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Trebor Daehdoow
Sane Industries Inc.
177
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
This thread is for discussion of the CSM Statement regarding CCP refocusing.
Please keep the main thread clear of discussion, +1 posts and likes only. CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism! CSM 6 Activities Summary | My CSM blog |
Khagah Mishi
4
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
I cannot agree with nor 'like' this part of the statement: "It is the strong belief of the CSM that if CCP refocuses their efforts on delivering what the community wants, they will be able to regain the faith and trust of the community, and subscriber numbers will resume their steady growth." |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
39
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
do not add anything til things/interfaces/pos/sov/ship balance/scaps are fixed please. you game is broken currently, adding more broken shite is not the way forward.
by do not add anything, i mean exactly that. no moving mins, no adding small holding, no anything but fixing what we ******* have now.
btw the link to this is broken in the other +1 post CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
29
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
What was sayed at todays meeting with CCP Zulu? |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
42
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
so the other thread about this subject is the approval thread? and this is the discussion thread?
no wonder people hate the CSM
sorry, I understand the nees for a vote thread of sorts, but liking a thread only likes the poster of the thread and I personally feel you are abusing the like feature by telling the people who agree to like the thread, but threads are not ranked by likes, posters are.
can you see what I'm getting at, its less of an opinion about the post and more an opinion of the poster. The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Zagam
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
97
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
If CCP fleshed out stuff that was inexplicably dropped mid-development (faction warfare, sov revamp), and fixed the glaring game issues (supercaps, sov, neglect of lowsec), many people who have previously left EVE would return en masse. Also, it would help attract new people. I couldn't agree with the statements made by Trebor more, and look forward to CCP's response (both in writing and in actions) to the concerns raised by Trebor. |
AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
8
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
If I have said it once I have said it a thousand time, neither the CSM nor the player base has the right nor the proper information to try to tell CCP how to macromanage their company.
You can tell CCP what you would like to see in game all you want. Have fun with it.
People get really upset at hearing this for some reason, I suppose passion for the game. So tell them what you want in game. Vehemently. Make a thread with a quarter million likes.
But as soon as you tell them how to do it, you are crossing the line.
I.E. let developers develop. Tell them what you want to see developed. As long as its not gold ammo or bypasses industry, I could give 2 *****. Let the managers manage. If you can manage better than them, become one. |
Sexy Moped
The Drones Club
4
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Salpun wrote:What was sayed at todays meeting with CCP Zulu?
This:
CCP Zulu wrote:Watch this space.
Sorry to be sarcastic but not much else to say really. The clouds are growing and multiplying. your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
-The Mittani 17.07.2011 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1549785&page=6#158 |
Trebor Daehdoow
Sane Industries Inc.
202
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Salpun wrote:What was sayed at todays meeting with CCP Zulu?
Due to some unexpected family issues, we did not meet with Zulu today, though we had a long discussion with Xhagen.
We expect to talk to Zulu again early next week. CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism! CSM 6 Activities Summary | My CSM blog |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
170
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for. CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog What does CSM 6 do? |
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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Interesting technique. While I agree in general with what was stated, I will not +1 the thread. Where was the "general" agreement solicitation when w-space nerfs were pushed forward between the CSM and CCP?
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Sexy Moped
The Drones Club
4
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
Can i +1 this? your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
-The Mittani 17.07.2011 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1549785&page=6#158 |
Solstice Project
Freedom Inc.
6
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Watch this ___________________ .
The reason for your TWO CSM-thread is way beyond me, and i actually do not care about you, so i'll never ever give you a like.
I totally agree with red-hotlips.
This feels really, really unnecessary, because we already have a statement from CCP, you guys actually already have plenty of support AND YOU KNOW IT, so this now feels more like HARVESTING than anything else.
There are people that believe you are doing good work and i can only agree with them to some point, maybe, but on the other hand - in my mind - the abbreviation actually means...
**** Sucking Morons.
There, you had my attention. Now get back to work and stop whoring "likes". |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
40
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
i also have toons with over 80mil sp's, but that dosnt mean i wouldnt be happy to let 1 expansion go by that was just a major over haul of all teh broken crap we have now.
whats the point of new shiney stuff, if that new shiney stuff is broken, half arsed and incompleat?
the list of half finsihed broken stuff is so dam long, it would be like a new game to get it all finished and fixed CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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Abrazzar
112
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
I will reserve my +1 for the time after the winter expansion, when words fade and reality sets in. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Raid'En
Apprentice Innovations
37
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:Any new content should be directly related to providing support for iteration of existing content. For example (this is not a proposal, just an example for illustration purposes), an expansion of space could be used to provide opportunities for small sovholding, and materials for new POS structures and manufacturing. that's not even an example, that's the reality of what we want :P
this stuff would be iteration + shiny at the same time, that's the best path. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
46
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:If I have said it once I have said it a thousand time, neither the CSM nor the player base has the right nor the proper information to try to tell CCP how to macromanage their company.
You can tell CCP what you would like to see in game all you want. Have fun with it.
People get really upset at hearing this for some reason, I suppose passion for the game. So tell them what you want in game. Vehemently. Make a thread with a quarter million likes.
But as soon as you tell them how to do it, you are crossing the line.
I.E. let developers develop. Tell them what you want to see developed. As long as its not gold ammo or bypasses industry, I could give 2 *****. Let the managers manage. If you can manage better than them, become one.
I don't want them to continue to assign all of their devs to things other than eve. If they continue to do that they will continue to put out crap expansions and the game will suffer. I am perfectly within my rights to say this.
Why would you even suggest people do not have a *right* to say this? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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EMPstrike
Insurrection Inc
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
While i DO agree with the statment in the other thread, i totally disagree that CCP should not focus on new things (which i assumed referred to walkin in stations)
Before Incarna's release there were tons of people posting complaining how CCP promised Walking in Stations for years but never delivered. Which to me showed they really want it.
I have a theory that most people only post in dev threads when they have something to complain about, as the area of discussion on specific issues always change when something is changed or released, and the input is by a vast majority, always negative.
I propose a survey IN GAME amongst the players IN GAME is taken on issues, as alot of people who are busy enjoying the game have no reason to visit the forums other than discussing ship fits or missions or something.
What is it, like 25,000 individual subscribers to the game? when a dev blog is released, after 1 week, its like maybe 3 or 400 people, maybe a bit more, reply to it, and only about 75% of that is negative, and most of that negativity isnt even game related (comments on CCP's competancy, etc)
Have a survey in game, and when making this survey, bear in mind some people have several accounts and they feel they should use them all to make thier own voice bigger.
Find a way to get 1 survey per person, and im fairly sure youll see vastly differing opinions.
EDIT: As a side note and example, ive been a memebr here since 2006, and this is the first day ive used the forums to voice opinions. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
18
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'd love to hear an honest assessment of where Incarna development is actually at. If it's close to being deliverable I'd like to see a third development of development resources for walking in stations, a third for new space content and a third for maintenance and improvement of existing space content. If it's not close then I'm just really disappointed.
The players are calling out CCP for real issues but I also agree with this quote from Steve Jobs:
Quote:You canGÇÖt just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, theyGÇÖll want something new.
Overall, just depressing. I'll keep watching this space and keep my hopes up that I like what appears. Rees Noturana // Professional Treasure Hunter |
Grateler
The People's Liberation Front of Offugen
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:If I have said it once I have said it a thousand time, neither the CSM nor the player base has the right nor the proper information to try to tell CCP how to macromanage their company.
You can tell CCP what you would like to see in game all you want. Have fun with it.
People get really upset at hearing this for some reason, I suppose passion for the game. So tell them what you want in game. Vehemently. Make a thread with a quarter million likes.
But as soon as you tell them how to do it, you are crossing the line.
I.E. let developers develop. Tell them what you want to see developed. As long as its not gold ammo or bypasses industry, I could give 2 *****. Let the managers manage. If you can manage better than them, become one.
No one is telling the how to do anything but telling them what needs fixing.
Not sure where your comments are coming from....
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Trainwreck McGee
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1 CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Cozmik R5
Dock 94
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
I do not want to +1 a discussion. I want to +1 actual results.
Here's to hoping I can +1 something! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try. |
Grateler
The People's Liberation Front of Offugen
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Whilst its a good step CCP are taking to focus on what people want my concern is that you cant please all the people all of the time.
Whatever they choose to work on it wont make everyone happy and will still cause others to be irate. For example, one often heard complaint when incarna launched was not that FiS was ignored, but that there was only one skin for CQ, ie people wanted CCP to work on more pointless CQ nonsense!
As long as they are working on the Eve Spaceships game and not wasting time on stuff like CQ which offers no real new gameplay and improves the existing FiS stuff Im happy, but many will still complain. |
AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cearain wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:If I have said it once I have said it a thousand time, neither the CSM nor the player base has the right nor the proper information to try to tell CCP how to macromanage their company.
You can tell CCP what you would like to see in game all you want. Have fun with it.
People get really upset at hearing this for some reason, I suppose passion for the game. So tell them what you want in game. Vehemently. Make a thread with a quarter million likes.
But as soon as you tell them how to do it, you are crossing the line.
I.E. let developers develop. Tell them what you want to see developed. As long as its not gold ammo or bypasses industry, I could give 2 *****. Let the managers manage. If you can manage better than them, become one. I don't want them to continue to assign all of their devs to things other than eve. If they continue to do that they will continue to put out crap expansions and the game will suffer. I am perfectly within my rights to say this. Why would you even suggest people do not have a *right* to say this?
You don't know what devs or employees were hired for for what jobs. You dont know what resources were allocated to what tasks and in what timeframe.
In short, you have as much right to tell CCP management how to do their job as I have to tell you to do yours. |
Clolo
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
Very well put. While I'm not up there yet in skill points, I keep looking at what's ahead and the outlook isn't so good. Every MMO, even a sandbox one like EVE, you need something better and different to progress to. |
Cassidy Dee
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Clearly taking an (un) official poll on the eve online forums - where bashing CCP is the 'cool thing to do' - will give you true to life opinions of the vast majority of players. +1! |
Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 16:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Not really sure what the point of discussing unspecified "grave concerns" is.
I'm not being difficult but we have no clue what these concerns relate to. We can for sure take a stab at it and say "CCP are off on one of their ::awesome:: trips which they NEVER finish" but we don't know.
I think the basic problem is and will continue to be that the higher echelons of CCP are not there by merit. They believe they are right and this summer's fiasco was just a misunderstanding.
torfi knows that's not what it was - he said to Jade that "we were probably too stubborn" but he knows when its time to admit that you screwed up. I have no confidence at all that Zulu et al believe anything other than "we didn't communicate it right".
So until you guys on CSM specify the grave concerns you have there isn't a lot of point in this. |
Captain Hindsite
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 17:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm a fairly new player (about 6 months in). Here's the thing that completely blows my mind about this game: the utter lack of regular balance tweaks and fixes. It's insane. If necessary, every patch should contain small, iterative tweaks of ship and race balance. I don't want to just hurf blurf about how easy this must be; frankly, I have no idea whether it's trivially easy or excessively difficult. But here's the thing - it doesn't friggin matter how hard it is, because it's absolutely imperative that such things are done. Period. Gallente, Hybrids, Dramiel, POSes, the SCAP absurdity - these are things that a dedicated, competent MMO producer consistently and frequently works on to ensure a quality game experience for it's paying customers. Yet CCP has ignored these issues for, in some cases, years.
As a new player, there's really one thing that's kept me coming back - the POTENTIAL of this game, and the universe in which it exists. That's it. As is, the game feels stale, staid, broken and boring. But my god, how good this game could (and should!) be. And that's the conundrum for the playerbase. Most everyone acknowledges these problems (with the exception of the truly dedicated fanbois), but it's so hard to leave because there's nothing else out there quite like Eve. As CCP has come to realize, however, it's getting easier and easier to do so for a lot of people. |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
43
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 17:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
what ever happens in teh next 6-8 montsh. i want to be able to tell the people i know that have quit eve this:
' well ccp have fixed almost all of the issue, the interface for industry works now, sov isnt such a ballache grind, moms now have there place, there are hardly any bugs now and this summer expansion patch notes look great'
what i fear i will be telling them is:
' **** it im done, ccp introduced more half arse crap in the winter expansion, its not finished and you know them, never ******* will be finished. the 2 bugs they fixed are back and nothing has really changed, pos are still ******* bad, sov grind is stil la grind and they have dropped back into the soon mentality'
i know what i want to tell them. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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Crasniya
Dragon's Legion of New Eden
3
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
The CSM statement makes it sound like nearly the sole focus should be on bugfixes and rebalances. I can't agree with that. While I agree CCP's direction has been a bit off, and I do like more FiS for sure, I feel new features is what makes an MMO worth continuing to play years after I started. The same old gets boring. |
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Myxx
Atropos Group
57
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
I posted what I wanted elsewhere, but to rehash it because i think its what needs to be done before any truly new content or more microtransaction **** is added:
Things i want done in no particular order:
implement establishments implement the rest of the captains quarters, and their larger versions expand on wormhole space ship balance give soundwave more resources, full stop. give him whatever he needs fix 'crimewatch' and highsec security mechanics to be less stupid. put torfifrans back in the director's seat put oveur back in the director's seat get rid of CCP Zulu - he has pissed people off too many times cancel resources for WoD until EVE shines like it needs to get rid of the nex store make those faction warfare people stop crying, throw them a bone or two ffs nuke nullsec powerblocs to hell and back, i wont fly out there because its seriously owned by one or two major powerblocs by and large implement BFF's 'smallholdings' idea add another 10,000 star systems give the live events team a hell of a lot more resources fire ccp zulu and whoever else thought of the microtransactions idea, they're terrible. Fix pos's. make them less of a pain in the ass (possibly in addition to compliment smallholdings?) make all of my gallentean skills something other than worthless/pointless |
Monger Man
D.S.A.
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 17:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
One thing that needs alot of attention is the FiS UI.
The directional scanner is a pain in the ass (click..click..click.) Constant clicking just to stay updated with whats around you. The overload buttons on modules are sadistically small. The overview though functional still has alot to be desired. And the hot key system just doesn't make sense, I think this is one of the few games I feel more comfortable clicking everything than hitting hot keys.
The feed back to the user on combat information is terrible. Being a pod pilot you'd think you'd know why you're guns aren't hitting.
Need more feedback on ranges, tracking, speeds. I know as you pvp more you just start to realize whats happening, but new players end up scratching there heads wondering why something is happening. You shouldn't have to guess, It should be more instantly apparent that you're guns aren't tracking, there kitting you out of range ect..
The UI is my special pet peeve. I think the thing that bothers me the most though is the dscan. Any thing that requires constant clicking is just not good design.
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Alexandra Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Monger Man wrote:One thing that needs alot of attention is the FiS UI. The directional scanner is a pain in the ass (click..click..click.) Constant clicking just to stay updated with whats around you.
And this will never change because everytime you click it, you generate network traffic, more clicks = more traffic, hence more server load to handle your click spammage, thus they introduced the 2 second delay to avoid spamming the server to dead with useless traffic, now removing this functionality would imply a constant 'ping' I mean, the same thing as an automatic clicking, thus the 'fix' would be worse than the current implementation, where now instead of having a few ppl clicking once in a while for the scanner, you'll have everyone, automatically doing it everytime, the fix would be the killing of the server and the increase of your network traffic.
The information propagation on change wouldn't work either, server would need to save each client on each solar system scan settings for their session (requiring more memory for each client connected) and to be constantly aware and calculating when that 'ping' should be sent to each client regarding their relative positioning and scanner settings, thus introducing more server load effectively not improving something, yeah would improve your 'lazyness' to click a button when needed but would blow up the server getting back the big lag issues team gridlock has been trying to fix for a good while.
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Toshiko Kin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
I resub'd one account just to be able to like/+1 the CSM statement. I don't think that what they are saying is never do anything new again, but fix what's broken now first before adding any new stuff in that, if we are honest about CCP, will have lots of new broken bits when it's introduced. It's the current broken bits, real game breaking bugs, that are holding my enjoyment level down to somewhere between luke-warm and freezing. I'd like it to be on boil again. |
mkint
39
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ok, all this "CCP needs to fix the game" stuff sounds good, and I agree with it... But I think we're missing the target. So, let me ask... with all these demand about how CCP should allocate resources, they should do it for how long?
I think the important thing here isn't "CCP must do everything the players demand" because actually, that's kinda stupid. People, especially in large groups, are shortsighted and stupid. However, CCP has proven to be shortsighted, disconnected, and stupid.
No, I don't want CCP to do everything us players say. What I want is for CCP to stop being so goddamned stupid. I want CCP to start working for the betterment of EVE, a game about spaceships, as opposed to working for another corp jet for HIlmar, to pad folks resumes, or to enhance the mushroom trip they are on where they live in a fantasy world completely disconnected with reality.
I vote for CCP to stop doing stupid sh*t every expansion without having to be babysat. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
20
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
I think most people realize that CCP as a company MUST split its resources between its various high profile projects (DUST, WOD, EVE). There really isn't any realistic debate about that.
What is debatable is:
1: What percentage of CCP resources needs to be devoted to each of these projects. 2: Of the resources devoted to EVE, how should those resources be split between Iteration on existing content, new shiney, bug fixes, and Incarna development. Eventually the Incarna content will fall neatly within the other categories, but not yet.
No matter how they divy resources up, not everyone is going to be happy. I can live with that as long as there is a realistic, or at least well reasoned and explained, division of resources.
I want them to meet their production goals for their other products. I want them to take the final steps in making Incarna content fun and entertaining for (most) everyone. I just don't want EVE to be largely ignored in the process.
Our 18 month wait is about up. I hope that CCP is roughly on track with their predictions that now would be the time when the horn of plenty disgorges its developer resource goodies in our direction again.
I'd also really like the enough planning to go into this effort to make these projects fit into two or more categories above.
As a random example, if when redistributing resources in high, null, and WH space (in accordance with a hopefully very, very well researched plan) if you also had the rest of the solar systems in New Eden follow the "special effects" rules that they do in WH space you would thrill and challenge most every player in the EVE universe. This one addition would breath new life in to PVP of all levels, and put new and interesting challenges out there for people more interested in PVE activities.
Don't stop at killing two birds with one stone, aim to kill the whole flock.
I know, I know, much easier said than done... but it's a worthy goal to shoot for.
To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Crunchmeister
THORN Syndicate BricK sQuAD.
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 17:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
While I support CCP's recent statements, I also know they they've made such statements in the past and have never followed through. I'm hopeful that the recent player backlash, negative press and declining subscriptions is finally a clear indication that if they continue down this same path, they can finally kiss Eve goodbye in the next couple of years at most. Along with that, Dust will die too, so it's not just their flagship product they have to worry about, but its offspring as well.
Historically, it seems CCP's biggest issue is that they easily get distracted from their current projects and plans by the latest and greatest idea to be pushed down from Management. They put a ton of resources into something when it's a fresh idea. Halfway through, something shiny distracts them and they're now focusing on that instead, completely abandoning their previous project mid-stream (like FW and sov for example).
This is the culture that needs to change at CCP along with their communication with the customers and CSM. Without that, nothing changes and they can announce "changes" till the cows come home, and nothing will get fixed.
So I'm not out with my torch and pitchfork yet. I'll give CCP the benefit of the doubt one last time, since the current circumstances are very different and much more dire than they've ever been for both our beloved game and their company's livelihood. Call me pessimistic, but I'm not overly hopeful either. |
Monger Man
D.S.A.
1
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Posted - 2011.09.23 17:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
Alexandra Alt wrote:Monger Man wrote:One thing that needs alot of attention is the FiS UI. The directional scanner is a pain in the ass (click..click..click.) Constant clicking just to stay updated with whats around you.
And this will never change because everytime you click it, you generate network traffic, more clicks = more traffic, hence more server load to handle your click spammage, thus they introduced the 2 second delay to avoid spamming the server to dead with useless traffic, now removing this functionality would imply a constant 'ping' I mean, the same thing as an automatic clicking, thus the 'fix' would be worse than the current implementation, where now instead of having a few ppl clicking once in a while for the scanner, you'll have everyone, automatically doing it everytime, the fix would be the killing of the server and the increase of your network traffic. The information propagation on change wouldn't work either, server would need to save each client on each solar system scan settings for their session (requiring more memory for each client connected) and to be constantly aware and calculating when that 'ping' should be sent to each client regarding their relative positioning and scanner settings, thus introducing more server load effectively not improving something, yeah would improve your 'lazyness' to click a button when needed but would blow up the server getting back the big lag issues team gridlock has been trying to fix for a good while.
I hate and take offense to the lazy statement. I'm anything but lazy with dscan. And any time anyone defends the way it works either with you're lazy, or the servers simply cannot handle the traffic is simply defending a system because they are used to the way it works. There must be a way to have the dscan update, keep some skill involved in using it, but remove the horrendous amount of clicking it requires. And don't defend it with "server load", I'm sure the developers can figure something out. They have the overview for gods sake, yes I know thats "on grid". But if you had to press a button to update overview for the last upteen years you'd probably defend that as well with "it takes skillz".
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 17:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
in all honesty, this thread has the best approach on the new content vs iteration of old content discussion. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
132
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 17:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Giving +1 to this was really a no brainer... Anyways few comments to CCP about the subjects are in place...
Trebor Daehdoow wrote: * CCP should significantly increase the development resources being dedicated to Flying-in-Space (FiS).
In other words Incarna should be completed as side project without deadline. It will be good when it is ready and it will be ready when it is ready. You had awesome tech demo years ago but binned it and wanted to be more :awesome:. Instead you ended up having :failsome: on your hands. Don't repeat your mistakes - finish it this time and keep focus on content.
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:* CCP should strongly favor iteration of existing game content over shiny new content. *** * CCP should listen to the wishes of the community, who have repeatedly indicated which issues are most important to them via crowdsourcing. ***) Crowdsourcing has many items on top 10 which support this.
If you start listening to players and focusing on tasks what crowdsourcing results are about, more people start voting and getting involved. There is not many - if any - games where players can directly give concrete feedback, suggestions and wishes about future of the game. This is something special and :awesome: what EvE has. Use it for you benefit. Advertise, get people involved. Dedicated players stay and bring more people to the game. This is your win road for steady growth and keeps Eve fun and innovative for years to come. It IS that easy.
Trebor Daehdoow wrote: * Any new content should be directly related to providing support for iteration of existing content. For example (this is not a proposal, just an example for illustration purposes), an expansion of space could be used to provide opportunities for small sovholding, and materials for new POS structures and manufacturing.
I would keep weight on word "should" on this and put even more weight to crowdsourcing above. If people want some totally new feature, obviously it should override this. However I would like to remind about content being more important than graphics. Updating graphics is rather easy and can be done 5 times but updating core content should be done well on 1st go.
Trebor Daehdoow wrote: * The "little things" and Team Gridlock initiatives should receive additional resources.
People who play the game daily are the ones who notice these things. They are also the ones you're trying to keep in the game.
Trebor Daehdoow wrote: It is the strong belief of the CSM that if CCP refocuses their efforts on delivering what the community wants, they will be able to regain the faith and trust of the community, and subscriber numbers will resume their steady growth.
If players get a game they want, they would have to be really stupid to leave. Obviously there has to be few inviduals who fall to this category, but majority will thank you. It is all about getting them involved and providing what they want.
This game is totally different than any other mmorpg. Playerbase is more involved and value different things than average teenager. Premade solutions from some other game haven't been working in Eve very well. Being innovative is good thing, but gotta do it with terms of the actual product and the people who are using it to have fun.
There... You may disagree and I may be wrong. We're all humans afterall. -grey Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
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Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
169
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 17:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:In short, you have as much right to tell CCP management how to do their job as I have to tell you to do yours. Wow you're dumb. CCP formed the CSM to provide them with feedback and guidance on future development of the game.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
46
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:Cearain wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:If I have said it once I have said it a thousand time, neither the CSM nor the player base has the right nor the proper information to try to tell CCP how to macromanage their company.
You can tell CCP what you would like to see in game all you want. Have fun with it.
People get really upset at hearing this for some reason, I suppose passion for the game. So tell them what you want in game. Vehemently. Make a thread with a quarter million likes.
But as soon as you tell them how to do it, you are crossing the line.
I.E. let developers develop. Tell them what you want to see developed. As long as its not gold ammo or bypasses industry, I could give 2 *****. Let the managers manage. If you can manage better than them, become one. I don't want them to continue to assign all of their devs to things other than eve. If they continue to do that they will continue to put out crap expansions and the game will suffer. I am perfectly within my rights to say this. Why would you even suggest people do not have a *right* to say this? You don't know what devs or employees were hired for for what jobs. You dont know what resources were allocated to what tasks and in what timeframe. In short, you have as much right to tell CCP management how to do their job as I have to tell you to do yours.
Yes I do know where the resources have been allocated. They gave a dev blog about it and an 18 month timeframe 2 years ago. In the last summit minutes they said they wouldn't be making changes to it. Get a clue. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
46
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
double post Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
169
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
I agree with almost everything in the CSM statement but not the part about focusing on the ridiculous "crowdsourcing" initiative. A tiny, tiny fraction of players even bothered with the ******** method of collecting votes and it was gamed by the Eve University people. "Docking games" is not something most of the Eve community wants to see prioritized for dev time. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:10:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ladie Scarlet wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:In short, you have as much right to tell CCP management how to do their job as I have to tell you to do yours. Wow you're dumb. CCP formed the CSM to provide them with feedback and guidance on future development of the game.
If I am dumb, your stupidity is legendary. I already agreed to what you said. Development of the game, not the management of CCP.
Those are 2 things that are unambiguously not the same thing. ******* derp.
Quote:
Yes I do know where the resources have been allocated. They gave a dev blog about it and an 18 month timeframe 2 years ago. In the last summit minutes they said they wouldn't be making changes to it. Get a clue.
How many of their employees are developers? When were they hired? How many of those developers were hired to work on Eve? How many of those developers are working on Eve? How much money is allocated to the development of Eve?
Yeah, you know the pertinent information. |
Fergus Runkle
Truth and Reconciliation Council
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
I'm a bit concerned that in CCP's world the phrase "CCP should strongly favor iteration of existing game content over shiny new content." Can be taken to mean that they can carry on messing around with the captains closet, they seem to categorise Incarna as been an equal part of Eve Online these days.
I would much rather that phrase be written as "existing Flying In Space content", it seems rather sad that what we the players call Eve Online, CCP call Flying In Space. |
Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
169
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:15:00 -
[47] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:If I am dumb, your stupidity is legendary. I already agreed to what you said. Development of the game, not the management of CCP.
Those are 2 things that are unambiguously not the same thing. ******* derp. I see. So in your fantasy world the CCP developers work independently of CCP management. That makes perfect sense.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ezurae
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Watch this ___________________ .
The reason for your TWO CSM-thread is way beyond me, and i actually do not care about you, so i'll never ever give you a like.
I totally agree with red-hotlips.
This feels really, really unnecessary, because we already have a statement from CCP, you guys actually already have plenty of support AND YOU KNOW IT, so this now feels more like HARVESTING than anything else.
There are people that believe you are doing good work and i can only agree with them to some point, maybe, but on the other hand - in my mind - the abbreviation actually means...
**** Sucking Morons.
There, you had my attention. Now get back to work and stop whoring "likes".
this thread (CSM Statement) wasnt really needed or at least shouldnt have been necessary. Hell if it WAS necessary then the CSM did something terribly wrong the last months. although i agree with some things, i am not going to +1 to that senseless thread. the wannabe-politician-campaign really is getting annoying...
EMPstrike wrote:Before Incarna's release there were tons of people posting complaining how CCP promised Walking in Stations for years but never delivered. Which to me showed they really want it.
I have a theory that most people only post in dev threads when they have something to complain about, as the area of discussion on specific issues always change when something is changed or released, and the input is by a vast majority, always negative.
EDIT: As a side note and example, ive been a memebr here since 2006, and this is the first day ive used the forums to voice opinions. Exactly that, WiS is something everyone here wanted and still wants to see. And a lot of people ingame are pretty happy with what it is, they just dont have a reason to post in the forums.
I like Incarna and WiS, i agree some FiS stuff really needs fixing and we also need new FiS stuff but they should finish one thing and then go to fix other stuff or add new stuff. Everyone is saying CCP always introduced features and would have stopped finishing them right after deployment. Right now everyone here is demanding they do exactly that again (and btw forum whores have asked that after every expansion, so blame yourself for having unfinished stuff) and i bet you you guys will complain in 2 years that WiS wasnt finished. This comes from a vet who isnt bitter about the game but who is bitter about the forum community the last weeks. I've been playing since Beta and right now the forum whining is just getting ridiculous. The biggest reason is that so many ppl fell for the politician like campaigns the CSM has pulled of and because of that actually believe the game would be bad. Hell this game developed so much since the start, no other company, which isnt the size of blizzard, could have managed to achieve what CCP did.
Let them do their ******* job and dont waste their time with bullshit whines "you promised a dev blog this week" (which btw the CSM promised and not CCP), "you always stop developing stuff after release, so stop developing incarna now its released and do something else". its just ridiculous... |
AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ladie Scarlet wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:If I am dumb, your stupidity is legendary. I already agreed to what you said. Development of the game, not the management of CCP.
Those are 2 things that are unambiguously not the same thing. ******* derp. I see. So in your fantasy world the CCP developers work independently of CCP management. That makes perfect sense. Right. the developers manage the company, obviously.
|
Cypermethren
Celtic Cartage And Hauling
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:49:00 -
[50] - Quote
I am waiting to see if CCP can stand true to their word.
And not just do a two patch stint then go back to the same ways that bought them to this incarna-mess in the first place.
Thankyou CCP for teaching me, Watch what you DO, not what you SAY! :) |
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Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
169
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:54:00 -
[51] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:Right. the developers manage the company, obviously. I wish I worked for a company where the management didn't tell me what to do. Are you really this stupid? The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ripard Teg
Whitestone Enterprises
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:59:00 -
[52] - Quote
There are two ways to look at the devblog, from the optimist's view or the alarmist's view.
I don't think CCP itself has decided what they want to do yet, but it's pretty clear that much of the CSM shares the alarmist's view. And they obviously have more information than I do.
The real question we're dancing around here is that now that CCP has decided to focus on flying-in-space, what does that mean? If we're very fortunate, CCP will write down 15 or 20 possibilities and ask for player feedback on each one. If we're very unfortunate, CCP will write down 15 or 20 possibilities... then decide themselves what they want to do without involving the community. Jester's Trek: wherein I ramble about EVE Online, gaming, and from time to time... life. |
Alexandra Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 19:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
Monger Man wrote: I hate and take offense to the lazy statement. I'm anything but lazy with dscan. And any time anyone defends the way it works either with you're lazy, or the servers simply cannot handle the traffic is simply defending a system because they are used to the way it works. There must be a way to have the dscan update, keep some skill involved in using it, but remove the horrendous amount of clicking it requires. And don't defend it with "server load", I'm sure the developers can figure something out. They have the overview for gods sake, yes I know thats "on grid". But if you had to press a button to update overview for the last upteen years you'd probably defend that as well with "it takes skillz".
Sorry if it offended you, IMO having a pet peeve about such a feature to the point of not understanding why it's like that and can't be changed into something 'automatic' can only be classified as lazyness.
About comparing overview with dscan you simply can't, overview is done simply spamming your game client with everything on grid, while dscan can't work like that because you have angle and distance as a filter, I would got quite technical in the subject but you don't seem to be educated enough to realise the implications of implementing such a feature server and network wide in order to prevent exploitation in the client side, mind you I'm not trying to insult you or anything, you'll just have to trust me as if it would be a dev telling you this exactly the same way, I just happen to work in the same business and know first hand what implications your little feature request would impact on the whole scheme of things. |
AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 19:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ladie Scarlet wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:Right. the developers manage the company, obviously. I wish I worked for a company where the management didn't tell me what to do. Are you really this stupid?
Are you?
Your customers do not dictate to your manager how you should do your job, nor anyone else. They dictate the parameters of what they desire in the product or service your company provides.
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
46
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 19:14:00 -
[55] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:Ladie Scarlet wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:In short, you have as much right to tell CCP management how to do their job as I have to tell you to do yours. Wow you're dumb. CCP formed the CSM to provide them with feedback and guidance on future development of the game. If I am dumb, your stupidity is legendary. I already agreed to what you said. Development of the game, not the management of CCP. Those are 2 things that are unambiguously not the same thing. ******* derp. Quote:
Yes I do know where the resources have been allocated. They gave a dev blog about it and an 18 month timeframe 2 years ago. In the last summit minutes they said they wouldn't be making changes to it. Get a clue.
How many of their employees are developers? When were they hired? How many of those developers were hired to work on Eve? How many of those developers are working on Eve? How much money is allocated to the development of Eve? Yeah, you know the pertinent information.
You obviously haven't read the information ccp provided to us as players in dev blogs and csm minutes.
Read the dev blog it was by ccp zulu in july 2010. (so it was actually just a bit over a year ago) He tells you how many devs are working on which parts of eve. It doesn't matter when the individual devs were hired. Again get a clue.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
25
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 19:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
Too little, too late.
While I'd love to see iterations from A to Z, the 'needs' of CCP as a company must be allowed room for Eve to survive in the long run. This includes the exploratory stints into alternate revenue sources and laying the groundwork for Dust and WoD.
The main problem that they need to address is their habit of launching grand changes, fixing bugs and then leaving it to simmer for 2-3 years .. that is way too long. It took them years to allocate funds to have a permanent 'balance ombudsman' (so new as to still be an unknown with no changes under his belt), something that should have been in place on day one ..
They were so damn proud of their mission tools that theoretically allows them to crank out Arcs and other goodies in short order, how many Arcs do we have again? They were so damn proud of their changes to structure that allows them to push small changes in rapid succession, how many times has that been used (fixing their own brand-new bugs does not count!)?
In short: I cannot support the proclamation as it is much too FiS biased. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 19:20:00 -
[57] - Quote
If likes are a fluff feature that doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter if Trebor gets a bazillion likes, the point is to get the point across to CCP.
I agree with the statement, but I would just like to add the caveat that I don't think WiS is a complete waste of time and should be abandoned or anything like that. I want it, I like it, I want more of it, and I don't see why a 600-person company shouldn't be able to do it all - both "fix" FiS and carry on iterating on WiS.
It's not my company, but my advice would be to shift more resources onto the things that are making money, and take some away from things that aren't making money. I understand that they must be chomping at the bit to do new games, they're creative people, but so long as EVE is the cash cow, they need to see it's kept comfy and has nice green grass to eat. Then by all means, go for it, let's have the new games, and the best of luck.
If recent events have shown anything, it's merely that, contrary to what the subtext of Hilmar's leaked email suggests, they cannot take their playerbase for granted. Love of the game, immersion in the game, hangs on a thread of long-term trust.
If CCP understand that, then evefrything should be copacetic. |
Takashi Kaeda
ZED Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 19:20:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ladie Scarlet wrote:...but not the part about focusing on the ridiculous "crowdsourcing" initiative. A tiny, tiny fraction of players even bothered with the ******** method of collecting votes and it was gamed by the Eve University people. "Docking games" is not something most of the Eve community wants to see prioritized for dev time.
Not empty quoting. Yes to iteration of existing FiS content, no the crowdsourcing farce.
|
Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
17
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 19:26:00 -
[59] - Quote
I few weeks ago, I expressed the idea that the day CCP would make a radical move away from it's current line of action would possibly mean a panic reaction and point to potential risks for the game. Of course, I get somewhat of an uneasy feeling when I read the short, seemingly rushed, statementfrom CCP about the refocus and the scale of it.
This sounds to me like bleeding management and I would pretty much guess that, more than just the vocalization of the community, actions pose themselves as the motivation behind the move; I think the numbers have spoken.
I believe it is obvious that it will not be possible for them [CCP] to just talk and not follow up with actions. This might be a crucial time for the future of this game, however and as such, it could be wiser to tone down a little on the complaints and keep an eye on what is coming.
It is generally a dangerous endeavor to open up the doors wide open to customers suggestions as it tends to create a level of expectations that becomes rapidly "un-meetable". I suspect that at least some of the rationale behind the creation of the CSM was to funnel down this stream and prevent feedback listening to turn into the proverbial Pandora's box.
In short, the message is rather clear and the water is quite hot and it might be better to let CCP maneuvering room to set this great game back on course. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
43
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 19:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
Swooshie wrote: In short, the message is rather clear and the water is quite hot and it might be better to let CCP maneuvering room to set this great game back on course.
Hear hear! From this point, I am now not going to tolerate any more churlish griping on the forums. (Of course reasoned criticism is always absolutely welcome, I'm talking about the sheerly grumpy stuff.)
If CCP's new-leaf turning doesn't pan out, and we haven't seen some solid progress by Winter, then churlish griping may resume.
But for now, let's give them a chance to bind their words with their deeds, and let them feel our love and support to make this ******* FANTASTIC game even better. |
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Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 19:51:00 -
[61] - Quote
Just to be clear, these are closest to my heart:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:* The "little things" and Team Gridlock initiatives should receive additional resources. * CCP should listen to the wishes of the community, who have repeatedly indicated which issues are most important to them via crowdsourcing.
Also.
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
I have a fair deal more skill points than that and I still have stuff that I haven't done in EvE yet. You have a long way to go youngling. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Monger Man
D.S.A.
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 20:01:00 -
[62] - Quote
Alexandra Alt wrote:Monger Man wrote: I hate and take offense to the lazy statement. I'm anything but lazy with dscan. And any time anyone defends the way it works either with you're lazy, or the servers simply cannot handle the traffic is simply defending a system because they are used to the way it works. There must be a way to have the dscan update, keep some skill involved in using it, but remove the horrendous amount of clicking it requires. And don't defend it with "server load", I'm sure the developers can figure something out. They have the overview for gods sake, yes I know thats "on grid". But if you had to press a button to update overview for the last upteen years you'd probably defend that as well with "it takes skillz".
Sorry if it offended you, IMO having a pet peeve about such a feature to the point of not understanding why it's like that and can't be changed into something 'automatic' can only be classified as lazyness. About comparing overview with dscan you simply can't, overview is done simply spamming your game client with everything on grid, while dscan can't work like that because you have angle and distance as a filter, I would got quite technical in the subject but you don't seem to be educated enough to realise the implications of implementing such a feature server and network wide in order to prevent exploitation in the client side, mind you I'm not trying to insult you or anything, you'll just have to trust me as if it would be a dev telling you this exactly the same way, I just happen to work in the same business and know first hand what implications your little feature request would impact on the whole scheme of things.
Oh really? Ok we know there are nodes in a cluster. We can postulate that the nodes keep track of objects loaded into there control. They should be keeping track of grids under there control. You shouldn't have to make a database query to get what is in system. Ask the node for grids and objects in the direction of the scan. The node should only return to the client what is available within that scan, not everything under its control.
Now under that setup, you are doing queries against memory (theoretically possible in sql, but still more overhead) speeding up the query significantly. You should not be able to get any more info than you should because it was not made available to you.
There is no Technical reason that the dscan system cannot be made more efficient, either by removing sql calls and connections from the routine, or some other (and probably numerous since I don't have full knowledge of the systems) routines.
How long it would take to implement is another story. But if you're a good developer you would know that any problem can be solved. Oh wait you probably write C# under windows. I'm sorry, yes then you're stuck with what you have. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
134
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 20:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
Gallente pleasure hub is missing from the list. Careless CSM work. I remember this when it is time to vote again *grin* Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
Mane Frehm
No.Mercy Merciless.
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 20:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
I will make one point...and its the same point I've made for quite some time.
The richness of EVE is not just from the delivery by CCP of exciting/interesting new features that are well done, or from iterating on existing features that need fixes or improvement. It comes from the contributions and creativity of the community, and that only happens when people are motivated to spend time, energy and money in game and out of game.
That motivation has been dying....and while new and/or iterated features for FiS will help, that's not enough. So yes - improve what exists, create new content BUT ensure that you engage your customers as you do so, and explicitly put resources in place to encourage and support those who help bring life to EVE.
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Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 21:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
i do believe the time for action is upon us once again....mass unsubs and jita riots should be the task of the day. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
43
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 21:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
Does "Iterating on existing content" and "Adding new features only if they iterate on existing content" include finishing WiS and adding establishments, contraband and players in space shooting each other over contraband? CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. |
Max Torps
Nomadic Conglomerate
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 23:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
For a long time I thought crowdsourcing was the way to go, it gives CCP an idea of where to focus some of their resource with issues highlighted directly from the playerbase rather than seemingly anonymous focus groups. However, the method of crowdsourcing leave it open to metagaming by large alliances/corps. On saying that, they are the ones putting the effort in to making their pet issues a priority. So it would seem, arguably, crowdsourcing works. If you care, use it! Given that there is no real viable alternative then by definition it is the solution we have at the moment.
According to various dev blogs and posts as well as mentions in CSM minutes, CCP also look at their own list of issues and compare/contrast with those on the crowdsourcing lists so there we have a combined approach.
To answer concerns about development of Incarna, now that Incarna is live, some issues surrounding that can also be added to the crowdsourcing lists.
Regardless of the source of the list of issues though, all of this is for nothing if you only have scant resources assigned to it. There are issues from as far back as 2008 if not older which, to a new player looking at it, looks awful.
So while I applaud this effort with cautious optimism, I am also wary we have been here before. I hope that the introspection mentioned in CCP Zulu's Dev Blog results in some action and we see some much needed love, not just being applied to FiS, but to Eve Online as a whole rather than a massive diversion of resource to other projects,which have had their own equally important business imperative. It's a difficult juggling act but the business imperative must now also focus on player retention, attracting new players and welcoming back old ones to ensure CCP can fund the other projects.
Starfleet Comms Podcast - Your journey through the Eve Universe! http://www.starfleetcomms.com
|
Bob Niac
freelancers inc Territorial Claim Unit
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 23:06:00 -
[68] - Quote
Way I see .. I love EVE. Yes there is a lot of broken stuff. But guess what? I don't see or care about half of it. I take the CSM and other loud drums and derive what I will from it.
If you guys think that leaving the game in stasis just to fix some bugs or because your flavor of the moth ship doesn't work the way you want ... I would imagine you have another thing coming. You want a hell of a lot, you want it now, and you want it basically for free. Guess what? Life isn't all internet space ships. If you want to fix things that bad, then apply to CCP.
Let CCP figure out what's best for CCP. If making another MMO and devoting resources to it makes EVE a stronger brand .. then do it. If adding n feature to EVE makes it a more appealing game to its target audience's real life friends ... by all means. Because these are the things CCP has to do to GET the resources to fix the game.
I don't think I know much about the world. I wouldn't claim to either. But when I look at the capital invested solely on hardware... I cringe. Why? Because they literally poor hundreds of thousands of dollars on back-end and servers PER YEAR. Pardon my language but that **** ain't cheap. Plus they are looking into HPC and other hardware solutions to keep up with the demands we put on the nodes.
You want them to fix the code? Last I checked they have been doing so from the ground up for several expansions now. Unless they feel that re-coding the SOL node system in it's entirety is a good thing (last I heard this would take 12 -14 months or more) then that stays. There are many examples .. check the dev blogs. From what some of the suggestion from the community I have read .. some people are asking to make an entire new game. That just doesn't go well.
Shiny new textures? Check Load balances issues? Getting there. UI? Almost there. Lag? 2000 people in one system? 1k on an RFed node with little lag?
Ok fix stuff .. fine. But don't fix what isn't broken. CSM is great, but at this point I think it may eventually be more harm then good. CCP might want to reconsider how they structure it, Too few people with too much power.
Step back and take a breath guys. There has been a lot of **** flung recently. And I think those who rant on the forum and those who have a direct line to CCP need to realize that they have a responsibility to not be complete asses about how they respond to events in EVE. It trickles down to the masses. And as I said before, there was was a lot of pounding on empty drums. Things were sorted, lies and half truths were revealed on both sides.
So yes fix the game. But please don't shoot yourself in the foot because the playerbase gets stagnant or bored.
Quick and cheap access to PVP, be it re-orginizing gate or adding arenas pr whatever. EVE is at its heart an awesome non-"core" game. So why are we striving to be in that core? WoW is dieing because they changed the game so much from the beginning that people are finding other avenues.
Whatever .. I have a feeling this is going to get shut down as a fanboi post or something... there is no point to go on. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
31
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 23:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
-1 for CSM being idiotic.
The players don't have any idea yet on what CCPs new priorities are. Yet you are asking them to agree with your views that these priorities are ill advised before we have any information to make such a call.
You could have at least waited for this information to become public before starting to stir the pot again.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 23:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
THIS!!!
|
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 00:27:00 -
[71] - Quote
I believe that CCP should favor iteration of existing content over new content but not necessarily strongly favor it. New content is what keeps this game fresh and on top of things. Without new content EvE will grow stagnant and new subscribers will dwindle. Yes...please fix the broken stuff. Please further develope and balance current mechanics and content but do not stop introducing new things and new content.
I gave it a +1 anyway.
And why we need 2 threads where only one is needed is completely idiotic. |
Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 00:39:00 -
[72] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:-1 for CSM being idiotic.
The players don't have any idea yet on what CCPs new priorities are. Yet you are asking them to agree with your views that these priorities are ill advised before we have any information to make such a call.
You could have at least waited for this information to become public before starting to stir the pot again.
^ this, times 100 |
Alexandra Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 01:52:00 -
[73] - Quote
Monger Man wrote:Alexandra Alt wrote:Monger Man wrote: I hate and take offense to the lazy statement. I'm anything but lazy with dscan. And any time anyone defends the way it works either with you're lazy, or the servers simply cannot handle the traffic is simply defending a system because they are used to the way it works. There must be a way to have the dscan update, keep some skill involved in using it, but remove the horrendous amount of clicking it requires. And don't defend it with "server load", I'm sure the developers can figure something out. They have the overview for gods sake, yes I know thats "on grid". But if you had to press a button to update overview for the last upteen years you'd probably defend that as well with "it takes skillz".
Sorry if it offended you, IMO having a pet peeve about such a feature to the point of not understanding why it's like that and can't be changed into something 'automatic' can only be classified as lazyness. About comparing overview with dscan you simply can't, overview is done simply spamming your game client with everything on grid, while dscan can't work like that because you have angle and distance as a filter, I would got quite technical in the subject but you don't seem to be educated enough to realise the implications of implementing such a feature server and network wide in order to prevent exploitation in the client side, mind you I'm not trying to insult you or anything, you'll just have to trust me as if it would be a dev telling you this exactly the same way, I just happen to work in the same business and know first hand what implications your little feature request would impact on the whole scheme of things. Oh really? Ok we know there are nodes in a cluster. We can postulate that the nodes keep track of objects loaded into there control. They should be keeping track of grids under there control. You shouldn't have to make a database query to get what is in system. Ask the node for grids and objects in the direction of the scan. The node should only return to the client what is available within that scan, not everything under its control. Now under that setup, you are doing queries against memory (theoretically possible in sql, but still more overhead) speeding up the query significantly. You should not be able to get any more info than you should because it was not made available to you. There is no Technical reason that the dscan system cannot be made more efficient, either by removing sql calls and connections from the routine, or some other (and probably numerous since I don't have full knowledge of the systems) routines. How long it would take to implement is another story. But if you're a good developer you would know that any problem can be solved. Oh wait you probably write C# under windows. I'm sorry, yes then you're stuck with what you have.
(sorry am drunk can't be bothred to reply politically correctly)
You sir are another of the clueless dumasses that has no idea what isdevelopeiing even drunk I can tgell you you're just another of the ones ugnored by the devs because you bable useless crap.... |
non judgement
Evolved from the Wreck Flying Burning Ships Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 02:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
I should have put it in here... (from the CSM Statement regarding CCP refocus +1 thread)
Devil's advocate:
The funny thing about this is that if the game fails now.. all of you are just as much to blame as CCP is. Like driving someone elses car off a cliff?
You guys lose a game. CCP Employees lose their jobs (or maybe just start a new game).
Lets hope you guys know what you're doing... I don't know this for sure but I'm guessing that none of you have experience in making an MMO successful.
I'd rather let CCP keep doing what they believe is best. It is their business after all.
(I guess this refocus is what they believe is best) |
Wolfcan
EVE University Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 02:25:00 -
[75] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote: If I am dumb, your stupidity is legendary. I already agreed to what you said. Development of the game, not the management of CCP.
Those are 2 things that are unambiguously not the same thing. ******* derp.
Um, dude. Management and development are inextricably linked. i.e. If the Management directs the development team away from EVE and onto Dust and WoD, then the Management has stopped the development of the game. So, if we are only allowed to talk about development (according to you), we aren't allowed to talk about the managment practices that negatively effect that devlopement?
Yeah right.... |
Wolfcan
EVE University Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 02:33:00 -
[76] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:-1 for CSM being idiotic.
The players don't have any idea yet on what CCPs new priorities are. Yet you are asking them to agree with your views that these priorities are ill advised before we have any information to make such a call.
You could have at least waited for this information to become public before starting to stir the pot again.
Ah, dude. CSM is privy to vastly more information than the general public. They aren't 'waiting' like we are for the DevBlog. Further, the only type of lobbying CCP seems to understand is massive pressure, forums, media. If you take the pressure off for 1 second CCP will just go back to developing DUST and WoD. This is truly the strangest managed company I have ever come across. |
Riggs Droput
Mad Bombers Guns and Alcohol
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 02:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
I would like to see CCP refocus on their current game before adding in anything new.
Once they fix that come back and start putting in new features but do not do them half ass. Don't release something half done and say we will come back and fix it later. YOU NEVER DO CCP.
Either complete the new feature with testing before releasing it or don't release it at all. We are supposed to be playing a fully finished game and half the time I feel like I'm beta testing your software for you.
Riggs I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees |
Obviously Confidential
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:19:00 -
[78] - Quote
I stopped playing eve about two months ago, find it amusing that with all the crap and the heaps of failure on the part of ccp, they now start paying attention to their own medicrity and call a "defining moment" doing something about it....
Subscriber numbers down, pcu records ages away, mass protests, bugs everywhere, unfinished gameplay, no development resources, emo vampires and sucky fps console garbage....
CCP: you suck so bad these past years that people prefer the chinese server these days, the one without all the failure you added these past expansions.
I suggest toning down the megalomania and just start working on some above average stuff. No need for defining moments, just be competent and not med+¡ocre with delusions of grandeur.
You are not awesome. You suck. Wake up and start working. For your own sake.
|
Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:22:00 -
[79] - Quote
Obviously Confidential wrote:I stopped playing eve about two months ago, find it amusing that with all the crap and the heaps of failure on the part of ccp, they now start paying attention to their own medicrity and call a "defining moment" doing something about it....
Subscriber numbers down, pcu records ages away, mass protests, bugs everywhere, unfinished gameplay, no development resources, emo vampires and sucky fps console garbage....
CCP: you suck so bad these past years that people prefer the chinese server these days, the one without all the failure you added these past expansions.
I suggest toning down the megalomania and just start working on some above average stuff. No need for defining moments, just be competent and not med+¡ocre with delusions of grandeur.
You are not awesome. You suck. Wake up and start working. For your own sake.
What would we do without such insight on these forums?
... |
Kenshek
Loc-Nar Support Services Rura-Penthe
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:29:00 -
[80] - Quote
I have an extensive software development background and can tell you that you dont want 100% of development effort to be FIS based products. I'm not privy to the inner sanctums of CCP, but in general they should have 30% of their dev effort in network loading support, 30% new content, 40% fixing the things that are not working well in the overall system. You can cut those 3 high-level subcatagories.
My point is things like Corporate Roles, POS problems, whatever happened to the evolvement of the old Cosmos missions, why has the old research agents not evolved? I could go on and on about existing content that has flattened out or is outright broken.
My experiance has taught me to look at what your clients are doing with your software. Then when you see they stopped using that portion, find out why. We in general dont have the big picture data of what areas are being used in eve, but CCP does. How many player hours are going to what areas of eve? Tthen if you see a general player drop off in an area find out why and then determine if the content should be allowed to go flat or improved.
I do concur that space needs to be expanded again dramatically all of eve space is getting pretty dense.
-Ken |
|
Riggs Droput
Mad Bombers Guns and Alcohol
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:33:00 -
[81] - Quote
Kenshek wrote:
I do concur that space needs to be expanded again dramatically all of eve space is getting pretty dense.
Until I see 5-10 players in every system I visit space is not getting close to being dense. I can fly thru null and never see anyone. Maybe in empire its getting crowded but that is because everyone is moving back since there is no reason to be in null unless you like getting hotdroped or blobs.
Personally I think there should be less space so we have more people jammed in a tighter area. More fight's more targets more fun.
Riggs I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees |
mkint
45
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 04:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
Kenshek wrote:I have an extensive software development background and can tell you that you dont want 100% of development effort to be FIS based products. I'm not privy to the inner sanctums of CCP, but in general they should have 30% of their dev effort in network loading support, 30% new content, 40% fixing the things that are not working well in the overall system. You can cut those 3 high-level subcatagories.
My point is things like Corporate Roles, POS problems, whatever happened to the evolvement of the old Cosmos missions, why has the old research agents not evolved? I could go on and on about existing content that has flattened out or is outright broken.
My experiance has taught me to look at what your clients are doing with your software. Then when you see they stopped using that portion, find out why. We in general dont have the big picture data of what areas are being used in eve, but CCP does. How many player hours are going to what areas of eve? Tthen if you see a general player drop off in an area find out why and then determine if the content should be allowed to go flat or improved.
I do concur that space needs to be expanded again dramatically all of eve space is getting pretty dense.
-Ken
The problem is that CCP had 2 teams working on real EVE... that's about 10-20 people out of 600 employees. That's team BFF and Gridlock. Okay, not all 600 employees are necessarily developers... security guys do security, economics guys watch the market, lunchladies dish up sloppy joes. You've got everyone else doing GI Joes and Barbies.
And the thing is, 30% network 30% new content 40% fixes is still around 5X as many people as they've had working on EVE for the past 2 1/2 years, but even such, those categories can overlap quite a bit... for example, adding a super-carrier-killing-battleship will reduce network load (fighterbomber lag killed 0.0) fixes a problem (broken game balance) and adds something new (completely changes the nature of 0.0 warfare.)
That one change alone can fix 80% of the problem with EVE right now, except it would not fix the problem with CCP. I look forward to a day when players don't feel the need to gripe on the forums in an attempt to babysit CCP. |
Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 06:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
Kenshek wrote:I have an extensive software development background
html/php/xml/css dont count....
|
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
49
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 07:04:00 -
[84] - Quote
Sable Moran wrote:Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for. I have a fair deal more skill points than that and I still have stuff that I haven't done in EvE yet. You have a long way to go youngling.
while I am in the 120< mil SP club, and I do agree with you, some extra content wouldn't hurt. hell, like I saw on another thread, having the 2 expansions per year splitted in 1 for mostly iterations and another for mostly new content would be an interesting to develop this game further.
....then again, iterations might bring fresh content themselves (in the form of fixed and finished content), so who knows. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc The Kadeshi
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 07:33:00 -
[85] - Quote
A dedicated balance TEAM. Could you imagine where this game would be if they had that from the start? |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
50
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 07:50:00 -
[86] - Quote
van Uber wrote:A dedicated balance TEAM. Could you imagine where this game would be if they had that from the start? while I do agree that a dedicated balance team would probably be a good idea, it must be said that it's very hard to come up with balance while maintaining status quo on four different types of playstyles that each of the races cater to.
there is also one of the problems of being a sandbox where all of the sudden somebody uses something in a way the devs haven't anticipated, IE: somebody used a pitchfork as an arrow. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
84
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 07:51:00 -
[87] - Quote
Two step wrote:As I said in the other thread, I think we need old stuff fixed as well as some new content. Those of us with 80+ million SP need some new goals to train for.
I say this to newbies all the time, and perhaps you need to hear it too: EVE Online is a sandbox game, not a theme park game. You set your own goals, it's not the game's responsibility to give you new goals. If the only purpose of the game for you is to train more SP and have more things that you have to do in order to "progress", perhaps you should take up Farmville? Down the path of "give veterans more skills to train" lies the dangerous land of Mudflation.
I would prefer that FW and null sec sov warfare were sorted out, instead of having new ships, new features or fancy clothes. I wold prefer to see the UI turned into a game UI rather than it's present "excel in space" look, over having T3 frigates or battleships to fly.
|
Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
21
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 07:56:00 -
[88] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:I would prefer that FW and null sec sov warfare were sorted out, instead of having new ships, new features or fancy clothes. I wold prefer to see the UI turned into a game UI rather than it's present "excel in space" look, over having T3 frigates or battleships to fly.
100% behind that. I like new stuff too but... look at CQ, look at the ships and then look at the UI...
Incarna? Sure! Cool! Can we get the rest of the game on par first?
We shall see, soon... |
mkint
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 08:00:00 -
[89] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: I wold prefer to see the UI turned into a game UI rather than it's present "excel in space" look, over having T3 frigates or battleships to fly.
You really trust CCP to create a new UI without completely decimating the functionality of the current one? Current UI has problems, yeah, but Excel is a lot more popular than EVE... a focus on functionality might not be a bad thing. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
70
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 08:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
I was once a worker. My supervisors, my managers and the owners were all idiots.
I became a supervisor. My workers, my manager and my owners were idiots.
I then became a manager. My workers, my supervisors and my owners were all idiots.
I got so sick of it, I started my own business. Problem is, my workers, my supervisors, my managers and my customers were all idiots.
I'm now unemployed and I am not wealthy.
But I was never an idiot.
I feel for you all. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. |
|
Trebor Daehdoow
Sane Industries Inc.
559
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 10:23:00 -
[91] - Quote
(from the main thread)
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:Trebor, you posted this just to farm Likes, right?
Not originally, but Two Step pointed out that I could, and you know what a fan I am of optimization. And to be fair, I'm liking everyone back who follows the rules -- unlike you! CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism! CSM 6 Activities Summary | My CSM blog |
Kblackjack54
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 12:17:00 -
[92] - Quote
Nice of CCP devGÇÖs to give the masses some indication of what they propose to do in the future, near or otherwise, also that they have finally condescended to admit that the players do have a positive part to play in the development of this game.
The revisions proposed, no matter how they are GÇÿSpunGÇÖ up are in fact GÇÿreversionsGÇÖ to an earlier state in the game but only in part, few I know in game have used or are ever intending to use the much vaunted CQ environment, preferring to look at a closed door than be dictated to in this manner by CCP.
I quick scan through the members of my corporation gives an indication of the distain they look upon this change with, GÇÿNo eyeglasses, No fancy blouses and bootsGÇÖ AUR amounts fixed at 2000, in short they are just not interested in that aspect of the game at all on any level, so that was a scrub from before it was imposed.
Let us go beyond that matter and look at the changes they enforced upon players in the name of GÇÿBetter gaming environment and greater player interactionGÇÖ.
Jump bridges, meant to force players into the clutches of rabid PvPGÇÖers, said in forum players would not let this make a difference to their interactions and why, and it does not, FAIL.
Proposed changes to Super caps, not introduced, resulted in huge areaGÇÖs of 0.0 space currently unoccupied by anything other than POS gathering huge amounts of ISK for a single entity, bit of a problem for players to interact with empty space, FAIL.
Proposed changes to Sovereignty mechanics not introduced, again huge areaGÇÖs of 0.0 in the hands of a single entity so compressing vast numbers of players into smaller and smaller areaGÇÖs, good for inter Corp politics, not good for the game as a whole, FAIL.
In short almost everything designed by CCP to force players to do something has in reality failed miserably when all players have ever asked CCP to do is take the crayons of those crack head script kiddies they employ and GÇÿforce themGÇÖ, to fix what they broke in the first place, like perma jamming ratz and POS mechanics, simple stuff that really does effect the gaming environment in a negative manner to name but two.
Looking back over the years I have been involved with this game it has become more apparent that the one thing CCP lacks is insight into what makes people who play EVE actually play it at all, and the one thing it is not is rampant PvP for all, itGÇÖs there if you want it, but not as the staple fare of the game. What actually makes players play this game is the game itself, a multi facet micro environment that takes intelligent use of time and skill to master, just like R/L in many ways, and just like in R/L if something does not work correctly, if at all the customer will either complain or just not buy the product.
CCP you broke your product, stunted its growth by not addressing issues that the playerGÇÖs, your customers find a problem to their game play and enjoyment, to date you have stoically refused to acknowledge this and to all apparent information still intend to do so, FAIL.
|
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
32
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 12:18:00 -
[93] - Quote
OK Here It Is....
It's a little too easy for the CSM to band together after the fact and say "Bring back stations spinning!" and "Focus on spaceships!" AFTER an obviously failed Incarna expansion. CCP see's the numbers and I'd bet good money that they are listening to their own analysts and not you.
With or without the CSM, I am thinking that CCP would have brought back station spinning anyway. I am betting that they would have seen the numbers drop and realized their flop, without any of you.
Do You See All The Dev Activity On These Forums Now?
They are obviiusly trying to increase communication and make us feel better. This has nothing to do with what the "CSM" wants. It is an attempt to increase profits and fix what has been broken.
CSM's
Get cracking on things that the community wants. "More focus on spaceships" means what exactly? Are you going to urge low sec improvements? Null Sec Improvements? Empire Improvements? Ship Balancing? What exactly does this mean?
Quote:* Any new content should be directly related to providing support for iteration of existing content.
Easy enough to say sure, but it doesn't say anything does it? The community has been telling CCP and the CSM exactly what we want. Ask us and we will tell you, hear us and then go make something change... Our wishes are not a mystery, you only choose to ignore.
And can someone tell me why someone in the CSM seat has been bringing up nerfing Wh minerals? No one seems to want to answer this question.
Do you think WH minerals are currently relevant to the community's needs and wishes? [insert answer here] |
Destructor1792
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 12:38:00 -
[94] - Quote
IMO, this game actually started losing focus not long after they created the CSM
Way back when, someone originally asked CCP of the lifespawn of EvE. If I recall, the figure was around 15 years (based on current technology & ideas back then!).
Now the CSM should be getting back to the roots. Start at the simplest level, what's broke (or not working as intended) & go from there. Leave the Game Development to CCP. If they screw up bad enough, the forums will light up like an Xmas tree to let them know.
BUT Remember, 80% of the userbase doesn't even use the forums or have never posted on them so you are their unspoken voices.
Eve is a complex game which should remain so. Any dumbing down will result in the loss of the player base who wanted somethng different. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
85
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 13:41:00 -
[95] - Quote
mkint wrote:You really trust CCP to create a new UI without completely decimating the functionality of the current one?
Yes, I do trust CCP to be able to rework the UI without completely screwing it up. In fact, I'm sure CCP could go a long way in making the UI more usable and useful without screwing it up at all. There are plenty of game UIs to draw cues from, and plenty of CCP-built videos showing UI styles that could be implemented in the game to add that little bit of "zing" instead of having the entire interface rendered in white lines drawn in 2D over the top of a rendered 3D viewport.
In much the same way that modern GUI utilise the 3D card to render each window and compose the display by stacking those windows and rendering to 2D, the EVE UI could benefit from using those amazingly powerful 3D cards that are minimum spec these days.
|
Zey Nadar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 14:24:00 -
[96] - Quote
The thing that I agree on is that "CCP should listen its players more", but overall I think most marks were missed.
In my opinion the most important problems to solve are eve turning into "supercaps online" and accumulation of wealth to the already wealthy, while those in weak position (no lucrative moons) are weakened further (anomaly change).
While I do like the idea of walking-in-stations, above issues should be given top priority.
I have stopped sub because eve has become boring. Maybe if there are changes in above issues I may resub. Or if there finally will be meaningful game content on the stations. Until then o/ |
AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
13
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 14:43:00 -
[97] - Quote
Grateler wrote:
No one is telling the how to do anything but telling them what needs fixing.
Not sure where your comments are coming from....
Yes, Mittins has directly come out and said he was trying to manipulate the macro management of CCP. And Trebor again directly states it in the original thread 'CSM Statement regarding CCP refocusing'. Try to keep up.
|
Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
186
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 17:22:00 -
[98] - Quote
Destructor1792 wrote:BUT Remember, 80% of the userbase doesn't even use the forums or have never posted on them so you are their unspoken voices. Those people don't count until they embrace the "never stop posting" lifestyle.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
22
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 20:02:00 -
[99] - Quote
Guys, be careful here tho. You are creating a perfect excuse for CCP to blame the next fail on (if fail there is), it wouldn't take a long stretch to blame the CSM for false aim of focus.
I will admit, however, that the CSM moves, right now scream political capital and future votes. "It is when I think about meaning that I lose what I meant to say." -á-á-á -Swooshie |
Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
189
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 21:40:00 -
[100] - Quote
Do away with voting and make The Mittani Chairman For Life. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
|
Crusa Alearf
Avon Cosmetics
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 21:46:00 -
[101] - Quote
We definetely need a dedicated balance team. I can't believe there isn't one! All this balance stuff has been going on for forever (and it will still continue even with the team). But hopefully the team could improve on the current state of things! |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
140
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 22:06:00 -
[102] - Quote
Swooshie wrote:Guys, be careful here tho. You are creating a perfect excuse for CCP to blame the next fail on (if fail there is), it wouldn't take a long stretch to blame the CSM for false aim of focus.
I will admit, however, that the CSM moves, right now scream political capital and future votes. There can not be fail if they follow crowdsourcing as their primary objective and do some important sideprojects of "their own" in the background. Some people obviously will not get what they want and will be unhappy to the things listed in crowdsourcing. These people however are the ones who would complain most likely about anything what isn't something they want. Voting works in real world and it works in the game also as long enough information is handed out and made sure that people know about what they are voting.
Obviously people who care about something will vote. However to make sure to get wide enough spread of voters, voting should be advertised and perhaps even rewarded somehow. There is always the silent majority who doesn't really care and won't vote. It is perfectly ok as they are the people who also adapt the best - or perhaps become active voters next time.
Aim of focus doesn't mean that CCP would have their hands tied. It just means that players get at least something important to them and game keeps evolving to the direction where the playerbase is willing it to go. If CCP thinks that incarna is their thing - they keep doing it. It is not a problem as long the main focus is on stuff what people actually value.
There is no way to please everyone right away, but if we take 10 yeard period of development, the potential truely could be something epic. Just focus on the content, don't be afraid to rewrite old code to make it better, improve graphics when possible, but don't do that to hide crap content. Rewritten old content with new features can be better crowdpleaser than some totally new feature what looks good but has no use to anyone.
This game has been under testing since 2003. Old forums are full of suggestions and long articles howto improve eve. There is more documentation and research about existing features than any manager could wish for. It is like golden plate full of win waiting for someone to come and loot. Usually companies pay top dollar to gain such information, but perhaps in here that has become too obvious thing to notice.
This is a game - it may be serious business but people still play it to enjoy themselves - give them stuff to enjoy and they stay. Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 10:39:00 -
[103] - Quote
CCP must not let WiS stale in half finished state either. Now they started with it, they must continue and give us establishments.
DUST is bound to be released. Unfortunately, The Great Link is still very obscure, yet - as Torfi said - only an all-out integration of both games will implement the promise. I also think that only player-driven conflict will keep DUST successful and players interested versus the vast market of similar IPs.
With that baggage on their back, how many devs and artists are free to be reassigned to FiS ?
Maybe, with some luck, CCP will allow themselves and us the luxury topick one old rotten feature for iteration. It must be one only so it be good when it's winter expansion time. One shiny one that Marketing will be able to sell as if it were new. One that bugs players so much at its current state that they will go out and tell the story to every interested pilot how awesome EVE has turned out to be. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
36
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 11:49:00 -
[104] - Quote
Crusa Alearf wrote:We definetely need a dedicated balance team. I can't believe there isn't one! All this balance stuff has been going on for forever (and it will still continue even with the team). But hopefully the team could improve on the current state of things!
This would prove far more productive then the CSM. |
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 11:52:00 -
[105] - Quote
CCP isn't developing this game for us, the players. We are just a convenient tool for sending them money. They develop their game... THEIR game... for the Industry. They do it for their ego. They do it to make video's, get interviewed by Industry journalists, win Awards, and put on Fan Fest's. And the root of their motivation for making Eve Online is to make a paycheck. I am sure that some CCP employee's do want to make a fun game, but this is secondary to the important things.
There has been exactly ONE, in the history of MMO's, ONE game developed where the Dev team paid more than casual interest in what the players wanted. This game is also dying. And yet, as it peaks and begins a slow decline, millions of players are still sending in their subscription fee's. Why? Because the Dev's did pay a little more attention to what their paying user's wanted. Not totally, but a lot more than CCP. Or any other MMO out there. They were rewarded for this (and other decisions maximizing their appeal like hardware platforms, easy "career paths", low barrier to entry, etc) by becoming an Industry juggernaut. And I only joined after my game of choice finally got too bad to play anymore (that other sci-Fi MMO). And I only played long enough to understand the game, and gladly quit.
CCP need's to give players what they want, even if CCP doesn't agree with it. They need to stop developing for their ego, and they need to give up the idea that (whispers) "If we make it, they will come!" No, CCP, you don't know what is best for us. You don't know better than us what is fun for us. We won't be glad that you have shown us what we *should* think is fun. And we don't care about how many journalists are knocking on your door to interview you, or how many personal assistants you have. We want you to fix the game. Fix it!
The PR machine is humming along smoothly. That's all we are hearing. The CSM system is just another branch of the Company PR apparatus. As long as they are under an NDA, we can't trust them. As long as CCP has to "approve" the statements of the CSM, we can't trust them. It's just smoke and mirrors to distract us from the fact that CCP isn't doing what is best for US. They are doing what's best for themselves. |
trexinatux
Bipedal Carnivore Club
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 12:01:00 -
[106] - Quote
CCP we need more polish on FIS. Please add:
1. More better Sexy Interactive GUI w/ more audio queues. - Attract everyone. 2. Reduce the draconian skill training times. - Attract Casuals 3. Add a "CareBear" low risk PvP element. - Attract CareBears to PvP Turn them into CareMonsters 4. Earning Aurum by doing very difficult things in game. - Attract Grinders 5. More shiny things to keep me looking at the game instead of browsing forums on the In game browser. - Attract instant gratification crowd. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
36
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 12:47:00 -
[107] - Quote
Quote:CCP isn't doing what is best for US. They are doing what's best for themselves.
It's a company & they are supposed to?
It just so happens that giving the player base what they have been asking for for years, will better their company in profound ways. If only their CEO understood that, but I don't think that he does.
Did you hear him in the alliance tournaments? He was unable to even name the different ships in "his own" video game. Not necessarily a bad thing, but if he don't get little things like Gallente has RSD, and Amarr has TD, then how can he grasp the nuances that are imported to his player base?
He can't. & as far as I know there is no "CCP team" present to discern such information, or at the very least, read these forums and bring what people complain about everyday to the folks in charge. The CSM sure as hell isn't doing anything.
Thus, I must assume CCP's CEO is out somewhere buying more pants. After which, upon seeing them... all of his friends will admire him! Because I know I admire people when I see them wearing 1,000 dollar pants! What? Don't you? |
BearUkraine
Light Style
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 13:11:00 -
[108] - Quote
Generally I agree with CSM Statement, but any way I am waiting for Incarna. I think it is nice part of eve world. From my point of view, would be so cool to make something like Mass Effect online, where people can choose themselfs what to do. It can be pew pew inside of station (if I cant take station using ships, why CCP doesnt want to give us possibility to take it by holding a weapon in our avatars' hands?). I would like to have shops, bars, but it doesnt mean that ships not interesting for me any more. It just great opportunity of our choise, like what deside - mission running or exploration or WH? I agree there are problems, but must be clearly defined balance between spending time on the new features and fixing existing code. EVE is the WORLD, UNIVERSE. EVE must be represented from all sides, not just ships. |
Eli Strange
Gravity Mining and Manufacturing Inc The Company LLC
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 15:31:00 -
[109] - Quote
I enjoyed your post, and I did +1 the post. However, I hope you mean that CCP will reprioritize FIS to the front, and not abandon WIS. I do think they have great potential in WIS, but I do agree that they need to shore up FIS before moving into the flashy content. |
Garo Hertee
Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 10:04:00 -
[110] - Quote
Eli Strange wrote:I enjoyed your post, and I did +1 the post. However, I hope you mean that CCP will reprioritize FIS to the front, and not abandon WIS. I do think they have great potential in WIS, but I do agree that they need to shore up FIS before moving into the flashy content.
I completely agree. CCP is never going to make everyone happy, especially since we have represented in the playerbase the very extremes of opinion from "You've been promising WiS for years, give it to us now" to "This is a FiS game and time spent on anything else is a total waste." The key is balance.
For good or ill, WiS is now with us. Personally I looked at it for a whole 10 minutes then elected to turn it off. Why? It's eye candy and it's nice but there's no actual gameplay in it for now. For now. As far as I can determine, this is what was intended of this first release, a stepping stone to getting beyond the door to establishments and having some gameplay in WiS. Personally, I'm still hopeful, although I like the feature mentioned in the recent devblog to choose whether to stay in your ship or enter your CQ when you dock. That's at least a nod to those who have no interest in WiS.
While I agree with the CSM's statement in general, I think that now WiS is a game feature, it should continue to be worked on. It shouldn't be worked on to the exclusion of everything else and I understand it isn't. It looks to an outsider as if it is currently the main thrust. The problems with FiS and other game mechanics have been with us for much longer and maybe they should be the main thrust instead for a time. Balance. Don't stop WiS development but downgrade it.
In my opinion, the reason this has come to a head is that the balance has been wrong for a number of years. I like the stuff CCP have been doing but I think it has been done in the wrong proportions. To correct a problem which has been rollercoasting along for that long will take some drastic action now, but it should be a temporary course correction. Don't consider any new features right now, focus on fixing existing content and iterating on shiny new content which was previously released. At a later stage, start to put some resources back into new features again. This I believe is the way to win back the respect of the players and see healthier trends in subscription numbers.
As for crowdsourcing, the most recent one was the first I had taken part in. I don't think anyone is selling it as being perfect, but it is a useful tool, which will become more useful if more people take part. Maybe I'm just thick but I had to read the voting instructions twice to figure out how it was being done. Keep this simple to get the best participation. We can all see how the crowdsourcing results can be skewed, CCP and the CSM can see that too. The results are just another feedback method for CCP to take into account in their decision making, not the sole one.
In summary, keep new features out of the picture until the problems with development focus are back on track, a bit less WiS (but not a complete halt), a bit more FiS (fixing long-established problems) and this game should continue to get better and better.
|
|
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 13:31:00 -
[111] - Quote
Eli Strange wrote:I enjoyed your post, and I did +1 the post. However, I hope you mean that CCP will reprioritize FIS to the front, and not abandon WIS. I do think they have great potential in WIS, but I do agree that they need to shore up FIS before moving into the flashy content.
Then you shouldn't have +1 them. What I read was a general statement that didn't really say anything.
Not enough specifics there. Which basically invalids the entire thing sadly.
There going to go back to CCP with a general statement that says what ?
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |
Ugleb
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 17:50:00 -
[112] - Quote
I gave a +1 but have a caveat to it.
CCP need to finish and deploy the first iteration of establishments. Too much effort has gone into Incarna already just to ditch it for the next year or more. Get the first deployment out, some multi-player environments and then let it settle for a deployment cycle with no major additions other than basic tweaks and fixes. Use that time to focus in on traditional EVE mechanics such as the sov system and FW. http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/ |
Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
206
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 19:30:00 -
[113] - Quote
Ugleb wrote:I gave a +1 but have a caveat to it.
CCP need to finish and deploy the first iteration of establishments. Ugh no they don't. Let them put all that roleplaying crap in the Twilight mmo. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Scorpio Hollanda
Trojan Legion Rogue Empire.
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 06:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
I know this horse has been beaten to death, resurrected and beaten to death again, but (you knew it was coming) we ought to do the same for botting? Shouldn't be too hard for CCP to find them, right? |
White Tree
Broski Federation Elite Space Guild
211
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 12:32:00 -
[115] - Quote
Check out all these whineposts lmao.
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
38
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 13:37:00 -
[116] - Quote
White Tree wrote:Check out all these whineposts lmao.
Oh look! Something constructive and useful from a CSM member! |
AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
13
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 14:06:00 -
[117] - Quote
White Tree wrote:Check out all these whineposts lmao.
You do represent us after all. I hear that all time. So why don't you quit whining?
|
Temulkar Blaine
Liberation Army BricK sQuAD.
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 14:11:00 -
[118] - Quote
CSM call us whiners, CCP call us rabble, people are still logging off. The clock is still ticking, nothing has been achieved.
meh. |
Patch Gatsby
LightningStrikesTwice Elemental Tide
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 16:17:00 -
[119] - Quote
December 20th is now CCPs drop dead date. If things aren't on a path to improvment on the existing content, then large numbers of subscribers will not have any reason not to give that "other" space MMO a chance. The Eve population may dip so low that even if people want to play there will be too few. The game could collapse in a matter of months. |
Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 17:02:00 -
[120] - Quote
Some of the "whiners" may have misinterpreted the CSM statement. Problem with the statement is that the CSM is giving you to read what they intend to tell CCP; word by word. But language between players is different than language between CSM and CCP obligatorily has to be -- at least since the CSM talks to CCP's upper management.
I fear there is a language disconnect between the CSM and dear readers. Possibly the CSM should not have players vote on their exact texts, which they then take to CCP. CSM needs to address CCP in terms that CCP is likely to understand and let them influence CCP's position. But if gathering input from the players, maybe a different style of wording would be better understood -- while maintaining the sense of the whole message ?
Semantical tactics aside, I appreciate that the CSM continuously gathers opinion on a broad scale with a multitude of methods. |
|
AJ Yaga
Those Magnificent Men In Their Flying Machines.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 23:37:00 -
[121] - Quote
White Tree wrote:Check out all these whineposts lmao.
Wow, way to go showing the Eve community how well CSM support us. Idiot. Seriously, LISTEN to the community's opinion and represent that to CCP. If you're incapable of that, you're not worthy of the votes that put you on the CSM in the first place. |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 00:10:00 -
[122] - Quote
White Tree wrote:Check out all these whineposts lmao.
I for one am glad this man is representing me This is what happens when you allow a voting process to be manipulated by the inflation caused by multiple accounts. |
Sassums
Wormhole Exploration Crew Night Sky Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 00:26:00 -
[123] - Quote
With the discussion of the removal of ABC's from wormhole space I will will be voting no confidence with the current CSM Selection.
This is not what the player base wants. |
Ralinastrife
Wormhole Exploration Crew Night Sky Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 00:33:00 -
[124] - Quote
i hear alot of people saying...fix this...fix that...well here is what i think
Fixing Stuff should be like weekly stuff...its called patching etc..
Winter expansion should be just what its called...Expansion!!!! i dont wanna see in expansion nothing but bug fixes..i want something new and extraordinary!!!!!!!!!!!
|
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 00:43:00 -
[125] - Quote
You live in a wh, a brand new and improved POS systems would ne new and extraordinary...
Unless you are one of those people who let everyone else do it for you in which case [edited] and then go an [edited] [edited] until it either [edited] or it turns red. |
Alcolin
Hudson Walker Incorperated
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 04:26:00 -
[126] - Quote
EMPstrike wrote:While i DO agree with the statment in the other thread, i totally disagree that CCP should not focus on new things (which i assumed referred to walkin in stations)
Before Incarna's release there were tons of people posting complaining how CCP promised Walking in Stations for years but never delivered. Which to me showed they really want it.
I have a theory that most people only post in dev threads when they have something to complain about, as the area of discussion on specific issues always change when something is changed or released, and the input is by a vast majority, always negative.
I propose a survey IN GAME amongst the players IN GAME is taken on issues, as alot of people who are busy enjoying the game have no reason to visit the forums other than discussing ship fits or missions or something.
What is it, like 25,000 individual subscribers to the game? when a dev blog is released, after 1 week, its like maybe 3 or 400 people, maybe a bit more, reply to it, and only about 75% of that is negative, and most of that negativity isnt even game related (comments on CCP's competancy, etc)
Have a survey in game, and when making this survey, bear in mind some people have several accounts and they feel they should use them all to make thier own voice bigger......
I have my Gripes ...with CCP/Eve ..but this is a good idea... or at least link them from ingame loggin to a voting page. The only down side is they they will be exposing the rest of the players to known issues! ... that could have a even worse effect on the game... !
|
Tarachi Yfanis
nul-li-fy Atlas.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 07:43:00 -
[127] - Quote
Ralinastrife wrote:i hear alot of people saying...fix this...fix that...well here is what i think
Fixing Stuff should be like weekly stuff...its called patching etc..
Winter expansion should be just what its called...Expansion!!!! i dont wanna see in expansion nothing but bug fixes..i want something new and extraordinary!!!!!!!!!!!
****, just requote this everywhere because there's a lot of wasted angry words going around in the eve punditsphere that could be summed up in this post here, forgiving the blatant whoring of ellipses, of course. |
stoicfaux
247
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 16:16:00 -
[128] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:While CSM is pleased that CCP is refocusing their development efforts, we have grave concerns about how CCP development will be reprioritized.
What are the "grave concerns" about prioritization?
Is the CSM statement implying that there's something wrong with CCP's FiS reprioritization process?
Or is the CSM trying to be proactive and ensure that the reprioritization process is setup a certain way?
Basically, I'm having difficulty taking the CSM statement seriously, because what I see is:
a) The devblog (ship spinning, cyno, etc.) is addressing some high visibility, low hanging fruit type issues. Meaning, CCP is putting out some quick changes as a sign of good faith.
b) I haven't seen anything from CCP about what's in the next iteration/plan of "refocused" FiS changes. Meaning, there's nothing to critique or have grave concerns about just yet.
Or did I miss a recent devblog, interview, etc.?
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
45
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 16:28:00 -
[129] - Quote
Patch Gatsby wrote:December 20th is now CCPs drop dead date. If things aren't on a path to improvment on the existing content, then large numbers of subscribers will not have any reason not to give that "other" space MMO a chance. The Eve population may dip so low that even if people want to play there will be too few. The game could collapse in a matter of months.
What "other" space MMO are you referring to? Star Trek maybe? You can't possibly mean Star Wars since almost none of it takes place in actual space but primarily on planets and starbases.
You doomsayers need to grow a pair...of braincells. Then start thinking for yourselves instead of jumping on the "OMFG EvE is DYING!" bandwagon everytime a new MMO comes out or someone doesn't like the content of an expansion CCP releases. |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:08:00 -
[130] - Quote
Cannot "like" the CSM post. "Likes" are silly. In my opinion "Likes" are the modern FB generation's fast food no-thought way that replaces a true discussion. Be loud and slightly witty, get likes from all the socially braindead, you don't even have to be right. (It's addictive though, I gave a few myself today... ))
Personally I think the CSM did a good job during the "no-game-affecting-Items" protests.
On many other topics they do not represent a majority of the playerbase and neither does their crowd control, eh, crowd-sourcing blog, because most of the players could not be bothered to read through or contribute to that.
Face it, most players want to play, not be part of endless discussions.
Also: 0-Sec discussion. I think if anyone is destroying the 0-Sec experience, it is actually the inhabitants of said systems. I mean, how could CCP find a way to "make it more attractive"? They can take all the ice away from High Sec - means my Mackinaw will get rusty. They can nerf WHs - means I still will go there.
I would still not join one of the large Alliances or "rent" space from them. On the other hand it apparently was all the 0-sec player's decision that it is kewl to be part of a monstrous Alliance. You cannot take that freedom away through artificial ramifications - it would be against sandbox ideals -, so we get the 0-Sec they want/deserve.
WiS should be fully developed. I think it will add to the space simulation experience, but more important: I know it has drawn a lot of (good) new players to EVE. Today I read a post on these forums that began like: "Brave words from a 2008 player". What is this, a gerontocracy gone egomaniac? Some fresh blood is needed and I want WiS & new space content for my part. (without crap like farming emblems and daily missions, etc., like some people suggested recently for "casual" play. WOW/STO != EVE)
As to other games: I always keep a subscription up for one fantasy MMO and one SciFi MMO. And EVE has been my favorite SciFi game ever since I started.
I'm not a CCP fanboy, but I personally do not know: a) a better SciFi MMO atm. STO is kindergarten crap. Black Prophecy, Battle Star Galactica: Just shoot the F out of other players. No alternatives, no true losses. Too shallow for my tastes. b) Why all the hate? Aside from the recent leaks CCP is quite open compared to other studios. Hell, try the same symphony of discord on Craptics, eh, Cryptics STO forum. You get a forum ban faster than CONCORD could warp. Drink a tea, take a valium if need be, calm down, be constructive instead. I sure as hell know, I wouldn't know how to formalize a blueprint for future priotirization of content from the posts here. Even the FiS-Only people aren't unified in their opinions on what they want. c) SWTOR is/will be a fantasy game in my mind. People playing EVE are either looking for a different and much darker game - even without dark side points - or are in the wrong game to begin with. |
|
Wolfcan
EVE University Ivy League
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 06:19:00 -
[131] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
b) I haven't seen anything from CCP about what's in the next iteration/plan of "refocused" FiS changes. Meaning, there's nothing to critique or have grave concerns about just yet.
Or did I miss a recent devblog, interview, etc.?
Hey dude, just because YOU haven't seen anything doesn't mean CSM haven't. They have access to NDA information so they are talking from a point of view of knowledge. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
286
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 06:59:00 -
[132] - Quote
Wolfcan wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
b) I haven't seen anything from CCP about what's in the next iteration/plan of "refocused" FiS changes. Meaning, there's nothing to critique or have grave concerns about just yet.
Or did I miss a recent devblog, interview, etc.?
Hey dude, just because YOU haven't seen anything doesn't mean CSM haven't. They have access to NDA information so they are talking from a point of view of knowledge.
Oh dear... Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
72
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 07:58:00 -
[133] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Wolfcan wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
b) I haven't seen anything from CCP about what's in the next iteration/plan of "refocused" FiS changes. Meaning, there's nothing to critique or have grave concerns about just yet.
Or did I miss a recent devblog, interview, etc.?
Hey dude, just because YOU haven't seen anything doesn't mean CSM haven't. They have access to NDA information so they are talking from a point of view of knowledge. Oh dear...
Ssh.. don't say anything, let Wolfcan humiliate himself by figuring it out.
GÖ½ When your ship gets blown to bits GÖ½ And you lose your Faction fits \Gÿ+/ Don't worry GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ Be Happy \Gÿ+/ |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
126
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 09:13:00 -
[134] - Quote
While iterations are very sorely needed and some of these iterations (like the pos and FW) would possible make a whole new game within the game I believe it shouldn't just be about iterations.
CCP has had many great ideas announced (viceroys, comets, system wide belts, mining planetary belts, smallholding) that there are certainly items that could and should be brought forward. Iteration shouldn't become stagnation, thats what we are trying to avoid! - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
913
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Posted - 2011.10.01 16:01:00 -
[135] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:What are the "grave concerns" about prioritization?
Is the CSM statement implying that there's something wrong with CCP's FiS reprioritization process?
We want to make sure that as much as possible, the new resources -- however much that will be -- are devoted to improving and iterating the existing game, as opposed to being squandered on an ill-advised leap to "awesome new shiny!"
CCP is still in the process of deciding how to allocate these new resources, so we want to make sure that they get an unambiguous message from their customers as to what their customers want -- as opposed to what they might want.
We believe in the radical proposition that a game company ought to deliver what their customers want. CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism! CSM 6 Activities Summary | My CSM blog |
space gator
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
5
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Posted - 2011.10.05 21:27:00 -
[136] - Quote
*Bump*
Although the "proof is in the pudding" and we'll see where we are after the winter expansion and not everything made it in:
A big Thank You to those CSM delegates who pushed for Prioritization Crowdsourcing and bringing this to the attention of CCP.
Yay, flying in space!
And thanks to CCP management and staff for seeing the light.
Cautiously optimistic! o/
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