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Trebor Daehdoow
Sane Industries Inc.
177
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
This thread is for discussion of the CSM Statement regarding CCP refocusing.
Please keep the main thread clear of discussion, +1 posts and likes only. CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism! CSM 6 Activities Summary | My CSM blog |
Khagah Mishi
4
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
I cannot agree with nor 'like' this part of the statement: "It is the strong belief of the CSM that if CCP refocuses their efforts on delivering what the community wants, they will be able to regain the faith and trust of the community, and subscriber numbers will resume their steady growth." |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
39
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
do not add anything til things/interfaces/pos/sov/ship balance/scaps are fixed please. you game is broken currently, adding more broken shite is not the way forward.
by do not add anything, i mean exactly that. no moving mins, no adding small holding, no anything but fixing what we ******* have now.
btw the link to this is broken in the other +1 post CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
29
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
What was sayed at todays meeting with CCP Zulu? |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
42
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
so the other thread about this subject is the approval thread? and this is the discussion thread?
no wonder people hate the CSM
sorry, I understand the nees for a vote thread of sorts, but liking a thread only likes the poster of the thread and I personally feel you are abusing the like feature by telling the people who agree to like the thread, but threads are not ranked by likes, posters are.
can you see what I'm getting at, its less of an opinion about the post and more an opinion of the poster. The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Zagam
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
97
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
If CCP fleshed out stuff that was inexplicably dropped mid-development (faction warfare, sov revamp), and fixed the glaring game issues (supercaps, sov, neglect of lowsec), many people who have previously left EVE would return en masse. Also, it would help attract new people. I couldn't agree with the statements made by Trebor more, and look forward to CCP's response (both in writing and in actions) to the concerns raised by Trebor. |
AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
8
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
If I have said it once I have said it a thousand time, neither the CSM nor the player base has the right nor the proper information to try to tell CCP how to macromanage their company.
You can tell CCP what you would like to see in game all you want. Have fun with it.
People get really upset at hearing this for some reason, I suppose passion for the game. So tell them what you want in game. Vehemently. Make a thread with a quarter million likes.
But as soon as you tell them how to do it, you are crossing the line.
I.E. let developers develop. Tell them what you want to see developed. As long as its not gold ammo or bypasses industry, I could give 2 *****. Let the managers manage. If you can manage better than them, become one. |
Sexy Moped
The Drones Club
4
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Salpun wrote:What was sayed at todays meeting with CCP Zulu?
This:
CCP Zulu wrote:Watch this space.
Sorry to be sarcastic but not much else to say really. The clouds are growing and multiplying. your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
-The Mittani 17.07.2011 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1549785&page=6#158 |
Trebor Daehdoow
Sane Industries Inc.
202
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Salpun wrote:What was sayed at todays meeting with CCP Zulu?
Due to some unexpected family issues, we did not meet with Zulu today, though we had a long discussion with Xhagen.
We expect to talk to Zulu again early next week. CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism! CSM 6 Activities Summary | My CSM blog |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
170
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for. CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog What does CSM 6 do? |
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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Interesting technique. While I agree in general with what was stated, I will not +1 the thread. Where was the "general" agreement solicitation when w-space nerfs were pushed forward between the CSM and CCP?
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Sexy Moped
The Drones Club
4
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
Can i +1 this? your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
-The Mittani 17.07.2011 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1549785&page=6#158 |
Solstice Project
Freedom Inc.
6
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Watch this ___________________ .
The reason for your TWO CSM-thread is way beyond me, and i actually do not care about you, so i'll never ever give you a like.
I totally agree with red-hotlips.
This feels really, really unnecessary, because we already have a statement from CCP, you guys actually already have plenty of support AND YOU KNOW IT, so this now feels more like HARVESTING than anything else.
There are people that believe you are doing good work and i can only agree with them to some point, maybe, but on the other hand - in my mind - the abbreviation actually means...
**** Sucking Morons.
There, you had my attention. Now get back to work and stop whoring "likes". |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
40
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
i also have toons with over 80mil sp's, but that dosnt mean i wouldnt be happy to let 1 expansion go by that was just a major over haul of all teh broken crap we have now.
whats the point of new shiney stuff, if that new shiney stuff is broken, half arsed and incompleat?
the list of half finsihed broken stuff is so dam long, it would be like a new game to get it all finished and fixed CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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Abrazzar
112
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
I will reserve my +1 for the time after the winter expansion, when words fade and reality sets in. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Raid'En
Apprentice Innovations
37
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:Any new content should be directly related to providing support for iteration of existing content. For example (this is not a proposal, just an example for illustration purposes), an expansion of space could be used to provide opportunities for small sovholding, and materials for new POS structures and manufacturing. that's not even an example, that's the reality of what we want :P
this stuff would be iteration + shiny at the same time, that's the best path. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
46
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:If I have said it once I have said it a thousand time, neither the CSM nor the player base has the right nor the proper information to try to tell CCP how to macromanage their company.
You can tell CCP what you would like to see in game all you want. Have fun with it.
People get really upset at hearing this for some reason, I suppose passion for the game. So tell them what you want in game. Vehemently. Make a thread with a quarter million likes.
But as soon as you tell them how to do it, you are crossing the line.
I.E. let developers develop. Tell them what you want to see developed. As long as its not gold ammo or bypasses industry, I could give 2 *****. Let the managers manage. If you can manage better than them, become one.
I don't want them to continue to assign all of their devs to things other than eve. If they continue to do that they will continue to put out crap expansions and the game will suffer. I am perfectly within my rights to say this.
Why would you even suggest people do not have a *right* to say this? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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EMPstrike
Insurrection Inc
1
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
While i DO agree with the statment in the other thread, i totally disagree that CCP should not focus on new things (which i assumed referred to walkin in stations)
Before Incarna's release there were tons of people posting complaining how CCP promised Walking in Stations for years but never delivered. Which to me showed they really want it.
I have a theory that most people only post in dev threads when they have something to complain about, as the area of discussion on specific issues always change when something is changed or released, and the input is by a vast majority, always negative.
I propose a survey IN GAME amongst the players IN GAME is taken on issues, as alot of people who are busy enjoying the game have no reason to visit the forums other than discussing ship fits or missions or something.
What is it, like 25,000 individual subscribers to the game? when a dev blog is released, after 1 week, its like maybe 3 or 400 people, maybe a bit more, reply to it, and only about 75% of that is negative, and most of that negativity isnt even game related (comments on CCP's competancy, etc)
Have a survey in game, and when making this survey, bear in mind some people have several accounts and they feel they should use them all to make thier own voice bigger.
Find a way to get 1 survey per person, and im fairly sure youll see vastly differing opinions.
EDIT: As a side note and example, ive been a memebr here since 2006, and this is the first day ive used the forums to voice opinions. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
18
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'd love to hear an honest assessment of where Incarna development is actually at. If it's close to being deliverable I'd like to see a third development of development resources for walking in stations, a third for new space content and a third for maintenance and improvement of existing space content. If it's not close then I'm just really disappointed.
The players are calling out CCP for real issues but I also agree with this quote from Steve Jobs:
Quote:You canGÇÖt just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, theyGÇÖll want something new.
Overall, just depressing. I'll keep watching this space and keep my hopes up that I like what appears. Rees Noturana // Professional Treasure Hunter |
Grateler
The People's Liberation Front of Offugen
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:If I have said it once I have said it a thousand time, neither the CSM nor the player base has the right nor the proper information to try to tell CCP how to macromanage their company.
You can tell CCP what you would like to see in game all you want. Have fun with it.
People get really upset at hearing this for some reason, I suppose passion for the game. So tell them what you want in game. Vehemently. Make a thread with a quarter million likes.
But as soon as you tell them how to do it, you are crossing the line.
I.E. let developers develop. Tell them what you want to see developed. As long as its not gold ammo or bypasses industry, I could give 2 *****. Let the managers manage. If you can manage better than them, become one.
No one is telling the how to do anything but telling them what needs fixing.
Not sure where your comments are coming from....
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Trainwreck McGee
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1 CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Cozmik R5
Dock 94
14
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
I do not want to +1 a discussion. I want to +1 actual results.
Here's to hoping I can +1 something! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try. |
Grateler
The People's Liberation Front of Offugen
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Whilst its a good step CCP are taking to focus on what people want my concern is that you cant please all the people all of the time.
Whatever they choose to work on it wont make everyone happy and will still cause others to be irate. For example, one often heard complaint when incarna launched was not that FiS was ignored, but that there was only one skin for CQ, ie people wanted CCP to work on more pointless CQ nonsense!
As long as they are working on the Eve Spaceships game and not wasting time on stuff like CQ which offers no real new gameplay and improves the existing FiS stuff Im happy, but many will still complain. |
AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
12
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cearain wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:If I have said it once I have said it a thousand time, neither the CSM nor the player base has the right nor the proper information to try to tell CCP how to macromanage their company.
You can tell CCP what you would like to see in game all you want. Have fun with it.
People get really upset at hearing this for some reason, I suppose passion for the game. So tell them what you want in game. Vehemently. Make a thread with a quarter million likes.
But as soon as you tell them how to do it, you are crossing the line.
I.E. let developers develop. Tell them what you want to see developed. As long as its not gold ammo or bypasses industry, I could give 2 *****. Let the managers manage. If you can manage better than them, become one. I don't want them to continue to assign all of their devs to things other than eve. If they continue to do that they will continue to put out crap expansions and the game will suffer. I am perfectly within my rights to say this. Why would you even suggest people do not have a *right* to say this?
You don't know what devs or employees were hired for for what jobs. You dont know what resources were allocated to what tasks and in what timeframe.
In short, you have as much right to tell CCP management how to do their job as I have to tell you to do yours. |
Clolo
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
Very well put. While I'm not up there yet in skill points, I keep looking at what's ahead and the outlook isn't so good. Every MMO, even a sandbox one like EVE, you need something better and different to progress to. |
Cassidy Dee
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Clearly taking an (un) official poll on the eve online forums - where bashing CCP is the 'cool thing to do' - will give you true to life opinions of the vast majority of players. +1! |
Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
28
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Not really sure what the point of discussing unspecified "grave concerns" is.
I'm not being difficult but we have no clue what these concerns relate to. We can for sure take a stab at it and say "CCP are off on one of their ::awesome:: trips which they NEVER finish" but we don't know.
I think the basic problem is and will continue to be that the higher echelons of CCP are not there by merit. They believe they are right and this summer's fiasco was just a misunderstanding.
torfi knows that's not what it was - he said to Jade that "we were probably too stubborn" but he knows when its time to admit that you screwed up. I have no confidence at all that Zulu et al believe anything other than "we didn't communicate it right".
So until you guys on CSM specify the grave concerns you have there isn't a lot of point in this. |
Captain Hindsite
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm a fairly new player (about 6 months in). Here's the thing that completely blows my mind about this game: the utter lack of regular balance tweaks and fixes. It's insane. If necessary, every patch should contain small, iterative tweaks of ship and race balance. I don't want to just hurf blurf about how easy this must be; frankly, I have no idea whether it's trivially easy or excessively difficult. But here's the thing - it doesn't friggin matter how hard it is, because it's absolutely imperative that such things are done. Period. Gallente, Hybrids, Dramiel, POSes, the SCAP absurdity - these are things that a dedicated, competent MMO producer consistently and frequently works on to ensure a quality game experience for it's paying customers. Yet CCP has ignored these issues for, in some cases, years.
As a new player, there's really one thing that's kept me coming back - the POTENTIAL of this game, and the universe in which it exists. That's it. As is, the game feels stale, staid, broken and boring. But my god, how good this game could (and should!) be. And that's the conundrum for the playerbase. Most everyone acknowledges these problems (with the exception of the truly dedicated fanbois), but it's so hard to leave because there's nothing else out there quite like Eve. As CCP has come to realize, however, it's getting easier and easier to do so for a lot of people. |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
43
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
what ever happens in teh next 6-8 montsh. i want to be able to tell the people i know that have quit eve this:
' well ccp have fixed almost all of the issue, the interface for industry works now, sov isnt such a ballache grind, moms now have there place, there are hardly any bugs now and this summer expansion patch notes look great'
what i fear i will be telling them is:
' **** it im done, ccp introduced more half arse crap in the winter expansion, its not finished and you know them, never ******* will be finished. the 2 bugs they fixed are back and nothing has really changed, pos are still ******* bad, sov grind is stil la grind and they have dropped back into the soon mentality'
i know what i want to tell them. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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Crasniya
Dragon's Legion of New Eden
3
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
The CSM statement makes it sound like nearly the sole focus should be on bugfixes and rebalances. I can't agree with that. While I agree CCP's direction has been a bit off, and I do like more FiS for sure, I feel new features is what makes an MMO worth continuing to play years after I started. The same old gets boring. |
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