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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.08.01 17:50:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Bhattran on 01/08/2010 17:50:07
Originally by: gfldex Quite a few ppl in this thread imply that removing the macro miner in the moment he is reported is the right way to go.
Interweb forumses would be a much better place if more ppl would actively use their brains.
I don't see that, I see 'rage' that the suspects are reported over and over and CCP appears not to do anything about it, ie they don't investigate or finding nothing do not tell players through the petition, if it is kept open for that long that the matter is settled. One would think that a macro suspect would accumulate a history of getting reported and once confirmed/proven innocent future concerns could get looked into by CCP more quickly. The way it works seems to support macro'ing is fine so long as you don't hack the game or RMT.
I think anyone in EVE can see the dangers of banning players based on other players reportsm that isn't the way to do it. ------------------------------------------------------- 5 minute forum time delay is a crime against humanity. |
ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.08.01 17:59:00 -
[32]
topics like this always remind me of when i was playing unreal tournament and every second match i would be yelled at for being a cheater and aimbotter and what not. people tend to very quickly accuse people of stuff and make up artifical "100% accurate" rules of what behaviour constitutes towards cheating/macroing.
the thing is when u reported someone and he still in the game a few weeks later, most propably the GM came to the conclusion that it was a false accusation.
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Legs Mackenzie
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:01:00 -
[33]
Removing macroers removes revenue streams!
Shhesh, I'd have thought their position was obvious on this.
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ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie Removing macroers removes revenue streams!
Shhesh, I'd have thought their position was obvious on this.
sure thats why they have banned 17.000(?) accounts earlier this year in their holy rage campaign. because they felt their revenue was too high. |
gfldex
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Bhattran RMT
There we go. Now keep your brain going! If the macro miner is affiliated or operated by a RMTer, when do you want to ban that char? And no, right away is not the right answer.
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Legs Mackenzie
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie Removing macroers removes revenue streams!
Shhesh, I'd have thought their position was obvious on this.
sure thats why they have banned 17.000(?) accounts earlier this year in their holy rage campaign. because they felt their revenue was too high.
You mean a year ago?
Maybe it's just my recent change in optics, from rose-tinted, to jaded; but I'm fairly certain the data would support that banning macroers decresases subscription revenue.
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oniplE
MeMento.
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:26:00 -
[37]
At first sight you'd suspect a conflict of interest: banning the macro's means less revenue for CCP. But if you look at the previous unholy rage campaign, you see the average CPU use per pilot dropped 30% after the banning of 6.200 accounts. That means the server will be able to handle more people, which saves CCP money in server expansion/maintenance. Now we have to find out if 6.200 macro accounts (about a million dollars a year) are more profitable than a server with 30% more power. Will CCP "buy" 30% more cpu cycles for 1 million dollars? (muhaha, one million dollars!!!, sorry..) x |
ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:27:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie Removing macroers removes revenue streams!
Shhesh, I'd have thought their position was obvious on this.
sure thats why they have banned 17.000(?) accounts earlier this year in their holy rage campaign. because they felt their revenue was too high.
You mean a year ago?
Maybe it's just my recent change in optics, from rose-tinted, to jaded; but I'm fairly certain the data would support that banning macroers decresases subscription revenue.
and that they do it anyways and even in huge masses is a testiment that they are willing to take a loss for removing macroers from the game. |
Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:35:00 -
[39]
I was unaware of this blog:
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=687
Thank you CCP and those above who linked it.
To the OP imagine if there are 6200 Macrominers that they banned in one event, then they likely sifted those from a reported list of say up to 10,000 or 20,000? due to the nature of the ban, a CCP employee must review each cast. Say it takes 30 minutes to thoroughly investigate someone, likely more, but for sake of argument, then that would take up to 10,000 hours of real time for 20,000 people reported.
I am guessing, and it is unlikely that CCP will tell us HOW they do it, is that they review the people who are reported MOST, so reporting is like voting. Remember report early and often : )
Best, Apollo PS I've edited my previous posts in this thread to reflect my new level of understanding. TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times. Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. |
REQUIN TIRAN
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:36:00 -
[40]
Originally by: oniplE At first sight you'd suspect a conflict of interest: banning the macro's means less revenue for CCP. But if you look at the previous unholy rage campaign, you see the average CPU use per pilot dropped 30% after the banning of 6.200 accounts. That means the server will be able to handle more people, which saves CCP money in server expansion/maintenance. Now we have to find out if 6.200 macro accounts (about a million dollars a year) are more profitable than a server with 30% more power. Will CCP "buy" 30% more cpu cycles for 1 million dollars? (muhaha, one million dollars!!!, sorry..)
this is a reasonable argument that could be happening, seeing the big picture, EVE is a business and is made to make money, period.
That the community feels "uncomfortable" with the macros is irrelevant. but it will be good to see even when that dissent will be ignored and if this has an impact on the game or not. Unholy Rage is only a "pest control" for when things get out a bit from the hands of CCP
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democrities
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:37:00 -
[41]
Edited by: democrities on 01/08/2010 18:38:18 I dont think its macromining is legal as it is so much that the GMs are just lazy people who wont do their job. For example, I submitted petitions twice, once because someone was trying to lag me and a corp mate out by spamming chat requests and then making racist comments towards me. Petitioned it, got the generic "we will investigate" response, and they did NOTHING. 2nd petition: I petitioned a guys character name because a guy literally had a racial ephitet for african americans as a name. Got generic reply. again, NOTHING dont, he still has the name.
So yeah, the ingame GMs are just lazy.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.01 20:14:00 -
[42]
Originally by: REQUIN TIRAN this is a reasonable argument that could be happening, seeing the big picture, EVE is a business and is made to make money, period.
That the community feels "uncomfortable" with the macros is irrelevant.
No, it's not particularly irrelevant.
The reason the community feels "uncomfortable" is because macros aren't allowed. If CCP is a business that wants to keep onà well, doing businessà they need to uphold the rules they themselves have set out, or they won't have any customers for the simple reason that people expect that everyone should be held to the same standard. If macroers are allowed to break the rules, then so should I be.
So, the question is: do CCP want to lose 350k accounts to keep those 6k+ macroers happy?
Or, to put it on a more personal level, would you prefer it if I started calling your family particularly nasty things and makingà let's sayà "interesting" conclusions on your proclivities (sexual and otherwise) because I didn't like the cut of your jib, and if I then took over your account and trashed it? After all, none of the rules that prohibit any of that are actually worth enforcing ù doing so would make CCP lose customers, and again: if they choose to ignore their own rules in one area, why on earth should they adhere to them in other areas?
So no, it's not a reasonable argument that CCP lets people ignore the rules, just because kicking those cheaters out would reduce profits. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.08.01 22:06:00 -
[43]
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Bhattran RMT
There we go. Now keep your brain going! If the macro miner is affiliated or operated by a RMTer, when do you want to ban that char? And no, right away is not the right answer.
I'm sorry are you suggesting CCP tacitly approves all macro mining and lets it continue as entrapment for the day when/if they decide to RMT as they have been 'getting away' with it and accumulate so much isk they decide to try and sell it or maybe get hacked then become pawns in a RMT operation?
If someone is involved in RMT yes you want to watch them for a time to connect the dots and knock down/out more RMT accounts I don't have a problem with that, anyone who thinks about it really shouldn't either as it is helpful to have 'eyes' on someone.
There are two different issues with macro mining, people get it confused seeing macro mining=rmt and it doesn't always work like that. A player can macro mine and keep all the isk for themselves, no RMT, according the the cited EULA on the first page it is 'cool'.
------------------------------------------------------- 5 minute forum time delay is a crime against humanity. |
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.08.01 22:30:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Malcanis It may not be "legal", but as long as one isn't engaged in RMTing, there certainly dont seem to be any consequences for doing it.
This. CCP cracks down on the big organized RMT operations, but Joe Blow running his mining/ratting bot while he goes to work/sleeps seems to get away with it. |
Kallehd
Caldari Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2010.08.01 22:36:00 -
[45]
Well, being a miner, I have some strong feelings about all this topic.
Regarding macros... anyone out mining 23/7 for more than 7 days should be banned. Period! No human can be working on 1h sleep for that amount of time and not be brain dead already. Besides that, there's little to no way of proving anything, as macros tend to work in the most efficient way .... as dedicated miners also do!
Yesterday I was emailed, with the guy telling me I was a chinese macro. I told him I was actually Portuguese! :D Any did he supposedly reported me? I auto-rejected convo and didn't reply in local and was playing all afternoon long! After about 6h of mining, he decided I was a macro and reported me.
Well mates, I need to ask every single one of you guys in this thread who gave out theories about finding macroers. How the hell do you know? The only sure way I saw here is suiciding and if his pod keeps coming back, then it's a macro! Otherwise? You have no way in hell to know.
I've seen people complain about me using 200km+ bookmarks, because that's the way of the macro. Well mates, it's the way of the miner too as exhumers aren't exactly the most agile ships on the market. Seen them complain about me being out alone, going to station and coming back, time and time again. Again, can someone please tell how to mine solo without going back and forth? GSC? my hulk holds about 18k cargo, so if there's a secure container I don't know about, let me know!
And regarding activity. Not respoding to your convos? Well probably I'm not looking at the game! How many of you have actually mined more than a couple of hours? I check EVE every 5m and after 20 warp to station to unload. Normally I'm watching TV, a movie or actually playing another game in window mode (Alien Swarm anyone? :P). What the hell are you people expecting? Every single miner looking at the pretty lights and checking local every second? This is high-sec mining... not rocket science! It's a 95% passive activity!
Get a grip before going all out and reporting everyone out in a belt. Not everyone cares, not everyone wants to respond. Why would they feel the need to prove to you they are not a macro? It's the other way around mates... you need to prove that they are in fact breaking the rules! I feel ****ed at this as it's not the first time I have to actually go out of my way to "prove" I'm at the computer! WAKE UP! MINERS ARE IDLERS BY NATURE!!
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.01 22:42:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kallehd No human can be working on 1h sleep for that amount of time and not be brain dead already.
Cough... _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Kallehd
Caldari Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2010.08.01 23:05:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kallehd No human can be working on 1h sleep for that amount of time and not be brain dead already.
Cough...
Ok So just get CCP his username and everyone else gets it!
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.08.01 23:16:00 -
[48]
Yes a petition is the best way to do it as Adida said. You cant just say these people are macro mining.
A few months ago i did a petition about those macro magnate missions runners. To help ccp you need to give ccp some evidence like Times you have seen them logged in, any attempts to convo them, were all these miners created at nearly the exact same time and all the same race? Do they have weird names? you really need to make sure you have good evidence before accusing them.
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ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.08.01 23:23:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Yes a petition is the best way to do it as Adida said. You cant just say these people are macro mining.
A few months ago i did a petition about those macro magnate missions runners. To help ccp you need to give ccp some evidence like Times you have seen them logged in, any attempts to convo them, were all these miners created at nearly the exact same time and all the same race? Do they have weird names? you really need to make sure you have good evidence before accusing them.
however none of the points you listed is good evidence.
- unlike you observe them 23/7 yourself, you have no evidence they are online 23/7
- if they dont respond to your convos then they simply dont want to talk to you
- why would the creation date matter, why should a miner be disallowed from multiboxing/multi accounting
- very subjective matter wether or not a name is weired to someone. And if it were a subject over that CCP bans player then the macroers would simple use more common names.
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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2010.08.01 23:51:00 -
[50]
Or maybe it is just some kind of brain defect which you get if you stare for too long at your mining laser. First you start to see macro miners EVERYWHERE!! And then you start to get the whole picture and the truth that CCP is behind all this.... -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately. |
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Bella Yar
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Posted - 2010.08.02 00:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Mors Hades some time since I've noticed that despite having sent several petitions, the GM`s does not seem to mind the fact that there are Macros mining, and seem to all use the same message response. MACROS I have reported for over a month still are quietly mining.
Originally by: CCP Adida Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
CCP Adida phail
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.02 03:13:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Bella Yar CCP Adida phail
The fact that someone submitted a petition because a miner didn't respond to their irritating presence in game does not necessarily correlate to that miner being a macroer.
Submit petitions when you think you see someone who is macro mining, then leave it be.
The best way to deal with macro mining is, of course, to blow up the offending ship and pod the pilot. The catch being that most people would prefer to simply post on the forums about how they watched this guy macro mining, rather than take the necessary action themselves.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Mors Hades
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Posted - 2010.08.02 03:14:00 -
[53]
The problem is not like having an effective way to find out who is a macro or not, it is clear that no one can be 100% sure, but there are circumstances that lead us to suspect very seriously.
I do not agree with those who do it with just a few signs, such as not responding, or not accepting an invitation or seeing a guy mining several hours, you have to spend several days watching the behavior of these people and if after this is a REASONABLE DOUBT that it can be a macro, make a petition.
What is worrying about this is that there seems to be a mechanism sufficiently agile and effective, don`t know how complicated it can be for a GM to identify a macro, don`t know how long the process took, but I do know is that the problem is there and the answers given by you in this discussion seems to be that GM does not have enough resources to handle the amount of requests that are made.
What to do then? what we do who? we like to play legally, we have to endure to see a guy get rich while is at work?, during sleep? while socializing?, we work, sleep and socialize, but not leave the computer on.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.08.02 03:21:00 -
[54]
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Yes a petition is the best way to do it as Adida said. You cant just say these people are macro mining.
A few months ago i did a petition about those macro magnate missions runners. To help ccp you need to give ccp some evidence like Times you have seen them logged in, any attempts to convo them, were all these miners created at nearly the exact same time and all the same race? Do they have weird names? you really need to make sure you have good evidence before accusing them.
however none of the points you listed is good evidence.
- unlike you observe them 23/7 yourself, you have no evidence they are online 23/7
- if they dont respond to your convos then they simply dont want to talk to you
- why would the creation date matter, why should a miner be disallowed from multiboxing/multi accounting
- very subjective matter wether or not a name is weired to someone. And if it were a subject over that CCP bans player then the macroers would simple use more common names.
First post with your main.
* you may not have evidence they are on 24/7 but if you see them on in the morning and before you go to bed then that is suspecious.
*unless they physically reject your invite, then they arent there. Convo windows dont go away unless you tell them to by accpting or rejecting.
*If you were around for the magnate macro mission runners, you would have noticed that if 25 people all had creation dates and times within 3 mins of each other, something is up.
*bots and isk farmers dont bother to make real names 98% of the time. Most of them are face rolling across the keyboard.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.02 05:14:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk * you may not have evidence they are on 24/7 but if you see them on in the morning and before you go to bed then that is suspecious.
Why is it suspicious that other people are playing the same hours that you do?
Quote: *unless they physically reject your invite, then they arent there. Convo windows dont go away unless you tell them to by accpting or rejecting.
That one's almost valid. How long are you waiting to get a accept/reject notification? Remember that a Hulk that is fitted for maximum cargo capacity will take about 10 minutes to fill its hold.
Quote: *bots and isk farmers dont bother to make real names 98% of the time. Most of them are face rolling across the keyboard.
As long as you realize that not all ISK farmers are (a) macroers or (b) RMTers, you'll have gained a clearer understanding of the situation.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.02 05:25:00 -
[56]
Here is what I was doing:
Invite then to chat, Bump them out of range of their mining lasers, They fly back to the roids, The chat invite times out.
So given that I afk mine as well, I don't fly back to my rocks if I am not watching my screen.
TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times. Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. |
Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2010.08.02 06:35:00 -
[57]
Originally by: CCP Adida Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
a petition gets closed with the comment that ccp will look in to it. and thats the last you hear about it.
You cant even update your petition with more info/proof. most in-satisfying thing ever..
Thats next to petitioning plex problems. Where you get an awnser 2 3 days later while the plex has respawned 10 times already
Do not click this ad. |
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.08.02 06:45:00 -
[58]
It is very amusing how the people who submit a petition on macromining and see no action taken assume that:
1. There is no way in hell they were mistaken
2. That because of 1, it necessarily follows that their petition was ignored.
The problem of course isn't in the conclusion, its in the first premise.
Originally by: Dr Reinhold Eve is the endgame. Every other game you have played has just been preparation for this.
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Kallehd
Caldari Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.02 07:19:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
*unless they physically reject your invite, then they arent there. Convo windows dont go away unless you tell them to by accpting or rejecting.
Well, I have auto-reject convos on most of my eve clients! How does that work for your macro trial checkbox? :) Why? Because if I really need to talk to someone, it will be someone in my corp/alliance, in which I'm already in the right channel for that!
Originally by: Mara Rinn That one's almost valid. How long are you waiting to get a accept/reject notification? Remember that a Hulk that is fitted for maximum cargo capacity will take about 10 minutes to fill its hold.
This is almost true, as my Hulk is fitted for max cargo, with max skills, with a +3% yield hardwire and I take about 18 minutes to fill it up. Sure, the raw numbers say it should take 10m but that doesn't account for roids popping (and don't even get me started on rock scanners as that is totally useless, at least for me :P), travel times, rats that might and will appear (if you're mining in 0.5) and other crap like morons trying to bump you into deadspace!
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Here is what I was doing:
Invite then to chat, Bump them out of range of their mining lasers, They fly back to the roids, The chat invite times out.
So given that I afk mine as well, I don't fly back to my rocks if I am not watching my screen.
Mate, we're in the same Alliance and by your "standards", I'm a macro, as I'll obviously fly back to the asteroids if you bump me enough. Should I say something? Will it really help to give out tears on local to an unknown moron that's getting his kicks from bumping you? If I know EVE, the more fuss I make about it, the more he'll do it. Just ignore them and they'll leave. Invites to chat with me, as you know, are rejected.
I do understand there must be ways to make the macroers stand out, but you people MUST remember that there are actual miners out there doing mining all day long. Why? Because they can! It's mind numbing? Don't do it! :) Every time I see someone go out of their way to try and make me present proof I'm not macroing, I feel the game is going sideways and there's something wrong.
Originally by: Garia666 a petition gets closed with the comment that ccp will look in to it. and thats the last you hear about it.
Try to think about the amount of people reporting other legit miners just because they're "mining in my system". They tell the other miner to leave, bump him, but he's still mining your precious little rocks, so you report him as a macro. He's doing the exact same thing you're doing, except he couldn't care less about you.
In my previous post I said that on that day I was reported as a macro by a rival mining corp. When I spoke to the player in local, after petitioning him for harassment, he told me he did it just to see my reaction because he had been watching me and knew I wasn't a macro.
When you filter out the trigger happy petition writers, competition elimination petitions and just plain stupid "I want to see your reaction" petitions, maybe then the real work can be done!
Just felt the need to remind people again that there are actual people mining in EVE! You're not alone and everyone else is NOT a macro! Stop putting into your head people must prove they are "real" as it's the other way around.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2010.08.02 10:06:00 -
[60]
It couldn't hurt some of you to read up on your history.
Report them and if you don't see any results, be glad it takes more than a players word to get an account banned. Something you'll enjoy should you find yourself on the receiving end.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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