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Mors Hades
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:13:00 -
[1]
Is this phrase a reality?, It seems so.
I have several years in the game and I'm a miner among other things, some time since I've noticed that despite having sent several petitions, the GM`s does not seem to mind the fact that there are Macros mining, and seem to all use the same message response.
MACROS I have reported for over a month still are quietly mining.
The most surprising of all, many of which had reported MACROS months ago and who had allegedly left the game have returned to their old tricks!
So, what happens? The MACROMINERS are now legal in EVE?, CCP lost the fight?. legal miners are not sufficient to sustain the market? or would rise much ore price?
It's a shame who are neglecting this aspect of the game ...
ahh certainly not going to use my main character, all MACROMINERS will haunt me!
(English is not my native language so please excuse any omission)
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CCP Adida
C C P
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:16:00 -
[2]
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
Adida
Community Rep
CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:18:00 -
[3]
My guess is they get hit 24/7 with false macro miner reports, and it makes it easier for anyone who really does it to get away with it.
Not responding to insults in local? Must be a macro miner.
Hasn't moved in 5 minutes? Must be a macro miner.
That appears to be the extent of the decision process, before reporting one.
My deepest sympathies.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
oil
Double-L
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:19:00 -
[4]
mr adida whats your stance on the 90 % botpopulation in the drone lands? no i have no proof thats the real percentage but next to everybobdy knows whats going on.
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Simply Human
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:24:00 -
[5]
How can you prove they're using a macro?
CCP isn't going to ban everyone that doesn't like you. |
REQUIN TIRAN
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:24:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
CCP Adida, that was exactly what I did, and nothing happened, how many requests I have to send? 10? 100?, With one does not seem enough ...
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Cone Filler
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:25:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Cone Filler on 01/08/2010 15:25:21
Originally by: oil
mr adida whats your stance on the 90 % botpopulation in the drone lands? no i have no proof thats the real percentage but next to everybobdy knows whats going on.
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
****** lol
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Smelly Bait
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
What about macro npc'ing/ratting? I have heard that this isnt vs eula because u gain the same amount of resources in the same amount of time u can gather them without macro's.
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Claude Hopper
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:27:00 -
[9]
Watch them for 15 minutes then check server logs?
Not exactly rocket science :P
CCP don't care because they've found their master plan to kill the out of game ISK market, the rest is just flies hitting their windscreen. |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Smelly Bait
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
What about macro npc'ing/ratting? I have heard that this isnt vs eula because u gain the same amount of resources in the same amount of time u can gather them without macro's.
Except most people can't rat/run missions 23/7.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
I agree with that, however according to the information provided by the OP, and everything I have ever seen, it appears to be "decriminalized".
This is clearly a signature. |
Mors Hades
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
that's the official response? that's what I've been doing for months!, not you read what I wrote?, is the same as ever, you guys always says you are taking care of the matter but nothing happens.
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Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis
Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
I agree with that, however according to the information provided by the OP, and everything I have ever seen, it appears to be "decriminalized".
I've reported macro miners who nothing has happened to...ever
My macro test? Well I invite them to fleet ... no response. I invite them to chat ... no response. I bump them away from the rocks no response. No drones. I fleet invite ... no response. I chat request ... no response. I bump them away ... no response.
I don't care if they ignore me in local. I've gotten mining rigs and mined their rocks ... no response.
Submit a petition is a joke, I can understand it takes time to investigate, but 3 weeks later they are still there.
TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times.
Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. |
Cone Filler
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:37:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Cone Filler on 01/08/2010 15:38:43
Edited by: Cone Filler on 01/08/2010 15:37:36
Originally by: Smelly Bait
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
What about macro npc'ing/ratting? I have heard that this isnt vs eula because u gain the same amount of resources in the same amount of time u can gather them without macro's.
Originally by: EULA
Section 7.3 : You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
bolded the important part hence this response
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:38:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 01/08/2010 15:41:41
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
I agree with that, however according to the information provided by the OP, and everything I have ever seen, it appears to be "decriminalized".
I've reported macro miners who nothing has happened to...ever
My macro test? Well I invite them to fleet ... no response. I invite them to chat ... no response. I bump them away from the rocks no response. No drones. I fleet invite ... no response. I chat request ... no response. I bump them away ... no response.
I don't care if they ignore me in local. I've gotten mining rigs and mined their rocks ... no response.
Submit a petition is a joke, I can understand it takes time to investigate, but 3 weeks later they are still there.
Your error is assuming miners sit there and stare at their lasers for hours, or care about you enough to chat.
When i used to mine i was often alt tabbed and surfing websites, or even gone to the store to pick something up. I'd be interested in knowing how many "OMG MACROMINER" petitions were submitted in his name. Sometimes i'd return to see my ship had been bumped, which we all know is damning evidence of macros being used.
My deepest sympathies.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis
Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:46:00 -
[16]
Sorry let me be clear,
When bumped out of range of the rocks, they fly back to the rocks.
I can't accept that a player would sit there and not respond in some way. At LEAST they would reject the chat request, or block me as a player.
I do not think Macro mining is legal in EvE, I just think that they do not fully investigate anything but the most egregious macro miners.
TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times.
Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. |
Mors Hades
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Simply Human
How can you prove they're using a macro?
CCP isn't going to ban everyone that doesn't like you.
I just do not see a guy alone and I report he`s a Macrominer, i spend days until I am sure it is a MACRO, i sent invitations to chat, fleet, etc, and if no response for several days, I report it as a possible macro.
No player can be 100% sure that other is a MACRO, but for that we have CCP right?
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
My macro test? [stuff]
Does your test involve sitting there and watching them for 10-20 minutes waiting for a reply, or are the miners supposed to acknowledge your annoyances within your own attention span?
The funniest part of this is that most of the people I've ever seen bump my ships away from asteroids have had stuff in their bio about the macrointel channel, but they never appear on that channel. So when someone bumps me, tries to invite me to chat, says hello in local, and threatens to get macrointel on my case, who am I to believe - the person doing the bumping or the folks in macrointel?
In many cases they lose interest after a couple of minutes - usually before my Hulk has completed two cycles with the strip miners.
So I'd just like to make sure - have you guys claiming to have found macro miners actually hung around for any length of time, or are you convinced after two minutes and twenty seven seconds that this miner is a macro because they aren't answering your ultra-important prompting?
--
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Catherine Griffin
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:55:00 -
[19]
Yes well I've seen too many 23/7 miners that are ALWAYS in the same system, never use drones, always target the closest ores, just take on the ore you're mining whan it happens to be the closest, never ever react to convos ..
I guess CCP has no way to prove someone is a macro miner and they lack the manpower to really go after it (like many other things). So sure, "officially" it's not allowed but in the meantime ...
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Tam Althor
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Posted - 2010.08.01 16:11:00 -
[20]
As much as I don't like what CCP is not doing for the game these days, banning of macro's is something that they do very well. Do a search for "Unholy Rage" just one of many mass bans of macros. CCP likes to build up a big list of accounts being used for macro mining and missioning, then follow the ISK to the ISK sellers. When they have the network identified there are mass bans that range from a few hundred accounts to a few thousand accounts.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.08.01 16:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
I agree with that, however according to the information provided by the OP, and everything I have ever seen, it appears to be "decriminalized".
I've reported macro miners who nothing has happened to...ever
My macro test? Well I invite them to fleet ... no response. I invite them to chat ... no response. I bump them away from the rocks no response. No drones. I fleet invite ... no response. I chat request ... no response. I bump them away ... no response.
I don't care if they ignore me in local. I've gotten mining rigs and mined their rocks ... no response.
Submit a petition is a joke, I can understand it takes time to investigate, but 3 weeks later they are still there.
The REAL test:
Suicide their ship.
If they hang there - possibly a macro or fell asleep.
If the pod is going back to the station, docking, and coming back to the belt on an interval, then that is certainly a macro. Fraps that and send the link to the youtube with the petition.
And yes, all miners should start the practice of suicide ganking other miners that they suspect are macros. Are your drones not killing enough belts rats that your security status can't survive a hit once in a while?
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Mors Hades
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Posted - 2010.08.01 16:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tam Althor
As much as I don't like what CCP is not doing for the game these days, banning of macro's is something that they do very well. Do a search for "Unholy Rage" just one of many mass bans of macros. CCP likes to build up a big list of accounts being used for macro mining and missioning, then follow the ISK to the ISK sellers. When they have the network identified there are mass bans that range from a few hundred accounts to a few thousand accounts.
I do not think that is so, Why i see this MACROS come back again?, Macros that i believed CCP had removed from the game?, and now they are in others systems and have even come back to where I mining?
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.08.01 16:22:00 -
[23]
They may not be legal but unless the player's account is involved in RMT, you know selling isk for $ then they are unlikely to be pursued/punished at least not with any speed. CCP's primary interest in RMT accounts, buyers/sellers/etc and of course hackers, then everything else they have to deal with over some player doing what a person could do if they had no job/life/were on crack.
The macro miner basically gets away with it as there are no easy ways for players to verify that it isn't a person. CCP can send a dev/gm out there to threaten them if they don't respond etc. Even that doesn't mean a person would believe that CCP was out in space threatening their account if they didn't acknowledge their humanity.
There is/was something in the EULA about not being permitted to use 3rd party programs that would allow you to gain an advantage over other players or accelerate game play. So a macro mining program that works just as you would do if you were there mining isn't against the EULA, AFAIK.
Personally I gave up reporting macro's, yes I monitored them for hours, days, weeks, and noted they worked 23/7 or at least everytime I was on, occasionally acted like broken macros, when I was in that system for a long period of time.
IT is far too easy to check those non-existent logs to see what accounts are on say 20+ hours nearly everyday and pop in to see they are mining, then look at where their isk goes. Are they spending the isk themselves or sending it over to another account all the time if that is the case then they might be a macro. CCP has the tools to go after people macro mining that they don't is for any number of reasons real or made up.
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5 minute forum time delay is a crime against humanity. |
Genya Arikaido
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Posted - 2010.08.01 16:40:00 -
[24]
I've stopped petitioning these asshats a long time ago. CCP does nothing about them, instead, they expect us to fix the problem via suicide ganking...which is oddly satisfying. :P
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
my bad.
Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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Jonna Bluemoon
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Posted - 2010.08.01 16:43:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
Account sharing aint eather, but practically every large corporation and large alliances are sharing ceo accounts, jf accounts etc etc...
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Aessoroz
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Posted - 2010.08.01 16:44:00 -
[26]
Quote:
You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items
That doesn't cover intelligent bots :D
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.08.01 17:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
It may not be "legal", but as long as one isn't engaged in RMTing, there certainly dont seem to be any consequences for doing it.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
mia mia
Caldari
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.08.01 17:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Malcanis
It may not be "legal", but as long as one isn't engaged in RMTing, there certainly dont seem to be any consequences for doing it.
It would be interesting to see how many accounts get banned on a regular basis for this kind of stuff.
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari
Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.08.01 17:24:00 -
[29]
I once reported macor miners. They're still macromining. Only moved to another system.
--
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
-John Wooden |
gfldex
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Posted - 2010.08.01 17:37:00 -
[30]
Quite a few ppl in this thread imply that removing the macro miner in the moment he is reported is the right way to go.
Interweb forumses would be a much better place if more ppl would actively use their brains.
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.08.01 17:50:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Bhattran on 01/08/2010 17:50:07
Originally by: gfldex
Quite a few ppl in this thread imply that removing the macro miner in the moment he is reported is the right way to go.
Interweb forumses would be a much better place if more ppl would actively use their brains.
I don't see that, I see 'rage' that the suspects are reported over and over and CCP appears not to do anything about it, ie they don't investigate or finding nothing do not tell players through the petition, if it is kept open for that long that the matter is settled. One would think that a macro suspect would accumulate a history of getting reported and once confirmed/proven innocent future concerns could get looked into by CCP more quickly. The way it works seems to support macro'ing is fine so long as you don't hack the game or RMT.
I think anyone in EVE can see the dangers of banning players based on other players reportsm that isn't the way to do it.
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5 minute forum time delay is a crime against humanity. |
ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.08.01 17:59:00 -
[32]
topics like this always remind me of when i was playing unreal tournament and every second match i would be yelled at for being a cheater and aimbotter and what not. people tend to very quickly accuse people of stuff and make up artifical "100% accurate" rules of what behaviour constitutes towards cheating/macroing.
the thing is when u reported someone and he still in the game a few weeks later, most propably the GM came to the conclusion that it was a false accusation.
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Legs Mackenzie
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:01:00 -
[33]
Removing macroers removes revenue streams!
Shhesh, I'd have thought their position was obvious on this. 
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ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
Removing macroers removes revenue streams!
Shhesh, I'd have thought their position was obvious on this.
sure thats why they have banned 17.000(?) accounts earlier this year in their holy rage campaign. because they felt their revenue was too high. |
gfldex
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Bhattran
RMT
There we go. Now keep your brain going! If the macro miner is affiliated or operated by a RMTer, when do you want to ban that char? And no, right away is not the right answer.
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Legs Mackenzie
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
Removing macroers removes revenue streams!
Shhesh, I'd have thought their position was obvious on this.
sure thats why they have banned 17.000(?) accounts earlier this year in their holy rage campaign. because they felt their revenue was too high.
You mean a year ago?
Maybe it's just my recent change in optics, from rose-tinted, to jaded; but I'm fairly certain the data would support that banning macroers decresases subscription revenue.
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oniplE
MeMento.
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:26:00 -
[37]
At first sight you'd suspect a conflict of interest: banning the macro's means less revenue for CCP. But if you look at the previous unholy rage campaign, you see the average CPU use per pilot dropped 30% after the banning of 6.200 accounts. That means the server will be able to handle more people, which saves CCP money in server expansion/maintenance. Now we have to find out if 6.200 macro accounts (about a million dollars a year) are more profitable than a server with 30% more power. Will CCP "buy" 30% more cpu cycles for 1 million dollars? (muhaha, one million dollars!!!, sorry..)
x |
ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:27:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
Originally by: Legs Mackenzie
Removing macroers removes revenue streams!
Shhesh, I'd have thought their position was obvious on this.
sure thats why they have banned 17.000(?) accounts earlier this year in their holy rage campaign. because they felt their revenue was too high.
You mean a year ago?
Maybe it's just my recent change in optics, from rose-tinted, to jaded; but I'm fairly certain the data would support that banning macroers decresases subscription revenue.
and that they do it anyways and even in huge masses is a testiment that they are willing to take a loss for removing macroers from the game. |
Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis
Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:35:00 -
[39]
I was unaware of this blog:
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=687
Thank you CCP and those above who linked it.
To the OP imagine if there are 6200 Macrominers that they banned in one event, then they likely sifted those from a reported list of say up to 10,000 or 20,000? due to the nature of the ban, a CCP employee must review each cast. Say it takes 30 minutes to thoroughly investigate someone, likely more, but for sake of argument, then that would take up to 10,000 hours of real time for 20,000 people reported.
I am guessing, and it is unlikely that CCP will tell us HOW they do it, is that they review the people who are reported MOST, so reporting is like voting. Remember report early and often : )
Best,
Apollo
PS I've edited my previous posts in this thread to reflect my new level of understanding.
TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times.
Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. |
REQUIN TIRAN
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:36:00 -
[40]
Originally by: oniplE
At first sight you'd suspect a conflict of interest: banning the macro's means less revenue for CCP. But if you look at the previous unholy rage campaign, you see the average CPU use per pilot dropped 30% after the banning of 6.200 accounts. That means the server will be able to handle more people, which saves CCP money in server expansion/maintenance. Now we have to find out if 6.200 macro accounts (about a million dollars a year) are more profitable than a server with 30% more power. Will CCP "buy" 30% more cpu cycles for 1 million dollars? (muhaha, one million dollars!!!, sorry..)
this is a reasonable argument that could be happening, seeing the big picture, EVE is a business and is made to make money, period.
That the community feels "uncomfortable" with the macros is irrelevant. but it will be good to see even when that dissent will be ignored and if this has an impact on the game or not.
Unholy Rage is only a "pest control" for when things get out a bit from the hands of CCP
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democrities
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:37:00 -
[41]
Edited by: democrities on 01/08/2010 18:38:18
I dont think its macromining is legal as it is so much that the GMs are just lazy people who wont do their job. For example,
I submitted petitions twice, once because someone was trying to lag me and a corp mate out by spamming chat requests and then making racist comments towards me. Petitioned it, got the generic "we will investigate" response, and they did NOTHING.
2nd petition: I petitioned a guys character name because a guy literally had a racial ephitet for african americans as a name.
Got generic reply. again, NOTHING dont, he still has the name.
So yeah, the ingame GMs are just lazy.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.08.01 20:14:00 -
[42]
Originally by: REQUIN TIRAN
this is a reasonable argument that could be happening, seeing the big picture, EVE is a business and is made to make money, period.
That the community feels "uncomfortable" with the macros is irrelevant.
No, it's not particularly irrelevant.
The reason the community feels "uncomfortable" is because macros aren't allowed. If CCP is a business that wants to keep onà well, doing businessà they need to uphold the rules they themselves have set out, or they won't have any customers for the simple reason that people expect that everyone should be held to the same standard. If macroers are allowed to break the rules, then so should I be.
So, the question is: do CCP want to lose 350k accounts to keep those 6k+ macroers happy?
Or, to put it on a more personal level, would you prefer it if I started calling your family particularly nasty things and makingà let's sayà "interesting" conclusions on your proclivities (sexual and otherwise) because I didn't like the cut of your jib, and if I then took over your account and trashed it? After all, none of the rules that prohibit any of that are actually worth enforcing ù doing so would make CCP lose customers, and again: if they choose to ignore their own rules in one area, why on earth should they adhere to them in other areas?
So no, it's not a reasonable argument that CCP lets people ignore the rules, just because kicking those cheaters out would reduce profits.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.08.01 22:06:00 -
[43]
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Bhattran
RMT
There we go. Now keep your brain going! If the macro miner is affiliated or operated by a RMTer, when do you want to ban that char? And no, right away is not the right answer.
I'm sorry are you suggesting CCP tacitly approves all macro mining and lets it continue as entrapment for the day when/if they decide to RMT as they have been 'getting away' with it and accumulate so much isk they decide to try and sell it or maybe get hacked then become pawns in a RMT operation?
If someone is involved in RMT yes you want to watch them for a time to connect the dots and knock down/out more RMT accounts I don't have a problem with that, anyone who thinks about it really shouldn't either as it is helpful to have 'eyes' on someone.
There are two different issues with macro mining, people get it confused seeing macro mining=rmt and it doesn't always work like that. A player can macro mine and keep all the isk for themselves, no RMT, according the the cited EULA on the first page it is 'cool'.
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5 minute forum time delay is a crime against humanity. |
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.08.01 22:30:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Malcanis
It may not be "legal", but as long as one isn't engaged in RMTing, there certainly dont seem to be any consequences for doing it.
This. CCP cracks down on the big organized RMT operations, but Joe Blow running his mining/ratting bot while he goes to work/sleeps seems to get away with it. |
Kallehd
Caldari
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2010.08.01 22:36:00 -
[45]
Well, being a miner, I have some strong feelings about all this topic.
Regarding macros... anyone out mining 23/7 for more than 7 days should be banned. Period! No human can be working on 1h sleep for that amount of time and not be brain dead already. Besides that, there's little to no way of proving anything, as macros tend to work in the most efficient way .... as dedicated miners also do!
Yesterday I was emailed, with the guy telling me I was a chinese macro. I told him I was actually Portuguese! :D Any did he supposedly reported me? I auto-rejected convo and didn't reply in local and was playing all afternoon long! After about 6h of mining, he decided I was a macro and reported me.
Well mates, I need to ask every single one of you guys in this thread who gave out theories about finding macroers. How the hell do you know? The only sure way I saw here is suiciding and if his pod keeps coming back, then it's a macro! Otherwise? You have no way in hell to know.
I've seen people complain about me using 200km+ bookmarks, because that's the way of the macro. Well mates, it's the way of the miner too as exhumers aren't exactly the most agile ships on the market. Seen them complain about me being out alone, going to station and coming back, time and time again. Again, can someone please tell how to mine solo without going back and forth? GSC? my hulk holds about 18k cargo, so if there's a secure container I don't know about, let me know!
And regarding activity. Not respoding to your convos? Well probably I'm not looking at the game! How many of you have actually mined more than a couple of hours? I check EVE every 5m and after 20 warp to station to unload. Normally I'm watching TV, a movie or actually playing another game in window mode (Alien Swarm anyone? :P). What the hell are you people expecting? Every single miner looking at the pretty lights and checking local every second? This is high-sec mining... not rocket science! It's a 95% passive activity!
Get a grip before going all out and reporting everyone out in a belt. Not everyone cares, not everyone wants to respond. Why would they feel the need to prove to you they are not a macro? It's the other way around mates... you need to prove that they are in fact breaking the rules! I feel ****ed at this as it's not the first time I have to actually go out of my way to "prove" I'm at the computer! WAKE UP! MINERS ARE IDLERS BY NATURE!! 
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.01 22:42:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kallehd
No human can be working on 1h sleep for that amount of time and not be brain dead already.
Cough...
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
_
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Kallehd
Caldari
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2010.08.01 23:05:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kallehd
No human can be working on 1h sleep for that amount of time and not be brain dead already.
Cough...
Ok  So just get CCP his username and everyone else gets it!
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.08.01 23:16:00 -
[48]
Yes a petition is the best way to do it as Adida said. You cant just say these people are macro mining.
A few months ago i did a petition about those macro magnate missions runners. To help ccp you need to give ccp some evidence like
Times you have seen them logged in,
any attempts to convo them,
were all these miners created at nearly the exact same time and all the same race?
Do they have weird names?
you really need to make sure you have good evidence before accusing them.
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ThisIsNotMyAlt
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Posted - 2010.08.01 23:23:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Yes a petition is the best way to do it as Adida said. You cant just say these people are macro mining.
A few months ago i did a petition about those macro magnate missions runners. To help ccp you need to give ccp some evidence like
Times you have seen them logged in,
any attempts to convo them,
were all these miners created at nearly the exact same time and all the same race?
Do they have weird names?
you really need to make sure you have good evidence before accusing them.
however none of the points you listed is good evidence.
- unlike you observe them 23/7 yourself, you have no evidence they are online 23/7
- if they dont respond to your convos then they simply dont want to talk to you
- why would the creation date matter, why should a miner be disallowed from multiboxing/multi accounting
- very subjective matter wether or not a name is weired to someone. And if it were a subject over that CCP bans player then the macroers would simple use more common names.
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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2010.08.01 23:51:00 -
[50]
Or maybe it is just some kind of brain defect which you get if you stare for too long at your mining laser. First you start to see macro miners EVERYWHERE!! And then you start to get the whole picture and the truth that CCP is behind all this....
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please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately. |
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Bella Yar
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Posted - 2010.08.02 00:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Mors Hades
some time since I've noticed that despite having sent several petitions, the GM`s does not seem to mind the fact that there are Macros mining, and seem to all use the same message response.
MACROS I have reported for over a month still are quietly mining.
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
CCP Adida phail
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.02 03:13:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Bella Yar
CCP Adida phail
The fact that someone submitted a petition because a miner didn't respond to their irritating presence in game does not necessarily correlate to that miner being a macroer.
Submit petitions when you think you see someone who is macro mining, then leave it be.
The best way to deal with macro mining is, of course, to blow up the offending ship and pod the pilot. The catch being that most people would prefer to simply post on the forums about how they watched this guy macro mining, rather than take the necessary action themselves.
--
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Mors Hades
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Posted - 2010.08.02 03:14:00 -
[53]
The problem is not like having an effective way to find out who is a macro or not, it is clear that no one can be 100% sure, but there are circumstances that lead us to suspect very seriously.
I do not agree with those who do it with just a few signs, such as not responding, or not accepting an invitation or seeing a guy mining several hours, you have to spend several days watching the behavior of these people and if after this is a REASONABLE DOUBT that it can be a macro, make a petition.
What is worrying about this is that there seems to be a mechanism sufficiently agile and effective, don`t know how complicated it can be for a GM to identify a macro, don`t know how long the process took, but I do know is that the problem is there and the answers given by you in this discussion seems to be that GM does not have enough resources to handle the amount of requests that are made.
What to do then? what we do who? we like to play legally, we have to endure to see a guy get rich while is at work?, during sleep? while socializing?, we work, sleep and socialize, but not leave the computer on.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.08.02 03:21:00 -
[54]
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Yes a petition is the best way to do it as Adida said. You cant just say these people are macro mining.
A few months ago i did a petition about those macro magnate missions runners. To help ccp you need to give ccp some evidence like
Times you have seen them logged in,
any attempts to convo them,
were all these miners created at nearly the exact same time and all the same race?
Do they have weird names?
you really need to make sure you have good evidence before accusing them.
however none of the points you listed is good evidence.
- unlike you observe them 23/7 yourself, you have no evidence they are online 23/7
- if they dont respond to your convos then they simply dont want to talk to you
- why would the creation date matter, why should a miner be disallowed from multiboxing/multi accounting
- very subjective matter wether or not a name is weired to someone. And if it were a subject over that CCP bans player then the macroers would simple use more common names.
First post with your main.
* you may not have evidence they are on 24/7 but if you see them on in the morning and before you go to bed then that is suspecious.
*unless they physically reject your invite, then they arent there. Convo windows dont go away unless you tell them to by accpting or rejecting.
*If you were around for the magnate macro mission runners, you would have noticed that if 25 people all had creation dates and times within 3 mins of each other, something is up.
*bots and isk farmers dont bother to make real names 98% of the time. Most of them are face rolling across the keyboard.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.02 05:14:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
* you may not have evidence they are on 24/7 but if you see them on in the morning and before you go to bed then that is suspecious.
Why is it suspicious that other people are playing the same hours that you do?
Quote:
*unless they physically reject your invite, then they arent there. Convo windows dont go away unless you tell them to by accpting or rejecting.
That one's almost valid. How long are you waiting to get a accept/reject notification? Remember that a Hulk that is fitted for maximum cargo capacity will take about 10 minutes to fill its hold.
Quote:
*bots and isk farmers dont bother to make real names 98% of the time. Most of them are face rolling across the keyboard.
As long as you realize that not all ISK farmers are (a) macroers or (b) RMTers, you'll have gained a clearer understanding of the situation.
--
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis
Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.02 05:25:00 -
[56]
Here is what I was doing:
Invite then to chat,
Bump them out of range of their mining lasers,
They fly back to the roids,
The chat invite times out.
So given that I afk mine as well, I don't fly back to my rocks if I am not watching my screen.
TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times.
Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2010.08.02 06:35:00 -
[57]
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
a petition gets closed with the comment that ccp will look in to it.
and thats the last you hear about it.
You cant even update your petition with more info/proof.
most in-satisfying thing ever..
Thats next to petitioning plex problems. Where you get an awnser 2 3 days later while the plex has respawned 10 times already
Do not click this ad. |
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.08.02 06:45:00 -
[58]
It is very amusing how the people who submit a petition on macromining and see no action taken assume that:
1. There is no way in hell they were mistaken
2. That because of 1, it necessarily follows that their petition was ignored.
The problem of course isn't in the conclusion, its in the first premise.
Originally by: Dr Reinhold
Eve is the endgame. Every other game you have played has just been preparation for this.
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Kallehd
Caldari
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.02 07:19:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
*unless they physically reject your invite, then they arent there. Convo windows dont go away unless you tell them to by accpting or rejecting.
Well, I have auto-reject convos on most of my eve clients! How does that work for your macro trial checkbox? :) Why? Because if I really need to talk to someone, it will be someone in my corp/alliance, in which I'm already in the right channel for that!
Originally by: Mara Rinn
That one's almost valid. How long are you waiting to get a accept/reject notification? Remember that a Hulk that is fitted for maximum cargo capacity will take about 10 minutes to fill its hold.
This is almost true, as my Hulk is fitted for max cargo, with max skills, with a +3% yield hardwire and I take about 18 minutes to fill it up. Sure, the raw numbers say it should take 10m but that doesn't account for roids popping (and don't even get me started on rock scanners as that is totally useless, at least for me :P), travel times, rats that might and will appear (if you're mining in 0.5) and other crap like morons trying to bump you into deadspace!
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Here is what I was doing:
Invite then to chat,
Bump them out of range of their mining lasers,
They fly back to the roids,
The chat invite times out.
So given that I afk mine as well, I don't fly back to my rocks if I am not watching my screen.
Mate, we're in the same Alliance and by your "standards", I'm a macro, as I'll obviously fly back to the asteroids if you bump me enough. Should I say something? Will it really help to give out tears on local to an unknown moron that's getting his kicks from bumping you? If I know EVE, the more fuss I make about it, the more he'll do it. Just ignore them and they'll leave. Invites to chat with me, as you know, are rejected.
I do understand there must be ways to make the macroers stand out, but you people MUST remember that there are actual miners out there doing mining all day long. Why? Because they can! It's mind numbing? Don't do it! :) Every time I see someone go out of their way to try and make me present proof I'm not macroing, I feel the game is going sideways and there's something wrong.
Originally by: Garia666
a petition gets closed with the comment that ccp will look in to it.
and thats the last you hear about it.
Try to think about the amount of people reporting other legit miners just because they're "mining in my system". They tell the other miner to leave, bump him, but he's still mining your precious little rocks, so you report him as a macro. He's doing the exact same thing you're doing, except he couldn't care less about you.
In my previous post I said that on that day I was reported as a macro by a rival mining corp. When I spoke to the player in local, after petitioning him for harassment, he told me he did it just to see my reaction because he had been watching me and knew I wasn't a macro.
When you filter out the trigger happy petition writers, competition elimination petitions and just plain stupid "I want to see your reaction" petitions, maybe then the real work can be done!
Just felt the need to remind people again that there are actual people mining in EVE! You're not alone and everyone else is NOT a macro! Stop putting into your head people must prove they are "real" as it's the other way around.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2010.08.02 10:06:00 -
[60]
It couldn't hurt some of you to read up on your history.
Report them and if you don't see any results, be glad it takes more than a players word to get an account banned. Something you'll enjoy should you find yourself on the receiving end.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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AzureStorms
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.08.02 10:37:00 -
[61]
Anyone else see the irony in the "OMG HE MINERS 23/7 HE MUST BE A MACRO USER" arguement? I mean in order to actually know yourself they are on 23/7 you would have to play 23/7 yourself thus voiding the arguement.
Also, can't you use keep at distance on a rock you are not mining to keep yourself in range? Someone bumps you and you just travel right back to your original spot or close to it.
------------------------
Nothing is ever easy
Dance with me death, I am ready
"Death is a side effect of logging on."
-Phoenixheart- |
Richard Christy
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Posted - 2010.08.02 10:53:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Catherine Griffin
I guess CCP has no way to prove someone is a macro miner and they lack the manpower to really go after it (like many other things). So sure, "officially" it's not allowed but in the meantime ...
It baffles me that there are no log (yeah, we know, they show nothing) tools that show a character's assets increasing consistently for 23 hours a day, 7 days a week. At this stage it's comical at best, downright disturbing at worst.
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.08.02 11:13:00 -
[63]
If CCP doesn't care, why should you?
Just suicide gank them and get it over with.
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.08.02 12:07:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Sorry let me be clear,
When bumped out of range of the rocks, they fly back to the rocks.
I can't accept that a player would sit there and not respond in some way. At LEAST they would reject the chat request, or block me as a player.
I do not think Macro mining is legal in EvE, I just think that they do not fully investigate anything but the most egregious macro miners.
I've done some (lots) of afk mining and I sure wouldn't answer you. What would be the point exactly?
I think pre-emptively (or whatever, damage control) so I don't accept chat invites, I don't talk in local, I don't INTERACT. Because I like my mining ship. And would like to keep it.
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Leral
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.08.02 12:10:00 -
[65]
Can people use macros for other things than mining?
I usually hang around, mining my own business, in the Gamis system. Every now and then this guy warp in with a Rokh and starts salvaging. He (or she) does it very thoroughly, doesn't respond to chats and seems to waste a lot of time doing things that hardly can pay of (ISK-wise).
I get the feeling that this guy warps in cycles through all the asteroidbelts searching for things to salvage. If you can afford a Rokh, why waste time salvaging crap "23/7"?
Could he be a macro?
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XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
THE DISC
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:06:00 -
[66]
Not much will be done against most any type of macro unless it's a PR stunt. There is a small hive of macro's in nearby null sec where I reside that do belt ratting 23/7. Looked up the dotlan data on the systems to confirm that roughly the same large number of rats were being killed 23/7 across all the systems. Petitions were filed and nothing was done par usual.
However it has become a source of entertainment as the bots warp to pos as soon as someone enters local. Just logged off a few times in a belt with a dramiel and as the bots warp to a random belt every time was able to catch one. Have also set an alt cloaked in some of their systems for days on end eventually provoking the ire of one of the bot handlers .
TLDR : Bots and macros are here to stay, at least kill them for fun.
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Syn Callibri
Blacklight Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:14:00 -
[67]
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
...but naturally "The logs show nothing...", is it bad when you've seen a canned answer so many times that you memorize it?
Syn Callibri
Ilharess of the Scorpion Tribe
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Kangtar
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:17:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Leral
Can people use macros for other things than mining?
Pretty much anything can be, some easier than others. Mining, ratting, missioning and market trading seem to be the main four.
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DigiFusion
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:30:00 -
[69]
We pay the same subscription price the macroers do, why ban someone straight away when you can milk a bit more cash off them while you 'gather evidence' which a simple log check would reveal.
You still remove the isk from the game after a few subscription cycles but you're a few k richer for it and can catch a hell of alot more buyers as you get months to watch the wallet log and nuke their wallets into the minus.
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SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:37:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
So given that I afk mine as well, I don't fly back to my rocks if I am not watching my screen.
Step 1: Get a friend to make a bookmark, and approach it.
Step 2: Try to bump your friend away.
Step 3: Watch their ship automatically turn around and go back to the bookmark.
Step 4: Feel stupid.
Ye'llo? |
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FlameGlow
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:39:00 -
[71]
Unless the macroers get caught on RMT it'll take looooooooooooong time to ban them |
Xenuria
Gallente
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:45:00 -
[72]
Try to understand that from a game admin standpoint you are going to get thousands even millions of petitions on this one subject. Less then half of those petitions will be citing a player who is actually macro minning. Alot of players mine while watching tv or reading the news. I am one of them.
Also macro minning dose not have as much to do with the market as you think it dose. A bunch of bots in retrievers and ospreys are not going to devalue ore. The main contributes to the devaluation of ore are people that aren't bots who purposely undercut other people instead of staying within a general price bracket.
Even though macro minners account for a sizable portion of the minner population they do not actually produce near 20% of the ore that legit minners do. I am not defending the macro minners but I am saying that they are not the problem your looking for to blame on the cheap ore prices. You need to look inward for that.
"My name is legion, for we are many" |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Sorry let me be clear,
When bumped out of range of the rocks, they fly back to the rocks.
I can't accept that a player would sit there and not respond in some way. At LEAST they would reject the chat request, or block me as a player.
I do not think Macro mining is legal in EvE, I just think that they do not fully investigate anything but the most egregious macro miners.
I see no reason to speak to a idiot bumping you. You will only make him happy to have annoyed you.
Similarly, how you will know if you have been blocked? ESP?
Chat invite, fleet invite, great way to annoy someone and get blocked, bad way to test for macro.
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grrfsweld
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Posted - 2010.08.02 22:15:00 -
[74]
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
reported as troll, please refrain from trolling nice guys like OP. After all he is doing your job.
Terrible alt poster.
EVE Forum Police - keeping mods at bay |
Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis
Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.02 22:21:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Sorry let me be clear,
I can't accept that a player would sit there and not respond in some way. At LEAST they would reject the chat request, or block me as a player.
I see no reason to speak to a idiot bumping you. You will only make him happy to have annoyed you.
Similarly, how you will know if you have been blocked? ESP?
Chat invite, fleet invite, great way to annoy someone and get blocked, bad way to test for macro.
I have in the past been informed that I was being blocked, that was my ESP.
I accept that there are miners who simply choose to completely ignore people. I got into quite a long and somewhat heated conversation with the bloke above in my alliance about macro miners and just ignoring all requests until they time out. Perhaps that is what is really happening here. As to the AFK miners, you have a distinct difference when it comes to play, you are inefficient. You occasionally come back to the machine and say oops there wasn't enough and my lasers turned off. That is a measurable metric of macro miners, the minimum dead time.
Again, I am NOT saying all people who ignore you are macro miners. I do believe as I mentioned above that CCP takes the issue seriously.
Apollo
TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times.
Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.02 22:42:00 -
[76]
Clicking the button to make the chat request go away seems to me too much like acknowledging the wannabe pirate's existence. Drag the window off the edge of the screen, get back to moving cargo.
I have a timer which tells me to get back inside from hanging out washing or whatever and move cargo across. I've not missed a cycle while mining or harvesting ice for quite some time. At the same time, I have housework I want to get done, and I've promised the other half that this housework will be done before we have to go out to the movies/dinner/whatever.
Now about the claim that many reported macrominers who had "left the game" are now back to their old tricks... you know they've left the game? how?
--
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.08.02 22:53:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Clicking the button to make the chat request go away seems to me too much like acknowledging the wannabe pirate's existence. Drag the window off the edge of the screen, get back to moving cargo.
I have a timer which tells me to get back inside from hanging out washing or whatever and move cargo across. I've not missed a cycle while mining or harvesting ice for quite some time. At the same time, I have housework I want to get done, and I've promised the other half that this housework will be done before we have to go out to the movies/dinner/whatever.
Now about the claim that many reported macrominers who had "left the game" are now back to their old tricks... you know they've left the game? how?
You dont think anybody actually believes any of that do you?
Your a macro miner, and your making up a really terrible story to cover it up
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2010.08.02 23:23:00 -
[78]
Get rid of the fixed belts and make them all grav sites that have to be sacnned down. Make them so small they can be mined out in an hour or less with a perfect fit hulk.
I'd like to see a macro written that can work the scanner interface, moving probes around, zooming in and out of the map, nailing the site to 100%....
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2010.08.02 23:41:00 -
[79]
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
Originally by: oil
mr adida whats your stance on the 90 % botpopulation in the drone lands? no i have no proof thats the real percentage but next to everybobdy knows whats going on.
Plausible denial
It's a legitimate revenue source.
If a botter is so blatent and obvious 5 other paying customers are petitioning him... it behooves CCP to ban that particular character.
However if people aren't petitioning all the other accounts, even if they know they are there cheating and ruining the economy.... why actively pursue and throw away a paying account?
You seem to think CCP is out to do the right thing.
I used to be naive and think that is where their interests lay too.
The truth is, they give the illusion they want whats right (it's a rule! no cheating) and then just go about business directing no resources or effort to actually catching the people doing it.
Now RMT is a bit different, they are losing out on being the middle man there so they do go after those guys. Everything else is fair game.
---
Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Ivas Tiffy
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.02 23:49:00 -
[80]
a HUGE sign of a macroer is... they warp to a belt at 200km then to the nearest roid and start mining then dock up and unload to repeat. soem warp to different belts etc.
if a macro miner or a mission runner is one around 23 hours a day they are cheating. either account sharing or using a macro.
and thanks to ccp's insta corp hop its nearly impossible to war dec such idiots.
Go ahead and clap. Mediocrity deserves applause. Why don't we go find Pandemic Legion and clap around them! |
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Yodabunny
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.03 00:28:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Catherine Griffin
Yes well I've seen too many 23/7 miners that are ALWAYS in the same system, never use drones, always target the closest ores, just take on the ore you're mining whan it happens to be the closest, never ever react to convos ..
I guess CCP has no way to prove someone is a macro miner and they lack the manpower to really go after it (like many other things). So sure, "officially" it's not allowed but in the meantime ...
Couple of problems here. You're not on 23/7 so you don't know.
I personally only launch drones if I'm attacked, heck if the rats aren't hurting me I don't even bother. I always target the closest ores, because mining ships are SLOW. I probably take other people's rocks on occasion too, because I can't see the rocks when I mine. My screen generally has other crap on it and all of my mining is done via the overview. Oh, and another little trick, I warp directly to the rocks I'm going to mine. *GASP*. Oh and I ignore chat requests, don't have local up, and ignore fleet requests from anyone I don't know, because I don't care if you think I'm a macro and I'd rather not put my book down to talk to you. I must be a macro.
I'm not saying the miners you are seeing aren't macros. I'm saying you don't know, and can't know.
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Sisohiv
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Posted - 2010.08.03 00:30:00 -
[82]
Most macro miners mine Ice. Being a capsuleer with Ice mining skills I can say I dont blame them a bit.
300 seconds to mine 4 Ice in a mackinaw. Thats 48 an hr. They sell for 100K outright. 4.8 mill an hr to sit there like a lump of **** waiting for someone to get bored and suicide me.
I buy the Ice. Most likely from a macro miner because it's more efficient than doing it myself when I can make twice as much mining Veldspar. Thank you Macro ice miner. You save me the misery of doing it myself. |
Yodabunny
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.03 00:37:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Sisohiv
300 seconds to mine 4 Ice in a mackinaw. Thats 48 an hr. They sell for 100K outright. 4.8 mill an hr to sit there like a lump of **** waiting for someone to get bored and suicide me.
HAHA Sometimes I ice mine while I watch a movie, just have to get up every once in a while and unload at a station. It's like free isk for clicking 6 buttons every 20 minutes.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2010.08.03 01:39:00 -
[84]
Edited by: BrundleMeth on 03/08/2010 01:41:01
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
topics like this always remind me of when i was playing unreal tournament and every second match i would be yelled at for being a cheater and aimbotter and what not. people tend to very quickly accuse people of stuff and make up artifical "100% accurate" rules of what behaviour constitutes towards cheating/macroing.
the thing is when u reported someone and he still in the game a few weeks later, most propably the GM came to the conclusion that it was a false accusation.
Ah, Unreal Tournament *sniff* I miss it so much, them was the days. Did you ever shoot me with yer aimbot? I was [TT]BrundleFly for many years. (I couldn't use the name here, wouldn't let me use []...)
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Kewso
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Posted - 2010.08.03 06:47:00 -
[85]
I macro mine a lot! I use a Nostromo N52 and a Logitech G15 together.
Course I'm sitting at pc, watching movie or listening to New Eden Radio. Which makes my macromining legal :)
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.08.03 08:13:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Clicking the button to make the chat request go away seems to me too much like acknowledging the wannabe pirate's existence. Drag the window off the edge of the screen, get back to moving cargo.
I have a timer which tells me to get back inside from hanging out washing or whatever and move cargo across. I've not missed a cycle while mining or harvesting ice for quite some time. At the same time, I have housework I want to get done, and I've promised the other half that this housework will be done before we have to go out to the movies/dinner/whatever.
Now about the claim that many reported macrominers who had "left the game" are now back to their old tricks... you know they've left the game? how?
And when you get suicide ganked, warping your pod from belt to station for the next 8 hours is just your way of showing that you dont care, right?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Shocker Steg
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.08.03 09:01:00 -
[87]
If the mining community would agree to do the following:
Every hour do 3 clicks (2 if you have checked the box for not asking again)
Rightclick on wrecks
Click on Abandon all wrecks
Click Yes on the "are you sure" popup
*this will require ppl to actually shoot some rats though...
I can't see macro's putting this in at all.. this way a lot of the petions made against afk miners will be avoided as other players will have some kind of proof that there is actually someone there.
-------
Always a deeply religious people, religion remains of great importance to every Amarrian, a fervour which at various times has been responsible both for great good and great evil. |
IDieAlotInGateCamps
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Posted - 2010.08.03 10:48:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Ivas Tiffy
a HUGE sign of a macroer is... they warp to a belt at 200km then to the nearest roid and start mining then dock up and unload to repeat. soem warp to different belts etc.
Have you EVER flown a hulk? Ever WTZ to a belt and find out the nearest rock is +40km away? How in the hell does a 200km bookmark, that allows me to WTZ directly to the rocks I want to mine, make a miner a macro?
A 200km bookmark is just regular game-play from a dedicated miner that won't waste time approaching a rock.
Having a hard time figuring out how did this community go from innocent until proven guilty to assuming guilt.
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Gajoleus
Gallente
Solar Imperium
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Posted - 2010.08.03 10:58:00 -
[89]
Originally by: CCP Adida
Macromining is NOT legal. If you see anyone doing it please submit a petition.
Lol stupidity is strong in this one. This post pretty much sums why is Eve dieing.
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Richard Christy
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Posted - 2010.08.03 11:05:00 -
[90]
Originally by: DigiFusion
We pay the same subscription price the macroers do, why ban someone straight away when you can milk a bit more cash off them while you 'gather evidence' which a simple log check would reveal.
Please keep your logic out of the thread. We know this is their stance, they just don't want to say it.
Now would everyone go about your business, and ignore the macroers, too? Thanks.
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Sully Tude
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Posted - 2010.08.03 11:06:00 -
[91]
Originally by: IDieAlotInGateCamps
Originally by: Ivas Tiffy
a HUGE sign of a macroer is... they warp to a belt at 200km then to the nearest roid and start mining then dock up and unload to repeat. soem warp to different belts etc.
Have you EVER flown a hulk? Ever WTZ to a belt and find out the nearest rock is +40km away? How in the hell does a 200km bookmark, that allows me to WTZ directly to the rocks I want to mine, make a miner a macro?
A 200km bookmark is just regular game-play from a dedicated miner that won't waste time approaching a rock.
Having a hard time figuring out how did this community go from innocent until proven guilty to assuming guilt.
Macro tears best tears?
Here's an even BETTER IDEA: Set up bookmarks within 14 km of the belt, then warp to those!
Or can your little piece of software not handle that?
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IDieAlotInGateCamps
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Posted - 2010.08.03 11:14:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Sully Tude
Macro tears best tears?
Here's an even BETTER IDEA: Set up bookmarks within 14 km of the belt, then warp to those!
Or can your little piece of software not handle that?
You get 1/10 for effort but ... clueless alt is clueless!
Bookmark at 14km? How would that help a miner? he'd need 10 bookmarks per belt and would need to know in which ones the asteroids were!
For those of you oblivious to mining, a 200km bookmark is made so you can warp directly to any asteroid in a belt, so if the belt is half striped you don't have to approach the other half with a slow motion exhumer.
[FEEDING]And mate, take that head out of your ass as I'm not defending macros. I'm defending the miners! If english is not your native language, then you should refrain from posting crap after you misinterpret someone else! [/FEEDING]
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.03 11:24:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
You dont think anybody actually believes any of that do you?
Your a macro miner, and your making up a really terrible story to cover it up
And you're a terrible troll.
--
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2010.08.03 12:55:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
So given that I afk mine as well, I don't fly back to my rocks if I am not watching my screen.
You fly to the roids and "scuttle" between them and a station, dumping drones out and fighting your way through rats, you keep in range of the roids despite being bumped. You're an intelligent macro. If you start randomly yelling at people in local you're a VERY intelligent macro with a chatbot built in. You and the rest of your corpies set up a mining op, you're a botmaster and a swarm of bots.
You let your ship be bumped out of range and don't do any of the above. You're a dumb macro.
Basically to a lot of people on the forums if you're flying a mining ship... you're a macro. And frankly there will be no way to convince them that you're not.
Which kind of raises the question: If everyone thinks your a macro and everyone is reporting you as a macro... why not just go with the flow and macro?
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:11:00 -
[95]
I did observe some ppl i suppose using macroes in the systems i mine for a long time. And after reading threads "how to deal with them" (petition) and how much this helps i did following, and i tell you it works:
1) Fit frig with ship scanner, investigate supposed macro.
2) Fit cheap gank brutix (don¦t forget to insure).
3) Gank.
4) See amazing concord action on your brutix.
5) Return to belt and watch the pod "mining", returning over and over again.
THIS helps for sure.
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IDieAlotInGateCamps
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:17:00 -
[96]
Originally by: My Postman
I did observe some ppl i suppose using macroes in the systems i mine for a long time. And after reading threads "how to deal with them" (petition) and how much this helps i did following, and i tell you it works:
1) Fit frig with ship scanner, investigate supposed macro.
2) Fit cheap gank brutix (don¦t forget to insure).
3) Gank.
4) See amazing concord action on your brutix.
5) Return to belt and watch the pod "mining", returning over and over again.
THIS helps for sure.
This is indeed the only sure way to reveal a macro user, although it will come at the expense of legit miners and their ships, but all in all, it's also good for the economy! 
Every other theory = crap. Just kill every miner you see... that should solve it!
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oolk
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Posted - 2010.08.03 13:53:00 -
[97]
Did they remove the ''auto-reject chat'' option?
I wasnt aware of that...
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Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2010.08.03 14:41:00 -
[98]
Originally by: My Postman
5) Return to belt and watch the pod "mining", returning over and over again.
THIS helps for sure.
Having looked at some of the macro software to see if it really was this easy to figure out if someone is macroing or not... even the simplest commercial ones are quite aware that the ship has been destroyed (or rather the enviroment has changed and they're unable to trigger lasers/open cargo hold) and should promptly log off.
If it doesn't then it's someone using a very very basic script and not a full blown macro.
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Yodabunny
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.03 15:26:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Shocker Steg
Every hour do 3 clicks (2 if you have checked the box for not asking again)
Rightclick on wrecks
Click on Abandon all wrecks
Click Yes on the "are you sure" popup
[]
I can't see macro's putting this in at all..[]players will have some kind of proof that there is actually someone there.
If a macro can warp to a belt, select rocks, mine the rocks, switch rocks when they pop, dock, unload cargo, and do it all again (I'm sure some of them fight rats as well). WHY would this be even remotely difficult for a macro. It's maybe a few lines of code. There is nothing in game that you couldn't code into a macro. It's all button and mouse clicks.
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Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis
Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.03 16:13:00 -
[100]
you know I've been arguing in game with people since this thread and I now back off my previous hatred.
CCP made mining such that there is no thought required, no "human" reason to be there...
so frack it, mine as you wish, just don't get caught.
Apollo
TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times.
Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. |
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Iana Zypher
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Posted - 2010.08.03 16:19:00 -
[101]
I can't wait for PI Macro's.
The guy that developed that **** should be taken to the back yard and shot.
IRL I am doing some GUI design and if I would deliver this carpal syndrome piece of ****, I would be fired.
Fix it pls, CCP. Well, it will be prolly, in 18 months...
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Borun Tal
Minmatar
Armagedon Laboratoire
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Posted - 2010.08.03 16:53:00 -
[102]
"Legal"? Not according to the PR folks. However, their tacit approval is evident in their unwillingness to do anything about macro'ers. I petitioned a great example I came across (a POD warping into an ice field, waiting three or so cycles, docking, then coming back and doing the same all over again IN A POD!), and nothing happened. I believe that macro'er is still there to this day.
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Mors Hades
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Posted - 2010.08.03 17:14:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
you know I've been arguing in game with people since this thread and I now back off my previous hatred.
CCP made mining such that there is no thought required, no "human" reason to be there...
so frack it, mine as you wish, just don't get caught.
Apollo
with that mentality does not surprise me that there are macros in the game 
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Lady Ayeipsia
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Posted - 2010.08.03 17:19:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Borun Tal
"Legal"? Not according to the PR folks. However, their tacit approval is evident in their unwillingness to do anything about macro'ers. I petitioned a great example I came across (a POD warping into an ice field, waiting three or so cycles, docking, then coming back and doing the same all over again IN A POD!), and nothing happened. I believe that macro'er is still there to this day.
Um... why not just pop the pod then? Cost the macro their implants, get them back to a clone station, and see how it goes.
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Lithalnas
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.03 17:32:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Lady Ayeipsia
Originally by: Borun Tal
"Legal"? Not according to the PR folks. However, their tacit approval is evident in their unwillingness to do anything about macro'ers. I petitioned a great example I came across (a POD warping into an ice field, waiting three or so cycles, docking, then coming back and doing the same all over again IN A POD!), and nothing happened. I believe that macro'er is still there to this day.
Um... why not just pop the pod then? Cost the macro their implants, get them back to a clone station, and see how it goes.
I have done this to a maco miner and poped his hulk, funny thing was, i let the pod warp to the belt and then turn around and dock at the station every 120seconds. I then poded him to see what would happen, he then logged in and out every 5min 20seconds for a whole 2 days before a GM banned his account for macroing. It was fun watching his light switch from red to green to red over and over again.
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Dominatus Crispus
Nation of Muppets
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Posted - 2010.08.03 17:51:00 -
[106]
this thread makes me sad... why you ask?
because this is proof, that macro miners can not only mine 23/7, they also seem to be able to collect tears as easy as minerals.
its almost as if... they are griefer bots in disguise!
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2010.08.03 18:27:00 -
[107]
I dual AFK mine while at work, mainly ice with its long turn over time.
I just check it every 5-10 minutes, dock, unload, undock, rewarp, target, fire, go do something else.
I can't count the amount of times I have been called a macro miner. I check local every once in a while now and see crap all the time saying "Say "quote" or I am reporting you as as a macro miner". I never respond, there is no point. I have other things going on in my life and just need money to kill more people.
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Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis
Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.03 19:16:00 -
[108]
Mors,
did you bother reading any of my posts in this thread? or did you just cherry pick this one?
I don't know why you have SINGLED me out, but I would love to hear why.
Originally by: Mors Hades
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
you know I've been arguing in game with people since this thread and I now back off my previous hatred.
CCP made mining such that there is no thought required, no "human" reason to be there...
so frack it, mine as you wish, just don't get caught.
Apollo
with that mentality does not surprise me that there are macros in the game
TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times.
Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. |
Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.08.03 20:18:00 -
[109]
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt
topics like this always remind me of when i was playing unreal tournament and every second match i would be yelled at for being a cheater and aimbotter and what not. people tend to very quickly accuse people of stuff and make up artifical "100% accurate" rules of what behaviour constitutes towards cheating/macroing.
I used to be heavily involved in anti-cheat admin kind of stuff for an FPS several years ago. The amount of witch-hunting that would go on sometimes was insane. We had a pretty sophisticated system where any servers that used our scripts would stream logs to us, which we then parsed and stuck in a giant searchable SQL database that I'd use to check out accusations.
It's probably safe to say that the majority of the accusations made were complete BS, and most of the people who I could definitively prove were cheating were the last person anyone expected.
It was also very common for us to hold off on bans for a while for two reasons:
1) So we could catch as many people as possible before they realized we'd beaten their latest counter to our latest detection method.
2) It gave us time to make sure that we had no false positives. Even though we had thousands of legit bans, it would only have taken a few false positives and we'd loose all of our hard work, as people would stop trusting our banlists.
- - -
Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac" |
Necrosmith
Gallente
Chunder Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.03 20:46:00 -
[110]
So what would happen if you made a script that combines multiple actions/key presses so you only have to click one button?
For example, what if you made a script that unloaded your ore for you and undocked your ship, but you are running the script yourself every time you want to perform those actions?
IOW, you are at the computer the entire time, but just saving yourself some actions?
Would that be considered a bannable offense?
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Follow Necrosmith on Twitter
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.03 22:31:00 -
[111]
Keyboard macros such as you'll find on the G15 keyboard or Nostromo SpeedPad are perfectly legit, as long as they require human interaction. Why you'd bother, I don't know.
As for Mors' addition about having to scan down grav sites, this has been on the cards for a while - CCP has made noise in the past about removing all "system" belts and moving minable asteroids to pockets.
--
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Necrosmith
Gallente
Chunder Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.03 22:35:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Keyboard macros such as you'll find on the G15 keyboard or Nostromo SpeedPad are perfectly legit, as long as they require human interaction. Why you'd bother, I don't know.
Thank you.
This is exactly what I was thinking about. I have a Nostromo s52.
I just like to be efficient and have to do as few actions as possible to get stuff done.
-----------------------------------------------
Follow Necrosmith on Twitter
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BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2010.08.03 22:43:00 -
[113]
Edited by: BrundleMeth on 03/08/2010 22:43:32
Edited by: BrundleMeth on 03/08/2010 22:43:11
Originally by: Necrosmith
I just like to be efficient and have to do as few actions as possible to get stuff done.
I'm like that in real life. Mostly I just yell at my wife "bring me a_____"...
Fill in the blank with whatever...
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wr3cks
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.04 02:22:00 -
[114]
Edited by: wr3cks on 04/08/2010 02:23:05
So, I believe macroing is bad and I even genuinely believe that CCP doesn't want the subscription money of people who automate the game and make it less fun for (probably far more numerous) others. I also suspect that macroing is often linked to RMT, but that's just a hunch.
Petitioning is a waste of time. From a fellow-capsuleer point of view, mining (and, to a lesser extent, ratting) is a repetitive activity; it's pretty difficult for us to tell when someone is macro-ratting or macro-mining. Obviously, the highsec gank works if their pod keeps warping back and forth, but that's only going to accomplish so much (sounds fun, though).
CCP has the data, they could very quickly figure out who was macroing. Yes, mining is repetitive, however, people don't jettison their cargo by clicking on the exact same pixel and moving it to the exact same pixel on the jetcan at the exact same interval every time. Yes, macro coders could insert (rand)s into there, but this would also be identifiable (the randomness of player actions certainly does not follow a precisely uniform distribution -- people have habits, and those habits are distinct -- you can be uniquely identified by the way you type, for example).
Once they identify some number of macroers through this method, they could study their actions and behavior in greater detail to figure out what aspects of macroing they've missed out on, what other kinds of bots might be out there.
Then, penalize with either some asset/skill forfeiture and/or ban, as appropriate. Someone in this thread suggested that it'd be problematic to handle each ban and review each case individually, requiring a half hour per 1000s of users. Not true -- this is where statistics comes in. In Chicago, when Stephen Levitt (freakonomics guy) identified which teachers were cheating on the standardized tests, they didn't need to review each teacher individually to know who cheated. If ten of your students all answered a random block of 10 questions in the exact same way, the odds of that having occurred by random chance are trillions to one against. It is just statistically impossible that you weren't cheating (by changing a bunch of the answers to be correct). Another example of this is Nate Silver's analysis of Research 2000's faulty polling. The odds that random polling just happened to show the presidential race within 1% for so many days is, as they show, 1 in 10^16. If you're always clicking on the exact same pixel, or some sort of uniformly-distrubted rand() chosen pixel, it is not up for debate whether you are macroing; collect even a hundred click locations and times and you will be able to conclusively tell whether and how someone is macroing.
Other solutions of course include changing game mechanics (turn mining into a mini-game like PI or scanning or w/e, or requiring one scan-down of a grav site per hour to mine, as another guy said; I don't have any strong feelings on this). And, of course, CCP could make a punkbuster sort of app, but since we're still waiting on them to fix so much other stuff, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.
If CCP wants to commit the resources to all-but end this practice, I think they could. What's that Eyegoj guy up to? Does he know how to run regressions? Surely the client already collects the input, right? And I bet this would also have some positive repercussions on RMT activity...
$.02
edit to de-yellow
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.04 05:44:00 -
[115]
My preference for handling macroers is to remove the incentive to macro. People write macros because stuff can be macroed. Even missions can be macroed - limit overview to certain types of ship, sort by name/size/whatever, blow up the top ship in the overview. Fleet fights depend on this functionality.
Now stir up the pot a little, change the triggers in Worlds Collide so that it's not always a battleship that's the trigger (thus shooting frigates then cruisers then battlecruisers then battleships won't ensure you clear out each wave before triggering the next). Start introducing the Sleeper AI into current missions so that life becomes interesting for groups trying to use missions to practice their RR gangs.
Change existing asteroid belts (ore and ice) to produce really poor quality ores, add new gravimetric sites to provide ice, add the 5% and 10% versions of ores to all grav sites (quality increasing with reducing sec status), and mining will pretty much require interaction. Of course there's still the opportunity for the macroers to hunt down the site by hand, then run the macro to do the actual mining.
In the meantime, the best way to sort out the macroers from the legitimate players is to blow up their ships. If they keep warping back to the same spot in their pods, it's pretty obvious they're using a macro.
Petitions require time to investigate, and you won't get any feedback about the process apart from another notification about Unholy Rage. No feedback, and the apparent lack of action against the guy you reported because he was sitting in a belt mining for the entire time you were in the belt watching him, doesn't mean no action is being taken against macroers.
If you're unwilling to take direct action, and you're unwilling to submit a petition, you have no right to be whining here in the forums about macroers ruining your game. At the very least you could treat macroers as an interesting problem to solve.
--
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Mors Hades
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Posted - 2010.08.04 06:05:00 -
[116]
Originally by: wr3cks
Edited by: wr3cks on 04/08/2010 02:23:05
[H3]
So, I believe macroing is bad and I even genuinely believe that CCP doesn't want the subscription money of people who automate the game and make it less fun for (probably far more numerous) others. I also suspect that macroing is often linked to RMT, but that's just a hunch........
Exellent post, constructive and ilustrative. thx for the info
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Yodabunny
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.04 14:50:00 -
[117]
"statistically impossible"
No such thing. 0 = impossible, anything with a zero isn't a statistic. The word statistic insinuates possibility.
And really? You want CCP to track (and store) the exact pixel you click on your client side interface? Do you have any idea what that entails? How easy it would be to circumvent?
Re: Scanning down mining sites.
A macro could do this about 5 times faster than a person. If you can see it a program can do it. The only thing a computer can't handle is creative thought. Every decision in eve is a reaction to visual information, there is no creative thought involved.
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wr3cks
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.04 22:25:00 -
[118]
Edited by: wr3cks on 04/08/2010 22:26:12
Originally by: Yodabunny
"statistically impossible"
No such thing. 0 = impossible, anything with a zero isn't a statistic. The word statistic insinuates possibility.
This is so unintelligent that I was debating whether to reply, but I wanted to bump the topic, so I'll bite.
Given brownian motion, it's theoretically possible that all of the oxygen molecules in a room could randomly migrate to the other side of the room for half an hour while someone suffocates and dies. Good luck getting anyone to believe that as a murder alibi, though.
If the odds are one in trillions, and, say, 5000 accounts are banned, what is the expected # of accounts that are unjustly banned? .0000000000005 of an account. However, because there's no such thing as a fractional account, the correct answer is zero.
Originally by: Yodabunny
And really? You want CCP to track (and store) the exact pixel you click on your client side interface? Do you have any idea what that entails? How easy it would be to circumvent?
Really. This information is already there, the client needs it to process the click in the first place. It entails sending two extra numbers every ~3 minutes, if they're not already being sent (who knows).
And how would you go about getting your macro to produce a facsimilie of human behavior that looks just like 'real' miners when you don't have that data? That's some cutting-edge artifical intelligence capabilities that you're ascribing to people who farm ore in a videogame.
Originally by: Yodabunny
Re: Scanning down mining sites.
A macro could do this about 5 times faster than a person. If you can see it a program can do it. The only thing a computer can't handle is creative thought. Every decision in eve is a reaction to visual information, there is no creative thought involved.
Can you link me to a scanning macro like you describe? If what you say is true, surely there are several out by now. I mean, the current scanning interface has existed for, what, two years?
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Mors Hades
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Posted - 2010.08.05 05:53:00 -
[119]
Thanks to all who have written in the forum, there have been constructive comments and others not so but equally valid.
the lasts ones have been based on the technique, which pleases me greatly as this presents potential solutions to a problem which seems not to be so difficult to fix, and seems more an economic problem and a problem of willpower, than a tecnical problem, but hey i`m a noob in tech stuff.
It is not strange that no developer has written anything about it but hey we are not very important right? , only got the official answer you all saw on page one.
I hope to continue reaching more opinions, and hopefully possible solutions to this issue.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.07 10:05:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Iana Zypher
I can't wait for PI Macro's.
The guy that developed that **** should be taken to the back yard and shot.
IRL I am doing some GUI design and if I would deliver this carpal syndrome piece of ****, I would be fired.
Fix it pls, CCP. Well, it will be prolly, in 18 months...
CCP has a team working on PI, so probably something will change, but it will happen with the introduction of Dust, I think, not before.
As long as there is no active player opposition to PI farming CCP will keep the current mechanic as a way to keep down player farming (but the cost will be a lot of macro PI farmers, I fear).
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2010.08.07 13:21:00 -
[121]
Originally by: IDieAlotInGateCamps
Originally by: My Postman
[..]watch the pod "mining", returning over and over again.[..]
This is indeed the only sure way to reveal a macro user
Bump the miner out of mining laser range. If he returns from station without being annoyed at least if you start to bump him away again -- well..
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.07 16:32:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Yodabunny
"statistically impossible"
No such thing. 0 = impossible, anything with a zero isn't a statistic. The word statistic insinuates possibility.
There is only one known zero, which is in fact the net sum of the universe.
Carry on.
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Necrosmith
Gallente
Chunder Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.07 17:12:00 -
[123]
Storing clicked pixels won't work.
All a macro has to do is randomly click in an area to each click to bypass this.
There's plenty of room to click on a single asteroid in the overview, for example.
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Motseth
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Posted - 2010.08.07 17:26:00 -
[124]
I think people dont understand how things work, CCP cant punish a player for being a macro based on your worthless opinion and petition. You must have proof that the player is indeed using a macro and that is almost impossible to do.
Just because someone mines 15h in a row everyday that does not mean he is using a macro, just means he is a devoted miner and someone who need psychiatric help urgently (just joking), but its that person problem and none of us have anything to do with it. If he does not respond to your messages, your provocations that can just means he does not give a flower about u. AFAIK no one is required to answer whatever.
If u understand how complex a macro can be u would know that a macro scanner is not that hard to build so it doesnt matter whatever u do, if it does not require decisions based on different variables on multiple instances in a variable occurrence (like most pvp and some pve) it can be macroed.
Macros is something people need to learn to deal with, they are here and they are not going anywhere anytime soon.
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Tanthalassa
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Posted - 2010.08.07 17:53:00 -
[125]
I think that assumption that CCP even wants to ban the macroers is wrong in the first place.
Don't hate me for bringing wow example in the discussion, it is just to make my point clear enough:
Used to play wow plenty, and hated all the bots there. 12 million subscriptions base, while bots are running rampant.
Now compare that to this company called CCP, which has one cluster with only 40k avg (or whatever) online at a time.
Do you really want 'em ban macroers? Heck, by now I'd think that's probably huge percentage of their player base.
I hated bots in wow, i reported em in hundreds literally just to see 'em come back later. In the end what happened?
I was actually banned 2 times from it with basic excuse "we found your account hijacked, so now you are banned
for your protection" lol
So , do not go overboard with reporting, or they might start claiming you report "innocent" miners and slap you with
ban hammer in the end
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