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Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 19:51:00 -
[61] - Quote
Just to be clear, these are closest to my heart:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:* The "little things" and Team Gridlock initiatives should receive additional resources. * CCP should listen to the wishes of the community, who have repeatedly indicated which issues are most important to them via crowdsourcing.
Also.
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
I have a fair deal more skill points than that and I still have stuff that I haven't done in EvE yet. You have a long way to go youngling. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Monger Man
D.S.A.
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 20:01:00 -
[62] - Quote
Alexandra Alt wrote:Monger Man wrote: I hate and take offense to the lazy statement. I'm anything but lazy with dscan. And any time anyone defends the way it works either with you're lazy, or the servers simply cannot handle the traffic is simply defending a system because they are used to the way it works. There must be a way to have the dscan update, keep some skill involved in using it, but remove the horrendous amount of clicking it requires. And don't defend it with "server load", I'm sure the developers can figure something out. They have the overview for gods sake, yes I know thats "on grid". But if you had to press a button to update overview for the last upteen years you'd probably defend that as well with "it takes skillz".
Sorry if it offended you, IMO having a pet peeve about such a feature to the point of not understanding why it's like that and can't be changed into something 'automatic' can only be classified as lazyness. About comparing overview with dscan you simply can't, overview is done simply spamming your game client with everything on grid, while dscan can't work like that because you have angle and distance as a filter, I would got quite technical in the subject but you don't seem to be educated enough to realise the implications of implementing such a feature server and network wide in order to prevent exploitation in the client side, mind you I'm not trying to insult you or anything, you'll just have to trust me as if it would be a dev telling you this exactly the same way, I just happen to work in the same business and know first hand what implications your little feature request would impact on the whole scheme of things.
Oh really? Ok we know there are nodes in a cluster. We can postulate that the nodes keep track of objects loaded into there control. They should be keeping track of grids under there control. You shouldn't have to make a database query to get what is in system. Ask the node for grids and objects in the direction of the scan. The node should only return to the client what is available within that scan, not everything under its control.
Now under that setup, you are doing queries against memory (theoretically possible in sql, but still more overhead) speeding up the query significantly. You should not be able to get any more info than you should because it was not made available to you.
There is no Technical reason that the dscan system cannot be made more efficient, either by removing sql calls and connections from the routine, or some other (and probably numerous since I don't have full knowledge of the systems) routines.
How long it would take to implement is another story. But if you're a good developer you would know that any problem can be solved. Oh wait you probably write C# under windows. I'm sorry, yes then you're stuck with what you have. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
134
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 20:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
Gallente pleasure hub is missing from the list. Careless CSM work. I remember this when it is time to vote again *grin* Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
Mane Frehm
No.Mercy Merciless.
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 20:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
I will make one point...and its the same point I've made for quite some time.
The richness of EVE is not just from the delivery by CCP of exciting/interesting new features that are well done, or from iterating on existing features that need fixes or improvement. It comes from the contributions and creativity of the community, and that only happens when people are motivated to spend time, energy and money in game and out of game.
That motivation has been dying....and while new and/or iterated features for FiS will help, that's not enough. So yes - improve what exists, create new content BUT ensure that you engage your customers as you do so, and explicitly put resources in place to encourage and support those who help bring life to EVE.
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Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 21:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
i do believe the time for action is upon us once again....mass unsubs and jita riots should be the task of the day. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
43
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 21:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
Does "Iterating on existing content" and "Adding new features only if they iterate on existing content" include finishing WiS and adding establishments, contraband and players in space shooting each other over contraband? CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. |
Max Torps
Nomadic Conglomerate
1
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Posted - 2011.09.23 23:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
For a long time I thought crowdsourcing was the way to go, it gives CCP an idea of where to focus some of their resource with issues highlighted directly from the playerbase rather than seemingly anonymous focus groups. However, the method of crowdsourcing leave it open to metagaming by large alliances/corps. On saying that, they are the ones putting the effort in to making their pet issues a priority. So it would seem, arguably, crowdsourcing works. If you care, use it! Given that there is no real viable alternative then by definition it is the solution we have at the moment.
According to various dev blogs and posts as well as mentions in CSM minutes, CCP also look at their own list of issues and compare/contrast with those on the crowdsourcing lists so there we have a combined approach.
To answer concerns about development of Incarna, now that Incarna is live, some issues surrounding that can also be added to the crowdsourcing lists.
Regardless of the source of the list of issues though, all of this is for nothing if you only have scant resources assigned to it. There are issues from as far back as 2008 if not older which, to a new player looking at it, looks awful.
So while I applaud this effort with cautious optimism, I am also wary we have been here before. I hope that the introspection mentioned in CCP Zulu's Dev Blog results in some action and we see some much needed love, not just being applied to FiS, but to Eve Online as a whole rather than a massive diversion of resource to other projects,which have had their own equally important business imperative. It's a difficult juggling act but the business imperative must now also focus on player retention, attracting new players and welcoming back old ones to ensure CCP can fund the other projects.
Starfleet Comms Podcast - Your journey through the Eve Universe! http://www.starfleetcomms.com
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Bob Niac
freelancers inc Territorial Claim Unit
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 23:06:00 -
[68] - Quote
Way I see .. I love EVE. Yes there is a lot of broken stuff. But guess what? I don't see or care about half of it. I take the CSM and other loud drums and derive what I will from it.
If you guys think that leaving the game in stasis just to fix some bugs or because your flavor of the moth ship doesn't work the way you want ... I would imagine you have another thing coming. You want a hell of a lot, you want it now, and you want it basically for free. Guess what? Life isn't all internet space ships. If you want to fix things that bad, then apply to CCP.
Let CCP figure out what's best for CCP. If making another MMO and devoting resources to it makes EVE a stronger brand .. then do it. If adding n feature to EVE makes it a more appealing game to its target audience's real life friends ... by all means. Because these are the things CCP has to do to GET the resources to fix the game.
I don't think I know much about the world. I wouldn't claim to either. But when I look at the capital invested solely on hardware... I cringe. Why? Because they literally poor hundreds of thousands of dollars on back-end and servers PER YEAR. Pardon my language but that **** ain't cheap. Plus they are looking into HPC and other hardware solutions to keep up with the demands we put on the nodes.
You want them to fix the code? Last I checked they have been doing so from the ground up for several expansions now. Unless they feel that re-coding the SOL node system in it's entirety is a good thing (last I heard this would take 12 -14 months or more) then that stays. There are many examples .. check the dev blogs. From what some of the suggestion from the community I have read .. some people are asking to make an entire new game. That just doesn't go well.
Shiny new textures? Check Load balances issues? Getting there. UI? Almost there. Lag? 2000 people in one system? 1k on an RFed node with little lag?
Ok fix stuff .. fine. But don't fix what isn't broken. CSM is great, but at this point I think it may eventually be more harm then good. CCP might want to reconsider how they structure it, Too few people with too much power.
Step back and take a breath guys. There has been a lot of **** flung recently. And I think those who rant on the forum and those who have a direct line to CCP need to realize that they have a responsibility to not be complete asses about how they respond to events in EVE. It trickles down to the masses. And as I said before, there was was a lot of pounding on empty drums. Things were sorted, lies and half truths were revealed on both sides.
So yes fix the game. But please don't shoot yourself in the foot because the playerbase gets stagnant or bored.
Quick and cheap access to PVP, be it re-orginizing gate or adding arenas pr whatever. EVE is at its heart an awesome non-"core" game. So why are we striving to be in that core? WoW is dieing because they changed the game so much from the beginning that people are finding other avenues.
Whatever .. I have a feeling this is going to get shut down as a fanboi post or something... there is no point to go on. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
31
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 23:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
-1 for CSM being idiotic.
The players don't have any idea yet on what CCPs new priorities are. Yet you are asking them to agree with your views that these priorities are ill advised before we have any information to make such a call.
You could have at least waited for this information to become public before starting to stir the pot again.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 23:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
THIS!!!
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Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 00:27:00 -
[71] - Quote
I believe that CCP should favor iteration of existing content over new content but not necessarily strongly favor it. New content is what keeps this game fresh and on top of things. Without new content EvE will grow stagnant and new subscribers will dwindle. Yes...please fix the broken stuff. Please further develope and balance current mechanics and content but do not stop introducing new things and new content.
I gave it a +1 anyway.
And why we need 2 threads where only one is needed is completely idiotic. |
Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 00:39:00 -
[72] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:-1 for CSM being idiotic.
The players don't have any idea yet on what CCPs new priorities are. Yet you are asking them to agree with your views that these priorities are ill advised before we have any information to make such a call.
You could have at least waited for this information to become public before starting to stir the pot again.
^ this, times 100 |
Alexandra Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 01:52:00 -
[73] - Quote
Monger Man wrote:Alexandra Alt wrote:Monger Man wrote: I hate and take offense to the lazy statement. I'm anything but lazy with dscan. And any time anyone defends the way it works either with you're lazy, or the servers simply cannot handle the traffic is simply defending a system because they are used to the way it works. There must be a way to have the dscan update, keep some skill involved in using it, but remove the horrendous amount of clicking it requires. And don't defend it with "server load", I'm sure the developers can figure something out. They have the overview for gods sake, yes I know thats "on grid". But if you had to press a button to update overview for the last upteen years you'd probably defend that as well with "it takes skillz".
Sorry if it offended you, IMO having a pet peeve about such a feature to the point of not understanding why it's like that and can't be changed into something 'automatic' can only be classified as lazyness. About comparing overview with dscan you simply can't, overview is done simply spamming your game client with everything on grid, while dscan can't work like that because you have angle and distance as a filter, I would got quite technical in the subject but you don't seem to be educated enough to realise the implications of implementing such a feature server and network wide in order to prevent exploitation in the client side, mind you I'm not trying to insult you or anything, you'll just have to trust me as if it would be a dev telling you this exactly the same way, I just happen to work in the same business and know first hand what implications your little feature request would impact on the whole scheme of things. Oh really? Ok we know there are nodes in a cluster. We can postulate that the nodes keep track of objects loaded into there control. They should be keeping track of grids under there control. You shouldn't have to make a database query to get what is in system. Ask the node for grids and objects in the direction of the scan. The node should only return to the client what is available within that scan, not everything under its control. Now under that setup, you are doing queries against memory (theoretically possible in sql, but still more overhead) speeding up the query significantly. You should not be able to get any more info than you should because it was not made available to you. There is no Technical reason that the dscan system cannot be made more efficient, either by removing sql calls and connections from the routine, or some other (and probably numerous since I don't have full knowledge of the systems) routines. How long it would take to implement is another story. But if you're a good developer you would know that any problem can be solved. Oh wait you probably write C# under windows. I'm sorry, yes then you're stuck with what you have.
(sorry am drunk can't be bothred to reply politically correctly)
You sir are another of the clueless dumasses that has no idea what isdevelopeiing even drunk I can tgell you you're just another of the ones ugnored by the devs because you bable useless crap.... |
non judgement
Evolved from the Wreck Flying Burning Ships Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 02:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
I should have put it in here... (from the CSM Statement regarding CCP refocus +1 thread)
Devil's advocate:
The funny thing about this is that if the game fails now.. all of you are just as much to blame as CCP is. Like driving someone elses car off a cliff?
You guys lose a game. CCP Employees lose their jobs (or maybe just start a new game).
Lets hope you guys know what you're doing... I don't know this for sure but I'm guessing that none of you have experience in making an MMO successful.
I'd rather let CCP keep doing what they believe is best. It is their business after all.
(I guess this refocus is what they believe is best) |
Wolfcan
EVE University Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 02:25:00 -
[75] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote: If I am dumb, your stupidity is legendary. I already agreed to what you said. Development of the game, not the management of CCP.
Those are 2 things that are unambiguously not the same thing. ******* derp.
Um, dude. Management and development are inextricably linked. i.e. If the Management directs the development team away from EVE and onto Dust and WoD, then the Management has stopped the development of the game. So, if we are only allowed to talk about development (according to you), we aren't allowed to talk about the managment practices that negatively effect that devlopement?
Yeah right.... |
Wolfcan
EVE University Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 02:33:00 -
[76] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:-1 for CSM being idiotic.
The players don't have any idea yet on what CCPs new priorities are. Yet you are asking them to agree with your views that these priorities are ill advised before we have any information to make such a call.
You could have at least waited for this information to become public before starting to stir the pot again.
Ah, dude. CSM is privy to vastly more information than the general public. They aren't 'waiting' like we are for the DevBlog. Further, the only type of lobbying CCP seems to understand is massive pressure, forums, media. If you take the pressure off for 1 second CCP will just go back to developing DUST and WoD. This is truly the strangest managed company I have ever come across. |
Riggs Droput
Mad Bombers Guns and Alcohol
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 02:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
I would like to see CCP refocus on their current game before adding in anything new.
Once they fix that come back and start putting in new features but do not do them half ass. Don't release something half done and say we will come back and fix it later. YOU NEVER DO CCP.
Either complete the new feature with testing before releasing it or don't release it at all. We are supposed to be playing a fully finished game and half the time I feel like I'm beta testing your software for you.
Riggs I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees |
Obviously Confidential
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:19:00 -
[78] - Quote
I stopped playing eve about two months ago, find it amusing that with all the crap and the heaps of failure on the part of ccp, they now start paying attention to their own medicrity and call a "defining moment" doing something about it....
Subscriber numbers down, pcu records ages away, mass protests, bugs everywhere, unfinished gameplay, no development resources, emo vampires and sucky fps console garbage....
CCP: you suck so bad these past years that people prefer the chinese server these days, the one without all the failure you added these past expansions.
I suggest toning down the megalomania and just start working on some above average stuff. No need for defining moments, just be competent and not med+¡ocre with delusions of grandeur.
You are not awesome. You suck. Wake up and start working. For your own sake.
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Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:22:00 -
[79] - Quote
Obviously Confidential wrote:I stopped playing eve about two months ago, find it amusing that with all the crap and the heaps of failure on the part of ccp, they now start paying attention to their own medicrity and call a "defining moment" doing something about it....
Subscriber numbers down, pcu records ages away, mass protests, bugs everywhere, unfinished gameplay, no development resources, emo vampires and sucky fps console garbage....
CCP: you suck so bad these past years that people prefer the chinese server these days, the one without all the failure you added these past expansions.
I suggest toning down the megalomania and just start working on some above average stuff. No need for defining moments, just be competent and not med+¡ocre with delusions of grandeur.
You are not awesome. You suck. Wake up and start working. For your own sake.
What would we do without such insight on these forums?
... |
Kenshek
Loc-Nar Support Services Rura-Penthe
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:29:00 -
[80] - Quote
I have an extensive software development background and can tell you that you dont want 100% of development effort to be FIS based products. I'm not privy to the inner sanctums of CCP, but in general they should have 30% of their dev effort in network loading support, 30% new content, 40% fixing the things that are not working well in the overall system. You can cut those 3 high-level subcatagories.
My point is things like Corporate Roles, POS problems, whatever happened to the evolvement of the old Cosmos missions, why has the old research agents not evolved? I could go on and on about existing content that has flattened out or is outright broken.
My experiance has taught me to look at what your clients are doing with your software. Then when you see they stopped using that portion, find out why. We in general dont have the big picture data of what areas are being used in eve, but CCP does. How many player hours are going to what areas of eve? Tthen if you see a general player drop off in an area find out why and then determine if the content should be allowed to go flat or improved.
I do concur that space needs to be expanded again dramatically all of eve space is getting pretty dense.
-Ken |
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Riggs Droput
Mad Bombers Guns and Alcohol
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:33:00 -
[81] - Quote
Kenshek wrote:
I do concur that space needs to be expanded again dramatically all of eve space is getting pretty dense.
Until I see 5-10 players in every system I visit space is not getting close to being dense. I can fly thru null and never see anyone. Maybe in empire its getting crowded but that is because everyone is moving back since there is no reason to be in null unless you like getting hotdroped or blobs.
Personally I think there should be less space so we have more people jammed in a tighter area. More fight's more targets more fun.
Riggs I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees |
mkint
45
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
Kenshek wrote:I have an extensive software development background and can tell you that you dont want 100% of development effort to be FIS based products. I'm not privy to the inner sanctums of CCP, but in general they should have 30% of their dev effort in network loading support, 30% new content, 40% fixing the things that are not working well in the overall system. You can cut those 3 high-level subcatagories.
My point is things like Corporate Roles, POS problems, whatever happened to the evolvement of the old Cosmos missions, why has the old research agents not evolved? I could go on and on about existing content that has flattened out or is outright broken.
My experiance has taught me to look at what your clients are doing with your software. Then when you see they stopped using that portion, find out why. We in general dont have the big picture data of what areas are being used in eve, but CCP does. How many player hours are going to what areas of eve? Tthen if you see a general player drop off in an area find out why and then determine if the content should be allowed to go flat or improved.
I do concur that space needs to be expanded again dramatically all of eve space is getting pretty dense.
-Ken
The problem is that CCP had 2 teams working on real EVE... that's about 10-20 people out of 600 employees. That's team BFF and Gridlock. Okay, not all 600 employees are necessarily developers... security guys do security, economics guys watch the market, lunchladies dish up sloppy joes. You've got everyone else doing GI Joes and Barbies.
And the thing is, 30% network 30% new content 40% fixes is still around 5X as many people as they've had working on EVE for the past 2 1/2 years, but even such, those categories can overlap quite a bit... for example, adding a super-carrier-killing-battleship will reduce network load (fighterbomber lag killed 0.0) fixes a problem (broken game balance) and adds something new (completely changes the nature of 0.0 warfare.)
That one change alone can fix 80% of the problem with EVE right now, except it would not fix the problem with CCP. I look forward to a day when players don't feel the need to gripe on the forums in an attempt to babysit CCP. |
Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 06:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
Kenshek wrote:I have an extensive software development background
html/php/xml/css dont count....
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
49
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 07:04:00 -
[84] - Quote
Sable Moran wrote:Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for. I have a fair deal more skill points than that and I still have stuff that I haven't done in EvE yet. You have a long way to go youngling.
while I am in the 120< mil SP club, and I do agree with you, some extra content wouldn't hurt. hell, like I saw on another thread, having the 2 expansions per year splitted in 1 for mostly iterations and another for mostly new content would be an interesting to develop this game further.
....then again, iterations might bring fresh content themselves (in the form of fixed and finished content), so who knows. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc The Kadeshi
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 07:33:00 -
[85] - Quote
A dedicated balance TEAM. Could you imagine where this game would be if they had that from the start? |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
50
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 07:50:00 -
[86] - Quote
van Uber wrote:A dedicated balance TEAM. Could you imagine where this game would be if they had that from the start? while I do agree that a dedicated balance team would probably be a good idea, it must be said that it's very hard to come up with balance while maintaining status quo on four different types of playstyles that each of the races cater to.
there is also one of the problems of being a sandbox where all of the sudden somebody uses something in a way the devs haven't anticipated, IE: somebody used a pitchfork as an arrow. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
84
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 07:51:00 -
[87] - Quote
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
I say this to newbies all the time, and perhaps you need to hear it too: EVE Online is a sandbox game, not a theme park game. You set your own goals, it's not the game's responsibility to give you new goals. If the only purpose of the game for you is to train more SP and have more things that you have to do in order to "progress", perhaps you should take up Farmville? Down the path of "give veterans more skills to train" lies the dangerous land of Mudflation.
I would prefer that FW and null sec sov warfare were sorted out, instead of having new ships, new features or fancy clothes. I wold prefer to see the UI turned into a game UI rather than it's present "excel in space" look, over having T3 frigates or battleships to fly.
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Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
21
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 07:56:00 -
[88] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:I would prefer that FW and null sec sov warfare were sorted out, instead of having new ships, new features or fancy clothes. I wold prefer to see the UI turned into a game UI rather than it's present "excel in space" look, over having T3 frigates or battleships to fly.
100% behind that. I like new stuff too but... look at CQ, look at the ships and then look at the UI...
Incarna? Sure! Cool! Can we get the rest of the game on par first?
We shall see, soon... |
mkint
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 08:00:00 -
[89] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: I wold prefer to see the UI turned into a game UI rather than it's present "excel in space" look, over having T3 frigates or battleships to fly.
You really trust CCP to create a new UI without completely decimating the functionality of the current one? Current UI has problems, yeah, but Excel is a lot more popular than EVE... a focus on functionality might not be a bad thing. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
70
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 08:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
I was once a worker. My supervisors, my managers and the owners were all idiots.
I became a supervisor. My workers, my manager and my owners were idiots.
I then became a manager. My workers, my supervisors and my owners were all idiots.
I got so sick of it, I started my own business. Problem is, my workers, my supervisors, my managers and my customers were all idiots.
I'm now unemployed and I am not wealthy.
But I was never an idiot.
I feel for you all. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. |
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