasers
Ever seen your cap when you activate your blasters on a megathron? Wanna fly with me?
|
Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 14:59:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Hardin I am going to shut up now...
This is clearly a Minmatar conspiracy
its better, cause rails/blaster use much more cap then lasers
Ever seen your cap when you activate your blasters on a megathron? Wanna fly with me?
|
Sforza
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 15:03:00 -
[159]
Hardin probably hasnt actually seen the cap usage on blasters, as he and the rest of PIE (admirably, in my view) only fly Amarr ships.
I also remember when lasers did the rare feat of managing to both suck and blow at the same time
Sforza
CEO Vronsky Brothers and Sons
Council Member Ushra'Khan |
Sforza
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 15:03:00 -
[160]
Hardin probably hasnt actually seen the cap usage on blasters, as he and the rest of PIE (admirably, in my view) only fly Amarr ships.
I also remember when lasers did the rare feat of managing to both suck and blow at the same time
Sforza
CEO Vronsky Brothers and Sons
Council Member Ushra'Khan |
|
Ranger 1
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 15:49:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/12/2004 15:50:56 A humble suggestion... actually READ the dev blog before you post your opinion here, including the dev responses included in it. Better yet, do as the post asks and actually try it out on the test server first. PVP is concentual on the test server, so you do NOT have to fight to the death. I'm very happy the fight club will be started up there, it will help a lot.... but it certainly does not mean that zero testing can be done in the meantime. Granted, combat to the death will be much more informative... but that will come. And then, when you have some vague idea of how it will work in practice, form an opinion and post. Back it up with facts and observations and someone might pay attention to your opinion. Remember, they are ASKING you for informed opinions on how to balance this... the numbers are far from final.
Kill the enemy, and break their toys. |
Ranger 1
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 15:49:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/12/2004 15:50:56 A humble suggestion... actually READ the dev blog before you post your opinion here, including the dev responses included in it. Better yet, do as the post asks and actually try it out on the test server first. PVP is concentual on the test server, so you do NOT have to fight to the death. I'm very happy the fight club will be started up there, it will help a lot.... but it certainly does not mean that zero testing can be done in the meantime. Granted, combat to the death will be much more informative... but that will come. And then, when you have some vague idea of how it will work in practice, form an opinion and post. Back it up with facts and observations and someone might pay attention to your opinion. Remember, they are ASKING you for informed opinions on how to balance this... the numbers are far from final.
Kill the enemy, and break their toys. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 18:14:00 -
[163]
What I donÆt want to happen is finding out Gallente are no longer the best passive shield tankers. It seems unfair to take a race that was the best at something for over a year and making it so they are no longer the best.
Caldari should have the most shield hitpoints and best active shield boosters.
Gallente should have the best passive shield tanking but overall less shield hitpoints then Caldari. Perhaps boost Caldari hitpoints by 100% but boost Gallente shield recharge more by 30% and shield hitpoints by 50%.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 18:14:00 -
[164]
What I donÆt want to happen is finding out Gallente are no longer the best passive shield tankers. It seems unfair to take a race that was the best at something for over a year and making it so they are no longer the best.
Caldari should have the most shield hitpoints and best active shield boosters.
Gallente should have the best passive shield tanking but overall less shield hitpoints then Caldari. Perhaps boost Caldari hitpoints by 100% but boost Gallente shield recharge more by 30% and shield hitpoints by 50%.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 19:27:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Pottsey What I donÆt want to happen is finding out Gallente are no longer the best passive shield tankers. It seems unfair to take a race that was the best at something for over a year and making it so they are no longer the best.
Caldari should have the most shield hitpoints and best active shield boosters.
Gallente should have the best passive shield tanking but overall less shield hitpoints then Caldari. Perhaps boost Caldari hitpoints by 100% but boost Gallente shield recharge more by 30% and shield hitpoints by 50%.
õhh please dont disturb Devs getting PvP back in Order ok? Wanna fly with me?
|
Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 19:27:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Pottsey What I donÆt want to happen is finding out Gallente are no longer the best passive shield tankers. It seems unfair to take a race that was the best at something for over a year and making it so they are no longer the best.
Caldari should have the most shield hitpoints and best active shield boosters.
Gallente should have the best passive shield tanking but overall less shield hitpoints then Caldari. Perhaps boost Caldari hitpoints by 100% but boost Gallente shield recharge more by 30% and shield hitpoints by 50%.
õhh please dont disturb Devs getting PvP back in Order ok? Wanna fly with me?
|
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 19:41:00 -
[167]
öõhh please dont disturb Devs getting PvP back in Order ok?ö I am not trying to disturb the devs I just want them to get it right without missing it up for us lot that passive tank and this change effects more then just PvP and some of us passive tank in PvP.
If your going mess around with shield hitpoints you need to think about how its going effect passive tankers. Will it make us to powerful or will it make or worse. Right now passive tanking is balance but these change's could unbalance it.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 19:41:00 -
[168]
öõhh please dont disturb Devs getting PvP back in Order ok?ö I am not trying to disturb the devs I just want them to get it right without missing it up for us lot that passive tank and this change effects more then just PvP and some of us passive tank in PvP.
If your going mess around with shield hitpoints you need to think about how its going effect passive tankers. Will it make us to powerful or will it make or worse. Right now passive tanking is balance but these change's could unbalance it.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 19:56:00 -
[169]
i would laugh at anyone who does passive tanking no matter what Wanna fly with me?
|
Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 19:56:00 -
[170]
i would laugh at anyone who does passive tanking no matter what Wanna fly with me?
|
|
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 20:03:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Pottsey on 21/12/2004 20:04:56 Why whatÆs so bad about 108 shield points a second with no cap drain or 80+ with hardners and T1 modules? ThatÆs more then an extra large shield booster T1. Perhaps we should start a new thread about is or isnÆt passive tanking worth it as I dont want to take over this thread. But people use passive setups so so it does need to be balanced with the new changes.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 20:03:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Pottsey on 21/12/2004 20:04:56 Why whatÆs so bad about 108 shield points a second with no cap drain or 80+ with hardners and T1 modules? ThatÆs more then an extra large shield booster T1. Perhaps we should start a new thread about is or isnÆt passive tanking worth it as I dont want to take over this thread. But people use passive setups so so it does need to be balanced with the new changes.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Gierling
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 20:08:00 -
[173]
Ok can someone please explain the logic of 300% structure?
Structure has no resists, the number would have to be ridiculous big to even be remotely useable.
Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking.
Unless of course, this is coming as a prereq to getting rid of Tanking (which would be great). Maybe thier planning on making all repairers unusable in combat that would give Logistics cruisers a purpose.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Gierling
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 20:08:00 -
[174]
Ok can someone please explain the logic of 300% structure?
Structure has no resists, the number would have to be ridiculous big to even be remotely useable.
Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking.
Unless of course, this is coming as a prereq to getting rid of Tanking (which would be great). Maybe thier planning on making all repairers unusable in combat that would give Logistics cruisers a purpose.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 20:26:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Gierling Ok can someone please explain the logic of 300% structure?
Structure has no resists, the number would have to be ridiculous big to even be remotely useable.
Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking.
Unless of course, this is coming as a prereq to getting rid of Tanking (which would be great). Maybe thier planning on making all repairers unusable in combat that would give Logistics cruisers a purpose.
Nah, you're wrong. 3000% to structure would be insanely better than 100% extra armor. The amount of raw damage you'd have to do is huge.
But alas, its only 300% and I doubt you'll ever be able to tank structure. Megathron has around 9300 armor and 24000 structure while apoc has 12000 armor and 10000? structure..
Main problem right now is the balance of the megathron. Apoc's bonus makes it so lasers use less cap than hybrids, which is the stupidest thing I've heard of, since one of the main justifications for their cap bonus is they need it.
Now they don't, which lets them tank forever. Tbh giving megathron structure bonus only reinforces the fact that its better to just go in gank style, since tanking nerfs your damage significantly on the megathron, and you'll never be able to match an apoc.
Imo, megapulse need a significant range nerf so it gives people a reason to use the higher cap use lasers like megabeam/tach in ranges that don't exceed 60km. Cap use of lasers should be reset to old values or the bonus should be lowered back to 5%, when they did the laser rebalance it was clearly too much to do both.
ps: I did go on sisi and test. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 20:26:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Gierling Ok can someone please explain the logic of 300% structure?
Structure has no resists, the number would have to be ridiculous big to even be remotely useable.
Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking.
Unless of course, this is coming as a prereq to getting rid of Tanking (which would be great). Maybe thier planning on making all repairers unusable in combat that would give Logistics cruisers a purpose.
Nah, you're wrong. 3000% to structure would be insanely better than 100% extra armor. The amount of raw damage you'd have to do is huge.
But alas, its only 300% and I doubt you'll ever be able to tank structure. Megathron has around 9300 armor and 24000 structure while apoc has 12000 armor and 10000? structure..
Main problem right now is the balance of the megathron. Apoc's bonus makes it so lasers use less cap than hybrids, which is the stupidest thing I've heard of, since one of the main justifications for their cap bonus is they need it.
Now they don't, which lets them tank forever. Tbh giving megathron structure bonus only reinforces the fact that its better to just go in gank style, since tanking nerfs your damage significantly on the megathron, and you'll never be able to match an apoc.
Imo, megapulse need a significant range nerf so it gives people a reason to use the higher cap use lasers like megabeam/tach in ranges that don't exceed 60km. Cap use of lasers should be reset to old values or the bonus should be lowered back to 5%, when they did the laser rebalance it was clearly too much to do both.
ps: I did go on sisi and test. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 20:41:00 -
[177]
"Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking."
... To balance 3000 hp of structure with 100 hp of hardened shield/armour, you'd need your hardening/tanking be at least 97% effective. ^^;
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 20:41:00 -
[178]
"Hell giving a 3000% increase to structure HP wouldn't be as effective as 100% more to armour or shields when one factors in Tanking."
... To balance 3000 hp of structure with 100 hp of hardened shield/armour, you'd need your hardening/tanking be at least 97% effective. ^^;
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 20:56:00 -
[179]
DC,
The hybrid cap vs laser cap argument has been brought up a million times but nothing is ever done about it
Will the increased HP's result in a change of MASS for each ship?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 20:56:00 -
[180]
DC,
The hybrid cap vs laser cap argument has been brought up a million times but nothing is ever done about it
Will the increased HP's result in a change of MASS for each ship?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
|
Redon
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 22:06:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Redon on 21/12/2004 22:06:34 god can u guys give minmatar some love i mean omfg. you nerfed the projectiles and now u dont boost the minmatar ships like all the other reace ships whats with that?
Image removed, use the signature settings for signature graphics please. -Omniscience
|
Redon
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 22:06:00 -
[182]
Edited by: Redon on 21/12/2004 22:06:34 god can u guys give minmatar some love i mean omfg. you nerfed the projectiles and now u dont boost the minmatar ships like all the other reace ships whats with that?
Image removed, use the signature settings for signature graphics please. -Omniscience
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 22:09:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Redon Edited by: Redon on 21/12/2004 22:06:34 god can u guys give minmatar some love i mean omfg. you nerfed the projectiles and now u dont boost the minmatar ships like all the other reace ships whats with that?
Image removed, use the signature settings for signature graphics please. -Omniscience
Ummmmmmm
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 22:09:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Redon Edited by: Redon on 21/12/2004 22:06:34 god can u guys give minmatar some love i mean omfg. you nerfed the projectiles and now u dont boost the minmatar ships like all the other reace ships whats with that?
Image removed, use the signature settings for signature graphics please. -Omniscience
Ummmmmmm
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
mafish
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 23:04:00 -
[185]
Edited by: mafish on 21/12/2004 23:04:27 i am crossing my fingers hear but i really doubt it but hear goes.
what will happen to cap injecters cos atm i use them and when fighting a armour tanked apoc or another nicly tanked ship i can just about win but i run out of boosters. now with this extra hp put into play i will easyly run out of boosters before killing my target now imo this will destroy sheild tanks maily because you can use diogs cap relays and flux's but they all have down falls I.E -20% total cap with flux's -10% sheild boost with cap relay's and just not giving the regen needed to fight a ship that can run forever which is diog's.
so my question is are you gonna increase the ammount given or lower the cargo needed to make sure that these mods are not only usful to kill cruisers with?
i dont care about retards why may post cry me a river, do you want cheese with that whine or call a waaaamblence i would like to know so i can ajust me set up and start planing for if this comes in
|
mafish
|
Posted - 2004.12.21 23:04:00 -
[186]
Edited by: mafish on 21/12/2004 23:04:27 i am crossing my fingers hear but i really doubt it but hear goes.
what will happen to cap injecters cos atm i use them and when fighting a armour tanked apoc or another nicly tanked ship i can just about win but i run out of boosters. now with this extra hp put into play i will easyly run out of boosters before killing my target now imo this will destroy sheild tanks maily because you can use diogs cap relays and flux's but they all have down falls I.E -20% total cap with flux's -10% sheild boost with cap relay's and just not giving the regen needed to fight a ship that can run forever which is diog's.
so my question is are you gonna increase the ammount given or lower the cargo needed to make sure that these mods are not only usful to kill cruisers with?
i dont care about retards why may post cry me a river, do you want cheese with that whine or call a waaaamblence i would like to know so i can ajust me set up and start planing for if this comes in
|
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 00:14:00 -
[187]
Originally by: OffBeaT like i said befor and somone has too stand up for the lesser skilled players. if they cant get their hands on the t2 weopons in reasonable time, they are gona be sitting ducks up against them tuffer ships with t2 firepower. this is not gona be a good deal for them in anyway trying too take on these ships with t1 firepower.
Lower skilled players shouldnt be able to compete on level pegging with their low skills, their not meant to, nor should they be able too, train up over time like the rest of us had too, there should be no shortcuts just because some wish to blow up high skilled players with their low skills and are too impatient to wait... __________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 00:14:00 -
[188]
Originally by: OffBeaT like i said befor and somone has too stand up for the lesser skilled players. if they cant get their hands on the t2 weopons in reasonable time, they are gona be sitting ducks up against them tuffer ships with t2 firepower. this is not gona be a good deal for them in anyway trying too take on these ships with t1 firepower.
Lower skilled players shouldnt be able to compete on level pegging with their low skills, their not meant to, nor should they be able too, train up over time like the rest of us had too, there should be no shortcuts just because some wish to blow up high skilled players with their low skills and are too impatient to wait... __________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 00:23:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 21/12/2004 20:04:56 Why whatÆs so bad about 108 shield points a second with no cap drain or 80+ with hardners and T1 modules? ThatÆs more then an extra large shield booster T1. Perhaps we should start a new thread about is or isnÆt passive tanking worth it as I dont want to take over this thread. But people use passive setups so so it does need to be balanced with the new changes.
because thats 108 shield points of unhardened shields, easily broken with a volley of laser fire or em torps.
Funny yes when you have no cap but still shield boosting, not funny for you when you try and warp when you need too but you cant due to no cap.
Your arguments about passive boosting (not tanking as your not hardening anything to make yourself tougher) while interesting are unfortunatly invalid due to such a small audience (basically just yourself i see here defending your prefered setup) trying to push the gallente into your prefered system is not a valid balance choice for CCP for the masses.
Gallente simply need higher armour stats than the amarr, to compensate for the lack of gallente cap recharge over amarr, allowing them a larger armour buffer before they need to repair and disable their repairers, while the amarr as they can now would simply boost the whole time and sustain their tank. __________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 00:23:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 21/12/2004 20:04:56 Why whatÆs so bad about 108 shield points a second with no cap drain or 80+ with hardners and T1 modules? ThatÆs more then an extra large shield booster T1. Perhaps we should start a new thread about is or isnÆt passive tanking worth it as I dont want to take over this thread. But people use passive setups so so it does need to be balanced with the new changes.
because thats 108 shield points of unhardened shields, easily broken with a volley of laser fire or em torps.
Funny yes when you have no cap but still shield boosting, not funny for you when you try and warp when you need too but you cant due to no cap.
Your arguments about passive boosting (not tanking as your not hardening anything to make yourself tougher) while interesting are unfortunatly invalid due to such a small audience (basically just yourself i see here defending your prefered setup) trying to push the gallente into your prefered system is not a valid balance choice for CCP for the masses.
Gallente simply need higher armour stats than the amarr, to compensate for the lack of gallente cap recharge over amarr, allowing them a larger armour buffer before they need to repair and disable their repairers, while the amarr as they can now would simply boost the whole time and sustain their tank. __________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
|
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 08:48:00 -
[191]
Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 09:04:36 "Funny yes when you have no cap but still shield boosting, not funny for you when you try and warp when you need too but you cant due to no cap." You have loads of cap to warp out as without boosters draining cap reactor cap lasts a long time and lots of people have got it to work.
öYour arguments about passive boosting (not tanking as your not hardening anything to make yourself tougher) while interesting are unfortunatly invalid due to such a small audience (basically just yourself i see here defending your prefered setup) trying to push the gallente into your prefered system is not a valid balance choice for CCP for the masses.ö Go up and read again I said 80+ shield points a second with hardeners which matchÆs shield tanking with T1 boosters. I do use hardeners in combat. I am not trying to push CCP into my preferred system am I trying to make it so my preferred system is not made to powerful or weak compared to shield boosting because no one is thinking about it.
Just because you donÆt believe passive tanking works, does not mean itÆs useless or does not have to be thought about. If you boost someoneÆs shields cap by 100% or even 120% like they said first then change shield extenders to give more shield cap per module your going end up with passive tanking giving twice as much points per second as amour tanking even when you use hardeners depending on how you change extenders. As soon as T2 modules come out we will be getting 150 shield points a second with current modules and hitpoints. Now with the other changes thatÆs going go up to 200 or 250 perhaps even 300+ a second with hardeners and your saying we do not need to think about balancing passive tanking. Some of the ideas here would have giving passive thanking 500+ a second because they didnÆt think about it. Which is to powerful.
Passive tanking with the new changeÆs need to be thought about so it does not become to powerful or to weak. I donÆt know about you but 250 + shield points a second seems like a lot to me. ThatÆs 1250 over 5 seconds more then an extra large shield booster and that's not takeing into account the two new implants that you can use at the same time that boost passive tanking. NPC will not stand a chance on missions and 1v1 PvP would not be hard.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 08:48:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 09:04:36 "Funny yes when you have no cap but still shield boosting, not funny for you when you try and warp when you need too but you cant due to no cap." You have loads of cap to warp out as without boosters draining cap reactor cap lasts a long time and lots of people have got it to work.
öYour arguments about passive boosting (not tanking as your not hardening anything to make yourself tougher) while interesting are unfortunatly invalid due to such a small audience (basically just yourself i see here defending your prefered setup) trying to push the gallente into your prefered system is not a valid balance choice for CCP for the masses.ö Go up and read again I said 80+ shield points a second with hardeners which matchÆs shield tanking with T1 boosters. I do use hardeners in combat. I am not trying to push CCP into my preferred system am I trying to make it so my preferred system is not made to powerful or weak compared to shield boosting because no one is thinking about it.
Just because you donÆt believe passive tanking works, does not mean itÆs useless or does not have to be thought about. If you boost someoneÆs shields cap by 100% or even 120% like they said first then change shield extenders to give more shield cap per module your going end up with passive tanking giving twice as much points per second as amour tanking even when you use hardeners depending on how you change extenders. As soon as T2 modules come out we will be getting 150 shield points a second with current modules and hitpoints. Now with the other changes thatÆs going go up to 200 or 250 perhaps even 300+ a second with hardeners and your saying we do not need to think about balancing passive tanking. Some of the ideas here would have giving passive thanking 500+ a second because they didnÆt think about it. Which is to powerful.
Passive tanking with the new changeÆs need to be thought about so it does not become to powerful or to weak. I donÆt know about you but 250 + shield points a second seems like a lot to me. ThatÆs 1250 over 5 seconds more then an extra large shield booster and that's not takeing into account the two new implants that you can use at the same time that boost passive tanking. NPC will not stand a chance on missions and 1v1 PvP would not be hard.
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Estios
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 14:21:00 -
[193]
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: j0sephine "two complaints... then don't test. okay?"
It was exactly my point, these things prevent people from testing they were asked to do.
What is your point, if you had any to begin with?
that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods.
how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it...
Calling j0 a whiner actually evidences how little clue you have about anything really
Superb points j0 as usual, if you want players to test a host of scenario's then there has to be a FC.
Without FC your results are meaningless because players on TQ have access to everything and no matter how weird YOU think a certain set up is , chances are someone out there will run it. ALL modules need to available to gauge any real tested results
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
|
Estios
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 14:21:00 -
[194]
Originally by: flummox
Originally by: j0sephine "two complaints... then don't test. okay?"
It was exactly my point, these things prevent people from testing they were asked to do.
What is your point, if you had any to begin with?
that there are plenty of people who have ships and mods. yes, even from a month ago. if you wish to help test the game, ask the COMMUNITY for assistance in giving you ships and mods.
how many whiners does it take to change a lightbulb? none. they just sit in the dark and ***** about it...
Calling j0 a whiner actually evidences how little clue you have about anything really
Superb points j0 as usual, if you want players to test a host of scenario's then there has to be a FC.
Without FC your results are meaningless because players on TQ have access to everything and no matter how weird YOU think a certain set up is , chances are someone out there will run it. ALL modules need to available to gauge any real tested results
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
|
Estios
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 14:32:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Hardin All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
If combat last longer then Amarr ships are going to run out of cap and die.
I can understand however why this change has been brought in as it will make gankgeddon setups obsolete in small engagements (though still handy in fleet engagements) as gankers will run out of cap before their enemy actually dies.
This change in general seem to suit projectile users who have no offensive cap requirements and can therefore take their time killing things.
But as I haven't tested this yet maybe I am all wrong...
Btw Devs listen to j0sephine - she knows her stuff when it comes to testing
With all due respect Hardin the above is , well utterly incorrect. Atm if you cannot keep lasers and THE BEST tank in the game running longer than any other ship out there then your set up sucks
I have an Apoc which tanks better than any of the other BS's I own (ie all) and I can run it and all its weapons almost forever. I can go afk in 0.0 npc belts.
I will not say its 'Amarr ftw' though as I havent tested much but dont use cap as a reason to defend Amarr ships because cap effects ALL ships and Amarr have the most anyway
I did just create a well hardened Scorp with 26 k shields though. NOTHING can kill that in the time it takes me to log off and disapear
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
|
Estios
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 14:32:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Hardin All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
If combat last longer then Amarr ships are going to run out of cap and die.
I can understand however why this change has been brought in as it will make gankgeddon setups obsolete in small engagements (though still handy in fleet engagements) as gankers will run out of cap before their enemy actually dies.
This change in general seem to suit projectile users who have no offensive cap requirements and can therefore take their time killing things.
But as I haven't tested this yet maybe I am all wrong...
Btw Devs listen to j0sephine - she knows her stuff when it comes to testing
With all due respect Hardin the above is , well utterly incorrect. Atm if you cannot keep lasers and THE BEST tank in the game running longer than any other ship out there then your set up sucks
I have an Apoc which tanks better than any of the other BS's I own (ie all) and I can run it and all its weapons almost forever. I can go afk in 0.0 npc belts.
I will not say its 'Amarr ftw' though as I havent tested much but dont use cap as a reason to defend Amarr ships because cap effects ALL ships and Amarr have the most anyway
I did just create a well hardened Scorp with 26 k shields though. NOTHING can kill that in the time it takes me to log off and disapear
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
|
Estios
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 14:40:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Estios on 22/12/2004 14:47:18
Originally by: Hardin
I don't want to turn this into just an Amarr vs the world arguement however our main weapon is pretty much the most cap intensive that exists.
Therefore the longer any fight lasts the more cap problems we will have. This change therefore directly impacts on laser users in a larger way than the other races.
Hmm you seem to be on a roll here
Your weapons also happen to be the best weapons in game, only offset by their cap usage which is somewhat negated by your ship bonuses.
Your ships get no direct gun bonuses such as extra dmg because their base stats are good enough to not need it
You then mention that a longer fight will require more cap even though your ships have the most cap. Remember you dont HAVE to fit Lasers to an Amarr ship do you but why wouldnt you when they have the best stats and you wouldnt get the Hybrid or projectile bonuses other ships need to make their guns match
Also you fail to mention ammo at all in your post despite another huge benefit of longer combat being ammo capacity and reload times. A ship which has to stop firing for 10 seconds every 12 rounds or whatever 1400's hold (see its been that long since I fired one) is being effected much more than a laser firing ship which just keeps dishing dmg.
Again I dont know if this change is good or bad yet as I havent tested but attempting to defend Amarr vessels without really being fair isnt helping
Sorry dude, I still lub you but your argument is a little thin atm
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
|
Estios
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 14:40:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Estios on 22/12/2004 14:47:18
Originally by: Hardin
I don't want to turn this into just an Amarr vs the world arguement however our main weapon is pretty much the most cap intensive that exists.
Therefore the longer any fight lasts the more cap problems we will have. This change therefore directly impacts on laser users in a larger way than the other races.
Hmm you seem to be on a roll here
Your weapons also happen to be the best weapons in game, only offset by their cap usage which is somewhat negated by your ship bonuses.
Your ships get no direct gun bonuses such as extra dmg because their base stats are good enough to not need it
You then mention that a longer fight will require more cap even though your ships have the most cap. Remember you dont HAVE to fit Lasers to an Amarr ship do you but why wouldnt you when they have the best stats and you wouldnt get the Hybrid or projectile bonuses other ships need to make their guns match
Also you fail to mention ammo at all in your post despite another huge benefit of longer combat being ammo capacity and reload times. A ship which has to stop firing for 10 seconds every 12 rounds or whatever 1400's hold (see its been that long since I fired one) is being effected much more than a laser firing ship which just keeps dishing dmg.
Again I dont know if this change is good or bad yet as I havent tested but attempting to defend Amarr vessels without really being fair isnt helping
Sorry dude, I still lub you but your argument is a little thin atm
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
|
Estios
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 14:50:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Hardin
Cap boosters for instance. You can only fit 8 x 800 cap boosters in an Apoc cargo hold at the moment. That is fine if engagements are typically short - but if engagements drag on you will soon run out of boosters.
I guess Im just on your case atm, sorry bud ...BUT ...what sort of argument is that
You can fit the MOST Cap boosters in your hold because you dont have to carry ammo.
You need to ask a Megathron or AC using Tempest pilot how many Cap boosters he can fit in his cargo with all his ammo
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
|
Estios
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 14:50:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Hardin
Cap boosters for instance. You can only fit 8 x 800 cap boosters in an Apoc cargo hold at the moment. That is fine if engagements are typically short - but if engagements drag on you will soon run out of boosters.
I guess Im just on your case atm, sorry bud ...BUT ...what sort of argument is that
You can fit the MOST Cap boosters in your hold because you dont have to carry ammo.
You need to ask a Megathron or AC using Tempest pilot how many Cap boosters he can fit in his cargo with all his ammo
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
|
|
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 16:31:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 09:04:36 "Funny yes when you have no cap but still shield boosting, not funny for you when you try and warp when you need too but you cant due to no cap." You have loads of cap to warp out as without boosters draining cap reactor cap lasts a long time and lots of people have got it to work.
öYour arguments about passive boosting (not tanking as your not hardening anything to make yourself tougher) while interesting are unfortunatly invalid due to such a small audience (basically just yourself i see here defending your prefered setup) trying to push the gallente into your prefered system is not a valid balance choice for CCP for the masses.ö
Go up and read again I said 80+ shield points a second with hardeners which matchÆs shield tanking with T1 boosters. I do use hardeners in combat. I am not trying to push CCP into my preferred system am I trying to make it so my preferred system is not made to powerful or weak compared to shield boosting because no one is thinking about it.
Just because you donÆt believe passive tanking works, does not mean itÆs useless or does not have to be thought about. If you boost someoneÆs shields cap by 100% or even 120% like they said first then change shield extenders to give more shield cap per module your going end up with passive tanking giving twice as much points per second as amour tanking even when you use hardeners depending on how you change extenders. As soon as T2 modules come out we will be getting 150 shield points a second with current modules and hitpoints. Now with the other changes thatÆs going go up to 200 or 250 perhaps even 300+ a second with hardeners and your saying we do not need to think about balancing passive tanking. Some of the ideas here would have giving passive thanking 500+ a second because they didnÆt think about it. Which is to powerful.
Passive tanking with the new changeÆs need to be thought about so it does not become to powerful or to weak. I donÆt know about you but 250 + shield points a second seems like a lot to me. ThatÆs 1250 over 5 seconds more then an extra large shield booster and that's not takeing into account the two new implants that you can use at the same time that boost passive tanking. NPC will not stand a chance on missions and 1v1 PvP would not be hard.
Passive does work and yes myself+corp mates have tested it, however good your shields boost, your problem pvp wise is still that your cap only lasts so long to fire with or be able to warp off, invulnerability means little if you have limited fight back ability. __________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 16:31:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 09:04:36 "Funny yes when you have no cap but still shield boosting, not funny for you when you try and warp when you need too but you cant due to no cap." You have loads of cap to warp out as without boosters draining cap reactor cap lasts a long time and lots of people have got it to work.
öYour arguments about passive boosting (not tanking as your not hardening anything to make yourself tougher) while interesting are unfortunatly invalid due to such a small audience (basically just yourself i see here defending your prefered setup) trying to push the gallente into your prefered system is not a valid balance choice for CCP for the masses.ö
Go up and read again I said 80+ shield points a second with hardeners which matchÆs shield tanking with T1 boosters. I do use hardeners in combat. I am not trying to push CCP into my preferred system am I trying to make it so my preferred system is not made to powerful or weak compared to shield boosting because no one is thinking about it.
Just because you donÆt believe passive tanking works, does not mean itÆs useless or does not have to be thought about. If you boost someoneÆs shields cap by 100% or even 120% like they said first then change shield extenders to give more shield cap per module your going end up with passive tanking giving twice as much points per second as amour tanking even when you use hardeners depending on how you change extenders. As soon as T2 modules come out we will be getting 150 shield points a second with current modules and hitpoints. Now with the other changes thatÆs going go up to 200 or 250 perhaps even 300+ a second with hardeners and your saying we do not need to think about balancing passive tanking. Some of the ideas here would have giving passive thanking 500+ a second because they didnÆt think about it. Which is to powerful.
Passive tanking with the new changeÆs need to be thought about so it does not become to powerful or to weak. I donÆt know about you but 250 + shield points a second seems like a lot to me. ThatÆs 1250 over 5 seconds more then an extra large shield booster and that's not takeing into account the two new implants that you can use at the same time that boost passive tanking. NPC will not stand a chance on missions and 1v1 PvP would not be hard.
Passive does work and yes myself+corp mates have tested it, however good your shields boost, your problem pvp wise is still that your cap only lasts so long to fire with or be able to warp off, invulnerability means little if you have limited fight back ability. __________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 17:45:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 18:01:46 Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 17:54:52 If you use missiles or projectileÆs the passive reactor charge should be fast enough that the drain does not matter and you should be able to warp off if no one is scrabbling you. Even if the reactor is not enough you should be able to shoot for well over 30mins and still warp out with projectiles.
Although I have heard of lasers being used with passive setupÆs it seems extremely hard due to the high cap usage. I use 6 blasters and find without nos I can fight for 10 minuets any longer and cap is a problem and I cannot warp out. My reactor skills are at level 1. If I equipped lasers cap would run out in well under 5 minuets which is a problem. So I do kind of agree with you passive does not work well with certain weapons. Ships with 8 blaster or 8 laser do not work to well with passive setups.
Passive setups are certainly not suitable for all ships or all people. Anyway I am posting too much about passive setups so I will try to cut down. If you want to talk about it start another thread. I dont want to keep posting about it in here unless its to do with balancing and how the hitpoints will effect it. Speaking of which has anyone worked out how the new scorp hitpoints will effect passive tanking on a scorp?
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 17:45:00 -
[204]
Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 18:01:46 Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 17:54:52 If you use missiles or projectileÆs the passive reactor charge should be fast enough that the drain does not matter and you should be able to warp off if no one is scrabbling you. Even if the reactor is not enough you should be able to shoot for well over 30mins and still warp out with projectiles.
Although I have heard of lasers being used with passive setupÆs it seems extremely hard due to the high cap usage. I use 6 blasters and find without nos I can fight for 10 minuets any longer and cap is a problem and I cannot warp out. My reactor skills are at level 1. If I equipped lasers cap would run out in well under 5 minuets which is a problem. So I do kind of agree with you passive does not work well with certain weapons. Ships with 8 blaster or 8 laser do not work to well with passive setups.
Passive setups are certainly not suitable for all ships or all people. Anyway I am posting too much about passive setups so I will try to cut down. If you want to talk about it start another thread. I dont want to keep posting about it in here unless its to do with balancing and how the hitpoints will effect it. Speaking of which has anyone worked out how the new scorp hitpoints will effect passive tanking on a scorp?
_________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Redon
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 22:29:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Redon Edited by: Redon on 21/12/2004 22:06:34 god can u guys give minmatar some love i mean omfg. you nerfed the projectiles and now u dont boost the minmatar ships like all the other reace ships whats with that?
Image removed, use the signature settings for signature graphics please. -Omniscience
Ummmmmmm
joshua thats long overdue about the guns. they have sucked since they nerfed them oh what was it like 5months ago. im talking about the crappy new bonuses to shields, armor, structure.
Image removed, use the signature settings for signature graphics please. -Omniscience
|
Redon
|
Posted - 2004.12.22 22:29:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Redon Edited by: Redon on 21/12/2004 22:06:34 god can u guys give minmatar some love i mean omfg. you nerfed the projectiles and now u dont boost the minmatar ships like all the other reace ships whats with that?
Image removed, use the signature settings for signature graphics please. -Omniscience
Ummmmmmm
joshua thats long overdue about the guns. they have sucked since they nerfed them oh what was it like 5months ago. im talking about the crappy new bonuses to shields, armor, structure.
Image removed, use the signature settings for signature graphics please. -Omniscience
|
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.23 13:07:00 -
[207]
Minmatar are nothing but slaves And this will get them earlier graves It serves them right To lose every fight Or so my Amarrian shrink says. ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.12.23 13:07:00 -
[208]
Minmatar are nothing but slaves And this will get them earlier graves It serves them right To lose every fight Or so my Amarrian shrink says. ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Jael Markinsen
|
Posted - 2004.12.23 18:25:00 -
[209]
lol, you are busting me up with that stuff! you go man!
|
Jael Markinsen
|
Posted - 2004.12.23 18:25:00 -
[210]
lol, you are busting me up with that stuff! you go man!
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: [one page] |